Dont underestimate Square

Hrayr2148 · September 2010

Originally posted by sungodra
A game should not be released unfinished. First impressions mean everthing in the MMO genre, tbqfh.

An MMO is never "finished." At some point it has to get released. The degree to which a game is considered "finished,": especially an MMO, is dependent on each person.

I payed $75 for the CE and around $150 to upgrade my processor. I have been playing since CE release and absolutely love the game. I'm having fun while also realizing that certain things need to be changed, but the things that need to be changed arn't taking away from my experience.

The price I paid justifies the price of admission. If you have "higher" or better put, DIFFERENT standards, then vote with your wallet. Don't buy the game and move on. Or, buy the game when it is at an acceptible level of "polish" for YOU. If the game never reaches the point where it is acceptable for you, then move on, and let the rest of us enjoy what it has to offer.

People make such a big deal about games. Buy if you like it, move on if you don't. It's a commodity, if the particular commodity isn't worth the price, don't pay it. I don't like playing cards, but others pay thousands of dollars for them. To each their own.

Shiymmas · September 2010

As an aside for those of you wondering where I may stand on this game, go have a read.

I find it funny to come here and see a positive, inquisitive post buried underneath more hate because people are all too eager to jump in the mud and get to slingin'.

Skudd · September 2010

Originally posted by geldonyetich

Perhaps. But, you know, sometimes condescension is justly earned.

Here we are, talking about a computer game. Could there be anything more trivial in terms of life's troubles than this? And yet, some of us feel it's very important to harass those who enjoy the game because they cannot enjoy it. Why?

Whenever we get them to explain their reason, it's usually because the game too slow for them. The GUI is not responsive enough. They won't have hte time to learn a new GUI. They don't like that they can't multitask because it crashes when they alt-tab out in full screen and they refuse to run it into antyhing other than full screen. They feel the game is a grind (they level up too slowly). Their frame per second is too slow because they don't have fast enough a computer, or that computer is incompatible, or they refuse to lower the settings, and so on. It's about slowness!

I enoy the game. So, for me to call them impatient spazzes? Speed metal lovers at the opera? Fair labels, all.

Perhaps. But, you know, sometimes condescension is justly earned.

Here we are, talking about a computer game. Could there be anything more trivial in terms of life's troubles than this? And yet, some of you feel it's very important to harass those who do not enjoy the game because you enjoy it. Why?

When asked why we don't like this game, it's usually because the game is filled with copy pastad terrain, and not just little doodads, literally maps filled to the brim with it. The GUI is garbage. We don't like having a shitty software that crashes every time we alt tab and we don't wanna be forced into playing into windowed mode because of bad coding. And we are not idiots to pay full price for an unfinished product, specially when the developer had 4 years to work on it.

I don't like garbage games. So, for me to call people who do, gullible fools? Justin Beiber lovers at a rock concert? Fair labels, all.

Thanatopsis · September 2010

Originally posted by Werecool01
Originally, I was pretty set on having an AH system as well. But after thinking about it and reading more posts about the advantages and disadvantages of a bazaar system I'm really starting to warm up to the bazaar system. In most games with an AH, the price of an item will become a rock solid entity. The way things are right now, there are tremendous opportunities to save a lot as well as make a lot of profit.

I think if SE are able to reduce the inventory and menu lag, this kind of economy will be very unique and robust as well as offer variation (which is the spice of life!).

Well, Vindictus has a pretty cool AH system. If you buy something from the market, it's bound to you. That makes it so you can't manipulate the market. But it has it draw backs too. Cant buy a thing for a friend. You have to craft it to give it to him.

Clubmaster22 · September 2010

Originally posted by teldath

to me it seems like 1/2 of the complaints people have been spewing about this game seem to be nitpicky complains that will be changed in less than a week.

people seem to forget that Square has never made a numbered Final Fantasy game that was not premium QUALITY.

i stopped reading there because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. Every thing that this company has released since they fired Sakaguchi (2003) was a steaming pile of crap and that includes FF XII and especially FF XIII which is the absolute lowpoint of japanese gamedesign, which is saying a lot. And even before that Square game always where hit or miss affairs. For every FF VII there was always at least one Sukaigi.

