Ill tell you right now that I have not had any fun since the CU was rolled out. Not dismissing anyones arguement, Ill say this. That if you like PVP then you will most likely like the CU. There are those of us who werent in the game for the COMBAT..... LIKE DOCTORS... who are now forced to fight. If I had want to fight in SWG I would have been a combat medic. ANd since I dont want to fight what do I do?? I cant get to my harvestors.. I get killed.. So I am supposed to get a group together to follow me around to check my harvestors.. Rediculous. I have heard alot of poeple say they enjoy the cu but I ve seen more people leave my guild and my server because of it. Ive had to say goodbye to a lot of friends.
As to your article, I felt it was a just another attempt to tell people how good the cu is.. I wonder if you are listening to our comments like SOE does. Are you going to start deleting our replies.?? And one of the biggest points I would like to point out that you missed is the fact that most of us dont appreciate having to PAY TO PLAY A BETA LEVEL GAME!!!!! Unbelievable...
I certainly wont. Just in my family alone SOE has lost 14 accounts between myself and my cousins.. Weve all gone to WOW, and where it lacks in some of the elements the SOE had to offer it makes up for by not having to CONVINCE its subscribers how great it is.
I loved SWG.. LOVED that is, it WAS a great game..
Im fairly new th this website but i just felt that i needed to speak
I loved soloing i did this becuase my guild is Uk and im US so our times differed, i would go down the the Nightsisters and die but would give a good fight and a week before the CU went live i found the best part of the game for me. the Death Wach Bunker, i would go down with 5 jedi, some tanks, and some healers and have a blast that any solo player couldnt get and was on my way to getting a jetpack. but the CU changed the game and, for lack of a better description sucks.....
well heres my second reason for posting, there where large scale protests and petitions, i know ones servers Planet Corellia crashed and i have screenies of the protests on my server:
Nice screen shots.. And they say that everyone loved it.. HAHAHA Has anyone else read the forum post on SWG from smedly.. If you havent go check it out. I think he puts it best when he says that SOE knew that they would allienate some of their core base but that they wouldnt have gone forward with the CU unless they thought it was for the good of the game. Im paraphrasing. It just shows that SOE had no intention of listening to the wishes of it players in the first place. SO I ask why all the games about wanting our feedback when your dont plan to listen anyways.
The best thing I am trying to do right now is try to not let what SOE's CU and their attitude towards their customers deter me from ever enjoying anything Star Wars ever again. It wasn't just the fact that I purchased a game to play one month before it became a whole new one (now that most games are online- not my cup of tea, but it still gave one the abiltiy to solo). It was the fact that with the CU, my characters could not leave the city without a near death experience. I did not buy the game to play it with other people. I don't want to "group" to get XP. I shouldn't have to. I purchased a game that SAID it gave the customer the ability to solo in the world of Star Wars. The box did not say, "For you and a group of strangers to enjoy the world of Star Wars". It is not only this, but when poeple were posting complaints on the SOE forum, they were being deleted. And then the forum had to "go down for mantinence". Yeah right! I'm sorry, but I read the article where SOE basically said they new that the CU wasn't ready but they wanted to get it out by E3. Not cool, Goodbye SWG hello World of Warcraft!!!
Whereas a review is always a subjective matter, I agree that the article does not accurately depict the motives for the massive protest against the CU and that it does not touch upon some of the more severe bugs and extreme player setbacks.
People who played a long time to get to a certain stage in the game, suddenly found themselves being almost helpless on their own. They noticed some of the basics of their professions altered. They discovered certain items they spent much time gathering -weapons and armour- could not be used anymore. They saw several issues, though loudly voiced, remain unadressed...
Promoting grouping is one thing, but there were many ways to have done just that while simply adding to the content, instead of changing it. Besides, as it stood a few weeks ago when I left, many servers just weren't fit for group playing. Entire planets with only a handful of actual players... Hardly ideal for staging a group hunt.
Even if those people cancel their subscription -as I did-, they will not get the money back they invested in the game pre-CU. Because that's what long-term MMORPG playing is for a lot of people, an investment in long lasting entertainment, where time and effort are rewarded through achieving a certain status within the game world.
These aren't just "growing pains" or people having difficulties with change, those are valid reasons for protest. This is, regardless whether you like or hate it, a rip-off for a lot of customers.
AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
Good review overall. don't realy have time to get too deep on this but Il'l drop my opinion as asked.
Love star wars, HATED the "I wanna be original" old combat system. It didnt take long at all to get to the top and it quickly got old having to rely on players so much. I read about the new CU and reinstalled the game with an open mind and high hopes and to my surprise I was NOT disappointed AT ALL. I love the new icons, the action timers, the lvl system (which you forgot to mention also determines the weapons you can wield) No more walking thru the game with the same cheesed gun that you got your hands on early on.
Its more simple, quick, and group friendly.
Finaly starting to feel like Star Wars instead of Craft Wars.
Sorry if you dissagree, however you wanna look at it, thier getting my subscription fee now.
As i must pay SOE money for a game i dont like (and beta-test it) for 2 more weeks and Clint Nielson can't wait to hear about my experience in the game ....so here it is:
I played the CU the first days it went live,i was excited and full of hope.(yes,call me an idiot..)
There were (are?) massive bugs and bizarre "balancing-problems"(I soloed krayts,pre-CU we needed a group...the group was needed for smaller things,like lvl 82 giant worrts)
As there were and are nearly no announcements or information from SOE ....should i believe that it works like intended? Anybody knows what works like it should?I guess no,SOE is testing and balancing it on live-servers.
Nevertheless i and my friends gave it a try(things will get better over the years...)
I dont like the lvl-system that force you to fight against a special lvl...i like to examine an opponent,take a look at my equipment and judge for my (-our)self if i risk the fight.This lvl-system here is a kiddies game in my eyes.Next point is,for all of our group the combat-speed felt ....erm...somehow wrong.We were able to kill,but it was no fun.
Soloing .....I nearly never did it before CU,but i liked to stroll around with a bit sightseeing and fighting every now and then.Totally Senseless now,however,i may be wrong,never dared to ask for a group just to stroll around with me an hour or two...
All in all this is a new game and i treated it so and i wont play it . In my country we have a saying(hope you understand the meaning)..neither is it fish,nor flesh.Getting exp shouldn t be the only point in a game,that will not make fun in the long term,and i dont understand there's so much talking about how easy or hard that is.So,you have the exp you need,now it is fun?Harvest hide for a month or two?
I don't want to talk much about my weaponsmith-alt as Clint Nielson doesnt seem to know much or care about crafting,i only want to say that i didn't craft because of credits(you earn more and also more easy credits with a fighter)but because of the challenge.All gone....no motivation...
In my oppinion the borked old system(which definately needed changes) provided more long-time-fun than this new,everybody and everything equalizing system.
To have long-time-fun i need a long-time aim,(i don t want to become jedi and i am only partly interested in pvp) that could have been in the old system to become a great crafter,to be able to solo a legendary opponent,to get the best equipment,to be a great miner.......
A nearly only fight based game can be fun,i like WOW,but this new galaxies seems to me like a horrible and grotesque clone now.
Originally posted by Bonez005 Good review overall. don't realy have time to get too deep on this but Il'l drop my opinion as asked.
Love star wars, HATED the "I wanna be original" old combat system. It didnt take long at all to get to the top and it quickly got old having to rely on players so much. I read about the new CU and reinstalled the game with an open mind and high hopes and to my surprise I was NOT disappointed AT ALL. I love the new icons, the action timers, the lvl system (which you forgot to mention also determines the weapons you can wield) No more walking thru the game with the same cheesed gun that you got your hands on early on. Its more simple, quick, and group friendly. Finaly starting to feel like Star Wars instead of Craft Wars. Sorry if you dissagree, however you wanna look at it, thier getting my subscription fee now.
so you didnt like relying on crafters, entertainers, docs? you do realize you still rely on crafters and now also rely on 4-8 other people everytime you hunt.
and now also rely on 4-8 other people everytime you hunt.
A myth.
You can hunt alone perfectly well. You just have to learn the new system - it offers you all the abilities to fight well, even against groups.
Hunting in a group makes it EASIER and gaining XP is FASTER ... thats all. Its not like SWG is a race, you know.
You were able to master your combat professions in 1-2 weeks before CU ... and even if its 3-4 weeks NOW fighting solo .. thats still a small amount of time to master a template compared to many other MMORPGs. And some of us have been playing SWG for about 2 years now ... what difference do 2 weeks make in that context ?
I was trying to figure out some words to give a fair review of the Combat Upgrade like the original MMORPG post was.
Instead I will just let it out cold and simple. Combat Upgrade is not my problem with SWG. We have played for months after months waiting for fixes to work and content to be added.
SOE/Lucas Arts have again delivered 30% of what is promissed and they still expect us to be all smiley about it.
You order a large pizza and get a pie, what do you do? You either complain and wait to get the large pizza, or you walk out the door.
I walked out. Got tired of waiting for the full product.
For you that stayed, keep paying your $15 a month for a slice....good luck and have fun, that is all that matters.
The article seems a little biased towards the negative, the main one being that SOE took a radically different way of PC progression and reverted it back to a tried and tested way. I get the feeling it is following the general popular view.
