I've just switched to Darkfall and i think its bloody brilliant. The combat system is ace. The ability to kill ANY player is fantastic. In so many games you get those idiots who keep stealing your mobs, looting your drops etc... etc... but in this game, as i have done already since only playing 2 days, if someone keeps trying to steal my loot or keep on hitting me with arrows or spells accidently or not, i'll slaughter them. Wait for them to become a tomb and loot their equipment. But then, they could group up with a friend and destroy me, getting their gear back and mine in the process. Its a great vicious circle. As for your Goblin issue. Like others have said, there are many other mobs. BUT, i find the fact the goblins hide behind objects, move around, have realistic attacking range etc... i could kill them all day. Its a great challenge. I guess thats just me though since you say the combat is thrilling, maybe for you not THAT thrilling afterall. After joining NEW earlier tonight, finding out what level my stats need to be before i can hold my own against the majority of higher end players, it will not take a year to have "fun". To me, i'm already having fun. BUT if you mean fun to be high scale pvp battles, then no, i think saying it will take a year is a bit silly.
Just as a side note. I hear a lot of people complaining about ganking. I've been ganked twice in two days by the same guy within 5 minutes. He was some badass Ork that killed me in 3 hits. I lost all my gear. Did i cry, no. Why? because i know i will have my revenge one day and loot his .
I love darkfall the way it is, therefore I will continue to pay and play. You dont like it how it is, so find another game. its that simple.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
I agree w/ knifo. Find another easier game whiners, Darkfall has long term character progression, deal with it like everyone else or GTFO.
btw 70 str = 35 HP and about 7 extra damage per hit. I've been playing since 2 week after release and I don't have 100 str yet and I play all the time.
this whole post is pretty dumb b/c stats already gain faster for newer players and any reasons as to why is pure speculation. Some say after your skill reaches 100 you don't gain stats as fast in that skill, others say its when you reach certain number of stat points.
I love darkfall the way it is, therefore I will continue to pay and play. You dont like it how it is, so find another game. its that simple.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Going to mimic another post and say I love DF the way it is too. I am a noob and if you other noobs keep crying about stats and how you get your ass kicked because you only play 5 hours a week..... Darkfall does not seem to be the game for you. Why try to change what others like.
No one expect DF to make a million subs. 250k seems to be what everyone expects. Let the niche have its niche game.
edited for typos and comment on bag space: infinite storage capabilities in your bank (as far as im aware of) and I do mean infinite. You want 250 plate breast plates? You got em. You want all types of harvestables in an individual bag, you got it. You want all their subcombines in their own unique bags... got that too. You want to stack up these 20 bags on top of each other so they only take up one bag slot in your bank? Yep, got that too. Fking Brilliant.
I love darkfall the way it is, therefore I will continue to pay and play. You dont like it how it is, so find another game. its that simple.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
You are wrong as EVE is Sandbox. You can do whatever you want. Darkfall is a mixture of Sandbox and normal MMORPG. This game exist all around of pvp. The problem for most people is that they have to grind so much before they actually can start to pvp. Everything before is peanuts except if you are damn lucky to find a player on your skill / stats level.
In EvE first you are in a safe zone, where you can increase your skills and decide yourself when you are ready to go outside and play with bad boys. In Darkfall this isnt the case. Its ok there are griefers but as long you dont join any clan thats not a problem.
My opinion is that AV has to open DF to greater mass otherwise it will end same way as Shadowbane did it and i dont want it to happen as i like the pvp. Im living in Sunthrone just for info to all these carebears.
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
A good post, and i certainly understand what you are saying.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide? EVE has several layers of content that the player can chew upon before even taking the plunge to 0.0. Hell, you know quite well that it doesn't even require you to engage in any PVP whatsoever. I have a friend that plays "supply broker" there for 2 years, and he rarely, if ever, undocks.
DFO does not have this advantage. It caters to a very small population, and does not provide a good experience to most gaming styles out there. This is the issue, I think.
DFO caters to the PVPer, and not much else. Thus, it needs a better growth curve to accommodate both veterans and newbies alike. It can be done without dumbing down the game, and I believe no one wants this.
Aventurine has shown signs that they want to open up the game to a wider gamut of players (such as PVE changes, 'fluff" items as housing and a more sensible skill progression). The game is not as "hardcore" as it once was, and the sky didn't fell down; quite the contrary, more people got into the game.
I repeat: making the game a better experience is NOT dumbing it down.
Originally posted by StrixMaxima I repeat: making the game a better experience is NOT dumbing it down.
This is true to a point. "Better experience" is very subjective. What makes some players giggle with glee will piss off others. Every MMO I've ever played for any extended time has wrestled with this issue.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind".
RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics.
Having a well trained char from the get go and just PvP for the sake of PvP is called shooter, CS and others offer that.
That is what bottom line comes to IMO. It reminds me those whiners in SWG who wanted to become Jedi handed without them investing anything and i don't want to be reminded to the NGE.
If they raise the stat gain they have to invent something else maybe new hard to get skills to become an MMORPG again.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I love darkfall the way it is, therefore I will continue to pay and play. You dont like it how it is, so find another game. its that simple.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
You are wrong as EVE is Sandbox. You can do whatever you want. Darkfall is a mixture of Sandbox and normal MMORPG. This game exist all around of pvp. The problem for most people is that they have to grind so much before they actually can start to pvp. Everything before is peanuts except if you are damn lucky to find a player on your skill / stats level.
In EvE first you are in a safe zone, where you can increase your skills and decide yourself when you are ready to go outside and play with bad boys. In Darkfall this isnt the case. Its ok there are griefers but as long you dont join any clan thats not a problem.
My opinion is that AV has to open DF to greater mass otherwise it will end same way as Shadowbane did it and i dont want it to happen as i like the pvp. Im living in Sunthrone just for info to all these carebears.
I'll agree with you that EVE has a safer zone where players are free to learn the game basics w/o being killed on every corner as tends to be the case more so in DFO. Its one reason why I play EVE vs DFO.
But, the important thing is that the current player base enjoys the game for what it is today. Historically games that have tried to alter their core game mechanics (DAOC, UO, and surely SWG) have driven off the core player base while not picking up more players to replace all of them.
CCP is one of the few companies to avoid this problem by making sure its core game play is basically the same as it was 5 years ago when it launched, and they have slowly grown the game by convincing the new player base to give it a try where they then find out they actually like the game as designed.
DFO could probably stand to add some safe zones for new players, or maybe make them unkillable for their first month then the gloves come off. But even suggestions like this will upset many of the current player base and nothing like this should be added w/o careful thought.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
A good post, and i certainly understand what you are saying.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide? EVE has several layers of content that the player can chew upon before even taking the plunge to 0.0. Hell, you know quite well that it doesn't even require you to engage in any PVP whatsoever. I have a friend that plays "supply broker" there for 2 years, and he rarely, if ever, undocks.
