It's hilarious when people start throwing around phrases like 'real gamer' as if it means anything. Playing a game, any game, makes someone a real gamer just like breathing air makes them a real air-breather.
If there's some kind of approved guidelines that isn't someone's personal opinion I've yet to see it.
If you can't feel the difference between buying something, and winning or earning something, then it can't be explained to you.
I wasn't saying there was no difference between a game that is, by the admittance of the writer of the article, designed to be extremley tedious or limited without the use of an item mall and a game developed to be complete on its own with just the monthly sub. Personally, I've tried the F2P model and every time, I'm either feeling like I'm grinding forever or ripping myself off so I don't do it anymore.
It's just that the phrase 'real gamer' sounds stupid to me without some kind of qualifier, like 'real crappy gamer' or 'real good gamer' since technically ANYONE who plays games on a daily basis is a gamer.
Some F2P models are not cash crops for companies. Look at Anet's successful Guild Wars Series. You buy the game and thats it...no monthly fees ever. They do have a game store that offers, cosmetic only costumes, inventory upgrades, character renames and cosmetic changes...but its whats absent from the GW shop thats really worth mentioning. There are NO potions, NO best weapons..NO uber armor, NO special available through cash shop only game altering Anything. You want max armor..you earn ingame money to buy it...you want elite armor..earn ingame money and the materials and get it. What the best sword the game offers? Well either get the parts and custom build yourself one , kill the boss taht drops it till you get it..or buy it off another player. Need a buff that reduces critial damage to your party....easy...earn the rep needed to access the consumables crafters in eye of the north, pay them in ingame money and items..and its yours..and guess what..the game is STILL Free to Play!
So yes while I agree that most F2P models out there are nothing more than ways to suck more money from players Some are not. I read somewhere that the average player whom plays F2P spends an average of $25 per month on cash shop items like potions and buffs. So yeah I expect more subscription MMO to go to that model cause it brings in more than subscriptions...BUT...lets remember..not all F2P models are alilke. YOU the gamer have the ultimate decsion on if the game holds your interest enough to shop that cash shop or not.
Me personally....I will stick with GW and the one F2P I do like...and continue to limit myself to no more than 10 a month in that ones shop
As i perused the GW shop, I noticed the ability to buy skill-sets. What are those? I know that sounds condecending of me, but I am actually curious about it. Are they infact skills that can only be acquired in the shop?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
WoW is the exception to the rule to a certain degree. Guilds do sell those drops also do they not?
They might vendor them - BoPs can't be sold to other players.
Besides that, I asked how much it cost to kill Arthas, since killing him is the top accomplishment in the game currently. You did say we could 'pay to win', right?
In games where currency/gold is actually an important part of the economy, you see it happen more.
Oh, in other unnamed games it's a factor. I see.
I wasn't aware that gold was worthless in WoW. Only 5,000 g for fast flying, and 20,000 for the war mammoth mount. A mere pittance.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It's just that the phrase 'real gamer' sounds stupid to me without some kind of qualifier, like 'real crappy gamer' or 'real good gamer' since technically ANYONE who plays games on a daily basis is a gamer.
Buying your rewards isn't 'playing the game'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
And then: I'm really wondering what's about all this sort of pro-F2P viral marketing that MMORPG.com is putting up with ever growing enthusiasm. Party Line now is that F2P is beautiful and players are to be indoctrinated for their own sake. This trend is getting more and more annoying. I can read and understand pro-F2P players' ideas even if I don't agree with them but there isn't a day by now that this site send us a F2P Prophet trying to enlighten the ignorant masses (we poor sobs) on the progressive destiny at our doorsteps with the final advent of F2P.
So what's up ? I start seeing the cooked meat beyond your smoke and it smells something unethical for a journalist.
I claim the right to think with my own head and have my own ideas. F2P is unfair and prone to all forms of abuse and money-milking by greedy suits and incompetent developers. And no brain-washing will have me think otherwise.
No one, and I mean no one is telling you that you HAVE TO like F2P MMOs. I'm the one making the decisions about what gets published here and I pesonally don't play F2P MMOs with any regularity. I personally prefer the subscription model. HOwever, it would be completely irresponsible of us to bury our heads in the sand about the issue. Like it or not, F2P is a growing part of the MMORPG industry. That's just how it is. It's also a hot-button issue, so OF COURSE we write about it.
