Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Is Fallen Earth a sandbox mmo?
jramsay61
Member Posts: 20
in Fallen Earth
I've never played, but was curious what some people who have played it themselves think: do you consider FE a sandbox? or a rail ride?
Comments
It's a hybrid. It has sandboxy elements, but it also has a ton of quests. It's not one or the other, instead it's both.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
No, no, no, it's not half sandbox, half theme park, It's full time theme park. Nevertheless, I still enjoy FE for what it is.
REALITY CHECK
It is a hybrid, though leaning more toward theme-park at this time. It has the potential to go full on sandbox should the devs decide to take it that way.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I would agree with Khalathwyr that it is both. I think the game gives you plenty of freedom to either play it as a sandbox, as a quest giver gamer, or a hybrid. I see this freedom alone makes it a true sandbox, as it allows you the freedom to play whatever way you wish
out of curiosity can i ask why?
the crafting and factioned pvp aspects seem to lean towards being a "sandbox" on paper
Heh, OP, so you'll see people disagree. I consider the crafting system (which you won't see a decently developed crafting system in themeparks as they are mob drop loot driven) to be sandboxy, and the housing that will be implemented sandboxy, the fact that you can, albeit very slowly, advance your character without combat sandboxy. I also consider the game having item that require other items to work, and that are done so in a logical way (such as guns needing bullets that we have to craft, vehicles needing gas, etc.) to be more sandboxy ideas than themepark.
But, as I said, you'll only get alot of opinions in this thread. Each one is right for their particular author. You'll have to make the decision for yourself.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
out of curiosity can i ask why?
the crafting and factioned pvp aspects seem to lean towards being a "sandbox" on paper
There's a clear linear progression in everything you do. FE has arguably the same level of sandbox feeling as Vanguard.
REALITY CHECK
out of curiosity can i ask why?
the crafting and factioned pvp aspects seem to lean towards being a "sandbox" on paper
There's a clear linear progression in everything you do. FE has arguably the same level of sandbox feeling as Vanguard.
can you chop down trees in fe?!
out of curiosity can i ask why?
the crafting and factioned pvp aspects seem to lean towards being a "sandbox" on paper
There's a clear linear progression in everything you do. FE has arguably the same level of sandbox feeling as Vanguard.
can you chop down trees in fe?!
No, you can't even build and place your own house. You also can't level up your crafting without harvesting in dangerous zones full of mobs (so unless you send your crafter mats, he will not improve his crafting -- which actually is possible to cap crafting in VG just by sitting in a town taking work orders) - so in this example FE is even less sandbox than VG. And I would never dare to call Vanguard a sandbox nor a hybrid.
FE even contains food with min. level requirements. Has got 5500 missions, you can't attack everyone, everywhere, you can't attack mission NPC's, you can't interact with persisent world in any way, there's a clear progression of your journey to CAP level. Honestly, how can anyone call FE a sandbox or a hybrid?
REALITY CHECK
Games are measured by the number of sand box type features they contain. A theme park game can still contain many elements traditional to sandbox games including good crafting and still be a more quest drivien experience.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
hehe yup FE is totally a themepark wow clone ;-)
/heavy sarcasm off
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
All MMOs are sandboxes by definition. No I really don't care how some forumite wants to define it. I've seen the actual definition. If you would ask questions that had meaningful answers you would get them instead of the same ill informed nonsense you see in this thread. When you constrain your thinking to artificial, meaningless and incorrect labels you cannot have a thoughtful discussion. You might as well ask how fast are blue cars?
No. There's a huge difference between Ultima Online (true sandbox) and let's say Lotro (true theme park). I'm sorry that you can't see that. Sure, you 've got a lots of space in between where most of the games fit, but FE is surely rather closer to Lotro than uo.
edit: replaced aoc with lotro
REALITY CHECK
Even sandbox games have quests. This is obviously a hybrid with the way the skill progression is, the way the non-linearity of quest options and level options, the are much more expansive then themepark games as you have a choice to take a countless amount of different roads to reach an end.
Most skill based sand box games are in the same avenue of linearity as any theme park level progression. To truly make something non level based isn't to take away levels, but to take away any progression at all and base any actual world progression on player skill. It seems to me that when you start at 1 and you end at 60 thats considered linearity... you do that in sandbox games to, so while we're defining the two genre's lets just get one thing straight. Theme Park. Sandbox. hardly anyone can tell the difference anymore. If its fun, play it.
