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This is why we cant have nice things: Alganon Review...
bluebawles
Member Posts: 117
Ladies and gentlemen of the Fora'
I glanced the way of MMORPGs newest review and saw a 5.8 rating for Alganon
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/388/view/news/read/16257/Alganon-Alganon-Review.html
So are you telling me that an alpha version of a clone of WoW that constantly crashes, plenty of bugs and 1/4 the content WoW had at release received almost the same score as Darkfall Online (6.0)?
I mean even at the time of the DF review it had a solid game engine, did not crash, very very few bugs, the graphics were/are much better, the features:
Role-playing, strategy, and shooter action in a MMOGThe largest handcrafted online world of its kind.Over 10 thousand concurrent players per game world.The largest MMORPG battles ever - involving thousands.Ultimate PvP action, the #1 choice of top players and clans.Seamless, zoneless, non-instanced world. No invisible walls.No safe zones. Full loot. PvP everywhere with accountability.No more leveling. Improve the skills you use.Fight on mounts, ships, man cannons and vehicles.Siege and conquer cities, build and protect your own.Craft any item in the world and put your name on it, Personal Housing, Trade routes etc etc etc
I understand most of the piece written is personal opinion, and as such should not matter much....but it does to anyone willing to try the game
And you guys at MMORPG.com write about "innovation" or "breath of fresh air" and give these kind of scores?
Time for a re-review of Darkfall guys, and get someone competent to do this (aka a PVPer)
Comments
Alganon and DF are so completly different games, that I don't think you can even remotely compare them to each other, and thus neither their ratings. You can only wonder if the rating by itself of the specific game was fair or not.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I agree with OP.
It seems theres lots of blogs and posts on MMORPG.com about breaking the mold, trying new things ect.
And when a game does it you give it crap scores.
I play all ghame
DF has a 6.0 for a reason. It is due to the fact that the masses all agree it is a sub par game. Just becuase a few people like something doesn't mean it is good it means those few people have bad taste, whereas, when you have a larger mass of individuals that agree something is bad then it is generally bad. Just sayin.
I can understand that it is difficult to compare the scores of these two games, however I find it insane that Darkfall carries such a low score. If that score didn't stop people from trying the game no one would care, but unfortunately I think it's holding back quite a few. If I thought it deserved such a low score, I know I wouldn't be playing.
Common sense would dictate that the reviewer would also need to have experience in and enjoy this type of game. Someone coming directly from games like WOW, LOTRO, AOC, AION, or whatever are obviously not going to appreciate what this game has to offer. If I wanted a good scoop on that wicked new restaurant that everyone won't stop talking about, I'm not going to send in a Vegan to do the review.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This is completely subjective on your part. I am a fan of FFA PvP games, I played Asherons Call Darktide for over two years and was by far my best MMORPG experience ever.
I played UO, pre trammel, and was my second best MMORPG experience ever.
I am playing Eve and think it is the best current sandbox FFA PvP MMORPG.
I played Darkfall, at launch, and thought it was ugly, buggy, easy to gank and abuse environment, easy to hack, severly lacking in content and one of the worst MMORPG UI I have ever seen.
So please, dont claim Darkfall deserves a good rate just because it is a sandbox FFA PvP game, that is far from enough to be a good MMORPG. AC DT was a good FFA PvP game, so was UO pre-trammel (for their time) and Eve is a good FFA PvP game. Darkfall is not, or atleast was not when it was launched. It was a horrible mess.
Possibly that may have changed now, I dont know, but I had such a bad experience from playing it that I cant bring myself to resubscribe. It was that bad, at launch.
This is completely subjective on your part. I am a fan of FFA PvP games, I played Asherons Call Darktide for over two years and was by far my best MMORPG experience ever.
I played UO, pre trammel, and was my second best MMORPG experience ever.
I am playing Eve and think it is the best current sandbox FFA PvP MMORPG.
I played Darkfall, at launch, and thought it was ugly, buggy, easy to gank and abuse environment, easy to hack, severly lacking in content and one of the worst MMORPG UI I have ever seen.
