Thats all this game is, they've reused everything from mechanics like PQ's and RvR all the way down to exact model's, skin and terrain textures, and animations. Why would anybody waste a dime on this crap, it has the same developers who got fired from EA Mythic for gods sake, are you really going to buy a game from the developers of Warhammer Online?? Look at the post-release patching of WAR, they didnt add a god damn thing worth note for over a year, and the stability of the client remains questionable at best, the same client that Rift will use.
Save your money for something better people, don't encourage this kind of blatantly lazy rehashing.
Wait................... I though that this game was made by fired SoE developers after they released the worse expansion for EQ2 which almost killed the game (I am talking about RoK)
After all Hartsman was the producer of RoK, he left the company few months after the release of the Xpac
They also got Adam Gershowitz, producer of WAR (ex-Mythic).
Dream team reversed.
Eheh.......... probably I should't have so high expectation for this game then................silly me
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The first thing I said when I first logged in was "Man, this is Warhammer all over again!" From the sounds, the environment to the way my character moved. Then I did my first rift and thought, "This is just like a public quest." I even watched a podcast and saw one of the Warhammer developers ....
Uh dude that really is irrelevant unless of course you feel that a developer should never work for another company and his career should be over at your discretion based solely on if "you" liked the game he worked on or not.
While I actually agree that it feels like Warhammer 2 with a more stable client I think your use of "it has some of the same devs" excuse a bit well.. retarded.
Mainly because developers don't own the engine they work on, the corporate entity does so Rift would of purchased the rights to the engine from EA, has nothing whatsoever to do with whose working on it.
Want to play with the engine being used for starwars the old republic? You can go buy a licence here and look you don't even have to go work for bioware to do it. http://www.heroengine.com/
/point made
But I do agree, similar mechanics to warhammer, if you didn't like warhammer you likely won't like rift unless of course your main gripes were stability.
Think you're overlooking the main point that is underneath all this and it's this:
There is an ongoing trend of similar MMORPG's being created, few risks are being taken. Mainly in part to WoW's success, from a strictly monetary viewpoint investors want a piece of that pie.
Leonardo Divinci was quoted once saying:
"Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else."
I'm waiting for a company to realize that it's time to do something else.
HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERY GAME BEING LIKE ANOTHER GAME. There is always a point of reference, when war came out, "War is almost exactly like wow" "War isn't enough like DAOC", now they release the beta for this "Rift is just like war" "Rift is just like wow" "Rift is like every other game in existance". When any game comes out, if it borrows any ideas from another game, people point the finger and say, you copied this game, you copied that game. Who cares. Play it. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. Elitsts will always complain, fanboys will always swoon. There isn't usually a middle ground on forums.
Just the stigma of the mmo genre and the scrutiny of its fans.. This is the only genre of gaming that i have ever been apart of where every game is cursed for having ANY similarities to any other game on the market..
When Halo came out and console guys praised it for being new and refreshing, PC gamers just looked at it as just another futuristic shooter (by 2001, the FPS scene on PC had already reached its golden age Quake series, Half Life, medal of Honor of course before CoD and especially before the MW2 craze). No one complained.. When Street Fighter EX released, you didnt really hear complaints about it being like Tekken or a copy of (although the game was awful in its own right). Forza? Wait, wasn't that almost exactly like Sony's Grand Turismo (which first released back in 97)? I seen hardly any complaints about Warcraft (RTS) borrowing RTS elements from Command and Conquer and Dune II (westwood Studios)..
Hell we can even take it further.. But i'm sure you get the point..
When a genre reaches a certain milestone in its development, those unique changes become staples. People will ALWAYS look for them in games of that genre. All these DoTA games we are seeing popping up like League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth are ALL borrowing stuff from the original DoTA mod, yet people cling to them like flies on shit.
We will always see games using what has worked in the industry for so long. Companies can take risks but risks can always end up a horrid disaster. With a genre like this where alot of companies expect their players to buy a box and continue to give them money each month, you have to minimize risks. As much as people cry for it, they do not want immediate forceful change. I think its correct for these games to follow the success formula and add some flavor to the pool.
Slowly ease us into the next era.. Hopefully GW2 will help push us over the edge and usher in a new era in mmo's..
Just the stigma of the mmo genre and the scrutiny of its fans.. This is the only genre of gaming that i have ever been apart of where every game is cursed for having ANY similarities to any other game on the market..
