I'm only playing the game because I like the concept, and think the world is at least moderately interesting. But I don't personall think *anyone* cares about my views on the world and the game concept.
Skill is something I feel l as if I can write about as objectively as possible.
Try text based MMOs or rogue-likes or paper & pens,its all about your imagination graphix card.
This is only true if the images are not actually in front of you during the duration of of your playing time.
Regardless of how people think graphics dont matter when your entire playing time is spent in front of the graphics they DO matter.
I can not play WoW without using conscious energy trying to not vomit.
I want to clarify, when I say graphics I mean art direction, not technical
lets take Age Of Conan to this too
it looks realistic ,world is nice and water is exellent and sky is beautiful,so good that you can allmost believe of being there,now your imagination and brains does a trick.
Wheres birds from trees and fishes from lakes and real happenings from real world?more it looks real then even more it feels dead.theres missing so much stuff that i cant even imagine and i dont even want to.I call it to "Star Trek TOS effect" theres happening so much stuff that doenst follow any logic in the universe,but they just happen because theres no rules in Star Trek.But in realistic world there is.
comparing WoW and Darkfall graphics is not that simple ,thats all.
ah that PvP ,WoW wins ,because those graphics hurts your eyes but feeds your brains so it cant be easy to play ,so it must need skill 1-1
it looks realistic ,world is nice and water is exellent and sky is beautiful,so good that you can allmost believe of being there,now your imagination and brains does a trick. Wheres birds from trees and fishes from lakes and real happenings from real world?more it looks real then even more it feels dead.theres missing so much stuff that i cant even imagine and i dont even want to.I call it to "Star Trek TOS effect" theres happening so much stuff that doenst follow any logic in the universe,but they just happen because theres no rules in Star Trek.But in realistic world there is. comparing WoW and Darkfall graphics is not that simple ,thats all. ah that PvP ,WoW wins ,because those graphics hurts your eyes but feeds your brains so it cant be easy to play ,so it must need skill 1-1
1. Game play and mechanics are more important than graphics I wouldnt suggest that they are not. That said I AM saying graphics ARE important but not MORE important than game mechanics.
2. For me art direction of the graphics are extreemly important in my decision. Not the only factor but very important and I just cant look at WoW without laughing long enough to tollerate. sorry not going to change
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
WoW just takes another kind of skill. While in DF eye/hand coordination is required, in WoW its more about knowing the game mechanics and applying this knowledge to pressing the buttons at the right time to succeed. While in df you need to aim, in WoW you need to know when to blow your cooldowns. Df demands coordination in movement in group combat as there exists friendly fire and group members can easily kill each other if they don't watch where they hit/shoot. In WoW you need to coordinate your use of cc and coldowns. If you use your cc on the same target you are more likely to loose, same if noone does it cause everyone expects the other one to do the job. Also countering enemy skills with your own skills is important. If you lack knowledge or can't apply it you loose. An example for this would be to know what spells you can let trough and what spells you should interrupt since your interrupt is only aviable every x seconds.
Sounds like the same agrument of EVE vs DF combat comparison. There really isn't much to compare, since their " difficulty " are in different aspects. I can already see this topic being locked when the OP comes back with their conclusion.
Thing is DF as players start to get more buffs and enchanted items are a bit more commonly created I am starting to very much notice other combat dynamics other than just geography and twitch skills.
I have a few enchanted items that most work better against some mobs than other mobs as an example. Also I still have a lot of stats that are basically zero on my character sheet. Not to mention many weapons have lots of stats that we dont fully understand yet.
What I am saying is that in the coming 12 months I think things are going to get very intresting with comming patches.
Also as a side note, they did mention that coming up there will be a "massive graphic update" I seriously doubt that massive update was the animantions and spells
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I have nothing against WoW, but i just find the DF experience to be better in every single facet. No idea which takes more skill, nor do i care. I will say, i find DF more difficult in terms of being aware of your environment and ready to react to whatever random happens.
Hehe it's always fun to see when people make arguments about things they don't have the slightest idea about. I played alot WoW and DF and can admit I sucked in both. I mean I didn't just suck but did suck on a higher level. As long as it goes to 2000+ rating arena or fighting vs DF elite pvpers you need to have something special in you, some skills and abilities I don't have. I bet most of people here don't have. But I don't understand why do they argue of things they don't understand?
