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I fail to see the point of MMO soloing
Goronian
Member Posts: 724
DISCLAIMER: During the course of the discussion, I've changed my mind, and agreed with a lot of arguments. I have no problem with soloers now, only with games and lackluster communities. Can we move on now? Please?
I seriously do. Look, this is not a flame thread. This is something, of a big question to the people, who play solo.
Why? What draws you in?
See... Let's be honest here. MMORPG's, as games in themselves... Kinda suck. They're repetetive, drawn-out, barely offer a coherent story and their fighting system is a droll. I can get a bazillion times more enjoyment from about any solid C/JRPG, released in the last 15 years. The point is... They are, in their core, better. Cheaper, even, especially in the long run. The time it takes to solo a char to the cap in a modern MMO is about the same, as the time it would take you to beat, say, Baldur's Gate. But with Baldur's Gate you're at least rewarded with a cutscene and some closure to the story.
I understand the necessity of solo. Yes, it's unavoidable, since most people don't want to group with strangers. But why do people... Like it?
P.S. Let's try to keep things civil, people. We can have an interesting discussion, if we try to keep our bile from spilling.
EDIT: I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?"
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Comments
Because they enjoy it.
To answer you next question as to why they enjoy:
Why do some people like pizza and others cheeseburgers?
You can't really answer that question with anything other then they just DO.
Good thing developers want everyone's money so they need to try and make games that appeal to as many people as they can.
If you dont like to solo, then you dont need to see the point. ill just say this: its a personal choice. you like certain things, other people like different things. does this sound too hard to compute?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
To put it simply people like and enjoy playing solo because they don't have to rely on others to get the job done. One of the most dreaded things in MMO's is the pug. They more or less end with someone pissed off halfway through a quest or whatever then break apart. When you solo its all you. You can make sure it gets done with a much higher chance then if you are relying on others to do it.
Everyone likes to do their own thing while playing a game, that is kind of the point of playing games is to have fun.
I do think it is kind of odd if someone plays mmorpgs and solos ALL of the time though.
Mr. Bagguns
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I disagree.
One of the things I like most about mmos is the PUG. Most of the time I always have fun in them, even if they do fail. Unless you get someone in there that is a complete tard, then they do suck.
Mr. Bagguns
But that's my point - solo play can get pretty boring. Traditional non-MMO games offer much, MUCH better solo experience throughout their duration!
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
There we go again...
I forgot, that "civil" and "MMORPG.com" don't mesh.
Let me draw you an analogy. You get a choice of two burgers, absolutely identical, but the first one can only be eaten in a small group, and the other costs more, doesn't have the meat inside and you get to eat it in a room full of other people, eating the same burger. That's what solo looks like to me. I would really like to know where I am wrong.
what exactly wasnt civil about my reply? also thats a great analogy. and by great, I mean horrible. you dont start a thread like this because you're "curious" about the reasons people like to solo. a post like this is flame-bait. and it works. this subject has been debated to a pulp, and if you honestly dont know why people like to solo, then i suggest you use the search button.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I fail to see why people need to dictate how I should enjoy a video game.
Mind your business!
I like to see the world. This is something I enjoy. When I first stood on a hill overlooking RubiKa in anarcy online and enjoyed a sunrise (and then got slaughtered from the high level mobs I had to run through) I was doing what I enjoy. When I rode my donkey up the giant sword in Alganon because the engine allowed me to (and subsequently was killed by the high level mobs I had to run through) I was doing what I enjoy.
Groups don't adventure together. I don't know why not, because it's the **only** reason I want to play: to go on team adventures across the whole world, one step at a time. Currently I have to adventure to the next level, stay in a region for ages, then adventure to the next level. Very boring, and teams don't stick around together.
I fail to see the point of partys if they don't stick together.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
Frostbite had some good points, self-reliance and avoiding unreliable players (basically the same thing) but one could say that self reliance and not needing to rely on others could be fulfilled in a solo RPG that isn't online.
While I myself am not a solo-player, I have a close friend who is. I've actually had this discussion with him rather recently. The point we come down to is that a MMOG's "world" extends beyond just the grouping and questing. There is interaction with people in the towns, supporting newer players, chatting with friends while you go about your business, and other social involvement.
His big attraction is game economies, he's a business geek, he loves essentially farming for materials and pushing the extremes of the market. Learning how a particular game's market flows is fun for him, and that is what he likes about MMOGs. That is what he enjoys, and something which this genre provides better than a solo game can... since the solo game would be static as he is the only factor in any market a solo game provides. It is far more interesting, for him, to compete against others for resources, to fuck with the economy to make a better profit for himself.
That's one reason people who solo "content" may play an MMOG.
