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Star Wars Galaxies: Our Combat Upgrade Q&A
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In recent weeks our mailbox has been filled with players angry over the recent "combat upgrade" patch that went live in SWG. The update featured rolled-back servers, tougher times for crafters, and soloing woes for players. We compiled some of the more constructive questions and asked SWG Producer Julio Torres some questions about the update. A preview is below:
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You can read the full Q&A at this link.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Comments
This is some "decent" feedback from SOE, but too bad we are not seeing more of it on the actual SWG forums. Although, I do have to give Julio credit for the good "spin control" he managed with answering all the questions, including the last one with "what went wrong" even though it was very obvious he wasn't about to admit the barely "beta" stage, "combat upgrade", early release.
Unfortunately, I have been waiting and paying for "rebalancing", bug fixes, and consistent screwups by the SWG developing team, that I have made this the last "nail" in the coffin and I am going to lay this game to rest. Hopefully, (wishing) someday, someone else besides SOE develops a SWG2, perferably with Raph Koster heading the project up (again) and staying with it after release (to prevent unimagining corporate kiss@ss developers from screwing up his brain child - again).
Cheers
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
The "accomplished players" have tried it.... thoroughly... the vote is nearly unanimous; we hate it. The "new way of playing Star Wars Galaxies" is orders of magnitude less fun then playing SWG with the same old content. Ask people that have played both extensively. We are not opposed to change, but this just sucks. 40+ hours in the new combat upgrade system and I purchased my first copy of WoW. It sucks as well, but at least I don't know how great it could have been.
I believe that accomplished players would pay DOUBLE to continue playing with the old combat system given a choice. I believe that they would choose the old combat system over any imaginable upgrade or new content. Every player I know agrees.
SOE and Lucas should consider legacy "version 1.0" servers... or get used to the idea of loosing the experienced players permanently.
Well, first off I agree this is nothing more than a tarnished company trying to salvage something from pushing this through.
To say they changed crafting is an understatement, they wrecked Doctor, Chef and Entertainer to just name the professions I had that where crafters.
Jedi is useless and not even grind-able.
L.A. should have may be started listening to thier clients before Comic Update and fixed all the bugs the game already had. Instead of injecting more into the game.
This game is plagued by incompetance, bugs abound. Professions gimped to the point that I'm sorry I find it laughable that they say you can ever solo anything that gives you more than 1 xp.
People are leaving in droves, my guild has disappeared and NPC towns might as well have boards on the windows because they are empty now.
The fallout will be the end for this game. To bad, was a awesome game.
Beta is for TESTING and BUGS, not live and paying clients.
Lexlor
Wow, spin control is right. Just a quick look at the daily focus thread on the SWG forums and its easy to see how many things are legitimately broken in this game right now. This begs the question 'Why not do more testing before rolling out these sweeping changes to the live servers?'
What happened to the test, feedback, change, test process that would have insured community involvement. Certainly not everyone could be pleased with all changes, but SOME input from the community would have helped with the 'buy in' that SOE and Lucas Arts are so clearly not getting now.
While there is an element of truth in having to get used to any big change, I dont think anyone has said that the new fantasy game icons or particle effects are a move towards a more immersive, 'starwarsy' experience (one of the stated goals of the CU)
Its still the best way to be a part of the Star Wars universe with other gamers though. So here's to hoping they get it all straightened out. Soon.
Overall, this response saddens me. It shows just how far down the chain of command this revised CU went (note the revised part - trust me - the original CU wasn't this one). It also shows that hell or high water - they intend to keep this new system. Julio all but said they were willing to take the losses especially from the vets camp. In all, there are many who hate this change and just enough who like it to keep the game running. Frankly, I am tired of fighting to save SWG. I'm a vet, tried voicing my opinion in the betas, tried voicing my opinion in the forums, tried showing my opinion in every poll/petition that ever came down the pipe and I am now tired of wasting my time on closed minds with access to my bank account.