Hehe it's always fun to see when people make arguments about things they don't have the slightest idea about. I played alot WoW and DF and can admit I sucked in both. I mean I didn't just suck but did suck on a higher level. As long as it goes to 2000+ rating arena or fighting vs DF elite pvpers you need to have something special in you, some skills and abilities I don't have. I bet most of people here don't have. But I don't understand why do they argue of things they don't understand?
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
Hehe it's always fun to see when people make arguments about things they don't have the slightest idea about. I played alot WoW and DF and can admit I sucked in both. I mean I didn't just suck but did suck on a higher level. As long as it goes to 2000+ rating arena or fighting vs DF elite pvpers you need to have something special in you, some skills and abilities I don't have. I bet most of people here don't have. But I don't understand why do they argue of things they don't understand?
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
DF is more skilled then wow because in DF, you are forced to be skilled to survive or to achieve something while in wow, you just need strategy. YOu can write your plan on paper like coach of football do for their teams. I mean, in wow, you test your skill in arena and BG. ITs always the same map. So basically, the reason why DF take far more skill then wow is simply because wow already got more strategy then skill on his part. In wow, its more like. While in wow, you can check out a spoiler website to see how you can be the best by rebuilding your talent tree, what skill to use often vs each class, who are the best teamates and all, what to do on each BG or arena map, in DF, even if there was spoiler website to teach you how to be the best, it would never be enough since you still have to aim, get use to where ever you go since the world is huge, watching out for pkers around the world that might jump at you, trying to not hit your own teamates too in a team fight, basically, in DF skill, the possibilities are infinite while in wow, they are very limited so at the end, all the pro's of wow play the same way while in DF, you can see a great originality of play style between each players.
Hehe it's always fun to see when people make arguments about things they don't have the slightest idea about. I played alot WoW and DF and can admit I sucked in both. I mean I didn't just suck but did suck on a higher level. As long as it goes to 2000+ rating arena or fighting vs DF elite pvpers you need to have something special in you, some skills and abilities I don't have. I bet most of people here don't have. But I don't understand why do they argue of things they don't understand?
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
DF is more skilled then wow because in DF, you are forced to be skilled to survive or to achieve something while in wow, you just need strategy. YOu can write your plan on paper like coach of football do for their teams. I mean, in wow, you test your skill in arena and BG. ITs always the same map. So basically, the reason why DF take far more skill then wow is simply because wow already got more strategy then skill on his part. In wow, its more like. While in wow, you can check out a spoiler website to see how you can be the best by rebuilding your talent tree, what skill to use often vs each class, who are the best teamates and all, what to do on each BG or arena map, in DF, even if there was spoiler website to teach you how to be the best, it would never be enough since you still have to aim, get use to where ever you go since the world is huge, watching out for pkers around the world that might jump at you, trying to not hit your own teamates too in a team fight, basically, in DF skill, the possibilities are infinite while in wow, they are very limited so at the end, all the pro's of wow play the same way while in DF, you can see a great originality of play style between each players.
But it's not that easy, you see.
Of course you can get your average Joe spec a FOTM setup, get proper gear, enchants and gems and teach him how to play, give him a mic and put him on a Ventrilo server. He'll probably still fail.
Most of the time, he can't simply push the ability fast enough.
When I ask for a Counterspell to finish off the damn player, he'll do it 2 secons later and thanks to that...it's pretty much futile.
When I ask him to switch target fast, DPS a target then switch back and DPS the first target...again, he'll probably not do it fast enough and even worse, he'll screw up my CC and break everything.
It's actually a lot more random than you might think it is. I'll sometimes call for DPS and get what...him still spam healing me...these things can matter.
On the other side, he might try to DPS all the time and blow all his mana, then when I need healing he'll stare at me and do nothing.
If he can't do these simple things, how can I demand him finesse things such as SW:Ding Polys, which requires 0.1 second reactions and awareness.
Trust me, it's a lot more than simply visiting a site, because things can go random many times.
Originally posted by Thenarius Trust me, it's a lot more than simply visiting a site, because things can go random many times.
Any time you're playing against other PC toons in any MMO things become random.
It's been mentioned earlier that both WoW and DF PvP take skill, just different kinds of skill. Both take a certain amount of strategy. Both require you to have good reflexes and timing. Both require you to be able to follow orders. Where DF is different from WoW is that you also need to have more mouse control and distance/velocity judgement.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Trust me, it's a lot more than simply visiting a site, because things can go random many times.
