Fadeus, both u and Erillion with a couple others on the SWG general Forums say the CU was a good step and just has some bugs, lol, and support it with a few other idiots. what i dont like is all of us are not their to Defend them while u maggots attack them, so stop lieing.
My apologies, I saw the EQ2 pic and made a foolish assumption. You are absolutely correct. In fact, if you go back to I think the first page or two and look at my first post you will see that I posted a rather lengthy post with good descriptions of the reasons I feel that the CU is not right for this game. Indeed, the mindless and angry rants only serve to hurt the cause. New to this, so maybe you can just search my posts. It's a good read.
Edited because I see you actually replied to it after I posted it, lol. So I guess you already know it's a reasonable thought out read. Originally posted by Fadeus
Originally posted by RaistlinVII This is not intended to flame you, but I just have to say that I find it ammusing that one of the few CU supporters has an EQ2 pic in his sig. No wonder you like it.
I have already stated I beleive it was a mistake and I do not like them expanding the level system as they did so I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion. Considering how many negative things I have had to say about the CU I am not even sure where you get I am a supporter of it.
HOWEVER I will not sit here and mindlessly flame it without laying down any real facts on why I don't like it. I am not just gonna sit here and rant all day "SOE SUX!!111" and "the CU DOWNGRADE IS HORRIBLE". I have argued some peoples posts that honestly I found completely untrue. You can like the CU or you can dislike it, but don't sit there ranting like a mindless drone and expect me to respect your opinion.
If we can't keep it civil. The thread will be locked.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I"m a new guy here so my opinion prolly doesn't mean to much, but will spit it out anyways.
I really don't see Fadeus flaming anyone here. If anything, he seems to have the most reasoned posts in these threads. He's shown his obvious disdain of many of the changes to the Combat Upgrade.
Yet at the same time he says SWG needed change. And I don't think anyone with sanity would admit that SWG was perfect. It was in need of change.... BADLY. Yet what was originally a great product was suddenly gutted by some horrid ideas (damage multipliers, CL's, crafter alienation, etc.) and horrid customer relations (Tiggs arrogance that only 50 people opposed the CU, etc.) If you read the reasoned responses, most people will say a lot of the CU is good, it's just that there's probably only 5 real beefs, and those 5 beefs make or break the system.
So let's have a bit of sanity when discussing these issues. Just my opinion.
I do have one question for all of you burned SWGers. If SOE did role back the CU would you stay with the game? Would you put your trust - and money, and time - in a company that would do something like this in the first place? To awnser my own question, I'd think twice before ever purchasing an SOE product. But I'm wondering what you guys think about it.
i sincerely hope that the posted interview was a 'shortened' version....
Jedi characters(the supposedly 'elite' players) were not mentioned at all. The Cu has made grinding jedi skill boxes all but impossible.... Pre-CU, I could average 150k xp per hour... now I have great difficulty averaging 20k xp per hour.
My defenses = decreased, my damage output = decreased, my ability to earn xp = decreased, variety and availability of creatures that reward xp = decreased, ability to fightb multiple opponents simultaneously = practically gone, xp requirements for jedi profession skills = unchanged.
Regular ground professions can earn 3k-5k xp per creature, and 4th tier skill boxes are 450k(avg) xp to earn.... Jedi's earn less than 1k per creature, and 4th tier skill boxes are 1.6 million xp. Where's the balance in that? Also, jedi is the only profession that actually lose xp(and can have a negative xp total) for dying. No other profession suffers such severe penalties.
As for the 'grouping' thing.... ok... your young jedi groups with his/her buddies/guildmates and heads out for some combat fun... so... you earn 60k xp in a short time... then, because of the visibility you collected from your group, the Bounty Hunters come along, kill you, and you lose 200k xp. While the BH's are attacking you(up to 5 of them at once)... your friends are powerless to assist you... all they can do is watch you die in a loud, grotesque manner. So... you actually lost 140k xp for doing what SOE believes it right?... That isn't balance... it's just stupid.
No I wouldn't come back. They demonstrated absolute contempt for their player base, and their attempted snowjobs/forum policing and such a rushed project have burned a lot of my confidence in them. I'm being asked to head over to EQ2 by my guild (we have chapters setup in about every online game there is, so we as noobs comin in can have a home) and from what I hear, SOE does treat that base a lot better. We'll see how it goes. but I stand with a lot of Eclipse players (especially crafters) in saying we are done and you won't see us back.
If soe only know how they mess up swg real bad to the point of no return and if soe know how hard it is to grind jedi on the SOOO called the COMBAT UPGRADE and its mission impossible to to get jedi xp if we grind solo and if we are in a group then it bets off being prey for the bounty hunters too since our friends cant help the jedi fight off the bounty hunters but can let the bounty hunters have like 4 or more friends to kill one jedi while the jedi friend HAVE to watch him get jump by bounty hunters and thats crap. I bet if the soe put back the old combat system back on live they will get some many players back that swg will be a whole new game again but other wise swg is going to have alot of players leaving them every day.