This. It's sheer idiocy, I agree.
As if other, twilight zone, rules apply to the MMO genre, where for every other genre of gaming or entertainment it doesn't.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Now a days there are bascally 2 mmorpg family lines: either its a copy of daoc style, or UO style. Get used to it, Because this is how it'll probally stay since that what is currently selling to the masses, Only way I can see it change is if wow starts losing massive subs, which I don't see how, considering all the fools that fall for its carrot-on-a-stick endgame that has no real purpose, you can't even use the raid gear for anything else other than higher raids, you don't need the gear to farm, and you can't pvp in it because of resilence.
I find the rift idea being a pve thing to be something neat, and being able to pick 3 classes and arrange them in 4 diff ways is also something diffrent, other than these 2 factors its bascally another standart mmorpg, but here's the kicked
Trion is delivering EXACTLY what they promised, I find it stupid how people are so shocked when even the company said exactly what the game was gonna be. Unlike Aion where they made a big deal about flying yet you get in game and maybe 5% of the games area's actually has real flying. The rest is gliding. I kinda respect Trion since they didn't lie thru their teeth about what their title is going to offer.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Yeah I agree with that but I am not able to master it.
I genuinelly give everyone a chance and generally feel enthusiastic of what people do.
As they say: hope for the best, expect the worst. A rule that never let me down. Being genuinely enthusiastic is a good thing, until it dives into the realm of unrealistic expectations, that's what should be prevented.
But of course that s only true for new developers.
SoE, and Cryptic are already on my black list and Funcom is borderline
Yeah, FC fucked up AoC's launch, but hey, Ragnar Tornquist, The Secret World... i don't care if it'll be released half finished, only for the setting and Tornquist I'd give it a try
Trion did an honest job, it's just that it wasn't good enough so I am not black listing them yet.
Hmm, it's a bit early to drown the baby in the bathwater so to speak, don't you think? You don't know whether it'll grow up to be a Damian.
Or to translate: there's still a beta 3 event and follow ups, and we don't really know how the finished product will play: they've one major thing going for them, and that's that Rift is already more polished and playable than the majority of other MMORPG's were at this stage the last five years.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you're going to try and copy WAR, WoW, and other MMOs out there, you had darn well better make sure you can one-up them. Rift failed in their attempt.
According to you. According to others, they succeeded in making a good MMORPG (dont know if they ever said that they wanted to be a copy of WAR or WoW, somehow I doubt it). Now who's right, eh? Besides, that wasn't a real answer to my post, in which I said that it doesn't matter if it's really different, being different or innovative isn't a magical solution, because for the most part it's just talk: a lot of people say they want something new or different, but in the end they don't really want to play something that's really different. There's a lot of different MMORPG's out there currently - see my former list - that really very few people are playing, and I'm willing to bet that the majority of those complainers for something new or different have never player those and even now choose to ignore them.
I hate to break it to you but this game is nowhere near as good as WoW, WAR, or other popular MMOs out there. Sure, there will be some people who play it but it's not going to be a major player, it's just not that good a game. As far as your list goes, there's plenty of WoW-like knockoffs that suck too, so what? The point is, Rift tried to copy the dragon and got burned. It's just not a very good game. You might disagree and that's fine, I'm only stating my opinion...which happens to be shared by many others. My guess is that Rift will sell a lot of copies and then die off like FF did. Once the novelty wears off, people will be left with just a mediocre game.
Gotta love it when people toss around their opinions as if they were facts.
In my opinion (Which applies to me but may not apply to others as I am not an all-knowing and all-seeing prophet of video game success) Rift is better than WAR (If war were any good I would still be playing it). I Beta tested WAR and played from release for almost a year.
Rift runs better, looks better, has better pve, has better crafting and it hasnt been released yet. War is still trying to balance classes, still has poor pve and crafting and still has a horrible endgame.
I Really liked t1 and t2 in WAR but IMO rift, from what I have seen in beta1 and beta 2 is a better game.
IS Rift a wow clone is the question at hand - all mmo's have similarities - I didnt really get a WAR feeling while playing (Or a wow feeling for that matter)
Yeah it has quests, yeah it sorta-kinda has a system a bit like public quests.
A lot of the complaints to me are like a person who goes to a new car lot, test drives a car and immediately gets mad that it isnt a submarine (or an airplane). All mmos have certain things in common - quests, ui, xp, classes, etc
Eheh.......... probably I should't have so high expectation for this game then................silly me
As a rule, you should always keep your expectations realistic.
