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Do you believe in a God
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Please tell me you were not referring to me. If so, what am I being ignorant about?
"if there was heaven it would get boring anywyas"
That is where you are wrong. I go to church every Sunday. Have gone every Sunday for all of my life. Every day I look forward to the next time I go to church. It hasn't gotten boring yet. There is always something to learn. What happens when we understand everything while we exist in eternity? We will spend our time with God, worshipping Him. If you truly love Him, it can never be boring to do that.
"HAHAHA We all know incest was going down. It's the bible!"
Actually, back in the beginning of the world, incest did not exist. It was not until the Israelites left slavery in Egypt when God said that incest was wrong.
Linux is free.....if your time costs nothing.
"What does this matter? The point is that you are trying to use these stones to prove your case that man and dinos lived together. The evidence of the authenticity of these stones is shaky..at best. You want to toss out known science that is firmly supported with fossil evidence because of some rock art. Absurd!"
There is more fossil evidence to support that dinosaurs lived with humans than there is otherwise. If dinosaurs lived for as long as people say they did, then how come there are not more of their bones? And why aren't they farther underground? When looking at science, you must look at it the right way in order to understand all that happened. Even then, no one will completely understand.
I will tell you something right now to those of you who don't believe anything about the Bible. I cannot prove that the Bible is correct. No one can. It takes faith to believe. If you do not have faith, you will never know whether any religion is true or not.
"Well I am not against capital punishment, but I do believe it needs to be revised, along with many laws in our system today. But to kill another man for the murder of productive members of society isnt quit the same as killing another man because he prays differently."
It is not different. A person dies. Capital punishment is a necessary thing. If a man takes another man's life away, he deserves the same treatment - death. It is the exact same thing when someone steals. They need to pay back what they stole. Murder is simply the stealing of another person's life. Since it is impossible to pay someone back to life, the person must pay with theirs.
"They also Thou shalt not steal as well. But of course no matter how minor or major everyone has had to steal something in their lifetime. And when the time came for you to do it, you justify it to be good in your own perspective. Depending on the cause. Good is in the eye of the beholder."
Not true. There is never a time someone has to steal. There is always a choice. Now granted, every has probably stolen in their lifetime except for one person.
"You're the one who sounds confused. It's like you suddenly realised at the end that you'd just described evolution and then thought "Oops! I'm not supposed to believe in evolution... I'd better put in a disclaimer.".
To answer your question, we have no idea how life originated. We aren't advanced enough as a species to comprehend such a problem, and this is one of the main things that drive us."
That was solely to prove that there was a God. Even if evolution was true, a god would have to exist. That is all I was trying to point out. Once one believes in a God, I will refute evolution from there.
What if aliens landed and made contact with earth tomorrow. Would your belief in god change? Even if these other creatures had a completely different idea in religion?
Does our faith today fail because it is challenged by other beings (human beings) who have a different concept? Why would aliens be any different? As Christians we already know (or believe) that there is other life out there besides us. I've actually considered the possibility that these angels and demons could very well be these UFO sitings and such.
Ahh, I forgot about those. But hence, another reason I find it difficult to believe. Contradictory statements in the same book.
That was told as a parable; it doesn't mean it's true word for word.
This is thought to be a place
Exactly. It is *thought* to be a place, but I've read a passage in a book that addressed that very issue. It's a parable that's not meant to be taken literally (or so I believe) - only to learn a lesson from.
You cite a collection of ancient papers that could, at a stretch of the imagination, foretell things that may or may not have happened
Read Isaiah 52:13-15 and chapter 53. Some Jews argue that this is not a foretelling of the Messiah, but I say that just as the sacrifices of the Old Testament could be related to Christ's coming sacrifice (why else were they done?), so also this passage can be related to Christ's coming life. If you don't have a Bible you can easily find an online one by searching through Google. Christ was beaten and bloodied, he *will* (I believe) come back and startle many nations. It speaks of the Lord's saving power. He was despised and rejected (also received by many). He was a man of sorrows. Some did think that he was punished for his own sin - blasphemy against God in declaring himself the Son of God. He was beaten that we might have pace and whipped and we were healed. The soldiers beat him and on Pilate's command, he was whipped. It is said that the Lord laid on him the guilt and sins of us all. He was also very silent when he was being tried and did not make much of a defense for his own position. Some would argue that he had done no wrong despite the driving out of the merchants. If he was indeed God or not even God, then driving out merchants and "thieves" from his Father's house or even from a place of worship was a commendable deed. His life was made an offering for sin and if he is God (he and his Father are one), then he indeed has many children - Christians. He also intercedes for sinners to bring them to God.