Articles like this one aren't mean to convert P2P players tio the F2P model, this one in particular is here to give an inside explanation of what the F2P model is, and WHY it's growing in popularity.
Look at articles on this site, and anywhere else, for that matter, not as the gospel, but as more information to add to your knowledge. You're free to agree or disagree with any of it. We're not here to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't think. Anyone who mindlessly listens to ANY media in this day and age without adding their own context is in serious trouble.
I get that F2P is viable in Eastern markets. In fact you made some good points there. However, I am a western gamer who wants to login to a game where the exact same rules and boundaries apply to everyone. By rules and boundaries, I mean that it takes the same amount of time and effort for every player to achieve results.
I want the guy I am pvping to have spent the same amount of time getting to that point as I have. Despite some who label pvpers as only caring about pwning I want to respect my opponent for what he has accomplished so that a victory is sweeter.
I guess mutual respect is what I see missing from F2P. That's important to me.
I'm sorry, but I'm still not convinced.
you make MMo's sound boring. everyone has to spend the same amount of time doing stuff. why?
Since we've already started making car analogies let me make another to more aptly show my point of view. Warning: mind-bending fictional story follows:
Let's say John came from a humble background. He worked part-time while in High School, then worked full-time for a year after HS to create some savings before starting his path onto college. John has high aspirations and despite his only financial backing being some partial scholarships he wanted to attend . He goes on to become a successful CEO.
Joe is also a successful CEO, but he came from a wealthier background. He didn't have to work as hard to maintain grades because scholarships didn't matter. He worked satisfactorily but had much less pressure. His education along with his parent's connections helped propel him into his current CEO role.
Both John and Joe are nice guys and equally good at their job.
I have more respect for John solely based on his dedication to achieve his goals. I don't have anything against Joe but his life was funded F2P style. He doesn't share the same subjectivity as John and quite possibly feels less attachment to his job and its importance because it took much less risk to get there.
I would rather that my MMO had Johns instead of Joes.
Happy happy joy joy! Another condescending, "you must be ignorant / bigoted / delusional if you don't like F2P" article and thread.
Please, just stop already.
We get it. We know why they work for some people, we understand why they work in some markets and yet somehow we still just don't like them!
Want to know how often the topic of F2P games comes up when my various friends (both in games and RL) are talking about MMOs?? Twice in the last 10 years; once when DDO went F2P because most of us are old pen and paper D&D junkies and again this past week when LotRO went F2P. That's it, two conversations in a decade of playing and talking about games.
We don't bash them, we don't say nasty things to people about them...we just DO NOT CARE about them or want to play them.
So just because something has the "f2p" moniker doesn't automatically make it evil. If it is abused then "think" and move on. It's just another method of payment.
It is a completely different economic system that motivates the devs to sell more items, rather than make the game better.
Or it's an economic system that encourages the development of content over the complacency encouraged by P2P systems :-)
LOL! you beat me to it! I owe you a coke.
If by content you mean new shiny items for their store for you to belly up and purchase, then yes.
Subscription games the focus is on new content.
Item mall games the focus is on pumping out more items to get more people to shell out cash for em.
Some F2P models are not cash crops for companies. Look at Anet's successful Guild Wars Series. You buy the game and thats it...no monthly fees ever. They do have a game store that offers, cosmetic only costumes, inventory upgrades, character renames and cosmetic changes...but its whats absent from the GW shop thats really worth mentioning. There are NO potions, NO best weapons..NO uber armor, NO special available through cash shop only game altering Anything. You want max armor..you earn ingame money to buy it...you want elite armor..earn ingame money and the materials and get it. What the best sword the game offers? Well either get the parts and custom build yourself one , kill the boss taht drops it till you get it..or buy it off another player. Need a buff that reduces critial damage to your party....easy...earn the rep needed to access the consumables crafters in eye of the north, pay them in ingame money and items..and its yours..and guess what..the game is STILL Free to Play!
