I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
Again, that is your opinion. In no way, shape or form is that proof. 75% of people can make up a stat that supports their theory 95% of the time. I know its been said before, but wait for launch before writing a game off just because its not what you wanted it to be. The community will be what the players make of it. Like-minded people will make guilds and make their own communities within the servers. SWG's community was not so great either, imo.
Having the ability to solo and being solocentric are two very different things. No game released today could succeed without having some solo content. You could solo in your beloved SWG as well, just had to get buffs and be willing to grind.
I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
Kind of ironic taking your post in context and listening to you call console players self centered. The funny thing is console players don't do these types of things, sit and rip games apart before they are even released and climb upon the "my opinion is more informed than yours throne" and they/we get awesome games and are rarely made to feel after spending money on a game that the money was a waste. Yet on the other side of the coin in mmo players you have constant bickering to the point that some games release sabatoged simply off the word of potential players unhappy with the way the game is designed. But according to your research console players are self centered.
As far as WOW having a poor community, WOW has the largest community and as such poor players will certainly stand out and it also doesn't really help that it's much easier to spot a "poor" player due to the fact that they generally try to stand out with comments in chat and of course actions made while near other players, while an upstanding community member will often be off doing whatever it is that they do. My own personal experience with the WOW community in comparison to other mmo's I've played is that I've encountered far more terrible players in WOW but I've also encoutnered far more awesome players because when I played I sought out experiences like rp guilds and the like.
you speak of proof but show none at all just throw out a bunch of random numbers with absolutely no backing source. And with little logic even backing your opinion.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
I know how much you like making stuff up, especially percentages that have absolutely no merits. I also see you have no idea what the average age of console and PC gamers are.
In 07 BioWare released masseffect on 360 and PC. Later came MassEffect 2 on 360 and PC (and ps3). DA origins and Awakening, both console and PC releases. KOTOR .. a PC release too. NWN1 PC only. Jade Empire, 360 and PC. Sounds like they aren't even close to a 95% rate of CONSOLE ONLY games.
I just wanted to pose the question back to you to see if you knew how it sounded to guarantee something you know relatively nothing about.
::Edit:: also, Bioware has made multiplayer games before. They also have the experience of other developers and mythic has merged with BioWare. In comparison to other games coming out, I see no "gimme gimme gimme" from BioWare where other games are shying away from it.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
Everything with the words "Star Wars" in it is overated.
It started with the first movie and continues today.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
I don't think its that big of a gamble. I wasn't too happy with the idea of a tunnel shooter at first, but was reserving judgement until I played it. After hearing DEs Q&A today, I have a good feeling that despite it being a tunnel shooter, it will accentuate the right kind of gameplay for this system.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
I don't think its that big of a gamble. I wasn't too happy with the idea of a tunnel shooter at first, but was reserving judgement until I played it. After hearing DEs Q&A today, I have a good feeling that despite it being a tunnel shooter, it will accentuate the right kind of gameplay for this system.
What he said, to me, was basically a f*** y** since I didn't care one whit for his "tube shooter." They were fun in 1983, when flight sims had to be faked, but there's no reason to have such gameplay in a modern MMO. SWTOR would have rocked if it was modeled more on X-Wing than Rebel Assault. As it is, all they did was make me go from making SWTOR a sure buy to a "hrm that Guild Wars 2 looks interesting." And Having that goofy guy make fun of people who thought Bioware could produce a better game doesn't help.
Of course the retort his assinine "Han and Chewie wouldn't do that" is twofold.
1) The rail shooter is single player, Chewbacca wouldn't be there.
2) Han and Chewie had to figure out the Kessel Run somehow.... probably by, I dunno, "exploring"
I don't look forward to SW:TOR but the tunnel shooter has nothing to do with my dislike. In fact, so long as it was fun and wasn't the same thing every time, I think it could be a fun, distracting mini-game that breaks up game play. Everyone has their own opinion, however, and I agree that space travel the hard way would be far, far more engrossing.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
I don't think its that big of a gamble. I wasn't too happy with the idea of a tunnel shooter at first, but was reserving judgement until I played it. After hearing DEs Q&A today, I have a good feeling that despite it being a tunnel shooter, it will accentuate the right kind of gameplay for this system.
