So you're trying to make me give in by saying bawk bawk. That's really thoughtful of you.
Still waiting on your personal info..chicken..?
Since I'm forced to type in the quote it seems, I'm going to use red. I already have put up my first and last name as well as a thread on another forum in which you will see a picture of me and my full name. The thing is, I don't believe anything bad is going to happen to me.
This quote box really got me in its web. At least use search before you spew out your insensitivity.
So you're trying to make me give in by saying bawk bawk. That's really thoughtful of you.
Still waiting on your personal info..chicken..?
Donovan Cummins
Sure you can find me. Why? To prove you can? I know you can.
I am not gonna call your Mom names, or try to offend you.
Another point is, you probably won't be the one to try and attack me. You will post this name on some anonymous hacker forum and expect them to be your personal army to prove your point.
Again, we all know what people can find out about us and we are saying we are not afraid.
So you're trying to make me give in by saying bawk bawk. That's really thoughtful of you.
Still waiting on your personal info..chicken..?
Donovan Cummins
Sure you can find me. Why? To prove you can? I know you can.
I am not gonna call your Mom names, or try to offend you.
Another point is, you probably won't be the one to try and attack me. You will post this name on some anonymous hacker forum and expect them to be your personal army to prove your point.
Again, we all know what people can find out about us and we are saying we are not afraid.
Your name isn't all I asked, I asked your phone + name + where you live.
Because if this goes through that's what Blizzard will get because the Blizzard ID will link to facebook + account.
Are you willing to put all that into together on this forum? If you are, you are a mighty gullible individual.
Your name isn't all I asked, I asked your phone + name + where you live.
Because if this goes through that's what Blizzard will get because the Blizzard ID will link to facebook.
Are you willing to put all that into together on this forum? If you are, you are a mighty gullible individual.
Linking your Facebook will be optional (at least for now, but let's not forget ''We will never let you race change or faction change'' and that still happened in the end).
Originally posted by utopium
One of the points is that some of those top honchos were really quite tight with information about themselves. And one of the reasons you don't worry much about this, is that likely you're careful about what you leave out there.
Yet, they want to inspire people to freely give out information under their full name. They're asking people to not worry and just be sloppy. The sloppier people become in general, the more can be gleaned from their full name, as they start leaving small tidbits of revealing info here and there. How is this good?
I see this as a wakeup call for some people. Quite a few have used Google and found that their Facebook is the first hit, so they effectively deleted their Facebook account (extreme I know, but effective nonetheless).
No they don't have to provide any of that info. Just because it links to a facebook profile doesn't mean they have one. If they don't have a facebook profile then all you have to go on is his first and last name. Sure you could always search their name on facebook or google but there is no guaruntee you will get the right person by doing that.
Therin lies the problem and why I don't like the whole idea. The people who get upset enough over a forum post to actually attempt to try and track someone down with just a first and last name can't be accused of rational thinking. Assumptions will be made by the offended party and to assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. The inevitble consequence is someone is going to take things too far on the wrong person. Then the poop hits the fan.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
No they don't have to provide any of that info. Just because it links to a facebook profile doesn't mean they have one. If they don't have a facebook profile then all you have to go on is his first and last name. Sure you could always search their name on facebook or google but there is no guaruntee you will get the right person by doing that.
Therin lies the problem and why I don't like the whole idea. The people who get upset enough over a forum post to actually attempt to try and track someone down with just a first and last name can't be accused of rational thinking. Assumptions will be made by the offended party and to assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. The inevitble consequence is someone is going to take things too far on the wrong person. Then the poop hits the fan.
I do not follow this line of reasoning? So the situation will be worse because the wrong innocent person will be hurt? It will be more of a tragedy because instead of killing one innocent stranger the crazy person killed a different innocent stranger?
I you are wacko enough to hurt people over issues like this it really does not make a difference who you hurt but that you hurt them.
I really, really hope Blizzard rescinds this decision before someone ends up in the hospital (or worse) because a comment made on a forum was taken the wrong way by a mentally unstable individual.
It will happen if they do this, it's only a matter of time.
Deserved. And I am pretty sure most of their generic CMs were against this in the first place. Kinda creepy but they opened the can of worms. /shrug
And thats the whole point. You can get this stuff just by knowing a persons real name. RealID now opens the situation from something that was originally anonymous.
I believe, part of the point, is that one of the oft-repeated defenses is that you can't get useful info from just having a person's name. Not to say you specifically make this argument, but you don't have to look to far in any of the numerous threads to find that statement. This blog appears to dispel that notion by displaying what's been found just based on a name while, at least loosely, describing how the data was obtained. Now, the "usefulness" of the information is certainly relative to intent so that could be argued I suppose...