So yes while I agree that most F2P models out there are nothing more than ways to suck more money from players Some are not. I read somewhere that the average player whom plays F2P spends an average of $25 per month on cash shop items like potions and buffs. So yeah I expect more subscription MMO to go to that model cause it brings in more than subscriptions...BUT...lets remember..not all F2P models are alilke. YOU the gamer have the ultimate decsion on if the game holds your interest enough to shop that cash shop or not.
Me personally....I will stick with GW and the one F2P I do like...and continue to limit myself to no more than 10 a month in that ones shop
As i perused the GW shop, I noticed the ability to buy skill-sets. What are those? I know that sounds condecending of me, but I am actually curious about it. Are they infact skills that can only be acquired in the shop?
No, they are skills you can unlock through PvP gameplay (or PvE) on a campaign you have access to (or you can just buy the PvP unlock pack, but then you'll have no access to the PvE portion of it), that can only be used in PvP characters (they start at level 20, max gear, etc). PvE characters will need you to purchase the skill in-game from a trainer using skill points and currency.
It's just that the phrase 'real gamer' sounds stupid to me without some kind of qualifier, like 'real crappy gamer' or 'real good gamer' since technically ANYONE who plays games on a daily basis is a gamer.
Buying your rewards isn't 'playing the game'.
Yeah, that's unfactual.
Making a character and logging in and pushing buttons to use skills on monsters until they're dead is by definition playing the game, even if the person pushing the buttons to kill the monsters is usuing a stupidly unkillable character with Item Mall buffs.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
Part of fun in playing F2P is to see how far you can progress with least amount cash spent. In a way, it also provides game challenge fun.
I've played dozens of F2P for 3 yrs, and so far, $86 is all I spent in them (because only two of them are worth putting in money). My expense in playing GW is three times that. So the F2P-is-more-expensive myth just doesn't work on me.
There are good and terrible F2P's. It won't hurt just to pop a question in their forums like "is this game cash-dependent". Usually some long-time players can give you a pretty good idea of the game.
If you let a crappy F2P eats your wallet, sorry, you ain't got much a brain to pvp with in the first place.
All F2p's item malls are open for everyone to see, so there is no secret what they're selling.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue.
Yes, I know.
You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
It would help you, no doubt.
And I'll thank you in advance for my upcoming ban.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue.
Yes, I know.
You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
It would help you, no doubt.
And I'll thank you in advance for my upcoming ban.
Well he should ban himself for breaking forum rules, going off topic, personal attacks, retalliation.
There are quite a few rules he broke in his paragraph of verbal abuse.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
Really? Personal attacks from a Mod?
Extremely condescending too...
What ever happened to staying on topic?
I'm not about to go on vacation, BTW. If you don't see any of my posts for a while...well, you know what happened. It happened the last time Jon and I exchnged posts on this issue.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue.
Yes, I know.
You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
It would help you, no doubt.
And I'll thank you in advance for my upcoming ban.
Well he should ban himself for breaking forum rules, going off topic, personal attacks, retalliation.
There are quite a few rules he broke in his paragraph of verbal abuse.
Yeah, I agree. I understand that people have limits, but when you're the editor this is very unprofessional and distasteful behavior.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue.
Yes, I know.
You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
It would help you, no doubt.
And I'll thank you in advance for my upcoming ban.
Well he should ban himself for breaking forum rules, going off topic, personal attacks, retalliation.
There are quite a few rules he broke in his paragraph of verbal abuse.
We've already seen before that those who work here are above the rules.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
Nearly all gaming websites have a much higher % of F2P advertising because that's who is buying ads. The F2P target market responds more readily to flashy ads than the P2P counterparts.
P2Ps tend to only advertise when something significant changes. And when it happens they invest a large sum. AOC is a good example of this.
Edit: I agree though, that the retaliation here clearly breaks TOS.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
While I understand you are annoyed that someone might feel your site is using its blogs to promote the games that buy ad space here, it doesn't really sit well with me that you would "Attack" the people who ultimately come here and spend their time perusing these forums because they genuinely like the content here. "I wish I was as smart as you" What kind of snarky bs is that? Is this what I can expect from the managing editor of this website from now on? I am really amazed at your lack of tact and your apparent inability to be diplomatic or mature.