MMO.Maverick · September 2010

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

i stopped reading there because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. Every thing that this company has released since they fired Sakaguchi (2003) was a steaming pile of crap and that includes FF XII and especially FF XIII which is the absolute lowpoint of japanese gamedesign, which is saying a lot.

Sorry, I don't know what point you're trying to make here, but you're talking out of your ass if you're saying that FFXII was a piece of crap: it scored great over the whole line of reviews, sold magnanimously and won a bucket load of rewards.

If you didn't like it, fine, but you're making yourself look ridiculous and like a fool when you try to claim that your opinion about FFXII represents that of everyone else. The thought alone makes me chuckle again, thinking of it.

eyeswideopen · September 2010

Originally posted by lzanon
I have to go on the bandwagon of people OVER estimating Square-enix. Been with them since the release of Rad racer on the nes and have played their games as the consoles evolved over time.

I loved every old final fanstasy game from final fantasy 1, (played 2 and 3 on the nes via translated roms before they were rereleased on the gba) till 9 yes i actually stopped, jumped to ffxi and 12.

square enix have made high quality games but they have also made a huge mess of dissapointments. In the course of history as a company they have made huge mistakes, one which almost cost them their company. the final fantasy movie.

final fantasy 5 and 6 were some of their best works. Huge story that revolved around all the characters introduced. heck final fantasy 6 didnt have that primary hero. All the chars had well defined stories save i think Umaro the yeti char. you could have passed up tons of hidden lore for each char without even knowing it.

ff7 was grand in its own way but from there on it started going downhill on the story department side. ff8 was meh for me i hated the confusing story lots of things didnt make scence like when the sorceress is giving a speech how shes gonna kill everyone and the masses are effing dancing and throwing a party dispite killing someone in cold blood. in front of them.

ff9 was decent.

ff10 had some of the most annoying characters ever concieved. (damn you tidus) . FF x2 was basicly a damn vitrual barbie dressup game. Hated it coulndt finish both of them due to the characters involved.

I did enjoy final fantasy 12 had that ffxi flair to it and was a decent game.

I damn hated ff 13 and NO final fantasy 13 was NOT bug free, it had some, parts where one char kept jumping from one platform to another bugging out. Nothing gamebreaking however for me ff 13 was a complete dissapointment (overestemating se) after the years it took for the game to come out since the release of 12.

Dirge of cerebus, parasite eve and a few others were some of square enixs bad games. heck the final fantasy 7 game that came out on the psp was basicly for fan service and was a quick cash in game not up to their normal quality and square has done this a few times when it comes to their spin offs on one of their popular games ff 7 being the most noticable. Trying to add more story to somthing that was done was just a big let down. thats where dirge of cerebus comes from , thats where advent children came from. FF7s plot should have just been left alone. and all that time could have been spent to make a high quality rerelease of what boomed their serise.

Square enix has their ups and downs but by all means they are not the utterly high quality rpg creator as we once knew. Many other companies are starting to stand out. Many now are overestimating what square can do.

I'll agree on everything but Parasite Eve. PE was friggin' awesome.

Shadowzanon · September 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by Clubmaster22

i stopped reading there because you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. Every thing that this company has released since they fired Sakaguchi (2003) was a steaming pile of crap and that includes FF XII and especially FF XIII which is the absolute lowpoint of japanese gamedesign, which is saying a lot.

Sorry, I don't know what point you're trying to make here, but you're talking out of your ass if you're saying that FFXII was a piece of crap: it scored great over the whole line of reviews, sold magnanimously and won a bucket load of rewards.

If you didn't like it, fine, but you're making yourself look ridiculous and like a fool when you try to claim that your opinion about FFXII represents that of everyone else. The thought alone makes me chuckle again, thinking of it.

Comparing ff12 with previous incarnations especially going back to the5 , 6 and 7 roots it is subpar at best overall. Dont get me wrong ff12 was a good game but look at its story, the main character is just there, the support characters of the main 2 were much more important and the story revolved around them more . Heck the same can be said of final fantasy 10. we all knew it was not about tidus, it was about yuna.

Now many people who buy the next final fantasy game is hopeing that se will go back to their roots and release the next final fantasy 6 or 7 in terms of rubust story and all around design. it seems each incarnation the games are getting dumbed down to follow a path, ff13 showing this shamelessly.