Like many CU fans say - if you don't like it - quit. I'd like to revise this a bit - if you don't like playing a half beta tested EQ2 clone - then go spend your money elsewhere. I am doing just that. I am here at your fine site reading up on what is and what is to be. One of the games listed will get my money and time and I assure you it will not be Star Wars Galaxies.
And for those who remain, I respect your undying faith and hope that you turn out the lights when you leave.
I think one of the major problems with the selling of the CU is that it's not just a major change to the combat system per se, but rather a fundamental change to the whole game - essentially a SWG2 by stealth. None of it was asked for, but we got it lumbered on us nonetheless and get told to "suck it and be happy with it".
One of the major issues regarding the CU was the way in which the changes have been implemented (some may say foistered onto the player community). We had been promised a combat upgrade for many, many moons, and this in itself was welcomed and indeed had been looked forward to be a large section of the player base. What was not expected was the wholesale changes that have inadvertently changed the playing styles of the community.
I guess when they LA first looked at these changes, they should of been aware that even though they were addressing only one aspect of the game (combat), they had the potential to effectively ruin other apsects of the game at the same time. And it's this which has essentially driven many players (myself included) away from this game. And at the end of the day, it's this which LA and SOE have consistently refused to acknowledge as being any sort of issue - except in passing or as an aside.
Maybe its time for LA and SOE to realise that this game is not purely or soley about combat - its about playing a character in an immersive online environment. But what these changes have done is remove the immersion and "universality' of players characters from the universe and replaced it with the mantra "combat is everything". This can been seen rather eloquently in the comment by Julio when referring to crafting strictly along the "Armoursmith and Weaponsmith" lines.
I'm sorry but what about all of the other crafting professions? What about Architects who have had nothing done for them since launch almost 2 years ago?. What about Docs who are now relegated to being a combat class with no crafting skills whatsoever. What about DEs who even after a revamp, are still only able to produce useless and essentially unwanted droids? Or artisans whose mainstay of powerups have essentially been reduced to being worthless? The list goes on and on. BE's who now have insane resources requirements, Shipwrights finding themselves being reduced to producing ammo and RE'ing loot, etc, etc, etc.
And all the while because of the new leveling system and the inability to use armour and weapons and being restricted to using PSGs (which only protect against forms of attack most creatures don't use), now find themselves taking 4 to 5 trips to the cloner each session. The solution to LA/SOE was to hire bodyguards - but try grabbing a guildie or some other party to follow you around for a couple of hours whilst you survey, stand at a factory loading schems and resources, check a dozen or so harvestors, etc. It's not easy and often can't be done. Spawn rates and server side lag often means that what was a nice clear location suddenly sprouts an aggro spawn that is instant death to a Lvl 1 combat skilled crafter. A lack of combat notification means that the crafter has the cloning screen appear before they realise what is happening!
A proper beta testing period and listening to the input from the community would of negated, or at least dealt all of these issues. But in their rush to introduce these changes before EP3 and the expension tie-in RoTW are released, they decided it was better to burn their entire non-combat player base.
Well this player has been burnt and it highly doubtful I will be back to SWG. TO me, the changes turned what was an enjoyable and immersive game into an endless repetition of dieing for no particular reason and for certainly no reward. I played this game for the crafting and community aspect. Crafting for me has been ruined by these changes, and with the departure of nearly every player who I gamed with, so to me has the community been ruined.
I made my decision and reluctantly walked away from a game that has consumed 2 years of my life. I leave disgruntled, upset and very, very angry. And no amount of marketing guff and LA/SOE staff hiding from the truth is going to change that.
And in all seriousness, I cannot see myself returned ever.
Well, pretty fluffly answers.. and really the questions weren't answered. Instead, there was a lot of talking points that have been repeated throughout the process of the CU. But, I was an original beta tester while I was playing the short lived Earth and Beyond.. and I know there were a lot of SWG players complaining about the current combat system, and wanted a huge overhaul. Well, for the most part, they got it, and got it hard. I didn't ask for change, but it's here, and now I have to deal with it. I have a Dark Jedi and a MBH. The bounty hunter does fine, but the Jedi.. has a lot to be desired... but I'm sure I will find a way to make it work as I usually do. I am not about to throw all my hard work away.
