Do you believe in a God

Marund · May 2005

Im not religious... I'm an atheist to the fullest.. but I might believe there is something that science cannot explain, greater than the universe. According to scientific laws, there needs to be a source of everything, so wheres the source of the universe? where the source of the thing that was the source of the universe? It never stops, but there must be ONE SOURCE of everything, which people explain as 'god' because as of yet, we do not have the knowledge and power to find this question out, and we never will.

Other creatures on other planets might already have found out for all we know. They might fly around with star-wars'y spaceships shootin eachother. And some might even think the way we do, and they might have religions aswell because they CANNOT PROVE existance. Or maybe they can?

I am a realist, but these questions bother me A LOT!

Marketh126 · May 2005

Ok i this may not help but i'm going to say it anyway...

I was raised in a christian family......and i guess i never really connected....untill Aquire the Fire

I like what i have read w/ some of you... thought my life was fine and everything was going fine and i was wondering why do i need a God..... why do i need a God.

At Aquire the Fire i realized there was something more and even though life was going great i wanted that something more.... it wasnt the fact taht i was hurt and i needed something to fill "a hole in my heart" it was the fact that knowing that there is something more and the only way to get to this awesome thing is by having a intamite relationship with God......Thats why i have to say and in my devotions a couple weeks ago... i found a verse that is hardcore awesome.

"He(were talking about moses) chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin FOR A SHORT TIME" Hebrews 11:25 emphisis added I just thoguth i would add that verse for fun

IcoGames · May 2005

Originally posted by firemagic
Other people are less pompous, pig-headed and self-important. They prefer to accept the world they live in on its own terms and enjoy the one life they have, instead of cheapening human life by pretending this is the crappy bit before you die and go to eternal sunshine and joy.

Lol, I'm not suprised this thread reached 50+ pages. I'll go ahead and duck out at this point, thanking each of you that kept the discussion civil. ::::20::

I encourage everyone to at least be tolerantand civil toward each other's beliefs. Religion and Atheism are both far from dimishing, we may at least get along. ::::39::

FilipinoFury · May 2005

This thing is NEVER going to end. It will be a debate that will go on forever until you die. Because nobody has any proof that god is real and we cant prove that he is fake. I have my own veiws on weather god is real or not that ive already posted. Like i said before we arnt going to change each others minds this is not going to end where everybody is on the same side. It is completly pointless to keep debating over this. Its a lost cause. When you have 211,000+ people making claims on weather god is fake or real somebody is going to disagree with them no matter what.

Darkknight35 · May 2005

Firemagic this question is for you.

i want to ask you then, where do you get your moral principles and what laws should you follow? if I can do whatever i want because i dont have a god telling me what to do, so i can do whatever pleases me; that includes breaking the law, isn't this existential thinking to the extreme? how would America be if we followed a government based on existentialism? God gives us morals, not meaningless rules that he wants us to follow to simply please him, it is for our good. if you believe cheating, stealing, lying, murdering is wrong, you arleady follow most of God's command like it or not.

firemagic · May 2005

Originally posted by IcoGames
Originally posted by firemagic
Other people are less pompous, pig-headed and self-important. They prefer to accept the world they live in on its own terms and enjoy the one life they have, instead of cheapening human life by pretending this is the crappy bit before you die and go to eternal sunshine and joy.

Lol, I'm not suprised this thread reached 50+ pages. I'll go ahead and duck out at this point, thanking each of you that kept the discussion civil. ::::20::

I encourage everyone to at least be tolerantand civil toward each other's beliefs. Religion and Atheism are both far from dimishing, we may at least get along. ::::39::

Yeah I think I'll leave the thread too.

My sincerest apologies to anyone I've found impossible to respect because of their belief in ridiculous fairytales, and thanks to En1gma for not locking the thread for once.

In every other religious thread I've posted in the religious moderator goes lock crazy instead of hanging around to watch their belief system being dismantled.