Personally, I've been playing (not intensely,as its not my way) for nearly 18 months, and pre-CU I was still popping meatlumps/kooks outside Coronet. This was sustaining me enough to continue, in between lvl15 missions, and I had reached 1012BH, Novice Carbineer, 2231Ranger from Master Marksman/Scout. I always thought I'd reached 3/4 the way to the top level with these stats, but I was still amusing myself with low level mobs. I could not get anywhere near missions on Dantooine and similar. You can see it was very slow going. You'll say why didn't you get buffed up and group. I say I didn't like the idea of waiting 30mins for buffs before finding a group, and thought the idea of the solo group was rediculous, even though they were very effective. I just occupied myself with soloing very slowly.
Post CU (baring in mind I'm on Chimaera that has had a x4XP period) in one week (equate to 4 weeks) after respeccing and find that I was classed as lvl40 (a lot lower than I thought I'd be) I have hunted on Lok, Talus, Rori, Dantooine, and Yavin4 all without the need for 3rd party buffs, and have now got to 3343Carbineer, 4443Ranger, being lvl65 and really enjoying it. The game has a new lease of life for me.
All this will blow over, and the game will continue from strength to strength.
All I have to whinge about are the whingers. I read the forums to find information and help, not complaints.
Ya know what, screw it Im gonna reactivate my account and give it a try. New doesnt always equal bad. How many everquesters said they'd never play WoW?
First and foremost, this was far from an "in-depth" look at the Combat Upgrade. It focused on some of the things that are good about it, and ignored some of the most pressing issues that were behind the massive cancellations. I submit it also contained a few smug remarks that MMORPG.com should've paid attention to before posting this, as it runs the risk of insulting many people. The editors words will be in quotations:
"You can also kiss the combat queue good bye and say hello to that corner of your screen. Good news? Not really. Instead of loading up attack patterns in your queue, you will now find all of your time consumed watching the new timers that specials run on. Since different specials run on different timers, you wont be able to spam attacks to be optimally effective. Sneakily enough, the developers of SWG snuck in a mini-queue where you can select one extra attack in advance which is highlighted by a yellow bracket. Without the queue combat FEELS frenzied, if only marginally more than how it was before."
Yet we must also remember that the emphasis of the combat upgrade was to make the game more "Starwarsy." If it does not add to a Star Wars experience, it is a failure on the part of the combat upgrade. Tell me, how does adding horse pictures add to a more Star wars experience? Then there is the issue of state effects, rings around lairs, doctors being able to magically heal, etc. How is this more starwarsy? Gone are the realistic sounds of blasters and weapons, and we now have something totally different that sounds like it came from Azeroth or Norath (the areas of WoW and EQ2). From a graphical standpoint, the game is not given a more star wars experience.
"Unfortunately going with the flow has stolen some of SWGs individuality."
In regards to the HAM system, sure there could have been problems with it. If you remember, part of the talk about the Combat upgrade was to make it so that you had to drain all 3 pools before you could incap someone. This would require strategy. Such an innovative concept would've maintained SWG's individaulity, and this was the plan they were going with for quite some time. This was dropped, and there was no explanation as to WHY this was dropped. The goal of the Combat Upgrade again was to make Star Wars unique. On this note, the HAM system failed miserably as well, as it is now just like every other game.
"Essentially what happens behind the screen is that two Jawas take your number and match it up with the number of the creature you are fighting. Who ever has the highest number wins, and if the numbers are the same or VERY similar, the fight is determined by little factors, like specials, buffs, armor and weapons. If you catch the feeling of the previous statement, youll understand that level is the bantha burger and everything else is the condiments that go on top. Perhaps the old system let you and I get away with too much, but the new system has a VERY restrictive feel to it."
The editor is certainly right on this one. There is a restrictive feel to it. There is no tactical strategy involved. Simply find an equal or lower level, and you will win. Anything one or two levels above you cannot defeat because of damage multipliers. This was not mentinoed in the editorial, and this is one of the largest criticisms of the combat upgrade. Simply put, you take more damage from a creature that is one level above you, even if you are 500 times larger than the creature. Meanwhile, those creatures 500 times larger than you, if they have a slightly lower level, you can pwn em easy. No longer is their individuality amongst the creatures you fight. The game loses more individuality and innovation, one of the goals of the CURB. Whereas before, you had to have some tactic involved in your fight, now there is less, and the battle is decided really before anything even starts. This was excactly what they stated would not be done.
"Indeed, the Combat Upgrade was designed to bring back the grouping experience found in the early days of SWG, and this is without a doubt where the new system shines brighter than a stormtroopers breast plate. As players band together, their levels are temporarily increased to that of the highest person in the group. While it does not compensate for poor stats, it does at least give lower level players a fighting chance. "
Why that level increase matters is because now the damage multipliers will be less. That is absolutely unrealistic and not tactical at all, that a creature will hit you for less simply because someone is grouped with you. Even if the person is not involved in the fight, but somewhere around you, you can now beat a creature. Disband, and watch him one hit one kill you. That takes any strategy out of the game, as it's just see how many FOTM's you can stack in a group. A simple reduction of armor and buffs and the original all pools to incap system could've fixed this. Soloing could still be done, but it would take forever, and groups would have to be tactical in draining all 3 stat pools. The days of simply spamming headshot3 or headhit3 would've been done for. Boom no more spammers and group tactics are important, right in the old system. Lower level fighters before had a chance even without 90% comp because a creature did this much damage no matter what. Now that's not the case. Hence a crafter cannot leave the city, because a noobie kreetle can one shot him. They can't even run from a fight.
"Group experience is calculated in such a way that if you land a couple of blow you get full experience for the kill. What exactly is full experience? Well, if you get 1000 experience points for killing a white creature solo, then when grouped you will get 1000 experience points for killing a white creature. The only difference is that white creature grouped is equivalent to the level of the highest member of the group, making it one mean bugger. So why group at all? The answer is simple. With a decent group, experience gains are MUCH faster than solo, and have a nice group bonus to boot."
Of course this doesn't involve player development. It's like the FRS gank squads with Jedis from before. You will see max groups walking around all getting 2 or 3 hits involved, just for their xp. Again, no real strategy.
"Even entertainers are feeling the hefty effects of the new system. Instead of mind buffs, they now provide a singular inspiration buff which slightly increases experience and faction gains. You might enjoy the fact that you dont need to group with the entertainer to experience this new type of buff, however some entertainers are unhappy about this new method that is difficult to regulate in such a way that yields profit."
Replace some with the overwhelming majority and that might be an accurate statement. While doctors might have some limited use in the field, in the new SWG, entertainers, ID's, etc, have no purpose whatsoever. BF and wounds don't happen as much, and the inspiration buff is not as effective as it's touted. Furthermore, there is no gaurentee renumeration would occur for services provided, as you no longer have to group to get the buff. That was the way before that both sides held up their end of the bargain. You paid, you get buffed. You don't pay, you don't get buffed. For a proffession that already relied on generosity (you will not meet anyone who got rich being an entertainer) this destroys them. Also once again, they can no longer leave the city or else they will get one shot incapped by things 100 times smaller than them.
"If you like weapons youre in luck. Of course if you plan on actually doing anything other than crafting and role playing in SWG, than you definitely have a thing for the hardware."
This is of course a slap in the face to a very core constituient of players, those who roleplay, and those who craft. In a player based economy, crafting makes the world go round. This is no longer the case, as there is no incentive to become a good crafter. Before the 12 pter's spent all their money to become a 12 pt crafter, and then their products were innovative and individual. Now the 12pt'er is barely better than the person who just mastered. The time and energy spent to becoming the best is no longer worth it. Hardwork and innovation are put on an equal playing field with laziness and sloth.
While not a hardcore RP'er, this is an online role playing game, so therefore role playing should be encouraged. The simple fact is these kind of things are directly counterproductive to roleplaying.
"Right now SWG is going through a hefty conversion process with bugs galore. But then again, what would SWG be without its bugs? Dont answer that. For a limited time players also get the benefits of being able to respec their characters every twelve hours, and double XP in one of the following weeks. Now is definitely a good time to get to find out what type of character you like to play. Granted that is if you can stand not being able to find items on the bazaar because of a nasty bug that keeps pre-CU items from showing their stats until they are replaced back on the vendor. But day by day a new patch is released and the issues are being resolved."
And here is another crux of the issue. The person who gave hard work and innovation, discpline, and training into his profession is no longer any better than the l337 speaker looking for a FOTM. When I played for 14 months, I changed professions twice on each toon. (From rifleman/cm to pikeman/cm on Ulot and from swordman/rifleman to swordman/ranger on Dajoka.) There is a joy in having those professions, and sticking with them for good and bad, and you learn the tactics of each profession. Those are now gone. Any game needs a strong veteran community to help the newbies out. That is no longer the case, as there is no longer a difference between a veteran and a noob, at least right now. Everyone starts from scratch. It essentially robs peter to pay paul. of course, he who robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul. noobs will love it, because they can essentailly leetch off the more experienced players, and don't have to learn anything on their own. Just find a lvl 80 to group with, and it becomes cake. You don't have to do much, just land the occasional shot in.
There is also the point that certain professions simply no longer matter. You talk about how you can do all these great things as a BH/SL, but that's the point, the CURB was meant to get rid of this FOTM thing, while there were at least multiple FOTM's before, if people really wanna do much, they are almost forced to go BH. Rather than certain professions being good in certain circumstances, you have just as much imbalance as before. MBH/MSL is the new "I win" button.
