I have been playing SWG for about 16 months and i'm a tkm and master doctor and things were going well i often grouped with other members of my guild and was having fun untill the CU.Oh my word what a pile of crap my character is just so crap now it's unreal.With CU the TK profession might as well have been deleted because it does not work.TK is master of unarmed or so i thought my combat lv 80 character was forced to fight in his pants because i could not wear my armour well i can handle that but being killed by razor cats which are (i quote NO MATCH FOR ME!!!!!!) and to find that i can do more damage with a rifle i can use for some bizarre reason than my unarmed weapons.I sent an email to SOE telling them the problems i had with my character and how unhappy i was with the CU only to receive an email telling me how to cancel my account!!!!.Well thats just what i did as so it seems have all my friends and most of my guild.If your looking for a mmorpg don't buy SWG unless they remove the CU.Hmmm i wonder what SOE stands for can you fill in the missing word?_ _ _ _ ON EVERYONE!!!!!!!!
If the accomplished players cancelled their account the CU upgrade wasn't good enough for them. However if they do want to make a profit why don't they focus on other people and give another trial. That way new players with a different opinion could join the game and eventually buy it and play it. They should really think about the marketing aspect of the game
It's simple they rushed the CU so the next expansion could be built on the same platform. It seems like SOE modified the current EQ2 system and put it in place so they could save on coding time. It's buggy, the particle effects are loony and not many people like it.
Major problems with SWG:
1. They replaced a fairly unique skill based system and overlaid a level based syste,
2. When there is one PC class in a game that is inherently stronger than the rest hate and elitism ensue. Jedi are 90% of the problem with the game. Solve the problem and make them a normal character at start up. The continuity is already busted.
3. We get very little feedback. The CU was pushed forward by months and then the date was sprung on us at that.
Overall SOE and LA don't handle the community well and push unwanted untested changes on the community.
well, it seems clear to everyone except SOE, that 80% of regular SWG players HATE the CU. so much so, that most of that 80% have cancelled our accounts. ive been to every message board i could find, and believe me, 80% is a conservative estimate. its a ashame that a community with so much love for each other, has to be ripped apart by yet another corporation, that sees nothing except dollar signs as the driving force in a game's development. obviously i will never buy another SOE product, but more to the point, i think i will never purchase any game backed by a major corporation. they just dont care bout anything other than their profit margin. the smaller development companies have a chance to grab a huge chunk of the market, by providing a MMORPG that we can start anew with. combined with an attention to fanbase (that SOE utterly fails at) they could create a RPG that fans could COUNT ON being there for the long haul. i am looking foward to both of TURBINES upcoming RPG's. D&D online and LOTR online will have a special place just knowing im dealing with real people. they need and value our cash MUCH MORE than SOE ever will. think about this when choosing your next MMORPG!
Ok i had a big long post with a full explanation of my opinions but i accidently hit backspace after deelecting chat window and im not retyping all that lol. So to sum it all up CU is way too premature huge baalancing issues not to mention that triple crafters cannot check harvesters. Also Im upset about pulling crafting autonomy away from doc/cm. Biggest problem was Lucas forcing the devs to shove this out way too fast so that they could then shove out RotW too fast (conjecture on that one but conjecture based on past exp). I supported the CU and even did so in TC but I do NOT suport in live yet. I agree it is important but not like this. Im cancelling 1 account keeping the others which are paid up through september and if the game is still in such sorry state by the end of july im just leaving and if you are on sunrunner yes there is a possibilty that you can have my stuff if you are a reb . I do not blame the devs. I blame Lucas Arts, and I blame SOE for forcing the devs hands and ignoring the players for far too long.
Glod Glodsson M RIfle/ M CM Gaspode M Dancer/ M Musician Safept M Pistols/ BH 3040/ medic 2100
EDIT: Im in the market for another MMO right now in anticipation that SOE fails to fix all this any suggestions? And yes jervonics I'm looking forward to LOTR MMO as well cant wait just wish we had a date for even beta testing
Here is another Q&A .. more information .. maybe because the questions were more direct than in the MMORPG-Q&A (so guys .. next time throw them some hardballs !)
05-03-2005 - The Combat Upgrade is here! There has been a bit of an uproar over the changes, some good and some bad. SWG Vault asks the SWG Developers the questions everyone wants answers to, and here is their response!
SWG Vault: Why was the initial design shown to the Correspondents back in August changed around so much as to essentially be a completely different game? The initial goal of the CU was simply to fix the problems and imbalance inherent in the release system, not redesign everything so that we're suddenly playing a new game two years down the road. This has to be the biggest thing bugging anyone at the moment.
Devs: We realized after about three series of design documents that bringing a better combat system to Galaxies would require significant changes to the basic way the game is played. Feedback from the Correspondents back in August definitely played a part in the final design process. While this is a change for the way this game is planed, it's going to allow us to add much more excitement and consequence to combat in the game. Going forward, our new combat system will capture the intensity of the galactic struggle during the time frame of our game. And the only way to accomplish this was to make changes on the scale that we have.
SWG Vault: Whatever happened to 'It'll be released when it's done'? There has been a big stink over the sudden appearance of the CU on the Test Servers without the previously announced closed Alpha and Betas occuring, two phases that were completely necessary to get the CU into a state where it would have been readily received by a vast majority of the playerbase and yet were totally ignored in a perceived push to capitalize on the EP3 marketing campaign.
Devs: The Combat Upgrade was not pushed live due to the upcoming Episode III expansion. The CU has created a platform for the Rage of the Wookiees content that will give players an immersive experience heavily focused on story-driven adventuring and grouping.
Combat Upgrade went live last week because we were at the point where the core mechanics were fully realized and what we were missing was the additional fine tuning that only comes with mass exposure.
SWG Vault: Why, with all the known bugs and issues surrounding the CU as it stood on the Test Servers, was it pushed to Live? Such a huge change to a major componant to the core game should have gone through much more QA and testing and bug fixing before that should have even entered the minds of anyone at LA or SOE. Again, many people feel this was done as part of the EP3 marketing campaign, something that no one at either company has sought to refute.
Devs: Many of the issues that surfaced in live were a function of the conversion and were not necessarily evident before the upgrade went live. Some of the elements players were listing as issues or bugs, were actually already fixed in the live version and some were simply features that players needed to get comfortable with as they were more an issue of reacting to the change than true bugs. We needed to get the code live and in-play with all the innumerable combinations of character skills/professions/game-play styles before any more significant enhancements could be identified.
SWG Vault: With the focus on group play, will it ever be possible for Jedi to group and hunt with guildmates and not gain visibility? With so many people gaining Jedi status, this is becoming a very big issue in a lot of guilds. The Jedi are forced to play by themselves so they will not gain visibilty, and the "missing members" have a deep effect on guild play and social structure.
Devs: It is important for us to mention with respect to the Jedi play experience we are always looking at it and thinking about how to improve it as we realize this is a high-value game system. The issue mentioned above is actually not really directly tied to the Combat Upgrade, they can still choose to group just as they could before the publish. And, just as before there are limitations to the Jedi when with a group. [Julio] The issue is balancing the visibility counter for when Jedi's are in a group, members of the group see the Jedi perform actions and the visibility counter is on. We will be adjusting this counter until the group experience for Jedi's feels right.
SWG Vault: A lot of crafters have been upset with the changes to the system, with their current inventories of resources and goods becoming worthless. What is being planned for the crafting classes to make up for the huge changes that were put in place to revamp combat?
Devs: We are actively trying to look at how to make crafters safe when they go out looking for resources. However, their resources and inventories should not be viewed as being worthless since the combat upgrade publish, in fact they are worth the same amount as they converted to goods with an equivalent value in relative terms.
SWG Vault: The entertainer professions are the ones that seem to be hurt the most by this, with most entertainer classes being rendered nearly useless. This group was already hit pretty hard by AFK buffbots and before that, hologrinding. Do you have specific plans to make the entertainment professions viable again, and if so, could you outline them?
Devs: There were new Inspirations introduced into the game with the Combat Upgrade and there are actually more coming soon!
Also, we have actually removed the "Buffbots" from the game which is an added bonus because it forces players to use the Inspiration system. In addition in May we will be removing the ability to make recursive macros in game, this will eliminate the AFK entertainers and re-establish a place for the real entertainers to enjoy SWG.
Originally posted by jervonics well, it seems clear to everyone except SOE, that 80% of regular SWG players HATE the CU. so much so, that most of that 80% have cancelled our accounts. ive been to every message board i could find, and believe me, 80% is a conservative estimate. its a ashame that a community with so much love for each other, has to be ripped apart by yet another corporation, that sees nothing except dollar signs as the driving force in a game's development. obviously i will never buy another SOE product, but more to the point, i think i will never purchase any game backed by a major corporation. they just dont care bout anything other than their profit margin. the smaller development companies have a chance to grab a huge chunk of the market, by providing a MMORPG that we can start anew with. combined with an attention to fanbase (that SOE utterly fails at) they could create a RPG that fans could COUNT ON being there for the long haul. i am looking foward to both of TURBINES upcoming RPG's. D&D online and LOTR online will have a special place just knowing im dealing with real people. they need and value our cash MUCH MORE than SOE ever will. think about this when choosing your next MMORPG!
