Here's a little fact. They are not going to re-code the core game mechanics or change the fundimental design of the game. Especially not in a matter of weeks.
Balancing and bug fixing is not going to address the underlieing issues.
LOL you and your buddy are one of the few that think there are problems with the core mechanics. Yeah you two know better than an established company. Hahaha makes sense to me.
One of a few, lol. This game is getting panned, by the majority who get a look at it.
I keep an eye on a lot of sights and forums bro your flat out wrong on that one. Once you get past the nerds that cannot get past no jump a lot more positive feedback than negative by far.
Wrong, just wrong. There is a lot of positve expectations and hopes, but not positive feedback.
Lol say what you want. Postive feedback is what it is. I can do this all day bro idc. You are wrong.
Waldo he pretty much got you here, I see very little positive feedback and a lot of negitive. The negitive is realistic and specific where the rare positive is often just "i like it", which is hardly solid feedback, this and attention to the graphics (which is positive).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Let's say SE implements the same type of UI's as modern mmo with mouse and keyboard, thus making the mouse/keyboard 20% more efficient than using a controller. For example, you can click on an npc using your mouse versus scrolling npc using controller.
By doing this, SE screws over controller users (which are a far higher proportion of the users in Japan). Some of you argue, "Then just get a keyboard and mouse for your PS3." Which begs the question, when ever buy the game for PS3 if you already have a keyboard/mouse on the PC.
Some of you don't understand SE's vision of the game. They want everyone in the world ot play on the same servers, whether using PC or PS3, whether using keyboard/mouse or a controller. The game has to work equally well for all.
SE does nothing by improving one at the expense of another. All players must feel that they are equally accessing the game regardless of the instruments they're using.
SO NO, it is not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse UI just like any other mmo.
Thats all well and good. Problem is, it ends up being mediocre/crappy for both.
Let's say SE implements the same type of UI's as modern mmo with mouse and keyboard, thus making the mouse/keyboard 20% more efficient than using a controller. For example, you can click on an npc using your mouse versus scrolling npc using controller.
By doing this, SE screws over controller users (which are a far higher proportion of the users in Japan). Some of you argue, "Then just get a keyboard and mouse for your PS3." Which begs the question, when ever buy the game for PS3 if you already have a keyboard/mouse on the PC.
Some of you don't understand SE's vision of the game. They want everyone in the world ot play on the same servers, whether using PC or PS3, whether using keyboard/mouse or a controller. The game has to work equally well for all.
SE does nothing by improving one at the expense of another. All players must feel that they are equally accessing the game regardless of the instruments they're using.
SO NO, it is not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse UI just like any other mmo.
Thats all well and good. Problem is, it ends up being mediocre/crappy for both.
Nobody will care about the UI if the game offers so many other great things (combat, story, depth, etc.).
Complaints about the UI in ffxi were there from start to finish. It didn't stop 500 - 700k people playing for 5-7 years.
The problems with the keyboard/mouse users will be offset by more people choosing to get the PS3/Controller. Whatever you lose in PC sales, you will gain in PS3. For one, many people can't afford a PC that will run FFXIV well. There's also a lot of people who love playing on their couch, rather than button mashing the keyboard.
I feel that a majority of the complaints are about taste. Make no mistake, for some of you it is so "distasteful" that you equate that with Broken.
Many people also claimed that FFXI was broken. Not me, I loved it.
Waldo he pretty much got you here, I see very little positive feedback and a lot of negitive. The negitive is realistic and specific where the rare positive is often just "i like it", which is hardly solid feedback, this and attention to the graphics (which is positive).
I don't think they are playing "GOTCHA" as you seem to think. They are discussing the game pretty much on merits.
For most people, if they like something they don't really have to go all into detail about WHY they like it. Men are famous for that, we don't go all into detail to our girls about WHY we love them, we just say we do. Girls are usually the ones who are all "You make great chili" or "You wink just so" or something else to justify how they feel about it.
Most gamers just like something, they don't really have to tell you why they like it or try and justify to YOU or others why they do. That is because they don't care that you don't "get it". They don't try to convince you to like it as well. If it's too negative for you, good luck and Happy Trails is the attitude.
But on the flipside, you ALWAYS see negative people with a laundry list on why THEY don't like something, but that doesn't mean they are valid complaints. The "NO JUMPING IN FFXIV!" complaint/negative threads are the easiest to see as an example.
Negative people ran thread after thread about why no jumping "ruined" FFXIV for them, while people who like FFXIV thought think they are pretty much too picky and looking for reason to dislike it which I agree with.