The editor does also not touch upon the most important part of why people left, the way SOE treated it's playerbase. Fadeus loves to point out how flawed polling is, but I'm sure he knows that if the numbers said something different, you can gaurentee SOE would parrot those numbers. It's simple when you poll, find the poll that reflects your numbers. If SOE had one, you can gaurentee they would pull it out. Yet when poll after poll shows at best mixed results, that tells you something about the overall playerbase. Polling is flawed of course, but that works both ways.
There was also the fact that the shoe dropped, and SOE admitted to forcing the CU live so people could find the problems. That's called BETA testing. Yet people were forced to pay to beta test something. Furthermore, when they reported problems, they were silenced. Garva's evil iron fist was swung, and Tiggs made such arrogant statements that will live in infamy (only 50 people on these forums oppose the combat upgrade.) Had they not asked player opinion, we would've been mad for different reasons, but we can't say they were lying or betraying anyone. When they asked for player opinion, and the result was overwhelming (develop this more) they then flat out ignored that opinion. So now they must pay the consequence for lying to their playerbase. Allowing people who love the CU the right to insult and flame people who disagree with it, but then when someone defends themselves, Garva deletes their post and bans their account, of course eventually you will get people to like the CU. Nobody is allowed to dissent, so of course only the positive voices will be heard. And on the SOE forums, that is essentially what you have now. Such snowjobs ignoring any real criticism of the CU and only criticizing ancilliary points such as what the editor did serve no function to this game.
Iceman00's above post explains very well what some of the things that were lacking in this written article. Asking the hard questions and reading between the lines to actually understand why something is happening the way it is, is good reporting. The article was thorough but it glossed over and ignored many important aspects as to "why".
I thought at first that this article was perhaps in cooporation with SOE, but I no longer think that and am convinced it was completely independent although "soft". If you want to see a "true review" that completely insulted the intelligence of the readers, SWG players, and respectablity of a reviewing website, then you should check out the IGN tripe that was recently "published" about the CU.
well I am one of the players who did solo kil everything, I killed jedi kights as a meele stacker and just recently made jedi so i absolutly hate the cu. I sold my 2 noob jedi accounts and vowed never to buy a sony product again, the cu completely screwed the vet players over people had rare and uber weopons that became useless ,crafters resources went into real bad conversions , swg is lost all uniqueness, no longer fun to even log in any more and soe will lose 5 accounts from me. Before cu I thought swg was the best game ever, I had 5 accounts !! in the good ole days I didnt mind havin to get doc buffs u just needed an alt or knew where to look! Plain and simple the dumbed down swg u play today is not my swg its some horrid ugly eq2hybrid
Originally posted by legacyguy Excellent post, Iceman00. Iceman00's above post explains very well what some of the things that were lacking in this written article. Asking the hard questions and reading between the lines to actually understand why something is happening the way it is, is good reporting. The article was thorough but it glossed over and ignored many important aspects as to "why". I thought at first that this article was perhaps in cooporation with SOE, but I no longer think that and am convinced it was completely independent although "soft". If you want to see a "true review" that completely insulted the intelligence of the readers, SWG players, and respectablity of a reviewing website, then you should check out the IGN tripe that was recently "published" about the CU. http://pc.ign.com/articles/611/611270p1.html?fromint=1
Thanks for the vote of confidence legacy. Yes the IGN peice was again one of those ignoring the negatives and everyone just holding hands smiling. Their previous interview (conducted by someone other than the article writer I believe), landed some very hard questions at SOE, and while he favored some parts of the CU, on others he delivered some hardballs, and Julio at LucasArts and someone else at SWG really had no clue how to answer, so they resorted to imagining certain problems (i.e. the idea a pure crafter used to walk around the NS stronghold and be able to tank an elder in his 90% comp.). You can tell which one was an avid gamer, and which one was just trying to put out good press.
Its quite obvious that many of these gaming sites are financially supported by SOE. The IGN article is case in point. I even think that many of the writers of these positive articles are SOE employees. It's overwhelmingly obvious that the player base is against the CU.
I personally am not able to comment due to a technical problem with the launchpad. I played the game for 1-1/2 years with my current system and configuration. I reactivated my account to try out the new CU; but could not get past the update/download process which seems to be problematic now. After weeks of email correspondance, I still can't log on to try it out.
The funny thing is that many of the players that hate the CU are still playing!! This is because they are addicted to the virtual world. If they could only overcome this addiction for a week and all cancel their accounts they would have SOE by the balls. It happened with The Matrix Online, they introduced a huge nerf to gaining experience, a huge player base cancelled and wallah the nerf was un-nerfed. This is America and everything is driven by the all-mightly dollar; grab em by the dollar and their hearts and minds will follow.
"Tell me, how does adding horse pictures add to a more Star wars experience?"
The horse pictures have been changed to Taun-Tauns, but if you read my article you could see that was also a gripe of mine.
"Then there is the issue of state effects, rings around lairs"
I agree that particle effects are over the top, although I cut that from my article because it ran past my allotment.
"doctors being able to magically heal"
Doctors use bacta now, which I find to be more star-warsy. How they are able to heal without medical supplies does warrant explanation, which I agree with. But ultimately I feel it was a good choice. As a doctor meds always filled up my inventory, not to mention there was a lot of times where I was missing certain meds. I believe the changes have made the doctor experience more enjoyable.
"Gone are the realistic sounds of blasters and weapons"
That sounds like a comment I made during beta. All of the sound effects for weapons were removed from beta, and the only thing people could hear was blaster bolts hitting their targets. Many people assumed these were new sound effects, when in fact they were not. Before theCU went live the sound effects were added back in. Many weapons have their own distinctive sounds to them and in my humble opinion they all sound like variations of the Star Wars blasters.
"In regards to the HAM system, sure there could have been problems with it. If you remember, part of the talk about the Combat upgrade was to make it so that you had to drain all 3 pools before you could incap someone. This would require strategy. Such an innovative concept would've maintained SWG's individaulity, and this was the plan they were going with for quite some time. This was dropped, and there was no explanation as to WHY this was dropped. The goal of the Combat Upgrade again was to make Star Wars unique. On this note, the HAM system failed miserably as well, as it is now just like every other game."
I personally feel the current system works well. The old system had a fundamental flaw where healing could be pulled from the mind pool. That originally made it so professions that specialized on the mind attacks would have an advantage. They eliminated this problem by introducing the 'uber' buffs, but ultimately negated any penalty cost for using specials or healing and introduced spamming. It my opinion, with each subsequent patch they took away from the original grouping experience that was so central to the game when it first launched.
It is possible that waiting for all three pools to drain could have worked with the system. Of course that change might have made it impossible for some profession that cannot effectively target certain pools to have a fair chance, thus leading to what I believe would have been another massive profession restructing. So my question is, why build off a complicated, flawed system when you can just redesign the whole system up from scratch, start with something simple and go from there? Its the difference between building on an old cracked foundation and a new one.
The editor is certainly right on this one. There is a restrictive feel to it. There is no tactical strategy involved. Simply find an equal or lower level, and you will win. Anything one or two levels above you cannot defeat because of damage multipliers.
"This was not mentinoed in the editorial, and this is one of the largest criticisms of the combat upgrade. Simply put, you take more damage from a creature that is one level above you, even if you are 500 times larger than the creature. Meanwhile, those creatures 500 times larger than you, if they have a slightly lower level, you can pwn em easy. No longer is their individuality amongst the creatures you fight. The game loses more individuality and innovation, one of the goals of the CURB. Whereas before, you had to have some tactic involved in your fight, now there is less, and the battle is decided really before anything even starts. This was excactly what they stated would not be done. "
There is only so much I can say to indicated the restrictiveness of the system. I did spell it out in more detail when I first wrote the article, but in turn it ended up sounding redundant with a lot of technical data that 99% of the readers would not appreciated. I believe saying the system is restrictive sufficed for my purpose.
I disagree with your assement on tactics, however. I find that applying states is crucial to survival for the soloer. Before, the CU I hunted ten hours straight because I was afraid that my leveling would be incredibly slow once the CU hit. Most of the time I spammed just one attack, occassionally a knock down. However it wasn't crucial that I should do so. I was soloing five red mobs at a time and essentially all I had to do was spam my best attack and I would still survive with most of my health intact.
In the new system it is much clear cut on what you should fight, but if you've played the CU for any amount of time you might realize that a blue con mob can still obliverate your health if you are not using some strategy. As a BH I use a combination of blinds, knockdowns, dizzys and other effects in my arsenal to minimize the amount of damage I receive, not to mention having to pop stims when the time arises to keep alive. Similarly crowd control professions, which are not great at tanking have a number of rooting attacks which they will need to keep the enemy at bay so they can effectively solo them without getting obliverated. I find that the game now requires more strategy than it did before the CU.
"Why that level increase matters is because now the damage multipliers will be less. That is absolutely unrealistic and not tactical at all,"
It does not count for your total health, or your modifiers. All it does it keep you from getting instant-killed. If you've played the system for any amount of time you'll see that a level 10 person grouping with a level 80 still cannot damage much, and cannot take hits. Maybe its not realistic, but it works suprisingly well in application.
"Hence a crafter cannot leave the city, because a noobie kreetle can one shot him. They can't even run from a fight."