Marund · May 2005

Originally posted by Darkknight35

Firemagic this question is for you.
i want to ask you then, where do you get your moral principles and what laws should you follow? if I can do whatever i want because i dont have a god telling me what to do, so i can do whatever pleases me; that includes breaking the law, isn't this existential thinking to the extreme? how would America be if we followed a government based on existentialism? God gives us morals, not meaningless rules that he wants us to follow to simply please him, it is for our good. if you believe cheating, stealing, lying, murdering is wrong, you arleady follow most of God's command like it or not.

Are you kidding me? Ask Osama Bin Laden, Sadam Hussein and almost every muslim terrorist WHY they do what they do. Their answer will be: "Allah wanted me to."

firemagic · May 2005

Originally posted by Darkknight35
Firemagic this question is for you.i want to ask you then, where do you get your moral principles and what laws should you follow? if I can do whatever i want because i dont have a god telling me what to do, so i can do whatever pleases me; that includes breaking the law, isn't this existential thinking to the extreme? how would America be if we followed a government based on existentialism? God gives us morals, not meaningless rules that he wants us to follow to simply please him, it is for our good. if you believe cheating, stealing, lying, murdering is wrong, you arleady follow most of God's command like it or not.

OK, I didn't see this when I just posted. Last post.

My answer is that you don't have a god telling you what to do.

You're in exactly the same position I am, except for the fact that you have a bunch of people telling you what god wants you to do.

You need to try and figure out whether they actually got the message from god himself or if they're just continuing an old tradition created by primitive people who were scared of dying.

I'll give you a clue to help you along the way: There is no god.

See y'all

Good reading for fearless people ::::32::

Darkknight35 · May 2005

Originally posted by Darkknight35
Firemagic this question is for you.i want to ask you then, where do you get your moral principles and what laws should you follow? if I can do whatever i want because i dont have a god telling me what to do, so i can do whatever pleases me; that includes breaking the law, isn't this existential thinking to the extreme? how would America be if we followed a government based on existentialism? God gives us morals, not meaningless rules that he wants us to follow to simply please him, it is for our good. if you believe cheating, stealing, lying, murdering is wrong, you arleady follow most of God's command like it or not.

fire could please answer my question before you leave

Marund · May 2005

Theres nothing that pisses me off more than seeing people going on oprah saying: "God gave me this skill" or "God rescued me from death." BULLSHIT! You were lucky, or had a good doctor, or good parents. God didnt do ANYTHING for you. Even if he existed, there is no way he would know you existed. Stop saying all this bullshit. If I ever was hit by a huge truck, smashed my face in and broke all my bones, but I could still talk I would say: I am LUCKY to survive. No 'god helped me' BS.

Marketh126 · May 2005

I just want to say that HanSolo i am 1000% with you in everything you have said sooo far. Us believers must stick together. So when you think all is lost(on a mmorpg site thats humorous) I am still here and i believe everything thay you say and will support you.

Just had to say that....

Miexon · May 2005

hm.. thot i would throw my hat in the ring.

I cant say that i believe in god because i have heard and seen what has gone on because of Religion in general in the world and if you have eyes and ears then you should know as well.

lets see...

Crusades: Millions of people died because the pope told them to go kill the infidel the un-christian people

WW2: Jews were killed because people didn't like there religion and what came with it

Israel Conflict between the Jews and Muslims over the "holy" land.

Current problem with middle east where terrorists or martyr's depending how you see it are killing themselves to get their point across and because "allah" told them too which allah means god. (which is probably payback for the christians in the middle ages attacking muslims)

Tibet was invaded because they didn't believe the same thing as china and also china wanted land and attacked the peace lovers

Inquistion: not only by christians against muslims and jews but also done against own followers just to get their house, land, animals, etc (discounted price)

Bubonic Plague: not caused by any religion but the jews were killed because they were blammed

Northern Ireland Conflict; Between Protestants and Catholics even though they are both christians killing each other

Spanish Missionaries converted Native americans the christianity because they told them they had it all wrong (and half of the time if they didn't convert were tortured or killed)

i think thats enough proof of how much pain the religions have caused while struggling to gain control of the world.

Puoltry · May 2005

I know 1 atheisit and the truth of the matter he is a lazy sack of you know what.He plays EQ all weekend long with his son watching him play.He would rather do that than go outside on a sunny day and play with his kid.