They did not get that info from 'just havin a person's name'. They had much more info to go on.
The biggest issue I see with this whole RealID thing is the fact that it will in essence make it even easier for people to access your accounts using basic social engineering skills on CSRs. And no matter what anyone says, be it the 'You have to answer secret questions' or 'they will ask for other info', the weakest link in any form of security be it physical or account security will always be the human element. And a lot of CSRs are not all that quick to catch on to a person fishing for info, especially when it seems to be unimportant info.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The biggest issue I see with this whole RealID thing is the fact that it will in essence make it even easier for people to access your accounts using basic social engineering skills on CSRs. And no matter what anyone says, be it the 'You have to answer secret questions' or 'they will ask for other info', the weakest link in any form of security be it physical or account security will always be the human element. And a lot of CSRs are not all that quick to catch on to a person fishing for info, especially when it seems to be unimportant info.
Account security has never been something Warcraft was known for...
The biggest issue I see with this whole RealID thing is the fact that it will in essence make it even easier for people to access your accounts using basic social engineering skills on CSRs. And no matter what anyone says, be it the 'You have to answer secret questions' or 'they will ask for other info', the weakest link in any form of security be it physical or account security will always be the human element. And a lot of CSRs are not all that quick to catch on to a person fishing for info, especially when it seems to be unimportant info.
Account security has never been something Warcraft was known for...
Get an authenticator.
Not really the point.
Also the Authenticator can be easily bypassed.
The point is any info given about a specific person (Full name) within a specific system or database (as in something like Blizzards account DB) can make it easier to target, gather and exploit said information and obtain information that can be used to cause damage to said person or some unsuspecting victim who happens to share a similar name.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I believe, part of the point, is that one of the oft-repeated defenses is that you can't get useful info from just having a person's name. Not to say you specifically make this argument, but you don't have to look to far in any of the numerous threads to find that statement. This blog appears to dispel that notion by displaying what's been found just based on a name while, at least loosely, describing how the data was obtained. Now, the "usefulness" of the information is certainly relative to intent so that could be argued I suppose...
They did not get that info from 'just havin a person's name'. They had much more info to go on.
So, your stance is that there is nothing that can be done with a name then or am I misunderstanding the implication?
For the CEO, I would agree they had a lot more info to start with and the CEO/COO/etc aren't really trying to not be found as they are, to some extent public figure. For many of the others, the only additional info was really that they were Blizzard employees at some point or another. For forum posters, we can guarantee they are Blizzard customers which may help us narrow down results we get from just a name. I mean, no matter what you are never starting with just one piece of info.
Fact is, having the name provides a more informed starting point when trying to locate information on someone should that be somethign you're motivated to do. I suppsoe the most practical application of this would be in social engineering attempts, but that's just speculation of course.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Personally, I doubt that this will happen as is. There is far too much press, and far too many negative opinions for Blizzard to be dumb enough to implement this. I'm trying to follow along, but what exactly is the argument for why full names as forum handles is a good thing. What purpose does it serve?
This is not directed at anyone specifically. It's neat that you aren't scared to have your personal identity and a lot of the information that goes along with it plastered around the internet for all to see. You're acting like the child that gets told not to play with wasps.
"But Dad I'm not scared of wasps."
"Well son, I'm telling you that if you keep playing with wasps you're going to be bitten."
"It's okay Dad. No big deal."
Two weeks later the kid comes running home crying and sputtering about how bad it hurt when he finally got bitten, and now he's terrified of wasps. Has it occurred to you that not everyone is in your situation? Some people have families. Some families have small children. Some people have jobs of a sensitive nature. If you have a family posting your personal information all over the internet is just stupid.
"But I'm not scared. You're letting fear win."
No. I'm simply being prudent. If I call your wife and tell her you've just told the internet where you live, how many children you have, where you work, what your credit score is, do you think she'll share the same idle carefree attitude you have?
RealID is a pointless idea. If I want social networking I'll use Facebook. I don't play WoW for the same reasons I use Facebook. I think it is a pointless and intrusive "feature."
No they don't have to provide any of that info. Just because it links to a facebook profile doesn't mean they have one. If they don't have a facebook profile then all you have to go on is his first and last name. Sure you could always search their name on facebook or google but there is no guaruntee you will get the right person by doing that.