Originally posted by tmr255 SOE Forum poll that was up when CU was on the test servers. On a scale of 1-5, with 5 being Exceptionally fun and 1 being Not fun, rate how much fun you had playing Combat Upgrade during your last play session.748 Vote(s) 1 - Not fun at all (75%)86 Vote(s) 5 - Exceptionally Fun (9%)59 Vote(s) 2 (6%)52 Vote(s) 3 (5%)51 Vote(s) 4 (5%)Total Votes: 996 April 23rd 03:00 PST - April 24th 06:00 PST3 days before the CU went live on April 27th.The numbers speak for them selfs. R.I.P SWG April 27th 2005
Quit trying to use forum polls as evidence of anything. They are useless, someone that has cookies disabled could have sit there and easily wracked up 500 votes, the only polls that count for anything was the in game testing poll. Man I am so tired of people trying to use that crappy forum poll as some kind of evidence of the player bases feelings. And ontop of it only 1000 votes, and more then likely they were all from the most voicey and spiteful that run to the official forum to get another flame in.
I am not on that vote and I surely wouldnt have voted with the majority on it. You would think when someone sees almost everyone just voted the lowest rating on it they would use alittle common sense and figure that its skewed. Ya the CU has caused alot of pains and there are alot of parts I don't like about it, but give the friggin poll up, its not helping anything other then to make you look that gullable.
I was a member of the CU Alpha Team, reflecting the same numbers in our private forum as the public forums. The team was a "representation of the best players in SWG", according to the devs. I believe the "would you recommend this game to someone else" poll came in at 86% negative.
I wont go into great detail about my feelings concerning the recent changes. Everyone plays this game for their own reasons. When the CU hit I became immediately frustrated. For seven months, I couldnt tell you how many changes and fixes this game has had ..too numerous to count. If when introduced to the game, had there been a disclaimer on the box that said something to the effect of this game is continually changing, a work in progress or dont get your heart set on it, tomorrow will be different. I think I would have been a bit more hesitant in purchasing it. What products do you buy that you have no guarantees about. It wasnt what it says it was, or as it was advertised, or constantly needed to be fixed or adjusted. Would you take it back or continue using it? With the new CU, so much has changed. Its not the same game and in no way balanced, full of bugs and in need of serious "fixes". This change was forced on me ..a decision I wasnt asked about, had no say so in. Paying for it is. I cant justify spending my money each month on a game I bought, spent countless hours and effort on, to be handed a new game and say, ok relearn it, start over and love it .its better. Especially since what I had done and worked so hard to become good at, no longer was any good or at all competitive. I didnt buy the game to beta test it. Ive done that before in a thing called a job and I got paid for it, not the other way around. I didnt intend on doing it again and calling it my fun. It was a business decision done for us to work their bugs out so as to have a better product for them to market with the current movie release. And what do we get for our frustrations and efforts? The silent treatment in response and a double xp week with the server being down a good majority of the time!?! It changed everything I loved about the game and made it useless, pointless or incredibly more difficult. I for one will be very careful not to give SOE or Lucas Arts anymore of my money. They lost more than a player here. They lost a customer for any related products and one dedicated in letting others know how frustrated I am. I've been in the customer service industry for the majority of my life and SOE and Lucas Arts is utterly astounding!
Fivo ... old lot minder of mine :-) Long time no read.
Yes, they blew it by going too early and not doing it as planned ... like listening to the Alpha Team (in an Alpha test that never happened and it shows). But IMHO I think they can fix it while we are busy exploring Kashyyyk and its quests. Which are better done than any content they provided so far in SWG.
Others dont want to wait or have grown tired of bug Fixing. I respect that and hope they find a game they like and some of them I will miss (you being one of them).
Originally posted by Erillion Fivo ... old lot minder of mine :-) Long time no read. Yes, they blew it by going too early and not doing it as planned ... like listening to the Alpha Team (in an Alpha test that never happened and it shows). But IMHO I think they can fix it while we are busy exploring Kashyyyk and its quests. Which are better done than any content they provided so far in SWG. Others dont want to wait or have grown tired of bug Fixing. I respect that and hope they find a game they like and some of them I will miss (you being one of them). Have fun Erillion (aka Novarider from Naritus)
BTW, slots still yours even though you let them blow up.
Originally posted by RaistlinVII My apologies, I saw the EQ2 pic and made a foolish assumption. You are absolutely correct. In fact, if you go back to I think the first page or two and look at my first post you will see that I posted a rather lengthy post with good descriptions of the reasons I feel that the CU is not right for this game. Indeed, the mindless and angry rants only serve to hurt the cause. New to this, so maybe you can just search my posts. It's a good read. Edited because I see you actually replied to it after I posted it, lol. So I guess you already know it's a reasonable thought out read.
No need to apologise, and yes I remember your post and liked it. I just don't wish to sit here and bash.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
One of the things I've noticed from playing EQ2 and SWG is that SOE don't listen to the people that use their product but rather do what they think is in the customer's best interest. You guys need to stop playing God and come to the realization that it is the consumers that put meals on your table and not SOE.
