I am both a Bioware fan and a Star Wars fan, but I have kept my expections low, I believe this game will be more a
RPG/mmo, which I am happy for, all I hope is it is fun for a large amount of people.. high hopes and huge expections only lead to fast disapointment and nerd rage in the forums, as good as Biowre is they will make their share of mistakes and, will do things that will make some folks unhappy, happens in all online games to some degree..:)
I'm simply going to wait a month or so after the release. By then, if it is a stinker, rabid fanboi forum trolls, and clever marketing hype won't be able to hide simple facts. WAR and STO are 2 examples that come to mind where the hype seemed proportionate to the level of mediocre of the game. It just seems like the only way to tell now is to just wait.
It pains me that space and space combat was a development afterthought for this game. It's called "STAR Wars", not "Ground Wars". The opening sequence of ever single Star Wars movie, including the new prequel trash, was in space, flying around in a goddamn ship.
Whoever thought this game needed to be 95% focus on ground and 5% focus on space (because it's a tunnel shooter, that couldn't have taken more than 1 day to completely design) doesn't tap into the feeling the masses get when they hear "Star Wars".
It's like the lessons learned from Star Wars: Galaxies... weren't really learned.
Well Mike for the most part your preaching to the choir on this website. Problem is for the most part the million or so members registered to this site arn't the target demographic for this game. The target demographic is those who like Star Wars but have very limited exposure to MMO's and those same Star Wars fans who play WOW and would like the familar mechanics but with a Star Wars theme. Not many of which are part of the membership of this site. For those kind of people it would seem SW:KoTR MMO is right on the money. With how long it's been in development with at least 6 more months before a closed Beta this could very well rival Blizzard in terms of quality/polish of the launched product.
Long story short if your a vet from such things as the original Everquest or DAOC or UO or evan AO then yep this game will probably be a big disappointment. If however your new to the MMO genre or you enjoy WOW but want the same sort of thing with probably much better and deeper story set in the Star Wars universe then you will probably be over joyed. Mind you I don't expect many of the second group to actually ever see these words.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
The absolute best part about this MMO for me is how many souls its going to crush upon release. The fanboism on this particular title has been running rampant since first mention of it being a bioware developed game.
I had reservations when i heard that, because i will admit, bioware makes well polished games, but they are about as unoriginal a game company as blizzard is, which is really saying something.
I *hoped* they would would make an actual MMO and not just rehash KOTOR as they've been doing since KOTOR with literally every game they've made....alas my hopes were dashed as that's precisely what they're doing.
I honestly can't wrap my head around why people are excited about this game. I was willing to forgive the slightly cartoony graphics if it was actual solid gameplay, but all its going to be is an overglorified single player game in which im going to pay $15/mo to play. How about no, scott...
And as for the space combat... imagine me making wanking motions with my hand, if you will.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Well Mike for the most part your preaching to the choir on this website. Problem is for the most part the million or so members registered to this site arn't the target demographic for this game. The target demographic is those who like Star Wars but have very limited exposure to MMO's and those same Star Wars fans who play WOW and would like the familar mechanics but with a Star Wars theme. Not many of which are part of the membership of this site. For those kind of people it would seem SW:KoTR MMO is right on the money. With how long it's been in development with at least 6 more months before a closed Beta this could very well rival Blizzard in terms of quality/polish of the launched product.
Long story short if your a vet from such things as the original Everquest or DAOC or UO or evan AO then yep this game will probably be a big disappointment. If however your new to the MMO genre or you enjoy WOW but want the same sort of thing with probably much better and deeper story set in the Star Wars universe then you will probably be over joyed. Mind you I don't expect many of the second group to actually ever see these words.
Obviously you are very wrong about the "target demographic" for SWTOR. Simply put, you honestly do not know what BW's marketing reps are targeting, it's never been stated.
Imo, their target demographic are those who have had little exposure to SW but are WoW fans obviously.
Why else would BW copy/paste WoW's features, everything from basic class structuring and skill trees, to class racial restrictions, and the same color palette even. Walking all over the SW canon without any regard to consistency is not what I call aiming for SW fans.
Nobody should be expecting anything greater than online KotoR with co-op play from this.
But this isn't a bad thing for anyone, unless they hated KotoR. It might be bad for the company, since it's hard to justify a sub on a single player game, especially in the long run. But eh, not our problem; Bioware will be fine regardless I imagine.
So many complaints, but really, no matter how good or bad it seems a whole lot of people are going to buy it and play it. And if it turns out like it's shaping up, they'll play through a few times with a few classes for the story, and quit till more interesting content comes out.
Nobody should be expecting anything greater than online KotoR with co-op play from this.