Therin lies the problem and why I don't like the whole idea. The people who get upset enough over a forum post to actually attempt to try and track someone down with just a first and last name can't be accused of rational thinking. Assumptions will be made by the offended party and to assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. The inevitble consequence is someone is going to take things too far on the wrong person. Then the poop hits the fan.
I do not follow this line of reasoning? So the situation will be worse because the wrong innocent person will be hurt? It will be more of a tragedy because instead of killing one innocent stranger the crazy person killed a different innocent stranger?
I you are wacko enough to hurt people over issues like this it really does not make a difference who you hurt but that you hurt them.
No it won't be any more of a tradgedy weather they get the right person or the wrong person. It's still a tradgedy that someone got hurt. What happens though is the popular media will have an absolute field day with Person hurt over forum comment followed by Victim didn't make comment just had same name. The fear mongering so prevelent in todays modern popular media will make that kind of story a ratings bonanza for as long as legal proceedings take.
As I said the type of person who would get angry over a forum post enough to attempt tracking down the person behind the comment arn't going to score very high in the most rational thinker rankings. They get a hit on running a search on the first and last name that lives close enough in their own mind they will be justified that their actions are appropriate.
Things that stop this kind of stuff from happening now are you don't know the name of the person who just angered you. It takes effort/time on your part to figure that info out for most thats enough to make the attempt not worth doing, If straght off the bat you know the first and last name of the person who offended you it's not much effort to find that name somewhere just a matter of a couple of clicks and a bit of typing to get an address and or phone number. Does it matter to that irrational thinker weather they have the right person with that name or not?
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
I believe, part of the point, is that one of the oft-repeated defenses is that you can't get useful info from just having a person's name. Not to say you specifically make this argument, but you don't have to look to far in any of the numerous threads to find that statement. This blog appears to dispel that notion by displaying what's been found just based on a name while, at least loosely, describing how the data was obtained. Now, the "usefulness" of the information is certainly relative to intent so that could be argued I suppose...
They did not get that info from 'just havin a person's name'. They had much more info to go on.
So, your stance is that there is nothing that can be done with a name then or am I misunderstanding the implication?
For the CEO, I would agree they had a lot more info to start with and the CEO/COO/etc aren't really trying to not be found as they are, to some extent public figure. For many of the others, the only additional info was really that they were Blizzard employees at some point or another. For forum posters, we can guarantee they are Blizzard customers which may help us narrow down results we get from just a name. I mean, no matter what you are never starting with just one piece of info.
Fact is, having the name provides a more informed starting point when trying to locate information on someone should that be somethign you're motivated to do. I suppsoe the most practical application of this would be in social engineering attempts, but that's just speculation of course.
It does, but it doesnt justify the irrational fear.
IF things are as bad as people are trying to make them appear on the Internet, then the Government is long over due stepping into the arena and going KGB on Internet freedom.
Kind of makes you think...eh Blizzard? Have fun with this shitstorm.
I just don't understand why Blizzard doesn't let you assign one RealID nickname, and only one, if there desired effect is to help combat the flame wars on their forums. 0% common sense. zero.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
So, your stance is that there is nothing that can be done with a name then or am I misunderstanding the implication?
For the CEO, I would agree they had a lot more info to start with and the CEO/COO/etc aren't really trying to not be found as they are, to some extent public figure. For many of the others, the only additional info was really that they were Blizzard employees at some point or another. For forum posters, we can guarantee they are Blizzard customers which may help us narrow down results we get from just a name. I mean, no matter what you are never starting with just one piece of info.
Fact is, having the name provides a more informed starting point when trying to locate information on someone should that be somethign you're motivated to do. I suppsoe the most practical application of this would be in social engineering attempts, but that's just speculation of course.
It does, but it doesnt justify the irrational fear.
IF things are as bad as people are trying to make them appear on the Internet, then the Government is long over due stepping into the arena and going KGB on Internet freedom.
Rationality is such a subjective idea. I mean, suppose my life experience made the oft-repeated "stalker threat" seem viable? That would be perfectly rational to me then right? Just because it didn't happen to me doesn't give me to right to write-off someone else's concerns as irrational.
As far as the government, they have their own institutions to overcome first. I mean, the supreme court has already cited anonymous free speech as vital and covered under the first amendment. Not to say they couldn't overturn that, but that would get a lot more forum posts then a few gamers chatting about a new 'feature'
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It does, but it doesnt justify the irrational fear.
IF things are as bad as people are trying to make them appear on the Internet, then the Government is long over due stepping into the arena and going KGB on Internet freedom.
