That is absolutely NOT true... You don't have to bring friends along the worlds are OPEN and you can find players running around anywhere and everywhere. They don't instance the world off like that. You don't know anything about the game please go learn something first... Maybe space is singleplayer, but the ground is just like any themepark MMO.
so you are saying that when you get a mission/adventure etc, you dont then go to an 'instance' where you can either solo it. or take along a few friends ? ...
Bioware devs have stated that the worlds will be huge.
Interviews have discussed a lot of the common MMO elements that SW:TOR will also have.
Playtesters have testified again and again that SW:TOR feels and plays like an MMO.
Common sense indicates that Bioware is making an MMO, not any less than other MMO's in the making as a TERA, Rift and GW2, or current MMO's as WoW, LotrO, EQ2.
All these signs that SW:TOR is a regular MMO.
People who believe that SW:TOR is a singleplayer game with some multiplayer features tagged on have the illogical belief that SW:TOR is like that because for some reason they want to believe that, against all odds.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Guild Wars has a big world but majority of all of it is instanced yet it's considered an MMO of sorts. Baldur's Gate is multiplayer but everything in that is instanced when going to new areas and places, doesn't that make it just as much as an MMO as anything else?
MMO(Massive Multiplaying Online) All MMO is, big group of people online smacking there heads on rocks for a few hours trying to prove who has shinier swords.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Did you ever watch a Star Wars movie OP? From your question i can only presume that you never did.
Apparantly you haven't seen it. Space played major roles in the story but not major roles in run time. Most of the scenes in space were introducing big plot points or major battlescenes. SWTOR seems to be doing the same thing, the Sith Warrior kill/save captain flashpoint shows him aboard a ship moving around, out and in combat, while the tunnel shooter is demonstrating major battles in space.
Guild Wars has a big world but majority of all of it is instanced yet it's considered an MMO of sorts. Baldur's Gate is multiplayer but everything in that is instanced when going to new areas and places, doesn't that make it just as much as an MMO as anything else?
MMO(Massive Multiplaying Online)
All MMO is, big group of people online smacking there heads on rocks for a few hours trying to prove who has shinier swords.
Again this game is not instanced like Guild Wars 1 is.... It is an MMO themepark, much like the other ones we have seen.
It is open world with players running around doing their quests. You don't need to be in a group to see other players out running around doing quests.
The space missions are a mini game, I really don't think the devs had intended it to be a full fledged feature of the game. Anyway they were just trying to placate the people who were screaming for space combat the minute they mentioned ships as player housing.
Even as a mini game though, I should hope they will open it up later on and expand on it. But IMO its a good start.
So space in TOR is in the form of mini games? Added as an after thought to satisfy the forum whiners because there was no space in it.
Less than 9 months away from publisment they are now adding a hastly designed mini game (space).
Mmm, sounds a lot to what I've seen in StarTrek. Let me guess, NPC's joining you in the fight on a planet's surface, not being able to freely roam space and land on any planet, Solo missions everywhere and invisible walls with mountain drawings in the background to set the "mood".
Terrible looking futuristic uniforms to collect SF "gear sets" and light sabres that are replacing maces.
Maybe the extra 120 million dollars went only to speech and cut scenes after all.
if you look at the video, in just those brief second, the fully voiced and animated cut scene, the intense combat and action... how in the world can you say this is an after thought?
seriously. did any of that clip look unpolished to you? was ther a lack of adequate lighting or textures? was there a lack of anything real and tangible or just imaginary stuff for trolls to complain about?
people are really going insane i think. go watch moar pron.
After watching the video, it appears to me that their current space flight system fits the story theme of the game. There's a reason why Star Wars wasn't several days long. There isn't a whole lot of story in watching a ship bump around through hyperspace.
It DOES look like a system that can be applied as a completely seperate entity though. There's no reason, in my opinion, why they couldn't add free space (which I'm 100% for) at a later date like JTL and tie these rail shooters into the story like an instance or dungeon.
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
So space in TOR is in the form of mini games? Added as an after thought to satisfy the forum whiners because there was no space in it.
Less than 9 months away from publisment they are now adding a hastly designed mini game (space).
Mmm, sounds a lot to what I've seen in StarTrek. Let me guess, NPC's joining you in the fight on a planet's surface, not being able to freely roam space and land on any planet, Solo missions everywhere and invisible walls with mountain drawings in the background to set the "mood".