What he said, to me, was basically a f*** y** since I didn't care one whit for his "tube shooter." They were fun in 1983, when flight sims had to be faked, but there's no reason to have such gameplay in a modern MMO. SWTOR would have rocked if it was modeled more on X-Wing than Rebel Assault. As it is, all they did was make me go from making SWTOR a sure buy to a "hrm that Guild Wars 2 looks interesting." And Having that goofy guy make fun of people who thought Bioware could produce a better game doesn't help.
Of course the retort his assinine "Han and Chewie wouldn't do that" is twofold.
1) The rail shooter is single player, Chewbacca wouldn't be there.
2) Han and Chewie had to figure out the Kessel Run somehow.... probably by, I dunno, "exploring"
No, what he says makes perfect sense. You don't see random exploring in the movies. Also, Chewie WOULD be there, as all companions will be in your ship with you. Multiplayer space combat has not been confirmed yet on launch though it has been confirmed that they will be looking to add it.
What you are looking for is something they were never going to provide, and this is the problem with Star Wars and other similar IPs that have had dozens of games created on them, and more than a handful of movies to refer to -- you will always have someone who has an image in their head on what things should be like, and if they don't meet it, suddenly the game is a "failure".
Well, this game isn't a failure, but this game isn't for everyone. The average consensus on these forums seems to be, "If I don't like the game, theres no way it will succeed." Luckily thats not the way *this* game is played.
In time I have no doubt all the current complaints and dislikes these people talk about now won't stop them from playing the game later, even if just to try it.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
Considering all the false and made-up information out there, I'd say it's under-rated.
hmm maybe a little.. not nearly as overrated as guild wars 2
Why is GW 2 overrated?
GW2 is super overrated on this site. Most people don't seem to realize that this game will be free to play, relying only on box sales for profit. Think about that, then think about what type of game can survive using that type of model.
Seems like I'm the only one who isn't jumping up and down over this game. It looks decent, but definatly not as great as its made out to be. The classes, do not seem interesting at all, typical jedi/sith, troopers and bounty hunters. Now, everyone wants to be a jedi or sith right? There is the first problem, 90% of the population are going to be jedi or sith, meaning every other class will get neglected so badly. Another problem I have with the game is how over powered are jedi/sith going to be? To OP, and every class will definatly not be played resulting in a fail. Now if the jedi/sith are weakened to much to give other classes a chance, that won't have the Star Wars 'feel" to it at all. It needs a perfect balance but to also still feel like you're in the Star Wars universe. Seems extremely difficult to pull off, and I have strong doubts, that they will. Lastly, it just seems to me like it is a mirror of KOTOR, I understand they are different games and what not, but to me, the differences are'nt big enough to where I'd enjoy this game.
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
I don't think its that big of a gamble. I wasn't too happy with the idea of a tunnel shooter at first, but was reserving judgement until I played it. After hearing DEs Q&A today, I have a good feeling that despite it being a tunnel shooter, it will accentuate the right kind of gameplay for this system.
I love the way he answerd the "rail-shooter" question. And this is how I feel about the whole open space fiasco. Star TREK was about voyages and exploration, hence the name TREK. Star WARS is about conflict in space, white knuckle in your face action. They KNEW where they were going in Star Wars......never once are you lead to believe they were joyriding anywhere.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Totally not overrated. In fact, if you look at its rank on this site, it is woefully underrated, below crap like Ryzom, and of the upcomings, Rift is crap on a stick. SWTOR will blow those out of the water.
As far as the worries about class popularity, classes like smuggler and bounty-hunter will be wildy popular.
As for "comic coloured", as my other post explained, this is incorrect. This game does not look comic, the screenshots that give this impression are mock-ups.
Finally, it is less like KOTOR and more like Mass Effect.
i like how almost everything you said there was a opinion but you tried to fool us into thinking those are facts. it looks like Mass Effect? ha, good one buddy.
to the OP, i noticed this game had a lot of hype, but it doesn't seem as bad lately. i think it's due to the fact it's star wars and Biroware. they really aren't doing anything outstanding unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past 10 years. the voiceovers are nice, but a lot of people are still going to rush through it. that and the space battles are really the only thing that got my attention.
I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
No, Every Bioware game in recent time do have PC ports.
And you do know the average WoW player is 26 right?
PC Ports do not = PC developer. Valve, for example, is a PC developer.
As for the average age data, that was from the daedelus project, and its actually 28. The issue with that data set is its based off of a survey. What we know from other statistics and polling is that young adults and especially teenagers almost never participate in surveys. So its difficult to take that data as completely valid.