DFO does not have this advantage. It caters to a very small population, and does not provide a good experience to most gaming styles out there. This is the issue, I think.
DFO caters to the PVPer, and not much else. Thus, it needs a better growth curve to accommodate both veterans and newbies alike. It can be done without dumbing down the game, and I believe no one wants this.
Aventurine has shown signs that they want to open up the game to a wider gamut of players (such as PVE changes, 'fluff" items as housing and a more sensible skill progression). The game is not as "hardcore" as it once was, and the sky didn't fell down; quite the contrary, more people got into the game.
I repeat: making the game a better experience is NOT dumbing it down.
Never said changing the game experience was dumbing things down, but they can certainly ruin it for the current players who enjoy the game for what it is at this moment. It is my opinion that companies who try to do this generally fail in almost every case (DAOC with the TOA expansion, SWG with the NGE etc)
For better or worse, DFO positioned itself as a hardcore, FFA looting full on PVP game, and they probably would do themselves a disservice if they attempted to move too far from the model.
At EVE's core is the real time skill training and countless people have called for CCP to change this (which they tweaked in some minor ways) but for the most part they've resisted. There's also been calls to remove things like suicide ganking in empire space, changing gate camp mechanics to make it easier to get through, prevention of can flipping in empire, and even calls to prevent scamming of players which is a legitimate tactic. CCP has resisted all of this and kept the game a fairly hardcore experience.
IMO, Aventurine should be very careful when trying to broaden DFO's appeal and always make sure they don't abandoned their core playerbase, otherwise their likely to end up with nothing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there.
Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time.
Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly.
From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps. In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else. They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there. Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time. Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly. From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
Ummm....3 months of playing day in and day out hardcore (6-8 hours a day everyday of the week) yes maybe but not as a casual player. Fact is to be honest the grind in DF is very hardcore. First there is the stat gap and then the skill points gap for weapons, weapons skills, spells, overall spell schools, stamina, sprinting, riding, jumping to cover on top of understanding the game mechanics. 3 months if you play like a average person will mean that you are only just being able to take on medium mob spawns if you min/max your stats and skill points and grind hardcore on these areas. This involves maxing out your harvesting skills to take advantage of the fact that they grant a lot to certain stat points and provide a lot reagents for spells. For example I went hardcore and got my herb gathering skill to 100 which is the cap and my herb mastery to about 89 points(100 is the cap for this mastery). In total I raised my wisdom all the way form 25 points to about 39 points and my intelligence from 21 to about 28 points. This was basically harvesting like a made man for about 10+ hours a day in 2 half days.
PVP in DFO is a lot harder to get competitive in unless you are part a very large group and only then you'll probably be sniping with a bow but you will not be competive in 1v1 pvp in DF.
Unlike in EVE were I can be helpful in just under a 2 weeks with the right build which has me being a tackler for a fleet and allows me to run level 1 and 2 missions for ISK generation and pvp'ing solo if I like in 3 months again with the right skills and knowledge of the game. In DFO you wont be doing anything pvp wise in the same time frame except being a notch on some other players belt. PVE wise you are going to kill goblins until your eyes bleed. The only area where this is not true is in naval combat where you can man a cannon because that is the only pvp part of the game that does not require stat or skill points.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps. In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else. They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
There are a handful of guys who have max vital in DF on the NA server. Even with 400 health that is a huge advantage in PvP let alone all the other skills, spells and stats which are going to be just as high compared to a new player. This isn't even mentioning their better gear and food buffs, access to better potions, etc..
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics. Having a well trained char from the get go and just PvP for the sake of PvP is called shooter, CS and others offer that. That is what bottom line comes to IMO. It reminds me those whiners in SWG who wanted to become Jedi handed without them investing anything and i don't want to be reminded to the NGE. If they raise the stat gain they have to invent something else maybe new hard to get skills to become an MMORPG again.
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there.
Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time.
Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly.
From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
Ummm....3 months of playing day in and day out hardcore (6-8 hours a day everyday of the week) yes maybe but not as a casual player. Fact is to be honest the grind in DF is very hardcore. First there is the stat gap and then the skill points gap for weapons, weapons skills, spells, overall spell schools, stamina, sprinting, riding, jumping to cover on top of understanding the game mechanics. 3 months if you play like a average person will mean that you are only just being able to take on medium mob spawns if you min/max your stats and skill points and grind hardcore on these areas. This involves maxing out your harvesting skills to take advantage of the fact that they grant a lot to certain stat points and provide a lot reagents for spells. For example I went hardcore and got my herb gathering skill to 100 which is the cap and my herb mastery to about 89 points(100 is the cap for this mastery). In total I raised my wisdom all the way form 25 points to about 39 points and my intelligence from 21 to about 28 points. This was basically harvesting like a made man for about 10+ hours a day in 2 half days.
PVP in DFO is a lot harder to get competitive in unless you are part a very large group and only then you'll probably be sniping with a bow but you will not be competive in 1v1 pvp in DF.
Unlike in EVE were I can be helpful in just under a 2 weeks with the right build which has me being a tackler for a fleet and allows me to run level 1 and 2 missions for ISK generation and pvp'ing solo if I like in 3 months again with the right skills and knowledge of the game. In DFO you wont be doing anything pvp wise in the same time frame except being a notch on some other players belt. PVE wise you are going to kill goblins until your eyes bleed. The only area where this is not true is in naval combat where you can man a cannon because that is the only pvp part of the game that does not require stat or skill points.
3 months and you can only kill medium spawns? That is pretty bad.
I didn't kill goblins beyond my first two days in game. You seriously killed goblins till your eyes bled? That is pretty funny b/c they have such horrible loot and probably the worst mob to farm considering their difficulty vs loot. I went straight from goblins to med-high mobs, using terrain like trees and rocks to provide some cover from projectiles. Hell I killed a dark dragon solo in my first month, it took me 2 hours of mana missle but I did it. totally not worth it tho, loot sucked at the time for that mob.
to be blunt, my advice to you is to stop sucking, gathering is nowhere near as fast in raising stats as combat skills used against mobs and nobody gathers for regs, thats just a side benefit. Wisdom is only good for crafting really. You should have seen how slowly skills raised before, it would take an entire day hitting something non-stop just to get 50 weapon skill.
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics. Having a well trained char from the get go and just PvP for the sake of PvP is called shooter, CS and others offer that. That is what bottom line comes to IMO. It reminds me those whiners in SWG who wanted to become Jedi handed without them investing anything and i don't want to be reminded to the NGE. If they raise the stat gain they have to invent something else maybe new hard to get skills to become an MMORPG again.
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
not really true, its just that most players want to do the same thing. I know of a guy who plays as a healer/support class. You do what you want in DFO and your role is defined by the gear and abilities you use. You can't be healer or mage in full plate and you will be asking to die if you play as an archer or melee person in light armor. Melee is more situational than a pure role, i know, but it does have its uses and some players do play as pure melee although they really show pull out a bow when being kited in 1v1.