Remember ff 6 where when you reach the 2nd half of the game the vast majority of the character development was completely optional and tons of story hidden about for those who explore. you could go thru various playthrus and still miss good tidbits of the game which gave it alot of replay value.

can that be said the same about ff 10 and on? infact from ff 10 and on it started to push the play a bit, go thru alot of chit chat , some just being repetitve of the plot as yuna has to be sacrificed to save the world ooooh if only there was a way to save her, but there isnt, oh but only if there was a way. yada yada yada. (try poppin ff10 and 12 and see how bad they are they have not aged like the older games.)

Garvon3 · September 2010

Originally posted by teldath

to me it seems like 1/2 of the complaints people have been spewing about this game seem to be nitpicky complains that will be changed in less than a week.
people seem to forget that Square has never made a numbered Final Fantasy game that was not premium QUALITY.

Many sane people would disagree with that statement.

Shadowzanon · September 2010

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by lzanon

I have to go on the bandwagon of people OVER estimating Square-enix. Been with them since the release of Rad racer on the nes and have played their games as the consoles evolved over time.

I loved every old final fanstasy game from final fantasy 1, (played 2 and 3 on the nes via translated roms before they were rereleased on the gba) till 9 yes i actually stopped, jumped to ffxi and 12.

square enix have made high quality games but they have also made a huge mess of dissapointments. In the course of history as a company they have made huge mistakes, one which almost cost them their company. the final fantasy movie.

final fantasy 5 and 6 were some of their best works. Huge story that revolved around all the characters introduced. heck final fantasy 6 didnt have that primary hero. All the chars had well defined stories save i think Umaro the yeti char. you could have passed up tons of hidden lore for each char without even knowing it.

ff7 was grand in its own way but from there on it started going downhill on the story department side. ff8 was meh for me i hated the confusing story lots of things didnt make scence like when the sorceress is giving a speech how shes gonna kill everyone and the masses are effing dancing and throwing a party dispite killing someone in cold blood. in front of them.

ff9 was decent.

ff10 had some of the most annoying characters ever concieved. (damn you tidus) . FF x2 was basicly a damn vitrual barbie dressup game. Hated it coulndt finish both of them due to the characters involved.

I did enjoy final fantasy 12 had that ffxi flair to it and was a decent game.

I damn hated ff 13 and NO final fantasy 13 was NOT bug free, it had some, parts where one char kept jumping from one platform to another bugging out. Nothing gamebreaking however for me ff 13 was a complete dissapointment (overestemating se) after the years it took for the game to come out since the release of 12.

Dirge of cerebus, parasite eve and a few others were some of square enixs bad games. heck the final fantasy 7 game that came out on the psp was basicly for fan service and was a quick cash in game not up to their normal quality and square has done this a few times when it comes to their spin offs on one of their popular games ff 7 being the most noticable. Trying to add more story to somthing that was done was just a big let down. thats where dirge of cerebus comes from , thats where advent children came from. FF7s plot should have just been left alone. and all that time could have been spent to make a high quality rerelease of what boomed their serise.

Square enix has their ups and downs but by all means they are not the utterly high quality rpg creator as we once knew. Many other companies are starting to stand out. Many now are overestimating what square can do.

I'll agree on everything but Parasite Eve. PE was friggin' awesome.

Donno for me Parasite eve was ok but it didnt wow me like other square games.. I guess I got more squares Xenogears not sure if it was released about the same time. That game had one heck of a story and infact Xenogears is a prime example of how square can screw things up. Dont know if it was NOT completely translated to english but about 3/4 into the game it just ends up taking a crap and completely leaving HUGE plot holes in the story development with the characters.

Dispite all of that Xenogears was prob one of my favorite games released by square even if it was not complete storywise at the end of the game (the end felt parts felt rushed compared to how the story develops)

If any of you have the luck to find that elusive ps1 game i would advise to play it.

MMO.Maverick · September 2010

Originally posted by lzanon

Comparing ff12 with previous incarnations especially going back to the5 , 6 and 7 roots it is subpar at best overall. Dont get me wrong ff12 was a good game but look at its story, the main character is just there, the support characters of the main 2 were much more important and the story revolved around them more . Heck the same can be said of final fantasy 10. we all knew it was not about tidus, it was about yuna.

