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Let's Talk about CCP's World of Darkness...
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I just hope that they capture the brutality of the Vampire game in its first incarnation. It was a vicious setting. The WoD was a truly gritty experience.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
That's a nice opinion. I am anything but hardcore. You can hate all you want, Blizzard makes deep, timeless, highly polished games.
Blizzard has never made a deep game. Timeless, maybe, polished, yes. But since you have that opinion, I don't know why you're looking into WoD, you should be playing World of Warcraft. CCP makes very deep, complicated & hardcore games. I don't think you would like their style.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
I honestly cant remember the combat for Redemtion but as for Bloodlines I thought the combat was kinda buggy and simple. I mean the best part of Bloodlines for me wasnt the combat it was the world and the story and of course just being a crazy Malkavian vampire.
I honestly cant remember the combat for Redemtion but as for Bloodlines I thought the combat was kinda buggy and simple. I mean the best part of Bloodlines for me wasnt the combat it was the world and the story and of course just being a crazy Malkavian vampire.
Combat in Bloodlines was indeed buggy and clunky.
Combat and camera in Redemption could be better aswell.
I agree with you the world and story in Bloodlines were the best part of the game. Dialogues were also very nice, much more interesting than Bioware's games dialogues.
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I honestly cant remember the combat for Redemtion but as for Bloodlines I thought the combat was kinda buggy and simple. I mean the best part of Bloodlines for me wasnt the combat it was the world and the story and of course just being a crazy Malkavian vampire.
Combat in Bloodlines was indeed buggy and clunky.
Combat and camera in Redemption could be better aswell.
I agree with you the world and story in Bloodlines were the best part of the game. Dialogues were also very nice, much more interesting than Bioware's games dialogues.
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Agreed. Just thinking of the dialogue makes me smile a little bit especially dialogue b/w 2 Malks, now thats entertainment
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Kinda makes me want to play through the game again.
Basically, a werewolf either has sex with a wolf ( in wolf form ) or a human ( in human form ). This determines the form the werewolf feels most comfortable in. If it's born from a wolf ( lupus ), it's more used to the wolf form and more feral, if it's born from a human ( homid ), it's more human and more comfortable as a human.
If a werewolf ( or any of the changing breeds for that matter ) has sex with another, it means that a metis is produced, which is basically an extremely disfigured werewolf, and they're the outcasts of society.
http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Metis
http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Garou - Main werewolf article.
Whoa, thanks. That's pretty interesting but totally nixes any Werewolf-Werewolf love huh...
So all, if the game launches with Vampires only, what clan would you choose?
I think Brujah or maybe Ventrue for myself.. Malkavian role players could be pretty funny... or annoying.
Nosferatu.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
That's a nice opinion. I am anything but hardcore. You can hate all you want, Blizzard makes deep, timeless, highly polished games.
Blizzard has never made a deep game. Timeless, maybe, polished, yes. But since you have that opinion, I don't know why you're looking into WoD, you should be playing World of Warcraft. CCP makes very deep, complicated & hardcore games. I don't think you would like their style.
Not a big deal that we don't agree, but I find WoW to be very deep and engaging. I used to play The Masquerade PnP paper game, so that's why I am looking into WoD. Anyone who says WoW is shallow and easy, is just on the bandwagon IMO. It can be deep and complex if that's what you're into.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You two should start by defining "deep" as I would be surprised if you define it in the same way.
Well, but World of Darkness is not about complication, "harcore timeconsuming" gameplay .
World if Darkness is all about the atmosphere.
All about an open and huge world but full of lore, deep characters, great storylines.
A world that feels alive, in motion, dark sexy and full of twisted but emotional bounds.
World of Darkness is not "complicated" it is deep, but intuitive, dark but full of life... and death.
It is all about immersion, horror and beauty, not the sterile beauty of the space, but beauty of earthly landscapes, bodies, clothes, sexuality, death.
Everything CCP made till now has absolute NOTHING to do with World of Darkness.
The huge spacial map used in EvE has nothing to do with the huge World that WoD would need.