So in fact I ALWAYS get my $15 worth from an MMO. And no I don't ever EVER want to by items from a shop to "keep up". I'm not trying to, nor do I care to keep up with someone who puts in more time then me, and anyone who does has a warped sense of what matters in the world.
Not to mention MMOs are so easy now a days that even with casual play time you can max out your characters in a month. So there is no hurry to catch up with people.
So I don't agree with any of your logic except for the last paragraph which is spot on. I don't play MMOs that have a sub and an item shop, no matter how cosmetic those items are.
___________
I do not understand your position here Snarlingwolf,
If the above is true, why do you care about the fee structure. If the game content is good regardless of subscription method you (or I) will play and then I would assume we both got our money's worth. So item shop, F2P, whatever, does not really matter. It is just entertainment in mine and your spare time.
I could care less if lotro went F2P as it was the game was in a slow death just like DDO. It was the only way to save it.
My problem comes from no content for the past 6 months, no new content for the next 3-6 months at the end game level. Meanwhile Turbine/wb does evrything they can to get the new kid on the block while taking a dump on its vet players and basicly told us you got to sit there until around december without nothing new to do.
One thing to get new players, another thing to sacrifice almost 90% of your vet player base to do so, is the real problem.
So telling me to be ok while I watch a once great game go down the tubes, and Tubine walk lock step righ behind cryptic is what makes me sick.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
I actually liked the article and I am currently absorbed in the F2P game called "Kingdom Heroes." It has some really awesome PVP and, imo, is only rivaled by Planetside in terms of freedom.
As to your post Stradden, very unprofessional. I am not pleased to see what is becoming of MMORPG.com.
Take a look at all the ads on this site for F2P games.
Once again Doubter, you've got us. You've called us out on our conspiracy to gain ad revenue. You know all of the inner workings of this site and how we operate. It's not that we understand the trends in the industry and are following them. It's not that we have no trouble attracting advertisers regardless of the kind of content we produce. It's not that we have a number of failsafes in place internally to keep what you're constantly accusing us of doing from happening in the first place, and it's not like we've explained this to you time and time again on these forums.
Nope, you're right. It's a simple minded conspiracy. I wish I was as smart as you.
Really? Personal attacks from a Mod?
Extremely condescending too...
What ever happened to staying on topic?
Staying on topic or not, some people are just let's say it .... stupid, how long can you live up with that kind of stupidity? Sooner or later you you'll have enough of it.
If I don't know I just don't pretend to know how it works, and whenever someone explains things I'm not acting like there would be a wall between us. Those that don't want to listen are not worth the effort what it takes to explain certain things.
On the topic though, MMO genere is changing, there's less and less games with 'uber' items etc. and that's good.
The one thing that is alarming though imo is that we have far far more f2p games developed nowdays compared to p2p. I feel that soon we'll have an 'exsclusive p2p mmo club'.
I hope that we'll maintain a healthy balance between p2p and f2p becuase generally .. when I have a sub game I don't want to have cash shops and vice versa.
If this will stay like this all we will have in the future is
sub+f2p = sub/micro hybrid (so basicly our lotro, d&d style) and micro only ... as you see it lacks 'sub only'.
My probelm with cash shops is not the items they can offer but that most of the time that type of games are far far more expensive then those only with subscription. It's always so tempting to buy all those 'meaningless' things (you know, character slots, quests, bag slots, special mounts - not really game braking things) yet they're making the gameplay so much nicer.
Comments
I wasn't saying there was no difference between a game that is, by the admittance of the writer of the article, designed to be extremley tedious or limited without the use of an item mall and a game developed to be complete on its own with just the monthly sub. Personally, I've tried the F2P model and every time, I'm either feeling like I'm grinding forever or ripping myself off so I don't do it anymore.
It's just that the phrase 'real gamer' sounds stupid to me without some kind of qualifier, like 'real crappy gamer' or 'real good gamer' since technically ANYONE who plays games on a daily basis is a gamer.
As i perused the GW shop, I noticed the ability to buy skill-sets. What are those? I know that sounds condecending of me, but I am actually curious about it. Are they infact skills that can only be acquired in the shop?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Oh, in other unnamed games it's a factor. I see.