Now many people who buy the next final fantasy game is hopeing that se will go back to their roots and release the next final fantasy 6 or 7 in terms of rubust story and all around design. it seems each incarnation the games are getting dumbed down to follow a path, ff13 showing this shamelessly.

Remember ff 6 where when you reach the 2nd half of the game the vast majority of the character development was completely optional and tons of story hidden about for those who explore. you could go thru various playthrus and still miss good tidbits of the game which gave it alot of replay value.

Well, each person has their own favorite games, it seems that if a FF game isn't like the older ones in the series that it's automatically bad in the eyes of some. I myself found FFXII better than 8 to 10, slightly better than 10 and somewhat under 7.

But hey, that's just one opinion. Fact is that FF12 was overall received as one of the best of the series, or as wiki states:

On March 16, 2006, Final Fantasy XII became the sixth game to receive a perfect score from the Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu, making it the first Final Fantasy game and the first PlayStation 2 title to do so. It is also the second Yasumi Matsuno title to garner a perfect score, the first being Vagrant Story. The game was praised for its graphics, scenarios, game system, and the freshness it brought to the Final Fantasy series.^[108] The game was critically acclaimed by many reviewers outside of Japan even before its release in those territories. It was praised for its seamless transitions between full motion video segments and the in-game engine,^[118] and was voted number one for Best Art Style on IGN's weekly Top Ten.^[119] Newtype USA named Final Fantasy XII its "Game of the Month" for November 2006, praised the gameplay, graphics, and story, and called it "the best RPG to have been released for any Sony platform".[12

On December 23rd 2006 FFXII received a collective score of 93.3 % on Game Rankings, making it the second highest Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy VI being the first with 94.0 %.

Can't really argue with such figures, eh?

Stevon · September 2010

Originally posted by teldath

to me it seems like 1/2 of the complaints people have been spewing about this game seem to be nitpicky complains that will be changed in less than a week.

people seem to forget that Square has never made a numbered Final Fantasy game that was not premium QUALITY. Square makes odd design choices and people often disagree with their "Now for something completely different" approach to game design but they always have functional games that work the way they are intended to work. Square has one of the best art teams in the industry, the quality of animation and texturing in this game is impressive and it would be silly to think SE isn’t putting the same effort into the coding.

the technical problems currently facing the game are average for a a recently released MMO and will probably be fixed within a few weeks.

if your going to complain about the game, complain about DESIGN issues you dislike, not technical issues that will be fixed (this is how most MMOs should be judged at release, when is the last MMO that had no issues at release)

FFXIV is defiantly a Niche game, its not for everyone, its for people who enjoying spending their time inside a living-breathing world, not for people who want to play competitively. However, that does not make it a “BAD” game. It just makes it not for you.

I myself find the game to be pretty enjoyable despite the tech issues. The market system defiantly needs fixing, but I support their choice not to have an AH. (AH systems normally reduce entire cities to hundreds of people sitting around a window, the bazaar system can also lead to cool moments of finding “deals” that just don’t exist in the AH system, it does take a little longer to find things your looking for, but who said that shopping cant be part of the MMO experience?)

The combat is slow and relatively boring in the beginning, but around Rank 15 I had enough buttons to push that I have been entertained every battle. It is not FAST, but do we really identify combat in MMOs as faster=better? If so, we would all be playing Lineage 2, and nobody would be playing EvE.

And with regards to guildleves, once you start to party up with other people from your linkshell/guild doing a full set of Guildleves can take 5-6 hours+an hour for crafting, that gives you up too 7 hours of leves. Every 36 hours, then factor in sleep; that gives you more than enough content every 36 hours.

FFXI was a quality MMO, you may not have agreed with its design, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t quality.

FFXIV will be a quality MMO, it just may not be your thing.

Man, you are clueless I'm afraid. In order to fix this game SE will have to first lose it's arrogance, and that ain't going to happen. No, this game will go the way of other failed MMOs first and then IF they make the sweeping changes necessary it will be too late and we'll have rich deep games like Rift and SWTOR to play.

holdenhamlet · October 2010

Originally posted by wildtalent
First I want to admit I haven't played this game so I don't know anything first hand.