Any time you're playing against other PC toons in any MMO things become random.
It's been mentioned earlier that both WoW and DF PvP take skill, just different kinds of skill. Both take a certain amount of strategy. Both require you to have good reflexes and timing. Both require you to be able to follow orders. Where DF is different from WoW is that you also need to have more mouse control and distance/velocity judgement.
If you call running around like a chicken with your head cut-off swingly wildy, skill, then sure.
Darkfall PvP is laughable, and to say that a newb can fight a 6 month veteran and have a chance is definetly not true.
Your character skills matter in this game just as much as your character level in another game, don't let anyone fool you.
and you WILL grind, A LOT. Maybe even more than an asian mmorpg.
But if you can sprint randomly, and swing wildly than this is the pvp for you! oh and full loot of course!
I play this game currently, but I am sorry, the pvp melee combat is a total joke. It is nothing like real combat would be, but that is why it is a game. Don't expect to "engage" someone. Expect to spend 5 minutes running around each other in circles, swinging wildly.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Originally posted by Dragim If you call running around like a chicken with your head cut-off swingly wildy, skill, then sure. Darkfall PvP is laughable, and to say that a newb can fight a 6 month veteran and have a chance is definetly not true. Your character skills matter in this game just as much as your character level in another game, don't let anyone fool you. and you WILL grind, A LOT. Maybe even more than an asian mmorpg. But if you can sprint randomly, and swing wildly than this is the pvp for you! oh and full loot of course! I play this game currently, but I am sorry, the pvp melee combat is a total joke. It is nothing like real combat would be, but that is why it is a game. Don't expect to "engage" someone. Expect to spend 5 minutes running around each other in circles, swinging wildly.
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack.
Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
If you call running around like a chicken with your head cut-off swingly wildy, skill, then sure.
Darkfall PvP is laughable, and to say that a newb can fight a 6 month veteran and have a chance is definetly not true.
Your character skills matter in this game just as much as your character level in another game, don't let anyone fool you.
and you WILL grind, A LOT. Maybe even more than an asian mmorpg.
But if you can sprint randomly, and swing wildly than this is the pvp for you! oh and full loot of course!
I play this game currently, but I am sorry, the pvp melee combat is a total joke. It is nothing like real combat would be, but that is why it is a game. Don't expect to "engage" someone. Expect to spend 5 minutes running around each other in circles, swinging wildly.
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack.
Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
That is a good point. But I just find it frustrating hehe. Mousecontrol is definetly better for a more skilled PvPer, but I don't know, somethin just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I have NO idea how I would make it better, I don't know of any way to get players to stay "engaged" with one another, especially when everyone is a "hybrid", meaning they are melee AND archery, or AND magick, so of course they aren't just going to sit in melee. But I just find it annoying to have people run circles around me while swinging their weapon, just is..strange, but I have always found this tactic strange in all MMOs. I am sure it has been around since day 1 of MMOs, but I guess it is a tactic people use to not get hit, which is fair, but annoying.
Every MMO has its own "skill-base" wether it is knowing the correct button/skill combinations to use, like in WoW, since that is the compared MMO in this post.
WoW PVP can be just as "skillfull" as Darkfall, it is just a matter of perspective in my opinion. Clicking peoples character models, and clicking heals, or spells, or melee abilities requires a sort of skill. Especially reaction time to be able to press the buttons quick enough, move your character, and react to what the other player is doing.
FPS is skill based as well, but your average "Joe PvPer" is going to act like a chicken with it's head cut off. If I could sum up darkfall MELEE pvp in one word, I would use "Jousting". I very very much enjoy archery and magick in the fact that you have to manually aim though. Archery is tons of fun, especially having to aim higher to shoot a longer shot.
Guess I am saying, every game requires a certain "skill" to be good at. Sure anyone can press buttons, but anyone can also hold sprint and run around swinging their weapon. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Alls I know is I need to work on my melee pvp skills because backpeddling and parrying, and healing myself usually yiels me a loss, hehe, but I will get there eventually.