This isn't any different than how the game was when it launched. There was no uber armor or buffs to protect crafters who ran out in the middle of Lok to check harvesters, and yet they still did it. If I may remind you that crafters still have the options of:
a) Having a ranger applying camo (creating profession interdependancy) b) Grouping with a level 80 character for the damage modifiers and then going off and doing their own thing - no one said they had to stay close to you. c) Picking up a combat profession - there is enough skill points to be a master crafter and a master combatant
This is a classic example of players getting comfortable with a certain method and grumbling when they are forced to figure out new ways to play.
"Of course this doesn't involve player development. It's like the FRS gank squads with Jedis from before. You will see max groups walking around all getting 2 or 3 hits involved, just for their xp. Again, no real strategy."
That hasn't been my experience at all. When I've gone out on missions with a large group we get a TON of spawns from lairs. Most fights I've been in have had many, many creatures. I've seen people jump in the group thinking they can just get experience by sitting in the back and popping off a few shots, only to get aggroed and killed because they didn't know what they were doing, nor did they know how to properly utilize their profession. If anything I believe that if everyone is doing their part and using their specific abilities, then combat goes rather smoothly and that takes coordination and tactics.
"Replace some with the overwhelming majority and that might be an accurate statement. While doctors might have some limited use in the field, in the new SWG, entertainers, ID's, etc, have no purpose whatsoever. "
Need I remind that IDs did not want stat migration. I played an ID as my first profession and I watch their boards closely. Entertainers did get the shaft. I stated that. You're preaching to the choir.
"This is of course a slap in the face to a very core constituient of players, those who roleplay, and those who craft."
You're taking insult where no insult was intended. I meant unless you've never picked up a gun before, chances are you're going to like new guns.
"There is also the point that certain professions simply no longer matter. "
I disagree. My experience is that profession now have unique roles in combat. As a squad leader I provide damage modifiers. Creatures go down faster and our tanks have more health at the end of a battle. One of my specials paints a target on a creature which makes a good firing focus for the groups, and helps prevent mistargeting (which incidentally seems to kill a lot of people in groups). I know some profession (BH / TKA) are good for kinetic tanking and having them up in front taking the blows is great. Other profession like Pistoleer and Smugglers have specials which root the targets. Very useful when agros are out of control (which happens a lot with all the spawns a large group gets).
"The editor does also not touch upon the most important part of why people left, the way SOE treated it's playerbase. "
Which really doesn't have anything to do with the combat upgrade and how it plays. If it bothers you how SOE runs their business, then why has anyone played their games for so long? SOE has always struggled with community relations. What has changed now that suddenly made the players feel so different? The game was pushed live too early full of bugs. Many of their publishes introduced new bugs. Their community relations guys have had their fair share of incredulous statements. They ban and delete posts, but they've always done that. I find it amusing that some players act as if SOE suddenly changed into this monstrosity over night. They've always been this way. To me there is no point in dredging up this again. Everyone knows already. What is important to me is if the CU is fun. I reported it how I saw. I had fun. I'm not affiliate with SOE in anyway, I'm just saying it as how I see it.
- m o n t h i g o s -
My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMORPG.com
First off I hate the CU, but I still play Galaxies because I enjoy the game (and the CU didnt effect Space so I can spend my time there).
Who ever wrote this is very much intitled to their opinion and tho they are few, there are people out there that like this. However you are hard pressed to go in game and find people who like it. Last night I joined a guild that lost 50 people from the CU, and out of the current 70 people in it, 30 or better hardly play and are considering quiting. My friends list is empty, when it use to always be full... I mean there is a LOT of hate for the CU. So tho you are intitled to your opinion... it is not a very popular one with most SWG players right now.
The CU is just as flawed and un-balanced then the old system. The problems just arent as apparent yet. I still know people with "uber" templets, and "uber" unbalanced weapons that totally own in PVP. These things were suppose to die with the CU, but they didnt. Topped with cheap magic style effects, and horrid icons this game has taken a turn for the worse. Anyone who can sit there and say with a strait face the CU has made this a better Star Wars experience... dosnt know jack about Star Wars. I feel more like I am playing Ever Quest... hell Ultima Online feels more like Star Wars right now then Galaxies does.
But what gets me mad above all is SOEs compleat lack of communication and its massive amounts of lies. When the CU was in beta, and there was nothing but bad feedback SOE compleatly lied and said there was a lot of possitive feedback. I mean tho the poll on the boards was very inconclusive... SOE still claimed it showed good feedback for the CU durring the April HoC Dev chat, when a look at the poll that day showed 91% of people totally hated the CU. If SOE didnt lie about the state of things, then perhaps people could have taken it better. Even now SOE has said nothing about bugs they are working on, and the future of things. All they are syaing is, its staying, deal with it.
This is a good look at the CU from one perspective. The author forgot to include a few things like how the devs said the CU will bring back the star wars feel. IMHO they did not when in the movies or books did it take a huge group to take down 1 or even a few things (jedi not included). He also forgot how they screwed the jedi into the ground. He mentioned how tough it is to solo but he forgot to mention it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to solo at high levels even blues can take out a Level 80. They turned a game that did have problems (problems that SOE CREATED grouping was more fun on Launch then it does now). They screwed Jedi's (which some people say is not a bad thing) and they forced a playstyle on thier community and I mean FORCED that is you have to group to even do anything at high levels.
As far as I am concerned the 2 things that mainly made me cancel all 4 of my accounts was turning a Skill based Virtual World into a Level based Quest WoW/EQ2 in SW Universe and the icons. It did not feel like Star Wars anymore I felt like I was playing a EQ game that happened to be set in the SW Universe. SOE did was what most people was afraid they would make a EQ in Space.
As I said SOE created the problems. There were NO Buffs on launch armor was not as good as it became and same with weapons to fight high level mobs you had to group and it was fun (buggy as hell but fun.) Instead of trying to fix up the Problems they created they completly redid everything.
A Good example is this they kept putting new things in a Living Room until it became unbearable but instead of taking things out and redesigining the living room they completely tore down the ENTIRE Living Room the good and the bad and Rebuilt the Living Room so now it is Taller and Bigger and sticks out from the rest of the House.
Monthigos Said in a previous post this
"This is of course a slap in the face to a very core constituient of players, those who roleplay, and those who craft."
You're taking insult where no insult was intended. I meant unless you've never picked up a gun before, chances are you're going to like new guns.
Again that is FORCING a Playstyle on Someone here is the way they changed it you want to craft you either have to group or become a fighter. FORCING a playstyle is WRONG it is like saying you can ONLY work these JOBS.
Originally posted by 5C0UT So - if you've read this far - you're asking yourself "Why the hell did they put in the level system? What POSSIBLE use could it be?"
Because, now SOE can use the level system to encourage people to purchase expansions. How? The durrent level cap is 80. Say, six months down the road they say, "Wee need to bump up profits." All they have to do is put out an expansion that wouls allow you to have a cap of 85 or 90 and some new super weapon or skill that will require a level of 82 to use. Please refer to EverQuest. (Especially since that is where the base code for SGWII came from.) When SOE launched Planes of Power, buying the expansion allowed "Alternate Advancement" Giving players access to new content, abilities. weapons and titles that those who didn't buy could not get or use. A very handy way to push more software, but very hard to impliment under the old system.
I thought the article was well written. Especially from a new players perspective. It doesn't matter to new players what the old system was like, they will never have the pleasure/sorrow of using it. It is what SOE has made it. There is no point in rehashing the good points and the bad points. You either hate it or you love it and no amount of postings will change anyone's mind. As it is, those of us that have been keeping the game alive for them to be able to pull it out from under us, have two choices. We can decide that the total is greater than the sum of the parts and keep playing, or decide that we have been PLAYED by SOE and look elsewhere to spend our money.
Originally posted by Monthigos This is a classic example of players getting comfortable with a certain method and grumbling when they are forced to figure out new ways to play.
This is OUR game. We have paid for and kept this game afloat for the last two plus years. We shouldn't be "forced" to do anything. And in reality I suppose we aren't. We can gladly figure out new ways to play, or leave. Unfortunately, I think most will do the latter, including me. The game I purchased is no more. Since they lifted the combat system directly from EQ, I suppose I could go back to playing that. The subscription is cheaper and my older machine will run it better than SWG. On second thought, why would I want to put money in SOE's other pocket. I think Turbine will be getting my MMORPG money for a while, at least until they screw their games up.
But I still think you did a good job on the article, although I hate the CU.
Originally posted by Monthigos "There is also the point that certain professions simply no longer matter. "
I may be mitaken, but I think he was referring to most crafters and entertainers. I know ALL the combat classes are complaining, but from their point of view everyone should be equal EXCEPT their profession which should be more powerful.
Haha, this guy has it half right and half wrong...the new icons are horrible to say the least and SOE's stubborness at going back to the old icons is but a taste of their ignorance and lack of care for what their customers want...The queue has been killed almost completely, making fighting anything a pain, HAM, mind and action have been slapped around and forced into a mimic of the proven more popular MMO's, such is SOE's new style..."if you cant be original, then copy the hell out of 'em"
Over the years has SOE created a solo'ing minded group of gamers? possibly..The game was more or less great as was, you could solo easily and group if you so desired..the new system FORCES you to group, despite what this offer says there is hardly any "balance" with this new system, if anything it is far more 'tarded then before.
The bottom line is that SWG is dying, has been for some time now..with the CU taking place and a massive portion of the loyal gamers leaving is mass exodus the game doesnt stand a chance of survival, during the Ep. III fanboi gain period SWG MIGHT re-gain as many players as they lost with introducing this P.O.S they call the CU but they arent the loyal gamers that the game once had and for this reason alone, SOE believing that their current fanbase was expendable the game will die in the near future.