I'd say that this should be the very first skill that MMO gamers learn, but only few manage to master.
Yeah I agree with that but I am not able to master it.
I genuinelly give everyone a chance and generally feel enthusiastic of what people do.
But of course that s only true for new developers.
SoE, and Cryptic are already on my black list and Funcom is borderline
Trion did an honest job, it's just that it wasn't good enough so I am not black listing them yet.
I used to be in the same expectation boat, and was really blown away at the idiocy design of STO, but with Rift, dont even pay attention to their own press or promo videos with puppet gamers paying homage, really. Dont consider the Trion CEO's comments about being "next-generation" as literal; it's not.
Consider this, though. Rift might be a bit more fun, more complete and polished than that which is currently available, particularly at launch.
Rift is a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one; accept it and see if what is merged is done well enough to capture and maintain your interest. Lets see how this all irons-out.
No please, I'd like to know what it is about Rift that you think "next generation" and awesome. Please share with us. I don't care what other people are saying, I'd like to hear from you specifically. Or did you even play beta?
Sigh. Here it goes, sandbox lover, hopefully this helps your 'amnesia': the soul system is a nice twist on the class+talent tree setup and offers more flexibility than in many other MMO games,
The soul system can be nice if they make changes. As it is now, there's no reason to multi-soul at end game because the best talents are all at the top and bottom of the trees. I already said this was a nice feature or did you skip over that in my previous posts? It's interesting but not next generation.
the rifts at the peak of their action can be pretty awesome and have more dynamics in them than the Public Quests in WAR,
That's just flat out not true. More dynamics that PQs? C'mon, that's just silly. Rifts are the same thing over and over. At least in WAR there are many different PQs. Nothing new or next generation here.
if they can manage to let it go all out as at the end of this weekend, then it should be a welcome change from the questing, I hunted rifts for a while, and it sure was fun.
I thought they were boring and avoided them after the first few. Too many people, no loot drops from them, and just a waste of time. Nothing next generation here.
Graphics, not bad at all, not the best I've seen, but from the current MMORPG's I'd personally only rate AoC's and FFXIV's better, and Aion's character models, not Aion's environment though.
Graphics are not bad but certainly not next generation or awe inspiring.
Next generation? Don't think so, but the way people meant this, I doubt any MMORPG has been 'next gen' or revolutionary, maybe only UO and EQ when they came out and made a distinct difference from the MMO games that came before. But great fun, sure, that it was.
Well that's my point, Rift claims to be next generation but it's not, it's all recycled MMO content. As far as being fun, I found it to be one of the most boring MMOs I've ever played, and yes that includes theme parks I've played. If it's your thing that's cool but it's not better than WoW, WAR, or other good MMOs on the market and it's certainly NOT next generation. Not even close.
If you like the game then by all means buy it. You shouldn't get all riled up with these reviews and take it personally, everyone has their likes and dislikes. I found Rift to be one of the most boring games I've ever played but some people like it. Such is life.
Ok, before I got and tear apart this asinine post, let me preface it by saying I have seen a lot more of the game than you have. Due to the NDA I can not say much more than that but I have seen a whole heck of a lot more than almost anyone who posts on this board. Now, let me commence with sitting you straight.
1. The Soul System: "As it is now, there's no reason to multi-soul at end game because the best talents are all at the top and bottom of the trees"
You could not be more wrong. Currently the best end game melee DPS spec is a combination of three souls with points in each. The best Warrior tanking spec is three souls with points in each. The best healing spec is a primarily two Soul spec. Now that changes up a bit if you want to add some utility into the build but nonetheless most of the best specs are multi-Soul specs. Rarely do you see many "pure" specs with all points in one Soul. There are a few running around but that is the exception rather than the rule.
2. Rifts vs. PQs: "That's just flat out not true. More dynamics that PQs? C'mon, that's just silly. Rifts are the same thing over and over. At least in WAR there are many different PQs. Nothing new or next generation here."
I am not sure you know what "dynamic" means. Here, let's define it:
"Of a dynamic nature; variable or constantly changing nature"
WAR's PQs were the complete opposite of dynamic. They spawned at the same place every time. They happened in the same sequence every time. They contained the same mobs and bosses every time. They were completely static. Nothing ever changed about them. Ever.