You really beleive most of 80% have cancelled? Thats really a shame...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I haven't cancelled anything because I'm on annual so they have my money anyway, but (a) there is no freaking way I'm ordering the Wookiee expansion - what a waste - and (b) I won't lift a finger to renew most of my accounts. I'll probably keep one paid up (but inactive) to hold credits and some uber loot, in the faint hope that someone cleans house in a year or so and the game is brilliant again.
Back in the 1970's, George Lucas unknowningly created the basis for a world-wide phenomenum with the release of Star Wars. Little did anyone at the time realize the far-reaching effects of this movie, and subsequent chapters would have on a the sci-fi fan base. And, it continues to this very day with the coming release of Episode III and the end of the series. Billions of dollars in revenue, legions of fans, product tie-ins too numerous to count all for the sake of a good versus evil story set in a "galaxy far, far away".
And thus the devoted and often rabid fan base was treated to a new and awesome product in the summer of 2003 titled "Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided", a persistent online role-playing game where players could create characters and play with others from around the globe in settings familiar to the Star Wars universe. It was an instant success, despite many "bugs" and errors in programming, and immediately attracted 500,000+ users. Many players even bought additional copies of the game so they could create secondary accounts (or more). Over its almost two years of existence, the game slowly developed a very loyal following, even after some left for new MMORPG titles released in late 2004.
Then, in April 2005, Sony Online Entertainment, entrusted as the progenitors of Lucas' grand story, did the unthinkable. They introduced a new combat system, complete with cartoon-like icons and special effects, without regard for their long-time veteran customers. The player base had ben urging the development team at SOE for a combat "balance" and what they received was a completely new system fraught with errors, broken abilities and a "level" system. The "upgrade", called CU by many, had negative affects on virtually all professions (or classes) in the game and caused an uproar rarely seen in the modern business world. On forums and chat rooms across the globe, the SWG players raged against the CU yet SOE did very little to communicate with its customers and instead deleted negative posts from its forums and banned accounts in an effort to whitewash the outrage. Players held varying opinions of the CU, some supported the changes as beneficial to the game's longevity, but the overall mood of the players was one of anger and mistrust. Accounts were cancelled, protests were lodged and petitions signed but in the end, SOE stood by their decision and it was a costly one.
What can other companies learn from this example? The MMORPG market is constantly changing and one thinks reaching the saturation point. The games that will survive long-term seem to be the ones that maintain a healthy dialogue with their player base and actually consider the ideas and instincts of the majority of their paying customers as viable. Those that rule with a heavy hand soon find themselves either striking a balance with their players or updating their resumes.
Shattered loyalty and saddened hearts, this was the fate of Star Wars Galaxies.
Im not really one to post my opinions on forums, but this was one thing I felt like talking about.
When this CU came out I really thought to myself "how bad could it be?", just like a lot of people I knew were also thinking to themselves. The truth is, everything about it made me hate what the game had become.
I understand what they were trying to do, but my advice to anyone who is playing that doesnt like it: Get out.
You're not paying to make adjustments in your "life" for this gaming company, and shouldn't have to.
SWG Account: Canceled Guess ill just wait for a WoW trial or something...
After reading the responses from Julio, i am pretty sure the SWG Dev email inboxes are being emptied without reading... All he goes on about is how great HE thinks the CU is.
The funniest part, i thought, was about the rollback servers... How could this be the ONLY thing they could have done better?
The idea behind the CU was not all that horrible but the way it has been implimented is pathetic. The difficult to understand icons, the myriad of combat bugs, the complete lack of variety on combat animation, i could go on for ever.
And there i was thinking the 'New' SWG Devs were going to improve on the inadiquicies of the previous crew...
Well done SOE on ruining a perfectly good game to attempt to make more money off of the back of a highly anticipated Star Wars movie.
Originally posted by zoey121 Kingshark, of course they want you to resepc over and over, each time you do you u lose elete boxes, they figure they will "yank " the 12 day resepc then you will be "stuck grinding the rest" Seems to me like the respec was figured in as a way to see how long accounts might be kept...... Oh and those folks that half to group now, just where are they finding the folks to group with???? Cnet on my server was empty prime time so was mining....................
Lose elite boxes? I gain them daily. You can take novice points and convert them into elite points, they convert at 2 novice to 1 elite point. I have gained quite a few levels because of the respec function on experience I would have otherwise just wasted because I never planned to use those skill trees. I think you better give the /respec command a better looking over, you may have missed something unless I am misunderstanding what your saying.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
from Handsnake from the SOE forum. I copied here because its a very good analysis of what had happnened:
Combat Upgrade - An Analysis of a Design Variance
I think that this should be here, as it bears on the subject of this forum. Please take the time to read all of the points as well as the conclusions. Keep responses civil, please.
I have tested the CU since it hit Beta and have been following the CU since publish 7. There are a number of unexpected problems with the implementation of the CU as it stands in Live (and how it developed in beta) that do not track with the available information given over the year since it was announced.
The way the current implementation of the CU is made up has several glaring variances from the previously released info - in that there was one central item that I have identified has caused the majority of the imbalances and problems encountered with the CU.
Putting a 'level' system on top of a skill based system.
This was not in the original CU documentation released on 03/31/05, and data from public statements of sources inside the CU 'sandbox' scheme (without violating NDA) have confirmed that it was never discussed with them to the degree it was implemented.
Herein I will list the worst issues reported about the CU and show that they are all tied directly to the 'level system' implementation that was added to the functional design of the CU.
1. Crafter Death - Crafters are 1 shotted by every aggro mob on every starter planet. The fragility of crafter characters at 'combat level' 1 is extreme. Surveying alone is impossible since spawns will appear under vehicles in motion and mobs will kill crafters in less than 2 seconds. The ability to at least run away has been removed - this makes crafters unable to function at a basic level.
The 'level' system has a damage multiplier. You will see this in further points. This damage multiplier makes anything higher level than you equivalent to instant death. Five levels above you will always kill you. Again, this point will be repeated. Since crafters will not have any combat rating unless they become a hybrid and drop pure crafting, they will always take max damage.
Furthermore, every animal will use the damage multiplier against a base value. There is no such thing, therefore, as a 'safe' enemy for crafters.
This is the result of the 'level' system. Before, each mob had different resists and damage ranges. They had a "threat" level, which was based on how high their offensive and defensive values were. Under the old system, that was the basis of the /con result. This threat level has NO relationship to the current 'combat level' system, no matter what the devs claim in the HOC chat. The threat level was an EVALUATION of an existing mob.
A 'combat level' is a MODIFICATION of a base value mob "angry bag" put into whatever 'skin' is appropriate, i.e, a level 34 dune lizard is the same as a level 34 peko peko.
The new COMBAT LEVEL defines the offensive and defensive values - not the other way around. This is an important distinction, and is critical to understanding the conclusion about the combat level system and why it was added to the CU at such a late date.
2. XP gains and lack of same: A significant number of people are finding odd results from attacking mobs slightly below their level and higher - as in getting little to no XP. The response of the devs is to have people focus on just fighting even leveled mobs.
The real question is: Why was the XP variance put in the CU in the first place? XP gains or rates of gains was NEVER addressed as a concern in the Combat Upgrade. It did not affect combat in any way, shape, or form in PVP, nor were there "problems" about the flavor of combat that were caused by XP being gained by anything you defeated.
It was never an issue at all.
However, in 'level' based systems, the paradigm is that LEVEL DETERMINES XP AT ALL TIMES.
In a skill based system, mobs are worth what they are worth - period.
The XP dilemma is a byproduct of the introduction of the level based combat overlay - and that is it. It offers NO positive effects to the pace of combat, the usability and distinction of all combat professions, the tactical nature of combat - in fact, it hinders advancement. It does nothing that the CU was written to do - at all. It has no purpose.
It has nothing to do with lessening the effects of overpowered buffs and armor and does nothing to address ANY SINGLE ITEM mentioned in the CU Documentation.
It is, in fact, the unavoidable side effect of the use of the level system. It was NEVER a goal of the CU and is present ONLY because a level system was introduced. The reason why it was is the kicker.
3. Certifications of weapons being based on level - Many people think that this was INTENDED. It was not. This was a FIX put in to deal with the fact that the level system made xp vanish from 'low level' mobs for people grinding their 2nd elite combat prof. The 'level' system FORCED the removal of certs tied to skills. Else, a TKM attempting to grind pistols would never be able to do so as long as the level system was in place - he couldn't kill anything ever that gave him Pistol XP.
So they pulled pistols (and all other weapons) from skill boxes and tied them to 'combat levels' as a work around for this unplanned-for circumstance. They did this with all the weapons at first, then came back to address the idea of a TKM/Ranger using a beam rifle. So a very few 'iconic' weapons were tied to skill boxes.
This is a cheat.
The original design of the CU, again, had NOTHING in it about un-latching the weapons from skill boxes.