Absolutley pathetic.

Fact of the matter is hes just too lazy to get up off his ass and go to church and do the right thing by his kid.He is nothing more than a selfish little kid himself.

Ive seen the face of atheism and if this is the best this philosophy can do thats pretty bad.The irony is in eq you have to pick a "god" in character creation right?

Drega · May 2005

Originally posted by Puoltry

I know 1 atheisit and the truth of the matter he is a lazy sack of you know what.He plays EQ all weekend long with his son watching him play.He would rather do that than go outside on a sunny day and play with his kid.
Absolutley pathetic.

Fact of the matter is hes just too lazy to get up off his ass and go to church and do the right thing by his kid.He is nothing more than a selfish little kid himself.
Ive seen the face of atheism and if this is the best this philosophy can do thats pretty bad.The irony is in eq you have to pick a "god" in character creation right?

thats a rather pathetic basis for a generalization of rather large group of people isnt it? thats like me saying all catholics screw 8 year old boys.

Puoltry · May 2005

Sure it is but the posts a couple above me pointed out the atrocoties caused by religion.Nevermind the fact that it was man who commited them.

If its ok for someone to do that then i think its ok to generalize on the 1 atheist that i do know.

You have to admit the guy is pathetic.

Drega · May 2005

you are that is rather sad, for his son mainly. But though those actual events were cause by men, they were caused in the name of god, and caused the deaths of countles millions of people. The difference between that and one fat lazy man who doesnt have a concept of how to be father are rather drastic. His lazyness wont kill enough people to fill half the united states with corpses piled two deep and shoulder to shoulder.

Thantanos · May 2005

Originally posted by Vodalus
Originally posted by dekron
Originally posted by Vodalus
1. Nothing cannot cause something.
2. Nothing can cause itself, for it would first have to exist in order to create itself.
3. Anything with a beginning had to have a beginner.
a. according to the laws of thermodynamics, the universe began
4. We cannot have an infinite series of causes.
a. We would never have arrived at now
b. No infinite number of actual things is possible, for there can always be one more
5. There had to be an uncaused cause, the first cause, uncreated existence.

I always love when religious folk use these statements to support the existence of god. Your statements will ultimately work against you. If nothing cannot cause something and nothing cannot cause itself, then that proves against the existence of god as he cannot cause himself to come into existence. Number 5, "there has to be an uncaused cause", directly contradicts number 1 and 2. I beleive these are Anslem's proofs for existence (correct me if I am wrong, I haven't taken philosophy in a while).

Untrue. God did not cause himself, He is infinite meaning He has always existed, there as never been a time where God did not exist.

What is your cosmological belief? That nothing caused something?

Well, I believe that the universe was just always there. Why does there have to be a starting point for something? Can't it just be there, forever. There had to be something that was always there, for everything else to build on. Heres a bad comparison; it is thing about if you could keep on cutting something in halves forever, and the answer is you can't, there is a smallest unit (the atom?). And I guess the universe is (metaphorically) that thing that can't be cut up into a start or finishing place. It is that unit, that thing that was there forever. So maybe if you think God was always there, then the universe itself is God. And since we are all byproducts of the universe, we are all made up of the essence of God. We are all "Sons of God".

That's my reasoning anyways...

Yeah and btw: I do somewhat believe in God, but loosely. I believe more in the rules and the ideas than in the stories ( I am Hindu).

Drega · May 2005

that was probably the most logical thing Ive heard for a belief in god yet. well put.

Aldaron · May 2005

Well, I believe that the universe was just always there. Why does there have to be a starting point for something? Can't it just be there, forever. There had to be something that was always there, for everything else to build on. Heres a bad comparison, but it is kind of like the thing about if you could keep on cutting something in halves, and the answer is you can't, there is a smallest unit. And I guess the universe is hat thing that can't be cut up into a start or finishing place. So maybe if you think God was always there, then the universe itself is God. And since we are all byproducts of the universe, we are all made up of the essence of God.
That's my reasoning anyways...
Yeah and btw: I do somewhat believe in God, but loosely. I believe more in the rules and the ideas than in the stories ( I am Hindu).

