Something cheap like 7$ or whatever. Even if they made 1$ a month "profit" per subscriber they would still make a killing without worring about charging for extra content like dungeons and stuff like that.
Then could still make their cash on fluff items and expansions on top of that.
I would prefer this option over possibly paying for periodic content thats NOT an expantion.
They should not :
ArenaNet’s Global Brand Director, Chris Lye, sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
I really like the idea of paying for additional content, its much fairer then subscriptions.... and widely accepted in all game genres accept MMO's
I do not like Chris Lye's spin on it all. They are tiptoeing around the concept of not providing things in your cash shop that provide in-game advantages (xp boosters for example) and then they try to turn it around and imply that they would only charge for things because the FANS want it, and because their #1 goal is what the FANS want... not because they want to find ways to make money post-release.
I would much rather he just be honest and admit that GW2 as an MMO will not be able to sustain itself without heavy micro-transaction business.
What's not to like? Experience boosts, for example, have been rendered pretty much moot with the flat leveling curve (same time to level from 29 - 30 as from 79 - 80), so if people do demand them be available for purchase why not have them... after all they won't provide any real advantages. (Keep in mind that level isn't nearly as big a deal in GW2 as it is in other games with the scaling and all that). If people want a handful of dungeons in a "dungeon pack" through the store, it would be silly to not leave that option open (great way to add content between expansions).
We know that there are at least what... five elder dragons in the world? Six maybe? This first go is against Zhaitan, leaving the potential for four or five major expansions in the future with regards to the dragons alone, so expect major content purchases in the future (expansions).
Guild Wars did quite well with the no-sub-fee, some cosmetic micros model... they've made enough money to still be going strong and allow for GW2 to be developed. They're doing something right without milking the customer.
If exp boosts were rendered moot there would be no point in providing them in the first place. Obviously they are of significant benefit because a player has to waste less time leveling. It is the equivalent of buying a powerleveling service to take care of a portion of your leveling.
Let's put it this way, GW1 didn't do so well that anet could have funded GW2 on their own. It was profitable, but without NCsoft funding them they could not make GW2 to the scale that they are.
If they were truly dedicated to providing you as much content as possible without nickel and diming you they probably wouldn't have microtransactions at all. But they understand that people are tolerant of microtransactions and it is a method to make extra money.
Subscriptions almost make you have to play the game in order to get your money's worth. With one time purchases you don't get that feeling of obligation because of the monthly fee.
Never had that feeling, personally. At most its $15 a month. Not nearly enough to be concerned with. Have you seen the price of first run movie tickets lately? ^^
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
Subscriptions almost make you have to play the game in order to get your money's worth. With one time purchases you don't get that feeling of obligation because of the monthly fee.
Never had that feeling, personally. At most its $15 a month. Not nearly enough to be concerned with. Have you seen the price of first run movie tickets lately? ^^
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
You don't even need to grind to raid in WoW these days.... it's a matter of learning the game, even if you don't want to spend hours inside ICC cause you don't have the time or the interest or w/e, you can still go in there and hammer out the first wing shortly in a pug.
Subscriptions almost make you have to play the game in order to get your money's worth. With one time purchases you don't get that feeling of obligation because of the monthly fee.
Never had that feeling, personally. At most its $15 a month. Not nearly enough to be concerned with. Have you seen the price of first run movie tickets lately? ^^
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
You don't even need to grind to raid in WoW these days.... it's a matter of learning the game, even if you don't want to spend hours inside ICC cause you don't have the time or the interest or w/e, you can still go in there and hammer out the first wing shortly in a pug.
It's not even about the gear or anything, I was and am just tired of the whole raid scene; been so for a couple of years. BC pretty much killed my interest of raiding. Plus I hate pug raids, I mean really really hate pug raids. I did all of mine in guild. I suppose the overall point is that if you enjoy the game enough to pay the subcription fee than it is worth it for you.
what is wrong with you all for 1 gwars made so much money i rember when itlaunched and they made like 80 million on launch there system is great why would they need to chainge it just buy the damn game jesus save your pennys do away with subscriptions thats a thing of the past
Subscriptions almost make you have to play the game in order to get your money's worth. With one time purchases you don't get that feeling of obligation because of the monthly fee.