By contrast, Rifts spawn randomly in the zone, they spawn at different times and with different strengths. They contain different mobs and bosses that can do different things. Sometimes they send out invasions, sometimes they do not. Sometimes there is a General, sometimes there is not. They can vary widely in their position, size, mob makeup and objectives.
In addition, there are Rift types that have not even been shown the beta yet. There are Rifts that have a storyline attached to them, there are Rifts that build "villages" or encampments. There are actual group Rifts and raid Rifts in which the bosses are not tank and spank but full-on Raid bosses similar to a WoW Raid boss. Simply put, beta players have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
I won't argue graphics because that is just a matter of opinion, though I do think Rift graphics are amazing. Especially the lighting effects. As far as "Next Gen" is concerned, I believe the complete Rift system would be considered "Next Gen" though I submit that the term is pretty nebulous and hard to define no matter what.
This game probably has just as much of a love hate relationship as FFXIV did when it was in beta. It's like a never ending spiral.
Rift isn't a bad game at all. It is pretty polished and plays nicely. If you like the current market of games then Rift will be right up your alley because it fits right in. It builds a little upon what has been done before and adds its own little signature in the form of Rifts.
If you are looking for a game that tries to break boundries and forge into new lands to push the genre ahead, then this is not the game you are looking for.
This game probably has just as much of a love hate relationship as FFXIV did when it was in beta. It's like a never ending spiral.
Rift isn't a bad game at all. It is pretty polished and plays nicely. If you like the current market of games then Rift will be right up your alley because it fits right in. It builds a little upon what has been done before and adds its own little signature in the form of Rifts.
If you are looking for a game that tries to break boundries and forge into new lands to push the genre ahead, then this is not the game you are looking for.
From what I read a new team with a new IP delivers a quite polished MMO, respect for this. I guess making a quick buck would be if they use a big name for their game, like Warhammer, Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and such.
This game probably has just as much of a love hate relationship as FFXIV did when it was in beta. It's like a never ending spiral.
Rift isn't a bad game at all. It is pretty polished and plays nicely. If you like the current market of games then Rift will be right up your alley because it fits right in. It builds a little upon what has been done before and adds its own little signature in the form of Rifts.
If you are looking for a game that tries to break boundries and forge into new lands to push the genre ahead, then this is not the game you are looking for.
Yes but for a very different reason.
FF XIV were released a long time before it was ready, it is in fact not ready even now.
Rift on the other hand is more or less ready, the problem here is that people assumed that this game would be a different innovative game. Part of the fault is Trions, claiming the game as next generation is an outright lie. But most of the fault is the people who assumed it would be different, even though anyone who really checked up the game knew that most of it is very close to Wow, LOTRO and EQ2.
There were really good reasons to complain on FF XIV, even the fans know that SE released the game long before it was ready.
The reasons to complain on Rift is more not as good. Sure, many people (actually me included) think the game is too close to Wow and other current games but we will have to take the game for what it is.
It is pretty stable enough (even though some people still have problem with performance) and well made. I think it is an excellent secondary game to something more different, like Guildwars 2. I am not sure if I will play it or not, but it wont be as main game.
But there is a big difference between personal preferences and actual faults with the game. Everyone have the right to their own opinion and point out what they don't like but claiming a game sucks just because you don't like it isn't fair. There are many games that are good which I still don't like for difference reasons.
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
From what I read a new team with a new IP delivers a quite polished MMO, respect for this.
I guess making a quick buck would be if they use a big name for their game, like Warhammer, Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and such.
I don't think Mythic or Turbine tried to make a quick buck. Both companies actually tried their best to make a great game, Mythic were actually sure that WAR would be larger than Wow.
Turbines failure was that they never really got the Tolkien fans to start playing their games, I think it is partly because the game just is a little bit of the books and partly because they never truly made the world come alive (I blame the mechanics and holy triad here, healers and tanks are just so wrong in the middle earth).
WAR aimed on the wrong people and you can feel that they have no clue whatsoever for the Warhammer setting. Instead they tried to make a PvP version of Wow with their best ideas from DaoC included. That didn't work out. You do need to know and love an IP to make a good MMO in it. And I am willing to bet money that no one of them ever played the tabletops or RPGs, possible exception would be a little Blood bowl.
And I don't think Bioware is making TOR either to make a quick buck. They are trying to make an online version of the single player games they really likes. That might work or not....
STO however is just as you say. No one would seriously try to make a really good MMO in just 2 years, that just isn't possible. They could have spent twice the time to make a good game but they decided for the quick buck instead.