Terrible looking futuristic uniforms to collect SF "gear sets" and light sabres that are replacing maces.
Maybe the extra 120 million dollars went only to speech and cut scenes after all.
Sure, they hastily added a beautifully detailed voiced space combat mini-game in a few days because it was on the bottom of the to do list.
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?Originally posted by jp4lyfe
So many people on these forums, and the official forums talking about how dissapointed they are about not being able to hop into their ship and to explore the galaxy freely. Now to those who just wanted full range of their ship in combat, thats different. I'm talking about the ones who for whatever reason thought they could just fly all over the place doing whatever.
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?
Rub your eyes really hard for a minute then close them super tight while near some form of light. What do you see? A bunch of black nothingness and possibly faint silhouettes? There ya go, thats space. Thats what you want? Hell, I can make a game that does that no problem at all... People would pay me for that?
But seriously though I just dont really understand why people were expecting this. Odds are the people who wanted that form of space is the minority here. So are the people who are happy with space. All us forum goers, here and on the official forums are the minority of who will be subscribers. It's your every day average gaming folk who will make up a big chunk of the subs and will log in after getting the game and go "wow theres space combat? cool!" and it doesn't matter how it looks because they were never a diehard, back in the day star wars fan and they were never a disgruntled SWG vet searching for those yesterdays and they were never a day to day forum poster cheering and raging about any speculation that comes out..
They are just your average gamers looking to play.... Who don't give 2.. you know what's about how the added space content works. They'll just be happy that it's there at all. And if it wasn't, I don't think it would matter much either. If the game is good, they'll play. If it's not, they wont. They wont pickup a box and go "okay it looks great! ..but whats this..? No free to roam space? RAGE!" /flying elbow drops copy of game and runs out of video store. If thats really your reason for not playing.. then wth?
PS. Sorry for the semi walls of txt. It's 3:30am and i'm not editing jack. Whats worse is I can't even sleep cause I keep drinking ghetto pop called Mountain Fury that prolly gives you cancer.
"I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?"
Yes. Seriously. That/s what I wanted. No, I haven't 'seen the majority of space'. That's what I was hoping EA/LA/Bioware would show me. After all, Eve and SOE managed to do just that.
i dont think that you Bioware fans want Freedome at all. You want it all on rails and there has to be a cinematic every 5 minute or so, i can agree that it can be relaxing to play a bioware game every now and then. But in an MMO, im not so sure about it.
*raises hand* that's what I want. I want about a 20 to 30 hour campaign for each class. The option to team for missions, some random faction pvp and titles or achievements at endgame. When I read about the space combat being a on rails thing I was happy. Sorry dude... Not all of us want swg pre-cu back.
I have to be frank - what you describe would be, to me, a very dull, little and unambitious game that just seems designed to generate revenue for the game-owner. Are you sure that's what you meant?
Originally posted by Gardavil2 "I really don't understand this demand for space freedom...." ***stuff I wrote***
This game is not a co-op game. Learn something about it before you start running your mouth off please. This is an MMO just like most other MMOs we are familiar with. As a matter of fact I think it will be more MMO than most games. Players running back and forth everywhere while you are out completing your quests. Rarely will you find loading screens, unless of course you planet travel. The devs said 10 percent instance 90 percent open world.... Cannot be a co-op if that is the truth, now can it?
OK, so the term "co-op" offends, sorry bout that...
It was not my intention to offend. I simply consider most modern MMOs to be "Co-op" as compared to the need to group as in the old MMOs, just my point of view on it.
I was not making an issue about that in this thread... I had already been educated in another thread as to how much open world content there will be in SW:TOR.
Unfortunately You missed what I was trying to say by lightyears. Oh well.
and by the way... if the ingame Planetary environments are 90% "Open World" why isn't Space at least somewhat 'Open World" as well? that was my point after all.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
Let's look at this from a different perspective. What if Bioware said the ground content was on rails, guiding you along your little storyline towards the end. Would you seriously be okay with that? Why should space combat be any different.
Sure, there's a lot of emptiness in space, but that's not where the focus is. The focus is on what gets put in that space, and the dimensionality it brings to the content (large space battles, warping to planets, etc.). The same thing applies to both the ground and space content. It's not podracing, I don't see why people want the thing on rails, tbh.