Second, I will say that as far as these forums go, I don't know that I have seen such a large scale negative opinion of a game upon release since STO came out.

This is probably what gets me riled up the most. STO was a borderline scam. It reused the Champions Online engine for a freaking space game, consisted of almost nothing except solo grinding and repetative WoW-type BGs (basically WoW in space), crafting was basically worthless and very VERY little thought was given to social interaction and interdependence. The fighting of space battles was basically completely STOLEN from Pirates of the Carribean Sea. No innovation, just theft of ideas and a reused graphics engine.

The graphics and animations on the away-missions were straight out of like 1998.

Admittingly, Cryaptic had to release the game early to claim their bonus from Atari, but that doesn't excuse the state of the game.

I'm a pretty huge trekkie too. If anyone accuses me of liking this game just because it's Final Fantasy (some have already), take the fact that I flamed up Craptic's message boards for the whole free month I played the game, despite being a huge trekkie.

But you're right, this game is getting pounded as hard as STO was pounded and that really is not fair.

holdenhamlet · October 2010

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by teldath

to me it seems like 1/2 of the complaints people have been spewing about this game seem to be nitpicky complains that will be changed in less than a week.

people seem to forget that Square has never made a numbered Final Fantasy game that was not premium QUALITY.

Many sane people would disagree with that statement.

I think he means the graphics, sound, innovation and development that went into each game.

Final Fantasy has always been about innovation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but FF1 was the first RPG to use multiple classes to fight with (which became the staple of RPG's ever since). FF7 was the first RPG with a 3-d world map, which was astounding at the time. FF11 looked amazing and realistic when it came out, but basically required only the same resources as WoW (which came out a couple years later).

You may not like the gameplay mechanics of a particular Final Fantasy (I'm not a big fan of 8), but you'd be hard pressed to say that any final fantasy wasn't a well-built game.

Same goes for FFXIV. You may not like HOW the game is played, but I don't think you can really say it's a poorly made game. But that doesn't stop people from comparing it to APB... lol...

Square to me is right up there with Bioware and Blizzard as far as professional gaming companies that reliably release quality products. I've never played a single game from any of these that was disappointing.

MMO.Maverick · October 2010

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

But you're right, this game is getting pounded as hard as STO was pounded and that really is not fair.

There isn't much fairness to be found if a number of people decide to start a Salem witch hunt party.

holdenhamlet · October 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

But you're right, this game is getting pounded as hard as STO was pounded and that really is not fair.

There isn't much fairness to be found if a number of people decide to start a Salem witch hunt party.

Yeah, I know. People have been clamering for something different in a class AAA MMORPG for about 5 years, and we finally get it, and suddenly it's:

BURN THE WITCH!

Shadowzanon · October 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by lzanon

Comparing ff12 with previous incarnations especially going back to the5 , 6 and 7 roots it is subpar at best overall. Dont get me wrong ff12 was a good game but look at its story, the main character is just there, the support characters of the main 2 were much more important and the story revolved around them more . Heck the same can be said of final fantasy 10. we all knew it was not about tidus, it was about yuna.

Now many people who buy the next final fantasy game is hopeing that se will go back to their roots and release the next final fantasy 6 or 7 in terms of rubust story and all around design. it seems each incarnation the games are getting dumbed down to follow a path, ff13 showing this shamelessly.

Remember ff 6 where when you reach the 2nd half of the game the vast majority of the character development was completely optional and tons of story hidden about for those who explore. you could go thru various playthrus and still miss good tidbits of the game which gave it alot of replay value.

Well, each person has their own favorite games, it seems that if a FF game isn't like the older ones in the series that it's automatically bad in the eyes of some. I myself found FFXII better than 8 to 10, slightly better than 10 and somewhat under 7.