If that isnt enough to dissuade anyone from coming back to this game then you need not look further than SOE's atrocious treatment of anti-CU players..our VALID messages were erased from existance, we were banned for nothing more then expressing our opinions, we were silenced! along with many, MANY other things such as not working with players in the first place to make this thing,not having any give and take (so to speak) with this new sytem, personally I wont ever purchase another sony brand product for this reason alone, if they choose to treat their customers like something they stepped in then I will be more then happy to go play Morrowind for another few months until CoV comes out and I have something to hold my attention.
The CU is just a veiled attempt at converting SWG to a bastardised version of EQ2. I been playing SWG for about 6 months so I am (was) a relatively new player. Being such fan of the movies, I wanted to become a Jedi and so I spent those 6 months working towards that distant goal. Well I finally became s padawan about 2 weeks before the CU and was quite happy about that.
Well since the CU, i can't grind xp solo because, lets face it, anything giving even a barely acceptable rate of xp slaughters me. That's cool, guess i'll just bite the visibility bullet and group. Well that works out fine for about an hour before i get ganked by a couple of nice BHs.
Conclusion: Thanks to the "CU", I can no longer solo, and as a padawan, I can group for an hour before losing any xp I have made and a lot more from the nice BH that show up.
Comments
Ill tell you right now that I have not had any fun since the CU was rolled out. Not dismissing anyones arguement, Ill say this. That if you like PVP then you will most likely like the CU. There are those of us who werent in the game for the COMBAT..... LIKE DOCTORS... who are now forced to fight. If I had want to fight in SWG I would have been a combat medic. ANd since I dont want to fight what do I do?? I cant get to my harvestors.. I get killed.. So I am supposed to get a group together to follow me around to check my harvestors.. Rediculous. I have heard alot of poeple say they enjoy the cu but I ve seen more people leave my guild and my server because of it. Ive had to say goodbye to a lot of friends.
As to your article, I felt it was a just another attempt to tell people how good the cu is.. I wonder if you are listening to our comments like SOE does. Are you going to start deleting our replies.?? And one of the biggest points I would like to point out that you missed is the fact that most of us dont appreciate having to PAY TO PLAY A BETA LEVEL GAME!!!!! Unbelievable...
I certainly wont. Just in my family alone SOE has lost 14 accounts between myself and my cousins.. Weve all gone to WOW, and where it lacks in some of the elements the SOE had to offer it makes up for by not having to CONVINCE its subscribers how great it is.
I loved SWG.. LOVED that is, it WAS a great game..
RIP PRE-CU SWG 4-26-05
SWG RIP 4/26/05
Im fairly new th this website but i just felt that i needed to speak
I loved soloing i did this becuase my guild is Uk and im US so our times differed, i would go down the the Nightsisters and die but would give a good fight and a week before the CU went live i found the best part of the game for me. the Death Wach Bunker, i would go down with 5 jedi, some tanks, and some healers and have a blast that any solo player couldnt get and was on my way to getting a jetpack. but the CU changed the game and, for lack of a better description sucks.....
well heres my second reason for posting, there where large scale protests and petitions, i know ones servers Planet Corellia crashed and i have screenies of the protests on my server:
Nice screen shots.. And they say that everyone loved it.. HAHAHA Has anyone else read the forum post on SWG from smedly.. If you havent go check it out. I think he puts it best when he says that SOE knew that they would allienate some of their core base but that they wouldnt have gone forward with the CU unless they thought it was for the good of the game. Im paraphrasing. It just shows that SOE had no intention of listening to the wishes of it players in the first place. SO I ask why all the games about wanting our feedback when your dont plan to listen anyways.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=generalgame&message.id=85
SWG RIP 4/26/05
The best thing I am trying to do right now is try to not let what SOE's CU and their attitude towards their customers deter me from ever enjoying anything Star Wars ever again. It wasn't just the fact that I purchased a game to play one month before it became a whole new one (now that most games are online- not my cup of tea, but it still gave one the abiltiy to solo). It was the fact that with the CU, my characters could not leave the city without a near death experience. I did not buy the game to play it with other people. I don't want to "group" to get XP. I shouldn't have to. I purchased a game that SAID it gave the customer the ability to solo in the world of Star Wars. The box did not say, "For you and a group of strangers to enjoy the world of Star Wars". It is not only this, but when poeple were posting complaints on the SOE forum, they were being deleted. And then the forum had to "go down for mantinence". Yeah right! I'm sorry, but I read the article where SOE basically said they new that the CU wasn't ready but they wanted to get it out by E3. Not cool, Goodbye SWG hello World of Warcraft!!!
Whereas a review is always a subjective matter, I agree that the article does not accurately depict the motives for the massive protest against the CU and that it does not touch upon some of the more severe bugs and extreme player setbacks.
People who played a long time to get to a certain stage in the game, suddenly found themselves being almost helpless on their own. They noticed some of the basics of their professions altered. They discovered certain items they spent much time gathering -weapons and armour- could not be used anymore. They saw several issues, though loudly voiced, remain unadressed...
Promoting grouping is one thing, but there were many ways to have done just that while simply adding to the content, instead of changing it. Besides, as it stood a few weeks ago when I left, many servers just weren't fit for group playing. Entire planets with only a handful of actual players... Hardly ideal for staging a group hunt.
Even if those people cancel their subscription -as I did-, they will not get the money back they invested in the game pre-CU. Because that's what long-term MMORPG playing is for a lot of people, an investment in long lasting entertainment, where time and effort are rewarded through achieving a certain status within the game world.
These aren't just "growing pains" or people having difficulties with change, those are valid reasons for protest. This is, regardless whether you like or hate it, a rip-off for a lot of customers.
AC (retired); EQ (retired); DAoC (retired); Horizons (retired); EQII (retired); CoH (retired); AC II (tested); Lineage II (beta); Neocron (tested); Saga of Ryzom (beta); SWG (retired)...
Good review overall. don't realy have time to get too deep on this but Il'l drop my opinion as asked.
Love star wars, HATED the "I wanna be original" old combat system. It didnt take long at all to get to the top and it quickly got old having to rely on players so much. I read about the new CU and reinstalled the game with an open mind and high hopes and to my surprise I was NOT disappointed AT ALL. I love the new icons, the action timers, the lvl system (which you forgot to mention also determines the weapons you can wield) No more walking thru the game with the same cheesed gun that you got your hands on early on.
Its more simple, quick, and group friendly.
Finaly starting to feel like Star Wars instead of Craft Wars.
Sorry if you dissagree, however you wanna look at it, thier getting my subscription fee now.
As i must pay SOE money for a game i dont like (and beta-test it) for 2 more weeks and Clint Nielson can't wait to hear about my experience in the game ....so here it is:
I played the CU the first days it went live,i was excited and full of hope.(yes,call me an idiot..)
There were (are?) massive bugs and bizarre "balancing-problems"(I soloed krayts,pre-CU we needed a group...the group was needed for smaller things,like lvl 82 giant worrts
)
As there were and are nearly no announcements or information from SOE ....should i believe that it works like intended? Anybody knows what works like it should?I guess no,SOE is testing and balancing it on live-servers.
Nevertheless i and my friends gave it a try(things will get better over the years...)
I dont like the lvl-system that force you to fight against a special lvl...i like to examine an opponent,take a look at my equipment and judge for my (-our)self if i risk the fight.This lvl-system here is a kiddies game in my eyes.Next point is,for all of our group the combat-speed felt ....erm...somehow wrong.We were able to kill,but it was no fun.
Soloing .....I nearly never did it before CU,but i liked to stroll around with a bit sightseeing and fighting every now and then.Totally Senseless now,however,i may be wrong,never dared to ask for a group just to stroll around with me an hour or two...
All in all this is a new game and i treated it so and i wont play it . In my country we have a saying(hope you understand the meaning)..neither is it fish,nor flesh.Getting exp shouldn t be the only point in a game,that will not make fun in the long term,and i dont understand there's so much talking about how easy or hard that is.So,you have the exp you need,now it is fun?Harvest hide for a month or two?
I don't want to talk much about my weaponsmith-alt as Clint Nielson doesnt seem to know much or care about crafting,i only want to say that i didn't craft because of credits(you earn more and also more easy credits with a fighter)but because of the challenge.All gone....no motivation...
In my oppinion the borked old system(which definately needed changes) provided more long-time-fun than this new,everybody and everything equalizing system.
To have long-time-fun i need a long-time aim,(i don t want to become jedi and i am only partly interested in pvp) that could have been in the old system to become a great crafter,to be able to solo a legendary opponent,to get the best equipment,to be a great miner.......
A nearly only fight based game can be fun,i like WOW,but this new galaxies seems to me like a horrible and grotesque clone now.
so you didnt like relying on crafters, entertainers, docs? you do realize you still rely on crafters and now also rely on 4-8 other people everytime you hunt.
A myth.
You can hunt alone perfectly well. You just have to learn the new system - it offers you all the abilities to fight well, even against groups.
Hunting in a group makes it EASIER and gaining XP is FASTER ... thats all. Its not like SWG is a race, you know.
You were able to master your combat professions in 1-2 weeks before CU ... and even if its 3-4 weeks NOW fighting solo .. thats still a small amount of time to master a template compared to many other MMORPGs. And some of us have been playing SWG for about 2 years now ... what difference do 2 weeks make in that context ?