Originally posted by chaintm Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't. There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
Wait... MMORPG.COM told us that we HAD to call SW:TOR a MMO?
***nevermind... I see the sticky now****
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Really... are you knocking the whole space sim genre with that post?
There are many ways to take some artistic licence and make space visually appealing and busier... not to mention a lot of people who enjoy it for what it is.
From Elite to Privateer to Freelancer to the Evochron series to X3, it's a genre with refreshing freedom, ever-evolving conventions, a huge bag of tricks and, yes, real beauty for its beholders.
Now, it may or may not make sense to take that and try and put it into what's primarily a ground-based RPG, but arguing the genre makes no sense just tells me you have not put real thought and research into this.
Really... are you knocking the whole space sim genre with that post?
There are many ways to take some artistic licence and make space visually appealing and busier... not to mention a lot of people who enjoy it for what it is.
From Elite to Privateer to Freelancer to the Evochron series to X3, it's a genre with refreshing freedom, ever-evolving conventions, a huge bag of tricks and, yes, real beauty for its beholders.
Now, it may or may not make sense to take that and try and put it into what's primarily a ground-based RPG, but arguing the genre makes no sense just tells me you have not put real thought and research into this.
Yeah it could be done in a way to make space seem busier. But it would take some time, pushing this game back further. Or they could release it in a few months with what they've shown, people can continue to submit feedback, ask for additional space combat, show your support for it and hope for the best. Because complaining and asking "why, could have, should have" etc isn't going to do anything for the time being.
lol no , no one said "it has to be or is an MMO" but again that comes to the argument of what MMO stands for and that is for another forum in another topic. What this game is , is not swg nor ever will be. Nor will it be anything anyone is use to in the current MMO gatherings. It is, in it's core exactly what the devs said it was, nothing in their vids, information or other would say it is not and of course that is being SWTOR online. You can group, you can fight each other, it's story driven and action second. Nothing there says it is anything but, but alas many think or want it to be something it will never be.
Some of you say "well that sounds a bit boring to me" and you might be right, again if you really don't care for the RPG aspects of an MMO and really never cared for anything coming out of bioware, why would you even consider this title? because it has starwars in the name? Personally if bioware made another after atomic war type of game I would have no interest in it. Bioshock? hated it, not that game play, not the way it was made just the theme it was based on. I found it boring, yet, in all do respect to bioware, They make dam good games just like Blizzard, so eh, it's all in perspective. But to the point of topic.
I think some want to see that full sandbox open space and group game where they fly into the atomospher etc, fact is thou , you can get that out of simulators now and most hate them because it takes forever to do anything. Ok , so let's speed that up and make it more action packed. Then what? The worst part of swg was the space combat, no one ever played it. Sure some did, but the majority took a gander, messed around with it and after a point gave up on it. Was it badly designed? Hell no, the guy that designed it also made one of the best space shooters in the day known as wing commander. It was great, but again not many cared for it in the end for what it was.
I think many that are actually looking forward to this game are looking at it with the aspect that infact this is going to be somewhat linear in design to tell a story. Any MMO I have played does the same thing, throw a ton of text at me that has no meaning except for one epic story arc. Tells me to kill A or collect B and then rinse and repeat.
With SWTOR however, I will be entertained with an interactive story as all of bioware games are known for , to me that is the ultimate MMO . FInally able to group with friends, share stories, have true adventures in a true RPG setting and top that off with a star wars theme? Win WIN ! I say!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?Originally posted by jp4lyfe So many people on these forums, and the official forums talking about how dissapointed they are about not being able to hop into their ship and to explore the galaxy freely. Now to those who just wanted full range of their ship in combat, thats different. I'm talking about the ones who for whatever reason thought they could just fly all over the place doing whatever. I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..? Rub your eyes really hard for a minute then close them super tight while near some form of light. What do you see? A bunch of black nothingness and possibly faint silhouettes? There ya go, thats space. Thats what you want? Hell, I can make a game that does that no problem at all... People would pay me for that? But seriously though I just dont really understand why people were expecting this. Odds are the people who wanted that form of space is the minority here. So are the people who are happy with space. All us forum goers, here and on the official forums are the minority of who will be subscribers. It's your every day average gaming folk who will make up a big chunk of the subs and will log in after getting the game and go "wow theres space combat? cool!" and it doesn't matter how it looks because they were never a diehard, back in the day star wars fan and they were never a disgruntled SWG vet searching for those yesterdays and they were never a day to day forum poster cheering and raging about any speculation that comes out.. They are just your average gamers looking to play.... Who don't give 2.. you know what's about how the added space content works. They'll just be happy that it's there at all. And if it wasn't, I don't think it would matter much either. If the game is good, they'll play. If it's not, they wont. They wont pickup a box and go "okay it looks great! ..but whats this..? No free to roam space? RAGE!" /flying elbow drops copy of game and runs out of video store. If thats really your reason for not playing.. then wth? PS. Sorry for the semi walls of txt. It's 3:30am and i'm not editing jack. Whats worse is I can't even sleep cause I keep drinking ghetto pop called Mountain Fury that prolly gives you cancer.