World of Darkness must be a deep, alive, immersive, full of lore and storie game world and not a "hardcore" cliche.
It is silly to criticize Blizzard here as CCP never created anything able to show us that can indeed make a WoD mmorpg.
In my opinion neither Blizzard or CCP can do it.
Well, but World of Darkness is not about complication, "harcore timeconsuming" gameplay .
World if Darkness is all about the atmosphere.
All about an open and huge world but full of lore, deep characters, great storylines.
A world that feels alive, in motion, dark sexy and full of twisted but emotional bounds.
World of Darkness is not "complicated" it is deep, but intuitive, dark but full of life... and death.
It is all about immersion, horror and beauty, not the sterile beauty of the space, but beauty of earthly landscapes, bodies, clothes, sexuality, death.
Everything CCP made till now has absolute NOTHING to do with World of Darkness.
The huge spacial map used in EvE has nothing to do with the huge World that WoD would need.
World of Darkness must be a deep, alive, immersive, full of lore and storie game world and not a "hardcore" cliche.
It is silly to criticize Blizzard here as CCP never created anything able to show us that can indeed make a WoD mmorpg.
In my opinion neither Blizzard or CCP can do it.
Blizzard mmo is the only one I know with the deepest lore and ever changing story. I was surprised they killed off illidan and now Arthas. How can you get more deep lore then that?
I'll hate to doom CCP already but I am also scared they are doing it. They lack so much experience and I've been hoping for a urban paranormal mmo ever sence reading the Jim butcher dresden file series.
--
"Any free people have the right to choose how it wants to be govern thats the essence of democracy. It's sad when America has chosen for the stability and consistency of a dictatorship and doing it democratically" -utnow
I'm eagerly awaiting some actual information on this project.
I'd like to think that CCP are aware of their success with EVE Online and are willing to take a few risks with WoD and stray away from the cookie cutter template that we see in the majority of MMOs today.
I've been hoping for the same.
Especially because I really like World of Darkness and Vampire the Masquerade.
Unfortunatelly you will probably see a lot of people around here expecting something similar to Darkfall, UO, EvE, when all these games and theirs devs philosophy have absolute no similarities to what a World of Darkness game should be.
CCP never showed they can create interesting storylines (forget about the linearity of Bioware's games and its simplifyed morals too).
We don't even know if they have the talent to create well done and well animated characters.
A sexy, twisted, open, full of lore and dark universe, does CCP can turn something like that into a MMO?
A WoD mmorpg would need an unique art style, does CCP can do it?
EvE is a cold game more similar to a massive version of Homeworld, EvE and what people call "hardcore" MMOs here are the opposite of what World of Darkness is all about. WoD mmorpg need to be the opposite of EvE, Darkfall, MO and UO and by that I am not saying WoD should be similar to EQ,WoW, it shouldn't.
It could be worse for sure, it could be Turbine behind it...
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I consider CCP the perfect fit. It seems to me that no one had demonstrated a high priority for realism in graphics, fiction and mechanics like they have.
You want something different from the "cookie cutter template" because you just want a less casual game or because you want a real World of Darkness game?
Something "different" and less cookie cutter not necessarily has any connection to White Wolf's RPGs.
Vampire:Bloodlines is a pretty nice game but it showed it is hard to create a game based on White Worlf RPGs, even with so many issues, clunky combat and lack of balance the game was able to express a bit of the original RPG atmosphere and dialogues.
If it is hard to turn World of Darkness/Vampire Masquerade into a single player game (Troika needed to shutdown after Bloodlines) it is even harder to turn it into a MMORPG.
World of Darkness should not be the last hope of a pseudo hardcore and less casual/cookie cutter game, it need to be a World of Darkness game in the first place. It need to be unique, huge, immersive, alive, very social, full of story and lore, violent, sexy, bloody, mystic, gothic, horrorify and beautiful.