Thank you MMORPG for the attempt to get some straight answers.
What a load, combat is so broken now that people get one shot killed just for looking wrong at a mob. creatures as much as 50 levels below a level 80 character can take 5 ro 10 min to kill for now xp. Jedi's force is almost completely used up in one combat encounter. For those of us who have the character template we like Double or even 4x xp is a useless " bonus ". I as a crafter have to relearn what all my chef foods. Stimpak making as well as all meds have had their schmatics redone for the worse using as much as 10x as many resources as before. Bio-Engineering pet making is way broken. my Master Creature handler can't pull any of his BE Pets because the game will adjust them and even though the stats are comperable to Natural pets of the same level the game would turn them into level 150 plus creatures. the game has lost a great deal of it's crafters, especially the Armorsmiths whose resources have also been completely changed.
My experience with the CU has been less than thrilling to say the least. I have played the game for over 14 months have 2 accounts and my girlfriend also plays (has for over a year now) and has 2 accounts. We have played both the crafting and combat professions and both made jedi before the CU. Now we are beside ourselves on wether to cancel all the accounts or not.
Issues i see atm :
Creatures regenerate much faster than jedi can damage them, jedi xp solo is limited to 635-721 per kill of a creature 2 or 1 level below you respectively. If you get hunted by a Bounty Hunter player and die you can lose 50,000-400,000xp a death and have up to 5 BH's tracking u at the same time. Getting skills Novice boxes are 20k xp, tier 1 are 200k xp, tier 2 400k xp, tier 3 800k xp, tier 4 1.2mil xp, and master 3.6mil xp. Grouping gives me viz which puts me on BH terminals which gets me hunted. So the game has made it no fun for me to endlessly grind with little gain and too much to loose.
Crafting profession are limited travel wise especially in the wild areas outside cities... To gather resources i must survey (comabt level 1) near and place harvesters by creatures that could be up to combat level 81 basically i have a 1.2% chance to have a fair fight IF the MOB's dont agro me and make it 2, 3 or even 5 on one. This does not even consider the fact that once i place harvester i have to go back for the resources and to maintain it ....
All in all very poor 'upgrade' IMHO
I quit the day this CU came out as im tired of the socalled upgrades to the game itself.But id like to point out somethings that are indicative of SOE treating SWG as a "live" experiment.
1.When launch date was announced the beta testers screamed for at least another year of development.Ive even read on this site that most testers didnt even touch the game for another year.
2.6 months in and no jedi.There were no jedi and eventually it was admitted that they werent in the game at launch.When they did put it in it was revamped 3 times.
3.The infamous credit duplicating fiasco.Instead of banning the dupers they banned the people receiving the credits.
These are just 3 of the experiments they were running.The act of deleting postings on the forums over at SWG is so much like the devs over at "mourning" the devs at that game should sue the devs at SWG for stolen ideas.
SOE could care less about the timeline the continuity or even the players themselves so ill talk with my money and go elsewhere.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Solo...solo...is Julio for real?
I made Master Pistoleer two days before the CU went in. I was also grinding the FS tree. I have tried my original set which was MP/MS and respecced to MP/MCH (to get myself a group). This means I am a CL70. If anything more than one critter attacks me at my level, I am toast. I can't take missions anymore as they spawn more than one. I solo successfully CL17 - CL20 critters. Wow, and they give me 2 xp each (2 because of the double experience week).
Julio also needs to remember that not all Americans play in groups or have equal opportunities to do so or are combat oriented (this game used to pride itself on the ability to "customize" your character - one of the reasons that I came here from DAOC).
Plain crafters - they are NOT offered any armor protection, and they need to go to wild planets like Dantooine to buy supplies and sell at merchants. This is where they get one-shotted. They have been told to hire bodyguards or get your guild to protect you. Like anyone in their right mind wants to follow a crafter around while they shop? Trust me, I know crafters and it take HOURS to get all they need for runs.