Have fun
Erillion
I was trying to figure out some words to give a fair review of the Combat Upgrade like the original MMORPG post was.
Instead I will just let it out cold and simple. Combat Upgrade is not my problem with SWG. We have played for months after months waiting for fixes to work and content to be added.
SOE/Lucas Arts have again delivered 30% of what is promissed and they still expect us to be all smiley about it.
You order a large pizza and get a pie, what do you do?
You either complain and wait to get the large pizza, or you walk out the door.
I walked out. Got tired of waiting for the full product.
For you that stayed, keep paying your $15 a month for a slice....good luck and have fun, that is all that matters.
The article seems a little biased towards the negative, the main one being that SOE took a radically different way of PC progression and reverted it back to a tried and tested way. I get the feeling it is following the general popular view.
Personally, I've been playing (not intensely,as its not my way) for nearly 18 months, and pre-CU I was still popping meatlumps/kooks outside Coronet. This was sustaining me enough to continue, in between lvl15 missions, and I had reached 1012BH, Novice Carbineer, 2231Ranger from Master Marksman/Scout. I always thought I'd reached 3/4 the way to the top level with these stats, but I was still amusing myself with low level mobs. I could not get anywhere near missions on Dantooine and similar. You can see it was very slow going. You'll say why didn't you get buffed up and group. I say I didn't like the idea of waiting 30mins for buffs before finding a group, and thought the idea of the solo group was rediculous, even though they were very effective. I just occupied myself with soloing very slowly.
Post CU (baring in mind I'm on Chimaera that has had a x4XP period) in one week (equate to 4 weeks) after respeccing and find that I was classed as lvl40 (a lot lower than I thought I'd be) I have hunted on Lok, Talus, Rori, Dantooine, and Yavin4 all without the need for 3rd party buffs, and have now got to 3343Carbineer, 4443Ranger, being lvl65 and really enjoying it. The game has a new lease of life for me.
All this will blow over, and the game will continue from strength to strength.
All I have to whinge about are the whingers. I read the forums to find information and help, not complaints.
Ya know what, screw it Im gonna reactivate my account and give it a try. New doesnt always equal bad. How many everquesters said they'd never play WoW?
BundyTheRipper
First and foremost, this was far from an "in-depth" look at the Combat Upgrade. It focused on some of the things that are good about it, and ignored some of the most pressing issues that were behind the massive cancellations. I submit it also contained a few smug remarks that MMORPG.com should've paid attention to before posting this, as it runs the risk of insulting many people. The editors words will be in quotations:
"You can also kiss the combat queue good bye and say hello to that corner of your screen. Good news? Not really. Instead of loading up attack patterns in your queue, you will now find all of your time consumed watching the new timers that specials run on. Since different specials run on different timers, you wont be able to spam attacks to be optimally effective. Sneakily enough, the developers of SWG snuck in a mini-queue where you can select one extra attack in advance which is highlighted by a yellow bracket. Without the queue combat FEELS frenzied, if only marginally more than how it was before."
Yet we must also remember that the emphasis of the combat upgrade was to make the game more "Starwarsy." If it does not add to a Star Wars experience, it is a failure on the part of the combat upgrade. Tell me, how does adding horse pictures add to a more Star wars experience? Then there is the issue of state effects, rings around lairs, doctors being able to magically heal, etc. How is this more starwarsy? Gone are the realistic sounds of blasters and weapons, and we now have something totally different that sounds like it came from Azeroth or Norath (the areas of WoW and EQ2). From a graphical standpoint, the game is not given a more star wars experience.
"Unfortunately going with the flow has stolen some of SWGs individuality."
In regards to the HAM system, sure there could have been problems with it. If you remember, part of the talk about the Combat upgrade was to make it so that you had to drain all 3 pools before you could incap someone. This would require strategy. Such an innovative concept would've maintained SWG's individaulity, and this was the plan they were going with for quite some time. This was dropped, and there was no explanation as to WHY this was dropped. The goal of the Combat Upgrade again was to make Star Wars unique. On this note, the HAM system failed miserably as well, as it is now just like every other game.
"Essentially what happens behind the screen is that two Jawas take your number and match it up with the number of the creature you are fighting. Who ever has the highest number wins, and if the numbers are the same or VERY similar, the fight is determined by little factors, like specials, buffs, armor and weapons. If you catch the feeling of the previous statement, youll understand that level is the bantha burger and everything else is the condiments that go on top. Perhaps the old system let you and I get away with too much, but the new system has a VERY restrictive feel to it."
The editor is certainly right on this one. There is a restrictive feel to it. There is no tactical strategy involved. Simply find an equal or lower level, and you will win. Anything one or two levels above you cannot defeat because of damage multipliers. This was not mentinoed in the editorial, and this is one of the largest criticisms of the combat upgrade. Simply put, you take more damage from a creature that is one level above you, even if you are 500 times larger than the creature. Meanwhile, those creatures 500 times larger than you, if they have a slightly lower level, you can pwn em easy. No longer is their individuality amongst the creatures you fight. The game loses more individuality and innovation, one of the goals of the CURB. Whereas before, you had to have some tactic involved in your fight, now there is less, and the battle is decided really before anything even starts. This was excactly what they stated would not be done.
"Indeed, the Combat Upgrade was designed to bring back the grouping experience found in the early days of SWG, and this is without a doubt where the new system shines brighter than a stormtroopers breast plate. As players band together, their levels are temporarily increased to that of the highest person in the group. While it does not compensate for poor stats, it does at least give lower level players a fighting chance. "
Why that level increase matters is because now the damage multipliers will be less. That is absolutely unrealistic and not tactical at all, that a creature will hit you for less simply because someone is grouped with you. Even if the person is not involved in the fight, but somewhere around you, you can now beat a creature. Disband, and watch him one hit one kill you. That takes any strategy out of the game, as it's just see how many FOTM's you can stack in a group. A simple reduction of armor and buffs and the original all pools to incap system could've fixed this. Soloing could still be done, but it would take forever, and groups would have to be tactical in draining all 3 stat pools. The days of simply spamming headshot3 or headhit3 would've been done for. Boom no more spammers and group tactics are important, right in the old system. Lower level fighters before had a chance even without 90% comp because a creature did this much damage no matter what. Now that's not the case. Hence a crafter cannot leave the city, because a noobie kreetle can one shot him. They can't even run from a fight.
"Group experience is calculated in such a way that if you land a couple of blow you get full experience for the kill. What exactly is full experience? Well, if you get 1000 experience points for killing a white creature solo, then when grouped you will get 1000 experience points for killing a white creature. The only difference is that white creature grouped is equivalent to the level of the highest member of the group, making it one mean bugger. So why group at all? The answer is simple. With a decent group, experience gains are MUCH faster than solo, and have a nice group bonus to boot."
Of course this doesn't involve player development. It's like the FRS gank squads with Jedis from before. You will see max groups walking around all getting 2 or 3 hits involved, just for their xp. Again, no real strategy.
"Even entertainers are feeling the hefty effects of the new system. Instead of mind buffs, they now provide a singular inspiration buff which slightly increases experience and faction gains. You might enjoy the fact that you dont need to group with the entertainer to experience this new type of buff, however some entertainers are unhappy about this new method that is difficult to regulate in such a way that yields profit."
Replace some with the overwhelming majority and that might be an accurate statement. While doctors might have some limited use in the field, in the new SWG, entertainers, ID's, etc, have no purpose whatsoever. BF and wounds don't happen as much, and the inspiration buff is not as effective as it's touted. Furthermore, there is no gaurentee renumeration would occur for services provided, as you no longer have to group to get the buff. That was the way before that both sides held up their end of the bargain. You paid, you get buffed. You don't pay, you don't get buffed. For a proffession that already relied on generosity (you will not meet anyone who got rich being an entertainer) this destroys them. Also once again, they can no longer leave the city or else they will get one shot incapped by things 100 times smaller than them.
"If you like weapons youre in luck. Of course if you plan on actually doing anything other than crafting and role playing in SWG, than you definitely have a thing for the hardware."
This is of course a slap in the face to a very core constituient of players, those who roleplay, and those who craft. In a player based economy, crafting makes the world go round. This is no longer the case, as there is no incentive to become a good crafter. Before the 12 pter's spent all their money to become a 12 pt crafter, and then their products were innovative and individual. Now the 12pt'er is barely better than the person who just mastered. The time and energy spent to becoming the best is no longer worth it. Hardwork and innovation are put on an equal playing field with laziness and sloth.
While not a hardcore RP'er, this is an online role playing game, so therefore role playing should be encouraged. The simple fact is these kind of things are directly counterproductive to roleplaying.
"Right now SWG is going through a hefty conversion process with bugs galore. But then again, what would SWG be without its bugs? Dont answer that. For a limited time players also get the benefits of being able to respec their characters every twelve hours, and double XP in one of the following weeks. Now is definitely a good time to get to find out what type of character you like to play. Granted that is if you can stand not being able to find items on the bazaar because of a nasty bug that keeps pre-CU items from showing their stats until they are replaced back on the vendor. But day by day a new patch is released and the issues are being resolved."