If something as simple as "no jumping" is going to make you discount a game, then you were never going to please them anyway unless you changed EVERYTHING about the game to their liking. They never wanted to play the game as is, but wanted it tailored to some image in their own head about what FFXIV should have been like.
That person is just inherently negative to dig that deep.
BHRONN states his opinions of the game which is fine but there is nothing wrong with the design mechanics it is working as intended. My guess is that he's used to the button mashing mmo's and doesnt realize that SE did not build the previous MMO nor are they building this MMO to be a speed sequence button masher. FF in general is about preplan, predetermined strategy. if you want to repeatedly mash 1,2,3,4,5 as quickyl as possible and not particularly in that order then you need to head to another MMO this one is not that kind of game.
I will admit I am a fan of FFXI and will be played FFXIV for the long haul but I have played them all, wow, swg, ddo, rfonline, war, aoc, aion, coh, gw, lineage, eq1, eq2, vangaurd, daoc. All these games play the exact same way with the exception of AOC and DDO who had their niche. FFXI and hopefully FFXIV offer a change of pace, a more strategic approach take it in and play it out you might not be disappointed. Besides what else you going to play, WoW Cataclysm...
I just ran the test, scored a 1076 with 12762ms load time. I have Windows 7 Home Premium, Quad Q8300, Nvidia GT220, 8GB ram. That score was on low, I also tried on high and scored in the 500s. I know I don't have the most up to date computer, but I can't believe with those specs the game will be (according to the chart on the first post) unplayable for me. I can definitely see this hurting their subs if a machine like mine can't play the game. Anyone have any ideas on what could be causing such a low score? Thanks!
That card is not designed for games, and if you have a 22" o 24" screen that use high resolutions you would not obtain resolutions of more that 20fps even in games with low requisites like EVE
I was actually talking about what Bhronn said about all of the problems that are occuring since they uncapped it from 30 frames. It seems like the only thing they can do since most information is held server side is replace the cap to keep the lag down. But thank you for the congratulations
Lets believe the random guy on the interwebs!
That random guy put out more acctual information than you you just stated, and your are refuted with actual specific accounts (and you act like you just didn't get owned and caught basiclly making stuff up). And so you say more stuff and are refuted agian with specific examples from the beta. But no your right becuase you imagine better than the person experiencing right. You statements basiclly do account for those from any other mmo release where there were problems and fanboi couldn't exept those problems. ATM if you were in WAR closed beta rounds you would have less to complain about than FF14 and in open beta war feel apart it couldn't handle the 100s of people on the same screen. ATM ff14 can't handle the 15s of people on the screen, you can TALK a lot, but the fact is that this is just one isssue (and not a simple easy patch) of the many that bh brought up and you act like it no big deal and will be easily fixed. It is not that easy, and this is made very clear by the 30 fps cap they were running. Now add the other issues, the plate of "bugs" bad coding is rather tall for this stage of beta. I have seen worse but they never fixed their problems.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
Guess it works out for us both then. people who cant make statements without name calling or backing them up tend to bug me.
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage. They uncapped them to try to get the network response better. This had the side effect of uncovering a plethora of other problems.
Waldo he pretty much got you here, I see very little positive feedback and a lot of negitive. The negitive is realistic and specific where the rare positive is often just "i like it", which is hardly solid feedback, this and attention to the graphics (which is positive).
I don't think they are playing "GOTCHA" as you seem to think. They are discussing the game pretty much on merits.
For most people, if they like something they don't really have to go all into detail about WHY they like it. Men are famous for that, we don't go all into detail to our girls about WHY we love them, we just say we do. Girls are usually the ones who are all "You make great chili" or "You wink just so" or something else to justify how they feel about it.
lets start out with your first flawed arguement. WALDOE WAS NOT ADDRESSING THE MERIT OF THE GAME. Just like my statement said he was talkign about positive and negitive feedback. So no they are not "discussing the game pretty much on merits. "
And his statements are obviously inccorect just look at this thread or the others on this site. in this thread alone there is a lot of actual feedback most of which is negitive. Actual positive feedback (1-2 post on what they saw in a video). So i mean yeah your wrong now also.
True but guys got reason they like girls. I mean i never hear a comedian , buddy, guy, any guy ever talk about any of a girls physical features or personality right. Its normal , she is girl all girl = becuase she is girl , I don't know why i like girl , but i do she is girl.
Sorry but guys DO KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE ABOUT WOMEN. We may not EXPRESS this but we know why and can state it. I know my girl love me cuz i make great chilli .... yeah enough on that.