But this isn't a bad thing for anyone, unless they hated KotoR. It might be bad for the company, since it's hard to justify a sub on a single player game, especially in the long run. But eh, not our problem; Bioware will be fine regardless I imagine.
So many complaints, but really, no matter how good or bad it seems a whole lot of people are going to buy it and play it. And if it turns out like it's shaping up, they'll play through a few times with a few classes for the story, and quit till more interesting content comes out.
Not sure where you get Co-op, singleplayer game from.
It is a true MMO. Sure if you want to solo the game I guess there is that option, but why would you want to do that and miss out on all the parts of the game that require grouping? Really , if you don't know what you are talking about , than you need to stop. This game is as much of an MMO as any game. In fact there is not much of a difference other than voice over and choices that could be made during your questing. You are still gonna see other players running around on planets that appear to be pretty seamless.
Yea , they want you to engage in the story and enjoy it. So what? Other games just throw together any old thing and people don't bother to read it because it is half assed and boring. It amazes me all the people complaining about what is shaping up to possibly be one of the best games out there. Bioware has went to great lenghts to provide people with a good enjoyable star wars experience , yet you still have people that want to complain and make things up , when they have no idea what they are saying.
Well Mike for the most part your preaching to the choir on this website. Problem is for the most part the million or so members registered to this site arn't the target demographic for this game. The target demographic is those who like Star Wars but have very limited exposure to MMO's and those same Star Wars fans who play WOW and would like the familar mechanics but with a Star Wars theme. Not many of which are part of the membership of this site. For those kind of people it would seem SW:KoTR MMO is right on the money. With how long it's been in development with at least 6 more months before a closed Beta this could very well rival Blizzard in terms of quality/polish of the launched product.
Long story short if your a vet from such things as the original Everquest or DAOC or UO or evan AO then yep this game will probably be a big disappointment. If however your new to the MMO genre or you enjoy WOW but want the same sort of thing with probably much better and deeper story set in the Star Wars universe then you will probably be over joyed. Mind you I don't expect many of the second group to actually ever see these words.
I don't understand why you are insulting the people that are excited about this game. I'm 28 years old. I have been playing MMO's since 1997 I started with Nexus, went on to play SWG, and many other games.
You think I would pay for another nexus subscription when the game is over 10 years old and outdated? NO. I expect better from a company.
I expect them to give me content to be entertained with, instead of logging in to a depressing game with nothing going on.
I am not a big fan of WoW. I have played it and the times I did play it I liked some of it.
You have no clue who the target audience is. I guess if you are an MMORPG complainer who stays on forums all day and bashes the man because you want your indie gaming company to come out on top. Yea , maybe it is not for you then.
I have to agree 100% the "on rails" style of combat does seem like their lowering their standards just to get Space into the game before launch.
However remember who we're dealing with... bioware. These guys and gals created great games such as Baulder's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. Now lets examine those two games. When traveling from one location to another you would deal with random encounters, they'd stop your progress and you'd have to fight them out.
Now I haven't read all the details but this mini-game-esque space combat could just be a random encounter as you travel from one planet to another. Then after launch as things get going they could begin to add sections of the game that allow you to travel around whole sectors of space at will. Thats just my thought on the whole thing. I'm going into TOR with the mindset that its going to be a very big and very online version of KoTOR and that dosn't bother me at all.
As for sandbox and SWG, I miss it and I hope one day some developer out there gets brave and makes one, I know I'd flock to it and so would thousands of others.
Wish you could have just saved us some time and told people to just read the last two paragraphs. Blah, blah, blah, don't like space combat, blah, blah. You stated in the article that you didn't want this one to be about space combat...but that was your whole argument. Lame
Frankly, SWG's space combat was boring. While it was kind of sandboxy there were large empty places and few players who liked being up there. So the expectation that BioWare would make that same mistake seems a little bit odd. People like fast paced on rails space combat games, seems reasonable thats why it would be designed that way in SW:ToR. Dont let nastalga cloud your judgement and take the place of what was actually not so fun in SWG.
A trailer is shown, and the world crumbles? Get over yourselves, it's amazing how many people have jumped on the bandwagon of hating/loving this game even before it has started play testing.
No-one knows what the full scope of the game is yet. No-one knows if the space side of things is limited to what was shown in the trailer or not. No-one knows what end game content there will be. No-one knows if everything will be "just like KOTOR". Because there simply isn't enough information out there yet to make those kinds of call.
What we do know is that Bioware have a great track record in RPG's - almost unparallleled Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, KOTOR are all great games, not average but great for their time and place in gaming history, and that as yet they are untested in the MMO market.