"I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?"
Yes. Seriously. That/s what I wanted. No, I haven't 'seen the majority of space'. That's what I was hoping EA/LA/Bioware would show me. After all, Eve and SOE managed to do just that.
For me having the space around the Planets themselves... the same Planets where the ingame story takes place ... would be enough. All Bioware has to do as far as I am concerned is replicate the "Jump to LightSpeed" experience of SWG and all is good. Those space sectors were not THAT big at all... you went so far and then your ship's computer told you you had to go to hyperdrive or turn around. That would be the limits. EvE Online space is a thousand times larger than that and I don't think that's needed myself.
Space done like JTL for SW:TOR would be perfect. This would allow the X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter fans their playground, and enough space for the rest of us as well, in a setting that fits with Star Wars where the Players themselves could recreate their on battles in orbit as seen in the movies.
If Bioware does space like JTL it will be, for the most part, a slam dunk in my opinion. IF Sony could do it there is no reason at all Bioware can't do it with all the talent they have assembled for the SW:TOR project.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
I think you need new eyes if that's what you see.
Being able to quest, explore, group, chat with players in a world that isn't instanced or seperated into channels is what exactly? Your typical single player game?
Oh, is it because you have the option to solo,...boo hoo.
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?Originally posted by jp4lyfe
So many people on these forums, and the official forums talking about how dissapointed they are about not being able to hop into their ship and to explore the galaxy freely. Now to those who just wanted full range of their ship in combat, thats different. I'm talking about the ones who for whatever reason thought they could just fly all over the place doing whatever.
I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?
Rub your eyes really hard for a minute then close them super tight while near some form of light. What do you see? A bunch of black nothingness and possibly faint silhouettes? There ya go, thats space. Thats what you want? Hell, I can make a game that does that no problem at all... People would pay me for that?
But seriously though I just dont really understand why people were expecting this. Odds are the people who wanted that form of space is the minority here. So are the people who are happy with space. All us forum goers, here and on the official forums are the minority of who will be subscribers. It's your every day average gaming folk who will make up a big chunk of the subs and will log in after getting the game and go "wow theres space combat? cool!" and it doesn't matter how it looks because they were never a diehard, back in the day star wars fan and they were never a disgruntled SWG vet searching for those yesterdays and they were never a day to day forum poster cheering and raging about any speculation that comes out..
They are just your average gamers looking to play.... Who don't give 2.. you know what's about how the added space content works. They'll just be happy that it's there at all. And if it wasn't, I don't think it would matter much either. If the game is good, they'll play. If it's not, they wont. They wont pickup a box and go "okay it looks great! ..but whats this..? No free to roam space? RAGE!" /flying elbow drops copy of game and runs out of video store. If thats really your reason for not playing.. then wth?
PS. Sorry for the semi walls of txt. It's 3:30am and i'm not editing jack. Whats worse is I can't even sleep cause I keep drinking ghetto pop called Mountain Fury that prolly gives you cancer.
"I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?"
Yes. Seriously. That/s what I wanted. No, I haven't 'seen the majority of space'. That's what I was hoping EA/LA/Bioware would show me. After all, Eve and SOE managed to do just that.
For me having the space around the Planets themselves... the same Planets where the ingame story takes place ... would be enough. All Bioware has to do as far as I am concerned is replicate the "Jump to LightSpeed" experience of SWG and all is good. Those space sectors were not THAT big at all... you went so far and then your sip's computer told you you had to go to hyperdrive or turn around. That would be the limits. EvE Online space is a thousand times larger than that and I don't think that's needed myself.