Basically its like surveying "who is going to win the election" at the Berkeley campus. Its going to produce biased data.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
Again, that is your opinion. In no way, shape or form is that proof. 75% of people can make up a stat that supports their theory 95% of the time. I know its been said before, but wait for launch before writing a game off just because its not what you wanted it to be. The community will be what the players make of it. Like-minded people will make guilds and make their own communities within the servers. SWG's community was not so great either, imo. Al
Having the ability to solo and being solocentric are two very different things. No game released today could succeed without having some solo content. You could solo in your beloved SWG as well, just had to get buffs and be willing to grind.
WOW, i love the assumptions in this thread.
First and foremost, i never owned nor had a subscription to "My beloved SWG", i knew players who played it, which is why i know that at some point PRIOR to the NGE, that it was extremely time intensive and difficult to become a jedi, and as such relatively few people chose to invest that time into obtaining that.
As for making up the "over 21" stat, that is well known data. Back in the days of EQ1/UO, you had to have a credit card to play, they didnt sell gametime cards in the stores until several years later. That alone got rid of the majority of teenagers (there were still some, i was one of them). Secondarily, those games had steep learning curves and harsh death penalties. Most of the console types who were used to being coddled by developers and not challenged had difficulty staying attached and getting through the game.
You are 100% correct that no mmo today could survive without solo content. Even the venerable EQ1 had plenty of solo content. Was it the most efficient way to level? no, could you get super good loot? not really. But it did exist.
The difference between then and now, is that you have games that are becoming so solo friendly that you can obtain the same quality of gear with the same relative ease/difficulty as you can grouping. There is little to no benefit to grouping.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I dont know, surely a hard queston with the games that are being put out today. With the new FF hype with its...moments, I have been asking myself the same thing. While I understand the concept of attempting "new" to gaming, the controller thing just does not cut it for me. It seems every game coming out is going to be THE wow killer and ends up...not. Perhaps the "overrated" thing is a new fad in marketing...go figure.
There are a lot of people that are less than excited about this game but judging from your post I can tell you haven't really done your research. If you go to the SWTOR forums you can see on the class poll that class distribution is actually pretty even, about 60% force users and 40% non-force users, which is a lot lower than what I would expect. Bioware already said that force classes won't be OP, the way they're going about it is that if you're a smuggler ect. you're the best smuggler in the galaxy, for story purposes anyway. The main reason people are so exited about this game is because it's Star Wars AND it's being made by Bioware, Bioware is known for quality games and they have stated that SWTOR will be similar to KOTOR so if you didn't enjoy KOTOR then you might want to look for another game.
Yea, that's what I've been wondering: How will they portray Jedi and not keep them OP.
So how I'm understanding this is: If you're a smuggler, you're the best smuggler in the galaxy for story purposes. However, if you're a Jedi/Sith, you're the worst Jedi/Sith in the galaxy?
First and foremost, i never owned nor had a subscription to "My beloved SWG", i knew players who played it, which is why i know that at some point PRIOR to the NGE, that it was extremely time intensive and difficult to become a jedi, and as such relatively few people chose to invest that time into obtaining that.
As for making up the "over 21" stat, that is well known data. Back in the days of EQ1/UO, you had to have a credit card to play, they didnt sell gametime cards in the stores until several years later. That alone got rid of the majority of teenagers (there were still some, i was one of them). Secondarily, those games had steep learning curves and harsh death penalties. Most of the console types who were used to being coddled by developers and not challenged had difficulty staying attached and getting through the game.
You are 100% correct that no mmo today could survive without solo content. Even the venerable EQ1 had plenty of solo content. Was it the most efficient way to level? no, could you get super good loot? not really. But it did exist.
The difference between then and now, is that you have games that are becoming so solo friendly that you can obtain the same quality of gear with the same relative ease/difficulty as you can grouping. There is little to no benefit to grouping.
SWG failed to address the Jedi problem correctly. At first, yes, it was difficult to become a jedi. They never even told you how to unlock a jedi. The community finally figured out that you needed to master many professions to unlock jedi. The exact number was discovered but, soon after, a ninja patch increased the requirements without telling the user-base. That was not the only attempt to make it harder. Soon after, they made players grind out an enormous amount of exp and then made it extremely difficult for players to level as a jedi by introducing bounties and huge exp loss on death.
IMO, SWG failed by keeping the community out of the loop. I felt cheated every step of the way. I unlocked and mastered jedi with no exp loss. I eventually found a bugged spot where I couldn't die. I just never told them the same way that SOE never told me.