I know PVE can be boring and monotonous farming the same thing all day but at least its somewhat challenging. PVE has always been pretty boring for me in any mmo anyway. I like to think of the PVE in Darkfall as a just another resource to be farmed b/c I agree its not the main attraction in DFO. The AI is actually the best ive seen tho. Mobs can predict where you are going to be based on your direction and they can hit you with a slow moving projectile from very far away, its pretty incredible.
I love the feeling that progression never stops, somehow games get boring for me once I can't progress anymore. You should know that DFO wasn't set up for skill cap and I don't believe they ever promised that. Fortunately they decided not to implement skill decay, another wise decision. You complain about grind and then want skill decay which would make the grind even worse. I don't get that.
grinding on mobs does nothing but raise your stats? it doesn't give you income?
right now im watching a movie while clicking on a node every 10 mins, such a horrible grind ,
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics. Having a well trained char from the get go and just PvP for the sake of PvP is called shooter, CS and others offer that. That is what bottom line comes to IMO. It reminds me those whiners in SWG who wanted to become Jedi handed without them investing anything and i don't want to be reminded to the NGE. If they raise the stat gain they have to invent something else maybe new hard to get skills to become an MMORPG again.
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
not really true, its just that most players want to do the same thing. I know of a guy who plays as a healer/support class. You do what you want in DFO and your role is defined by the gear and abilities you use. You can't be healer or mage in full plate and you will be asking to die if you play as an archer or melee person in light armor. Melee is more situational than a pure role, i know, but it does have its uses and some players do play as pure melee although they really show pull out a bow when being kited in 1v1.
I know PVE can be boring and monotonous farming the same thing all day but at least its somewhat challenging. PVE has always been pretty boring for me in any mmo anyway. I like to think of the PVE in Darkfall as a just another resource to be farmed b/c I agree its not the main attraction in DFO. The AI is actually the best ive seen tho. Mobs can predict where you are going to be based on your direction and they can hit you with a slow moving projectile from very far away, its pretty incredible.
I love the feeling that progression never stops, somehow games get boring for me once I can't progress anymore. You should know that DFO wasn't set up for skill cap and I don't believe they ever promised that. Fortunately they decided not to implement skill decay, another wise decision. You complain about grind and then want skill decay which would make the grind even worse. I don't get that.
grinding on mobs does nothing but raise your stats? it doesn't give you income?
right now im watching a movie while clicking on a node every 10 mins, such a horrible grind ,
Like i said, the faq that progression never stop is not the problem. The problem is that it force all players to never stop progressing and this is not what i call freedom overall. Since when did you followed darkfall? Me, since october 08 and i readed all about it. Tasos made some bunch of promise that didnt made it into the game like the mahirim in 4 stance to run like a mount speed and thats why they got no racial mount BTW. The webside change for 2 reason. It needed a big change and to reject all the great stuff they promised to us so it can be forgotten.
Skill decay and stats decay would make DF being less of a grind because while casual gamers would find an end on progressing their characters, the hardcore players would waste their time figuring out what are the best skill and stats build to own in PVP and this is where pvp preparation over grind would get into place.
For example, in wow, you if you take a warrior class, you got 3 talent build. You want to be the best at pvp, then you do pvp arena every day and every time you get owned when you know you could win that one, you try a different build teal you think its perfect. Well, if darkfall had a cap and decay, thats how we would change our build. If this dont work, il just put those useless skill into decay mode and practice this one to see if il do better next time.
Originally posted by Kyleran CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking. Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides. MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers) Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps. In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else. They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there. Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time. Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly. From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
Ummm....3 months of playing day in and day out hardcore (6-8 hours a day everyday of the week) yes maybe but not as a casual player. Fact is to be honest the grind in DF is very hardcore. First there is the stat gap and then the skill points gap for weapons, weapons skills, spells, overall spell schools, stamina, sprinting, riding, jumping to cover on top of understanding the game mechanics. 3 months if you play like a average person will mean that you are only just being able to take on medium mob spawns if you min/max your stats and skill points and grind hardcore on these areas. This involves maxing out your harvesting skills to take advantage of the fact that they grant a lot to certain stat points and provide a lot reagents for spells. For example I went hardcore and got my herb gathering skill to 100 which is the cap and my herb mastery to about 89 points(100 is the cap for this mastery). In total I raised my wisdom all the way form 25 points to about 39 points and my intelligence from 21 to about 28 points. This was basically harvesting like a made man for about 10+ hours a day in 2 half days.
PVP in DFO is a lot harder to get competitive in unless you are part a very large group and only then you'll probably be sniping with a bow but you will not be competive in 1v1 pvp in DF. Unlike in EVE were I can be helpful in just under a 2 weeks with the right build which has me being a tackler for a fleet and allows me to run level 1 and 2 missions for ISK generation and pvp'ing solo if I like in 3 months again with the right skills and knowledge of the game. In DFO you wont be doing anything pvp wise in the same time frame except being a notch on some other players belt. PVE wise you are going to kill goblins until your eyes bleed. The only area where this is not true is in naval combat where you can man a cannon because that is the only pvp part of the game that does not require stat or skill points.
3 months and you can only kill medium spawns? That is pretty bad. I didn't kill goblins beyond my first two days in game. You seriously killed goblins till your eyes bled? That is pretty funny b/c they have such horrible loot and probably the worst mob to farm considering their difficulty vs loot. I went straight from goblins to med-high mobs, using terrain like trees and rocks to provide some cover from projectiles. Hell I killed a dark dragon solo in my first month, it took me 2 hours of mana missle but I did it. totally not worth it tho, loot sucked at the time for that mob. to be blunt, my advice to you is to stop sucking, gathering is nowhere near as fast in raising stats as combat skills used against mobs and nobody gathers for regs, thats just a side benefit. Wisdom is only good for crafting really. You should have seen how slowly skills raised before, it would take an entire day hitting something non-stop just to get 50 weapon skill.
My advice is that you learn to read and work on your reading comprehension. I never said I played the game for 3 months as I was commenting on the post I quoted which used 3 months as measurement for player to become proficient at pvp enough to last longer then 2-3 hits by a rank 100 fireball spell.
As for you killing a dragon using just mana missle (the weakest damage spell skill in the game) well sorry I don't believe it. Then again you mentioned you played during the first month so probably the dragon bugged out hence your mana missile victory or you are just flat out lying. Anyways your experience is that of someone who seems to be playing (or played) the game at a hardcore level and probably bugged out mobs during the first month of the game. Also my comment was meant to reflect that of someone not playing like a loser 8+ hours a day, bugging out mobs, macroig and playing more at a casual pace (around 2-3 hours a day) will not see the same gains as a "hardcore player'. Thanks for proving my point for me.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics.