So what? You can hate on WoW all you like but it would be hard to disagree with the fact that it is the most succesful MMO of all time, and Blizzard had no experience of MMOs before they went in to that project.
So for me, I'll withhold judgement and try and enjoy the experience of playing the release before making up my mind.
I'd have to say i'm just about in 100% total agreement with Michael Bitton on this. I too was not expecting any space combat at launch, and i'm in that camp of those who feel almost insulted that it's going to be a rail shooter - indeed, as MB said, no matter how beautiful it is. I also agree that were it a stand-alone rail shooter, i'd almost assuredly play it, probably a ton. It's just not what i was expecting, nor would i have hoped for as the space component in a SW mmo.
After the first announcements that we'd be able to own our own ships, people immediately thought the space portion would be more like what SWG eventually had. I think that probably led to a lot of the dissapointment in what it ultimately is going to be (At least at launch).
Now, there's no guarantee that they wont expand on it later, but it is extremely unlikely, depending on how much time and resources were put into developing the space portion. If it was really simple due to some other engine and assets they already had from some game that never happened, then maybe. If however (and more likely) it was developed more or less from the ground up just for TOR, then we're probably stuck with it. It will still have some room to grow, just not into much more than a rail-shooter.
I also fully agree that there is definitely plenty to look forward to with TOR, regardless of how you feel about the space combat. Look at it this way, if you were not expecting any space combat, then who cares, just dont do it if you dont like it once you try it. Looks from that video like they're gonna give you your first ship, probably as a reward after a quest chain, or in order to start one, so probably little to no initial investment to try it out.
I'm still sold, i'll still be playing TOR regardless, i'll just remain disappointed with what i''ve seen, at least until i play it. Who knows, it may turn out to be a great time-sink, and isn't that what an mmo is anyway? Just another thing we do to waste some time doing something we enjoy? So i'll keep an open mind about it, but with skepticism at the forefront about the space combat.
My expectations for SW:TOR are still huge, and at the same time, i think realistic, because of the way i like to play mmos, and the fact that i solo a lot. From what they've announced so far, this could be like playing KOTOR with crafting and online friends etc, best of both worlds.
...so the basis of your disappointment is that you'd rather have nothing at all then everything later, and then assume that by them giving something as simple as a star fox style mini-game that they will never implement true space combat?
You're jumping to conclusions a bit early, honestly.
The Space combat we're getting now, I believe, is only a precursor for something potentially much greater to come. This wll allow them to flesh out the controls, get more ships and customizing options and then potentially unleash a universe for us to explore as well.
Don't think its possible? Look at EVE online and what they've been adding.
I am just looking forward to what BioWare has up its collective sleeves. As far as space combat goes, its nothing. Every single announcement is met by those who have this magical idea of what makes a perfect game, those that believe that they are better designers and developers than those actually getting paid to do these things (it might be true but I doubt it lol). Just look at the way the forums have exploded over omg Jedi Wizards. The sky is falling!!!! Look at what happened with the Racial/specie anouncements: OMG you can only be 1 human and 1 non human for each class omg BioWare doesn't know how to make a game, omg omg omg omg omg.
The only person anyone has to be disappointed with is themselves for getting so wrapped up in something that they have no control over, nor clue of what they are speaking. So many people across this and other forums will not be happy unless they remake swg.... SWG was a piece of shit when it launched, and as time went on, it became worse and worse. Sure we all had our good times, but very few seem to remember that for every one thing that was acceptable in swg there were a thousand things that completely sucked. From the Dev team at Verant to the powers that be at SOE and LA.
I am starting to believe that no matter what is announced by BioWare the most vocal of the community are gonna continue with their temper tantrums and whines and complaints and will not be happy until they can tear the game down as much as possible. I think its hilarious that this site's hype meter has dropped for TOR, seemingly daily since E3. Look at the rediculous comments in the game's hype!!
Zeppelin4 writes: Needs to be more like SWG and less like Wow.
testmyluck writes: Another dumbed down MMO that plays more like a co-op RPG. Just what everyone wanted! Oh wait, no.
Waizer writes: Without proper space combat how can this be considered a SW game?
MacLinux writes: Star wars without Stars (only a ridiculous railshooter) and without Wars (where's the PVP ?) Millions of dollars for this ? I'll stay away from this. MMO's world is pathetic. I'll play again KOTOR I, great solo game, and Eve online or something else.
Asuran21 writes: Not much into originality. Seems like a WoW in space with story. It gets a 4. Guild Wars 2 seems to have a lot of what SWTOR has and more.
And it goes on. It's hillarious how so many people have played the game and know everything there is to know about it lol. My ONLY hope for this game is that all these people that have nothing better to do than to bitch about every single announcement from bioware actually follow through with their hollow threats. The game's community will be far better the sooner y'all leave and let the adults talk about things. Thank you.