I've been saying for a while now, mainly since the details started coming out, that this really is an overglorified version of the same tripe they've been foisting on us since KOTOR.
You also hit the jedi problem on the nailhead. The original SWG game got around that problem by making it stupidly difficult and time consuming to become a jedi. But, that was back in the day when developers actually had some stones to tell the playerbase to shut the F up and not bow to their every whim.
The other thing that will kill this game is the fact that its so solo centric. MMO's thrive on a community, this game is going to have a very poor one, guaranteed.
Where is your proof to guarantee this game will have a poor community?
Bioware is now 95% a console only company making single player games. It is well known that the console community is younger and more self centered than the PC gaming community, and thats just single player games. MMO's prior to WOW were played primarily by people over the age of 21. WOW already has a borderline poor community, and this game is even more catered to the single player console "gimme gimme gimme" type. So there's your proof.
No, Every Bioware game in recent time do have PC ports.
And you do know the average WoW player is 26 right?
PC Ports do not = PC developer. Valve, for example, is a PC developer.
As for the average age data, that was from the daedelus project, and its actually 28. The issue with that data set is its based off of a survey. What we know from other statistics and polling is that young adults and especially teenagers almost never participate in surveys. So its difficult to take that data as completely valid.
Basically its like surveying "who is going to win the election" at the Berkeley campus. Its going to produce biased data.
All I'm really hearing is you make up stuff and say a bunch of things without reinforcing your point. Once TOR releases, BioWare would have created in the last 10 Years 2 titles (not including the created expansions) that are completely PC only. On just about every game released in the past 10 years on console they've also released a PC version. TOR will not be launching on console. Also, BioWares engine has been used in many PC only titles.
As for surveys, again, you'll have to show where you get the information on "young adults and especially teenagers" that "almost never participate in surveys" because thats completely bogus. If I were to say I polled 1000 teenagers between age groups 13 - 18, then its clear I'm taking my information on a specific age range and amount of people surveyed. Its specifically dependent on how you take the survey, whether you want to half ass it or if you want to get accurate data.
When you poll a small portion of the population its used to show trends, you are not polling everyone, but you can get basic statistics on the population trend.
in the middle of a war between jedi and sith, contested worlds were basically you fight for supremacy against the opposing side plus the pvp elements all over the show, you really think it wont take stratgy to take an entir planet for your cause? think you can solo it, perhaps in the 300 years he was gone revan became powerful enough for such a feat, and judging by the latest vids he is indeed back, but you my friends ar humble gamers, not sith lords or jedi masters, and the force will not let you solo the game
hmm maybe a little.. not nearly as overrated as guild wars 2
Why is GW 2 overrated?
GW2 is super overrated on this site. Most people don't seem to realize that this game will be free to play, relying only on box sales for profit. Think about that, then think about what type of game can survive using that type of model.
Have you ever heard of GW1?
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
Comments
Again, that is your opinion. In no way, shape or form is that proof. 75% of people can make up a stat that supports their theory 95% of the time. I know its been said before, but wait for launch before writing a game off just because its not what you wanted it to be. The community will be what the players make of it. Like-minded people will make guilds and make their own communities within the servers. SWG's community was not so great either, imo.
Having the ability to solo and being solocentric are two very different things. No game released today could succeed without having some solo content. You could solo in your beloved SWG as well, just had to get buffs and be willing to grind.
Kind of ironic taking your post in context and listening to you call console players self centered. The funny thing is console players don't do these types of things, sit and rip games apart before they are even released and climb upon the "my opinion is more informed than yours throne" and they/we get awesome games and are rarely made to feel after spending money on a game that the money was a waste. Yet on the other side of the coin in mmo players you have constant bickering to the point that some games release sabatoged simply off the word of potential players unhappy with the way the game is designed. But according to your research console players are self centered.
As far as WOW having a poor community, WOW has the largest community and as such poor players will certainly stand out and it also doesn't really help that it's much easier to spot a "poor" player due to the fact that they generally try to stand out with comments in chat and of course actions made while near other players, while an upstanding community member will often be off doing whatever it is that they do. My own personal experience with the WOW community in comparison to other mmo's I've played is that I've encountered far more terrible players in WOW but I've also encoutnered far more awesome players because when I played I sought out experiences like rp guilds and the like.
you speak of proof but show none at all just throw out a bunch of random numbers with absolutely no backing source. And with little logic even backing your opinion.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
This game is going to be epic. Bioware has staked their reputation on it and they haven't failed yet. Don't worry though you can keep playing WoW when it comes out.I know how much you like making stuff up, especially percentages that have absolutely no merits. I also see you have no idea what the average age of console and PC gamers are.