Never had that feeling, personally. At most its $15 a month. Not nearly enough to be concerned with. Have you seen the price of first run movie tickets lately? ^^
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
You don't even need to grind to raid in WoW these days.... it's a matter of learning the game, even if you don't want to spend hours inside ICC cause you don't have the time or the interest or w/e, you can still go in there and hammer out the first wing shortly in a pug.
I've not raided in years now. I seriously burned out in MC, and these days I lack the focus and time for raiding. I just run my five 80's up to cap, use Dungeon Finder to run through the heroics and gear them up from drops and tokens. Then I take a vacation until there is something else to do.
Subscriptions almost make you have to play the game in order to get your money's worth. With one time purchases you don't get that feeling of obligation because of the monthly fee.
Never had that feeling, personally. At most its $15 a month. Not nearly enough to be concerned with. Have you seen the price of first run movie tickets lately? ^^
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
You don't even need to grind to raid in WoW these days.... it's a matter of learning the game, even if you don't want to spend hours inside ICC cause you don't have the time or the interest or w/e, you can still go in there and hammer out the first wing shortly in a pug.
I've not raided in years now. I seriously burned out in MC, and these days I lack the focus and time for raiding. I just run my five 80's up to cap, use Dungeon Finder to run through the heroics and gear them up from drops and tokens. Then I take a vacation until there is something else to do.
Raiding in MC is a lot different than it is now, the game has become much more casual friendly with 25man or 10man raids, and the content is significantly easier in normal modes.
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
How would they not lose customers if they already stated the game will have no sub and then they came out and said it would require a sub? They would have lost me right there by being liars.
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
Didn't APB try something similar? That went well for them, right. Can't just blame the payment method but few people though it was a good idea. Either you pay a certain fee every month, every third month or every year, or you pay for box and expansions like in Guildwars. A RMT shop seems to show up in every game anyways, no matter what method they use to pay so I think they should continue as before.
I do worry that O'Brien will become greedy now that Strain is gone, he was the real opponents to extremely high fees, and the fact that GW2 have a huge number of people working to it means they need to get in a lot of more money.
The first GW did fine, it sold almost 7 million boxes to about 4,5 million accounts but I have a feeling this game will need 15 million copies sold to get in the money for making it, if not they will start selling more and more things in that RMT shop. 15 million copies might actually be possible but if they become greedy they will loose in the end, ask Cryptic.
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
AOL games are a thing of the past my friend.
dont know what aol games are but the fact it is a past doesnt mean it cant be applied nowadays, you havent answered my question and that is would such payment be good fair or bad unfair
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
How would they not lose customers if they already stated the game will have no sub and then they came out and said it would require a sub? They would have lost me right there by being liars.
read again...i wrote "they would loose consumers" ... you probably misread something
seems to me the only way to make there money back and not piss to many off is follow a free 2 play model . One where u sell the game in box then charge for micro transactions which sounds like gw 2 is gonna do.
Games have to have some way to make income past box sales in today's market. And since the gw people seem to go with the we wont make our game more grindy or force players to have to buy to get places its not a bad idea. U can still offer xp boosts and other things that make the guy who wont play alot in a week.
Add some stuff like outfits and mounts and stuff thats more glitz then game breaking and u have a nice model where they can keep there ideals as a game company and not alienate there community while getting players to pay something so there game is a financial success.
Lets face it blizzard with there spectral horse thigny and there companions have shown u can make a pretty penny offering stuff thats mostly cosmetic in a micro transaction format and make some money without being a pay to win game.
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
How would they not lose customers if they already stated the game will have no sub and then they came out and said it would require a sub? They would have lost me right there by being liars.
read again...i wrote "they would loose consumers" ... you probably misread something
Didn't APB try something similar? That went well for them, right. Can't just blame the payment method but few people though it was a good idea. Either you pay a certain fee every month, every third month or every year, or you pay for box and expansions like in Guildwars. A RMT shop seems to show up in every game anyways, no matter what method they use to pay so I think they should continue as before.