Hype falls when people find out the game isn't "OMG the perfect mmo". It happened to SWTOR, it will happen to GW2, TERA, and RIFT.
My hype for GW2 went from an 8 to a 6 after the gameplay video was released. The combat was not that great looking.
...so the basis of your disappointment is that you'd rather have nothing at all then everything later, and then assume that by them giving something as simple as a star fox style mini-game that they will never implement true space combat?
You're jumping to conclusions a bit early, honestly.
The Space combat we're getting now, I believe, is only a precursor for something potentially much greater to come. This wll allow them to flesh out the controls, get more ships and customizing options and then potentially unleash a universe for us to explore as well.
Don't think its possible? Look at EVE online and what they've been adding.
It's pretty clear from the interview with James Ohlen over at Darth Hater that this was a deliberate decision and I would really not expect anything akin to JTL down the line, though you can be sure I will definitely ask him if I get the chance!:
In addition to the information learned about advanced classes today, we also got to see the very first in-game footage of space combat. We read the press' observations of what they thought Space Combat looked like, and now the community is giving their feedback on what they saw. In your own words, can you explain the rationale for including Space Combat in TOR?
James: Because we are making a Star Wars game, we have to have space combat. The way we decided to implement it was to give each player his own starship, because that is a big fantasy - owning your own Millennium Falcon. We also wanted to give the player the ability to travel the galaxy. So, when he gets on his starship, he can choose which planets he wants to go to using a beautiful galaxy map that allows him to travel from star system to star system. Then, once you have your own starship, you are going to want to get involved in battles so we decided to add a combat portion to it.
Keep in mind, our game is all about cinematic storytelling and taking the best cinematic moments from the movies and recreating them. When we decided to add space combat to the game, we wanted to maintain this cinematic quality. To do this, we thought of the most exciting moments in the movies: The Return of the Jedi final battle, the original battle in Episode IV on the Death Star, Han Solo escaping the Imperial fleet in The Empire Strikes Back, Obi Wan battling against Jango Fett in the asteroid field in Episode II. Those are the kind of moments we decided we want to recreate. That is why we chose to go the route we did and to build the game the way we did. We built more of a crafted experience for the player, so that he doesn't have to go looking for the excitement in space combat. We did not want to create a game where you had to fly around in 3D space and try to find your excitement; you go directly into the space fighter game and the excitement is right there. It's like a moment from the Star Wars movies.
Emphasis mine. I think James made Bioware's stance crystal clear here. This was a design decision. One can certainly expand on the options offered by the rail shooter space combat (PvP, group missions, new ships, etc), but in the end it will always be a rail shooter, and I think it's pretty clear they have no plans to go the other direction.
My expectations is the same with all MMO's and most of them dissapoint. However, in no game could the dissapointment be greater than in this one. PK and PVP dominated games where players can buy their success. Is it just me or does buying your success seem like the dark side? It's quick, easy, and makes playing the game totally easy. Pluss, if the game is PvP heavy and PK enabled every where or of great benefit to players, being dark side will become a requirement even if you are good. Case in point, my first MMORPG, Fiesta. Fiesta has become a trash dump for bullies. (Bullying is "repeated oppression, psychological or physical, of a less powerful person by a more powerful person") I EXPECT this MMORPG NOT to fall straight to the dark side like so many other MMO's. I mean it's like: 1. Sign up, 2. Download game, 3. Log on, 4. buy $100.00 worth of game credits, 5. Breeze through the game on hyperdrive to LVL 99+, 6. Go to the best spot in the game for grinding and Leveling up for players who can't BUY their success and BULLY every one who is PLAYING THE GAME THE HARD WAY by repeatedly killing them because you're bored! Dark Side MUCH?
I've seen the patern repeated over and over again, especially in more free-form MMO games. I'm a poor college student going to school on my own dime and can afford dues at the most. I don't have mommy and dady bank rolling my gaming. If this MMO isn't maintained in balance by the FORCE, (i.e. the game managers and designers), I won't pay or play it.
Nothing I have seen discourages me about this game so far. What worries me is the stuff i have not seen. How buggy will it be at launch, how will the economy work, what will the endgame be like. For any MMO those things are what kill it. You need an endgame, thriving economy and a bug free game . If the game fails on one of those fronts, this game will be called garbage. Pretty does not garuntee success, just ask Conan.
...so the basis of your disappointment is that you'd rather have nothing at all then everything later, and then assume that by them giving something as simple as a star fox style mini-game that they will never implement true space combat?
You're jumping to conclusions a bit early, honestly.