But I don't believe Trion is trying to make a quick buck either. The game is good enough, it is just that it is far too overhyped.
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
13 actually. But that is true.
Still, it does what it should pretty well. As long as there are alternatives (and GW2, TOR and TERA seems to do things differently) I don't mind a solid traditional game.
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
I can see your point somewhat, but 95-99% of all MMO gamers are still playing these kind of games, they're not playing these other really different MMORPG's that are also out there.
This leads to assume that MMO gamers aren't as bored and tired with them as they say they are, if they're continuing to play these kind of games they've been playing for over 10 years now, instead of the MMO games that are different.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
The problem is your assumption we've all been playing these games for 10 years. All of us haven't been
I started with WoW 4 years ago. Im terribly bored with it. Ive tried Aion, Warhammer, and Aoc but none have come even close to delivering. So your damn right im still looking for a classic replacement for WoW.
Not everybody in the genre started with EQ1 or whatever game you guys were playing 10 years ago.
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
The problem is your assumption we've all been playing these games for 10 years. All of us haven't been
I started with WoW 4 years ago. Im terribly bored with it. Ive tried Aion, Warhammer, and Aoc but none have come even close to delivering. So your damn right im still looking for a classic replacement for WoW.
Not everybody in the genre started with EQ1 or whatever game you guys were playing 10 years ago.
Bingo!! i wish people read this post and understand that world doesn't revolve around them.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
You are a condescending fool. You don't deserve for this crap to work right with an attitude like that.
This is precisely why I'm growing weary of playing MMOs. It's full of you people.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Originally posted by Loke666 Originally posted by Herodes From what I read a new team with a new IP delivers a quite polished MMO, respect for this. I guess making a quick buck would be if they use a big name for their game, like Warhammer, Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and such.
I don't think Mythic or Turbine tried to make a quick buck. Both companies actually tried their best to make a great game, Mythic were actually sure that WAR would be larger than Wow. Turbines failure was that they never really got the Tolkien fans to start playing their games, I think it is partly because the game just is a little bit of the books and partly because they never truly made the world come alive (I blame the mechanics and holy triad here, healers and tanks are just so wrong in the middle earth). WAR aimed on the wrong people and you can feel that they have no clue whatsoever for the Warhammer setting. Instead they tried to make a PvP version of Wow with their best ideas from DaoC included. That didn't work out. You do need to know and love an IP to make a good MMO in it. And I am willing to bet money that no one of them ever played the tabletops or RPGs, possible exception would be a little Blood bowl. And I don't think Bioware is making TOR either to make a quick buck. They are trying to make an online version of the single player games they really likes. That might work or not.... STO however is just as you say. No one would seriously try to make a really good MMO in just 2 years, that just isn't possible. They could have spent twice the time to make a good game but they decided for the quick buck instead. But I don't believe Trion is trying to make a quick buck either. The game is good enough, it is just that it is far too overhyped. Heh yes, my examples were actually a litte bit trollish, sorry for this (though as for Lotro, Turbine´s child after Asherons Call 2, but that is stuff for another thread).
It is just that someone wrote he thinks about putting Trion on a Blacklist already. IMO Trion make 3 MMOs with Rift as their flagship as a traditional game, because they try to go the safe route. Then there is End of Nations, which is by no means a WoW clone, so it is an even more risky project. Okay, now I forgot their third game. But if they are able to deliver these games and make them good, then it is surely a win for the MMO genre.
Comments
Eheh.......... probably I should't have so high expectation for this game then................silly me
As a rule, you should always keep your expectations realistic.
I'd say that this should be the very first skill that MMO gamers learn, but only few manage to master.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Uh dude that really is irrelevant unless of course you feel that a developer should never work for another company and his career should be over at your discretion based solely on if "you" liked the game he worked on or not.
While I actually agree that it feels like Warhammer 2 with a more stable client I think your use of "it has some of the same devs" excuse a bit well.. retarded.
Mainly because developers don't own the engine they work on, the corporate entity does so Rift would of purchased the rights to the engine from EA, has nothing whatsoever to do with whose working on it.
Want to play with the engine being used for starwars the old republic? You can go buy a licence here and look you don't even have to go work for bioware to do it. http://www.heroengine.com/
/point made
But I do agree, similar mechanics to warhammer, if you didn't like warhammer you likely won't like rift unless of course your main gripes were stability.