I do worry that O'Brien will become greedy now that Strain is gone, he was the real opponents to extremely high fees, and the fact that GW2 have a huge number of people working to it means they need to get in a lot of more money.
The first GW did fine, it sold almost 7 million boxes to about 4,5 million accounts but I have a feeling this game will need 15 million copies sold to get in the money for making it, if not they will start selling more and more things in that RMT shop. 15 million copies might actually be possible but if they become greedy they will loose in the end, ask Cryptic.
afaik APB didnt die because of their payment method, i heard the game just plain sucked ... but my information can be wrond i dont see any reason why a game would fail so much as APB did just because of this payment method...
Something cheap like 7$ or whatever. Even if they made 1$ a month "profit" per subscriber they would still make a killing without worring about charging for extra content like dungeons and stuff like that.
Then could still make their cash on fluff items and expansions on top of that.
I would prefer this option over possibly paying for periodic content thats NOT an expantion.
They should not :
ArenaNet’s Global Brand Director, Chris Lye, sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
I really like the idea of paying for additional content, its much fairer then subscriptions.... and widely accepted in all game genres accept MMO's
I do not like Chris Lye's spin on it all. They are tiptoeing around the concept of not providing things in your cash shop that provide in-game advantages (xp boosters for example) and then they try to turn it around and imply that they would only charge for things because the FANS want it, and because their #1 goal is what the FANS want... not because they want to find ways to make money post-release.
I would much rather he just be honest and admit that GW2 as an MMO will not be able to sustain itself without heavy micro-transaction business.
I agree that it's annoying when a businessman, who is obviously concerned with maximizing his company's profit, tries to disguise that aspect of business by redirecting thoughts to providing what fans want. I too would prefer them to honestly say, "Hey look, we're a business and we need your money to survive. Now let's look at the pros and cons of various business models for both us, the game developing company (Ie. how large a profit we can turn), and you, the gamers (Ie. how much content you will receive)."
That is essentially what they're doing, explaining the pros of their business model, except that they are focusing only on the pros for us, the gamers, thereby ignoring and downplaying their interest in financial gain. This itself is, of course, a business tactic. Personally, I'm fine with any business model as long as a quality game is produced.
“The thing I would say [about not having a subscription fee] is that we actually have the continued support development model that encourages us to make cooler things than anyone else… If we have to sell you additional content like microtransaction content or anything like that, we have to give you something that you’re going to want to buy. We have to earn your money.”
“We don’t get to say, ‘Oh well, you know, we don’t have to release this content this month, since they’re all going to give us their subscription fee anyways. Let’s just wait until next month and release this cool thing.’ We’re actually kind of bound because if we need income, if we need this game to make some money, we better provide things that people want to buy."
As a fan and a gamer, this is a tremendous philosophy. It means more quality content at a faster rate than subscription fee MMOs. But from a business viewpoint, which is again conveniently downplayed, it sounds awful. They will have to work significantly harder to produce more content at a faster rate just so they can earn as much income as good subscription MMOs earn without making that extra effort. As a business, you would LOVE to be able to be lazy and turn a huge profit. So what gives? Are Anet and NCsoft truly benevolent companies governed solely by their passion for making quality games for the pleasure of their wonderful fans even if it is to their own financial disadvantage? Or is there something about their microtransaction model that they believe will actually allow them to turn a larger profit than a sub model?
Really, it has the potential to be a win-win situation. If Anet can pump out legitimately good content every 2 months or so (good enough that virtually every GW2 player would be interested in it), and charge something like $10 for it, they'd make up nearly 1/3 of a sub-fee right there. Although, again, they'd be working harder than the standard sub-fee MMO company. But combine that with other small bonuses from the in game store, and you could be talking big bucks, especially concerning the seemingly trivial cosmetic content.