The Space combat we're getting now, I believe, is only a precursor for something potentially much greater to come. This wll allow them to flesh out the controls, get more ships and customizing options and then potentially unleash a universe for us to explore as well.
Don't think its possible? Look at EVE online and what they've been adding.
It's pretty clear from the interview with James Ohlen over at Darth Hater that this was a deliberate decision and I would really not expect anything akin to JTL down the line, though you can be sure I will definitely ask him if I get the chance!:
In addition to the information learned about advanced classes today, we also got to see the very first in-game footage of space combat. We read the press' observations of what they thought Space Combat looked like, and now the community is giving their feedback on what they saw. In your own words, can you explain the rationale for including Space Combat in TOR?
James: Because we are making a Star Wars game, we have to have space combat. The way we decided to implement it was to give each player his own starship, because that is a big fantasy - owning your own Millennium Falcon. We also wanted to give the player the ability to travel the galaxy. So, when he gets on his starship, he can choose which planets he wants to go to using a beautiful galaxy map that allows him to travel from star system to star system. Then, once you have your own starship, you are going to want to get involved in battles so we decided to add a combat portion to it.
Keep in mind, our game is all about cinematic storytelling and taking the best cinematic moments from the movies and recreating them. When we decided to add space combat to the game, we wanted to maintain this cinematic quality. To do this, we thought of the most exciting moments in the movies: The Return of the Jedi final battle, the original battle in Episode IV on the Death Star, Han Solo escaping the Imperial fleet in The Empire Strikes Back, Obi Wan battling against Jango Fett in the asteroid field in Episode II. Those are the kind of moments we decided we want to recreate. That is why we chose to go the route we did and to build the game the way we did. We built more of a crafted experience for the player, so that he doesn't have to go looking for the excitement in space combat. We did not want to create a game where you had to fly around in 3D space and try to find your excitement; you go directly into the space fighter game and the excitement is right there. It's like a moment from the Star Wars movies.
Emphasis mine. I think James made Bioware's stance crystal clear here. This was a design decision. One can certainly expand on the options offered by the rail shooter space combat (PvP, group missions, new ships, etc), but in the end it will always be a rail shooter, and I think it's pretty clear they have no plans to go the other direction.
Group missions, yes, New ships, yes, PvP? On a tunnel shooter? Never seen it happen without opening up free roam. When asked about it most recently though, they reserve comment. Even if James Ohlen, or Ray Muzyka for that matter were in this thread right now, they wouldn't release the information even if they had something TO release. I absolutely think we will see some sort of open space combat, its completely possible with the current system in place, afterall I thought this was akin to starfox.
One thing I know for certain is that MMOs are always subject to change, some for the better, some for the worse, in that regard I'm not going to count out roaming flight PvP, or maybe even exploration for that matter, until they confirm we will never see it.
On a side note this kind of combat can give us something that we haven't had in SWG and JTL. Atmospheric flight.
My expectation is for this game to be exactly like WoW only more single-player oriented.
Makes sense, you went into great depth in explaining why. Bravo.
Just look around the industry a bit and you won't need a reason why some feel that's where most games are headed. Whether they turn out to be or not really doesn't matter, in the last few years most games have turned out that way. Most companies follow trends it's as simple as that.
My expectations are basically the same, and they're not of a negative influence. I still think it will be something close to what he said, which isn't exactly a bad thing. It's just not for everyone.
SWTOR doesn't look to much like WoW, if he says he 'expects' it to be, he could explain a bit more.
Single-player oriented, if that's how you plan on playing it. I can't argue with that, they said the game would be soloable from start to finish, you'd miss group content, but level cap without help. This doesn't bother me either, actually neither does it being comparable to WoW.
What I'd like to know is, how?
But he can't talk because of the NDA and all, he just expects it to be like WoW, he doesn't know for sure.
You don't even need anyone to break the NDA to see how similar TOR is to WoW. There is a plethora of information available on this game, including gameplay videos. Not to mention the simple fact that BioWare developers have all but professed their devotion to WoW.
I can go into much more detail but unfortunately this site honors NDA agreements of other corporations so until you actually play the game, you'll be wondering whether I'm right or wrong.
I won't be. I know that you're wrong. Will the game play similar to WoW, yes it will. (In the same way you could say GW2 plays similar to WoW) Will it play exactly like WoW, no, no it won't. I don't even have to break the NDA to tell you that . Could I breach the NDA to prove it? I sure as hell could, and I'm not even in gametesting, but I wouldn't want to endanger those that I know that are. So, you can either find this information yourself by looking up information on the current system, viewing the in game gameplay, or finding leaks to whats currently out there, or you can continue to pretend you know everything about the *limited* gametesting currently going on.