So please, dont claim Darkfall deserves a good rate just because it is a sandbox FFA PvP game, that is far from enough to be a good MMORPG. AC DT was a good FFA PvP game, so was UO pre-trammel (for their time) and Eve is a good FFA PvP game. Darkfall is not, or atleast was not when it was launched. It was a horrible mess.
Possibly that may have changed now, I dont know, but I had such a bad experience from playing it that I cant bring myself to resubscribe. It was that bad, at launch.
You played Darktide 2 years oh big whoop
Let me tell you the 3 things that made DT: dungeon controll (good) godmode (a bug in the cast system that they removed early = bad) and fastcast (a bug in the cast system they never found a way to fix so its not intentional that its still ig 11 years later)
And that's DT for ya. Yes that's what made Darktide the pvp god server everyone raves about: 1 good thing and two mistakes, thrilling huh
I played from 2000 to 2004 on DT and white servers. Darkfall is far superior as a pvp game and sandbox even tho i loved AC more, that should not get in the way of me logically figuring out which one is better.
good day
This is completely subjective on your part. I am a fan of FFA PvP games, I played Asherons Call Darktide for over two years and was by far my best MMORPG experience ever.
I played UO, pre trammel, and was my second best MMORPG experience ever.
I am playing Eve and think it is the best current sandbox FFA PvP MMORPG.
I played Darkfall, at launch, and thought it was ugly, buggy, easy to gank and abuse environment, easy to hack, severly lacking in content and one of the worst MMORPG UI I have ever seen.
So please, dont claim Darkfall deserves a good rate just because it is a sandbox FFA PvP game, that is far from enough to be a good MMORPG. AC DT was a good FFA PvP game, so was UO pre-trammel (for their time) and Eve is a good FFA PvP game. Darkfall is not, or atleast was not when it was launched. It was a horrible mess.
Possibly that may have changed now, I dont know, but I had such a bad experience from playing it that I cant bring myself to resubscribe. It was that bad, at launch.
yes because every game is perfect at launch, please go look at eve at launch your opinion does not matter for the current state of Darkfall, which deserves a least 7.5+. Since everything you QQ'd about was pretty much fixed and they are continuing to add content so please, if you don't play the game in it's CURRENT state then don't voice your opinion since we are asking for a re-review of how it is NOW not LAST YEAR.
Reviews are opinions. I would refer to my previous post about a re-review for a lengthy thread about the poor rating of DFO.
5.8 is lower than 6.0 so I don't really understand your point. DFO at launch is better than Alganon and the ratings reflect that.
Ok, there are a few things wrong here, and I'm going to do my best to clear things up.
First of all, the section of your post I have quoted really gets to the heart of the problem. When we review and score a game, we have to look at it from the perspective of "joe average gamer" and while the text of the reviews often reflect the fact that a game may have been developed with a niche audience in mind, the score has to take into account the tastes of the average.
In the specific case of our first Darkfall review, I thought that the reviewer did a great job of explaining that Darkfall was a game created for a niche audience. He even stated that while he was no longer a member of that niche, that he once was and came at the article from that perspective. In short, he was a PvPer.
But for us to actively look for someone who fits directly and easily into the niche of a game like this would be just as irresponsible and biased of as as if we were to get someone to review the game who hated PvP and never engaged in it within the confines of less harsh games. In both cases, one point of view would be so over-represented as to make the review biased and useless to the average gamer.
Reviews are very subjective things. We'll put aside the fact that the reviews in question were written and scored by two completely different people and concentrate instead on what was said in them. Review are not, and should not be a simple regurgitation of scores. Reviews are, in actuality, about the rationale behind the scores. The reasons that, for example, Alganon got a 5.8 and Darkfall got a 6.0 are vastly different. In reviews as in all things, context is key.
Now, with all of that being said, we have a loose policy of wanting to look at an MMO again a year after its initial review. Of course we're looking for someone to take another look at Darkfall, just don't expect us to use someone whose gaming experience is defined by hardcore PvP any more than we're going to use someone who will hate a game just because it has PvP.