I have been playing SWG for a very long time, what really disappoints me is the same old bugs (and yes I have submitted trouble tickets) in the game environment still exist while you fixed the combat (which was not broke).
I'm Tired of paying for crapy service. If SOE was on the Aprentice Donald Trump would fire SOE for making a product that did not meet the expectations of its customer base.
I think that if you or I were in SOE's shoes we would have thought twice about releasing this so called upgrade. I feel that with all the money that SOE generates in annual income they should deliver a quality product.
Our insatiable apatite for MMORPG, has most of us in a position where SOE can develope low quality products without recourse.
Realizing that this subject has been talked to death over the past week I would like to say that for allot of Veterans of the game including myself I feel hurt they have to cancel their accounts to send a message to SOE; we are not going to pay for crap!
I like most of the cu but the thing that does suck and needs to change is the way xp is earned the old way xp was earned was better than this new system. the fact is some players are still grinding jedi and how can they suceed when it has become twice as hard, and the simply fact that also if a lower end player groups with a higher lvl player it will decrease or give them no xp. How does this support grouping with other players? the simple fact is it doesn't. The overall quality of the cu is ok, but the loss of players isn't due to the cu as much as it is the loss of xp and soloing which made swg stand out from other mmorpg games. now the game has lost the feeling that the vets (which I am) fell in love with. They really need to work with this promblem to balance out the players who are attempting to go jedi and for the lower lvl player who need to group to help them gain the xp they need instead of punishing them for the effort they created.
Me and my wife have been playing this game for almost 2 years. I love the whole Star Wars story, and fel in love with this game. But like in real life, love sometimes dies when things change for the worse. I am a Jedi and worked my butt off to get it. I was in full support of a combat upgrade or the balancing of professions. I thought that it was going to be that a elite profession had a decent chance to stand against another elite profession. Of course with some hadicaps being given with Melee vs Ranged in a duel. Jedi's of course being the best of any, as it says in their describing of the profession. JEDI - a trained jedi is able to take on MULTIPLE oppents in combat- anyone that is a jedi or knows a jedi, knows that now this just isn't the truth. I never hunted in groups before the CU, unless it was with my guild or friends and we were doing a High end quest, aka The Vette, Geo cave, NS Stronghold or something along those lines. Don't get me wrong Krayts, NS elders, and some of the High end MOBS should have never been able to be solo'd. That is what I thought was going to be the changes in the CU along with the PvP aspect of it.
The Q&A of the less than informed person, who apearently doesn't play SWG, or is on some serious medication when he does play it, has no clue about what was fun and exciting about the game. I went from being a devoted SWG fan and getting several of my RL friends that love Star Wars as much I do, to start playing the game. To telling them not to bother, the game is ruined and is no longer fun to play. I do like parts of the CU, but crafters, entertainers, and doctors have been for the most part cast aside and left for dead on the SWG road way. It is a sad state of affairs. my accounts run out in july, I really hope that someone that can make the change will reach down between their legs, grab their ears and pull their heads out of their butts. This is the only RPG game that I want to play, hopefully in a couple of months it will still be, but I've learned not to expect much if anything from SOE or Lucas Arts when it comes to fixing what needs to be fixed.
Oh and as far as the 50 Vets posting on the SWG forums. Most of us can't for being banned, me being one of them for my opinions, none of which were vulgar or said in bad taste, on the CU. SOE wants to paint a pretty picture for themsleves, just so they can keep beleiving that they have made an improvement. But as anyone can see here, or on any other forums, that it is far from being what was needed.
IGN has an inteview up with the same clown and a couple others. The whole interview is pretty much the same damage-control spinmeister bunk he curled here. This gem from the last page just takes the cake though. No more of my money for SOE.
"IGNPC: Let's talk about the practical implementation of the upgrade. Why did you guys decide to go live with it when you did?
Dallas Dickinson: We've been testing it for a full month, both internally and on the test center. We were simply not at the point of getting enough feedback from people. A number of things had come out, and we had fixed all of them.
-EDIT- Apparently this site doesn't like the standard <> brackets for HTML
I am tired. So very very tired. I always suspected SOE and LA worked hand in hand, so that comes as no surprise. That they would put a spin doctor on this PR disaster doesn't surprise me either. But that all the feedback we have given, all the time we spent testing out and reporting problems is so blatently ignored... how can any company delude itself into thinking it can keep functioning that way?
For me, enough is enough. 7 of our household's accounts are cancelled. But I am a vindictive bitch, and it will not stop at that. SOE and LA may or may not notice my efforts, but I will make very sure to inform each and everyone interested in buying a game exactly what they can expect from these companies. They took away my beloved hobby, and add insult to injury by treating their paying customers like illiterate 10-year olds. And they expect me to say 'thank you' too. Mind-boggling.
I am a European, so I don't think I have the option to participate in a class action suit against SOE / LA. I will, however, follow the proceedings with interest.
Yes, this is a combat upgrade and we expected a combat upgrade and balance. We were told repeatedly that we just had to deal with numerous problems in the game for months because they would be fixed in the CU. We were promised that the CU would not be rushed by any timetable but would be released after extensive testing to make sure it was right.