I have been a longtime player as I started when Dragon's Gate was AUSI's main product. I am not a power leveller or player (I like to get a place where I can enjoy quests, adventuring and other game content). I maxxed two characters in DAOC but yet I never got so frustrated as I have at this game. I will give DAOC one thing that the new CU lacks - in Trials of Atlantis, I still had areas where I could solo successfully. This gave does not have static spawns which makes it impossible to solo at my level. I rolled up a new character and they have static spawns galore now. Bestine looks like an invasion on some days. That is not an option for players like me. There is no set creatures and other than Endor, the random spawns tend to be low-levelled. I cannot spawn any mission that is say 10-20 levels lower than me.
I have been thinking of trying this Eve game. Sad really, as I live in a room filled with Star Wars memobilia. I have been a fan of the movies since A New Hope (then called Star Wars) first came out as a teen. It was a movie that my father and I went to see together and it was a good memory. I am the kind of person that SOE wanted to keep. If they lose the hard-core fans, then they just become another science fiction MMORP. SOE needs to remember that there are other games out there and they have wiped out a large percentage of their old population base. Maybe the new movie will bring in new blood but without the old players, who will make the food, buffs and pets and who will help these new players along? I have helped countless new players in the last few days.
This interview may go one the proverbial grave of SWG, that and the comment of "It was a good game, great graphics but they din't listen to the players. They put in a new game where only tweaks were needed."
To all those who leave that I have been friends with, I hope to see you again along the way. It's been a fun go round.
Binar i remember from the cu=Downgrade bords dont know if u remember my dowgrade sig. But credit must be given to Julio, he was right that we could usually solo anything a 1/3 our level without getting DB'd, lol.
I was going to keep the ordered Expansions just in case (Now foresure we know its LA and SOE) changed their minds but the account where i was about TKM and Commando with Novice scout and lost all skills to Rescec which doesnt work right i just cancelled that saveing $25.00.
But its true this is just like Revenge of the Sith, wont give anything away but obviously they put that rage of the wookies there and i felt something was wrong when that came up for some reason. Now they took power away from the Coucil and the senate which is Us, the Majority of the ppl that was playing the game and the Sith just killed us all.
Damm.
Kingshark,
of course they want you to resepc over and over, each time you do you u lose elete boxes,
they figure they will "yank " the 12 day resepc then you will be "stuck grinding the rest"
Seems to me like the respec was figured in as a way to see how long accounts might be kept......
Oh and those folks that half to group now, just where are they finding the folks to group with????
Cnet on my server was empty prime time so was mining....................
I have played SWG since Beta and yes Combat needed a revamp but SOE did it to themselves. But this revamp is the wrong direction. This just does not have star wars realism it has WoW or EQ2 all over it. I tried it on beta I tried it on live and I HATE it. I have since cancelled my account and sent an e-mail to lucasarts and signed the online petition. This has ruined SWG from the combat to the cartoonish icons that look like a complete WoW icon ripoff. This feels like I am playing EQ2 and WoW in the SWG Universe. As to increasing the pace of combat it now takes about 2x-10x longer to kill stuff then it did I even tried new chars. This also FORCES a playstyle as 95% of ALL Content is Unsoloable they went from 99% Solable to 95% unSoloable. This is the WORSE thing that could ever be done it ruins the Star Wars Universe.
I had high hopes for Combat Upgrade but they changed the game from a Skill based Virtual World to a NEW buggy Level based Quest Game without the quests.
I always wonder why folks enforce such changes on everyone without leaving any choice to the customers. I am sure there is enought customers on both side of the river to make server with upgrades, and some without...no?
Or am I disillusionnal to believe having differents servers with old rule would be to much to ask?
Again, SoE paved the way by enforcing every expension on every player, never offering any server immune to the new expension should the players rather stick to the ''old''.