Correct me if I'm wrong. I could of always mis-interpreted it. But isn't the law of entropy the law that dictates all elements will degenerate and turn back to their base self?

Drega · May 2005

yes, but there is always that base self the thing was always there.

edit: in essense all the universe is, is gravity. All the stars eventually will fade out, and all that will be left is gravity.

Aldaron · May 2005

Originally posted by Drega

yes, but there is always that base self the thing was always there.
edit: in essense all the universe is, is gravity. All the stars eventually will fade out, and all that will be left is gravity.

Gravity is an interesting concept.

Anyhow. Point I was making was. Of people who believe the universe existed eternally. Then well...It'd be very hard to explain, but you could be assured you aren't here. Cause after a couple decillion years. I have a feeling everything would be dust.

That in essence...is entropy.

FilipinoFury · May 2005

"Well, I believe that the universe was just always there. Why does there have to be a starting point for something? Can't it just be there, forever. There had to be something that was always there, for everything else to build on. Heres a bad comparison; it is thing about if you could keep on cutting something in halves forever, and the answer is you can't, there is a smallest unit (the atom?). And I guess the universe is (metaphorically) that thing that can't be cut up into a start or finishing place. It is that unit, that thing that was there forever. So maybe if you think God was always there, then the universe itself is God. And since we are all byproducts of the universe, we are all made up of the essence of God. We are all "Sons of God"."

That is the most logical thing and smartest thing ive ever heard. I wish i thought of that explanation.

Drega · May 2005

yes and my point was, if in fact the universe is eternal, and we are infact part of the universe. Whose to say eternity doesnt cause change in form. My point was, even after the last star of the last galaxy fades to 'dark mater' as its called. Gravity would still exsist, causing the universe to exsist, simply in a new form.

edit: another interesting concept is that in fact there is a theory new stars are born from dead ones. Now if this is in fact true, that would make every death simply birthing another life, another star. This system would seem eternal, would it not?

Puoltry · May 2005

God lets man pursue his interests with free will.All ive seen in this thread is blaming God/religion for everything wrong in the world.

Got some news for ya.

God isnt evil.

It is MY beleif that we (man) are tempted by Satan on a daily basis.It is up to us to see the evil for what it is.

Remember the movie that came out recently,Constantine?The idea behind it is that man is given a choice to commit evil or not.

Its all about free will.I BELIEVE that Satan is just around the corner whereever we go.I also beleive that there is war raging for our souls every day.It is a war we cant see and some people will try to write it off as not being real.

Religion to me is about faith.Just because God doesnt talk to me face to face doesnt make him any less real to me.

I think its sad that some people wouldnt want to be in a better place in the afterlife.

MY god is a real one that forgives man his every evil deed.All we have to do is ask for his forgiveness.Why is that so hard to accept i do not know.The younger kids on this site have a lot to deal with on a daily basis and video games are not the sole way of dealing with life.

I also think its sad when a person chooses to exhibit to the world that they are attempting to set an example that they are ridiculed for it.

Even to the point that they are called stupid.

Oh but let the latest greatest movie /game come out and its put on a pedestal.The creators of such games or movies are heralded as "genius".

I want someone to tell me what is so wrong with trying to be a person of faith?What is wrong with showing compassion?What is wrong with showing qualities that at one time were thought to be moral?

I think society in general is pathetic at this point in humankind.If its not on the internet or TV than its not worth even looking at.

Aldaron · May 2005

Originally posted by Drega

yes and my point was, if in fact the universe is eternal, and we are infact part of the universe. Whose to say eternity doesnt cause change in form. My point was, even after the last star of the last galaxy fades to 'dark mater' as its called. Gravity would still exsist, causing the universe to exsist, simply in a new form.
edit: another interesting concept is that in fact there is a theory new stars are born from dead ones. Now if this is in fact true, that would make every death simply birthing another life, another star. This system would seem eternal, would it not?

I don't think that concept is possible though if entropy is in fact absolutely true.

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