The game is WoW set in Star Wars universe. It's obvious just by watching the gameplay videos.
Combat = standard MMO fare.
Instances = WoW.
Quest driven = WoW.
Gear oriented = WoW.
Raids = WoW.
Battlegrounds = WoW.
Stylized cartoony graphics = WoW.
Dumbed down gameplay = WoW.
How often do you get new skills? Ask your gametesting buddies, since you're not in but know that I'm wrong. lol
I can go on but I believe that we've reached the limit of the stuff not covered by the NDA.
As far as your GW2 comment, unless you were in beta, you can't even comment on the game as we are only now seeing actual gameplay. And you know what? Combat in GW2 looks much more exciting and smoother than in TOR judging by videos alone.
No, its not. The game is an MMO. Every single game on the market contains everything you just mentioned. Get over it.
Comments
I am both a Bioware fan and a Star Wars fan, but I have kept my expections low, I believe this game will be more a
RPG/mmo, which I am happy for, all I hope is it is fun for a large amount of people.. high hopes and huge expections only lead to fast disapointment and nerd rage in the forums, as good as Biowre is they will make their share of mistakes and, will do things that will make some folks unhappy, happens in all online games to some degree..:)
I'm simply going to wait a month or so after the release. By then, if it is a stinker, rabid fanboi forum trolls, and clever marketing hype won't be able to hide simple facts. WAR and STO are 2 examples that come to mind where the hype seemed proportionate to the level of mediocre of the game. It just seems like the only way to tell now is to just wait.
It pains me that space and space combat was a development afterthought for this game. It's called "STAR Wars", not "Ground Wars". The opening sequence of ever single Star Wars movie, including the new prequel trash, was in space, flying around in a goddamn ship.
Whoever thought this game needed to be 95% focus on ground and 5% focus on space (because it's a tunnel shooter, that couldn't have taken more than 1 day to completely design) doesn't tap into the feeling the masses get when they hear "Star Wars".
It's like the lessons learned from Star Wars: Galaxies... weren't really learned.
Well Mike for the most part your preaching to the choir on this website. Problem is for the most part the million or so members registered to this site arn't the target demographic for this game. The target demographic is those who like Star Wars but have very limited exposure to MMO's and those same Star Wars fans who play WOW and would like the familar mechanics but with a Star Wars theme. Not many of which are part of the membership of this site. For those kind of people it would seem SW:KoTR MMO is right on the money. With how long it's been in development with at least 6 more months before a closed Beta this could very well rival Blizzard in terms of quality/polish of the launched product.
Long story short if your a vet from such things as the original Everquest or DAOC or UO or evan AO then yep this game will probably be a big disappointment. If however your new to the MMO genre or you enjoy WOW but want the same sort of thing with probably much better and deeper story set in the Star Wars universe then you will probably be over joyed. Mind you I don't expect many of the second group to actually ever see these words.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
The absolute best part about this MMO for me is how many souls its going to crush upon release. The fanboism on this particular title has been running rampant since first mention of it being a bioware developed game.
I had reservations when i heard that, because i will admit, bioware makes well polished games, but they are about as unoriginal a game company as blizzard is, which is really saying something.
I *hoped* they would would make an actual MMO and not just rehash KOTOR as they've been doing since KOTOR with literally every game they've made....alas my hopes were dashed as that's precisely what they're doing.
I honestly can't wrap my head around why people are excited about this game. I was willing to forgive the slightly cartoony graphics if it was actual solid gameplay, but all its going to be is an overglorified single player game in which im going to pay $15/mo to play. How about no, scott...
And as for the space combat... imagine me making wanking motions with my hand, if you will.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Obviously you are very wrong about the "target demographic" for SWTOR. Simply put, you honestly do not know what BW's marketing reps are targeting, it's never been stated.
Imo, their target demographic are those who have had little exposure to SW but are WoW fans obviously.
Why else would BW copy/paste WoW's features, everything from basic class structuring and skill trees, to class racial restrictions, and the same color palette even. Walking all over the SW canon without any regard to consistency is not what I call aiming for SW fans.
How on earth are they "walking all over the SW canon"?
You mean the game won't feature 3-foot tall Bothans in Chef Boyardee hats single-handedly demolishing enraged rancor lairs with intergalactic karate?
Nobody should be expecting anything greater than online KotoR with co-op play from this.
But this isn't a bad thing for anyone, unless they hated KotoR. It might be bad for the company, since it's hard to justify a sub on a single player game, especially in the long run. But eh, not our problem; Bioware will be fine regardless I imagine.
So many complaints, but really, no matter how good or bad it seems a whole lot of people are going to buy it and play it. And if it turns out like it's shaping up, they'll play through a few times with a few classes for the story, and quit till more interesting content comes out.
lol, enjoyed that.