*shrug*
As to make solo harder and more unappealing in Star War, I am happy I have never play SWG, I would be outraged, since me, when I watch the movies or play Star War, solo was always paramount! Luke solo Darth Vader, it was easier to solo Darth Maul then to gang up on him...and so on...so making solo harder and peoples in need to group have a SoE feeling, not a Star War feeling. Except for Jar Jar Binx or C3P0, I think every character solo a LOT and extremely well. I dont say there should be no group situation, indeed there are group situations in Star Wars, but they dont impact on the solo aspect, not at all. They are to face huge amount of enemies...I dont think Bantha fighting would be easier to a group then to a solo jedi, in facts, a group would prolly hinder the Jedi. Star Wars is about HEROIC deeds, there is nothing heroic in been LFG and unable to do something great. I would find it pretty funny to see Obiwan LFG and waiting for a group and not attacking Darth Vader...lol he send the group away, he fight better alone and solo...the group was a flaw to him, as he cannot concentrate on protecting them and need to focus on Darth Vader...
Lucas need to kick some SoE butts!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
He neatly side-stepped 90 % of the questions and answered most of the rest with rhetorics and mantra-like "Players resist change, but we know better than them whats good for them".
I (often being accused of being the SWG fanboi on this board) have not seen any mea culpa from SWG for
a) having pushed CU live MUCH too early and with insufficient testing and balancing - a common problem seen with SOE and SWG for the last 2 years
b) having introduced a factor based on level difference between mobs and players that causes a LOT of problems and makes skill and quality equipment irrelevant and "staying within your level range" everything
c) stealth changes to the way resources are handled and then failing to correct the crafting screen - which means at the moment crafters get plain wrong information about the quality of the product they craft
d) heavy handed forum policing that spills over into the game (forum and game bans, hundreds of deleted threads)
e) bowing to marketing department pressure and almost always delivering buggy patches and expansion too early (even if later they correct the bugs - live servers are no beta test ground !!)
Have fun
Erillion
Here is the paradox. A toon has a combat level in the 50s. You are trained in pistols but want to now train in rifle. The weapon you are certified for is not lethal enough to solo a critter that earns combat skil exp. Or watch 10 level 32 npc gang attack and kill a combat level 80 player, and for the mobs the players kill, they get 1 skil point a piece. I do not have the option of getting together with 8 other skill opposing dudes for a nite on the town so I can have my way with the mobs and get skill leveling points. With the combat upgrade fix you are busy watching the circle so you know when to shoot again. You cant type to other players because your too busy dying. Try spending your play day in the cloning clinic. Arcade style not, tedious and boring style, yes. I have to look at some macro and hit the fire button every few seconds. Try that for an hour and you will be wearing a white lace up the back jacket. And not to mention all my armor is no good. I seen some on the vendor yesterday for 30 million. Same with the guns. The new game has a much higher leveling requirement for a skill that has a lot less killing power. I know why they did it, they want you to keep grinding, yes play without content lines there purses. That may work for some but not for the face pace game style we expect nowadays. SWG is not everquest and is not epic driven. We are there to shoot and loot. I was playing test center yesterday. You can have any skill, any armor any weapon you like. You can have any buff any amount of money or resource you desire. After 60 minutes of play in which 45 is cleaning out the Christmas tree you go fire on some npc. Then you fill out a survey and they base there game play success on your answer. Results would be far different if one had to earn the skil points.
I have a follow-up question...
Julio, you stated multiple times that the development team was moving in directions to make the game more enjoyable, and more immersive.
My question is, were you designing the new system for you, or for us??
The reason I ask.... If it's for you, then we have no reason to complain. We will just move on. But if it's for us, then since it's not what we want/need, perhaps you should change it back.
"Have you ever been punched in the face for talking too much?" - XXX
Well,seeing this kind of "answers" i dont regret that i have cancelled my accounts.Totally negotiate the massive problems.
...and i am a bit unsure if i should say this,but in my oppinion they abuse the "naiv",dedicated swg fans for testing and fixing a totally bugged product for a next and new generation of players (if they ever get a new generation after this fiasco..)
The points of most fans of this CU are that kind : i love it,its great,the problems .....i am sure they will fix it sometimes
The " it is a Star Wars Game" is the only plus-point left for this game.
Its sad...
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"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." -- Batman