Apologies if either of my posts sounded negative.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Originally posted by Dragim Originally posted by Nizur
Originally posted by Dragim If you call running around like a chicken with your head cut-off swingly wildy, skill, then sure. Darkfall PvP is laughable, and to say that a newb can fight a 6 month veteran and have a chance is definetly not true. Your character skills matter in this game just as much as your character level in another game, don't let anyone fool you. and you WILL grind, A LOT. Maybe even more than an asian mmorpg. But if you can sprint randomly, and swing wildly than this is the pvp for you! oh and full loot of course! I play this game currently, but I am sorry, the pvp melee combat is a total joke. It is nothing like real combat would be, but that is why it is a game. Don't expect to "engage" someone. Expect to spend 5 minutes running around each other in circles, swinging wildly.
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack. Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
That is a good point. But I just find it frustrating hehe. Mousecontrol is definetly better for a more skilled PvPer, but I don't know, somethin just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I have NO idea how I would make it better, I don't know of any way to get players to stay "engaged" with one another, especially when everyone is a "hybrid", meaning they are melee AND archery, or AND magick, so of course they aren't just going to sit in melee. But I just find it annoying to have people run circles around me while swinging their weapon, just is..strange, but I have always found this tactic strange in all MMOs. I am sure it has been around since day 1 of MMOs, but I guess it is a tactic people use to not get hit, which is fair, but annoying. Every MMO has its own "skill-base" wether it is knowing the correct button/skill combinations to use, like in WoW, since that is the compared MMO in this post. WoW PVP can be just as "skillfull" as Darkfall, it is just a matter of perspective in my opinion. Clicking peoples character models, and clicking heals, or spells, or melee abilities requires a sort of skill. Especially reaction time to be able to press the buttons quick enough, move your character, and react to what the other player is doing. FPS is skill based as well, but your average "Joe PvPer" is going to act like a chicken with it's head cut off. If I could sum up darkfall MELEE pvp in one word, I would use "Jousting". I very very much enjoy archery and magick in the fact that you have to manually aim though. Archery is tons of fun, especially having to aim higher to shoot a longer shot. Guess I am saying, every game requires a certain "skill" to be good at. Sure anyone can press buttons, but anyone can also hold sprint and run around swinging their weapon. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Alls I know is I need to work on my melee pvp skills because backpeddling and parrying, and healing myself usually yiels me a loss, hehe, but I will get there eventually. Apologies if either of my posts sounded negative.
I agree that it's frustrating when someone is jumping around and swinging wildly. I think the only way to get people to really engage would be to weigh them down. Meaning, the amount of armor you are wearing will slow you down. You won't be able to jump much, if at all, and you can't sprint much or you'll get tired quickly. The opposite end would be if you didn't have much armor you could do all kinds of wild moves, but you'd be dead in about 1 or 2 good hits to key areas.
In order to get MMO melee combat to be as realistic as possible, the coding behind it would need to be very complex. Not to mention all the key combos and finger contortions your average player would need to learn in order to be any good. Most people would rage quit after their first few losses if they felt they would never be able to get a handle on it all. I think it's just a limitation of the medium at this point in time.
I agree every good MMO player must have some kind of skill in order to be good at PvP, I've never said otherwise. Only that DF PvP has an extra layer that makes it more challenging because of the mouse aim and distance/velocity calculation that's involved. It's MUCH easier to miss in DF than in any other MMO I've tried.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics.
I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released.
Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it.
WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW.
This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills.
No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics. I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released. Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it. WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW. This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills. No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
Dude. Thank you. This made my day. =]
My sentiments exactly. Except that I already experienced Darkfall and left very shortly after, never to return again.
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics. I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released. Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it. WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW. This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills. No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
So leading someone while they are moving and could be on a higher or lower elevation with a arrow or magic spell while at the same time dodging takes no skill, by your own admission you have never played Darkfall, so please try the game before speaking about it. It would be the equivalent to me saying WoW pvp takes no skill and I have never played the game, the only thing I can comment on is that I have played a few games that dont take much skill (L2, WAR, Aion, SWG, EVE, etc etc and I have no idea if WoW is like them) and what I mean by that is the push tab to lock onto your opponent then push keys to shoot things at them that take no player skill in aiming as they will home in on thier target.