But i find your agrument mistaken , becuase as stated people know positive and negitve aspect of the enviroment around them. Thye may not always appriciate the positives enough, however, when discussing an up and comming mmo i usually see good amounts of possitive feedback thast quite detailed and negitive also. But ff14 is sorely lackign for some odd reason (im not claiming i know why only that is very dry on this front so far).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'm pretty sure the recent NDA lift allows you to talk about the game now and even show screenshots if you have any, i think video's and apparently music are still not allowed
No one can refute what your saying because you said yourself you don't think you can talk about it/haven't stated completely what the issues are.
Thus you aren't giving us as much information as I think you could, other than you think the game is buggy somehow =
He actually did state many of the issues and areas that need work. If you want to refute them than do so, BUT DON'T POST THAT HE DIDN'T STATE ANY ISSUES. Has he stated everything nope, but then agian no one supporting ff14 so zealously has stated any specific examples to refute him , even if it was generalized. And not that many people have stated any specific examples positivly supporting this game barring graphics. So You can say that he didn't but this very thread proves you wrong, infact im gonna quote it so you can't lie about that also.
Originally posted by bhronn
1: While crafting or gathering everyone is still getting errors that auto disconnects them from the game. if this happens while on a levequest..(ffxiv's quest system) then you auto fail the quest and have to wait 48 hours to try it again. Currently, you can only have 8 crafting and 8 battle quests in your log every 48 hours....yea its as bad as it sounds.
2: While keyboard and mouse got some modification, its still using a software mouse that turns sluggish depending on your FPS. There are menu errors with fetching information from the servers with even the simplist things as trying to bring up your skill menu, forcing you to try and bring it up 2 to 3 times to get the info you want. Same thing happens to stores when fetching what they have for sale.
3: The battle system is sluggish and the animations dont match most of the TP skill usuage when stamina is actually used. Another words, the battle system is sluggish and gets even worse if there many people around you. Theres still bugs from not getting XP to not getting the "correct" xp from fights, let alone bugs from not getting any xp for certain classes while grouped. Basically the system is flawed at its core.
4: The UI is just bad. UI's are supposed to be the medium that connects the gamer to the game and help fascillitate actions. this UI does the exact opposite. it hinders you in almost every way. From 10+ menus to go thru to craft 1 item, to clunky battle commands while fighting. its by far the worst UI I have ever seen coming from a beta tester of 10 plus games.
5:The graphics are good. Everything looks sharp and clean. But everything is reused over and over. 1 cave in the ground is EXACTLY like the next cave in the ground except for some mobs. Even tho the game looks good, the 1st starting area we have been able to test called Limsa is just bland. There is absolutely nothing that makes you
...
Wow look at that specific examples. I believe those issues are stated rather well, some could be filled out more... He does fill out a few in later posts; want me to quote that... I really should or you may say it didn't happen. But im not going to; you can instead. Look at page one and two of this thread and read his posts.
And to everyone, for the record, i hope ff14 is wonderful. Do i see a lot of stuff that makes me think, crap this game could be very unemjoyable .... you betcha. But we will have to wait and see. However, when i see people placing their imginations of how the game will be over specific examples ... im gonna refute those imaginations and stick with the person offering specific examples. (Becuase reality is your freind, even if he does kick you in the butt once in a while).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'm pretty sure the recent NDA lift allows you to talk about the game now and even show screenshots if you have any, i think video's and apparently music are still not allowed
No one can refute what your saying because you said yourself you don't think you can talk about it/haven't stated completely what the issues are.
Thus you aren't giving us as much information as I think you could, other than you think the game is buggy somehow =
He actually did state many of the issues and areas that need work. If you want to refute them than do so, BUT DON'T POST THAT HE DIDN'T STATE ANY ISSUES. Has he stated everything nope, but then agian no one supporting ff14 so zealously has stated any specific examples to refute him , even if it was generalized. And not that many people have stated any specific examples positivly supporting this game barring graphics. So You can say that he didn't but this very thread proves you wrong, infact im gonna quote it so you can't lie about that also.
Originally posted by bhronn
1: While crafting or gathering everyone is still getting errors that auto disconnects them from the game. if this happens while on a levequest..(ffxiv's quest system) then you auto fail the quest and have to wait 48 hours to try it again. Currently, you can only have 8 crafting and 8 battle quests in your log every 48 hours....yea its as bad as it sounds.
2: While keyboard and mouse got some modification, its still using a software mouse that turns sluggish depending on your FPS. There are menu errors with fetching information from the servers with even the simplist things as trying to bring up your skill menu, forcing you to try and bring it up 2 to 3 times to get the info you want. Same thing happens to stores when fetching what they have for sale.