Some people choose to accept whatever the easiest to swallow answer is that they can find, like for example "An invisible man created us as the most important beings in the universe on a tiny planet revolving around a small star in the corner of the galaxy, with roughly a million other species on the planet who he put there for our amusement."
Is that concept easiest for you to swallow? Or would you rather belief in very little currently? As for your analysis, we are not the most important beings in the universe. I think the Bible states that we were made a little lower than the angels. As for the million other species developed for our own amusement - were the angels developed for our own amusement? God creates what he wants whether or not it will profit us.
Not rebuking you on the argument, but those definitions are relative. It could be the opposite that heat does not exist, only absence of cold and light does not exist, only the absence of darkness.
Well actually, what is heat? Roughly speaking, it is movement of atoms. Would you say that movement of atoms is absence of a lack of movement in atoms or would you say that the absence of motion and action is a state of rest in which nothing changes?
Its a lost cause
It hasn't been a lost cause at all. So far it's been quite informative as well as having other benefits.
In every other religious thread I've posted in the religious moderator goes lock crazy instead of hanging around to watch their belief system being dismantled.
Perhaps because it wasn't dismantled in this one yet. I've asked you a question twice now I think. I haven't seen you answer it (correct me if I'm wrong). I have acknowledged that there are possibly other truths besides a Christian/Jewish one or even a religious one. Perhaps you could Email it to me though since you've already made your last post.
You need to try and figure out whether they actually got the message from god himself
I completely question whether or not someone has gotten a message from God - even those prominent members spoken of in the Bible. When someone says that God told them to do something in this day and age, I think to myself that unless they heard a voice or had a vision, then it was likely unreal and they're just trying to do what *they* think is best. At any rate, I've already stated (if not here then somewhere else) that I'll be convinced that God wants me to do a specific thing when he appears to me and states it verbally. Of course, how often to I speak to him verbally? Most of my conversation to him is in thought - not words.
"God gave me this skill" or "God rescued me from death." BULLSHIT!
I've also thought this. I believe some cases are what people may call "luck" and other cases seem to be genuine. However, I disagree with someone when they thank God because they won the lottery and they already have enough money to easily live on beforehand. What does God care about making them physically rich? I personally thank God for what I can find to thank him - for example: I thank him for water because I believe he made it. Do I thank him for soda? I might thank him for human ingenuity and for the ingredients to make the soda, etc.
So when you think all is lost(on a mmorpg site thats humorous
I haven't seen anything yet to imply that my faith is 100% falsely invested in God. Actually, I've found out some things that could strengthen my faith or at least have it break even. All is far from lost.
Inquistion: not only by christians against muslims and jews but also done against own followers just to get their house, land, animals, etc (discounted price)
Miexon, you have to ask yourself whether or not the people were following their religion when they did such things. You can't just ignore what validity that a religion may have if the people who *say* they follow it are not following it.
i think thats enough proof of how much pain the religions have caused while struggling to gain control of the world.
I think that's enough proof of how much pain the ignorance and pride of Mankind has caused while struggling to benefit itself in this world. As I've already stated before, if you can't make a case against Christ (God), then you can't make a case against Christianity or the true followers of Christ.
thats a rather pathetic basis for a generalization of rather large group of people isnt it? thats like me saying all catholics screw 8 year old boys.
Or maybe it's like someone saying that Christianity is wrong because certain "professed Christians" did terrible deeds hundreds of years ago and hundreds of years after Christ's existence in this world.