It was because - simply put - The CU Was Never To Be Level Based.
XP was therefore NEVER supposed To Be 'Gated' to mob level comparisons. Crafters Were Never Supposed to be unable to walk outside. Weapons Were Never to be "floating" - they were supposed to be ADDITIVE* *(Commando/Rifleman was supposed to be able to use a beam weapon with a rifle special - ADDITIVE as in Ranged do ranged - melee does melee and the certs ADD)
So - if you've read this far - you're asking yourself "Why the hell did they put in the level system? What POSSIBLE use could it be?"
Mobs. Mobs, deadlines, and stats. Converting all the existing mobs to be balanced before May 5th was impossible. The only explanation is that they imposed the level system on the mobs because a level system makes the generation of mobs EASY.
You have 2 types of mobs - Humanoid and Non-Humanoid. You have 2 types of each of those - melee only, and ranged primary/melee secondary. These make each mob into an "angry bag" that can have a skin thrown on it, and the level system DEFINES THE DAMAGE DONE AT ALL TIMES TO ANYONE.
Quick. Easy. Fast.
No coding 350 different 'species' each with different xp values, resists, and attack values (not to mention individual, named mobs). Just a bag with a level, attack subroutine, and a skin on it. Damage multipliers (remember those?) will automatically generate "challenge". Damage mitigation due to level differences will SIMULATE weakening defenses.
Bam. Done. Quick. Easy. Fast. And WORTHLESS.
That's what they did. That's the MAIN problem with the CU. Take out the level system - leaving everything else in - and you have a viable product. You have crafters able to run away from things even without buffs and armor You have people able to still use the weapons they expect to use. And you won't encounter people UNABLE to progress in their profession. You have to do one thing though - you have to work on mobs and MAKE THEM WORK RIGHT.
It takes time which they claim they don't have. The Level system is like putting wallpaper over a broken window. It's a cheap easy and BAD fix that made more problems than they understood. Without it, the CU would work.
I do appreciate the effort and trying to get some good answers out of them. They however pretty much dodged everything you asked with a fairly pc answer that has no real meaning. This is why I don't care for prewritten QA's that they can read over and answer however they want without worry of having to elaborate on whatever they say.
This Q&A was honestly pretty worthless, it doesn't say anything. Maybe its soothing the stockholders alittle but I don't see where it will have any value at all to a player. I want to see them nail down some hard facts to serious questions, and have to explain themselves, not yet another "feel good" Q & A that leaves them every opportunity to not answer the question.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by cmcmaha "The Road Well-Travelled": Back in the 1970's, George Lucas unknowningly created the basis for a world-wide phenomenum with the release of Star Wars. Little did anyone at the time realize the far-reaching effects of this movie, and subsequent chapters would have on a the sci-fi fan base. And, it continues to this very day with the coming release of Episode III and the end of the series. Billions of dollars in revenue, legions of fans, product tie-ins too numerous to count all for the sake of a good versus evil story set in a "galaxy far, far away". And thus the devoted and often rabid fan base was treated to a new and awesome product in the summer of 2003 titled "Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided", a persistent online role-playing game where players could create characters and play with others from around the globe in settings familiar to the Star Wars universe. It was an instant success, despite many "bugs" and errors in programming, and immediately attracted 500,000+ users. Many players even bought additional copies of the game so they could create secondary accounts (or more). Over its almost two years of existence, the game slowly developed a very loyal following, even after some left for new MMORPG titles released in late 2004. Then, in April 2005, Sony Online Entertainment, entrusted as the progenitors of Lucas' grand story, did the unthinkable. They introduced a new combat system, complete with cartoon-like icons and special effects, without regard for their long-time veteran customers. The player base had ben urging the development team at SOE for a combat "balance" and what they received was a completely new system fraught with errors, broken abilities and a "level" system. The "upgrade", called CU by many, had negative affects on virtually all professions (or classes) in the game and caused an uproar rarely seen in the modern business world. On forums and chat rooms across the globe, the SWG players raged against the CU yet SOE did very little to communicate with its customers and instead deleted negative posts from its forums and banned accounts in an effort to whitewash the outrage. Players held varying opinions of the CU, some supported the changes as beneficial to the game's longevity, but the overall mood of the players was one of anger and mistrust. Accounts were cancelled, protests were lodged and petitions signed but in the end, SOE stood by their decision and it was a costly one. What can other companies learn from this example? The MMORPG market is constantly changing and one thinks reaching the saturation point. The games that will survive long-term seem to be the ones that maintain a healthy dialogue with their player base and actually consider the ideas and instincts of the majority of their paying customers as viable. Those that rule with a heavy hand soon find themselves either striking a balance with their players or updating their resumes. Shattered loyalty and saddened hearts, this was the fate of Star Wars Galaxies.
Did you ever think that LA might actually have some responsibility for this instead of just continually pointing the finger at SOE? LA doesn't exactly have a perfect track record lately, the game company that at one time brought us games like Full Throttle and Sam & Max can't seem to come up with anything original anymore. The company should be renamed Star Wars Arts, because apparently thats all the can dream up anymore.
Your post is rather skewed. And really, give the icons a break, they are buttons, thats it, not a game stopping issue. And some of us actually PREFER them over that horridly bland interface with the stickmen.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So the game has been redesigned. Yes. That will happen in a market where there is a need to keep things viable. For those of you who dont know, WoW EQ2 and SWG are in the process of making it possible to play your character in either game. So that would be why it seems like we are playing a clone of these games.
At the end of the day, they are a business and need to make a profit. This will mean that things will change to things that we would rather not have. I dont doubt for a second that the powers that be of this game have not weighed up all of the possible outcomes. They are a million dollar corporation whose sole intention is to make a viable product which will in turn, make a profit. Trust me, they think these things through...ALOT!!
I have spent some time playing this new system. I think its not as bad as poeple think. I think what people are feeling is alot of the "in game ego" has been deminsihed because they are no longer "uber l33t". I hunted with a grp today and apart from going from nov scout to ranger 4444 in 4 hours, everyone in both the groups I participated in commented on how much fun it was. Personally, I think its a little more realistic now. Solo a what looks to be a 200 tonne lizard with a sythe isnt really viable. I mean, think about it. I dont recall Han Solo getting buffed and walking through 50 ST's and coming out of it unscathed. For those of you saying now its to hard to grind your jedi.....umm HELLO, its a jedi, they are being hunted by mandate of the Emperor...its not meant to be a walk in the park. Further more, this is meant to be set after the destruction of the Death Star......THERE WERE NO JEDI!! But they exist, and now they should be the elite of the elite. For only those who are willing to take the time and level their character up deserve this. Not those who grind and expect to do it in a day. Yes, I did just say I did ranger in four hours, but thats because I was getting 4x XP....and I was in a group of masters, but a jedi and ranger are slightly different.
The silliest complaint I have heard, has been about the icons. Whats so hard to figure out?? Hold your mouse over them and the explanation comes up. When we all started playing this life sucking game, we didnt know all of the icons then either...and they didnt make sense then too.
80% cancelled accounts......a little prone to exageration arent we. I still see plenty of people running around.
To sum up, THIS IS LIFE. We have Companies that do waht they want because why?? Because they can...its their product. We have complainers complaining about everything...all of the boards are a big gripe half the time. Seriously, suck it up and take it like a man/woman. Life aint fair and thats that. For me, the glass is always half full.
Heres a thought, are the ones who are complaing...are they the same ones selling credits and jedi accounts on Ebay??? I wonder...are they just upset cause their lively hood has been flushed?? FOr everyone else.....ITS JUST A GAME, go spend time with your family/loved ones/ friends. Remind them that you still exist and arent having your life ruled by A GAME.
I have to say, the answers given in this interview could well be the biggest load of crap i have ever read.
To say combat is now fast paced and exciting is a downright lie. Combat is slow, dull and predictable, and even a 12 year old could write a macro to perform all required combat actions at the correct time due to the new 'predictive' system. You know prior to combat starting exactly how much damage you will take in a given time and exactly how much you will deal (give or take a miss or 2), and as such will also know exactly when you will need to heal. It is a very poor combat system.
Second, the majority of people who are unhappy with the upgrade aren't unhappy that it is a major change after two years as stated. Its more due to the fact the swg dev team ignored all feedback and the vast majority of bug reports from those who beta tested it, who put in time to try and help make it fun. Then it was pushed to live full of bugs, unbalanced and only 25% playable.. as a jedi myself i simply cannot level in the new system and it has been 6 from going live where we have had no response from the dev team regarding the many game-breaking issues for jedi.
The ui is extremely horrible, and contrary to what was said in the interview, there is absolutely no technical reason as to why the monochrome icons had to be changed to full colour. They are neither intuitive or an improvement on the old ones. Yes there is a windup and cooldown phase as shown on the icons now, but because of the bright gaudy colours its practically impossible to tell what phase each one is at, they really need to allow an option to switch back the icons, and increase the contrast of the windup/cooldown cycles so you can actually see what is going on.