Think you're overlooking the main point that is underneath all this and it's this:
There is an ongoing trend of similar MMORPG's being created, few risks are being taken. Mainly in part to WoW's success, from a strictly monetary viewpoint investors want a piece of that pie.
Leonardo Divinci was quoted once saying:
"Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else."
I'm waiting for a company to realize that it's time to do something else.
Just the stigma of the mmo genre and the scrutiny of its fans.. This is the only genre of gaming that i have ever been apart of where every game is cursed for having ANY similarities to any other game on the market..
When Halo came out and console guys praised it for being new and refreshing, PC gamers just looked at it as just another futuristic shooter (by 2001, the FPS scene on PC had already reached its golden age Quake series, Half Life, medal of Honor of course before CoD and especially before the MW2 craze). No one complained.. When Street Fighter EX released, you didnt really hear complaints about it being like Tekken or a copy of (although the game was awful in its own right). Forza? Wait, wasn't that almost exactly like Sony's Grand Turismo (which first released back in 97)? I seen hardly any complaints about Warcraft (RTS) borrowing RTS elements from Command and Conquer and Dune II (westwood Studios)..
Hell we can even take it further.. But i'm sure you get the point..
When a genre reaches a certain milestone in its development, those unique changes become staples. People will ALWAYS look for them in games of that genre. All these DoTA games we are seeing popping up like League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth are ALL borrowing stuff from the original DoTA mod, yet people cling to them like flies on shit.
We will always see games using what has worked in the industry for so long. Companies can take risks but risks can always end up a horrid disaster. With a genre like this where alot of companies expect their players to buy a box and continue to give them money each month, you have to minimize risks. As much as people cry for it, they do not want immediate forceful change. I think its correct for these games to follow the success formula and add some flavor to the pool.
Slowly ease us into the next era.. Hopefully GW2 will help push us over the edge and usher in a new era in mmo's..
This. It's sheer idiocy, I agree.
As if other, twilight zone, rules apply to the MMO genre, where for every other genre of gaming or entertainment it doesn't.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah I agree with that but I am not able to master it.
I genuinelly give everyone a chance and generally feel enthusiastic of what people do.
But of course that s only true for new developers.
SoE, and Cryptic are already on my black list and Funcom is borderline
Trion did an honest job, it's just that it wasn't good enough so I am not black listing them yet.
Now a days there are bascally 2 mmorpg family lines: either its a copy of daoc style, or UO style. Get used to it, Because this is how it'll probally stay since that what is currently selling to the masses, Only way I can see it change is if wow starts losing massive subs, which I don't see how, considering all the fools that fall for its carrot-on-a-stick endgame that has no real purpose, you can't even use the raid gear for anything else other than higher raids, you don't need the gear to farm, and you can't pvp in it because of resilence.
I find the rift idea being a pve thing to be something neat, and being able to pick 3 classes and arrange them in 4 diff ways is also something diffrent, other than these 2 factors its bascally another standart mmorpg, but here's the kicked
Trion is delivering EXACTLY what they promised, I find it stupid how people are so shocked when even the company said exactly what the game was gonna be. Unlike Aion where they made a big deal about flying yet you get in game and maybe 5% of the games area's actually has real flying. The rest is gliding. I kinda respect Trion since they didn't lie thru their teeth about what their title is going to offer.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Hmm, it's a bit early to drown the baby in the bathwater so to speak, don't you think? You don't know whether it'll grow up to be a Damian.
Or to translate: there's still a beta 3 event and follow ups, and we don't really know how the finished product will play: they've one major thing going for them, and that's that Rift is already more polished and playable than the majority of other MMORPG's were at this stage the last five years.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Gotta love it when people toss around their opinions as if they were facts.
In my opinion (Which applies to me but may not apply to others as I am not an all-knowing and all-seeing prophet of video game success) Rift is better than WAR (If war were any good I would still be playing it). I Beta tested WAR and played from release for almost a year.
Rift runs better, looks better, has better pve, has better crafting and it hasnt been released yet. War is still trying to balance classes, still has poor pve and crafting and still has a horrible endgame.
I Really liked t1 and t2 in WAR but IMO rift, from what I have seen in beta1 and beta 2 is a better game.
IS Rift a wow clone is the question at hand - all mmo's have similarities - I didnt really get a WAR feeling while playing (Or a wow feeling for that matter)
Yeah it has quests, yeah it sorta-kinda has a system a bit like public quests.