But hey, that's just one opinion. Fact is that FF12 was overall received as one of the best of the series, or as wiki states:

On March 16, 2006, Final Fantasy XII became the sixth game to receive a perfect score from the Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu, making it the first Final Fantasy game and the first PlayStation 2 title to do so. It is also the second Yasumi Matsuno title to garner a perfect score, the first being Vagrant Story. The game was praised for its graphics, scenarios, game system, and the freshness it brought to the Final Fantasy series.^[108] The game was critically acclaimed by many reviewers outside of Japan even before its release in those territories. It was praised for its seamless transitions between full motion video segments and the in-game engine,^[118] and was voted number one for Best Art Style on IGN's weekly Top Ten.^[119] Newtype USA named Final Fantasy XII its "Game of the Month" for November 2006, praised the gameplay, graphics, and story, and called it "the best RPG to have been released for any Sony platform".[12

On December 23rd 2006 FFXII received a collective score of 93.3 % on Game Rankings, making it the second highest Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy VI being the first with 94.0 %.

Can't really argue with such figures, eh?

cannot compete with figures but lets keep in mind about famitsu. of course japanese site for a japanese game, lots of things get edited and are unpropperly dubbed when translated. many things that are common in the japanese culture are changed to meet the western audiences likings. so well we dont have a translated word per word game and our story that we got from ff12 is different, thats garanteed.

good example is final fantasy 4 and 6. both released in the states ff2 having a horrible translation which was remade for the gba with a full translation. while 6 was translated well the gba version was better translated in terms of story.

ff12 was good ill admit that but its story didnt push me to finish it. guess we can agree we each have our faves.

my most hated will be final fantasy 8 and 10, 10-2. My favs is 5, 6 and 7.

Clubmaster22 · October 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Can't really argue with such figures, eh?

Well you could, if you put in the effort to actually make up your own mind (strange concept, i know). When you do this you come up with something like this:

FF XII was an attempt to implement MMO-Gameplay into a single-player game. The result was atrocious: All the the tedium of an MMO-RPG without it's merits:

1. Forgetable story and ridiculous characterdesign (the bunny-eared ladys still give me nightmares, as are the numerous PIGs that run around as an excuse for some kind of warrior-race).

2. They actually thought that botting is what MMO-Players consider "fun" and build a battle system around that concept.

3. Then they thought that mindless grind for hours on end is another part of the fun.

FF XII was a trainwreck and everyone knows that. It was better than XIII but that's not saying much.

sulthar · October 2010

Originally posted by teldath

Originally posted by sulthar

Originally posted by teldath

to me it seems like 1/2 of the complaints people have been spewing about this game seem to be nitpicky complains that will be changed in less than a week.

people seem to forget that Square has never made a numbered Final Fantasy game that was not premium QUALITY. Square makes odd design choices and people often disagree with their "Now for something completely different" approach to game design but they always have functional games that work the way they are intended to work. Square has one of the best art teams in the industry, the quality of animation and texturing in this game is impressive and it would be silly to think SE isn’t putting the same effort into the coding.

the technical problems currently facing the game are average for a a recently released MMO and will probably be fixed within a few weeks.

if your going to complain about the game, complain about DESIGN issues you dislike, not technical issues that will be fixed (this is how most MMOs should be judged at release, when is the last MMO that had no issues at release)

FFXIV is defiantly a Niche game, its not for everyone, its for people who enjoying spending their time inside a living-breathing world, not for people who want to play competitively. However, that does not make it a “BAD” game. It just makes it not for you.

I myself find the game to be pretty enjoyable despite the tech issues. The market system defiantly needs fixing, but I support their choice not to have an AH. (AH systems normally reduce entire cities to hundreds of people sitting around a window, the bazaar system can also lead to cool moments of finding “deals” that just don’t exist in the AH system, it does take a little longer to find things your looking for, but who said that shopping cant be part of the MMO experience?)

The combat is slow and relatively boring in the beginning, but around Rank 15 I had enough buttons to push that I have been entertained every battle. It is not FAST, but do we really identify combat in MMOs as faster=better? If so, we would all be playing Lineage 2, and nobody would be playing EvE.

And with regards to guildleves, once you start to party up with other people from your linkshell/guild doing a full set of Guildleves can take 5-6 hours+an hour for crafting, that gives you up too 7 hours of leves. Every 36 hours, then factor in sleep; that gives you more than enough content every 36 hours.

FFXI was a quality MMO, you may not have agreed with its design, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t quality.

FFXIV will be a quality MMO, it just may not be your thing.

Again with the ' this game is not for you' argument... I am tired of it. When do faboi will understand it is not an argument, this is a MMO ( multy MASSIVE online) that means it must please the masses, and ofr noe it doesnt.