And here is another crux of the issue. The person who gave hard work and innovation, discpline, and training into his profession is no longer any better than the l337 speaker looking for a FOTM. When I played for 14 months, I changed professions twice on each toon. (From rifleman/cm to pikeman/cm on Ulot and from swordman/rifleman to swordman/ranger on Dajoka.) There is a joy in having those professions, and sticking with them for good and bad, and you learn the tactics of each profession. Those are now gone. Any game needs a strong veteran community to help the newbies out. That is no longer the case, as there is no longer a difference between a veteran and a noob, at least right now. Everyone starts from scratch. It essentially robs peter to pay paul. of course, he who robs Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul. noobs will love it, because they can essentailly leetch off the more experienced players, and don't have to learn anything on their own. Just find a lvl 80 to group with, and it becomes cake. You don't have to do much, just land the occasional shot in.
There is also the point that certain professions simply no longer matter. You talk about how you can do all these great things as a BH/SL, but that's the point, the CURB was meant to get rid of this FOTM thing, while there were at least multiple FOTM's before, if people really wanna do much, they are almost forced to go BH. Rather than certain professions being good in certain circumstances, you have just as much imbalance as before. MBH/MSL is the new "I win" button.
The editor does also not touch upon the most important part of why people left, the way SOE treated it's playerbase. Fadeus loves to point out how flawed polling is, but I'm sure he knows that if the numbers said something different, you can gaurentee SOE would parrot those numbers. It's simple when you poll, find the poll that reflects your numbers. If SOE had one, you can gaurentee they would pull it out. Yet when poll after poll shows at best mixed results, that tells you something about the overall playerbase. Polling is flawed of course, but that works both ways.
There was also the fact that the shoe dropped, and SOE admitted to forcing the CU live so people could find the problems. That's called BETA testing. Yet people were forced to pay to beta test something. Furthermore, when they reported problems, they were silenced. Garva's evil iron fist was swung, and Tiggs made such arrogant statements that will live in infamy (only 50 people on these forums oppose the combat upgrade.) Had they not asked player opinion, we would've been mad for different reasons, but we can't say they were lying or betraying anyone. When they asked for player opinion, and the result was overwhelming (develop this more) they then flat out ignored that opinion. So now they must pay the consequence for lying to their playerbase. Allowing people who love the CU the right to insult and flame people who disagree with it, but then when someone defends themselves, Garva deletes their post and bans their account, of course eventually you will get people to like the CU. Nobody is allowed to dissent, so of course only the positive voices will be heard. And on the SOE forums, that is essentially what you have now. Such snowjobs ignoring any real criticism of the CU and only criticizing ancilliary points such as what the editor did serve no function to this game.
Excellent post, Iceman00.
Iceman00's above post explains very well what some of the things that were lacking in this written article. Asking the hard questions and reading between the lines to actually understand why something is happening the way it is, is good reporting. The article was thorough but it glossed over and ignored many important aspects as to "why".
I thought at first that this article was perhaps in cooporation with SOE, but I no longer think that and am convinced it was completely independent although "soft". If you want to see a "true review" that completely insulted the intelligence of the readers, SWG players, and respectablity of a reviewing website, then you should check out the IGN tripe that was recently "published" about the CU.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/611/611270p1.html?fromint=1
{(RIP)} SWG
Its quite obvious that many of these gaming sites are financially supported by SOE. The IGN article is case in point. I even think that many of the writers of these positive articles are SOE employees. It's overwhelmingly obvious that the player base is against the CU.
I personally am not able to comment due to a technical problem with the launchpad. I played the game for 1-1/2 years with my current system and configuration. I reactivated my account to try out the new CU; but could not get past the update/download process which seems to be problematic now. After weeks of email correspondance, I still can't log on to try it out.
The funny thing is that many of the players that hate the CU are still playing!! This is because they are addicted to the virtual world. If they could only overcome this addiction for a week and all cancel their accounts they would have SOE by the balls. It happened with The Matrix Online, they introduced a huge nerf to gaining experience, a huge player base cancelled and wallah the nerf was un-nerfed. This is America and everything is driven by the all-mightly dollar; grab em by the dollar and their hearts and minds will follow.
anyway my $0.02
"Tell me, how does adding horse pictures add to a more Star wars experience?"
The horse pictures have been changed to Taun-Tauns, but if you read my article you could see that was also a gripe of mine.
"Then there is the issue of state effects, rings around lairs"
I agree that particle effects are over the top, although I cut that from my article because it ran past my allotment.
"doctors being able to magically heal"
Doctors use bacta now, which I find to be more star-warsy. How they are able to heal without medical supplies does warrant explanation, which I agree with. But ultimately I feel it was a good choice. As a doctor meds always filled up my inventory, not to mention there was a lot of times where I was missing certain meds. I believe the changes have made the doctor experience more enjoyable.
"Gone are the realistic sounds of blasters and weapons"
That sounds like a comment I made during beta. All of the sound effects for weapons were removed from beta, and the only thing people could hear was blaster bolts hitting their targets. Many people assumed these were new sound effects, when in fact they were not. Before the CU went live the sound effects were added back in. Many weapons have their own distinctive sounds to them and in my humble opinion they all sound like variations of the Star Wars blasters.
"In regards to the HAM system, sure there could have been problems with it. If you remember, part of the talk about the Combat upgrade was to make it so that you had to drain all 3 pools before you could incap someone. This would require strategy. Such an innovative concept would've maintained SWG's individaulity, and this was the plan they were going with for quite some time. This was dropped, and there was no explanation as to WHY this was dropped. The goal of the Combat Upgrade again was to make Star Wars unique. On this note, the HAM system failed miserably as well, as it is now just like every other game."
I personally feel the current system works well. The old system had a fundamental flaw where healing could be pulled from the mind pool. That originally made it so professions that specialized on the mind attacks would have an advantage. They eliminated this problem by introducing the 'uber' buffs, but ultimately negated any penalty cost for using specials or healing and introduced spamming. It my opinion, with each subsequent patch they took away from the original grouping experience that was so central to the game when it first launched.
It is possible that waiting for all three pools to drain could have worked with the system. Of course that change might have made it impossible for some profession that cannot effectively target certain pools to have a fair chance, thus leading to what I believe would have been another massive profession restructing. So my question is, why build off a complicated, flawed system when you can just redesign the whole system up from scratch, start with something simple and go from there? Its the difference between building on an old cracked foundation and a new one.
The editor is certainly right on this one. There is a restrictive feel to it. There is no tactical strategy involved. Simply find an equal or lower level, and you will win. Anything one or two levels above you cannot defeat because of damage multipliers.
"This was not mentinoed in the editorial, and this is one of the largest criticisms of the combat upgrade. Simply put, you take more damage from a creature that is one level above you, even if you are 500 times larger than the creature. Meanwhile, those creatures 500 times larger than you, if they have a slightly lower level, you can pwn em easy. No longer is their individuality amongst the creatures you fight. The game loses more individuality and innovation, one of the goals of the CURB. Whereas before, you had to have some tactic involved in your fight, now there is less, and the battle is decided really before anything even starts. This was excactly what they stated would not be done. "
There is only so much I can say to indicated the restrictiveness of the system. I did spell it out in more detail when I first wrote the article, but in turn it ended up sounding redundant with a lot of technical data that 99% of the readers would not appreciated. I believe saying the system is restrictive sufficed for my purpose.
I disagree with your assement on tactics, however. I find that applying states is crucial to survival for the soloer. Before, the CU I hunted ten hours straight because I was afraid that my leveling would be incredibly slow once the CU hit. Most of the time I spammed just one attack, occassionally a knock down. However it wasn't crucial that I should do so. I was soloing five red mobs at a time and essentially all I had to do was spam my best attack and I would still survive with most of my health intact.
In the new system it is much clear cut on what you should fight, but if you've played the CU for any amount of time you might realize that a blue con mob can still obliverate your health if you are not using some strategy. As a BH I use a combination of blinds, knockdowns, dizzys and other effects in my arsenal to minimize the amount of damage I receive, not to mention having to pop stims when the time arises to keep alive. Similarly crowd control professions, which are not great at tanking have a number of rooting attacks which they will need to keep the enemy at bay so they can effectively solo them without getting obliverated. I find that the game now requires more strategy than it did before the CU.
"Why that level increase matters is because now the damage multipliers will be less. That is absolutely unrealistic and not tactical at all,"
It does not count for your total health, or your modifiers. All it does it keep you from getting instant-killed. If you've played the system for any amount of time you'll see that a level 10 person grouping with a level 80 still cannot damage much, and cannot take hits. Maybe its not realistic, but it works suprisingly well in application.
"Hence a crafter cannot leave the city, because a noobie kreetle can one shot him. They can't even run from a fight."
This isn't any different than how the game was when it launched. There was no uber armor or buffs to protect crafters who ran out in the middle of Lok to check harvesters, and yet they still did it. If I may remind you that crafters still have the options of:
a) Having a ranger applying camo (creating profession interdependancy)
b) Grouping with a level 80 character for the damage modifiers and then going off and doing their own thing - no one said they had to stay close to you.
c) Picking up a combat profession - there is enough skill points to be a master crafter and a master combatant
This is a classic example of players getting comfortable with a certain method and grumbling when they are forced to figure out new ways to play.
"Of course this doesn't involve player development. It's like the FRS gank squads with Jedis from before. You will see max groups walking around all getting 2 or 3 hits involved, just for their xp. Again, no real strategy."