As the combat balance progressed into the combat upgrade we were told our old system was too broken to be fixed and was being completely overhauled. The old system had armor and buffs that were too strong. Why didn't they just lower the stats on those items? They did adjust the buff system once and could have done more at that time but they didn't. The new system gives high level combat characters 3X the health of new characters and the new characters have no way to come close to that. Where before people could essentially balance themselves if they wanted to, they are now permanently unbalanced. Where before lower level players could avoid combat with higher level opponents, now they don't have much chance when they're frequently one-hit killed.
Some weapons were said to be too strong and rare, overpowered looted and DoT weapons were ruining the game. Again, why weren't modifications made to the crafting system and loot tables adjusted? Just a couple months ago, they finally fixed bugged loots that were dropping weapons with infinite charge DoTs so they weren't misused. At about the same time they introduced anti-decay kits to veteran players that now allowed those rare, overpowered weapons to be used indiscriminantly on everything because they would last forever, instead of being used only for special occasions. Also these weren't just one time use items, but if you were willing to sacrifice whatever it was on, you could just destroy it, reclaim the kit and put it on an even better replacement. So you didn't have to wait for that perfect item to protect. If the game was seriously unbalanced it was due to the devs mismanagement which continued to unbalance things right up until they dumped this upgrade on us. Why should we think this will change when they've never responded to any of these concerns in the past?
They've admitted that the upgrade changes the entire game, not just combat, yet only combat professions are allowed to respec their skills. Although non-combat professions have been rendered useless, had their resources rendered useless, their experimentation changed to remove the challenge and therefore the fun or just had their former role removed with no replacement in sight they are not allowed to change. Despite many now broken, useless skills and items the non-combat professions have been told we can't deal with you now because you don't fall under the scope of the combat upgrade. Once the upgrade has been balanced and refined we'll start working on the other professions. How long are they supposed to keep paying for a game that does not work for them in the hopes that eventually it will be fixed? How can they not fall under the scope of the upgrade when the upgrade has completely redone their profession?
That is the crux of what has so many people so upset. Many of the core, veteran players do not fit the typical gamer demographic. They are older adults, many playing with their entire families, who have the disposible income to pay for multiple accounts. Their primary goal is not to jump in for a short play session and go out and kill things. They were interested in the challenges involved with crafting the best items they could make, finding the best resources available, and even with combat, many weren't looking for the all-powerful template of the month but in developing the best combination of skills for their playstyle.
The way this upgrade was implemented shows that the developers were either unaware of this demographic or decided it was not profitable enough for them to be concerned about. They were willing to sacrifice this loyal, dedicated playerbase for a piece of the mainstream MMORPG audience that hops from game to game as they get bored or games put out new expansions. The new system will make it easier for them to add new expansions which they can now sell us instead of just giving us new content. It's entirely profit driven.
The problem is not that they have changed the system so drastically. If they had just said the old system was not profitable anymore and they couldn't continue with it things would have gone much more smoothly. If we had known the system and game philosophy was to change this drastically we could have prepared for the end of the gaming experience we enjoyed and either left with the advent of the new system or embraced it as something new and different to try. Instead we were misled about just what this upgrade would do to the game. We were encouraged to keep paying our subscriptions while they worked on the upgrade. But instead of a well-tested, balanced combat system we were given an entire revamp of our entire game-style, essentially an entirely new game, that is just as unbalanced as the old one with so many bugs as to make it unplayable for many people. The feeling of betrayal is what has turned so many people off. If I wanted to play this new style of game I would have been playing one of the other games out there that is already doing it right, not paying to beta test this mess. I played SWG for the system, not because it was Star Wars. I could deal with losing a great deal of the work I'd done over the last 2 years if it really was going to help the game I loved. But to be told I should continue to pay to test this new system till they get around to fixing the non-combat parts that are broken is insulting, especially since past experience tells me to expect at least 6 months before any serious fixes will be made if they ever are.
All of the official responses in the last few days just confirm that the game is going in a completely new direction. The new expansion is a completely different style from the rest of the game and it's not a style I'm interested in. All the hype is about how this is the new improved shape of things to come. If that's the case I don't have a problem with leaving, it's not a system I enjoy playing. What I have a problem with is having been misled with false promises and now asked to hang in there and keep paying to test their new system so it's ready for the new type of player they're trying to atract.
The PR is making it sound like the outcry over this expansion is about people that just aren't willing to change. The outcry is over being used and misled for months and the lack of honest answers. You're dealing with an intelligent demographic here that won't fall for this hype. The responses also show it's not just SOE but LucasArts was every bit as involved in this campaign. It's ruined my desire to play this game. I accept that they change over time but I doubt that I'll ever be willing to invest so much time and energy into something that can be changed so drastically overnight and have all that effort negated so easily and with so little regard. No, I have no interest in playing other online games now. If this is how Sony and LucasArts treat their loyal customers I won't be supporting any of their products in the future unless I see real evidence that something has changed.
What's worse, although I didn't play this game for the Star Wars experience, this fiasco has ruined my interest in the entire Star Wars franchise. I saw the original Star Wars movie twice the day it was released but I have very little desire left to see the new movie now.