3: The battle system is sluggish and the animations dont match most of the TP skill usuage when stamina is actually used. Another words, the battle system is sluggish and gets even worse if there many people around you. Theres still bugs from not getting XP to not getting the "correct" xp from fights, let alone bugs from not getting any xp for certain classes while grouped. Basically the system is flawed at its core.
4: The UI is just bad. UI's are supposed to be the medium that connects the gamer to the game and help fascillitate actions. this UI does the exact opposite. it hinders you in almost every way. From 10+ menus to go thru to craft 1 item, to clunky battle commands while fighting. its by far the worst UI I have ever seen coming from a beta tester of 10 plus games.
5:The graphics are good. Everything looks sharp and clean. But everything is reused over and over. 1 cave in the ground is EXACTLY like the next cave in the ground except for some mobs. Even tho the game looks good, the 1st starting area we have been able to test called Limsa is just bland. There is absolutely nothing that makes you
...
Wow look at that specific examples. I believe those issues are stated rather well, some could be filled out more... He does fill out a few in later posts; want me to quote that... I really should or you may say it didn't happen. But im not going to; you can instead. Look at page one and two of this thread and read his posts.
And to everyone, for the record, i hope ff14 is wonderful. Do i see a lot of stuff that makes me think, crap this game could be very unemjoyable .... you betcha. But we will have to wait and see. However, when i see people placing their imginations of how the game will be over specific examples ... im gonna refute those imaginations and stick with the person offering specific examples. (Becuase reality is your freind, even if he does kick you in the butt once in a while).
If you had read the entire thread you'd have noticed his first post was already discussed, up until he gave up responding to questions on it.
I was asking him what these "other" design flaws he apparently said himself doesn't want to talk about.
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage.
Why?
I don't care about the positive/negative BS going around in the thread, but when you throw statements around like this it makes you look foolish.
It makes me look foolish because you dont understand it or because you dont know why they had the fps cap in there in the first place? Are you in beta? Do you know the specs and limitations of the PS3?
I honestly cant go into more detail without possibly breaking the NDA. The wording on it is sketchy and i have several emails looking for some clarification.
But to blindly call me out as being foolish seems sorta.. foolish. SE has gone thru great lengths on this game to make it play the same for PC and PS3. If you were in beta you would see this.
Ok just had to make sure, you have no idea that framerate differences don't mean anything as long as it's programmed in properly, i.e. not like old games(XI for instance) where framerate could determine actual game speed.
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage. They uncapped them to try to get the network response better. This had the side effect of uncovering a plethora of other problems.
Good day to you.. sir?
How exactly are you so sure of this? Was it literally stated by SE? The ps3 version isn't even scheduled to be out until march next year, it shouldn't have anything to do with the PC until then.
It wouldn't make sense to uncap the fps, ignore it, and then put it back on because it was causing issues, it's more likely one of the few things they're trying to clear up before release
If you had read the entire thread you'd have noticed his first post was already discussed, up until he gave up responding to questions on it.
I was asking him what these "other" design flaws he apparently said himself doesn't want to talk about.
Heres something I can give you.
The magic classes have a finite amount of mana/power. There many complaints about haveing to grind around an aetherlite( power recharge) The magic classes do not regen power out of combat and have limited skills that will regen power. Currently most people use 1 spell because its the most power efficent and end up still having to trot back to the power recharge ever few mobs or so( I say few because different players play different so thier mob kills to power useage is different) Regardless the casters currently are "tied" to an aetherlite crystal.
Even this paragraph might be too much for the NDA. Consensus is we can talk about the game but cant go in depth into the mechanics.
If you had read the entire thread you'd have noticed his first post was already discussed, up until he gave up responding to questions on it.
I was asking him what these "other" design flaws he apparently said himself doesn't want to talk about.
Heres something I can give you.
The magic classes have a finite amount of mana/power. There many complaints about haveing to grind around an aetherlite( power recharge) The magic classes do not regen power out of combat and have limited skills that will regen power. Currently most people use 1 spell because its the most power efficent and end up still having to trot back to the power recharge ever few mobs or so( I say few because different players play different so thier mob kills to power useage is different) Regardless the casters currently are "tied" to an aetherlite crystal.
Even this paragraph might be too much for the NDA. Consensus is we can talk about the game but cant go in depth into the mechanics.
Thats info widely known and widely discussed even when NDA was in full effect.
You yourself have already gone in depth about some of the mechanics about the game, including describing the input lag issues with the UI and combat. If you were worried about violating the NDA you wouldn't have even risked your first post, but either way with the recent lift, it isn't a violation.
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage. They uncapped them to try to get the network response better. This had the side effect of uncovering a plethora of other problems.