Anyway, I hope that clears things up for you.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Arguments over scores are quite often just plain silly, they get used as comparisons when they shouldn't., at least not witthout reading the entire review.
If comparisons should be drawn at all it should be from the opinions the reviewer expressed, which is of course far harder to do than compare one game's 5.8 to another's 6.0, the problem is perception, or lack of it & human nature's endless capacity to take short cuts instead of logical evaluation.
Ultimately each game is reviewed on it's merits & failings & rated by the reviewer as to how well it entertained them, & that's about all that can be done by any review, if you really need to know more a review won't cut it, go play it yourself & form your own opinion.
@OP, you like Darkfall, good for you, just because you think the Alganon tribe is much weaker than your Darkfall tribe it doesn't weaken the Darkfall tribe if the Aganon tribe got a similar score, you aren't fighting for the same members.
Darkfall has come a LONG way since launch. I have my problems with the game in its current state, but it barely resembles the nearly unplayable mess it was at launch. I also played at launch and quit within a few days. When I came back 9 months later, I was amazed at the progress they had made...
I don't think it is really fair to base your argument on how DF was at launch.
I can understand that it is difficult to compare the scores of these two games, however I find it insane that Darkfall carries such a low score. If that score didn't stop people from trying the game no one would care, but unfortunately I think it's holding back quite a few. If I thought it deserved such a low score, I know I wouldn't be playing.
Common sense would dictate that the reviewer would also need to have experience in and enjoy this type of game. Someone coming directly from games like WOW, LOTRO, AOC, AION, or whatever are obviously not going to appreciate what this game has to offer. If I wanted a good scoop on that wicked new restaurant that everyone won't stop talking about, I'm not going to send in a Vegan to do the review.
I dont know why everyone is upset DF has a user rating of 7.5 which is the rating that is shown by it on the big list of games and which is right below the rating by the site on the DF page.IMHO I dont think its that score that is "holding people back" from trying the game I think its more that most people dont want ffa pvp all the time and full loot and another thing is its been out a year on 2/26 and still no free trial I will never try this game without a trial,Fallen Earth had a trial out like 1-2 months after it released and its an indy company also(Im not going to spend upwards of $50 to try a game esp with the uncertainty that it might not be for me or I might not like it hell maybe I would but sry its not worth the risk for me)
then it would be biased, and do the mmo world a large injustice. I agree with you Darkfall does need a revisit, but perhaps wait till the "Darkfall 2010" revision. Every MMO deserves a re-review a year later, Darkfall has come a long way and I have a feeling there is alot more on the horizon.
then it would be biased, and do the mmo world a large injustice.
Why should PVEers be reviewing everything?
Would you use a financial analyst for a football review?
Or a PVPer for a PVE game review, who would complain about the linear handholding quest grinding gameplay and the lack of PVP in a PVE game, as opposed to the Ed Zitron like Darkfall reviews we have seen?
There are different kinds of mmorpgs. Let the people who know what they are about review them.
DF has a 6.0 for a reason. It is due to the fact that the masses all agree it is a sub par game. Just becuase a few people like something doesn't mean it is good it means those few people have bad taste, whereas, when you have a larger mass of individuals that agree something is bad then it is generally bad. Just sayin.
Some of the worst logic i've ever seen on these forums (and that's saying something). You realize that there's a TERRIBAD game called "World of Warcraft" that has no innovation, story as deep as a toilet bowl, and graphical engine designed for ANY computer built in the past 8yrs to run?
Just because the "masses" say it's good or bad doesn't mean it's what they say. It means that there simply are a LOT of people with the same opinion. The fact is, blizzard themselves admitted that WoW was designed for the lowest common denominator (simple minded, quest driven, linear themepark players with crap computers). WoW, being the example, has actually thrust the genre backwards by about 5yrs in terms of technology and MMO design. Ever wonder why there are so MANY bad MMO's now? It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see these consistancies and realities plagueing our market.