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They have stuff on their Flickr account but that's all I've seen on the game so far:
www.flickr.com/photos/ccpflickr/3992907306/sizes/o/in/set-72157613995761365/
www.flickr.com/photos/ccpflickr/3044423058/sizes/o/in/set-72157608590024199/
www.flickr.com/photos/ccpflickr/3992149207/sizes/o/in/set-72157613995761365/
From these photo's we can see they want in the WoD game:
Locations (yellow post-its)
secondhand bookstore
military surplus store
salvation army clothing store
illegal gun shop
penthouse clubs
pet store
American city: gated neighborhoods
European city: clubs, soccer hooligans
airplanes and helicopters flying overhead
opera house
dirty 7-11
huge libraries
A gay club
Old playgrounds in disrepair
End of the world cults
Trash on the streets, piling up, flies, rats, Lots of rats
Subway stops out of service and inhabited by riff raff
A large ferris wheel out of order
European city: nude beaches, soccer hooligans
American city: Gated Neighborhoods, Metal checker in every school
Hear arguments
Game mechanics/More locations? (pink post-its)
conversations overheard that lead to something
death sentences
"Times Square"
able to enter every generic building
half built houses
swimming pools
NPCs addicted to drugs while human
overgrown gothic
atheists denying everything
home for the retards lonely people (unsure)
prisons
Amish families
Underground mazes!
Theater
Kittens =^.^=
Space dragons
Home for the retards 2 crazy people
Overgrown gothic garden
Swimming pools by mansions
Underground mazes! Water pump, abandoned
Toxic waste
Archeological museum
Misc (Orange)
Identification papers
"Venice" canals
Blizzard has never made a deep game. Timeless, maybe, polished, yes. But since you have that opinion, I don't know why you're looking into WoD, you should be playing World of Warcraft. CCP makes very deep, complicated & hardcore games. I don't think you would like their style.
Not a big deal that we don't agree, but I find WoW to be very deep and engaging. I used to play The Masquerade PnP paper game, so that's why I am looking into WoD. Anyone who says WoW is shallow and easy, is just on the bandwagon IMO. It can be deep and complex if that's what you're into.
The main WoW problem it's not a dark fantasy world anymore. The game mechanic is good, but it's another Disneyland. Blizzard killed Warcraft atmosphere in WoW. That's why I stopped to play it. And CCP isn't that casual so there is a hope they will make WoD as deep and dark as it is in White Wolf RPGs.
Realism in graphics is the last detail need into a WoD game.
It can work with stylized but darker visuals.
Beside, did you ever see any "realistic" well animated and alive humanoid model created by CCP? It is a bit easier to create "realistic" galaxies and spaceships.
What is the similarity between EvE, Homeworld and complex spacial game mechanics with White Wolf's games mechanics?
You want something different from the "cookie cutter template" because you just want a less casual game or because you want a real World of Darkness game?
Something "different" and less cookie cutter not necessarily has any connection to White Wolf's RPGs.
Vampire:Bloodlines is a pretty nice game but it showed it is hard to create a game based on White Worlf RPGs, even with so many issues, clunky combat and lack of balance the game was able to express a bit of the original RPG atmosphere and dialogues.
If it is hard to turn World of Darkness/Vampire Masquerade into a single player game (Troika needed to shutdown after Bloodlines) it is even harder to turn it into a MMORPG.
World of Darkness should not be the last hope of a pseudo hardcore and less casual/cookie cutter game, it need to be a World of Darkness game in the first place. It need to be unique, huge, immersive, alive, very social, full of story and lore, violent, sexy, bloody, mystic, gothic, horrorify and beautiful.
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I wasn't implying that I wanted any sort of hardcore game experience, just something a little more innovative with regards to the game mechanics or at the very least a step away from the norm.
I'd like to see them create a sandbox game basically, this doesn't mean it has to be hardcore, does it?
Realism in graphics is the last detail need into a WoD game.
It can work with stylized but darker visuals.
Beside, did you ever see any "realistic" well animated and alive humanoid model created by CCP? It is a bit easier to create "realistic" galaxies and spaceships.