And to quote directly: "new UI look and feel is essential to achieving the immersive Star Wars-y combat everyone wants from Galaxies". Please! The new ui looks more at home in some final fantasy cartoon than the star wars universe. People stated right from day 1 of the open beta that the icons were horrible and in no way looked 'starwarsy'. Again, this feedback was completely ignored by the dev team.
Crafting has also been dumbed down beyond belief.
And as for group play. Does that mean the end of bounty hunter missions on jedi? Because if i even considered grouping with friends for more than a couple of fights, you could bet i would have a whole army of bounty hunters decend onto me (i know its only supposed to be 5, but that is yet another thing broken, and there have been reports of 15 and more bh's taking a single jedi mission at a time).
The final statement is arrogance beyond belief. The only thing wrong was the screwup they made of the 2 server conversions? How about pushing the whole thing to live 2 weeks early filled with bugs and imbalances that has so far costs them many 1000's of accounts. So many that today John Smedley, the head honcho of SOE had to come and make a post to help quell the flames on the swg forums. Or how about that, due to not listening to the player base, they have sucked out 99% of all that was fun about the game? Or that the push to live was purely for marketing reasons to cash in on the forthcoming movie?
All i can say for sure, is if the massive negative feedback in all the press that the cu has had affects the movie audience figures, a certain Mr Lucas will ensure heads will roll, and personally i hope he does.
Originally posted by chinpokomon So the game has been redesigned. Yes. That will happen in a market where there is a need to keep things viable. For those of you who dont know, WoW EQ2 and SWG are in the process of making it possible to play your character in either game. So that would be why it seems like we are playing a clone of these games.
errrr, ummmmm. That was an april's fools joke.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
As a 2 year veteran player reading this, it's apparent that LucasArts is as much at fault over the changes as SoE is, and deserves equal blame.
CU destroyed the core functionality of the game, and replaced it with Everquest 2. We did not buy Everquest 2, nor any similar game. We bought, and played, Star Wars Galaxies. The game on the Live servers, obviously bug riddled and still unbalanced, has taken a turn for the worse, and if LucasArts is bound and determined to stand up for the CU, I can see their contempt for the subscribers is much the same as Sony Online's.
The anger and frustration level is so high among a large portion of the playerbase, it's being felt all over. Any continued spin, or continuing lies from SoE or LucasArts about how the player base "overwhelmingly supports" combat downgrade, will only serve as more egg on the faces of both companies as consumers realize the obvious and make sound choices to leave this game, as well as LucasArts & SoE without their subscriptions.
Let's face facts and show the CU for what it really is. It's an attempt to make SWG more dependant on groups and less flexable. Personally, I don't like to group unless I'm going after something hard like a NS elder or a Ancient Krayt Dragon. Sue me, that's just me. When I did group at those times, I was truly a blast, but it wasn't something I wanted to do on a daily basis. Basically, the system was flexable and allowed me to do what I wanted to.
Enter the CU. Now to do anything, I need to group up. Does LA or SOE have any idea how hard it is to get the right group together? Especially since I'm just a Novice Jedi. I don't dare get within 32m of my fellow guildmates or else I risk getting ganked by Bounty Hunters. Is this fun? I don't think so. I won't even go into the fact that I can now only fight for 45 seconds then have to wait for 15 minutes for my forcebar to recharge. I have patient friends, but not that patient.
The CU was the final straw for me. I'm very upset that I finally got to the point I always wanted only to be told by LA and SOE that all my 2 years of hard work was all for nothing. I'm not alone. On my server, my guild is easily the largest there (250 members). Of that membership almost half are gone because of the CU and almost half of the ones that are left have cancelled their accounts and are just waiting for them to run out.
That being said, there are good things about the CU. PVP, so I am told (novice Jedi, don't dare take the chance of dying) is much better under the new system. Too bad that the majority of players are PVE players.
According to this interview with Julio, the game is now supposed to be faster-paced, more star wars like, and decisions you make in combat are more important. When I first started testing CU on TC, I was thinking "Awesome, they're finally making the game worth playing!" But the problem is, CU did the exact opposite of what it was promised to do. Combat is boring, it's a matter of 'sit there and press the same button over and over again.' You make a different decision in combat, and it doesn't hurt or help, you're still going to get slaughtered by things 12 levels below you unless you're in a group. They changed the sound effects of weapons to sound like a video game, rather than the blaster sound effects from before that they had directly ripped from the movies. And I once watched two people duel for 3 hours straight before they gave up and called a draw: not exactly faster paced.
We never needed nor wanted such a blatant downgrade to the system, we didn't need the combat system dumbed-down like it is now. What we wanted and have been asking for since Galaxies was released was a balancing of the current professions, not destroying them competely and trying to make something useful out of the debris. Now the game has become so boring that I find myself playing EQ again just to pass the time until I can find a good RPG that SOE hasn't completely screwed over from over-patching. In the mean time, I'm one of hundreds who have cancelled my account, and am giving my character's items away to guild members. It's too boring now, nothing interesting ever happens. About the only thing they did right in this patch was make stormtroopers easier to kill, like in the movies, rather than have one stormtrooper become a sudden ace marksman and take a hundred blaster bolts in the chest before even grunting.
I'm glad someone finally listened to our cries, even if it took a major website, but thing is, it was from Lucas Arts, not SOE. SOE still doesn't seem to have customer service in mind...huh, go figure.
From SOE and Lucasarts, the makers of SWG, comes TOOLBAR. TOOLBAR is the new exciting, fast paced MMO that is taking the gaming community by storm. Based off the popular and innovative SWG engine, TOOLBAR raises the BAR on sci-fi adventure in an online world populated with an ever-dwindling player base. Some of the games features include:
· An 18-block toolbar filled with obnoxiously colored icons that relate to absolutely nothing in the game. This toolbar is the main focal point of the game and is where the entire fast paced, exciting action will take place. I just sit there and stare at this toolbar waiting for my next move. If I stop looking at it Im lost as to what action is happening next and when it will fire. I literally cant take my eyes off of it, damn it! claims one satisfied beta tester. · A confusing and disorienting lightshow looms just inches away from the main action of the toolbar! You will be dazzled by the easy to understand special effects as they guide your hand through the fast paced, exciting combat! Did I just hit my target? Did my dizzy stick? Why do white rings encircle my character? Was that really a nuclear blast as I mounted my swoop? Am I having a seizure? These questions and more will be racing through your mind as you try to grasp what exactly is happening! And for good measure, these light effects stay with your character for the rest the gaming experience! · Realistic and authentic Star Wars sounds. The flaccid thud as your sword renders a Worrt in two! The generic whoosh of every firearm as the blaster bolts fly! Its like living in the movies (if you were deaf)! · New and exciting weapons. Granted there are now only two damage types to choose from, but never mind that look at all the new and exciting weapons! Thrill as the Master Commando races into combat wielding his Long Vibro Axe or Razor Knucklers, two weapons synonymous with the profession! · And for all you crafter/entertainer types, dont worry; you werent left out of the fun. Those professions were not removed from the game!!! Amazing!
The new game was best summed up by a SOE/LA spokesman, Basically what weve done here is taken the SWG interface and force-fed it EverQuest II, waited a few hours and used what came out the other end. What we were really striving for, and I believe we pulled off brilliantly, was to find a way to kick our loyal customer base in the teeth, but in a virtual way. Now that its so close to going live (bug-free I might add) and every single subscriber is shouting its praises from the rooftops I feel our job is over, and well done to boot. No need to look at the game forums with this baby, our polls show the game is rating a 5 on a scale of 5-4-1-3-2 with 5 being the best. Did that make sense? Good. Now if youll excuse me I have an extremely large check to cash.
SWG : TOOLBAR Are you ready? Coming to live servers 5/5 regardless of what you say Brought to you by SOE and LA: Just give us the money
I am personally trying to enjoy the "CU", but I really miss the old SWG, I have a crafting dancer account that is totally worthless. I believe that her subscription runs out in the middle of May. I feel very bad they destroyed the game that I was very passionate about.
/salute SWG
To SOE and LA I hope you enjoy this post, it describes what you have done to SWG.
I liked the analysis from handsnake.. I think its closer to the mark than not.
I've been with it since the beginning, and I think it will progressively get "fixed" going forward. But for the interrum its hard to want to play it, because your not sure what to do, or how to do it. Master TKMs dying from flocks of borgles just seems wrong. So I'm giving it a break for a while to see what fixes may come through. Most professions "specials" got completely removed and replaced with things that aren't similar (I'm a rifleman for instance).. I went from two versions of dizzy, two versions of stun, a strafing shot, two overpower shots, two head shot bleeders, two regular headshots.. down to about 5 buttons of questionable use.
Though my personal opinion is they consolidated the source with EQ2, probably to cut down on programmers. They saw the popularity of WoW, and used it as an excuse to change swg and get the codebase in line with EQ2 at the same time. I'm sure they'll save a bundle.
1) It's not just that crafting got harder it that when crafters go to thier harvestors they get icapped and killed by every NPC out there. Not much defense for a level 1 crafter. Try getting a few players top "watch your back" as you go harvesting. You can only get levels by combat so it sucks to be me I guess.