All MMOs are sandboxes by definition. No I really don't care how some forumite wants to define it. I've seen the actual definition. If you would ask questions that had meaningful answers you would get them instead of the same ill informed nonsense you see in this thread. When you constrain your thinking to artificial, meaningless and incorrect labels you cannot have a thoughtful discussion. You might as well ask how fast are blue cars?
ok?
such nerdly passion for an innocent question, lol
i assumed when asking the question, that the definition of "sandbox," is not subjective, but pretty straightforward.
sandbox - no predefined objective, player driven content, player driven economy/meaningful crafting, laissez-faire (EVE "scandals" serve as great examples of this)
rail-ride - defined objectives, developed content, quest scripted economy,
Nonsense.
What MMO is not a sandbox then currently on the market? Why are the missions in FE non-linear? In what game you can't either grind or quest to reach cap level? In what MMO there's not a linear clear progression (starting towns A,B,C.. -> leads to level 6-10 towns, that leads to two level 11-12 towns etc) How does Lotro or AoC or whatever differs from this? What roads can you take in FE apart from doing missions or grinding (and severly gimp yourself). Missions in FE are nonlinear? Don't they still send you from A to B then C then back? Then get a follow up mission, rinse and repeat?
How is FE less linear than Lotro, please give me at least one example.
REALITY CHECK
Nonsense.
What MMO is not a sandbox then currently on the market? Why are the missions in FE non-linear? In what game you can't either grind or quest to reach cap level? In what MMO there's not a linear clear progression (starting towns A,B,C.. -> leads to level 6-10 towns, that leads to two level 11-12 towns etc) How does Lotro or AoC or whatever differs from this? What roads can you take in FE apart from doing missions or grinding (and severly gimp yourself). Missions in FE are nonlinear? Don't they still send you from A to B then C then back? Then get a follow up mission, rinse and repeat?
How is FE less linear than Lotro, please give me at least one example.
i posed this question to begin with and even though i haven't played ... i'll bite. doesn't the promise of a player driven, crafting-based economy differentiate FE from nearly all other mmos? There is a myriad of options available that are limited by imagination on this one feature.
the absence of classes also grants a players imagination free reign over what his character will be proficient at.
i posed this question to begin with and even though i haven't played ... i'll bite. doesn't the promise of a player driven, crafting-based economy differentiate FE from nearly all other mmos? There is a myriad of options available that are limited by imagination on this one feature.
the absence of classes also grants a players imagination free reign over what his character will be proficient at.
There's no player driven crafting based economy any more than in any other game out there. Sure, it's only a month and something since the release, so the economy is a bit messy -- but there's no indication that this is going to be any more player driven.
Fact is, factions give you powerful item rewards and you grind factions by doing missions mostly. Fact is, most of the material for the crafting you can buy from the vendors. There's surely no need for pure gatherers, they can't make any sort of profit. Currently almost 99% of all material is selling on Auction for more than you can buy it from a vendor -- mostly because some people are too lazy to travel to another town to buy it from a vendor instead -- because atm there is TOO MUCH money made from doing missions. After level 35, you will never bother about money.
Absence of classes sure is a little step towards non-linearity and more choice. However, it does promote min-maxing and making a build to get the cap faction ability. On one hand yes, it's classless, on the other hand -> the options and the way you gain cap abilities promote to min-max and follow default builds.
REALITY CHECK
Nonsense.
What MMO is not a sandbox then currently on the market? Why are the missions in FE non-linear? In what game you can't either grind or quest to reach cap level? In what MMO there's not a linear clear progression (starting towns A,B,C.. -> leads to level 6-10 towns, that leads to two level 11-12 towns etc) How does Lotro or AoC or whatever differs from this? What roads can you take in FE apart from doing missions or grinding (and severly gimp yourself). Missions in FE are nonlinear? Don't they still send you from A to B then C then back? Then get a follow up mission, rinse and repeat?
How is FE less linear than Lotro, please give me at least one example.
How is UO or Darkfall much different then any other theme park progression, when I start from 1 in a skill and end up at 100. How was the SWG economy so much more sandboxy then FE when 90% of the items in game can be crafted and traded? In FE I have however many choices I choose to use to level. Its not about the leveling, I can level my pistol skill by harvesting. I can level my Melee skill by crafting. I can create a complete character through any avenue of gameplay, not just missions, not just killing mobs, not just crafting, not just harvesting, and not just PvP, but in any way I choose. I have no set class, I have no set skills, and linearity is as set in this game as pretty much any other game out there.
If FE is to be defined by either of these two definitions
"sandbox - no predefined objective, player driven content, player driven economy/meaningful crafting, laissez-faire (EVE "scandals" serve as great examples of this)
rail-ride - defined objectives, developed content, quest scripted economy,"
Then it falls in both categorties. If that isn't a hybrid then what is?
for those who have been playing, what is the attitude over at icarus studios in regards to end game? do you have a feeling it will be left for the community to define, or do you foresee 25 man raids attacking radiation colossals?
edit: also, is "gameplay" generally defined? ie...log on, go to crossroads, find mankriks wife, gain xp, go to camp t etc, etc.