But though those actual events were cause by men, they were caused in the name of god
Some perhaps rightly so (though I know of none that were so far), and others likely falsely so. Don't judge a religion by those who claim to be its followers - people can lie and they sometimes do for gain.
it is thing about if you could keep on cutting something in halves forever, and the answer is you can't, there is a smallest unit (the atom?)
And what is an atom composed of? I think I've heard that it's composed of electrons, protons, and neutrons. There is also something called quarks, and check out String Theory. Personally I believe that there is no end to it all. An infinite God could certainly (I believe) have created an infinite creation.
That is the most logical thing and smartest thing ive ever heard. I wish i thought of that explanation.
An infinite universe (in both directions in a manner of speaking) could truly have existed forever. An infinite God could also have created an infinite universe. Both explanations are of equal importance, and both are interesting to consider.
What is wrong with showing qualities that at one time were thought to be moral?
Because the idea of morality changes with each generation. At one time the Romans obviously thought it was moral enough to watch people get hacked limb from limb in an arena as a form of entertainment. Today we would view that as evil. The 12 tribes also thought that it was immoral to be a whoremonger, yet today some of us view that as alright. Man's idea of morality is transient. That's why we find it so hard to condone God's idea of morality (intransient) when we have drifted so apart from it. God does not grade morality on a scale. What is holy and perfect must be holy and perfect - not very good or partly good.
My point was, religion, not faith in god (which are two drasticly different things) has and will be used for horribly evil things.
Drega, man abuses many things. Truth is wonderful, but man can twist it if you've heard. It doesn't seem so far that people can get this through their heads. For example: a hatchet can be used for chopping down trees to build a home and a better existence. It can also be used to hack off someone's head. Does that mean that we should hate the hatchet and have nothing to do with it and even get rid of all hatchets? What if the hatchet had inscribed on it: Don't murder people. And yet someone used the hatchet to kill someone. This is exactly what people are doing today with Christianity.
if there was heaven it would get boring anywyas... come on its eternity eventually you will run o ut of stuff to do...
Is that because you've been there before? Is it like this life in which we are bound to the earth for 80-120 years? Is it like this life in which we suffer and die a little each day? Will looking at the presence of God (which is something that very few today have seen) become tiresome?
cant blame the relgion for it but you can blame retarts for there actions...
Vrtldave, you are the person who has made this short-term discussion worthwhile. It is good to see that at least one person does not blame the whole of religion because of a poor choice of actions taken by people who are in err and have deviated from that religion.
But, he declaired devoring the flesh of the infidels (muslims and jews) to be justified by the catholic church.
Drega, can you tell me who it was that said that "My kingdom is not of this world; if it was then my followers would fight for me"? That may not be the exact words, but you get the gist of the message, I'm sure.
So if the highest authority of the largest religion says it is ok to eat the flesh of your enemy
I don't consider the pope (a man) to be the highest authority of my beliefs and faith. I consider Christ (God) to be that authority and we've been given the scriptures to explore for ourselves and see what his will is.
Iran and Iraq wars?
Are you saying that the Iran and Iraq wars were done in the name of Christianity? Did Bush decide to start some holy crusade? I personally think it was for a number of reasons; two of them being possibly weapons of mass destruction and oil problems, but I couldn't tell you for sure of course.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Ok HanSolo I think maybe you're looking at punishment the wrong way....
No man has the right to life but God. And God Alone. That is why taking someone's life is always wrong no matter what the consequences. Even in self-defense It may seem like a lesser crime but it is still the same(Since most often then not there are alterior ways to handle things) Since you are a believer in God I will explain this using the bible. God said Do not judge, for with that judgement you shall also be judged. And Capitol Punishment is a form of Judgement. But first of all It's wrong to judge others (especially in this case where you are punishing a criminal with the same crime) And second of all It is wrong to kill.
So all in all Capitol Punishment should be and mostly is Morally wrong.
Again.. The only person with the right to take a man's life is wrong... anyone else stealing life is detracting from the will of God. Because you never know who god will use for the coming about of good. Just look at all the people he used in the bible and cherished... Not exactly your holy of holies. But that is God and he works in mysterious ways.. dont test him, for he shall test you.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
"Actually, back in the beginning of the world, incest did not exist. It was not until the Israelites left slavery in Egypt when God said that incest was wrong."