Space done like JTL for SW:TOR would be perfect. This would allow the X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter fans their playground, and enough space for the rest of us as well, in a setting that fits with Star Wars where the Players themselves could recreate their on battles in orbit as seen in the movies.
If Bioware does space like JTL it will be, for the most part, a slam dunk in my opinion. IF Sony could do it there is no reason at all Bioware can't do it with all the talent they have assembled for the SW:TOR project.
If BioWare began with space like JTL it would have little appeal. 100,000 pissed off SWG fanboys isn't a slam dunk, not with all the complaining they bring with them.
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
I think you need new eyes if that's what you see.
Being able to quest, explore, group, chat with players in a world that isn't instanced or seperated into channels is what exactly? Your typical single player game?
Oh, is it because you have the option to solo,...boo hoo.
Definition as what MMO means to most people today is what we are aiming at, this is not your typical "known" MMO way of things. Even at the start prior to any information the devs posted along the lines of "well , it's really not a full fleged MMO but will have many aspects of an MMO, we are going a different fundemental way in developing this new title to be announced"
Pretty much that quote (or close to it) should be posted and labled top side of the home page of the game.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it. your welcome
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
I think you need new eyes if that's what you see.
Being able to quest, explore, group, chat with players in a world that isn't instanced or seperated into channels is what exactly? Your typical single player game?
Oh, is it because you have the option to solo,...boo hoo.
Definition as what MMO means to most people today is what we are aiming at, this is not your typical "known" MMO way of things. Even at the start prior to any information the devs posted along the lines of "well , it's really not a full fleged MMO but will have many aspects of an MMO, we are going a different fundemental way in developing this new title to be announced"
Pretty much that quote (or close to it) should be posted and labled top side of the home page of the game.
The entire point of this post was I guess when I think of *most* MMOs. I think of the usual you know.. Create your toon and do your quests to gaing access to new skills, new gear, higher content, harder encounters sort of deal.. Thats the base or core to the game. So the mini game space combat doesn't seem like a big deal.
I understand SWG did it
I understand theres MMOs like eve online that are entirely space based pretty much.
SWTOR and Bioware never claimed to be either of those. Not once. We didn't even know there would be space combat til a few weeks ago. I just thought most people would of figured out what type of game this would be from the very start.
And just out of curiosity is it just SWG vets upset by the space combat? Any none SWG players devistate by the space combat? Not trying to hate on anyone just curious.
Comments
Bioware devs have stated that the worlds will be huge.
Interviews have discussed a lot of the common MMO elements that SW:TOR will also have.
Playtesters have testified again and again that SW:TOR feels and plays like an MMO.
Common sense indicates that Bioware is making an MMO, not any less than other MMO's in the making as a TERA, Rift and GW2, or current MMO's as WoW, LotrO, EQ2.
All these signs that SW:TOR is a regular MMO.
People who believe that SW:TOR is a singleplayer game with some multiplayer features tagged on have the illogical belief that SW:TOR is like that because for some reason they want to believe that, against all odds.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Guild Wars has a big world but majority of all of it is instanced yet it's considered an MMO of sorts. Baldur's Gate is multiplayer but everything in that is instanced when going to new areas and places, doesn't that make it just as much as an MMO as anything else?
MMO(Massive Multiplaying Online)
All MMO is, big group of people online smacking there heads on rocks for a few hours trying to prove who has shinier swords.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Apparantly you haven't seen it. Space played major roles in the story but not major roles in run time. Most of the scenes in space were introducing big plot points or major battlescenes. SWTOR seems to be doing the same thing, the Sith Warrior kill/save captain flashpoint shows him aboard a ship moving around, out and in combat, while the tunnel shooter is demonstrating major battles in space.
Again this game is not instanced like Guild Wars 1 is.... It is an MMO themepark, much like the other ones we have seen.
It is open world with players running around doing their quests. You don't need to be in a group to see other players out running around doing quests.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The space missions are a mini game, I really don't think the devs had intended it to be a full fledged feature of the game. Anyway they were just trying to placate the people who were screaming for space combat the minute they mentioned ships as player housing.
Even as a mini game though, I should hope they will open it up later on and expand on it. But IMO its a good start.
So space in TOR is in the form of mini games? Added as an after thought to satisfy the forum whiners because there was no space in it.