Hmmmm. So you can still gain XP when looking for a party ?? Or would you rather HAVE to group and get the worst pug in all of MMO and lose more XP then you gain ??? Or you have 10 hours a day to play and have no school and no work ??? Or like 50% +++ that have school / work / Gosh forbid a family and only have 1-2 hours to play and would like to get items/loot/xp and not have to worry about QQ pug's . ???? Take your pick ! Soloing is part of every MMO for alot of the reasons i have listed.
Played Aoc/DDO/FFXI/WAR / LoTRo / CO / Aion
Playing Rift
Waiting for FFXIV to be the game it should. so sad =(
I like soloing because I don't have to wait for other people to turn up to group with.
I like soloing because I don't have to wait while other people go /afk.
I like soloing because I can go /afk whenever I want without negatively affecting others.
I like soloing because it is more interactive than performing a group role.
My guild channel does not require me to be in a group.
My ventrilo channel does not require me to be in a group.
For a gamer with limited playing time, soloing is the most accessible content. Thanks to the communication tools available I can solo without losing the social interaction which marks the primary difference between an MMO and a single player game.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
People who like to solo usually do so because they may not have the time to invest in finding a group or sticking with a group. Like if the player only has say about an hour to play at that given time. For them its less of a hassel to solo than it is to bother grouping.
Also, sometimes they maybe just dont want to deal with others at that given time, but do want to accomplish some small task in the game.
And just because someone is soloing doesnt mean they are playing alone. Some people might be fighting alone, but also talking in guild chat or via tells to friends.
Its all personal preference really. Its kinda like asking whats the point of MMO gear grinding? Your just really grinding gear that you will be most likely replacing a few days later. Or whats the point of MMO raiding? Sure the first time you clear a dungeon its awesome, but then you have to do it a bajillion more times because thats pretty much all there is to do.
I myself enjoy soloing in MMOs, because grouping can become tedious with waiting for people to come back from afk or a run to town, etc. And then you have the really anti social people who never talk in group, save for the random 'lol' or 'pull'.
Also with current MMOs the content goes by way too fast, specially while grouping. Some people like to take thier time and make a game last because the race to endgame really isnt a reason to play for them.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Perhaps it's something beyond your ability to understand. This isn't a slam on you, but not everybody can be rocket scientists.
I disagree.
One of the things I like most about mmos is the PUG. Most of the time I always have fun in them, even if they do fail. Unless you get someone in there that is a complete tard, then they do suck.
PUGs are totally unpredictable things.
I've been in PUGs that formed the basis for a guild. I've been in PUGs that have given me friends for the duration of my time in the game. And beyond.
I've been in PUGs that were nightmares, that broke up half way through a dungeon because someone got pissed at someone else, or someone had to go.
PUGs are a roll of the dice.
Having said that, I prefer to do most things solo, not PUG. I'll be happy to quest with someone I already know, for several reasons; it means I can anticipate their play and they can anticipate mine, and that we'll have an equitable division of the spoils. This is important to me if you're doing a dungeon where you actually care about getting some of the loot. Idiot mages who insist on rolling "need" for leather gear drive me nuts, for example. But I've been in PUGs where someone will jump on ME for not rolling need for my warlock and have insisted (prior to the 2 hour BOP rule change in WoW) on submitting a CS ticket to give me BOP gear that would be very helpful.
So, PUGs are something of a gamble.
Goes with the territory.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Let me reshape your question.
I fail to see the point of MMO not allowing the option of soloing, while encouranging group play.
Solo is an option, and more options are always welcome. Group play should not be the only way to progress in the leveling process, but rather there should be incentives to promote it.
1 + 1 = 2... Unless it CRITS!
My friend plays MMOs because they have more content. Albeit shittier content but more nevertheless.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I actually only enjoy soloing when I can not find a group. However, the groups in mmo's need to be rewarded more often than solo play because you live in a world with players. Soloing should be included because a strict grouping game can draw people away. I really believe a model like EQ is the way to go were grouping is mostly necessary; however soloing needs to be there as well but not enough to draw out and take away grouping. That's the way I see it. I really believe you need to have both...again reward grouping because it is an M (Massively) M (MULTIPLAYER) O (Online) RPG! Some people just can not comprehend it.
This is a terrible analogy. One, if they are "absolutely identical" then one doesn't lack meat. That's one place where you're wrong. A solo player isn't "missing" anything except maybe the annoyance that the typical anonymous online player personifies. Most online players are not teens clinging to other teens acting in an equally stupid manner, we just see those teens most often because they are loud and attention whoring. As the most noticable group, they appear to be the majority.