Heres a 2007 study.
Heres a 2010 study on the average gaming age (also counts consoles)
Heres wikipedias listing of BioWare games
In 07 BioWare released masseffect on 360 and PC. Later came MassEffect 2 on 360 and PC (and ps3). DA origins and Awakening, both console and PC releases. KOTOR .. a PC release too. NWN1 PC only. Jade Empire, 360 and PC. Sounds like they aren't even close to a 95% rate of CONSOLE ONLY games.
I just wanted to pose the question back to you to see if you knew how it sounded to guarantee something you know relatively nothing about.
::Edit:: also, Bioware has made multiplayer games before. They also have the experience of other developers and mythic has merged with BioWare. In comparison to other games coming out, I see no "gimme gimme gimme" from BioWare where other games are shying away from it.
Everything with the words "Star Wars" in it is overated.
It started with the first movie and continues today.
There's a first time for everything. They are gambling quite a bit on the single player RPG market being willing to shell out a subscription fee, since that's their market focus. The space debacle adds to the gamble since that's a black eye they inflicted on themselves in order to cater to an audience that was already going to buy the game. They could have not gambled, put in real 3d combat, and expanded their market and kept the bad press to a minimum.
I don't think its that big of a gamble. I wasn't too happy with the idea of a tunnel shooter at first, but was reserving judgement until I played it. After hearing DEs Q&A today, I have a good feeling that despite it being a tunnel shooter, it will accentuate the right kind of gameplay for this system.
DEs Q&A (part1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyShopOcV0M
What he said, to me, was basically a f*** y** since I didn't care one whit for his "tube shooter." They were fun in 1983, when flight sims had to be faked, but there's no reason to have such gameplay in a modern MMO. SWTOR would have rocked if it was modeled more on X-Wing than Rebel Assault. As it is, all they did was make me go from making SWTOR a sure buy to a "hrm that Guild Wars 2 looks interesting." And Having that goofy guy make fun of people who thought Bioware could produce a better game doesn't help.
Of course the retort his assinine "Han and Chewie wouldn't do that" is twofold.
1) The rail shooter is single player, Chewbacca wouldn't be there.
2) Han and Chewie had to figure out the Kessel Run somehow.... probably by, I dunno, "exploring"
I don't look forward to SW:TOR but the tunnel shooter has nothing to do with my dislike. In fact, so long as it was fun and wasn't the same thing every time, I think it could be a fun, distracting mini-game that breaks up game play. Everyone has their own opinion, however, and I agree that space travel the hard way would be far, far more engrossing.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
No, what he says makes perfect sense. You don't see random exploring in the movies. Also, Chewie WOULD be there, as all companions will be in your ship with you. Multiplayer space combat has not been confirmed yet on launch though it has been confirmed that they will be looking to add it.
What you are looking for is something they were never going to provide, and this is the problem with Star Wars and other similar IPs that have had dozens of games created on them, and more than a handful of movies to refer to -- you will always have someone who has an image in their head on what things should be like, and if they don't meet it, suddenly the game is a "failure".
Well, this game isn't a failure, but this game isn't for everyone. The average consensus on these forums seems to be, "If I don't like the game, theres no way it will succeed." Luckily thats not the way *this* game is played.
In time I have no doubt all the current complaints and dislikes these people talk about now won't stop them from playing the game later, even if just to try it.
Considering all the false and made-up information out there, I'd say it's under-rated.
GW2 is super overrated on this site. Most people don't seem to realize that this game will be free to play, relying only on box sales for profit. Think about that, then think about what type of game can survive using that type of model.
GW1 seems to have done just fine. I'm Sure GW2 will do fine also.
As for the topic, Hype seems the same to me as every other game comming out. Some like it some don't.
I love the way he answerd the "rail-shooter" question. And this is how I feel about the whole open space fiasco. Star TREK was about voyages and exploration, hence the name TREK. Star WARS is about conflict in space, white knuckle in your face action. They KNEW where they were going in Star Wars......never once are you lead to believe they were joyriding anywhere.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
i like how almost everything you said there was a opinion but you tried to fool us into thinking those are facts. it looks like Mass Effect? ha, good one buddy.
to the OP, i noticed this game had a lot of hype, but it doesn't seem as bad lately. i think it's due to the fact it's star wars and Biroware. they really aren't doing anything outstanding unless you've been hiding under a rock for the past 10 years. the voiceovers are nice, but a lot of people are still going to rush through it. that and the space battles are really the only thing that got my attention.