A lot of the complaints to me are like a person who goes to a new car lot, test drives a car and immediately gets mad that it isnt a submarine (or an airplane). All mmos have certain things in common - quests, ui, xp, classes, etc
If it's a lot of the same people, did they at least do a better job on the characters this time? WAR seemed to champion the idea that:
"Western gamers want to play ugly characters."
I used to be in the same expectation boat, and was really blown away at the idiocy design of STO, but with Rift, dont even pay attention to their own press or promo videos with puppet gamers paying homage, really. Dont consider the Trion CEO's comments about being "next-generation" as literal; it's not.
Consider this, though. Rift might be a bit more fun, more complete and polished than that which is currently available, particularly at launch.
Rift is a mixture, a merger or "amalgamation" of basic features from other mainstream mmo's, packaged into one; accept it and see if what is merged is done well enough to capture and maintain your interest. Lets see how this all irons-out.
Ok, before I got and tear apart this asinine post, let me preface it by saying I have seen a lot more of the game than you have. Due to the NDA I can not say much more than that but I have seen a whole heck of a lot more than almost anyone who posts on this board. Now, let me commence with sitting you straight.
1. The Soul System: "As it is now, there's no reason to multi-soul at end game because the best talents are all at the top and bottom of the trees"
You could not be more wrong. Currently the best end game melee DPS spec is a combination of three souls with points in each. The best Warrior tanking spec is three souls with points in each. The best healing spec is a primarily two Soul spec. Now that changes up a bit if you want to add some utility into the build but nonetheless most of the best specs are multi-Soul specs. Rarely do you see many "pure" specs with all points in one Soul. There are a few running around but that is the exception rather than the rule.
2. Rifts vs. PQs: "That's just flat out not true. More dynamics that PQs? C'mon, that's just silly. Rifts are the same thing over and over. At least in WAR there are many different PQs. Nothing new or next generation here."
I am not sure you know what "dynamic" means. Here, let's define it:
"Of a dynamic nature; variable or constantly changing nature"
WAR's PQs were the complete opposite of dynamic. They spawned at the same place every time. They happened in the same sequence every time. They contained the same mobs and bosses every time. They were completely static. Nothing ever changed about them. Ever.
By contrast, Rifts spawn randomly in the zone, they spawn at different times and with different strengths. They contain different mobs and bosses that can do different things. Sometimes they send out invasions, sometimes they do not. Sometimes there is a General, sometimes there is not. They can vary widely in their position, size, mob makeup and objectives.
In addition, there are Rift types that have not even been shown the beta yet. There are Rifts that have a storyline attached to them, there are Rifts that build "villages" or encampments. There are actual group Rifts and raid Rifts in which the bosses are not tank and spank but full-on Raid bosses similar to a WoW Raid boss. Simply put, beta players have only seen the tip of the iceberg.
I won't argue graphics because that is just a matter of opinion, though I do think Rift graphics are amazing. Especially the lighting effects. As far as "Next Gen" is concerned, I believe the complete Rift system would be considered "Next Gen" though I submit that the term is pretty nebulous and hard to define no matter what.
This game probably has just as much of a love hate relationship as FFXIV did when it was in beta. It's like a never ending spiral.
Rift isn't a bad game at all. It is pretty polished and plays nicely. If you like the current market of games then Rift will be right up your alley because it fits right in. It builds a little upon what has been done before and adds its own little signature in the form of Rifts.
If you are looking for a game that tries to break boundries and forge into new lands to push the genre ahead, then this is not the game you are looking for.
Some of yall just need to sit back and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8zRiaLOkfc&feature=related
It's just not that serious..
Hey!
Quit stealing my thoughts!?!!
*Puts on Tin-foil hat*
From what I read a new team with a new IP delivers a quite polished MMO, respect for this.
I guess making a quick buck would be if they use a big name for their game, like Warhammer, Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and such.
Yes but for a very different reason.
FF XIV were released a long time before it was ready, it is in fact not ready even now.
Rift on the other hand is more or less ready, the problem here is that people assumed that this game would be a different innovative game. Part of the fault is Trions, claiming the game as next generation is an outright lie. But most of the fault is the people who assumed it would be different, even though anyone who really checked up the game knew that most of it is very close to Wow, LOTRO and EQ2.
There were really good reasons to complain on FF XIV, even the fans know that SE released the game long before it was ready.