I'm not saying people whom play WoW are retards. I'm simply saying WoW was your first MMO (or your friends play it and you want to play with them, as in my sister's case), and you have little idea how amazing WoW's predecessors (of which WoW cloned/combined to create itself) that make the genre a breathing thing. I myself wasn't a very "in-depth" individual when I was younger before I started EQ (and then DAOC) when they both first launched. These games challenged the user, and made them actually THINK rather than "goto this LARGE red arrow and kill 10 weasels then return to sender, of which we'll point you to the ENTIRE way/time".
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
"First of all, the section of your post I have quoted really gets to the heart of the problem. When we review and score a game, we have to look at it from the perspective of "joe average gamer" and while the text of the reviews often reflect the fact that a game may have been developed with a niche audience in mind, the score has to take into account the tastes of the average."
While i thank you for the explanation, the fact that the managing editor of this site doesn't understand why that philosophy is a very bad thing is...just sad.
Reviews should be done based on the merits of the game itself and how close that game comes to the vision the developers had for it and for the audience it is trying to reach. Reviews should not be based on how much a game satisfies Joe Average player. That's wrong on so many levels i have a hard time comprehending anyone would believe that to be a good idea.
Right now the average mmorpg player can easily be defined as someone who enjoys the WoW style themepark easy leveling game. You in effect are saying that if a game doesn't cater to that type of player it will more than likely get a bad review. And this makes sense to you?
Do you send someone who enjoys Lady Gaga or Beyonce to review a punk rock concert or a polka band? No matter how good the punk or polka band is i guarantee they will get horrible reviews in that case. This is exactly what you are saying here Jon, just different subject matter.
Wow.
(pun intended)
Does Darkfall have skill caps?
Does Darkfall have grind based PvP?
Does Darkfall have interesting PvE?
Does Darkfall have innovative crafting?
Does Darkfall have a solid siege system?
I have a free Darkfall account and I can't even bring myself to play it anymore. The promise of Darkfall and what we were given were two completely different things.
I was the most hopeful follower of the game ( just check ED's article on Darkfall), and played it completely with the sad realization that Darkfall failed.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
The Darkfall fanbois have to hitch on to anything to try to get people to see the hardcore-leet-godness of their game.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
A free account you do not wish to play? Hell, don't let it goto waste. I've always wanted to try it. PM the account info;)
First, Alganon doesn't have anything to do with Darkfall (other than it's similar rating) and secondly; I do agree that Darkfall should be reviewed again; However, I disagree that someone who is a PvP'er should review the game. That just creates a biased opinion.
I played Darkfall at launch and go screwed around so much I swore I would never play it ever again. A year later I was convinced to give it another try because my friends and I needed to find another game. I can't believe how amazing Darkfall has become! This game has blown my mind and I can't imagine I will ever leave again.
It took them a year to fix their game and two full (but free) expansions before this game got to the point I was dreaming of in the first place. I am so glad I was let go of my anger with Adventurine long enough to take a second look.
Just because something is different, doesn't mean it should be granted a high score.
Different can be great just as it can be awful.
then it would be biased, and do the mmo world a large injustice.
Why should PVEers be reviewing everything?
Would you use a financial analyst for a football review?
Or a PVPer for a PVE game review, who would complain about the linear handholding quest grinding gameplay and the lack of PVP in a PVE game, as opposed to the Ed Zitron like Darkfall reviews we have seen?
There are different kinds of mmorpgs. Let the people who know what they are about review them.
Fail. No where did I say let a PVEr review it, instead pick someone with a general overview of ALL aspects of MMO. How bout a jack of all trades and master of none. It's ok you jumped to conclusions and read only what you wanted to read. There are MANY MMOers out there that enjoy PVP just as much as PVE just as much as sandbox play just as much as theme-park play.
so how is it not a biased opinion when a PvEr reviews the game? Or does your definition of non-biased mean whoever agrees with you?
so how is it not a biased opinion when a PvEr reviews the game? Or does your definition of non-biased mean whoever agrees with you?
No, I'm just saying that you should have someone who is a fan of MMORPGs not just PVP ones review the game.