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics. I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released. Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it. WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW. This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills. No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
So leading someone while they are moving and could be on a higher or lower elevation with a arrow or magic spell while at the same time dodging takes no skill, by your own admission you have never played Darkfall, so please try the game before speaking about it. It would be the equivalent to me saying WoW pvp takes no skill and I have never played the game, the only thing I can comment on is that I have played a few games that dont take much skill (L2, WAR, Aion, SWG, EVE, etc etc and I have no idea if WoW is like them) and what I mean by that is the push tab to lock onto your opponent then push keys to shoot things at them that take no player skill in aiming as they will home in on thier target.
Yes I mean to say that exactly. Maybe its because Im from Louisiana. I own guns. I have shot them. I learned how to lead my target when I was 5. I see no skill in that. Dodging spells and melee? Ive dodged melee my entire life playing a caster in pvp.
You want skill? One shot a fish in the water with a pellet gun from different distances and angles. I have not played DF.
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics. I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released. Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it. WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW. This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills. No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
Im not a WoW fan. But I do like chess. I spend countless hours playing the crappy microsoft version online with other players. Chess, believe it or not, requires strategies and tactics. I have learned that if i see a certain piece do a certain set of moves,my opponent is following a strategy. I have those memorized and counter strats memorized.
Comments
I'm only playing the game because I like the concept, and think the world is at least moderately interesting. But I don't personall think *anyone* cares about my views on the world and the game concept.
Skill is something I feel l as if I can write about as objectively as possible.
Im not bashing anything, just saying WoW looks like its for kids.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
This is only true if the images are not actually in front of you during the duration of of your playing time.
Regardless of how people think graphics dont matter when your entire playing time is spent in front of the graphics they DO matter.
I can not play WoW without using conscious energy trying to not vomit.
I want to clarify, when I say graphics I mean art direction, not technical
lets take Age Of Conan to this too
it looks realistic ,world is nice and water is exellent and sky is beautiful,so good that you can allmost believe of being there,now your imagination and brains does a trick.
Wheres birds from trees and fishes from lakes and real happenings from real world?more it looks real then even more it feels dead.theres missing so much stuff that i cant even imagine and i dont even want to.I call it to "Star Trek TOS effect" theres happening so much stuff that doenst follow any logic in the universe,but they just happen because theres no rules in Star Trek.But in realistic world there is.
comparing WoW and Darkfall graphics is not that simple ,thats all.
ah that PvP ,WoW wins ,because those graphics hurts your eyes but feeds your brains so it cant be easy to play ,so it must need skill 1-1
Generation P
1. Game play and mechanics are more important than graphics I wouldnt suggest that they are not. That said I AM saying graphics ARE important but not MORE important than game mechanics.
2. For me art direction of the graphics are extreemly important in my decision. Not the only factor but very important and I just cant look at WoW without laughing long enough to tollerate. sorry not going to change
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Im not bashing anything, just saying WoW looks like its for kids.
They are!
I actually came here just to laugh at the post title, but now I am just sad someone thinks WOW takes any skill other than
being able to type your toon name and password to log in. THAT is the biggest skill required in WOW.
Sounds like the same agrument of EVE vs DF combat comparison. There really isn't much to compare, since their " difficulty " are in different aspects. I can already see this topic being locked when the OP comes back with their conclusion.
Thing is DF as players start to get more buffs and enchanted items are a bit more commonly created I am starting to very much notice other combat dynamics other than just geography and twitch skills.
I have a few enchanted items that most work better against some mobs than other mobs as an example. Also I still have a lot of stats that are basically zero on my character sheet. Not to mention many weapons have lots of stats that we dont fully understand yet.
What I am saying is that in the coming 12 months I think things are going to get very intresting with comming patches.
Also as a side note, they did mention that coming up there will be a "massive graphic update" I seriously doubt that massive update was the animantions and spells
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I have nothing against WoW, but i just find the DF experience to be better in every single facet. No idea which takes more skill, nor do i care. I will say, i find DF more difficult in terms of being aware of your environment and ready to react to whatever random happens.
Hehe it's always fun to see when people make arguments about things they don't have the slightest idea about. I played alot WoW and DF and can admit I sucked in both. I mean I didn't just suck but did suck on a higher level. As long as it goes to 2000+ rating arena or fighting vs DF elite pvpers you need to have something special in you, some skills and abilities I don't have. I bet most of people here don't have. But I don't understand why do they argue of things they don't understand?