The reasons to complain on Rift is more not as good. Sure, many people (actually me included) think the game is too close to Wow and other current games but we will have to take the game for what it is.
It is pretty stable enough (even though some people still have problem with performance) and well made. I think it is an excellent secondary game to something more different, like Guildwars 2. I am not sure if I will play it or not, but it wont be as main game.
But there is a big difference between personal preferences and actual faults with the game. Everyone have the right to their own opinion and point out what they don't like but claiming a game sucks just because you don't like it isn't fair. There are many games that are good which I still don't like for difference reasons.
Frankly i dont see what everyone sees in this game. It's a mix of WOW and WAR nothing original, we all been playing these kind of game for over 10 years now.
I don't think Mythic or Turbine tried to make a quick buck. Both companies actually tried their best to make a great game, Mythic were actually sure that WAR would be larger than Wow.
Turbines failure was that they never really got the Tolkien fans to start playing their games, I think it is partly because the game just is a little bit of the books and partly because they never truly made the world come alive (I blame the mechanics and holy triad here, healers and tanks are just so wrong in the middle earth).
WAR aimed on the wrong people and you can feel that they have no clue whatsoever for the Warhammer setting. Instead they tried to make a PvP version of Wow with their best ideas from DaoC included. That didn't work out. You do need to know and love an IP to make a good MMO in it. And I am willing to bet money that no one of them ever played the tabletops or RPGs, possible exception would be a little Blood bowl.
And I don't think Bioware is making TOR either to make a quick buck. They are trying to make an online version of the single player games they really likes. That might work or not....
STO however is just as you say. No one would seriously try to make a really good MMO in just 2 years, that just isn't possible. They could have spent twice the time to make a good game but they decided for the quick buck instead.
But I don't believe Trion is trying to make a quick buck either. The game is good enough, it is just that it is far too overhyped.
13 actually. But that is true.
Still, it does what it should pretty well. As long as there are alternatives (and GW2, TOR and TERA seems to do things differently) I don't mind a solid traditional game.
I can see your point somewhat, but 95-99% of all MMO gamers are still playing these kind of games, they're not playing these other really different MMORPG's that are also out there.
This leads to assume that MMO gamers aren't as bored and tired with them as they say they are, if they're continuing to play these kind of games they've been playing for over 10 years now, instead of the MMO games that are different.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The problem is your assumption we've all been playing these games for 10 years. All of us haven't been
I started with WoW 4 years ago. Im terribly bored with it. Ive tried Aion, Warhammer, and Aoc but none have come even close to delivering. So your damn right im still looking for a classic replacement for WoW.
Not everybody in the genre started with EQ1 or whatever game you guys were playing 10 years ago.
Bingo!! i wish people read this post and understand that world doesn't revolve around them.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
You are a condescending fool. You don't deserve for this crap to work right with an attitude like that.
This is precisely why I'm growing weary of playing MMOs. It's full of you people.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Turbines failure was that they never really got the Tolkien fans to start playing their games, I think it is partly because the game just is a little bit of the books and partly because they never truly made the world come alive (I blame the mechanics and holy triad here, healers and tanks are just so wrong in the middle earth).
WAR aimed on the wrong people and you can feel that they have no clue whatsoever for the Warhammer setting. Instead they tried to make a PvP version of Wow with their best ideas from DaoC included. That didn't work out. You do need to know and love an IP to make a good MMO in it. And I am willing to bet money that no one of them ever played the tabletops or RPGs, possible exception would be a little Blood bowl.
And I don't think Bioware is making TOR either to make a quick buck. They are trying to make an online version of the single player games they really likes. That might work or not....
STO however is just as you say. No one would seriously try to make a really good MMO in just 2 years, that just isn't possible. They could have spent twice the time to make a good game but they decided for the quick buck instead.
But I don't believe Trion is trying to make a quick buck either. The game is good enough, it is just that it is far too overhyped.
Heh yes, my examples were actually a litte bit trollish, sorry for this (though as for Lotro, Turbine´s child after Asherons Call 2, but that is stuff for another thread).
It is just that someone wrote he thinks about putting Trion on a Blacklist already.
IMO Trion make 3 MMOs with Rift as their flagship as a traditional game, because they try to go the safe route. Then there is End of Nations, which is by no means a WoW clone, so it is an even more risky project.
Okay, now I forgot their third game. But if they are able to deliver these games and make them good, then it is surely a win for the MMO genre.