First, let me say i was a SOE customer for more than 4 years. EQ was my game for most of the time, SWG i started 2003. Due to Station access i also tried EQ2. Not my cup of tea that one btw .
With RL taking more time recently SWG was the perfect game for me. Not to deep (if you compare it to EQ that is). And even with only some hours of playtime one could make a decent progress.
All that is gone now.
What they should have done is calling it SWG2 add some new textures and roll out new servers for those who care and be done with it. But no, suddenly i log in and find SWG merged with EQ2, the worst of both worlds. I followed the forums and find that in anything remotely official the CU critics are bashed. And suddenly i found myself asking *why do i pay them money ?* Couldn't find an answer and cancelled my accounts.
At the moment i check out different trials and am happy with it. I have not decided yet what game i will play in the long run, but one thing is sure: It will definetaly not being made or published by SOE.
There are lots of other games out there. Maybe not with Star Wars Theme, but then, for me, having seen the first 3 movies in the theatre when they where released, SWG misses to much of the so called Star War feeling anyhow. The only planet giving me this feeling in SWG is Tantooine. All others look a bit shaped for Episode 1 and later fans. But thats only me. My point is, i do not need a SWG game to be happy.
I am not stupid enough to believe other games have no problems. They sure do. But the way problems are handled might be different. If not, as i said, there is a lot of games out there and even more are coming.
Did i mention that there are other games out there and even more are going to be released ? I repeat myself here because i am deeply convinced that this information is not avaliable at SOE headquarters. Two years ago the community would have been forced to eat the CURB since there was no other game avaliable. They pulled stunts that angered players a LOT in EQ. People cancelled their accounts and reactivated them weeks later because there was no other game that could compare. Talk about addiction
Nowadays i am not sure the players will come back. Different games, different playing styles, lots of games avaliable (I did mention that, did i ? ). Why come back to a game that is 2 years old with a publisher that showed that the subscribers are not woth a bit for him ?
SOE is no longer alone in the US and European market. SOE was silently passed by NCSoft in the Asia, quite possible also by Square. Blizzard managed to bypass them also in a VERY short period.
One can argue that Blizzards success is based on hype. Very true. But IMHO SOE made Blizzards success possible. Lots of guilds have gone from EQ to WoW, some of the biggest guilds in EQ history. Reason for this was definetely not SOEs good customer relations...
And now we see the same things going on in SWG. And i do not care if it is LA or SOE giving a statement here. As a paying customer i do not care which of them is the guilty party here. I pay to SOE, so SOE is at fault for me. Period. And they tell me they have been ready to loose existing custumers on this revamp in favour of gaining new ones. Well, you got half of your wish. Long time players quit. Lets hope for SOEs sake that the second part comes true. Not that i could care less
Comments
I have already stated I beleive it was a mistake and I do not like them expanding the level system as they did so I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion. Considering how many negative things I have had to say about the CU I am not even sure where you get I am a supporter of it.
HOWEVER I will not sit here and mindlessly flame it without laying down any real facts on why I don't like it. I am not just gonna sit here and rant all day "SOE SUX!!111" and "the CU DOWNGRADE IS HORRIBLE". I have argued some peoples posts that honestly I found completely untrue. You can like the CU or you can dislike it, but don't sit there ranting like a mindless drone and expect me to respect your opinion.
BTW, no offense taken.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I"m a new guy here so my opinion prolly doesn't mean to much, but will spit it out anyways.
I really don't see Fadeus flaming anyone here. If anything, he seems to have the most reasoned posts in these threads. He's shown his obvious disdain of many of the changes to the Combat Upgrade.
Yet at the same time he says SWG needed change. And I don't think anyone with sanity would admit that SWG was perfect. It was in need of change.... BADLY. Yet what was originally a great product was suddenly gutted by some horrid ideas (damage multipliers, CL's, crafter alienation, etc.) and horrid customer relations (Tiggs arrogance that only 50 people opposed the CU, etc.) If you read the reasoned responses, most people will say a lot of the CU is good, it's just that there's probably only 5 real beefs, and those 5 beefs make or break the system.
So let's have a bit of sanity when discussing these issues. Just my opinion.
I do have one question for all of you burned SWGers.
If SOE did role back the CU would you stay with the game?
Would you put your trust - and money, and time - in a company that would do something like this in the first place?
To awnser my own question, I'd think twice before ever purchasing an SOE product. But I'm wondering what you guys think about it.
i sincerely hope that the posted interview was a 'shortened' version....
Jedi characters(the supposedly 'elite' players) were not mentioned at all. The Cu has made grinding jedi skill boxes all but impossible.... Pre-CU, I could average 150k xp per hour... now I have great difficulty averaging 20k xp per hour.
My defenses = decreased, my damage output = decreased, my ability to earn xp = decreased, variety and availability of creatures that reward xp = decreased, ability to fightb multiple opponents simultaneously = practically gone, xp requirements for jedi profession skills = unchanged.