2) Yes, he was absolutley right, you can solo some of the game - you won't get expereince points for it because anything you take on at or near your level will clean your clock . And if you do manage to kill the MOB it takes you a very long time with very little reward in the way of expereince points. IN order to move forward in the game you MUST group. Not a problem if you have several hours to spare but if you only have 90 minutes, forget about it.
3) The CU was pushed out to maximize the connection to Revenge of the Sith release. The devs have learned that a lot of people will pay $15 a month to beta test this product.
4) The developers must have an unnatural love of thier NPCs and MOBs. They have to feel pain anytime one of them is taken down. The idea of this rebalence seems to be make the MOBs tougher and the players weaker.
5) Finally there is a rampant , reoccuring thread that this was all done to ready SWG for XBOX , PLAYSTATION and other consoles. It's the only thing that makes sense in what they did.
Not likely, I'm afraid. The new UI I can deal with, the particle effects I can stomach to a point but combat sickens me. Get a group, ANY group and you'll get one shotted by the things that I used to hunt. Go hunt Greak Dunke Kimogilas at CL 150, I had a full set of padded armor, CoB active and an extra def boost from docs and specials (sword flurry) and I have 199 base melee def and I still get one shotted. Then, after I die, the GDK disengages combat and walks away. My team's autoattack disengages so they auto-peace and if they dare attack it again another person will die. By the time I get revived the GDK has fully healed and we're back to square one and my armor's condition is rapidly decreasing.
Some creatures have been "balanced" to refit the system. Krayts that I see are CL 80-81. Pfft! The DWB can be taken by 2 able people. The geo cave, you cant get through the first door without getting one-shotted by a kwi. These are the "balance" issues that should have been fixed in, what, closed beta? No, waut, no closed beta... open beta? no, wait, most were lower lvl people trying to grind the new system and dont forget that playerbase feedback is worthless these days, no matter what has been said otherwise.
I hear crafters crying out about the new CL system and the jedi crying out about about visibility issues and I am neither of these yet I feel their pain and hope they also get the fixes they deserve. Meanwhile, SOE and LA is saying they basically achieved their goal when most of the playerbase is saying otherwise. i'm all for a challenge here and there but to make it so I HAVE to group to do missions I would normally get ALONE... well, I think not. That's BS. What is given to me on the terms I should be able to solo without needing to heal after every kill. Creatures should not heal so fast (faster than a PC) and have you seen the sheer spawn numbers? Dozens for a grouped mission! PER SPAWN! All those creatures at the mission PLUS all the random spawns that have the same number of critters around it. If they're aggro you've got a few dozen CL 50 to worry about that give you 1 xp for all your trouble and then you still have to do your mission.
I'm not sure what game these people are playing but this is rediculous
Comments
If the accomplished players cancelled their account the CU upgrade wasn't good enough for them. However if they do want to make a profit why don't they focus on other people and give another trial. That way new players with a different opinion could join the game and eventually buy it and play it. They should really think about the marketing aspect of the game
It's simple they rushed the CU so the next expansion could be built on the same platform. It seems like SOE modified the current EQ2 system and put it in place so they could save on coding time. It's buggy, the particle effects are loony and not many people like it.
Major problems with SWG:
1. They replaced a fairly unique skill based system and overlaid a level based syste,
2. When there is one PC class in a game that is inherently stronger than the rest hate and elitism ensue. Jedi are 90% of the problem with the game. Solve the problem and make them a normal character at start up. The continuity is already busted.
3. We get very little feedback. The CU was pushed forward by months and then the date was sprung on us at that.
Overall SOE and LA don't handle the community well and push unwanted untested changes on the community.
Ok i had a big long post with a full explanation of my opinions but i accidently hit backspace after deelecting chat window and im not retyping all that lol. So to sum it all up CU is way too premature huge baalancing issues not to mention that triple crafters cannot check harvesters. Also Im upset about pulling crafting autonomy away from doc/cm. Biggest problem was Lucas forcing the devs to shove this out way too fast so that they could then shove out RotW too fast (conjecture on that one but conjecture based on past exp). I supported the CU and even did so in TC but I do NOT suport in live yet. I agree it is important but not like this. Im cancelling 1 account keeping the others which are paid up through september and if the game is still in such sorry state by the end of july im just leaving and if you are on sunrunner yes there is a possibilty that you can have my stuff if you are a reb
. I do not blame the devs. I blame Lucas Arts, and I blame SOE for forcing the devs hands and ignoring the players for far too long.
Glod Glodsson M RIfle/ M CM
Gaspode M Dancer/ M Musician
Safept M Pistols/ BH 3040/ medic 2100
EDIT: Im in the market for another MMO right now in anticipation that SOE fails to fix all this any suggestions? And yes jervonics I'm looking forward to LOTR MMO as well cant wait just wish we had a date for even beta testing
Here is another Q&A .. more information .. maybe because the questions were more direct than in the MMORPG-Q&A (so guys .. next time throw them some hardballs !)
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05-03-2005 - The Combat Upgrade is here! There has been a bit of an uproar over the changes, some good and some bad. SWG Vault asks the SWG Developers the questions everyone wants answers to, and here is their response!
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SWG Vault: Why was the initial design shown to the Correspondents back in August changed around so much as to essentially be a completely different game? The initial goal of the CU was simply to fix the problems and imbalance inherent in the release system, not redesign everything so that we're suddenly playing a new game two years down the road. This has to be the biggest thing bugging anyone at the moment.
Devs: We realized after about three series of design documents that bringing a better combat system to Galaxies would require significant changes to the basic way the game is played. Feedback from the Correspondents back in August definitely played a part in the final design process. While this is a change for the way this game is planed, it's going to allow us to add much more excitement and consequence to combat in the game. Going forward, our new combat system will capture the intensity of the galactic struggle during the time frame of our game. And the only way to accomplish this was to make changes on the scale that we have.
SWG Vault: Whatever happened to 'It'll be released when it's done'? There has been a big stink over the sudden appearance of the CU on the Test Servers without the previously announced closed Alpha and Betas occuring, two phases that were completely necessary to get the CU into a state where it would have been readily received by a vast majority of the playerbase and yet were totally ignored in a perceived push to capitalize on the EP3 marketing campaign.
Devs: The Combat Upgrade was not pushed live due to the upcoming Episode III expansion. The CU has created a platform for the Rage of the Wookiees content that will give players an immersive experience heavily focused on story-driven adventuring and grouping.
Combat Upgrade went live last week because we were at the point where the core mechanics were fully realized and what we were missing was the additional fine tuning that only comes with mass exposure.
SWG Vault: Why, with all the known bugs and issues surrounding the CU as it stood on the Test Servers, was it pushed to Live? Such a huge change to a major componant to the core game should have gone through much more QA and testing and bug fixing before that should have even entered the minds of anyone at LA or SOE. Again, many people feel this was done as part of the EP3 marketing campaign, something that no one at either company has sought to refute.
Devs: Many of the issues that surfaced in live were a function of the conversion and were not necessarily evident before the upgrade went live. Some of the elements players were listing as issues or bugs, were actually already fixed in the live version and some were simply features that players needed to get comfortable with as they were more an issue of reacting to the change than true bugs. We needed to get the code live and in-play with all the innumerable combinations of character skills/professions/game-play styles before any more significant enhancements could be identified.
SWG Vault: With the focus on group play, will it ever be possible for Jedi to group and hunt with guildmates and not gain visibility? With so many people gaining Jedi status, this is becoming a very big issue in a lot of guilds. The Jedi are forced to play by themselves so they will not gain visibilty, and the "missing members" have a deep effect on guild play and social structure.
Devs: It is important for us to mention with respect to the Jedi play experience we are always looking at it and thinking about how to improve it as we realize this is a high-value game system. The issue mentioned above is actually not really directly tied to the Combat Upgrade, they can still choose to group just as they could before the publish. And, just as before there are limitations to the Jedi when with a group. [Julio] The issue is balancing the visibility counter for when Jedi's are in a group, members of the group see the Jedi perform actions and the visibility counter is on. We will be adjusting this counter until the group experience for Jedi's feels right.
SWG Vault: A lot of crafters have been upset with the changes to the system, with their current inventories of resources and goods becoming worthless. What is being planned for the crafting classes to make up for the huge changes that were put in place to revamp combat?
Devs: We are actively trying to look at how to make crafters safe when they go out looking for resources. However, their resources and inventories should not be viewed as being worthless since the combat upgrade publish, in fact they are worth the same amount as they converted to goods with an equivalent value in relative terms.
SWG Vault: The entertainer professions are the ones that seem to be hurt the most by this, with most entertainer classes being rendered nearly useless. This group was already hit pretty hard by AFK buffbots and before that, hologrinding. Do you have specific plans to make the entertainment professions viable again, and if so, could you outline them?
Devs: There were new Inspirations introduced into the game with the Combat Upgrade and there are actually more coming soon!