I look to Riot's LEAGUE OF LEGENDS, a multiplayer action strategy game which follows a similar business model. It's a completely free-to-play game. Personally, I have yet to pay a dime on it and have been enjoying it for months. However, I believe I am the only one out of my friend group (12 people or so) who has yet to cave in and buy something from Riot's in-game store. At one time or another, and usually on multiple occasions, my friends have purchased new champion skins or new champoins (to get them significanly faster than they could with the in-game point system). Out of curiosity, I decided to calculate how much it would cost to purchase every champion and champion skin from the Riot store. The amount I cacluated back in 8/03/10 was $615.00. And I knew several people who, by that point, had spent over $100 on the "completely free" game. Moreover, LoL keeps earning the big bucks by releasing new champions and skins every 2 weeks. This rapid release of content, and the slow rate of earning in game Influence Points (used as an in game substitute for buying champions) ensures that many players will spend real life money to get the newest stuff. Players are constantly getting something new, and the company keeps generating income. It's a win-win.
The point? Don't underestimate how much people are willing to pay for even the "silly" stuff. Concerning cosmetics, while I think the LoL champion skins are very cool, I'm generally unwilling to pay $5-10 for a visual change to a character that I'd play occasionally in a game like that. Now in an MMO, where I'd devote much more time and be much more personally invested in my character, even I would consider paying to maximize my character's appearance through GW2's high-potential dye and armor set system.
Conclusion? I think Anet is choosing this business model knowing there's a high potential for serious income, and they're completely downplaying that aspect, focusing instead on players' gains within the system. The system could potentially leave both sides satisfied. The company can earn high income to keep producing content, while the players can receive quality content more rapidly. However, I become concerned when the content I wish to purchase begins to cost significantly more money than a sub-fee game would cost...
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
How would they not lose customers if they already stated the game will have no sub and then they came out and said it would require a sub? They would have lost me right there by being liars.
read again...i wrote "they would loose consumers" ... you probably misread something
Insanity.
LOL well I don't know wtf "loosing" customers is. I assumed you made a typo and added an extra O to the word lose.
I think they have the right idea. If you have a problem with it then go pay to play somewhere else.
I'm not sure if everybody that posts on this topic has actually played GW. Anything that you can buy in a micro transaction is for show only. Nothing in the store makes you a better player or gives you any edge in-game. You can enjoy the entire game in its full epic glory without spending one penny post purchase.
Lead Game Designer Eric Flannum, while discussing the upcoming dungeon system in a recent interview with PC Gamer, revealed that Guild Wars 2 may be supported, in part, by microtransaction sales.
In discussing Guild Wars 2’s business model–which continues the stand-alone, subscriptionless model of the original that required players to purchase the game, but not pay a monthly fee afterward–Flannum told us that he believes subscription fees can cause a developer to get lazy, because they’re making money whether they actually support the game or not. He continued, “The thing I would say [about not having a subscription fee] is that we actually have the continued support development model that encourages us to make cooler things than anyone else… If we have to sell you additional content like microtransaction content or anything like that, we have to give you something that you’re going to want to buy. We have to earn your money.”
Eh, I'd rather support them through buying the game, and the expansions, like I did previously for GW1, and Diablo, and Diablo 2, and Half Life, and a variety of other games who choose to do it this way.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
ok, seriously, did you fall when your mum was giving you a birth or something like that? subs in Guild Wars? ROFL. make your own game with subs and take a look how many players will be playing it. I´ll be in GW 2.....
played and deleted or sold accounts: AoC, Lotro, champions, eve, star trek, Aion, city of heroes, etc.
It's more profitable to do the B2P option for GW2 because they have established their previous game in such a model, and also it creates an allure to a lot broader audience. For every one person willing to pay a monthly fee I would say there are 4 who would be willing to buy an MMO if it didn't charge a fee. 1:4 ratio would definitely recoup the costs of 1 player paying a monthly fee. If using the cost of just a bareback GW+expansions (no quest packs or any of that nonsense) it rounds up to about 120, where as an average MMO rounds to about 220, considering that the majority players play MMOs for months-1 year. so 220 for 1 player, or 480 for 4 players. Now this is all predicted and what not, but I would say it's a general example of a possibly accurate situation. It's just more profitable for them to do it this way because from what I've seen A lot of my friends are willing to play GW just cause it has no sub, but when I ask them to play a game that does they immediately say no. I think Arena Net and NCsoft have just wisened up earlier than the rest of the game companies.