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics.
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
soon as they kill the only long term progression left in the game I will prob start looking for another game. I don't like it when game companys pander to babies and give them handicaps so they can compete with the really competitive players with much less effort. Thats what WoW does in the form of certain classes. A major part of the competition in PVP mmos is character development. Quit trying to kill the only long term character progression we have. 10 str = 1 damage and 5 more HP, find some more insignificant disadvantage to whine about.
Really I don't get what all the crying about grind since you can get 100 magic in 1 day when before it would take you 1-2 weeks depending on the school before. The whiners won't be happy till they are handed everything the competitive players had to work for, some of us played the game legit and spent a ridiculous amount of time developing our chars, why should we have our time wasted just because you are too lazy to put forth the effort? Why should you lazy whiners be able to compete with someone in 1v1 who has put more than 20x effort into developing their char than you? Not everyone has been playing since beta you know, its pretty stupid to say you can't pvp untill you max skills. Sometimes hitting 100 in a skill doesn't even give you a noticible difference. Many times I would test my damage on a mob when i ticked over into 50 mastery or 75 mastery and I couldn't even tell a difference in damage.
There was an article on MMORPG.com that talked about how other MMORPG games were ruined because of these whiners, They have legitimate concerns but by pandering to these vocal whiners and making the game more appealing to these whiners who didn't like long term character development, they disgruntle their player base who's competitive edge, that they worked hard for, was lost. Those people will find another game where the noobs can't compete with the pros.
Its impossible to die in 2-3 hits from a fireball even if one of them is surging.
This is a niche game for a "hardcore" pvper audience, quit trying to turn it into a game that appeals to lazy whiners. The grind isn't bad at all and if you are grinding stats or think you have to grind stats instead of playing the game normally, you are missing out on the game. Nobody ever complained about stat grind or grinding stats before they made everything else raise faster.
There will always be people at simliar levels of character progression, there is no max level to be obtained before you can pvp. I have put a ridiculous amount of time and have a much more advanced character than most but I can still only take 2 or 3 more hits more than the general population before I die. Grinding stats for a month just so you can eat one more fireball is totally not worth it. Welcome to long term character progression, deal with it or find an easier game.
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind". RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics.
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
soon as they kill the only long term progression left in the game I will prob start looking for another game. I don't like it when game companys pander to babies and give them handicaps so they can compete with the really competitive players with much less effort. Thats what WoW does in the form of certain classes. A major part of the competition in PVP mmos is character development. Quit trying to kill the only long term character progression we have. 10 str = 1 damage and 5 more HP, find some more insignificant disadvantage to whine about.
Really I don't get what all the crying about grind since you can get 100 magic in 1 day when before it would take you 1-2 weeks depending on the school before. The whiners won't be happy till they are handed everything the competitive players had to work for, some of us played the game legit and spent a ridiculous amount of time developing our chars, why should we have our time wasted just because you are too lazy to put forth the effort? Why should you lazy whiners be able to compete with someone in 1v1 who has put more than 20x effort into developing their char than you? Not everyone has been playing since beta you know, its pretty stupid to say you can't pvp untill you max skills. Sometimes hitting 100 in a skill doesn't even give you a noticible difference. Many times I would test my damage on a mob when i ticked over into 50 mastery or 75 mastery and I couldn't even tell a difference in damage.
There was an article on MMORPG.com that talked about how other MMORPG games were ruined because of these whiners, They have legitimate concerns but by pandering to these vocal whiners and making the game more appealing to these whiners who didn't like long term character development, they disgruntle their player base who's competitive edge, that they worked hard for, was lost. Those people will find another game where the noobs can't compete with the pros.
Its impossible to die in 2-3 hits from a fireball even if one of them is surging.
This is a niche game for a "hardcore" pvper audience, quit trying to turn it into a game that appeals to lazy whiners. The grind isn't bad at all and if you are grinding stats or think you have to grind stats instead of playing the game normally, you are missing out on the game. Nobody ever complained about stat grind or grinding stats before they made everything else raise faster.
There will always be people at simliar levels of character progression, there is no max level to be obtained before you can pvp. I have put a ridiculous amount of time and have a much more advanced character than most but I can still only take 2 or 3 more hits more than the general population before I die. Grinding stats for a month just so you can eat one more fireball is totally not worth it. Welcome to long term character progression, deal with it or find an easier game.
Im starting to believe that all you vets that fear us to catch up in an acceptable time paced lets say between a month to 3 are all carebears.
PVE is for carebears. So you guys go raise your skills there none stop, 8 hours a day to make sure that the new comers wont catch up. What? You dont want me to be able to join the game and kill you after 3 month of play because of my player skill? You want your stats to take part?
Darkfall is the carebear world of veterans. A safe zone full of vets. Newb's cant touch them so AGON is a safe zone for vets vs the new players.
You guys are carebear because y'all in a clan. None of you travel alone. And you force us newcomers to be carebears just like you by joining a clan name new or joining any clan because you state million of time that its impossible to solo in DF since the progression is slow. DF is really a game for carebears.
You guys got so much gears that even if you die, you go back to your own vet or clan vault bank and you take out the same items million of time. Its like for vet, there is 0 penality after death since you got load of gears. A stats loss system after death if introduced would make all you vets cry like babies cuz you all carebears but you cant admit it because you guys think y'all so hardcore instead.
No. None of you are hardcore when you look exacly like the guy from make love not warcraft who raid the newb's town all day.
Imao i cant believ how many people play for stat progression ... Too many wow players ... or what the hell is going on ... ?
First of all i want to play A GAME for FUN! And for me its pvp and its only reason. And because of broken system of DF i have to grind stats to be competative in pvp which sucks ... Though im still playing as i enjoy the game itself and i like the pvp. But i cant say how long i can keep this grind and how long it will take me to burn out and be sick and tired of this grind.
PS : For all carebears i live in Sunthrone. One of the best pvp hot spots A lot of inc daily.
I actually stopped DarkFall too (temporarily I hope).
So many things in DarkFall that I would love to try but it's only accessible by the strongest guild..... it's come to the point where it's annoying. I mean, let's be honest, small guilds can hardly survive nor access the "end-game". Alright you can get a Ship, but you lack the manpower to use all the cannons and the extra members to heal or repair ship while your enemy is coming your way with a Ship-Of-The-Line, 30 players shooting cannon balls at you, 50 players throwing nukes at you, etc.
Then there's the crafting where you can't craft important items (Astrolabe, Orb of Might, etc) .....the crazy inflation on the market, the greedy community who can only answer you with "Well deal with it and shut up and go grind your wood". There's also the obvious exploits around towns, the shitty alignement system, name them all.
So many things Aventurine has yet to fix and it won't get fixed for a while longer, which is why I hope to stop temporarily only. I mean, let's be honest, the game is awesome, but it does have many issues and if you say the game is perfectly fine, you are insane.