Regular ground professions can earn 3k-5k xp per creature, and 4th tier skill boxes are 450k(avg) xp to earn.... Jedi's earn less than 1k per creature, and 4th tier skill boxes are 1.6 million xp. Where's the balance in that? Also, jedi is the only profession that actually lose xp(and can have a negative xp total) for dying. No other profession suffers such severe penalties.
As for the 'grouping' thing.... ok... your young jedi groups with his/her buddies/guildmates and heads out for some combat fun... so... you earn 60k xp in a short time... then, because of the visibility you collected from your group, the Bounty Hunters come along, kill you, and you lose 200k xp. While the BH's are attacking you(up to 5 of them at once)... your friends are powerless to assist you... all they can do is watch you die in a loud, grotesque manner. So... you actually lost 140k xp for doing what SOE believes it right?... That isn't balance... it's just stupid.
Quit trying to use forum polls as evidence of anything. They are useless, someone that has cookies disabled could have sit there and easily wracked up 500 votes, the only polls that count for anything was the in game testing poll. Man I am so tired of people trying to use that crappy forum poll as some kind of evidence of the player bases feelings. And ontop of it only 1000 votes, and more then likely they were all from the most voicey and spiteful that run to the official forum to get another flame in.
I am not on that vote and I surely wouldnt have voted with the majority on it. You would think when someone sees almost everyone just voted the lowest rating on it they would use alittle common sense and figure that its skewed. Ya the CU has caused alot of pains and there are alot of parts I don't like about it, but give the friggin poll up, its not helping anything other then to make you look that gullable.
I was a member of the CU Alpha Team, reflecting the same numbers in our private forum as the public forums. The team was a "representation of the best players in SWG", according to the devs. I believe the "would you recommend this game to someone else" poll came in at 86% negative.
Believe what you want. They blew it.
Fivo ... old lot minder of mine :-) Long time no read.
Yes, they blew it by going too early and not doing it as planned ... like listening to the Alpha Team (in an Alpha test that never happened and it shows). But IMHO I think they can fix it while we are busy exploring Kashyyyk and its quests. Which are better done than any content they provided so far in SWG.
Others dont want to wait or have grown tired of bug Fixing. I respect that and hope they find a game they like and some of them I will miss (you being one of them).
Have fun
Erillion
(aka Novarider from Naritus)
Had too many to have fun. Thats why I did not use them recently - when lot checking becomes work one should scale back a bit.
But may need them in the future storing Kashyyyk loot and asteroid ore :-)
Have fun
Erillion
No need to apologise, and yes I remember your post and liked it. I just don't wish to sit here and bash.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Thank you Finwe.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
One of the things I've noticed from playing EQ2 and SWG is that SOE don't listen to the people that use their product but rather do what they think is in the customer's best interest. You guys need to stop playing God and come to the realization that it is the consumers that put meals on your table and not SOE.
I have been playing SWG for a very long time, what really disappoints me is the same old bugs (and yes I have submitted trouble tickets) in the game environment still exist while you fixed the combat (which was not broke).
/Amen
I'm Tired of paying for crapy service. If SOE was on the Aprentice Donald Trump would fire SOE for making a product that did not meet the expectations of its customer base.
I think that if you or I were in SOE's shoes we would have thought twice about releasing this so called upgrade. I feel that with all the money that SOE generates in annual income they should deliver a quality product.
Our insatiable apatite for MMORPG, has most of us in a position where SOE can develope low quality products without recourse.
Realizing that this subject has been talked to death over the past week I would like to say that for allot of Veterans of the game including myself I feel hurt they have to cancel their accounts to send a message to SOE; we are not going to pay for crap!
Me and my wife have been playing this game for almost 2 years. I love the whole Star Wars story, and fel in love with this game. But like in real life, love sometimes dies when things change for the worse. I am a Jedi and worked my butt off to get it. I was in full support of a combat upgrade or the balancing of professions. I thought that it was going to be that a elite profession had a decent chance to stand against another elite profession. Of course with some hadicaps being given with Melee vs Ranged in a duel. Jedi's of course being the best of any, as it says in their describing of the profession. JEDI - a trained jedi is able to take on MULTIPLE oppents in combat- anyone that is a jedi or knows a jedi, knows that now this just isn't the truth. I never hunted in groups before the CU, unless it was with my guild or friends and we were doing a High end quest, aka The Vette, Geo cave, NS Stronghold or something along those lines. Don't get me wrong Krayts, NS elders, and some of the High end MOBS should have never been able to be solo'd. That is what I thought was going to be the changes in the CU along with the PvP aspect of it.
The Q&A of the less than informed person, who apearently doesn't play SWG, or is on some serious medication when he does play it, has no clue about what was fun and exciting about the game. I went from being a devoted SWG fan and getting several of my RL friends that love Star Wars as much I do, to start playing the game. To telling them not to bother, the game is ruined and is no longer fun to play. I do like parts of the CU, but crafters, entertainers, and doctors have been for the most part cast aside and left for dead on the SWG road way. It is a sad state of affairs. my accounts run out in july, I really hope that someone that can make the change will reach down between their legs, grab their ears and pull their heads out of their butts. This is the only RPG game that I want to play, hopefully in a couple of months it will still be, but I've learned not to expect much if anything from SOE or Lucas Arts when it comes to fixing what needs to be fixed.