Comments
If exp boosts were rendered moot there would be no point in providing them in the first place. Obviously they are of significant benefit because a player has to waste less time leveling. It is the equivalent of buying a powerleveling service to take care of a portion of your leveling.
Let's put it this way, GW1 didn't do so well that anet could have funded GW2 on their own. It was profitable, but without NCsoft funding them they could not make GW2 to the scale that they are.
If they were truly dedicated to providing you as much content as possible without nickel and diming you they probably wouldn't have microtransactions at all. But they understand that people are tolerant of microtransactions and it is a method to make extra money.
Well honestly I only get the feeling when I come to the end of the content of an mmo. Such as in WoW, just as an example, when I got to the ICC raids there wasn't really much for me to do otherwise. I had given up the raid grind a few years ago so that was out of the question. So really I felt like I was just paying $15 a month to log on and chat with my friends. That is where I felt the pressure of playing.
Oh and movies, yeah they are outrageous I agree. Even if you go to a matinee it is still crazy priced.
You don't even need to grind to raid in WoW these days.... it's a matter of learning the game, even if you don't want to spend hours inside ICC cause you don't have the time or the interest or w/e, you can still go in there and hammer out the first wing shortly in a pug.
It's not even about the gear or anything, I was and am just tired of the whole raid scene; been so for a couple of years. BC pretty much killed my interest of raiding. Plus I hate pug raids, I mean really really hate pug raids. I did all of mine in guild. I suppose the overall point is that if you enjoy the game enough to pay the subcription fee than it is worth it for you.
what is wrong with you all for 1 gwars made so much money i rember when itlaunched and they made like 80 million on launch there system is great why would they need to chainge it just buy the damn game jesus save your pennys do away with subscriptions thats a thing of the past
I've not raided in years now. I seriously burned out in MC, and these days I lack the focus and time for raiding. I just run my five 80's up to cap, use Dungeon Finder to run through the heroics and gear them up from drops and tokens. Then I take a vacation until there is something else to do.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guildwars/news.html?sid=6152907&mode=news
It says guild wars and guild wars faction sold 2 million combined over a year later. How did they make 80 million at launch. Care to back that ?
Raiding in MC is a lot different than it is now, the game has become much more casual friendly with 25man or 10man raids, and the content is significantly easier in normal modes.
Regarding subscription in GW2 i disagree, they would loose consumers
Offtopic:
How about this payment, would it be fair
make 1 hour cost 0,5 dollars...ok now stay with me
purchase 60 hours at once ... 0,18 dollar per hour
purchase 120 ... 0,1
purchase 180 ... 0,072
purchase 240 ... 0,058
purchase 300 at once ...0,05
AOL games are a thing of the past my friend.
How would they not lose customers if they already stated the game will have no sub and then they came out and said it would require a sub? They would have lost me right there by being liars.
Steam: Neph
It is a stupid thing to do it will lose them a lot of potential customers.
Didn't APB try something similar? That went well for them, right. Can't just blame the payment method but few people though it was a good idea. Either you pay a certain fee every month, every third month or every year, or you pay for box and expansions like in Guildwars. A RMT shop seems to show up in every game anyways, no matter what method they use to pay so I think they should continue as before.
I do worry that O'Brien will become greedy now that Strain is gone, he was the real opponents to extremely high fees, and the fact that GW2 have a huge number of people working to it means they need to get in a lot of more money.
The first GW did fine, it sold almost 7 million boxes to about 4,5 million accounts but I have a feeling this game will need 15 million copies sold to get in the money for making it, if not they will start selling more and more things in that RMT shop. 15 million copies might actually be possible but if they become greedy they will loose in the end, ask Cryptic.
dont know what aol games are but the fact it is a past doesnt mean it cant be applied nowadays, you havent answered my question and that is would such payment be good fair or bad unfair
read again...i wrote "they would loose consumers" ... you probably misread something
seems to me the only way to make there money back and not piss to many off is follow a free 2 play model . One where u sell the game in box then charge for micro transactions which sounds like gw 2 is gonna do.