Oh well, it was fun while it last and hopefully AV will listen to some of the many great suggestions on the forum to fix the game. For now I'll be looking for a new game kill time.
Comments
Criticism leads to improvement, always.
Just like in SWG right?
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
I agree w/ knifo. Find another easier game whiners, Darkfall has long term character progression, deal with it like everyone else or GTFO.
btw 70 str = 35 HP and about 7 extra damage per hit. I've been playing since 2 week after release and I don't have 100 str yet and I play all the time.
this whole post is pretty dumb b/c stats already gain faster for newer players and any reasons as to why is pure speculation. Some say after your skill reaches 100 you don't gain stats as fast in that skill, others say its when you reach certain number of stat points.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Going to mimic another post and say I love DF the way it is too. I am a noob and if you other noobs keep crying about stats and how you get your ass kicked because you only play 5 hours a week..... Darkfall does not seem to be the game for you. Why try to change what others like.
No one expect DF to make a million subs. 250k seems to be what everyone expects. Let the niche have its niche game.
edited for typos and comment on bag space: infinite storage capabilities in your bank (as far as im aware of) and I do mean infinite. You want 250 plate breast plates? You got em. You want all types of harvestables in an individual bag, you got it. You want all their subcombines in their own unique bags... got that too. You want to stack up these 20 bags on top of each other so they only take up one bag slot in your bank? Yep, got that too. Fking Brilliant.
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
You are wrong as EVE is Sandbox. You can do whatever you want. Darkfall is a mixture of Sandbox and normal MMORPG. This game exist all around of pvp. The problem for most people is that they have to grind so much before they actually can start to pvp. Everything before is peanuts except if you are damn lucky to find a player on your skill / stats level.
In EvE first you are in a safe zone, where you can increase your skills and decide yourself when you are ready to go outside and play with bad boys. In Darkfall this isnt the case. Its ok there are griefers but as long you dont join any clan thats not a problem.
My opinion is that AV has to open DF to greater mass otherwise it will end same way as Shadowbane did it and i dont want it to happen as i like the pvp. Im living in Sunthrone just for info to all these carebears.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
A good post, and i certainly understand what you are saying.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide? EVE has several layers of content that the player can chew upon before even taking the plunge to 0.0. Hell, you know quite well that it doesn't even require you to engage in any PVP whatsoever. I have a friend that plays "supply broker" there for 2 years, and he rarely, if ever, undocks.
DFO does not have this advantage. It caters to a very small population, and does not provide a good experience to most gaming styles out there. This is the issue, I think.
DFO caters to the PVPer, and not much else. Thus, it needs a better growth curve to accommodate both veterans and newbies alike. It can be done without dumbing down the game, and I believe no one wants this.
Aventurine has shown signs that they want to open up the game to a wider gamut of players (such as PVE changes, 'fluff" items as housing and a more sensible skill progression). The game is not as "hardcore" as it once was, and the sky didn't fell down; quite the contrary, more people got into the game.
I repeat: making the game a better experience is NOT dumbing it down.
This is true to a point. "Better experience" is very subjective. What makes some players giggle with glee will piss off others. Every MMO I've ever played for any extended time has wrestled with this issue.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Still can't see why having to workout your skills and stats in an MMORPG is called in every case a "grind".
RPG basics you have a newbie char and start walking in an strange new world, you gain skill and learn to know with every game session and you grow up and become stronger with time. That is MMORPG basics.
Having a well trained char from the get go and just PvP for the sake of PvP is called shooter, CS and others offer that.
That is what bottom line comes to IMO. It reminds me those whiners in SWG who wanted to become Jedi handed without them investing anything and i don't want to be reminded to the NGE.
If they raise the stat gain they have to invent something else maybe new hard to get skills to become an MMORPG again.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
The problem is that majority of people willing to pay for that game think like me, not like you.
Considering how small the market for full loot pvp MMORPG is, AV will take steps to make their game attractive for that small majority, minority is not enough to support this game.
CCP and EVE prove your assertion is incorrect, a PVP game can bring in 300K subs or so, which is more than enough to keep AV going I'm thinking.
Not every game has to appeal to the mass market. There's nothing wrong in having games like DFO which require a player to 'pay their dues' as it were, and part of the fun is overcoming the challenge this sort of world provides.
MMORPG's are about progression, and players who'd put in the effort get greater rewards (for everyone else, there's FPS'ers)
Now perhaps what many people would really like is a good MMOFPS which there is a real shortage of right now, but that isn't what DFO is nor should players expect it to be.
You are wrong as EVE is Sandbox. You can do whatever you want. Darkfall is a mixture of Sandbox and normal MMORPG. This game exist all around of pvp. The problem for most people is that they have to grind so much before they actually can start to pvp. Everything before is peanuts except if you are damn lucky to find a player on your skill / stats level.
In EvE first you are in a safe zone, where you can increase your skills and decide yourself when you are ready to go outside and play with bad boys. In Darkfall this isnt the case. Its ok there are griefers but as long you dont join any clan thats not a problem.
My opinion is that AV has to open DF to greater mass otherwise it will end same way as Shadowbane did it and i dont want it to happen as i like the pvp. Im living in Sunthrone just for info to all these carebears.
I'll agree with you that EVE has a safer zone where players are free to learn the game basics w/o being killed on every corner as tends to be the case more so in DFO. Its one reason why I play EVE vs DFO.
But, the important thing is that the current player base enjoys the game for what it is today. Historically games that have tried to alter their core game mechanics (DAOC, UO, and surely SWG) have driven off the core player base while not picking up more players to replace all of them.
CCP is one of the few companies to avoid this problem by making sure its core game play is basically the same as it was 5 years ago when it launched, and they have slowly grown the game by convincing the new player base to give it a try where they then find out they actually like the game as designed.
DFO could probably stand to add some safe zones for new players, or maybe make them unkillable for their first month then the gloves come off. But even suggestions like this will upset many of the current player base and nothing like this should be added w/o careful thought.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A good post, and i certainly understand what you are saying.
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide? EVE has several layers of content that the player can chew upon before even taking the plunge to 0.0. Hell, you know quite well that it doesn't even require you to engage in any PVP whatsoever. I have a friend that plays "supply broker" there for 2 years, and he rarely, if ever, undocks.
DFO does not have this advantage. It caters to a very small population, and does not provide a good experience to most gaming styles out there. This is the issue, I think.
DFO caters to the PVPer, and not much else. Thus, it needs a better growth curve to accommodate both veterans and newbies alike. It can be done without dumbing down the game, and I believe no one wants this.
Aventurine has shown signs that they want to open up the game to a wider gamut of players (such as PVE changes, 'fluff" items as housing and a more sensible skill progression). The game is not as "hardcore" as it once was, and the sky didn't fell down; quite the contrary, more people got into the game.