Need to clear something up before you all jump on it. God didn't just say incest was wrong then, He (for lack of a better term. Not the one I was looking for) "made" it wrong. God would not order people to populate the earth when they had to sin against Him to do it.
Please tell me you were not referring to me. If so, what am I being ignorant about?
Was talking to Baagism.
You misinterpret that passage about not judging. When Jesus says do not judge, He says do not compare other people to you. Also, God commanded that a person be killed if they killed another person. If we do not obey that commandment, then we are sinning against him.
What if aliens landed and made contact with earth tomorrow. Would your belief in god change? Even if these other creatures had a completely different idea in religion?
Let me ask you something. Let's say that the rapture occured right now. Would your belief in God change?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
Adreal, why you do continuely take one phrase out of a several page discussion and twist it out of context? This is the same formula of interpritation many people who do abuse the belief of god for horrible things. Which I was pointing out, and seemingly lost on you.
Actually the only reason why I quote only part of someone's post is because if I quoted the whole thing, then it would be unnecessarily long. If I have taken anything out of context, then please list it and where I am in error and how I am in error. I apologize if I have taken anything out of context to twist it in any fashion; it's not my intention to do so.
YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING... THAT'S RIGHT - ABSOLUTLY NOTHING
We know that the earth is here and life is on it and that many people have claimed in the past (whether true or false) to have knowledge of something or someone greater than them. The main reason why this thread was started is to ask your opinion on whether or not there is a God and perhaps even (which is what happened) start a debate which gives whatever proof or lack thereof and whatever reason you have for such a belief. Someone already said that nothing in this life is certain, and I agree with that. We do know nothing for sure, but we also know the many things that are today and must question them. Since Atheists are already making the argument against the existence of God, I see little reason to make the same argument but to say the opposite to support equally the opposite side of the argument (or the Theist's one).
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
I suppose it would, however, you completely missed my point. If intelligent life were to make contact with us, that would completely put the bible and any other religious text to rest. God made man, the bible does not state god made any other species. You can state, "Well, not everything is in the bible.", but that is just a major scapegoat for something that contradicts religion.
And to add, what if these aliens came and claimed, god is false, they visited before, they were performing a social experiement on man to see the effects of "religion". Now, more than likely this will never ever happen, but the point is to question what you know is the truth.
heres a simple one, you cut the sentance in half and ignroe the entire phrase, I said the pope is the highest authority of the catholic religion on Earth. As in a living breathing human being still of this world. You twisted it as if it I was saying there is no authority in that religion over the pope. Also, tell me how many people could actually read in between 1 ad to 1500 ad. The exploration of scripture was left to the word of the priests themselves.
Also, the inquisitions werent simply done by fanatic church goers, these were priests of the church. The servents of god that we are supposed to look to as inspiration on how to worship.
If you make that phrase closer to its original context I'll probably recognize it but as it is, it could be stated by any leader in the past 4500 years.
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
God made man, the bible does not state god made any other species.
I'm not sure about that. At any rate, the Bible implies that God made the angels - or the heavenly host. Some are for God and some are against him. What's to prevent God from keeping Satan, with his angels, to come to this world in a spaceship and say that there is no God and to deceive the world? I'm just stating this for the sake of argument. Again, it only matters what your perspective currently is.
And to add, what if these aliens came and claimed, god is false, they visited before, they were performing a social experiement on man to see the effects of "religion".
I believe I've thought of that as well. But that's not my belief and I don't think it will hurt me to believe in God unless, again, someone wants to kill me for my beliefs.
Now, more than likely this will never ever happen, but the point is to question what you know is the truth.
Indeed.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Another point why I cannot follow christianity. God is apparently supposed to know everything. He is supposed to everything form the beginning to the end, yet, he finds that he screws up and makes mistakes. He decides later, "Dam, it's not ok to have sex with your brother, sister, father, mother, etc., I better change that!". At first he wants sacrifices (animal) to appease him, then he decides, "Nah, I think I will make myself human and tell everyone i've got a better idea."