Good day to you.. sir?
How exactly are you so sure of this? Was it literally stated by SE? The ps3 version isn't even scheduled to be out until march next year, it shouldn't have anything to do with the PC until then.
It wouldn't make sense to uncap the fps, ignore it, and then put it back on because it was causing issues, it's more likely one of the few things they're trying to clear up before release
They uncapped it to fix some of the UI issues and latency and errors appearing. heres an example...
The mouse is a software mouse. So at 30 fps it moved sluggishly in beta 2. if your fps dropped below 20 fps in beta 2 then it moved even more slowely or skipped around the screen. the fps drop could be from game performance /lag/ whatever, but it directly effected the UI and the mouse. They uncapped the fps to work on the mouse smoothing and other UI elements. Once those and a few other issues get resolved then the cap will go back in. it will happen before release because you dont want the game to be out 6 months from now, cap the fps for the PS3 and then go thru that shitstorm from PC players.
Example 2... if you were in a fight and your fps dropped to say 20. Animations and input would also slow down. Since all the info is stored server side if your UI is slow, the gameplay is slow. In beta 2 if your fps dropped you would start to see animation errors or them not going off. You would see it start taking longer for your imput commands to actually register and the dmg take effect on the mob.
Example 3.. Since everything is stored server side and the UI performance is based on your fps, if you were to try and select a skill and put into your hotbar, this was routinly taking 5 to 8 secs to perform. The bigger the drop in fps, the longer the wait. Thats if the info didnt error out.
Lag from any source directly effects your FPS and your FPS directly effects your UI. They uncapped it to work on these issues.
Edit: this is easy to test even today. Start turning up the video options so that your fps starts to drop and watch how the UI responds. This is also why some utube videos look like the player is enept or combat is slow where in other videos the combat looks faster. This is also why i believe the "core" game is flawed.
FFXIV is very different from the typical MMO that the majority of gamers are used to. This fact alone is the cause of most of the complaints about the game in my opinion. The assertion that the core mechanics are broken or flawed is ridiculous since they can only ever be what they are, their quality being merely a matter of opinion. There are many that like it and many more that dislike it... so what? It's nice that there's a developer that won't compromise their game design purely to appeal to the masses.
FFXIV does have issues, and some of them are serious, I accept that, but to suggest there are fundamental flaws is stupid when the points raised are purely a matter of opinion, even if the consensus is in agreement. This game will likely have the same result XI did; it will be largely unpopular with the masses but will retain a very dedicated playerbase who absolutely love it.
Not every MMO has to have mass appeal, and not having mass appeal does not mean the game is flawed!
As for actual issues: the only two of any major concern for me are the stat distribution system (which is either entirely useless or otherwise defeats the point of being able to play all classes on one character since the respec is far too restrictive) and the MP regeneration issues that are currently worse than the issues faced by mages in XI. Both of these could have simple solutions though so we can only wait and see.
Judge the game by how it is on release, not these beta reports. It is possible that all of these issues will be fixed or otherwise dealt with, no matter how unlikely you all think that will be.
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage. They uncapped them to try to get the network response better. This had the side effect of uncovering a plethora of other problems.
Good day to you.. sir?
How exactly are you so sure of this? Was it literally stated by SE? The ps3 version isn't even scheduled to be out until march next year, it shouldn't have anything to do with the PC until then.
It wouldn't make sense to uncap the fps, ignore it, and then put it back on because it was causing issues, it's more likely one of the few things they're trying to clear up before release
They uncapped it to fix some of the UI issues and latency and errors appearing. heres an example...
The mouse is a software mouse. So at 30 fps it moved sluggishly in beta 2. if your fps dropped below 20 fps in beta 2 then it moved even more slowely or skipped around the screen. the fps drop could be from game performance /lag/ whatever, but it directly effected the UI and the mouse. They uncapped the fps to work on the mouse smoothing and other UI elements. Once those and a few other issues get resolved then the cap will go back in. it will happen before release because you dont want the game to be out 6 months from now, cap the fps for the PS3 and then go thru that shitstorm from PC players.
Example 2... if you were in a fight and your fps dropped to say 20. Animations and input would also slow down. Since all the info is stored server side if your UI is slow, the gameplay is slow. In beta 2 if your fps dropped you would start to see animation errors or them not going off. You would see it start taking longer for your imput commands to actually register and the dmg take effect on the mob.
Example 3.. Since everything is stored server side and the UI performance is based on your fps, if you were to try and select a skill and put into your hotbar, this was routinly taking 5 to 8 secs to perform. The bigger the drop in fps, the longer the wait. Thats if the info didnt error out.