I repeat: making the game a better experience is NOT dumbing it down.
Never said changing the game experience was dumbing things down, but they can certainly ruin it for the current players who enjoy the game for what it is at this moment. It is my opinion that companies who try to do this generally fail in almost every case (DAOC with the TOA expansion, SWG with the NGE etc)
For better or worse, DFO positioned itself as a hardcore, FFA looting full on PVP game, and they probably would do themselves a disservice if they attempted to move too far from the model.
At EVE's core is the real time skill training and countless people have called for CCP to change this (which they tweaked in some minor ways) but for the most part they've resisted. There's also been calls to remove things like suicide ganking in empire space, changing gate camp mechanics to make it easier to get through, prevention of can flipping in empire, and even calls to prevent scamming of players which is a legitimate tactic. CCP has resisted all of this and kept the game a fairly hardcore experience.
IMO, Aventurine should be very careful when trying to broaden DFO's appeal and always make sure they don't abandoned their core playerbase, otherwise their likely to end up with nothing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However, what is the future of a game where the gap between veterans and newbies is so wide?
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there.
Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time.
Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly.
From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ummm....3 months of playing day in and day out hardcore (6-8 hours a day everyday of the week) yes maybe but not as a casual player. Fact is to be honest the grind in DF is very hardcore. First there is the stat gap and then the skill points gap for weapons, weapons skills, spells, overall spell schools, stamina, sprinting, riding, jumping to cover on top of understanding the game mechanics. 3 months if you play like a average person will mean that you are only just being able to take on medium mob spawns if you min/max your stats and skill points and grind hardcore on these areas. This involves maxing out your harvesting skills to take advantage of the fact that they grant a lot to certain stat points and provide a lot reagents for spells. For example I went hardcore and got my herb gathering skill to 100 which is the cap and my herb mastery to about 89 points(100 is the cap for this mastery). In total I raised my wisdom all the way form 25 points to about 39 points and my intelligence from 21 to about 28 points. This was basically harvesting like a made man for about 10+ hours a day in 2 half days.
PVP in DFO is a lot harder to get competitive in unless you are part a very large group and only then you'll probably be sniping with a bow but you will not be competive in 1v1 pvp in DF.
Unlike in EVE were I can be helpful in just under a 2 weeks with the right build which has me being a tackler for a fleet and allows me to run level 1 and 2 missions for ISK generation and pvp'ing solo if I like in 3 months again with the right skills and knowledge of the game. In DFO you wont be doing anything pvp wise in the same time frame except being a notch on some other players belt. PVE wise you are going to kill goblins until your eyes bleed. The only area where this is not true is in naval combat where you can man a cannon because that is the only pvp part of the game that does not require stat or skill points.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
There are a handful of guys who have max vital in DF on the NA server. Even with 400 health that is a huge advantage in PvP let alone all the other skills, spells and stats which are going to be just as high compared to a new player. This isn't even mentioning their better gear and food buffs, access to better potions, etc..
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
What game has less of a gap between newbies and veterans? Starting chars have around 200 hps, maxed out hp chars that don't even exist yet will have 450 hps.
In what pvp mmorpg does a max level/developed char have less than 125% more HPs more than a newly created character? Oh thats right, NO GAME! Quit your crying and find another game that is easier for you if you can't handle developing your char like everyone else.
They have already killed all the long term progression besides stats, what more do you lazy whiners want so Darkfall can be easier for you?
I have to agree with this post. I think DFO is far more balanced than many other level based games out there.
Right now I'm currently playing Aion, and just today I was in a raid of about 25 players in the level 25-35 range and we went through a rift into pigeon territory and just 2 level 50 players cut through us like scythe and killed every one of us and there was nothing we could do to fight back. I'm suspecting a pack of 25 newer players in DFO would cause real havoc if they ran across two players who'd been in the game for a long time.
Of course, in Aion you can play about 20 levels w/o ever running into PVP (and I'm really learning to hate this) but overall I think DF does a decent job of getting players into the core of the action pretty quickly.
From what I have read, looks like about 3 months of reasonable playtime will get a person to a competitive level, and compared to EVE, that's pretty good. Yes, I know, you can tackle in the first week in EVE, but most players don't really head out to the wilds of 0.0 until they have 3-6 months under their belts.
Ummm....3 months of playing day in and day out hardcore (6-8 hours a day everyday of the week) yes maybe but not as a casual player. Fact is to be honest the grind in DF is very hardcore. First there is the stat gap and then the skill points gap for weapons, weapons skills, spells, overall spell schools, stamina, sprinting, riding, jumping to cover on top of understanding the game mechanics. 3 months if you play like a average person will mean that you are only just being able to take on medium mob spawns if you min/max your stats and skill points and grind hardcore on these areas. This involves maxing out your harvesting skills to take advantage of the fact that they grant a lot to certain stat points and provide a lot reagents for spells. For example I went hardcore and got my herb gathering skill to 100 which is the cap and my herb mastery to about 89 points(100 is the cap for this mastery). In total I raised my wisdom all the way form 25 points to about 39 points and my intelligence from 21 to about 28 points. This was basically harvesting like a made man for about 10+ hours a day in 2 half days.
PVP in DFO is a lot harder to get competitive in unless you are part a very large group and only then you'll probably be sniping with a bow but you will not be competive in 1v1 pvp in DF.
Unlike in EVE were I can be helpful in just under a 2 weeks with the right build which has me being a tackler for a fleet and allows me to run level 1 and 2 missions for ISK generation and pvp'ing solo if I like in 3 months again with the right skills and knowledge of the game. In DFO you wont be doing anything pvp wise in the same time frame except being a notch on some other players belt. PVE wise you are going to kill goblins until your eyes bleed. The only area where this is not true is in naval combat where you can man a cannon because that is the only pvp part of the game that does not require stat or skill points.
3 months and you can only kill medium spawns? That is pretty bad.
I didn't kill goblins beyond my first two days in game. You seriously killed goblins till your eyes bled? That is pretty funny b/c they have such horrible loot and probably the worst mob to farm considering their difficulty vs loot. I went straight from goblins to med-high mobs, using terrain like trees and rocks to provide some cover from projectiles. Hell I killed a dark dragon solo in my first month, it took me 2 hours of mana missle but I did it. totally not worth it tho, loot sucked at the time for that mob.
to be blunt, my advice to you is to stop sucking, gathering is nowhere near as fast in raising stats as combat skills used against mobs and nobody gathers for regs, thats just a side benefit. Wisdom is only good for crafting really. You should have seen how slowly skills raised before, it would take an entire day hitting something non-stop just to get 50 weapon skill.
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
not really true, its just that most players want to do the same thing. I know of a guy who plays as a healer/support class. You do what you want in DFO and your role is defined by the gear and abilities you use. You can't be healer or mage in full plate and you will be asking to die if you play as an archer or melee person in light armor. Melee is more situational than a pure role, i know, but it does have its uses and some players do play as pure melee although they really show pull out a bow when being kited in 1v1.