Oh and as far as the 50 Vets posting on the SWG forums. Most of us can't for being banned, me being one of them for my opinions, none of which were vulgar or said in bad taste, on the CU. SOE wants to paint a pretty picture for themsleves, just so they can keep beleiving that they have made an improvement. But as anyone can see here, or on any other forums, that it is far from being what was needed.
IGN has an inteview up with the same clown and a couple others. The whole interview is pretty much the same damage-control spinmeister bunk he curled here. This gem from the last page just takes the cake though. No more of my money for SOE.
"IGNPC: Let's talk about the practical implementation of the upgrade. Why did you guys decide to go live with it when you did?
Dallas Dickinson: We've been testing it for a full month, both internally and on the test center. We were simply not at the point of getting enough feedback from people. A number of things had come out, and we had fixed all of them.
-EDIT-
Apparently this site doesn't like the standard <> brackets for HTML
I am tired. So very very tired. I always suspected SOE and LA worked hand in hand, so that comes as no surprise. That they would put a spin doctor on this PR disaster doesn't surprise me either. But that all the feedback we have given, all the time we spent testing out and reporting problems is so blatently ignored... how can any company delude itself into thinking it can keep functioning that way?
For me, enough is enough. 7 of our household's accounts are cancelled. But I am a vindictive bitch, and it will not stop at that. SOE and LA may or may not notice my efforts, but I will make very sure to inform each and everyone interested in buying a game exactly what they can expect from these companies. They took away my beloved hobby, and add insult to injury by treating their paying customers like illiterate 10-year olds. And they expect me to say 'thank you' too. Mind-boggling.
I am a European, so I don't think I have the option to participate in a class action suit against SOE / LA. I will, however, follow the proceedings with interest.
Linna
Yes, this is a combat upgrade and we expected a combat upgrade and balance. We were told repeatedly that we just had to deal with numerous problems in the game for months because they would be fixed in the CU. We were promised that the CU would not be rushed by any timetable but would be released after extensive testing to make sure it was right.
As the combat balance progressed into the combat upgrade we were told our old system was too broken to be fixed and was being completely overhauled. The old system had armor and buffs that were too strong. Why didn't they just lower the stats on those items? They did adjust the buff system once and could have done more at that time but they didn't. The new system gives high level combat characters 3X the health of new characters and the new characters have no way to come close to that. Where before people could essentially balance themselves if they wanted to, they are now permanently unbalanced. Where before lower level players could avoid combat with higher level opponents, now they don't have much chance when they're frequently one-hit killed.
Some weapons were said to be too strong and rare, overpowered looted and DoT weapons were ruining the game. Again, why weren't modifications made to the crafting system and loot tables adjusted? Just a couple months ago, they finally fixed bugged loots that were dropping weapons with infinite charge DoTs so they weren't misused. At about the same time they introduced anti-decay kits to veteran players that now allowed those rare, overpowered weapons to be used indiscriminantly on everything because they would last forever, instead of being used only for special occasions. Also these weren't just one time use items, but if you were willing to sacrifice whatever it was on, you could just destroy it, reclaim the kit and put it on an even better replacement. So you didn't have to wait for that perfect item to protect. If the game was seriously unbalanced it was due to the devs mismanagement which continued to unbalance things right up until they dumped this upgrade on us. Why should we think this will change when they've never responded to any of these concerns in the past?
They've admitted that the upgrade changes the entire game, not just combat, yet only combat professions are allowed to respec their skills. Although non-combat professions have been rendered useless, had their resources rendered useless, their experimentation changed to remove the challenge and therefore the fun or just had their former role removed with no replacement in sight they are not allowed to change. Despite many now broken, useless skills and items the non-combat professions have been told we can't deal with you now because you don't fall under the scope of the combat upgrade. Once the upgrade has been balanced and refined we'll start working on the other professions. How long are they supposed to keep paying for a game that does not work for them in the hopes that eventually it will be fixed? How can they not fall under the scope of the upgrade when the upgrade has completely redone their profession?
That is the crux of what has so many people so upset. Many of the core, veteran players do not fit the typical gamer demographic. They are older adults, many playing with their entire families, who have the disposible income to pay for multiple accounts. Their primary goal is not to jump in for a short play session and go out and kill things. They were interested in the challenges involved with crafting the best items they could make, finding the best resources available, and even with combat, many weren't looking for the all-powerful template of the month but in developing the best combination of skills for their playstyle.
The way this upgrade was implemented shows that the developers were either unaware of this demographic or decided it was not profitable enough for them to be concerned about. They were willing to sacrifice this loyal, dedicated playerbase for a piece of the mainstream MMORPG audience that hops from game to game as they get bored or games put out new expansions. The new system will make it easier for them to add new expansions which they can now sell us instead of just giving us new content. It's entirely profit driven.