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
DF is more skilled then wow because in DF, you are forced to be skilled to survive or to achieve something while in wow, you just need strategy. YOu can write your plan on paper like coach of football do for their teams. I mean, in wow, you test your skill in arena and BG. ITs always the same map. So basically, the reason why DF take far more skill then wow is simply because wow already got more strategy then skill on his part. In wow, its more like. While in wow, you can check out a spoiler website to see how you can be the best by rebuilding your talent tree, what skill to use often vs each class, who are the best teamates and all, what to do on each BG or arena map, in DF, even if there was spoiler website to teach you how to be the best, it would never be enough since you still have to aim, get use to where ever you go since the world is huge, watching out for pkers around the world that might jump at you, trying to not hit your own teamates too in a team fight, basically, in DF skill, the possibilities are infinite while in wow, they are very limited so at the end, all the pro's of wow play the same way while in DF, you can see a great originality of play style between each players.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
All it does is to confirm me about what most gamers say about MMO communities.
It's rather funny how they think that you can only like/play 1 MMO(I've never seen so much use of fanboy/hater in other gaming communities)and your gaming skills are so much bigger if you play another MMO.
Sorry guys, but the difference between DF and WoW is still minimal, not to mention the quality of this genre is low compared to other genres.
But that's just how MMORPG.com works.
For the record, here's my paladin alt(yeah, I did abandon him before Ulduar).
I won't link my main for my good reasons, but I'm at 2,2k at the moment, trying to find a good partner.
DF is more skilled then wow because in DF, you are forced to be skilled to survive or to achieve something while in wow, you just need strategy. YOu can write your plan on paper like coach of football do for their teams. I mean, in wow, you test your skill in arena and BG. ITs always the same map. So basically, the reason why DF take far more skill then wow is simply because wow already got more strategy then skill on his part. In wow, its more like. While in wow, you can check out a spoiler website to see how you can be the best by rebuilding your talent tree, what skill to use often vs each class, who are the best teamates and all, what to do on each BG or arena map, in DF, even if there was spoiler website to teach you how to be the best, it would never be enough since you still have to aim, get use to where ever you go since the world is huge, watching out for pkers around the world that might jump at you, trying to not hit your own teamates too in a team fight, basically, in DF skill, the possibilities are infinite while in wow, they are very limited so at the end, all the pro's of wow play the same way while in DF, you can see a great originality of play style between each players.
But it's not that easy, you see.
Of course you can get your average Joe spec a FOTM setup, get proper gear, enchants and gems and teach him how to play, give him a mic and put him on a Ventrilo server. He'll probably still fail.
Most of the time, he can't simply push the ability fast enough.
When I ask for a Counterspell to finish off the damn player, he'll do it 2 secons later and thanks to that...it's pretty much futile.
When I ask him to switch target fast, DPS a target then switch back and DPS the first target...again, he'll probably not do it fast enough and even worse, he'll screw up my CC and break everything.
It's actually a lot more random than you might think it is. I'll sometimes call for DPS and get what...him still spam healing me...these things can matter.
On the other side, he might try to DPS all the time and blow all his mana, then when I need healing he'll stare at me and do nothing.
If he can't do these simple things, how can I demand him finesse things such as SW:Ding Polys, which requires 0.1 second reactions and awareness.
Trust me, it's a lot more than simply visiting a site, because things can go random many times.
Any time you're playing against other PC toons in any MMO things become random.
It's been mentioned earlier that both WoW and DF PvP take skill, just different kinds of skill. Both take a certain amount of strategy. Both require you to have good reflexes and timing. Both require you to be able to follow orders. Where DF is different from WoW is that you also need to have more mouse control and distance/velocity judgement.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Any time you're playing against other PC toons in any MMO things become random.
It's been mentioned earlier that both WoW and DF PvP take skill, just different kinds of skill. Both take a certain amount of strategy. Both require you to have good reflexes and timing. Both require you to be able to follow orders. Where DF is different from WoW is that you also need to have more mouse control and distance/velocity judgement.
I can't and won't disagree with this.
If you call running around like a chicken with your head cut-off swingly wildy, skill, then sure.
Darkfall PvP is laughable, and to say that a newb can fight a 6 month veteran and have a chance is definetly not true.
Your character skills matter in this game just as much as your character level in another game, don't let anyone fool you.
and you WILL grind, A LOT. Maybe even more than an asian mmorpg.
But if you can sprint randomly, and swing wildly than this is the pvp for you! oh and full loot of course!