Also, we have actually removed the "Buffbots" from the game which is an added bonus because it forces players to use the Inspiration system. In addition in May we will be removing the ability to make recursive macros in game, this will eliminate the AFK entertainers and re-establish a place for the real entertainers to enjoy SWG.
You really beleive most of 80% have cancelled? Thats really a shame...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
"The Road Well-Travelled":
Back in the 1970's, George Lucas unknowningly created the basis for a world-wide phenomenum with the release of Star Wars. Little did anyone at the time realize the far-reaching effects of this movie, and subsequent chapters would have on a the sci-fi fan base. And, it continues to this very day with the coming release of Episode III and the end of the series. Billions of dollars in revenue, legions of fans, product tie-ins too numerous to count all for the sake of a good versus evil story set in a "galaxy far, far away".
And thus the devoted and often rabid fan base was treated to a new and awesome product in the summer of 2003 titled "Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided", a persistent online role-playing game where players could create characters and play with others from around the globe in settings familiar to the Star Wars universe. It was an instant success, despite many "bugs" and errors in programming, and immediately attracted 500,000+ users. Many players even bought additional copies of the game so they could create secondary accounts (or more). Over its almost two years of existence, the game slowly developed a very loyal following, even after some left for new MMORPG titles released in late 2004.
Then, in April 2005, Sony Online Entertainment, entrusted as the progenitors of Lucas' grand story, did the unthinkable. They introduced a new combat system, complete with cartoon-like icons and special effects, without regard for their long-time veteran customers. The player base had ben urging the development team at SOE for a combat "balance" and what they received was a completely new system fraught with errors, broken abilities and a "level" system. The "upgrade", called CU by many, had negative affects on virtually all professions (or classes) in the game and caused an uproar rarely seen in the modern business world. On forums and chat rooms across the globe, the SWG players raged against the CU yet SOE did very little to communicate with its customers and instead deleted negative posts from its forums and banned accounts in an effort to whitewash the outrage. Players held varying opinions of the CU, some supported the changes as beneficial to the game's longevity, but the overall mood of the players was one of anger and mistrust. Accounts were cancelled, protests were lodged and petitions signed but in the end, SOE stood by their decision and it was a costly one.
What can other companies learn from this example? The MMORPG market is constantly changing and one thinks reaching the saturation point. The games that will survive long-term seem to be the ones that maintain a healthy dialogue with their player base and actually consider the ideas and instincts of the majority of their paying customers as viable. Those that rule with a heavy hand soon find themselves either striking a balance with their players or updating their resumes.
Shattered loyalty and saddened hearts, this was the fate of Star Wars Galaxies.
The Force WAS with us, then came the CU!
Im not really one to post my opinions on forums, but this was one thing I felt like talking about.
When this CU came out I really thought to myself "how bad could it be?", just like a lot of people I knew were also thinking to themselves. The truth is, everything about it made me hate what the game had become.
I understand what they were trying to do, but my advice to anyone who is playing that doesnt like it: Get out.
You're not paying to make adjustments in your "life" for this gaming company, and shouldn't have to.
SWG Account: Canceled
Guess ill just wait for a WoW trial or something...
After reading the responses from Julio, i am pretty sure the SWG Dev email inboxes are being emptied without reading... All he goes on about is how great HE thinks the CU is.
The funniest part, i thought, was about the rollback servers... How could this be the ONLY thing they could have done better?
The idea behind the CU was not all that horrible but the way it has been implimented is pathetic. The difficult to understand icons, the myriad of combat bugs, the complete lack of variety on combat animation, i could go on for ever.
And there i was thinking the 'New' SWG Devs were going to improve on the inadiquicies of the previous crew...
Well done SOE on ruining a perfectly good game to attempt to make more money off of the back of a highly anticipated Star Wars movie.
Lose elite boxes? I gain them daily. You can take novice points and convert them into elite points, they convert at 2 novice to 1 elite point. I have gained quite a few levels because of the respec function on experience I would have otherwise just wasted because I never planned to use those skill trees. I think you better give the /respec command a better looking over, you may have missed something unless I am misunderstanding what your saying.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
from Handsnake from the SOE forum. I copied here because its a very good analysis of what had happnened:
Combat Upgrade - An Analysis of a Design Variance
I think that this should be here, as it bears on the subject of this forum.
Please take the time to read all of the points as well as the conclusions. Keep responses civil, please.
I have tested the CU since it hit Beta and have been following the CU since publish 7.
There are a number of unexpected problems with the implementation of the CU as it stands in Live (and how it developed in beta) that do not track with the available information given over the year since it was announced.
The way the current implementation of the CU is made up has several glaring variances from the previously released info - in that there was one central item that I have identified has caused the majority of the imbalances and problems encountered with the CU.
Putting a 'level' system on top of a skill based system.
This was not in the original CU documentation released on 03/31/05, and data from public statements of sources inside the CU 'sandbox' scheme (without violating NDA) have confirmed that it was never discussed with them to the degree it was implemented.
Herein I will list the worst issues reported about the CU and show that they are all tied directly to the 'level system' implementation that was added to the functional design of the CU.
1. Crafter Death - Crafters are 1 shotted by every aggro mob on every starter planet. The fragility of crafter characters at 'combat level' 1 is extreme. Surveying alone is impossible since spawns will appear under vehicles in motion and mobs will kill crafters in less than 2 seconds.
The ability to at least run away has been removed - this makes crafters unable to function at a basic level.
The 'level' system has a damage multiplier. You will see this in further points. This damage multiplier makes anything higher level than you equivalent to instant death. Five levels above you will always kill you. Again, this point will be repeated.
Since crafters will not have any combat rating unless they become a hybrid and drop pure crafting, they will always take max damage.
Furthermore, every animal will use the damage multiplier against a base value. There is no such thing, therefore, as a 'safe' enemy for crafters.
This is the result of the 'level' system.
Before, each mob had different resists and damage ranges. They had a "threat" level, which was based on how high their offensive and defensive values were. Under the old system, that was the basis of the /con result.
This threat level has NO relationship to the current 'combat level' system, no matter what the devs claim in the HOC chat.
The threat level was an EVALUATION of an existing mob.
A 'combat level' is a MODIFICATION of a base value mob "angry bag" put into whatever 'skin' is appropriate, i.e, a level 34 dune lizard is the same as a level 34 peko peko.
The new COMBAT LEVEL defines the offensive and defensive values - not the other way around.
This is an important distinction, and is critical to understanding the conclusion about the combat level system and why it was added to the CU at such a late date.
2. XP gains and lack of same: A significant number of people are finding odd results from attacking mobs slightly below their level and higher - as in getting little to no XP. The response of the devs is to have people focus on just fighting even leveled mobs.
The real question is: Why was the XP variance put in the CU in the first place?
XP gains or rates of gains was NEVER addressed as a concern in the Combat Upgrade. It did not affect combat in any way, shape, or form in PVP, nor were there "problems" about the flavor of combat that were caused by XP being gained by anything you defeated.
It was never an issue at all.
However, in 'level' based systems, the paradigm is that LEVEL DETERMINES XP AT ALL TIMES.
In a skill based system, mobs are worth what they are worth - period.
The XP dilemma is a byproduct of the introduction of the level based combat overlay - and that is it.
It offers NO positive effects to the pace of combat, the usability and distinction of all combat professions, the tactical nature of combat - in fact, it hinders advancement. It does nothing that the CU was written to do - at all. It has no purpose.
It has nothing to do with lessening the effects of overpowered buffs and armor and does nothing to address ANY SINGLE ITEM mentioned in the CU Documentation.
It is, in fact, the unavoidable side effect of the use of the level system. It was NEVER a goal of the CU and is present ONLY because a level system was introduced.
The reason why it was is the kicker.
3. Certifications of weapons being based on level - Many people think that this was INTENDED. It was not.
This was a FIX put in to deal with the fact that the level system made xp vanish from 'low level' mobs for people grinding their 2nd elite combat prof. The 'level' system FORCED the removal of certs tied to skills. Else, a TKM attempting to grind pistols would never be able to do so as long as the level system was in place - he couldn't kill anything ever that gave him Pistol XP.
So they pulled pistols (and all other weapons) from skill boxes and tied them to 'combat levels' as a work around for this unplanned-for circumstance. They did this with all the weapons at first, then came back to address the idea of a TKM/Ranger using a beam rifle. So a very few 'iconic' weapons were tied to skill boxes.
This is a cheat.
The original design of the CU, again, had NOTHING in it about un-latching the weapons from skill boxes.
It was because - simply put - The CU Was Never To Be Level Based.
XP was therefore NEVER supposed To Be 'Gated' to mob level comparisons.
Crafters Were Never Supposed to be unable to walk outside.
Weapons Were Never to be "floating" - they were supposed to be ADDITIVE*
*(Commando/Rifleman was supposed to be able to use a beam weapon with a rifle special - ADDITIVE as in Ranged do ranged - melee does melee and the certs ADD)
So - if you've read this far - you're asking yourself "Why the hell did they put in the level system? What POSSIBLE use could it be?"
Mobs. Mobs, deadlines, and stats.