Not sure where you get Co-op, singleplayer game from.
It is a true MMO. Sure if you want to solo the game I guess there is that option, but why would you want to do that and miss out on all the parts of the game that require grouping? Really , if you don't know what you are talking about , than you need to stop. This game is as much of an MMO as any game. In fact there is not much of a difference other than voice over and choices that could be made during your questing. You are still gonna see other players running around on planets that appear to be pretty seamless.
Yea , they want you to engage in the story and enjoy it. So what? Other games just throw together any old thing and people don't bother to read it because it is half assed and boring. It amazes me all the people complaining about what is shaping up to possibly be one of the best games out there. Bioware has went to great lenghts to provide people with a good enjoyable star wars experience , yet you still have people that want to complain and make things up , when they have no idea what they are saying.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I don't understand why you are insulting the people that are excited about this game. I'm 28 years old. I have been playing MMO's since 1997 I started with Nexus, went on to play SWG, and many other games.
You think I would pay for another nexus subscription when the game is over 10 years old and outdated? NO. I expect better from a company.
I expect them to give me content to be entertained with, instead of logging in to a depressing game with nothing going on.
I am not a big fan of WoW. I have played it and the times I did play it I liked some of it.
You have no clue who the target audience is. I guess if you are an MMORPG complainer who stays on forums all day and bashes the man because you want your indie gaming company to come out on top. Yea , maybe it is not for you then.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I have to agree 100% the "on rails" style of combat does seem like their lowering their standards just to get Space into the game before launch.
However remember who we're dealing with... bioware. These guys and gals created great games such as Baulder's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. Now lets examine those two games. When traveling from one location to another you would deal with random encounters, they'd stop your progress and you'd have to fight them out.
Now I haven't read all the details but this mini-game-esque space combat could just be a random encounter as you travel from one planet to another. Then after launch as things get going they could begin to add sections of the game that allow you to travel around whole sectors of space at will. Thats just my thought on the whole thing. I'm going into TOR with the mindset that its going to be a very big and very online version of KoTOR and that dosn't bother me at all.
As for sandbox and SWG, I miss it and I hope one day some developer out there gets brave and makes one, I know I'd flock to it and so would thousands of others.
Wish you could have just saved us some time and told people to just read the last two paragraphs. Blah, blah, blah, don't like space combat, blah, blah. You stated in the article that you didn't want this one to be about space combat...but that was your whole argument. Lame
Frankly, SWG's space combat was boring. While it was kind of sandboxy there were large empty places and few players who liked being up there. So the expectation that BioWare would make that same mistake seems a little bit odd. People like fast paced on rails space combat games, seems reasonable thats why it would be designed that way in SW:ToR. Dont let nastalga cloud your judgement and take the place of what was actually not so fun in SWG.
A trailer is shown, and the world crumbles? Get over yourselves, it's amazing how many people have jumped on the bandwagon of hating/loving this game even before it has started play testing.
No-one knows what the full scope of the game is yet. No-one knows if the space side of things is limited to what was shown in the trailer or not. No-one knows what end game content there will be. No-one knows if everything will be "just like KOTOR". Because there simply isn't enough information out there yet to make those kinds of call.
What we do know is that Bioware have a great track record in RPG's - almost unparallleled Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, KOTOR are all great games, not average but great for their time and place in gaming history, and that as yet they are untested in the MMO market.
So what? You can hate on WoW all you like but it would be hard to disagree with the fact that it is the most succesful MMO of all time, and Blizzard had no experience of MMOs before they went in to that project.
So for me, I'll withhold judgement and try and enjoy the experience of playing the release before making up my mind.
I'd have to say i'm just about in 100% total agreement with Michael Bitton on this. I too was not expecting any space combat at launch, and i'm in that camp of those who feel almost insulted that it's going to be a rail shooter - indeed, as MB said, no matter how beautiful it is. I also agree that were it a stand-alone rail shooter, i'd almost assuredly play it, probably a ton. It's just not what i was expecting, nor would i have hoped for as the space component in a SW mmo.
After the first announcements that we'd be able to own our own ships, people immediately thought the space portion would be more like what SWG eventually had. I think that probably led to a lot of the dissapointment in what it ultimately is going to be (At least at launch).
Now, there's no guarantee that they wont expand on it later, but it is extremely unlikely, depending on how much time and resources were put into developing the space portion. If it was really simple due to some other engine and assets they already had from some game that never happened, then maybe. If however (and more likely) it was developed more or less from the ground up just for TOR, then we're probably stuck with it. It will still have some room to grow, just not into much more than a rail-shooter.