Lag from any source directly effects your FPS and your FPS directly effects your UI. They uncapped it to work on these issues.
I understand the current issues with it and why they had the cap, it was the same with XI, however that was mostly because the XI engine was for the most part a Ps2 port to the PC. Yet it's been stated several times in interviews with the dev's they had been developing this game to exceed 30 fps, which is part of the reason why the PS3 release had to be delayed to my understanding.
With the cap removed there are no doubt hiccup issues with the server, and that should be what they are working to fix to make the game playable at higher fps, along with as you said, fixing the errors that would occur due to fps drops on the client.
Is this the core/design issue you had been refering to earlier in the thread?
I can't wait until I can finally play the game and stop coming here reading this pointless argumentative threads. Bout time these games started coming out, the forums seem to be a good indication that the natives are restless. ;D
Comments
Waldo he pretty much got you here, I see very little positive feedback and a lot of negitive. The negitive is realistic and specific where the rare positive is often just "i like it", which is hardly solid feedback, this and attention to the graphics (which is positive).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Thats all well and good. Problem is, it ends up being mediocre/crappy for both.
i never had issues with ffxi keybaord controlls
Nobody will care about the UI if the game offers so many other great things (combat, story, depth, etc.).
Complaints about the UI in ffxi were there from start to finish. It didn't stop 500 - 700k people playing for 5-7 years.
The problems with the keyboard/mouse users will be offset by more people choosing to get the PS3/Controller. Whatever you lose in PC sales, you will gain in PS3. For one, many people can't afford a PC that will run FFXIV well. There's also a lot of people who love playing on their couch, rather than button mashing the keyboard.
I feel that a majority of the complaints are about taste. Make no mistake, for some of you it is so "distasteful" that you equate that with Broken.
Many people also claimed that FFXI was broken. Not me, I loved it.
So to each his own.
I don't think they are playing "GOTCHA" as you seem to think. They are discussing the game pretty much on merits.
For most people, if they like something they don't really have to go all into detail about WHY they like it. Men are famous for that, we don't go all into detail to our girls about WHY we love them, we just say we do. Girls are usually the ones who are all "You make great chili" or "You wink just so" or something else to justify how they feel about it.
Most gamers just like something, they don't really have to tell you why they like it or try and justify to YOU or others why they do. That is because they don't care that you don't "get it". They don't try to convince you to like it as well. If it's too negative for you, good luck and Happy Trails is the attitude.
But on the flipside, you ALWAYS see negative people with a laundry list on why THEY don't like something, but that doesn't mean they are valid complaints. The "NO JUMPING IN FFXIV!" complaint/negative threads are the easiest to see as an example.
Negative people ran thread after thread about why no jumping "ruined" FFXIV for them, while people who like FFXIV thought think they are pretty much too picky and looking for reason to dislike it which I agree with.
If something as simple as "no jumping" is going to make you discount a game, then you were never going to please them anyway unless you changed EVERYTHING about the game to their liking. They never wanted to play the game as is, but wanted it tailored to some image in their own head about what FFXIV should have been like.
That person is just inherently negative to dig that deep.
"TO MICHAEL!"
BHRONN states his opinions of the game which is fine but there is nothing wrong with the design mechanics it is working as intended. My guess is that he's used to the button mashing mmo's and doesnt realize that SE did not build the previous MMO nor are they building this MMO to be a speed sequence button masher. FF in general is about preplan, predetermined strategy. if you want to repeatedly mash 1,2,3,4,5 as quickyl as possible and not particularly in that order then you need to head to another MMO this one is not that kind of game.
I will admit I am a fan of FFXI and will be played FFXIV for the long haul but I have played them all, wow, swg, ddo, rfonline, war, aoc, aion, coh, gw, lineage, eq1, eq2, vangaurd, daoc. All these games play the exact same way with the exception of AOC and DDO who had their niche. FFXI and hopefully FFXIV offer a change of pace, a more strategic approach take it in and play it out you might not be disappointed. Besides what else you going to play, WoW Cataclysm...