PC Ports do not = PC developer. Valve, for example, is a PC developer.
As for the average age data, that was from the daedelus project, and its actually 28. The issue with that data set is its based off of a survey. What we know from other statistics and polling is that young adults and especially teenagers almost never participate in surveys. So its difficult to take that data as completely valid.
Basically its like surveying "who is going to win the election" at the Berkeley campus. Its going to produce biased data.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
How can something that no one has seen be rated? Who's rating it? What's their basis for the rating?
It can only be truly rated by the developers who are clearly biased so therefore it must be overrated.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
WOW, i love the assumptions in this thread.
First and foremost, i never owned nor had a subscription to "My beloved SWG", i knew players who played it, which is why i know that at some point PRIOR to the NGE, that it was extremely time intensive and difficult to become a jedi, and as such relatively few people chose to invest that time into obtaining that.
As for making up the "over 21" stat, that is well known data. Back in the days of EQ1/UO, you had to have a credit card to play, they didnt sell gametime cards in the stores until several years later. That alone got rid of the majority of teenagers (there were still some, i was one of them). Secondarily, those games had steep learning curves and harsh death penalties. Most of the console types who were used to being coddled by developers and not challenged had difficulty staying attached and getting through the game.
You are 100% correct that no mmo today could survive without solo content. Even the venerable EQ1 had plenty of solo content. Was it the most efficient way to level? no, could you get super good loot? not really. But it did exist.
The difference between then and now, is that you have games that are becoming so solo friendly that you can obtain the same quality of gear with the same relative ease/difficulty as you can grouping. There is little to no benefit to grouping.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I dont know, surely a hard queston with the games that are being put out today. With the new FF hype with its...moments, I have been asking myself the same thing. While I understand the concept of attempting "new" to gaming, the controller thing just does not cut it for me. It seems every game coming out is going to be THE wow killer and ends up...not. Perhaps the "overrated" thing is a new fad in marketing...go figure.
Yea, that's what I've been wondering: How will they portray Jedi and not keep them OP.
So how I'm understanding this is: If you're a smuggler, you're the best smuggler in the galaxy for story purposes. However, if you're a Jedi/Sith, you're the worst Jedi/Sith in the galaxy?
SWG failed to address the Jedi problem correctly. At first, yes, it was difficult to become a jedi. They never even told you how to unlock a jedi. The community finally figured out that you needed to master many professions to unlock jedi. The exact number was discovered but, soon after, a ninja patch increased the requirements without telling the user-base. That was not the only attempt to make it harder. Soon after, they made players grind out an enormous amount of exp and then made it extremely difficult for players to level as a jedi by introducing bounties and huge exp loss on death.
IMO, SWG failed by keeping the community out of the loop. I felt cheated every step of the way. I unlocked and mastered jedi with no exp loss. I eventually found a bugged spot where I couldn't die. I just never told them the same way that SOE never told me.
All I'm really hearing is you make up stuff and say a bunch of things without reinforcing your point. Once TOR releases, BioWare would have created in the last 10 Years 2 titles (not including the created expansions) that are completely PC only. On just about every game released in the past 10 years on console they've also released a PC version. TOR will not be launching on console. Also, BioWares engine has been used in many PC only titles.
As for surveys, again, you'll have to show where you get the information on "young adults and especially teenagers" that "almost never participate in surveys" because thats completely bogus. If I were to say I polled 1000 teenagers between age groups 13 - 18, then its clear I'm taking my information on a specific age range and amount of people surveyed. Its specifically dependent on how you take the survey, whether you want to half ass it or if you want to get accurate data.
When you poll a small portion of the population its used to show trends, you are not polling everyone, but you can get basic statistics on the population trend.
Anything Star Wars is dreadfully over rated..
How will this game have no community?
in the middle of a war between jedi and sith, contested worlds were basically you fight for supremacy against the opposing side plus the pvp elements all over the show, you really think it wont take stratgy to take an entir planet for your cause? think you can solo it, perhaps in the 300 years he was gone revan became powerful enough for such a feat, and judging by the latest vids he is indeed back, but you my friends ar humble gamers, not sith lords or jedi masters, and the force will not let you solo the game
Have you ever heard of GW1?
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.