Thats not what MASSIVLY stands for, it doesnt mean you cant have a Niche MMO . There is nothing in the Guidelines of Entertainment production that says "you must make your entertainment appeal to anyone". If that where true, we would all be watching Avatar reruns, listening to justin-beiber and reading Harry Potter and Twilight ALL DAY LONG. Because everyone would just do what is popular

And its doesnt mean it has to be appealing to NOONE. Niche is just a new way to say sorry guys we mess up our game but a few fanboi will make it appear like a good game. And what is wrong about Harry potter? the book did start a new wave of fantasy writing, wich is good or bad and made millions of kid read wich they were not before... AND twilight... guess there are some major misshaps in history.

And yes you are a fanboi ... you did answer ot all negative post in this discusion, repeating over and over same sophist arguments...

BarryManilow · October 2010

Game has alot of promise, however I am finding it increasingly more frustrating then fun. As you level up, and your out-level your gear and try to craft your gear or buy new gear it's almost impossible to find anything worthwhile. With no AH, it's very hard to find what you need. I actually spent I mean wasted an hour in the bazaar looking for an item or anything of use and found nothing.

I really hope the Devs can fix the game because I do love it so far, but with +10 years of MMO experience from other games. You think SE would at least give us the basics that is expected in a MMORPG. For example, no banking system. I have never played a MMO without one. There might be one out there without a banking system, but I never played it. No mail system, no housing which would help to store stuff to craft or just save.

Also I am disappointed that the landscape seems to be copied and pasted throughout the world. You may not noticed at first but if you play it long enough you will see the same damn landscapes here and there. It's lazy design, pure and simple. The movement also seems restrictive. Can't jump or even climb down a 1 foot mound. Well, we can't jump, I miss that alot

UI is slow, hard to learn for newer players, and did I say slow? Also, It should not take a person 5 minutes to repair his own armor and stuff, of course in order to repair your own stuff you have to be equally skilled crafter for that given piece. Have a wand to repair? Well make sure to have carpentery. So later on in the game, lets say when you are 30th level you either pay an NPC and he will charge you an outrageous amount of Gil to fix it to just 75%, trust some other player with your valuable items and hope he doesnt rip you off, just have a high level carpenter to fix that wand. Oh and that doesn't include your armor which is most likely cloth-based, and guess what, being a carpenter will not fix that. So you have to work that weaver job up. Get my frustration here.

Which somes to my next rant. Why do we have to repair so often?! Grind for 15-20 minutes on mobs or quests, and you start to wear down your gear. Meaning, you will be less effective stat-wise and damage/defense-wise. We should not be penalizied this bad. Would be one thing if our gear took a hit if we died. But gear wears down, no matter what you do. Be it mining, crafting, fighting mobs, whatever you are wearing it will get beat down. So do what the 1 week old Vets do, craft and harvest naked :P

Other then that, I love the graphics and it seems like it will be a decent game 6 months from now. When the kinks are worked out.

I will stick it out and hope for the best but come on SE make this PvE game more like a true PvE game. GIve us the basics that is expected in a rich PvE game. If it was in FFXI why not have it here.

Kaocan · October 2010

Originally posted by sulthar
And its doesnt mean it has to be appealing to NOONE. Niche is just a new way to say sorry guys we mess up our game but a few fanboi will make it appear like a good game. And what is wrong about Harry potter? the book did start a new wave of fantasy writing, wich is good or bad and made millions of kid read wich they were not before... AND twilight... guess there are some major misshaps in history.

And yes you are a fanboi ... you did answer ot all negative post in this discusion, repeating over and over same sophist arguments...

Here is what I love about some people on these forums. Take this one for instance shall we. Over the past 30 days his contribution is 26 posts, of those 26 posts 21 of them were in the FFXIV forums and all of those were negative and filled with flames and calling others names or fanbois as he would feel its his duty to inform us all how much he hates this game. Two of those 26 were not negative (he musta been bored on those). And here are the last 3 of those 26, I'll let you see the humor in them yourself.

Originally posted by sulthar

I bet those infamous abusive persons got you and now you need to QQ it. Stop that wow hater, play your 'better games' and leave WOW alone.