Games have to have some way to make income past box sales in today's market. And since the gw people seem to go with the we wont make our game more grindy or force players to have to buy to get places its not a bad idea. U can still offer xp boosts and other things that make the guy who wont play alot in a week.
Add some stuff like outfits and mounts and stuff thats more glitz then game breaking and u have a nice model where they can keep there ideals as a game company and not alienate there community while getting players to pay something so there game is a financial success.
Lets face it blizzard with there spectral horse thigny and there companions have shown u can make a pretty penny offering stuff thats mostly cosmetic in a micro transaction format and make some money without being a pay to win game.
Insanity.
afaik APB didnt die because of their payment method, i heard the game just plain sucked ... but my information can be wrond i dont see any reason why a game would fail so much as APB did just because of this payment method...
I agree that it's annoying when a businessman, who is obviously concerned with maximizing his company's profit, tries to disguise that aspect of business by redirecting thoughts to providing what fans want. I too would prefer them to honestly say, "Hey look, we're a business and we need your money to survive. Now let's look at the pros and cons of various business models for both us, the game developing company (Ie. how large a profit we can turn), and you, the gamers (Ie. how much content you will receive)."
That is essentially what they're doing, explaining the pros of their business model, except that they are focusing only on the pros for us, the gamers, thereby ignoring and downplaying their interest in financial gain. This itself is, of course, a business tactic. Personally, I'm fine with any business model as long as a quality game is produced.
Here's a recent post by PCgamer, detailing some business model clarifications by lead developer Eric Flannum. Arguing against the subscription model, Flannum "believes subscription fees can cause a developer to get lazy, because they’re making money whether they actually support the game or not." In the article he continues,
“The thing I would say [about not having a subscription fee] is that we actually have the continued support development model that encourages us to make cooler things than anyone else… If we have to sell you additional content like microtransaction content or anything like that, we have to give you something that you’re going to want to buy. We have to earn your money.”
“We don’t get to say, ‘Oh well, you know, we don’t have to release this content this month, since they’re all going to give us their subscription fee anyways. Let’s just wait until next month and release this cool thing.’ We’re actually kind of bound because if we need income, if we need this game to make some money, we better provide things that people want to buy."
As a fan and a gamer, this is a tremendous philosophy. It means more quality content at a faster rate than subscription fee MMOs. But from a business viewpoint, which is again conveniently downplayed, it sounds awful. They will have to work significantly harder to produce more content at a faster rate just so they can earn as much income as good subscription MMOs earn without making that extra effort. As a business, you would LOVE to be able to be lazy and turn a huge profit. So what gives? Are Anet and NCsoft truly benevolent companies governed solely by their passion for making quality games for the pleasure of their wonderful fans even if it is to their own financial disadvantage? Or is there something about their microtransaction model that they believe will actually allow them to turn a larger profit than a sub model?
Really, it has the potential to be a win-win situation. If Anet can pump out legitimately good content every 2 months or so (good enough that virtually every GW2 player would be interested in it), and charge something like $10 for it, they'd make up nearly 1/3 of a sub-fee right there. Although, again, they'd be working harder than the standard sub-fee MMO company. But combine that with other small bonuses from the in game store, and you could be talking big bucks, especially concerning the seemingly trivial cosmetic content.