Less than 9 months away from publisment they are now adding a hastly designed mini game (space).
Mmm, sounds a lot to what I've seen in StarTrek. Let me guess, NPC's joining you in the fight on a planet's surface, not being able to freely roam space and land on any planet, Solo missions everywhere and invisible walls with mountain drawings in the background to set the "mood".
Terrible looking futuristic uniforms to collect SF "gear sets" and light sabres that are replacing maces.
Maybe the extra 120 million dollars went only to speech and cut scenes after all.
if you look at the video, in just those brief second, the fully voiced and animated cut scene, the intense combat and action... how in the world can you say this is an after thought?
seriously. did any of that clip look unpolished to you? was ther a lack of adequate lighting or textures? was there a lack of anything real and tangible or just imaginary stuff for trolls to complain about?
people are really going insane i think. go watch moar pron.
After watching the video, it appears to me that their current space flight system fits the story theme of the game. There's a reason why Star Wars wasn't several days long. There isn't a whole lot of story in watching a ship bump around through hyperspace.
It DOES look like a system that can be applied as a completely seperate entity though. There's no reason, in my opinion, why they couldn't add free space (which I'm 100% for) at a later date like JTL and tie these rail shooters into the story like an instance or dungeon.
Eh the whole downfall of this game is calling it an MMO, to many are expecting an swg or UO type of game. This is a bioware title, if you like their rpg's then you will love this, if you don't then you probably won't.
There you go that answers all negative issues about the game from start to post-launch till closing of it.
your welcome 
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Sure, they hastily added a beautifully detailed voiced space combat mini-game in a few days because it was on the bottom of the to do list.
"I mean seriously? Thats what you want? To explore space in your little ship? Going from planet to planet? Have you seen the majority of space..?"
Yes. Seriously. That/s what I wanted. No, I haven't 'seen the majority of space'. That's what I was hoping EA/LA/Bioware would show me. After all, Eve and SOE managed to do just that.
I have to be frank - what you describe would be, to me, a very dull, little and unambitious game that just seems designed to generate revenue for the game-owner. Are you sure that's what you meant?
OK, so the term "co-op" offends, sorry bout that...
It was not my intention to offend. I simply consider most modern MMOs to be "Co-op" as compared to the need to group as in the old MMOs, just my point of view on it.
I was not making an issue about that in this thread... I had already been educated in another thread as to how much open world content there will be in SW:TOR.
Unfortunately You missed what I was trying to say by lightyears. Oh well.
and by the way... if the ingame Planetary environments are 90% "Open World" why isn't Space at least somewhat 'Open World" as well? that was my point after all.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I absolutely agree. I think it was a majopr mistake of this site to tell us that "SWTOR is an MMO and you can't even discuss whether it is or isn't any more'. From what I see, this is KOTOR III Online. I have no problems with that but, for all its networking and group play features, it's still a SRPG you have to play - and pay - online.
Let's look at this from a different perspective. What if Bioware said the ground content was on rails, guiding you along your little storyline towards the end. Would you seriously be okay with that? Why should space combat be any different.
Sure, there's a lot of emptiness in space, but that's not where the focus is. The focus is on what gets put in that space, and the dimensionality it brings to the content (large space battles, warping to planets, etc.). The same thing applies to both the ground and space content. It's not podracing, I don't see why people want the thing on rails, tbh.
Wait... MMORPG.COM told us that we HAD to call SW:TOR a MMO?
***nevermind... I see the sticky now****
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Really... are you knocking the whole space sim genre with that post?
There are many ways to take some artistic licence and make space visually appealing and busier... not to mention a lot of people who enjoy it for what it is.
From Elite to Privateer to Freelancer to the Evochron series to X3, it's a genre with refreshing freedom, ever-evolving conventions, a huge bag of tricks and, yes, real beauty for its beholders.
Now, it may or may not make sense to take that and try and put it into what's primarily a ground-based RPG, but arguing the genre makes no sense just tells me you have not put real thought and research into this.
Yeah it could be done in a way to make space seem busier. But it would take some time, pushing this game back further. Or they could release it in a few months with what they've shown, people can continue to submit feedback, ask for additional space combat, show your support for it and hope for the best. Because complaining and asking "why, could have, should have" etc isn't going to do anything for the time being.
lol no , no one said "it has to be or is an MMO" but again that comes to the argument of what MMO stands for and that is for another forum in another topic. What this game is , is not swg nor ever will be. Nor will it be anything anyone is use to in the current MMO gatherings. It is, in it's core exactly what the devs said it was, nothing in their vids, information or other would say it is not and of course that is being SWTOR online. You can group, you can fight each other, it's story driven and action second. Nothing there says it is anything but, but alas many think or want it to be something it will never be.