That hasn't been my experience at all. When I've gone out on missions with a large group we get a TON of spawns from lairs. Most fights I've been in have had many, many creatures. I've seen people jump in the group thinking they can just get experience by sitting in the back and popping off a few shots, only to get aggroed and killed because they didn't know what they were doing, nor did they know how to properly utilize their profession. If anything I believe that if everyone is doing their part and using their specific abilities, then combat goes rather smoothly and that takes coordination and tactics.
"Replace some with the overwhelming majority and that might be an accurate statement. While doctors might have some limited use in the field, in the new SWG, entertainers, ID's, etc, have no purpose whatsoever. "
Need I remind that IDs did not want stat migration. I played an ID as my first profession and I watch their boards closely. Entertainers did get the shaft. I stated that. You're preaching to the choir.
"This is of course a slap in the face to a very core constituient of players, those who roleplay, and those who craft."
You're taking insult where no insult was intended. I meant unless you've never picked up a gun before, chances are you're going to like new guns.
"There is also the point that certain professions simply no longer matter. "
I disagree. My experience is that profession now have unique roles in combat. As a squad leader I provide damage modifiers. Creatures go down faster and our tanks have more health at the end of a battle. One of my specials paints a target on a creature which makes a good firing focus for the groups, and helps prevent mistargeting (which incidentally seems to kill a lot of people in groups). I know some profession (BH / TKA) are good for kinetic tanking and having them up in front taking the blows is great. Other profession like Pistoleer and Smugglers have specials which root the targets. Very useful when agros are out of control (which happens a lot with all the spawns a large group gets).
"The editor does also not touch upon the most important part of why people left, the way SOE treated it's playerbase. "
Which really doesn't have anything to do with the combat upgrade and how it plays. If it bothers you how SOE runs their business, then why has anyone played their games for so long? SOE has always struggled with community relations. What has changed now that suddenly made the players feel so different? The game was pushed live too early full of bugs. Many of their publishes introduced new bugs. Their community relations guys have had their fair share of incredulous statements. They ban and delete posts, but they've always done that. I find it amusing that some players act as if SOE suddenly changed into this monstrosity over night. They've always been this way. To me there is no point in dredging up this again. Everyone knows already. What is important to me is if the CU is fun. I reported it how I saw. I had fun. I'm not affiliate with SOE in anyway, I'm just saying it as how I see it.
- m o n t h i g o s -
My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMORPG.com
First off I hate the CU, but I still play Galaxies because I enjoy the game (and the CU didnt effect Space so I can spend my time there).
Who ever wrote this is very much intitled to their opinion and tho they are few, there are people out there that like this. However you are hard pressed to go in game and find people who like it. Last night I joined a guild that lost 50 people from the CU, and out of the current 70 people in it, 30 or better hardly play and are considering quiting. My friends list is empty, when it use to always be full... I mean there is a LOT of hate for the CU. So tho you are intitled to your opinion... it is not a very popular one with most SWG players right now.
The CU is just as flawed and un-balanced then the old system. The problems just arent as apparent yet. I still know people with "uber" templets, and "uber" unbalanced weapons that totally own in PVP. These things were suppose to die with the CU, but they didnt. Topped with cheap magic style effects, and horrid icons this game has taken a turn for the worse. Anyone who can sit there and say with a strait face the CU has made this a better Star Wars experience... dosnt know jack about Star Wars. I feel more like I am playing Ever Quest... hell Ultima Online feels more like Star Wars right now then Galaxies does.
But what gets me mad above all is SOEs compleat lack of communication and its massive amounts of lies. When the CU was in beta, and there was nothing but bad feedback SOE compleatly lied and said there was a lot of possitive feedback. I mean tho the poll on the boards was very inconclusive... SOE still claimed it showed good feedback for the CU durring the April HoC Dev chat, when a look at the poll that day showed 91% of people totally hated the CU. If SOE didnt lie about the state of things, then perhaps people could have taken it better. Even now SOE has said nothing about bugs they are working on, and the future of things. All they are syaing is, its staying, deal with it.
This is a good look at the CU from one perspective. The author forgot to include a few things like how the devs said the CU will bring back the star wars feel. IMHO they did not when in the movies or books did it take a huge group to take down 1 or even a few things (jedi not included). He also forgot how they screwed the jedi into the ground. He mentioned how tough it is to solo but he forgot to mention it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to solo at high levels even blues can take out a Level 80. They turned a game that did have problems (problems that SOE CREATED grouping was more fun on Launch then it does now). They screwed Jedi's (which some people say is not a bad thing) and they forced a playstyle on thier community and I mean FORCED that is you have to group to even do anything at high levels.
As far as I am concerned the 2 things that mainly made me cancel all 4 of my accounts was turning a Skill based Virtual World into a Level based Quest WoW/EQ2 in SW Universe and the icons. It did not feel like Star Wars anymore I felt like I was playing a EQ game that happened to be set in the SW Universe. SOE did was what most people was afraid they would make a EQ in Space.
As I said SOE created the problems. There were NO Buffs on launch armor was not as good as it became and same with weapons to fight high level mobs you had to group and it was fun (buggy as hell but fun.) Instead of trying to fix up the Problems they created they completly redid everything.
A Good example is this they kept putting new things in a Living Room until it became unbearable but instead of taking things out and redesigining the living room they completely tore down the ENTIRE Living Room the good and the bad and Rebuilt the Living Room so now it is Taller and Bigger and sticks out from the rest of the House.
Monthigos Said in a previous post this
Again that is FORCING a Playstyle on Someone here is the way they changed it you want to craft you either have to group or become a fighter. FORCING a playstyle is WRONG it is like saying you can ONLY work these JOBS.
Because, now SOE can use the level system to encourage people to purchase expansions. How? The durrent level cap is 80. Say, six months down the road they say, "Wee need to bump up profits." All they have to do is put out an expansion that wouls allow you to have a cap of 85 or 90 and some new super weapon or skill that will require a level of 82 to use. Please refer to EverQuest. (Especially since that is where the base code for SGWII came from.) When SOE launched Planes of Power, buying the expansion allowed "Alternate Advancement" Giving players access to new content, abilities. weapons and titles that those who didn't buy could not get or use.
A very handy way to push more software, but very hard to impliment under the old system.
I thought the article was well written. Especially from a new players perspective. It doesn't matter to new players what the old system was like, they will never have the pleasure/sorrow of using it. It is what SOE has made it. There is no point in rehashing the good points and the bad points. You either hate it or you love it and no amount of postings will change anyone's mind. As it is, those of us that have been keeping the game alive for them to be able to pull it out from under us, have two choices. We can decide that the total is greater than the sum of the parts and keep playing, or decide that we have been PLAYED by SOE and look elsewhere to spend our money.
This is OUR game. We have paid for and kept this game afloat for the last two plus years. We shouldn't be "forced" to do anything. And in reality I suppose we aren't. We can gladly figure out new ways to play, or leave. Unfortunately, I think most will do the latter, including me. The game I purchased is no more. Since they lifted the combat system directly from EQ, I suppose I could go back to playing that. The subscription is cheaper and my older machine will run it better than SWG. On second thought, why would I want to put money in SOE's other pocket. I think Turbine will be getting my MMORPG money for a while, at least until they screw their games up.
But I still think you did a good job on the article, although I hate the CU.
Haha, this guy has it half right and half wrong...the new icons are horrible to say the least and SOE's stubborness at going back to the old icons is but a taste of their ignorance and lack of care for what their customers want...The queue has been killed almost completely, making fighting anything a pain, HAM, mind and action have been slapped around and forced into a mimic of the proven more popular MMO's, such is SOE's new style..."if you cant be original, then copy the hell out of 'em"
Over the years has SOE created a solo'ing minded group of gamers? possibly..The game was more or less great as was, you could solo easily and group if you so desired..the new system FORCES you to group, despite what this offer says there is hardly any "balance" with this new system, if anything it is far more 'tarded then before.
The bottom line is that SWG is dying, has been for some time now..with the CU taking place and a massive portion of the loyal gamers leaving is mass exodus the game doesnt stand a chance of survival, during the Ep. III fanboi gain period SWG MIGHT re-gain as many players as they lost with introducing this P.O.S they call the CU but they arent the loyal gamers that the game once had and for this reason alone, SOE believing that their current fanbase was expendable the game will die in the near future.
If that isnt enough to dissuade anyone from coming back to this game then you need not look further than SOE's atrocious treatment of anti-CU players..our VALID messages were erased from existance, we were banned for nothing more then expressing our opinions, we were silenced! along with many, MANY other things such as not working with players in the first place to make this thing,not having any give and take (so to speak) with this new sytem, personally I wont ever purchase another sony brand product for this reason alone, if they choose to treat their customers like something they stepped in then I will be more then happy to go play Morrowind for another few months until CoV comes out and I have something to hold my attention.
The CU is just a veiled attempt at converting SWG to a bastardised version of EQ2. I been playing SWG for about 6 months so I am (was) a relatively new player. Being such fan of the movies, I wanted to become a Jedi and so I spent those 6 months working towards that distant goal. Well I finally became s padawan about 2 weeks before the CU and was quite happy about that.
Well since the CU, i can't grind xp solo because, lets face it, anything giving even a barely acceptable rate of xp slaughters me. That's cool, guess i'll just bite the visibility bullet and group. Well that works out fine for about an hour before i get ganked by a couple of nice BHs.
Conclusion: Thanks to the "CU", I can no longer solo, and as a padawan, I can group for an hour before losing any xp I have made and a lot more from the nice BH that show up.
Thanks SOE.