You just contradicted yourself.
In your previous post you said FE offers more paths towards an end "...themepark games as you have a choice to take a countless amount of different roads to reach an end" -- which contradicts with your sandbox definition that there's a predefined objective.
There is no player driven content in FE. That's what I was talking about when I said the world is not interactive enough to call it a sandbox.
It is not player driven economy. In player driven economy there are no vendors that sell you all the material you need to create something. Player driven economy means you need to interact with other crafters and gatherers in order to create something. Player driven economy means you get most of the items only when you trade with other players. In FE, faction rewards are comparably strong to crafted items, and crafted items are made of material sold by vendors.
REALITY CHECK
There will be no end-game content as you know it. Icarus plans to expand the level cap to 150 as they repeatedly claimed. Which would cover 10 sectors (currently there are 3 sectors, 45 level cap).
Which would be a very good thing - if they didnt implement the levels. There is no reason really to have skills capped because of your level. The system is not as free as it might seem. Cap for your skills is defined by your level and with all the possible APs, you can max out 4-5 attributes and 4-5 skills (out of 8 attributes and 9 skills).
REALITY CHECK
You just contradicted yourself.
In your previous post you said FE offers more paths towards an end "...themepark games as you have a choice to take a countless amount of different roads to reach an end" -- which contradicts with your sandbox definition that there's a predefined objective.
There is no player driven content in FE. That's what I was talking about when I said the world is not interactive enough to call it a sandbox.
It is not player driven economy. In player driven economy there are no vendors that sell you all the material you need to create something. Player driven economy means you need to interact with other crafters and gatherers in order to create something. Player driven economy means you get most of the items only when you trade with other players. In FE, faction rewards are comparably strong to crafted items, and crafted items are made of material sold by vendors.
Its true, in the basic form you can buy most base items from merchants. That doesn't mean much though, nor does it mean the economy isn't player driven. Just because you have the materials doesn't mean you can craft anything. Not all materials can be bought through merchants, and not all recipes can be learned through merchants. Some recipes can only be learned through merchants. Some recipes can be traded between players. Some can't. So if you can get some mats through vendors but some not through them, then no its not a full sandbox, but it doesn't automatically make it a full themepark, does it? I don't know why your so insistent on labeling it one or the other when its obvious that its both.
"The world is not interactive enough" how do you figure? I've been part of 2 player driven events already, and sandbox games aren't entirely decided by how many players decide to get their shit together and create things to do. Its not that it isn't possible. In that same avenue you could say that CoX has a mission creator and therefore since it gives you actual tools to build player content then its obviously a sandbox.
Also, I didn't give you a strict definition of sandbox, the one quoted there was from a previous post. How exactly are YOU defining sandbox?
You just contradicted yourself.
In your previous post you said FE offers more paths towards an end "...themepark games as you have a choice to take a countless amount of different roads to reach an end" -- which contradicts with your sandbox definition that there's a predefined objective.
There is no player driven content in FE. That's what I was talking about when I said the world is not interactive enough to call it a sandbox.
It is not player driven economy. In player driven economy there are no vendors that sell you all the material you need to create something. Player driven economy means you need to interact with other crafters and gatherers in order to create something. Player driven economy means you get most of the items only when you trade with other players. In FE, faction rewards are comparably strong to crafted items, and crafted items are made of material sold by vendors.
Its true, in the basic form you can buy most base items from merchants. That doesn't mean much though, nor does it mean the economy isn't player driven. Just because you have the materials doesn't mean you can craft anything. Not all materials can be bought through merchants, and not all recipes can be learned through merchants. Some recipes can only be learned through merchants. Some recipes can be traded between players. Some can't. So if you can get some mats through vendors but some not through them, then no its not a full sandbox, but it doesn't automatically make it a full themepark, does it? I don't know why your so insistent on labeling it one or the other when its obvious that its both.
"The world is not interactive enough" how do you figure? I've been part of 2 player driven events already, and sandbox games aren't entirely decided by how many players decide to get their shit together and create things to do. Its not that it isn't possible. In that same avenue you could say that CoX has a mission creator and therefore since it gives you actual tools to build player content then its obviously a sandbox.
Also, I didn't give you a strict definition of sandbox, the one quoted there was from a previous post. How exactly are YOU defining sandbox?
Player driven event is not a player driven content. You also used to have player driven events in WoW (fights between Tarren Mill and Southshore) yet it wasn't player driven content.
Player driven content and interaction is when you can ride up to any sort of town, burn down the buildings, and build your own. You can partially do that in FE - in like 5% of the gameplay area. In 95% of the gameplay area, you can't attack other players, nor mission NPCs, nor do anything to structures, your interaction with game world is -- none --.