The problem is not that they have changed the system so drastically. If they had just said the old system was not profitable anymore and they couldn't continue with it things would have gone much more smoothly. If we had known the system and game philosophy was to change this drastically we could have prepared for the end of the gaming experience we enjoyed and either left with the advent of the new system or embraced it as something new and different to try. Instead we were misled about just what this upgrade would do to the game. We were encouraged to keep paying our subscriptions while they worked on the upgrade. But instead of a well-tested, balanced combat system we were given an entire revamp of our entire game-style, essentially an entirely new game, that is just as unbalanced as the old one with so many bugs as to make it unplayable for many people. The feeling of betrayal is what has turned so many people off. If I wanted to play this new style of game I would have been playing one of the other games out there that is already doing it right, not paying to beta test this mess. I played SWG for the system, not because it was Star Wars. I could deal with losing a great deal of the work I'd done over the last 2 years if it really was going to help the game I loved. But to be told I should continue to pay to test this new system till they get around to fixing the non-combat parts that are broken is insulting, especially since past experience tells me to expect at least 6 months before any serious fixes will be made if they ever are.
All of the official responses in the last few days just confirm that the game is going in a completely new direction. The new expansion is a completely different style from the rest of the game and it's not a style I'm interested in. All the hype is about how this is the new improved shape of things to come. If that's the case I don't have a problem with leaving, it's not a system I enjoy playing. What I have a problem with is having been misled with false promises and now asked to hang in there and keep paying to test their new system so it's ready for the new type of player they're trying to atract.
The PR is making it sound like the outcry over this expansion is about people that just aren't willing to change. The outcry is over being used and misled for months and the lack of honest answers. You're dealing with an intelligent demographic here that won't fall for this hype. The responses also show it's not just SOE but LucasArts was every bit as involved in this campaign. It's ruined my desire to play this game. I accept that they change over time but I doubt that I'll ever be willing to invest so much time and energy into something that can be changed so drastically overnight and have all that effort negated so easily and with so little regard. No, I have no interest in playing other online games now. If this is how Sony and LucasArts treat their loyal customers I won't be supporting any of their products in the future unless I see real evidence that something has changed.
What's worse, although I didn't play this game for the Star Wars experience, this fiasco has ruined my interest in the entire Star Wars franchise. I saw the original Star Wars movie twice the day it was released but I have very little desire left to see the new movie now.
My 2 cent.
First, let me say i was a SOE customer for more than 4 years. EQ was my game for most of the time, SWG i started 2003. Due to Station access i also tried EQ2. Not my cup of tea that one btw .
With RL taking more time recently SWG was the perfect game for me. Not to deep (if you compare it to EQ that is). And even with only some hours of playtime one could make a decent progress.
All that is gone now.
What they should have done is calling it SWG2 add some new textures and roll out new servers for those who care and be done with it. But no, suddenly i log in and find SWG merged with EQ2, the worst of both worlds. I followed the forums and find that in anything remotely official the CU critics are bashed. And suddenly i found myself asking *why do i pay them money ?* Couldn't find an answer and cancelled my accounts.
At the moment i check out different trials and am happy with it. I have not decided yet what game i will play in the long run, but one thing is sure: It will definetaly not being made or published by SOE.
There are lots of other games out there. Maybe not with Star Wars Theme, but then, for me, having seen the first 3 movies in the theatre when they where released, SWG misses to much of the so called Star War feeling anyhow. The only planet giving me this feeling in SWG is Tantooine. All others look a bit shaped for Episode 1 and later fans. But thats only me. My point is, i do not need a SWG game to be happy.
I am not stupid enough to believe other games have no problems. They sure do. But the way problems are handled might be different. If not, as i said, there is a lot of games out there and even more are coming.
Did i mention that there are other games out there and even more are going to be released ?
I repeat myself here because i am deeply convinced that this information is not avaliable at SOE headquarters. Two years ago the community would have been forced to eat the CURB since there was no other game avaliable. They pulled stunts that angered players a LOT in EQ. People cancelled their accounts and reactivated them weeks later because there was no other game that could compare. Talk about addiction
Nowadays i am not sure the players will come back. Different games, different playing styles, lots of games avaliable (I did mention that, did i ?
). Why come back to a game that is 2 years old with a publisher that showed that the subscribers are not woth a bit for him ?
SOE is no longer alone in the US and European market. SOE was silently passed by NCSoft in the Asia, quite possible also by Square. Blizzard managed to bypass them also in a VERY short period.
One can argue that Blizzards success is based on hype. Very true. But IMHO SOE made Blizzards success possible. Lots of guilds have gone from EQ to WoW, some of the biggest guilds in EQ history. Reason for this was definetely not SOEs good customer relations...
And now we see the same things going on in SWG. And i do not care if it is LA or SOE giving a statement here. As a paying customer i do not care which of them is the guilty party here. I pay to SOE, so SOE is at fault for me. Period. And they tell me they have been ready to loose existing custumers on this revamp in favour of gaining new ones. Well, you got half of your wish. Long time players quit. Lets hope for SOEs sake that the second part comes true. Not that i could care less
Only my 2 cent of course