I also fully agree that there is definitely plenty to look forward to with TOR, regardless of how you feel about the space combat. Look at it this way, if you were not expecting any space combat, then who cares, just dont do it if you dont like it once you try it. Looks from that video like they're gonna give you your first ship, probably as a reward after a quest chain, or in order to start one, so probably little to no initial investment to try it out.
I'm still sold, i'll still be playing TOR regardless, i'll just remain disappointed with what i''ve seen, at least until i play it. Who knows, it may turn out to be a great time-sink, and isn't that what an mmo is anyway? Just another thing we do to waste some time doing something we enjoy? So i'll keep an open mind about it, but with skepticism at the forefront about the space combat.
My expectations for SW:TOR are still huge, and at the same time, i think realistic, because of the way i like to play mmos, and the fact that i solo a lot. From what they've announced so far, this could be like playing KOTOR with crafting and online friends etc, best of both worlds.
...so the basis of your disappointment is that you'd rather have nothing at all then everything later, and then assume that by them giving something as simple as a star fox style mini-game that they will never implement true space combat?
You're jumping to conclusions a bit early, honestly.
The Space combat we're getting now, I believe, is only a precursor for something potentially much greater to come. This wll allow them to flesh out the controls, get more ships and customizing options and then potentially unleash a universe for us to explore as well.
Don't think its possible? Look at EVE online and what they've been adding.
You speak from the heart of many of us good sir. The space combat did look exciting but it's dissapointing that it's not an open space environment.
Hype falls when people find out the game isn't "OMG the perfect mmo". It happened to SWTOR, it will happen to GW2, TERA, and RIFT.
My hype for GW2 went from an 8 to a 6 after the gameplay video was released. The combat was not that great looking.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
It's pretty clear from the interview with James Ohlen over at Darth Hater that this was a deliberate decision and I would really not expect anything akin to JTL down the line, though you can be sure I will definitely ask him if I get the chance!:
Emphasis mine. I think James made Bioware's stance crystal clear here. This was a design decision. One can certainly expand on the options offered by the rail shooter space combat (PvP, group missions, new ships, etc), but in the end it will always be a rail shooter, and I think it's pretty clear they have no plans to go the other direction.
My expectations is the same with all MMO's and most of them dissapoint. However, in no game could the dissapointment be greater than in this one. PK and PVP dominated games where players can buy their success. Is it just me or does buying your success seem like the dark side? It's quick, easy, and makes playing the game totally easy. Pluss, if the game is PvP heavy and PK enabled every where or of great benefit to players, being dark side will become a requirement even if you are good. Case in point, my first MMORPG, Fiesta. Fiesta has become a trash dump for bullies. (Bullying is "repeated oppression, psychological or physical, of a less powerful person by a more powerful person") I EXPECT this MMORPG NOT to fall straight to the dark side like so many other MMO's. I mean it's like: 1. Sign up, 2. Download game, 3. Log on, 4. buy $100.00 worth of game credits, 5. Breeze through the game on hyperdrive to LVL 99+, 6. Go to the best spot in the game for grinding and Leveling up for players who can't BUY their success and BULLY every one who is PLAYING THE GAME THE HARD WAY by repeatedly killing them because you're bored! Dark Side MUCH?
I've seen the patern repeated over and over again, especially in more free-form MMO games. I'm a poor college student going to school on my own dime and can afford dues at the most. I don't have mommy and dady bank rolling my gaming. If this MMO isn't maintained in balance by the FORCE, (i.e. the game managers and designers), I won't pay or play it.
I expected an STO styled failier.
Nothing I have seen discourages me about this game so far. What worries me is the stuff i have not seen. How buggy will it be at launch, how will the economy work, what will the endgame be like. For any MMO those things are what kill it. You need an endgame, thriving economy and a bug free game . If the game fails on one of those fronts, this game will be called garbage. Pretty does not garuntee success, just ask Conan.
Group missions, yes, New ships, yes, PvP? On a tunnel shooter? Never seen it happen without opening up free roam. When asked about it most recently though, they reserve comment. Even if James Ohlen, or Ray Muzyka for that matter were in this thread right now, they wouldn't release the information even if they had something TO release. I absolutely think we will see some sort of open space combat, its completely possible with the current system in place, afterall I thought this was akin to starfox.
One thing I know for certain is that MMOs are always subject to change, some for the better, some for the worse, in that regard I'm not going to count out roaming flight PvP, or maybe even exploration for that matter, until they confirm we will never see it.
On a side note this kind of combat can give us something that we haven't had in SWG and JTL. Atmospheric flight.
No, its not. The game is an MMO. Every single game on the market contains everything you just mentioned. Get over it.