I wasn't aware that gold was worthless in WoW. Only 5,000 g for fast flying, and 20,000 for the war mammoth mount. A mere pittance.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Buying your rewards isn't 'playing the game'.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No one, and I mean no one is telling you that you HAVE TO like F2P MMOs. I'm the one making the decisions about what gets published here and I pesonally don't play F2P MMOs with any regularity. I personally prefer the subscription model. HOwever, it would be completely irresponsible of us to bury our heads in the sand about the issue. Like it or not, F2P is a growing part of the MMORPG industry. That's just how it is. It's also a hot-button issue, so OF COURSE we write about it.
Articles like this one aren't mean to convert P2P players tio the F2P model, this one in particular is here to give an inside explanation of what the F2P model is, and WHY it's growing in popularity.
Look at articles on this site, and anywhere else, for that matter, not as the gospel, but as more information to add to your knowledge. You're free to agree or disagree with any of it. We're not here to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't think. Anyone who mindlessly listens to ANY media in this day and age without adding their own context is in serious trouble.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Since we've already started making car analogies let me make another to more aptly show my point of view. Warning: mind-bending fictional story follows:
Let's say John came from a humble background. He worked part-time while in High School, then worked full-time for a year after HS to create some savings before starting his path onto college. John has high aspirations and despite his only financial backing being some partial scholarships he wanted to attend . He goes on to become a successful CEO.
Joe is also a successful CEO, but he came from a wealthier background. He didn't have to work as hard to maintain grades because scholarships didn't matter. He worked satisfactorily but had much less pressure. His education along with his parent's connections helped propel him into his current CEO role.
Both John and Joe are nice guys and equally good at their job.
I have more respect for John solely based on his dedication to achieve his goals. I don't have anything against Joe but his life was funded F2P style. He doesn't share the same subjectivity as John and quite possibly feels less attachment to his job and its importance because it took much less risk to get there.
I would rather that my MMO had Johns instead of Joes.
I'm not fimiliar with WoW as i've never played, but i'm on vent with 30 or 40 that do so i stand corrected if i'm wrong.
But how is BOP not sellable when you can just have the buyer in your alliance to roll on gear that they paid for?
Happy happy joy joy! Another condescending, "you must be ignorant / bigoted / delusional if you don't like F2P" article and thread.
Please, just stop already.
We get it. We know why they work for some people, we understand why they work in some markets and yet somehow we still just don't like them!
Want to know how often the topic of F2P games comes up when my various friends (both in games and RL) are talking about MMOs?? Twice in the last 10 years; once when DDO went F2P because most of us are old pen and paper D&D junkies and again this past week when LotRO went F2P. That's it, two conversations in a decade of playing and talking about games.
We don't bash them, we don't say nasty things to people about them...we just DO NOT CARE about them or want to play them.
If by content you mean new shiny items for their store for you to belly up and purchase, then yes.
Subscription games the focus is on new content.
Item mall games the focus is on pumping out more items to get more people to shell out cash for em.
No, they are skills you can unlock through PvP gameplay (or PvE) on a campaign you have access to (or you can just buy the PvP unlock pack, but then you'll have no access to the PvE portion of it), that can only be used in PvP characters (they start at level 20, max gear, etc). PvE characters will need you to purchase the skill in-game from a trainer using skill points and currency.
Yeah, that's unfactual.
Making a character and logging in and pushing buttons to use skills on monsters until they're dead is by definition playing the game, even if the person pushing the buttons to kill the monsters is usuing a stupidly unkillable character with Item Mall buffs.
I don't understand this. Can you re-phrase it?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Really? Personal attacks from a Mod?
Extremely condescending too...
What ever happened to staying on topic?
Part of fun in playing F2P is to see how far you can progress with least amount cash spent. In a way, it also provides game challenge fun.
I've played dozens of F2P for 3 yrs, and so far, $86 is all I spent in them (because only two of them are worth putting in money). My expense in playing GW is three times that. So the F2P-is-more-expensive myth just doesn't work on me.
There are good and terrible F2P's. It won't hurt just to pop a question in their forums like "is this game cash-dependent". Usually some long-time players can give you a pretty good idea of the game.
If you let a crappy F2P eats your wallet, sorry, you ain't got much a brain to pvp with in the first place.