Converting all the existing mobs to be balanced before May 5th was impossible. The only explanation is that they imposed the level system on the mobs because a level system makes the generation of mobs EASY.
You have 2 types of mobs - Humanoid and Non-Humanoid.
You have 2 types of each of those - melee only, and ranged primary/melee secondary.
These make each mob into an "angry bag" that can have a skin thrown on it, and the level system DEFINES THE DAMAGE DONE AT ALL TIMES TO ANYONE.
Quick. Easy. Fast.
No coding 350 different 'species' each with different xp values, resists, and attack values (not to mention individual, named mobs). Just a bag with a level, attack subroutine, and a skin on it. Damage multipliers (remember those?) will automatically generate "challenge". Damage mitigation due to level differences will SIMULATE weakening defenses.
Bam. Done.
Quick. Easy. Fast.
And WORTHLESS.
That's what they did. That's the MAIN problem with the CU.
Take out the level system - leaving everything else in - and you have a viable product. You have crafters able to run away from things even without buffs and armor
You have people able to still use the weapons they expect to use.
And you won't encounter people UNABLE to progress in their profession.
You have to do one thing though - you have to work on mobs and MAKE THEM WORK RIGHT.
It takes time which they claim they don't have.
The Level system is like putting wallpaper over a broken window.
It's a cheap easy and BAD fix that made more problems than they understood.
Without it, the CU would work.
With it, SWG is dead.
Replying to the OP (staff):
I do appreciate the effort and trying to get some good answers out of them. They however pretty much dodged everything you asked with a fairly pc answer that has no real meaning. This is why I don't care for prewritten QA's that they can read over and answer however they want without worry of having to elaborate on whatever they say.
This Q&A was honestly pretty worthless, it doesn't say anything. Maybe its soothing the stockholders alittle but I don't see where it will have any value at all to a player. I want to see them nail down some hard facts to serious questions, and have to explain themselves, not yet another "feel good" Q & A that leaves them every opportunity to not answer the question.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Did you ever think that LA might actually have some responsibility for this instead of just continually pointing the finger at SOE? LA doesn't exactly have a perfect track record lately, the game company that at one time brought us games like Full Throttle and Sam & Max can't seem to come up with anything original anymore. The company should be renamed Star Wars Arts, because apparently thats all the can dream up anymore.
Your post is rather skewed. And really, give the icons a break, they are buttons, thats it, not a game stopping issue. And some of us actually PREFER them over that horridly bland interface with the stickmen.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Wow, people really dont like change do they.
So the game has been redesigned. Yes. That will happen in a market where there is a need to keep things viable. For those of you who dont know, WoW EQ2 and SWG are in the process of making it possible to play your character in either game. So that would be why it seems like we are playing a clone of these games.
At the end of the day, they are a business and need to make a profit. This will mean that things will change to things that we would rather not have. I dont doubt for a second that the powers that be of this game have not weighed up all of the possible outcomes. They are a million dollar corporation whose sole intention is to make a viable product which will in turn, make a profit. Trust me, they think these things through...ALOT!!
I have spent some time playing this new system. I think its not as bad as poeple think. I think what people are feeling is alot of the "in game ego" has been deminsihed because they are no longer "uber l33t". I hunted with a grp today and apart from going from nov scout to ranger 4444 in 4 hours, everyone in both the groups I participated in commented on how much fun it was. Personally, I think its a little more realistic now. Solo a what looks to be a 200 tonne lizard with a sythe isnt really viable. I mean, think about it. I dont recall Han Solo getting buffed and walking through 50 ST's and coming out of it unscathed. For those of you saying now its to hard to grind your jedi.....umm HELLO, its a jedi, they are being hunted by mandate of the Emperor...its not meant to be a walk in the park. Further more, this is meant to be set after the destruction of the Death Star......THERE WERE NO JEDI!! But they exist, and now they should be the elite of the elite. For only those who are willing to take the time and level their character up deserve this. Not those who grind and expect to do it in a day. Yes, I did just say I did ranger in four hours, but thats because I was getting 4x XP....and I was in a group of masters, but a jedi and ranger are slightly different.
The silliest complaint I have heard, has been about the icons. Whats so hard to figure out?? Hold your mouse over them and the explanation comes up. When we all started playing this life sucking game, we didnt know all of the icons then either...and they didnt make sense then too.
80% cancelled accounts......a little prone to exageration arent we. I still see plenty of people running around.
To sum up, THIS IS LIFE. We have Companies that do waht they want because why?? Because they can...its their product. We have complainers complaining about everything...all of the boards are a big gripe half the time. Seriously, suck it up and take it like a man/woman. Life aint fair and thats that. For me, the glass is always half full.
Heres a thought, are the ones who are complaing...are they the same ones selling credits and jedi accounts on Ebay??? I wonder...are they just upset cause their lively hood has been flushed?? FOr everyone else.....ITS JUST A GAME, go spend time with your family/loved ones/ friends. Remind them that you still exist and arent having your life ruled by A GAME.
Flame away......you know you want to.
I have to say, the answers given in this interview could well be the biggest load of crap i have ever read.
To say combat is now fast paced and exciting is a downright lie. Combat is slow, dull and predictable, and even a 12 year old could write a macro to perform all required combat actions at the correct time due to the new 'predictive' system. You know prior to combat starting exactly how much damage you will take in a given time and exactly how much you will deal (give or take a miss or 2), and as such will also know exactly when you will need to heal. It is a very poor combat system.
Second, the majority of people who are unhappy with the upgrade aren't unhappy that it is a major change after two years as stated. Its more due to the fact the swg dev team ignored all feedback and the vast majority of bug reports from those who beta tested it, who put in time to try and help make it fun. Then it was pushed to live full of bugs, unbalanced and only 25% playable.. as a jedi myself i simply cannot level in the new system and it has been 6 from going live where we have had no response from the dev team regarding the many game-breaking issues for jedi.
The ui is extremely horrible, and contrary to what was said in the interview, there is absolutely no technical reason as to why the monochrome icons had to be changed to full colour. They are neither intuitive or an improvement on the old ones. Yes there is a windup and cooldown phase as shown on the icons now, but because of the bright gaudy colours its practically impossible to tell what phase each one is at, they really need to allow an option to switch back the icons, and increase the contrast of the windup/cooldown cycles so you can actually see what is going on.
And to quote directly: "new UI look and feel is essential to achieving the immersive Star Wars-y combat everyone wants from Galaxies".
Please! The new ui looks more at home in some final fantasy cartoon than the star wars universe. People stated right from day 1 of the open beta that the icons were horrible and in no way looked 'starwarsy'. Again, this feedback was completely ignored by the dev team.
Crafting has also been dumbed down beyond belief.
And as for group play. Does that mean the end of bounty hunter missions on jedi? Because if i even considered grouping with friends for more than a couple of fights, you could bet i would have a whole army of bounty hunters decend onto me (i know its only supposed to be 5, but that is yet another thing broken, and there have been reports of 15 and more bh's taking a single jedi mission at a time).
The final statement is arrogance beyond belief. The only thing wrong was the screwup they made of the 2 server conversions? How about pushing the whole thing to live 2 weeks early filled with bugs and imbalances that has so far costs them many 1000's of accounts. So many that today John Smedley, the head honcho of SOE had to come and make a post to help quell the flames on the swg forums. Or how about that, due to not listening to the player base, they have sucked out 99% of all that was fun about the game? Or that the push to live was purely for marketing reasons to cash in on the forthcoming movie?
All i can say for sure, is if the massive negative feedback in all the press that the cu has had affects the movie audience figures, a certain Mr Lucas will ensure heads will roll, and personally i hope he does.
errrr, ummmmm. That was an april's fools joke.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
As a 2 year veteran player reading this, it's apparent that LucasArts is as much at fault over the changes as SoE is, and deserves equal blame.
CU destroyed the core functionality of the game, and replaced it with Everquest 2. We did not buy Everquest 2, nor any similar game. We bought, and played, Star Wars Galaxies. The game on the Live servers, obviously bug riddled and still unbalanced, has taken a turn for the worse, and if LucasArts is bound and determined to stand up for the CU, I can see their contempt for the subscribers is much the same as Sony Online's.
The anger and frustration level is so high among a large portion of the playerbase, it's being felt all over. Any continued spin, or continuing lies from SoE or LucasArts about how the player base "overwhelmingly supports" combat downgrade, will only serve as more egg on the faces of both companies as consumers realize the obvious and make sound choices to leave this game, as well as LucasArts & SoE without their subscriptions.
Let's face facts and show the CU for what it really is. It's an attempt to make SWG more dependant on groups and less flexable. Personally, I don't like to group unless I'm going after something hard like a NS elder or a Ancient Krayt Dragon. Sue me, that's just me. When I did group at those times, I was truly a blast, but it wasn't something I wanted to do on a daily basis. Basically, the system was flexable and allowed me to do what I wanted to.