I play this game currently, but I am sorry, the pvp melee combat is a total joke. It is nothing like real combat would be, but that is why it is a game. Don't expect to "engage" someone. Expect to spend 5 minutes running around each other in circles, swinging wildly.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack.
Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack.
Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
That is a good point. But I just find it frustrating hehe. Mousecontrol is definetly better for a more skilled PvPer, but I don't know, somethin just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I have NO idea how I would make it better, I don't know of any way to get players to stay "engaged" with one another, especially when everyone is a "hybrid", meaning they are melee AND archery, or AND magick, so of course they aren't just going to sit in melee. But I just find it annoying to have people run circles around me while swinging their weapon, just is..strange, but I have always found this tactic strange in all MMOs. I am sure it has been around since day 1 of MMOs, but I guess it is a tactic people use to not get hit, which is fair, but annoying.
Every MMO has its own "skill-base" wether it is knowing the correct button/skill combinations to use, like in WoW, since that is the compared MMO in this post.
WoW PVP can be just as "skillfull" as Darkfall, it is just a matter of perspective in my opinion. Clicking peoples character models, and clicking heals, or spells, or melee abilities requires a sort of skill. Especially reaction time to be able to press the buttons quick enough, move your character, and react to what the other player is doing.
FPS is skill based as well, but your average "Joe PvPer" is going to act like a chicken with it's head cut off. If I could sum up darkfall MELEE pvp in one word, I would use "Jousting". I very very much enjoy archery and magick in the fact that you have to manually aim though. Archery is tons of fun, especially having to aim higher to shoot a longer shot.
Guess I am saying, every game requires a certain "skill" to be good at. Sure anyone can press buttons, but anyone can also hold sprint and run around swinging their weapon. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Alls I know is I need to work on my melee pvp skills because backpeddling and parrying, and healing myself usually yiels me a loss, hehe, but I will get there eventually.
Apologies if either of my posts sounded negative.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Im not bashing anything, just saying WoW looks like its for kids.
Trolling. =P
...had to. Lol.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
What you're doing is using your average Joe PvPer as an example (and only using melee). Sure your average player will be swinging wildly, but your skilled player will be doing a whole lot more. Managing stamina/health, healing themselves when needed, popping pots when needed, using terrain to their advantage, kiting, and so on. And that's on top of the usual aim/swing/parry melee combat involves. Your skilled player will almost always have better aim, mouse control and judgement on when to attack.
Did you watch the video of the recent player-run PvP tournament? It didn't look like wild swings and headless chickens to me. Everything I mentioned above was being used.
That is a good point. But I just find it frustrating hehe. Mousecontrol is definetly better for a more skilled PvPer, but I don't know, somethin just doesn't sit right with me. Granted I have NO idea how I would make it better, I don't know of any way to get players to stay "engaged" with one another, especially when everyone is a "hybrid", meaning they are melee AND archery, or AND magick, so of course they aren't just going to sit in melee. But I just find it annoying to have people run circles around me while swinging their weapon, just is..strange, but I have always found this tactic strange in all MMOs. I am sure it has been around since day 1 of MMOs, but I guess it is a tactic people use to not get hit, which is fair, but annoying.
Every MMO has its own "skill-base" wether it is knowing the correct button/skill combinations to use, like in WoW, since that is the compared MMO in this post.
WoW PVP can be just as "skillfull" as Darkfall, it is just a matter of perspective in my opinion. Clicking peoples character models, and clicking heals, or spells, or melee abilities requires a sort of skill. Especially reaction time to be able to press the buttons quick enough, move your character, and react to what the other player is doing.
FPS is skill based as well, but your average "Joe PvPer" is going to act like a chicken with it's head cut off. If I could sum up darkfall MELEE pvp in one word, I would use "Jousting". I very very much enjoy archery and magick in the fact that you have to manually aim though. Archery is tons of fun, especially having to aim higher to shoot a longer shot.
Guess I am saying, every game requires a certain "skill" to be good at. Sure anyone can press buttons, but anyone can also hold sprint and run around swinging their weapon. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Alls I know is I need to work on my melee pvp skills because backpeddling and parrying, and healing myself usually yiels me a loss, hehe, but I will get there eventually.
Apologies if either of my posts sounded negative.