What is the similarity between EvE, Homeworld and complex spacial game mechanics with White Wolf's games mechanics?
Maybe the walk in stations will be CCP's test run on building and animating 3D humanoid models. They've been working on it for quite some time now.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Vids of EVE's "ambulation" expansion should tell you everything about how good they are with character models. As for your previous points of CCP not being able to handle story, you do realize that EVE has a fictional news feed of current events and new lore released quite often, right? EVE has enough story to write a dozen books with.
With that said, I totally endorse CCP as the right people for the job. Now I just wish I could see some sign of progress on the game.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Wold of Darkness/Vampire/Werefolf and all White Wolf RPGs are casual friendly.
W.W. games have perfect balance and are deep, but anyone can play them, they are very intuitive.
No one play Vampire the Masquerade and World of Darkness because it is hardcore. Everyone play them because of the rich lore, atmosphere and fantasic universe, beside the dark and sexy details of these games are nothing like everything CCP ever made.
I already said it, but most of you folks just want a "less casual" MMORPG and are forgetting that it has nothing to do with World of Darkness.
White Wolf RPGs are even more intuitive than D&D, the great thing about Vampires, Mages and Werewolfs have nothing to do with casual vs hardcore mechanics.
Realism in graphics is the last detail need into a WoD game.
It can work with stylized but darker visuals.
Beside, did you ever see any "realistic" well animated and alive humanoid model created by CCP? It is a bit easier to create "realistic" galaxies and spaceships.
What is the similarity between EvE, Homeworld and complex spacial game mechanics with White Wolf's games mechanics?
Maybe the walk in stations will be CCP's test run on building and animating 3D humanoid models. They've been working on it for quite some time now.
more than likely DUST514 would be a more accurate basis for that, there is a trailer too.. when and if the walking in stations occurs.. i dont know.. its an interesting concept but im not sure what purpose it would actually serve...
Vids of EVE's "ambulation" expansion should tell you everything about how good they are with character models. As for your previous points of CCP not being able to handle story, you do realize that EVE has a fictional news feed of current events and new lore released quite often, right? EVE has enough story to write a dozen books with.
With that said, I totally endorse CCP as the right people for the job. Now I just wish I could see some sign of progress on the game.
Yes I know EvE has has story on it.
If you read my posts I even said that Bioware and its kind of storytelling would not work in a White Wolf universe.
CCP, Blizzard, SOE, Arena Net, Bioware all their games have a lot of story, this is not my point. My point is I belive they are not able to portrait the kind of storytelling needed on a WoD game, especially in a MMORPG.
Troika was able to do it somehow, but failed in most of the mechanics behind the game.
The "ambulation" expansion didn't show they are able to create a huge and alive urban universe full of animated and exotic models, sorry.
There is no such thing as a "casual" pen and paper game player. You either play them, or you don't. I fall in the latter category and think LARPers deserve to be hunted, but I respect the settings of rulesets of PnP games... not the act of it though. I think you'll find that everyone else is in the same boat. They either do it, or think it's dumb - no in-between.
Lets not apply the words "casual/hardcore" where they do not apply from now on please.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Vids of EVE's "ambulation" expansion should tell you everything about how good they are with character models. As for your previous points of CCP not being able to handle story, you do realize that EVE has a fictional news feed of current events and new lore released quite often, right? EVE has enough story to write a dozen books with.
With that said, I totally endorse CCP as the right people for the job. Now I just wish I could see some sign of progress on the game.
Yes I know EvE has has story on it.
If you read my posts I even said that Bioware and its kind of storytelling would not work in a White Wolf universe.
CCP, Blizzard, SOE, Arena Net, Bioware all their games have a lot of story, this is not my point. My point is I belive they are not able to portrait the kind of storytelling needed on a WoD game, especially in a MMORPG.
Troika was able to do it somehow, but failed in most of the mechanics behind the game.
The "ambulation" expansion didn't show they are able to create a huge and alive urban universe full of animated and exotic models, sorry.
So which company lives up to your high standards?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.