I look to Riot's LEAGUE OF LEGENDS, a multiplayer action strategy game which follows a similar business model. It's a completely free-to-play game. Personally, I have yet to pay a dime on it and have been enjoying it for months. However, I believe I am the only one out of my friend group (12 people or so) who has yet to cave in and buy something from Riot's in-game store. At one time or another, and usually on multiple occasions, my friends have purchased new champion skins or new champoins (to get them significanly faster than they could with the in-game point system). Out of curiosity, I decided to calculate how much it would cost to purchase every champion and champion skin from the Riot store. The amount I cacluated back in 8/03/10 was $615.00. And I knew several people who, by that point, had spent over $100 on the "completely free" game. Moreover, LoL keeps earning the big bucks by releasing new champions and skins every 2 weeks. This rapid release of content, and the slow rate of earning in game Influence Points (used as an in game substitute for buying champions) ensures that many players will spend real life money to get the newest stuff. Players are constantly getting something new, and the company keeps generating income. It's a win-win.
The point? Don't underestimate how much people are willing to pay for even the "silly" stuff. Concerning cosmetics, while I think the LoL champion skins are very cool, I'm generally unwilling to pay $5-10 for a visual change to a character that I'd play occasionally in a game like that. Now in an MMO, where I'd devote much more time and be much more personally invested in my character, even I would consider paying to maximize my character's appearance through GW2's high-potential dye and armor set system.
Conclusion? I think Anet is choosing this business model knowing there's a high potential for serious income, and they're completely downplaying that aspect, focusing instead on players' gains within the system. The system could potentially leave both sides satisfied. The company can earn high income to keep producing content, while the players can receive quality content more rapidly. However, I become concerned when the content I wish to purchase begins to cost significantly more money than a sub-fee game would cost...
If they go box with DLCs like many MANY other titles I will still be one of the first to buy the GW2 Collector's Ed lol
I mean c'mon it's Guild Wars 2
LOL well I don't know wtf "loosing" customers is. I assumed you made a typo and added an extra O to the word lose.
Steam: Neph
I think they have the right idea. If you have a problem with it then go pay to play somewhere else.
I'm not sure if everybody that posts on this topic has actually played GW. Anything that you can buy in a micro transaction is for show only. Nothing in the store makes you a better player or gives you any edge in-game. You can enjoy the entire game in its full epic glory without spending one penny post purchase.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/21/guild-wars-2-to-have-dlc-microtransactions/
Lead Game Designer Eric Flannum, while discussing the upcoming dungeon system in a recent interview with PC Gamer, revealed that Guild Wars 2 may be supported, in part, by microtransaction sales.
In discussing Guild Wars 2’s business model–which continues the stand-alone, subscriptionless model of the original that required players to purchase the game, but not pay a monthly fee afterward–Flannum told us that he believes subscription fees can cause a developer to get lazy, because they’re making money whether they actually support the game or not. He continued, “The thing I would say [about not having a subscription fee] is that we actually have the continued support development model that encourages us to make cooler things than anyone else… If we have to sell you additional content like microtransaction content or anything like that, we have to give you something that you’re going to want to buy. We have to earn your money.”
Eh, I'd rather support them through buying the game, and the expansions, like I did previously for GW1, and Diablo, and Diablo 2, and Half Life, and a variety of other games who choose to do it this way.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
ok, seriously, did you fall when your mum was giving you a birth or something like that? subs in Guild Wars? ROFL. make your own game with subs and take a look how many players will be playing it. I´ll be in GW 2.....
played and deleted or sold accounts: AoC, Lotro, champions, eve, star trek, Aion, city of heroes, etc.
still playing: Guild Wars 1
It's more profitable to do the B2P option for GW2 because they have established their previous game in such a model, and also it creates an allure to a lot broader audience. For every one person willing to pay a monthly fee I would say there are 4 who would be willing to buy an MMO if it didn't charge a fee. 1:4 ratio would definitely recoup the costs of 1 player paying a monthly fee. If using the cost of just a bareback GW+expansions (no quest packs or any of that nonsense) it rounds up to about 120, where as an average MMO rounds to about 220, considering that the majority players play MMOs for months-1 year. so 220 for 1 player, or 480 for 4 players. Now this is all predicted and what not, but I would say it's a general example of a possibly accurate situation. It's just more profitable for them to do it this way because from what I've seen A lot of my friends are willing to play GW just cause it has no sub, but when I ask them to play a game that does they immediately say no. I think Arena Net and NCsoft have just wisened up earlier than the rest of the game companies.