A better analogy is that you have 2 burgers, absolutely identical. One you can eat how you'd like, by yourself or with friends, in a noisy place or in a quiet place - however you choose and at your own pace. The other you can only eat in a group of idiot strangers who mispronounce everything they say, tell you which condiments you should use and how much of each, how fast you should eat, acting like total jerkwads, and obsessing over monogendered sexual practices.
1) People only usually bring up "discussions" like this because they don't agree with one side of the argument or the other and want to illicit responses, usually strong and negative responses. Candy coat it all that you like, but most people are going to see it as trolling, and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
2) You don't have to understand, agree with, or even like someone else's opinions or preferences, you just have to respect them.
3) Soloing is a perfectly valid playstyle in MMOGs.
If you're issue is, like many others, that designing MMOGs to cater to people that enjoy soloing ruins the game for people who enjoy grouping, then you are wrong. What ruins a game's design are the choices the designers make. If they can't design a game that caters to both group players and solo players without compromising the gameplay of either to the point where either or both are "broken", then that is their fault. They should either pick one or the other or go back to the drawing board. To be honest though I can't really point to any cases where this is truly an issue. I know a lot of people would *like* to point the finger at soloing as the devil that destroys their favorite MMOG, but the fact is that it's not as big a deal as they would have people believe.
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
See, this is what I was talking about. This, I can actually get behind - treating MMOs like world, instead of games, where a variety of activities are encouraged. I don't think I would mind solo as much, if more people had this kind of a mindset.
My only problem is, that we don't see a lot of games like that these days. Most people I played with (on RP servers, mind you) told me to "lvl faster", so we could "raid together (insert random smiley here)".
Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?
I'm studying to be a linguist. Yeah, I'm pretty solid, that I won't ever be a rocket scientist.
Irony #1: It's easier to level solo in modern MMOs.
Irony #2: There are single player games, for people with limited free time.
Again, yes, solo play should be there, for the people, who enjoy it and while you're waitig for a group. But I'm asking for why they enjoy, not arguing for it being/not being there.
I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?" That's what really boggles me.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
This is a terrible analogy. One, if they are "absolutely identical" then one doesn't lack meat. That's one place where you're wrong. A solo player isn't "missing" anything except maybe the annoyance that the typical anonymous online player personifies. Most online players are not teens clinging to other teens acting in an equally stupid manner, we just see those teens most often because they are loud and attention whoring. As the most noticable group, they appear to be the majority.
A better analogy is that you have 2 burgers, absolutely identical. One you can eat how you'd like, by yourself or with friends, in a noisy place or in a quiet place - however you choose and at your own pace. The other you can only eat in a group of idiot strangers who mispronounce everything they say, tell you which condiments you should use and how much of each, how fast you should eat, acting like total jerkwads, and obsessing over monogendered sexual practices.
Sorry, you misunderstood me. I was not comparing group MMO VS solo MMO, but rather single-player RPG VS solo MMO.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
See, this is what I was talking about. This, I can actually get behind - treating MMOs like world, instead of games, where a variety of activities are encouraged. I don't think I would mind solo as much, if more people had this kind of a mindset.
My only problem is, that we don't see a lot of games like that these days. Most people I played with (on RP servers, mind you) told me to "lvl faster", so we could "raid together (insert random smiley here)".
Iv, do you play single-player games? Aside from guild and ventrilo, they offer all the things you've listede in spades. There must be a reason, you chose an MMO then?
I'm studying to be a linguist. Yeah, I'm pretty solid, that I won't ever be a rocket scientist.
Irony #1: It's easier to level solo in modern MMOs.
Irony #2: There are single player games, for people with limited free time.
Again, yes, solo play should be there, for the people, who enjoy it and while you're waitig for a group. But I'm asking for why they enjoy, not arguing for it being/not being there.
I guess it needs a litle rephrasing at this point.
"Why do people, who prefer to play solo choose MMOs in the first place? What drives them in?" That's what really boggles me.
i have to admit, you have a really polite way of saying to soloers "piss off my mmo and go play a single player game". I havent seen anything from you except "single player games are better for you". guess what, people will solo in "your" mmo and theres nothing you can do about it.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
See, again, not exactly the case. I don't debate the necessity of soloing in MMORPGs, I can ge behind it. PUGs can be a reall mess and looking for a normal one takes time. Not only that, but sometimes, you just want to cut all ties with people, just for once.
What I do not understand, are people, who actively like soloing MMOs, as opposed to playing single-player RPG, to get much the same experience, only of a much higher quality, oftentimes for less money. And again, I do not say "g0 out f r gamezz, n00bz!", hell no. I just want to understand what do they enjoy in MMOs, since I can't seem to "get" into one. I want to know if I had the wrong mindset, not them.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