I appreciate what you're trying to say here, but the sad fact is that one can avoid a lot of unnecessary trouble by not leaving everything out there. People aren't really that rational, which is why actors playing the villain in soap operas are bombarded with angry phone calls every time a new episode airs ("How could you do that to poor, little Hilda? You monster!"). Some of these calls will be made by people who are overly drunk or very emotional or simply around the bend. Once the actor gets tired of being kept awake all night, he might find it better to simply get a new number and keep it off the book.
It's also a sad fact that not a week goes by that I don't read about some cyber stalker trying to arrange a "date" with a minor. It's not irrational to be cautious if your little one is online. Internet simply wasn't designed to be used the way it is now, and as a society we're not really masters of all its implications yet.
This is not a good change. It encourages a sloppy attitude and doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't enhance freedom. The real battle for freedom is fought on an entirely different frontier.
Comments
Eleanor Rigby.
Donovan Cummins
Sure you can find me. Why? To prove you can? I know you can.
I am not gonna call your Mom names, or try to offend you.
Another point is, you probably won't be the one to try and attack me. You will post this name on some anonymous hacker forum and expect them to be your personal army to prove your point.
Again, we all know what people can find out about us and we are saying we are not afraid.
Your name isn't all I asked, I asked your phone + name + where you live.
Because if this goes through that's what Blizzard will get because the Blizzard ID will link to facebook + account.
Are you willing to put all that into together on this forum? If you are, you are a mighty gullible individual.
Linking your Facebook will be optional (at least for now, but let's not forget ''We will never let you race change or faction change'' and that still happened in the end).
I see this as a wakeup call for some people. Quite a few have used Google and found that their Facebook is the first hit, so they effectively deleted their Facebook account (extreme I know, but effective nonetheless).
Eleanor Rigby.
No they don't have to provide any of that info. Just because it links to a facebook profile doesn't mean they have one. If they don't have a facebook profile then all you have to go on is his first and last name. Sure you could always search their name on facebook or google but there is no guaruntee you will get the right person by doing that.
Therin lies the problem and why I don't like the whole idea. The people who get upset enough over a forum post to actually attempt to try and track someone down with just a first and last name can't be accused of rational thinking. Assumptions will be made by the offended party and to assume is to make an ASS out of U and ME. The inevitble consequence is someone is going to take things too far on the wrong person. Then the poop hits the fan.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
Wierd, all that information was gathered WITHOUT the use of RealID
MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
Willing to try anything new
I think that blog really highlights the potential problems with this decision.
I do not follow this line of reasoning? So the situation will be worse because the wrong innocent person will be hurt? It will be more of a tragedy because instead of killing one innocent stranger the crazy person killed a different innocent stranger?
I you are wacko enough to hurt people over issues like this it really does not make a difference who you hurt but that you hurt them.
What? That won't EVER happen in wow... how dare you imagine such a thing pfft... killing people over epics, I can't imagine this.
Take this: I just ninja'd lich king on 25m, and robbed the guild vault and posted I did it on the realm forums!!
See, no one killed me yet!! ..wait brb door...
Deserved. And I am pretty sure most of their generic CMs were against this in the first place. Kinda creepy but they opened the can of worms. /shrug
And thats the whole point. You can get this stuff just by knowing a persons real name. RealID now opens the situation from something that was originally anonymous.
It is bound to happen, just like World War III. It is inevitable, right?
Eleanor Rigby.
Pandora's Box anyone ?
Then again, I doubt the EULA will hold in court even a second if something... bad should occur.
They did not get that info from 'just havin a person's name'. They had much more info to go on.
The biggest issue I see with this whole RealID thing is the fact that it will in essence make it even easier for people to access your accounts using basic social engineering skills on CSRs. And no matter what anyone says, be it the 'You have to answer secret questions' or 'they will ask for other info', the weakest link in any form of security be it physical or account security will always be the human element. And a lot of CSRs are not all that quick to catch on to a person fishing for info, especially when it seems to be unimportant info.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Account security has never been something Warcraft was known for...
Get an authenticator.
Not really the point.
Also the Authenticator can be easily bypassed.
The point is any info given about a specific person (Full name) within a specific system or database (as in something like Blizzards account DB) can make it easier to target, gather and exploit said information and obtain information that can be used to cause damage to said person or some unsuspecting victim who happens to share a similar name.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
So, your stance is that there is nothing that can be done with a name then or am I misunderstanding the implication?