All F2p's item malls are open for everyone to see, so there is no secret what they're selling.
It would help you, no doubt.
And I'll thank you in advance for my upcoming ban.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Well he should ban himself for breaking forum rules, going off topic, personal attacks, retalliation.
There are quite a few rules he broke in his paragraph of verbal abuse.
I'm not about to go on vacation, BTW. If you don't see any of my posts for a while...well, you know what happened. It happened the last time Jon and I exchnged posts on this issue.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yeah, I agree. I understand that people have limits, but when you're the editor this is very unprofessional and distasteful behavior.
Reminds me of Derek Smart a bit.
We've already seen before that those who work here are above the rules.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Nearly all gaming websites have a much higher % of F2P advertising because that's who is buying ads. The F2P target market responds more readily to flashy ads than the P2P counterparts.
P2Ps tend to only advertise when something significant changes. And when it happens they invest a large sum. AOC is a good example of this.
Edit: I agree though, that the retaliation here clearly breaks TOS.
While I understand you are annoyed that someone might feel your site is using its blogs to promote the games that buy ad space here, it doesn't really sit well with me that you would "Attack" the people who ultimately come here and spend their time perusing these forums because they genuinely like the content here. "I wish I was as smart as you" What kind of snarky bs is that? Is this what I can expect from the managing editor of this website from now on? I am really amazed at your lack of tact and your apparent inability to be diplomatic or mature.
So in fact I ALWAYS get my $15 worth from an MMO. And no I don't ever EVER want to by items from a shop to "keep up". I'm not trying to, nor do I care to keep up with someone who puts in more time then me, and anyone who does has a warped sense of what matters in the world.
Not to mention MMOs are so easy now a days that even with casual play time you can max out your characters in a month. So there is no hurry to catch up with people.
So I don't agree with any of your logic except for the last paragraph which is spot on. I don't play MMOs that have a sub and an item shop, no matter how cosmetic those items are.
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I do not understand your position here Snarlingwolf,
If the above is true, why do you care about the fee structure. If the game content is good regardless of subscription method you (or I) will play and then I would assume we both got our money's worth. So item shop, F2P, whatever, does not really matter. It is just entertainment in mine and your spare time.
I could care less if lotro went F2P as it was the game was in a slow death just like DDO. It was the only way to save it.
My problem comes from no content for the past 6 months, no new content for the next 3-6 months at the end game level. Meanwhile Turbine/wb does evrything they can to get the new kid on the block while taking a dump on its vet players and basicly told us you got to sit there until around december without nothing new to do.
One thing to get new players, another thing to sacrifice almost 90% of your vet player base to do so, is the real problem.
So telling me to be ok while I watch a once great game go down the tubes, and Tubine walk lock step righ behind cryptic is what makes me sick.
I actually liked the article and I am currently absorbed in the F2P game called "Kingdom Heroes." It has some really awesome PVP and, imo, is only rivaled by Planetside in terms of freedom.
As to your post Stradden, very unprofessional. I am not pleased to see what is becoming of MMORPG.com.
Staying on topic or not, some people are just let's say it .... stupid, how long can you live up with that kind of stupidity? Sooner or later you you'll have enough of it.
If I don't know I just don't pretend to know how it works, and whenever someone explains things I'm not acting like there would be a wall between us. Those that don't want to listen are not worth the effort what it takes to explain certain things.
On the topic though, MMO genere is changing, there's less and less games with 'uber' items etc. and that's good.
The one thing that is alarming though imo is that we have far far more f2p games developed nowdays compared to p2p. I feel that soon we'll have an 'exsclusive p2p mmo club'.
I hope that we'll maintain a healthy balance between p2p and f2p becuase generally .. when I have a sub game I don't want to have cash shops and vice versa.
If this will stay like this all we will have in the future is
sub+f2p = sub/micro hybrid (so basicly our lotro, d&d style) and micro only ... as you see it lacks 'sub only'.
My probelm with cash shops is not the items they can offer but that most of the time that type of games are far far more expensive then those only with subscription. It's always so tempting to buy all those 'meaningless' things (you know, character slots, quests, bag slots, special mounts - not really game braking things) yet they're making the gameplay so much nicer.