That card is not designed for games, and if you have a 22" o 24" screen that use high resolutions you would not obtain resolutions of more that 20fps even in games with low requisites like EVE
That random guy put out more acctual information than you you just stated, and your are refuted with actual specific accounts (and you act like you just didn't get owned and caught basiclly making stuff up). And so you say more stuff and are refuted agian with specific examples from the beta. But no your right becuase you imagine better than the person experiencing right. You statements basiclly do account for those from any other mmo release where there were problems and fanboi couldn't exept those problems. ATM if you were in WAR closed beta rounds you would have less to complain about than FF14 and in open beta war feel apart it couldn't handle the 100s of people on the same screen. ATM ff14 can't handle the 15s of people on the screen, you can TALK a lot, but the fact is that this is just one isssue (and not a simple easy patch) of the many that bh brought up and you act like it no big deal and will be easily fixed. It is not that easy, and this is made very clear by the 30 fps cap they were running. Now add the other issues, the plate of "bugs" bad coding is rather tall for this stage of beta. I have seen worse but they never fixed their problems.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I was expecting screenshots in this thread, not arguments based on what you love and don't, nobody cares about that when NDA is lifted... Oh, and if you go on talking about the client-server relation in MMO, maybe you should know what you're talking about. They won't put the FPS cap back because of server side issues... this is completly retarded statement...
I'm glad that these 2 clowns hate the game, i'll never have to party with them...
Guess it works out for us both then. people who cant make statements without name calling or backing them up tend to bug me.
The FPS cap will be back before launch. otherwise the PS3 gamers will be at a disadvantage. They uncapped them to try to get the network response better. This had the side effect of uncovering a plethora of other problems.
Good day to you.. sir?
lets start out with your first flawed arguement. WALDOE WAS NOT ADDRESSING THE MERIT OF THE GAME. Just like my statement said he was talkign about positive and negitive feedback. So no they are not "discussing the game pretty much on merits. "
And his statements are obviously inccorect just look at this thread or the others on this site. in this thread alone there is a lot of actual feedback most of which is negitive. Actual positive feedback (1-2 post on what they saw in a video). So i mean yeah your wrong now also.
True but guys got reason they like girls. I mean i never hear a comedian , buddy, guy, any guy ever talk about any of a girls physical features or personality right. Its normal , she is girl all girl = becuase she is girl , I don't know why i like girl , but i do she is girl.
Sorry but guys DO KNOW WHAT THEY LIKE ABOUT WOMEN. We may not EXPRESS this but we know why and can state it. I know my girl love me cuz i make great chilli .... yeah enough on that.
But i find your agrument mistaken , becuase as stated people know positive and negitve aspect of the enviroment around them. Thye may not always appriciate the positives enough, however, when discussing an up and comming mmo i usually see good amounts of possitive feedback thast quite detailed and negitive also. But ff14 is sorely lackign for some odd reason (im not claiming i know why only that is very dry on this front so far).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
He actually did state many of the issues and areas that need work. If you want to refute them than do so, BUT DON'T POST THAT HE DIDN'T STATE ANY ISSUES. Has he stated everything nope, but then agian no one supporting ff14 so zealously has stated any specific examples to refute him , even if it was generalized. And not that many people have stated any specific examples positivly supporting this game barring graphics. So You can say that he didn't but this very thread proves you wrong, infact im gonna quote it so you can't lie about that also.
Wow look at that specific examples. I believe those issues are stated rather well, some could be filled out more... He does fill out a few in later posts; want me to quote that... I really should or you may say it didn't happen. But im not going to; you can instead. Look at page one and two of this thread and read his posts.
And to everyone, for the record, i hope ff14 is wonderful. Do i see a lot of stuff that makes me think, crap this game could be very unemjoyable .... you betcha. But we will have to wait and see. However, when i see people placing their imginations of how the game will be over specific examples ... im gonna refute those imaginations and stick with the person offering specific examples. (Becuase reality is your freind, even if he does kick you in the butt once in a while).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Why?
I don't care about the positive/negative BS going around in the thread, but when you throw statements around like this it makes you look foolish.
If you had read the entire thread you'd have noticed his first post was already discussed, up until he gave up responding to questions on it.
I was asking him what these "other" design flaws he apparently said himself doesn't want to talk about.
It makes me look foolish because you dont understand it or because you dont know why they had the fps cap in there in the first place? Are you in beta? Do you know the specs and limitations of the PS3?
I honestly cant go into more detail without possibly breaking the NDA. The wording on it is sketchy and i have several emails looking for some clarification.
But to blindly call me out as being foolish seems sorta.. foolish. SE has gone thru great lengths on this game to make it play the same for PC and PS3. If you were in beta you would see this.
Ok just had to make sure, you have no idea that framerate differences don't mean anything as long as it's programmed in properly, i.e. not like old games(XI for instance) where framerate could determine actual game speed.
How exactly are you so sure of this? Was it literally stated by SE? The ps3 version isn't even scheduled to be out until march next year, it shouldn't have anything to do with the PC until then.
It wouldn't make sense to uncap the fps, ignore it, and then put it back on because it was causing issues, it's more likely one of the few things they're trying to clear up before release
Heres something I can give you.