I know PVE can be boring and monotonous farming the same thing all day but at least its somewhat challenging. PVE has always been pretty boring for me in any mmo anyway. I like to think of the PVE in Darkfall as a just another resource to be farmed b/c I agree its not the main attraction in DFO. The AI is actually the best ive seen tho. Mobs can predict where you are going to be based on your direction and they can hit you with a slow moving projectile from very far away, its pretty incredible.
I love the feeling that progression never stops, somehow games get boring for me once I can't progress anymore. You should know that DFO wasn't set up for skill cap and I don't believe they ever promised that. Fortunately they decided not to implement skill decay, another wise decision. You complain about grind and then want skill decay which would make the grind even worse. I don't get that.
grinding on mobs does nothing but raise your stats? it doesn't give you income?
right now im watching a movie while clicking on a node every 10 mins, such a horrible grind
,
Darkfall is not rpg at all currently. Grinding on mobs affect nothing else then raising your stats so its boring. Im all for a progression, but when the game like DF is base on pvp, 1 to 3 months would had been good for anyone. When i say its not an rpg, at the end, all the characters end up being the same too.
There is those who dont want to stop progressing and because of that, AV made the grind in a way that you have the feeling that the progression never stop. Well, this is bad because with that, the grind is just too huge. What they had to do is adding the progression system they promised to us. Just like the old UO. soft cap, decay and a toggle raise, decay and pause system on each skills of the game so you dont accidentally raise something you dont want.
Then, if you are sick of being build as a warrior, you could just switch up on mage by downgrading your warrior ability and go mage. You would also be able to be an hybrid type, but would be limited in some parts too.
But no, the hardcore fans AKA the vets ruined all of that. They didnt want all their hard work aka their macroing work to vanish so the devs decided to drop that idea. So there is no cap, (well a cap of 110 on each stats, but no one could reach that anyway)
Now, the DF progression on pve is exacly like runescape. You can max anything and the more you learn, the slower you will learn new stuff exactly like how runescape is. The different is that even if RS sux, only reason why ppl dont complain about the grind is because Runescape is more a pve game then a pvp game. There is pvp focus too, but pve is already a huge part with load of quests and stories. So pve players dont complain because they enjoy all the aspect of the game and not only the pvp aspect if you see what i mean.
not really true, its just that most players want to do the same thing. I know of a guy who plays as a healer/support class. You do what you want in DFO and your role is defined by the gear and abilities you use. You can't be healer or mage in full plate and you will be asking to die if you play as an archer or melee person in light armor. Melee is more situational than a pure role, i know, but it does have its uses and some players do play as pure melee although they really show pull out a bow when being kited in 1v1.
I know PVE can be boring and monotonous farming the same thing all day but at least its somewhat challenging. PVE has always been pretty boring for me in any mmo anyway. I like to think of the PVE in Darkfall as a just another resource to be farmed b/c I agree its not the main attraction in DFO. The AI is actually the best ive seen tho. Mobs can predict where you are going to be based on your direction and they can hit you with a slow moving projectile from very far away, its pretty incredible.
I love the feeling that progression never stops, somehow games get boring for me once I can't progress anymore. You should know that DFO wasn't set up for skill cap and I don't believe they ever promised that. Fortunately they decided not to implement skill decay, another wise decision. You complain about grind and then want skill decay which would make the grind even worse. I don't get that.
grinding on mobs does nothing but raise your stats? it doesn't give you income?
right now im watching a movie while clicking on a node every 10 mins, such a horrible grind
,
Like i said, the faq that progression never stop is not the problem. The problem is that it force all players to never stop progressing and this is not what i call freedom overall. Since when did you followed darkfall? Me, since october 08 and i readed all about it. Tasos made some bunch of promise that didnt made it into the game like the mahirim in 4 stance to run like a mount speed and thats why they got no racial mount BTW. The webside change for 2 reason. It needed a big change and to reject all the great stuff they promised to us so it can be forgotten.
Skill decay and stats decay would make DF being less of a grind because while casual gamers would find an end on progressing their characters, the hardcore players would waste their time figuring out what are the best skill and stats build to own in PVP and this is where pvp preparation over grind would get into place.
For example, in wow, you if you take a warrior class, you got 3 talent build. You want to be the best at pvp, then you do pvp arena every day and every time you get owned when you know you could win that one, you try a different build teal you think its perfect. Well, if darkfall had a cap and decay, thats how we would change our build. If this dont work, il just put those useless skill into decay mode and practice this one to see if il do better next time.
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My advice is that you learn to read and work on your reading comprehension. I never said I played the game for 3 months as I was commenting on the post I quoted which used 3 months as measurement for player to become proficient at pvp enough to last longer then 2-3 hits by a rank 100 fireball spell.
As for you killing a dragon using just mana missle (the weakest damage spell skill in the game) well sorry I don't believe it. Then again you mentioned you played during the first month so probably the dragon bugged out hence your mana missile victory or you are just flat out lying. Anyways your experience is that of someone who seems to be playing (or played) the game at a hardcore level and probably bugged out mobs during the first month of the game. Also my comment was meant to reflect that of someone not playing like a loser 8+ hours a day, bugging out mobs, macroig and playing more at a casual pace (around 2-3 hours a day) will not see the same gains as a "hardcore player'. Thanks for proving my point for me.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
soon as they kill the only long term progression left in the game I will prob start looking for another game. I don't like it when game companys pander to babies and give them handicaps so they can compete with the really competitive players with much less effort. Thats what WoW does in the form of certain classes. A major part of the competition in PVP mmos is character development. Quit trying to kill the only long term character progression we have. 10 str = 1 damage and 5 more HP, find some more insignificant disadvantage to whine about.
Really I don't get what all the crying about grind since you can get 100 magic in 1 day when before it would take you 1-2 weeks depending on the school before. The whiners won't be happy till they are handed everything the competitive players had to work for, some of us played the game legit and spent a ridiculous amount of time developing our chars, why should we have our time wasted just because you are too lazy to put forth the effort? Why should you lazy whiners be able to compete with someone in 1v1 who has put more than 20x effort into developing their char than you? Not everyone has been playing since beta you know, its pretty stupid to say you can't pvp untill you max skills. Sometimes hitting 100 in a skill doesn't even give you a noticible difference. Many times I would test my damage on a mob when i ticked over into 50 mastery or 75 mastery and I couldn't even tell a difference in damage.
There was an article on MMORPG.com that talked about how other MMORPG games were ruined because of these whiners, They have legitimate concerns but by pandering to these vocal whiners and making the game more appealing to these whiners who didn't like long term character development, they disgruntle their player base who's competitive edge, that they worked hard for, was lost. Those people will find another game where the noobs can't compete with the pros.