Some of you say "well that sounds a bit boring to me" and you might be right, again if you really don't care for the RPG aspects of an MMO and really never cared for anything coming out of bioware, why would you even consider this title? because it has starwars in the name? Personally if bioware made another after atomic war type of game I would have no interest in it. Bioshock? hated it, not that game play, not the way it was made just the theme it was based on. I found it boring, yet, in all do respect to bioware, They make dam good games just like Blizzard, so eh, it's all in perspective. But to the point of topic.
I think some want to see that full sandbox open space and group game where they fly into the atomospher etc, fact is thou , you can get that out of simulators now and most hate them because it takes forever to do anything. Ok , so let's speed that up and make it more action packed. Then what? The worst part of swg was the space combat, no one ever played it. Sure some did, but the majority took a gander, messed around with it and after a point gave up on it. Was it badly designed? Hell no, the guy that designed it also made one of the best space shooters in the day known as wing commander. It was great, but again not many cared for it in the end for what it was.
I think many that are actually looking forward to this game are looking at it with the aspect that infact this is going to be somewhat linear in design to tell a story. Any MMO I have played does the same thing, throw a ton of text at me that has no meaning except for one epic story arc. Tells me to kill A or collect B and then rinse and repeat.
With SWTOR however, I will be entertained with an interactive story as all of bioware games are known for , to me that is the ultimate MMO . FInally able to group with friends, share stories, have true adventures in a true RPG setting and top that off with a star wars theme? Win WIN ! I say!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
For me having the space around the Planets themselves... the same Planets where the ingame story takes place ... would be enough. All Bioware has to do as far as I am concerned is replicate the "Jump to LightSpeed" experience of SWG and all is good. Those space sectors were not THAT big at all... you went so far and then your ship's computer told you you had to go to hyperdrive or turn around. That would be the limits. EvE Online space is a thousand times larger than that and I don't think that's needed myself.
Space done like JTL for SW:TOR would be perfect. This would allow the X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter fans their playground, and enough space for the rest of us as well, in a setting that fits with Star Wars where the Players themselves could recreate their on battles in orbit as seen in the movies.
If Bioware does space like JTL it will be, for the most part, a slam dunk in my opinion. IF Sony could do it there is no reason at all Bioware can't do it with all the talent they have assembled for the SW:TOR project.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I think you need new eyes if that's what you see.
Being able to quest, explore, group, chat with players in a world that isn't instanced or seperated into channels is what exactly? Your typical single player game?
Oh, is it because you have the option to solo,...boo hoo.
If BioWare began with space like JTL it would have little appeal. 100,000 pissed off SWG fanboys isn't a slam dunk, not with all the complaining they bring with them.
Definition as what MMO means to most people today is what we are aiming at, this is not your typical "known" MMO way of things. Even at the start prior to any information the devs posted along the lines of "well , it's really not a full fleged MMO but will have many aspects of an MMO, we are going a different fundemental way in developing this new title to be announced"
Pretty much that quote (or close to it) should be posted and labled top side of the home page of the game.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Is this a MMO?
Yes, Star Wars: The Old Republic is a MMO, or “massively multiplayer online game”. Star Wars: The Old Republic will allow thousands of players to explore, adventure, and fight in a single game session.
all that needs to be said until its open for play.
Despite my 3am ramble. .
The entire point of this post was I guess when I think of *most* MMOs. I think of the usual you know.. Create your toon and do your quests to gaing access to new skills, new gear, higher content, harder encounters sort of deal.. Thats the base or core to the game. So the mini game space combat doesn't seem like a big deal.
I understand SWG did it
I understand theres MMOs like eve online that are entirely space based pretty much.
SWTOR and Bioware never claimed to be either of those. Not once. We didn't even know there would be space combat til a few weeks ago. I just thought most people would of figured out what type of game this would be from the very start.
And just out of curiosity is it just SWG vets upset by the space combat? Any none SWG players devistate by the space combat? Not trying to hate on anyone just curious.