I see you admit that you buy 99% of the material you need to craft from vendors. And that factions give you comparably strong rewards to crafted items. Best crafting schematics are obtained from faction rewards as well - there is absolutely no interaction needed between players in order to craft the best gear, or mediocre gear, or bad gear.
You can craft everything by yourself. It's only limited by time - still can do an alt to do that right? It's not more player driven than crafting in Lotro where you need a leather from a tailor even as you are a blacksmith - you either use an AH or make an alt. Same here. In fact, you're even less dependant in FE - in lotro you could have only one crafting set, in FE you can improve all your crafts, and it's no problem to put all tradeskills to 120-130 skill (takes a month or two), which is easily enough to support any sort of specialization.
REALITY CHECK
Going by the widely-accepted definition, I'd say it's not - at least not yet.
The good thing is, I find myself not caring...
Fallen Earth has reminded me that features don't make games just as plots don't make movies.
You just contradicted yourself.
In your previous post you said FE offers more paths towards an end "...themepark games as you have a choice to take a countless amount of different roads to reach an end" -- which contradicts with your sandbox definition that there's a predefined objective.
There is no player driven content in FE. That's what I was talking about when I said the world is not interactive enough to call it a sandbox.
It is not player driven economy. In player driven economy there are no vendors that sell you all the material you need to create something. Player driven economy means you need to interact with other crafters and gatherers in order to create something. Player driven economy means you get most of the items only when you trade with other players. In FE, faction rewards are comparably strong to crafted items, and crafted items are made of material sold by vendors.
Its true, in the basic form you can buy most base items from merchants. That doesn't mean much though, nor does it mean the economy isn't player driven. Just because you have the materials doesn't mean you can craft anything. Not all materials can be bought through merchants, and not all recipes can be learned through merchants. Some recipes can only be learned through merchants. Some recipes can be traded between players. Some can't. So if you can get some mats through vendors but some not through them, then no its not a full sandbox, but it doesn't automatically make it a full themepark, does it? I don't know why your so insistent on labeling it one or the other when its obvious that its both.
"The world is not interactive enough" how do you figure? I've been part of 2 player driven events already, and sandbox games aren't entirely decided by how many players decide to get their shit together and create things to do. Its not that it isn't possible. In that same avenue you could say that CoX has a mission creator and therefore since it gives you actual tools to build player content then its obviously a sandbox.
Also, I didn't give you a strict definition of sandbox, the one quoted there was from a previous post. How exactly are YOU defining sandbox?
Player driven event is not a player driven content. You also used to have player driven events in WoW (fights between Tarren Mill and Southshore) yet it wasn't player driven content.
Player driven content and interaction is when you can ride up to any sort of town, burn down the buildings, and build your own. You can partially do that in FE - in like 5% of the gameplay area. In 95% of the gameplay area, you can't attack other players, nor mission NPCs, nor do anything to structures, your interaction with game world is -- none --.
I see you admit that you buy 99% of the material you need to craft from vendors. And that factions give you comparably strong rewards to crafted items. Best crafting schematics are obtained from faction rewards as well - there is absolutely no interaction needed between players in order to craft the best gear, or mediocre gear, or bad gear.
You can craft everything by yourself. It's only limited by time - still can do an alt to do that right? It's not more player driven than crafting in Lotro where you need a leather from a tailor even as you are a blacksmith - you either use an AH or make an alt. Same here. In fact, you're even less dependant in FE - in lotro you could have only one crafting set, in FE you can improve all your crafts, and it's no problem to put all tradeskills to 120-130 skill (takes a month or two), which is easily enough to support any sort of specialization.
In the same avenue you're admitting that you do have player driven content and interactions. I never said 99% of items can be bought by merchants but most all items can be bought via the auction house. Not all items can be bought at all. You do not have to collaborate with anyone to be a particularly good crafter. You didn't need to in Vanguard either. The only difference here is that you get a wide range of skill sets rather then a single one. That doesn't mean that just because you are able to craft that you don't need to skill your tradeskills up. In fact, building up tradeskills and scavenge skills are as skill based as any Sandbox game, you work the skill, you level it up.
As for housing and tiers and building and fighting with more user generated content, housing has been said to be implemented, as well as a new tradeskill. Creating content or building content to have it raided, or player driven doesn't --again -- mean its a sandbox or town sieges in WAR or raids in CoX would make them both sandbox games. Saying that these few items defines what a sandbox game is, is shortsighted. Basing the status of the economy off of 3 weeks of game play is a little harsh as well. You have the tools in this game to create a very good economy, and it will either fly or it won't. By making the crafting real-time based, it gives a tremendous amount of options of collaboration between crafters to become successful, but doesn't make it necessary.