For the CEO, I would agree they had a lot more info to start with and the CEO/COO/etc aren't really trying to not be found as they are, to some extent public figure. For many of the others, the only additional info was really that they were Blizzard employees at some point or another. For forum posters, we can guarantee they are Blizzard customers which may help us narrow down results we get from just a name. I mean, no matter what you are never starting with just one piece of info.
Fact is, having the name provides a more informed starting point when trying to locate information on someone should that be somethign you're motivated to do. I suppsoe the most practical application of this would be in social engineering attempts, but that's just speculation of course.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Personally, I doubt that this will happen as is. There is far too much press, and far too many negative opinions for Blizzard to be dumb enough to implement this. I'm trying to follow along, but what exactly is the argument for why full names as forum handles is a good thing. What purpose does it serve?
This is not directed at anyone specifically. It's neat that you aren't scared to have your personal identity and a lot of the information that goes along with it plastered around the internet for all to see. You're acting like the child that gets told not to play with wasps.
"But Dad I'm not scared of wasps."
"Well son, I'm telling you that if you keep playing with wasps you're going to be bitten."
"It's okay Dad. No big deal."
Two weeks later the kid comes running home crying and sputtering about how bad it hurt when he finally got bitten, and now he's terrified of wasps. Has it occurred to you that not everyone is in your situation? Some people have families. Some families have small children. Some people have jobs of a sensitive nature. If you have a family posting your personal information all over the internet is just stupid.
"But I'm not scared. You're letting fear win."
No. I'm simply being prudent. If I call your wife and tell her you've just told the internet where you live, how many children you have, where you work, what your credit score is, do you think she'll share the same idle carefree attitude you have?
RealID is a pointless idea. If I want social networking I'll use Facebook. I don't play WoW for the same reasons I use Facebook. I think it is a pointless and intrusive "feature."
No it won't be any more of a tradgedy weather they get the right person or the wrong person. It's still a tradgedy that someone got hurt. What happens though is the popular media will have an absolute field day with Person hurt over forum comment followed by Victim didn't make comment just had same name. The fear mongering so prevelent in todays modern popular media will make that kind of story a ratings bonanza for as long as legal proceedings take.
As I said the type of person who would get angry over a forum post enough to attempt tracking down the person behind the comment arn't going to score very high in the most rational thinker rankings. They get a hit on running a search on the first and last name that lives close enough in their own mind they will be justified that their actions are appropriate.
Things that stop this kind of stuff from happening now are you don't know the name of the person who just angered you. It takes effort/time on your part to figure that info out for most thats enough to make the attempt not worth doing, If straght off the bat you know the first and last name of the person who offended you it's not much effort to find that name somewhere just a matter of a couple of clicks and a bit of typing to get an address and or phone number. Does it matter to that irrational thinker weather they have the right person with that name or not?
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
It does, but it doesnt justify the irrational fear.
IF things are as bad as people are trying to make them appear on the Internet, then the Government is long over due stepping into the arena and going KGB on Internet freedom.
Kind of makes you think...eh Blizzard? Have fun with this shitstorm.
I just don't understand why Blizzard doesn't let you assign one RealID nickname, and only one, if there desired effect is to help combat the flame wars on their forums. 0% common sense. zero.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Rationality is such a subjective idea. I mean, suppose my life experience made the oft-repeated "stalker threat" seem viable? That would be perfectly rational to me then right? Just because it didn't happen to me doesn't give me to right to write-off someone else's concerns as irrational.
As far as the government, they have their own institutions to overcome first. I mean, the supreme court has already cited anonymous free speech as vital and covered under the first amendment. Not to say they couldn't overturn that, but that would get a lot more forum posts then a few gamers chatting about a new 'feature'
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I appreciate what you're trying to say here, but the sad fact is that one can avoid a lot of unnecessary trouble by not leaving everything out there. People aren't really that rational, which is why actors playing the villain in soap operas are bombarded with angry phone calls every time a new episode airs ("How could you do that to poor, little Hilda? You monster!"). Some of these calls will be made by people who are overly drunk or very emotional or simply around the bend. Once the actor gets tired of being kept awake all night, he might find it better to simply get a new number and keep it off the book.
It's also a sad fact that not a week goes by that I don't read about some cyber stalker trying to arrange a "date" with a minor. It's not irrational to be cautious if your little one is online. Internet simply wasn't designed to be used the way it is now, and as a society we're not really masters of all its implications yet.
This is not a good change. It encourages a sloppy attitude and doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't enhance freedom. The real battle for freedom is fought on an entirely different frontier.
Vengence never solves anything
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Philosophy of MMO Game Design