The magic classes have a finite amount of mana/power. There many complaints about haveing to grind around an aetherlite( power recharge) The magic classes do not regen power out of combat and have limited skills that will regen power. Currently most people use 1 spell because its the most power efficent and end up still having to trot back to the power recharge ever few mobs or so( I say few because different players play different so thier mob kills to power useage is different) Regardless the casters currently are "tied" to an aetherlite crystal.
Even this paragraph might be too much for the NDA. Consensus is we can talk about the game but cant go in depth into the mechanics.
What great potential for a thread turn to rubbish by just one post. If anyone wants some good feedback/opinions on ffxiv I recommed them going to - http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/10356-my-feelings-on-beta/
You'll find positive and negative feedback without any bs.
Thats info widely known and widely discussed even when NDA was in full effect.
You yourself have already gone in depth about some of the mechanics about the game, including describing the input lag issues with the UI and combat. If you were worried about violating the NDA you wouldn't have even risked your first post, but either way with the recent lift, it isn't a violation.
They uncapped it to fix some of the UI issues and latency and errors appearing. heres an example...
The mouse is a software mouse. So at 30 fps it moved sluggishly in beta 2. if your fps dropped below 20 fps in beta 2 then it moved even more slowely or skipped around the screen. the fps drop could be from game performance /lag/ whatever, but it directly effected the UI and the mouse. They uncapped the fps to work on the mouse smoothing and other UI elements. Once those and a few other issues get resolved then the cap will go back in. it will happen before release because you dont want the game to be out 6 months from now, cap the fps for the PS3 and then go thru that shitstorm from PC players.
Example 2... if you were in a fight and your fps dropped to say 20. Animations and input would also slow down. Since all the info is stored server side if your UI is slow, the gameplay is slow. In beta 2 if your fps dropped you would start to see animation errors or them not going off. You would see it start taking longer for your imput commands to actually register and the dmg take effect on the mob.
Example 3.. Since everything is stored server side and the UI performance is based on your fps, if you were to try and select a skill and put into your hotbar, this was routinly taking 5 to 8 secs to perform. The bigger the drop in fps, the longer the wait. Thats if the info didnt error out.
Lag from any source directly effects your FPS and your FPS directly effects your UI. They uncapped it to work on these issues.
Edit: this is easy to test even today. Start turning up the video options so that your fps starts to drop and watch how the UI responds. This is also why some utube videos look like the player is enept or combat is slow where in other videos the combat looks faster. This is also why i believe the "core" game is flawed.
This is getting better, FPS affecting server side drag of hotbars skills... oh wait, i'm not in beta, i don't know what i'm talking about...
FFXIV is very different from the typical MMO that the majority of gamers are used to. This fact alone is the cause of most of the complaints about the game in my opinion. The assertion that the core mechanics are broken or flawed is ridiculous since they can only ever be what they are, their quality being merely a matter of opinion. There are many that like it and many more that dislike it... so what? It's nice that there's a developer that won't compromise their game design purely to appeal to the masses.
FFXIV does have issues, and some of them are serious, I accept that, but to suggest there are fundamental flaws is stupid when the points raised are purely a matter of opinion, even if the consensus is in agreement. This game will likely have the same result XI did; it will be largely unpopular with the masses but will retain a very dedicated playerbase who absolutely love it.
Not every MMO has to have mass appeal, and not having mass appeal does not mean the game is flawed!
As for actual issues: the only two of any major concern for me are the stat distribution system (which is either entirely useless or otherwise defeats the point of being able to play all classes on one character since the respec is far too restrictive) and the MP regeneration issues that are currently worse than the issues faced by mages in XI. Both of these could have simple solutions though so we can only wait and see.
Judge the game by how it is on release, not these beta reports. It is possible that all of these issues will be fixed or otherwise dealt with, no matter how unlikely you all think that will be.
I understand the current issues with it and why they had the cap, it was the same with XI, however that was mostly because the XI engine was for the most part a Ps2 port to the PC. Yet it's been stated several times in interviews with the dev's they had been developing this game to exceed 30 fps, which is part of the reason why the PS3 release had to be delayed to my understanding.
With the cap removed there are no doubt hiccup issues with the server, and that should be what they are working to fix to make the game playable at higher fps, along with as you said, fixing the errors that would occur due to fps drops on the client.
Is this the core/design issue you had been refering to earlier in the thread?
I can't wait until I can finally play the game and stop coming here reading this pointless argumentative threads. Bout time these games started coming out, the forums seem to be a good indication that the natives are restless. ;D