Its impossible to die in 2-3 hits from a fireball even if one of them is surging.
This is a niche game for a "hardcore" pvper audience, quit trying to turn it into a game that appeals to lazy whiners. The grind isn't bad at all and if you are grinding stats or think you have to grind stats instead of playing the game normally, you are missing out on the game. Nobody ever complained about stat grind or grinding stats before they made everything else raise faster.
There will always be people at simliar levels of character progression, there is no max level to be obtained before you can pvp. I have put a ridiculous amount of time and have a much more advanced character than most but I can still only take 2 or 3 more hits more than the general population before I die. Grinding stats for a month just so you can eat one more fireball is totally not worth it. Welcome to long term character progression, deal with it or find an easier game.
Seriously, when did the RPG (role-playing game) became a synonym for level? Is there a time limit for when you stop "rpg" a little kid and start to play the game as an adult?
I honestly think the huge grind is a mistake, and it will kill this game. And stop saying we want instant gratification, we wont. All some of us ask for is to speed up the grind so more player will join Darkfall. Don't you see what is happening to this game?
Let the new players take part in the wonderful world of Agon, and don't worry about losing your precious grind. Stop role-play a little kid, and start role-play a soldier. I guess all of you grindlovers in here are equiped with weapons over R50, have full plate, have atleast Q3 enchants on your equipments, arcane rings, more than 50 k gp in your bank, thousands of each regs, 20 + horses, 10k arrows, 5 ready battlebags and more. If not,
START FUCKING GRIND FOR IT, BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING NAKED PEOPLE.
I have a medium char with 335 health, high magic, archery, mele and my bank is stacked with all that above. I'm lucky, and I can play this game as it is suppose to be played. I have my sieges, ship battles, my 20 vs 20 battles and I sometimes win my 1 vs 1. You all talk about stat grind as if that is the big issue. What I care about is the number of players in the game. Our battles have been reduced to small scale battles that can be dwarfed by a 20 min Alterac valley.
soon as they kill the only long term progression left in the game I will prob start looking for another game. I don't like it when game companys pander to babies and give them handicaps so they can compete with the really competitive players with much less effort. Thats what WoW does in the form of certain classes. A major part of the competition in PVP mmos is character development. Quit trying to kill the only long term character progression we have. 10 str = 1 damage and 5 more HP, find some more insignificant disadvantage to whine about.
Really I don't get what all the crying about grind since you can get 100 magic in 1 day when before it would take you 1-2 weeks depending on the school before. The whiners won't be happy till they are handed everything the competitive players had to work for, some of us played the game legit and spent a ridiculous amount of time developing our chars, why should we have our time wasted just because you are too lazy to put forth the effort? Why should you lazy whiners be able to compete with someone in 1v1 who has put more than 20x effort into developing their char than you? Not everyone has been playing since beta you know, its pretty stupid to say you can't pvp untill you max skills. Sometimes hitting 100 in a skill doesn't even give you a noticible difference. Many times I would test my damage on a mob when i ticked over into 50 mastery or 75 mastery and I couldn't even tell a difference in damage.
There was an article on MMORPG.com that talked about how other MMORPG games were ruined because of these whiners, They have legitimate concerns but by pandering to these vocal whiners and making the game more appealing to these whiners who didn't like long term character development, they disgruntle their player base who's competitive edge, that they worked hard for, was lost. Those people will find another game where the noobs can't compete with the pros.
Its impossible to die in 2-3 hits from a fireball even if one of them is surging.
This is a niche game for a "hardcore" pvper audience, quit trying to turn it into a game that appeals to lazy whiners. The grind isn't bad at all and if you are grinding stats or think you have to grind stats instead of playing the game normally, you are missing out on the game. Nobody ever complained about stat grind or grinding stats before they made everything else raise faster.
There will always be people at simliar levels of character progression, there is no max level to be obtained before you can pvp. I have put a ridiculous amount of time and have a much more advanced character than most but I can still only take 2 or 3 more hits more than the general population before I die. Grinding stats for a month just so you can eat one more fireball is totally not worth it. Welcome to long term character progression, deal with it or find an easier game.
Im starting to believe that all you vets that fear us to catch up in an acceptable time paced lets say between a month to 3 are all carebears.
PVE is for carebears. So you guys go raise your skills there none stop, 8 hours a day to make sure that the new comers wont catch up. What? You dont want me to be able to join the game and kill you after 3 month of play because of my player skill? You want your stats to take part?
Darkfall is the carebear world of veterans. A safe zone full of vets. Newb's cant touch them so AGON is a safe zone for vets vs the new players.
You guys are carebear because y'all in a clan. None of you travel alone. And you force us newcomers to be carebears just like you by joining a clan name new or joining any clan because you state million of time that its impossible to solo in DF since the progression is slow. DF is really a game for carebears.
You guys got so much gears that even if you die, you go back to your own vet or clan vault bank and you take out the same items million of time. Its like for vet, there is 0 penality after death since you got load of gears. A stats loss system after death if introduced would make all you vets cry like babies cuz you all carebears but you cant admit it because you guys think y'all so hardcore instead.
No. None of you are hardcore when you look exacly like the guy from make love not warcraft who raid the newb's town all day.
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Skills > Stats
Imao i cant believ how many people play for stat progression ... Too many wow players ... or what the hell is going on ... ?
First of all i want to play A GAME for FUN! And for me its pvp and its only reason. And because of broken system of DF i have to grind stats to be competative in pvp which sucks ... Though im still playing as i enjoy the game itself and i like the pvp. But i cant say how long i can keep this grind and how long it will take me to burn out and be sick and tired of this grind.
PS : For all carebears i live in Sunthrone. One of the best pvp hot spots
A lot of inc daily.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
I actually stopped DarkFall too (temporarily I hope).
So many things in DarkFall that I would love to try but it's only accessible by the strongest guild..... it's come to the point where it's annoying. I mean, let's be honest, small guilds can hardly survive nor access the "end-game". Alright you can get a Ship, but you lack the manpower to use all the cannons and the extra members to heal or repair ship while your enemy is coming your way with a Ship-Of-The-Line, 30 players shooting cannon balls at you, 50 players throwing nukes at you, etc.
Then there's the crafting where you can't craft important items (Astrolabe, Orb of Might, etc) .....the crazy inflation on the market, the greedy community who can only answer you with "Well deal with it and shut up and go grind your wood". There's also the obvious exploits around towns, the shitty alignement system, name them all.
So many things Aventurine has yet to fix and it won't get fixed for a while longer, which is why I hope to stop temporarily only. I mean, let's be honest, the game is awesome, but it does have many issues and if you say the game is perfectly fine, you are insane.
Oh well, it was fun while it last and hopefully AV will listen to some of the many great suggestions on the forum to fix the game. For now I'll be looking for a new game kill time.