Enter the CU. Now to do anything, I need to group up. Does LA or SOE have any idea how hard it is to get the right group together? Especially since I'm just a Novice Jedi. I don't dare get within 32m of my fellow guildmates or else I risk getting ganked by Bounty Hunters. Is this fun? I don't think so. I won't even go into the fact that I can now only fight for 45 seconds then have to wait for 15 minutes for my forcebar to recharge. I have patient friends, but not that patient.
The CU was the final straw for me. I'm very upset that I finally got to the point I always wanted only to be told by LA and SOE that all my 2 years of hard work was all for nothing. I'm not alone. On my server, my guild is easily the largest there (250 members). Of that membership almost half are gone because of the CU and almost half of the ones that are left have cancelled their accounts and are just waiting for them to run out.
That being said, there are good things about the CU. PVP, so I am told (novice Jedi, don't dare take the chance of dying) is much better under the new system. Too bad that the majority of players are PVE players.
According to this interview with Julio, the game is now supposed to be faster-paced, more star wars like, and decisions you make in combat are more important. When I first started testing CU on TC, I was thinking "Awesome, they're finally making the game worth playing!" But the problem is, CU did the exact opposite of what it was promised to do. Combat is boring, it's a matter of 'sit there and press the same button over and over again.' You make a different decision in combat, and it doesn't hurt or help, you're still going to get slaughtered by things 12 levels below you unless you're in a group. They changed the sound effects of weapons to sound like a video game, rather than the blaster sound effects from before that they had directly ripped from the movies. And I once watched two people duel for 3 hours straight before they gave up and called a draw: not exactly faster paced.
We never needed nor wanted such a blatant downgrade to the system, we didn't need the combat system dumbed-down like it is now. What we wanted and have been asking for since Galaxies was released was a balancing of the current professions, not destroying them competely and trying to make something useful out of the debris. Now the game has become so boring that I find myself playing EQ again just to pass the time until I can find a good RPG that SOE hasn't completely screwed over from over-patching. In the mean time, I'm one of hundreds who have cancelled my account, and am giving my character's items away to guild members. It's too boring now, nothing interesting ever happens. About the only thing they did right in this patch was make stormtroopers easier to kill, like in the movies, rather than have one stormtrooper become a sudden ace marksman and take a hundred blaster bolts in the chest before even grunting.
I'm glad someone finally listened to our cries, even if it took a major website, but thing is, it was from Lucas Arts, not SOE. SOE still doesn't seem to have customer service in mind...huh, go figure.
later
~Kat
COMING SOON TO A GALAXY NEAR YOU
SWG : TOOLBAR
From SOE and Lucasarts, the makers of SWG, comes TOOLBAR. TOOLBAR is the new exciting, fast paced MMO that is taking the gaming community by storm. Based off the popular and innovative SWG engine, TOOLBAR raises the BAR on sci-fi adventure in an online world populated with an ever-dwindling player base. Some of the games features include:
· An 18-block toolbar filled with obnoxiously colored icons that relate to absolutely nothing in the game. This toolbar is the main focal point of the game and is where the entire fast paced, exciting action will take place. I just sit there and stare at this toolbar waiting for my next move. If I stop looking at it Im lost as to what action is happening next and when it will fire. I literally cant take my eyes off of it, damn it! claims one satisfied beta tester.
· A confusing and disorienting lightshow looms just inches away from the main action of the toolbar! You will be dazzled by the easy to understand special effects as they guide your hand through the fast paced, exciting combat! Did I just hit my target? Did my dizzy stick? Why do white rings encircle my character? Was that really a nuclear blast as I mounted my swoop? Am I having a seizure? These questions and more will be racing through your mind as you try to grasp what exactly is happening! And for good measure, these light effects stay with your character for the rest the gaming experience!
· Realistic and authentic Star Wars sounds. The flaccid thud as your sword renders a Worrt in two! The generic whoosh of every firearm as the blaster bolts fly! Its like living in the movies (if you were deaf)!
· New and exciting weapons. Granted there are now only two damage types to choose from, but never mind that look at all the new and exciting weapons! Thrill as the Master Commando races into combat wielding his Long Vibro Axe or Razor Knucklers, two weapons synonymous with the profession!
· And for all you crafter/entertainer types, dont worry; you werent left out of the fun. Those professions were not removed from the game!!! Amazing!
The new game was best summed up by a SOE/LA spokesman, Basically what weve done here is taken the SWG interface and force-fed it EverQuest II, waited a few hours and used what came out the other end. What we were really striving for, and I believe we pulled off brilliantly, was to find a way to kick our loyal customer base in the teeth, but in a virtual way. Now that its so close to going live (bug-free I might add) and every single subscriber is shouting its praises from the rooftops I feel our job is over, and well done to boot. No need to look at the game forums with this baby, our polls show the game is rating a 5 on a scale of 5-4-1-3-2 with 5 being the best. Did that make sense? Good. Now if youll excuse me I have an extremely large check to cash.
SWG : TOOLBAR
Are you ready?
Coming to live servers 5/5 regardless of what you say
Brought to you by SOE and LA: Just give us the money
I am personally trying to enjoy the "CU", but I really miss the old SWG, I have a crafting dancer account that is totally worthless. I believe that her subscription runs out in the middle of May. I feel very bad they destroyed the game that I was very passionate about.
/salute SWG
To SOE and LA I hope you enjoy this post, it describes what you have done to SWG.
Are you threatening me Master Jedi??
I liked the analysis from handsnake.. I think its closer to the mark than not.
I've been with it since the beginning, and I think it will progressively get "fixed" going forward. But for the interrum its hard to want to play it, because your not sure what to do, or how to do it. Master TKMs dying from flocks of borgles just seems wrong. So I'm giving it a break for a while to see what fixes may come through. Most professions "specials" got completely removed and replaced with things that aren't similar (I'm a rifleman for instance).. I went from two versions of dizzy, two versions of stun, a strafing shot, two overpower shots, two head shot bleeders, two regular headshots.. down to about 5 buttons of questionable use.
Though my personal opinion is they consolidated the source with EQ2, probably to cut down on programmers. They saw the popularity of WoW, and used it as an excuse to change swg and get the codebase in line with EQ2 at the same time. I'm sure they'll save a bundle.
This was nothing but fluff and spin.
1) It's not just that crafting got harder it that when crafters go to thier harvestors they get icapped and killed by every NPC out there. Not much defense for a level 1 crafter. Try getting a few players top "watch your back" as you go harvesting. You can only get levels by combat so it sucks to be me I guess.
2) Yes, he was absolutley right, you can solo some of the game - you won't get expereince points for it because anything you take on at or near your level will clean your clock . And if you do manage to kill the MOB it takes you a very long time with very little reward in the way of expereince points. IN order to move forward in the game you MUST group. Not a problem if you have several hours to spare but if you only have 90 minutes, forget about it.
3) The CU was pushed out to maximize the connection to Revenge of the Sith release. The devs have learned that a lot of people will pay $15 a month to beta test this product.
4) The developers must have an unnatural love of thier NPCs and MOBs. They have to feel pain anytime one of them is taken down. The idea of this rebalence seems to be make the MOBs tougher and the players weaker.
5) Finally there is a rampant , reoccuring thread that this was all done to ready SWG for XBOX , PLAYSTATION and other consoles. It's the only thing that makes sense in what they did.
Get a group, go out hunting, have fun?
Not likely, I'm afraid. The new UI I can deal with, the particle effects I can stomach to a point but combat sickens me. Get a group, ANY group and you'll get one shotted by the things that I used to hunt. Go hunt Greak Dunke Kimogilas at CL 150, I had a full set of padded armor, CoB active and an extra def boost from docs and specials (sword flurry) and I have 199 base melee def and I still get one shotted. Then, after I die, the GDK disengages combat and walks away. My team's autoattack disengages so they auto-peace and if they dare attack it again another person will die. By the time I get revived the GDK has fully healed and we're back to square one and my armor's condition is rapidly decreasing.
Some creatures have been "balanced" to refit the system. Krayts that I see are CL 80-81. Pfft! The DWB can be taken by 2 able people. The geo cave, you cant get through the first door without getting one-shotted by a kwi. These are the "balance" issues that should have been fixed in, what, closed beta? No, waut, no closed beta... open beta? no, wait, most were lower lvl people trying to grind the new system and dont forget that playerbase feedback is worthless these days, no matter what has been said otherwise.
I hear crafters crying out about the new CL system and the jedi crying out about about visibility issues and I am neither of these yet I feel their pain and hope they also get the fixes they deserve. Meanwhile, SOE and LA is saying they basically achieved their goal when most of the playerbase is saying otherwise. i'm all for a challenge here and there but to make it so I HAVE to group to do missions I would normally get ALONE... well, I think not. That's BS. What is given to me on the terms I should be able to solo without needing to heal after every kill. Creatures should not heal so fast (faster than a PC) and have you seen the sheer spawn numbers? Dozens for a grouped mission! PER SPAWN! All those creatures at the mission PLUS all the random spawns that have the same number of critters around it. If they're aggro you've got a few dozen CL 50 to worry about that give you 1 xp for all your trouble and then you still have to do your mission.
I'm not sure what game these people are playing but this is rediculous