I agree that it's frustrating when someone is jumping around and swinging wildly. I think the only way to get people to really engage would be to weigh them down. Meaning, the amount of armor you are wearing will slow you down. You won't be able to jump much, if at all, and you can't sprint much or you'll get tired quickly. The opposite end would be if you didn't have much armor you could do all kinds of wild moves, but you'd be dead in about 1 or 2 good hits to key areas.
In order to get MMO melee combat to be as realistic as possible, the coding behind it would need to be very complex. Not to mention all the key combos and finger contortions your average player would need to learn in order to be any good. Most people would rage quit after their first few losses if they felt they would never be able to get a handle on it all. I think it's just a limitation of the medium at this point in time.
I agree every good MMO player must have some kind of skill in order to be good at PvP, I've never said otherwise. Only that DF PvP has an extra layer that makes it more challenging because of the mouse aim and distance/velocity calculation that's involved. It's MUCH easier to miss in DF than in any other MMO I've tried.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I do not own Darkfall. I played wow briefly when it came out, but quit because I hated the graphics.
I have watched most of the video clips on darkfall. I will probably buy it when a dvd version gets released.
Id have to say, if you take away the the FPS nature of darkfall, you would have a game that takes less skill. Darkfall appears to be all about higher stat points, wack a mole sorta thing. Very little skill involved, certainly no more skill than playing Halo. THat being said, I like the game and will buy it.
WoW pvp, when I played at launch, was a game of chess. If you sucked at it, you were gonna die, but if you were good, you were good. I had to memorize strategies against every different class. Then I had to memorize strats for each talent spec. WoW pvp took thinking, memozation, skillfull use of cc, target priortization, etc. I could really go on an on about how great the WOW pvp was. And I hate WoW.
This argument on how skillfull darkfall is to play is getting old. It looks like a great game, but from what I see, the guy better at pointing a mouse will hit the arrow, and the guy with higher stats will always win. Why do you guys try to candy coat that? Can you not just say the game is fun because it only revolves around PvP? Its fun because the higher stats are the only thing that matter, and it really is a game of numbers. My clan will win because we have hte most people on and we have been playing 5 days longer grinding out our skills.
No need to stretch out our epeen because DF is a less popular game, so if we play it, it makes us cooler than those who dont. Stick to the facts. I see zero strategy in DF. I see the a zerg atmosphere.... I still think DF will be a perfect game for me because pvp is the only thing about mmos I enjoy.
Dude. Thank you. This made my day. =]
My sentiments exactly. Except that I already experienced Darkfall and left very shortly after, never to return again.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
So leading someone while they are moving and could be on a higher or lower elevation with a arrow or magic spell while at the same time dodging takes no skill, by your own admission you have never played Darkfall, so please try the game before speaking about it. It would be the equivalent to me saying WoW pvp takes no skill and I have never played the game, the only thing I can comment on is that I have played a few games that dont take much skill (L2, WAR, Aion, SWG, EVE, etc etc and I have no idea if WoW is like them) and what I mean by that is the push tab to lock onto your opponent then push keys to shoot things at them that take no player skill in aiming as they will home in on thier target.
So leading someone while they are moving and could be on a higher or lower elevation with a arrow or magic spell while at the same time dodging takes no skill, by your own admission you have never played Darkfall, so please try the game before speaking about it. It would be the equivalent to me saying WoW pvp takes no skill and I have never played the game, the only thing I can comment on is that I have played a few games that dont take much skill (L2, WAR, Aion, SWG, EVE, etc etc and I have no idea if WoW is like them) and what I mean by that is the push tab to lock onto your opponent then push keys to shoot things at them that take no player skill in aiming as they will home in on thier target.
Yes I mean to say that exactly. Maybe its because Im from Louisiana. I own guns. I have shot them. I learned how to lead my target when I was 5. I see no skill in that. Dodging spells and melee? Ive dodged melee my entire life playing a caster in pvp.
You want skill? One shot a fish in the water with a pellet gun from different distances and angles. I have not played DF.
You have to be having a laugh ?
Please dont insult the game of chess as well.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
Im not a WoW fan. But I do like chess. I spend countless hours playing the crappy microsoft version online with other players. Chess, believe it or not, requires strategies and tactics. I have learned that if i see a certain piece do a certain set of moves,my opponent is following a strategy. I have those memorized and counter strats memorized.
Again Im not trying to insult anything here.