Originally posted by sulthar

Seems sandboxes arent made for you... leave the one that like em alone.

Originally posted by sulthar

Why the hell do you even read Wow forums... damn Wow hater, get a life and read second life forums instead.

Ironic isn't it. :-)

Bigdaddyx · October 2010

Originally posted by sulthar
And its doesnt mean it has to be appealing to NOONE. Niche is just a new way to say sorry guys we mess up our game but a few fanboi will make it appear like a good game. And what is wrong about Harry potter? the book did start a new wave of fantasy writing, wich is good or bad and made millions of kid read wich they were not before... AND twilight... guess there are some major misshaps in history.

And yes you are a fanboi ... you did answer ot all negative post in this discusion, repeating over and over same sophist arguments...

Movies are also made for masses. Does everyone likes the same movie you do? There are plenty of people in world who think Godfather is crap. Hell i get into argument with friends over Inception who think its a masterpeice. But that is fine with me. Why? people like different things. I don't try to look them down because they have different taste. Same for MMOS, music or books.

Also i don't understand that 'its appealing to no one'. If it was true, servers would be empty by now. Call it niche or different but fact remains. this game is not for everyone. And no it is not an EXCUSE, its a truth of life. Different strokes for different folkes. Some people over here really need to get in touch with reality. I am surprised, with an attitude like that, how you go by in your daily life.

Also its extremely ironic that you are fan of WOW and calling everyone fanboi here on FF XIV forums.

/sigh.

WSIMike · October 2010

Originally posted by teldath

Edit: And to respond to what you said below:

"almost every single MMO these days is released before it should have been; Aion, WAR, AoC, Vanguard,darkfall... ALL of them where not complete at release. infact, i cant think of a single game that WAS complete at launch."

It doesn't make it ok. Those games you list suffered greatly because of their release. The model those games followed should be lambasted, not used as a good example of why this game should not be underestimated.

I view it a bit differently, games these days take Millions and millions of dollars to make, and they require much more effort in order for them to compete. I think that MMOs shipping unfinished is something that will are going to have to get use to, its just the way its gonna work from now on. If anything, the situation is only going to get worse.

That's an awful cynical view, and one could argue that yours is the type of "oh well, it's going to happen anyway" mentality that empowers companies to continue doing so.

However, I'm just kind of curious about something...

Would you defend a MMO you don't like and aren't interested in, under similar circumstances, with the kind of arguments as you have been using for FFXIV in this thread?

Or, do you say this now only because it happens to be a game you like in the line of fire?

I tend to find that a number of people on forums like this will excuse and justify certain things with a game they like, but then lambast other games that they don't like under exactly the same circumstances.

For just one example, I've seen people who bashed WAR for its problems, yet defended AoC to the sky for the very same issues.

Just wondering how consistently you would keep that point-of-view if you *didn't* like FFXIV.

WSIMike · October 2010

Originally posted by vmoped
It's interesting that all the fans of the game say it is a "niche" game, yet the developers claimed a game with "mass apeal for the casual gaming audience". I wonder if anyone really knows who this game was made for. It seems the creators and fans are at odds with one another on this point. I will say that it feels like the game was released to be tested by the PC audience in order to enhance the experience for the PS3 release (and subsequently the PC audience as well). I am honestly quite tired of paying to play betas at this point. I really have to say that SE has become a very disappointing developer both with this title and FFXIII.

Cheers!

More "mass appeal for the more casual playerbase" is what SE was intending/hoping to get for FFXIV - and they have said so many times, I agree. Calling it "niche" is just one excuse some fans are using of why SE (at least so far) has failed in thei objective. In fact... a defense like "well, it's a niche game" is actually a concession that SE has, thus far, failed in their objective to reach a larger, more casual playerbase.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not bashing the game. I was excited for it, pre-ordered the CE as soon as pre-orders were available, and am still going to give it time to bake before playing it any further. However, there are issues I have with the game that really can't be - or at least are highly unlikely to be - patched in later. Uninspired, arbitrary and repetitive environment design in the current areas being one.

That said... I do notice that many of the people defending the way the game is right now are really stretching to do so.

Malvious2 · October 2010

L O L these threads seem to keep comming in......

Howdy, Stranger!

Dont underestimate Square

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Dont underestimate Square

Comments