A) It doesn't matter - the game is thriving very well and the only people who are complaining are the ones on the forums
This is likely boxed sales and it's probably very accurate. However, it likely doesn't account for digital (like myself and many others) have purchased, therefore has no reflection of the actual population.
Hell - you can get it direct from Trion's website - which many people have done. There's no way to know how many they've sold from there until they publish it.
That said, for box sales (See , its probably dead on.... and actually - that's a huge number when you consider how many pre-orders and online sales they made.
A very large amount of preorders went through the Trion site. A lot of Gamestop customers also canceled their Gamestop preorders and went through Steam/D2D/Trion due to Gamestop botching the whole Preorder code thing. Same really for Amazon.com because they weren't sending out codes on time and people paniced. And a lot of Vgchartz info is based on figures from Gamestop and other smaller brick and mortar retailers - digital sales are never really figured in.
So yeah, for box sales the numbers might be spot on, but in this day and age who really buys retail boxes anymore?
That's kind of my point the OP is doing his best to say RIFT if a "failed game" by saying it only has 100k subs.
I'm saying that couldn't be further from the truth (both of them)
As of right now, on Amazons OFFICIAL SITE, -- RIFT Collectors edition is #1 for PC games sold by digital download. The regular edition download of RIFT is #3.
Not bad at all considering the robust sales Amazon enjoys. And going by what Amazon is reporting the VAST MAJORITY are buying in digital.
I just woke up and I already made a bunch of haters look like fools. Dam im good.
Enjoy.
I think that Steam is still the major digital distributor for PC games with a gargantuan market share (some say 80% but as there are no sales charts it is impossible to say). Hence, if Steam has roughly 10 - 15 000 users at peak time for Rift I'd say that will tell you more from the amount of players than, say, Amazon charts.
Personally I'd say that the estimate of only 120,000 in sales sounds a bit dubious based on Steam alone. Rift seems to have a rather steady 10,000 users logged in through Steam which means that if everyone plays roughly 2 hours a day there would have to be 120,000 users on Steam alone to pull such numbers. When you count in other sources as well you will quite easily arrive atleast double the figure mentioned.
I guess that one can with a quite high certainty say that Rift hasn't sold nor shipped million copies yet as that they would have mentioned. Therefore, the sales are not as high as some seem to suggest (100 servers with each having 20,000 - 40,000 users) but most likely not as low as vgchartz.com shows either.
The figures are ludicrous without a doubt, anyone using simple logic can see that.
If the OP is unwilling to acknowledge that, then it's obvious that his antipathy of Rift is blinding his judgement.
100 servers: for EVERY MMORPG that has been around since EQ, certainly in launch months, that means a 10-30k player population per server, with 10k on the lower end of things and 30k on the higher end.
Full queues means 2-4k concurrent players.
Yet according to these figures that'd mean that a server on average has 1300 players in total. Not playing at the same time. No, total players for each server. Thus totally ignoring all the current info about MMORPG's and server capacities of the past 10 years.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So you assumed since I said "40% and higher" its definitely just 40? Shure you are just a messenger and not trying to put more value on these charts than they have?
They are only reputable to be far off from the official numbers and inaccurate. Thats it. Why keep insisting on them?
They are more reputable than you, so i'll stick with them.
True as that may be, nobody is more reputable than simple math.
But i don't see simple math making any statements about Rift sales.
That's because math doesn't work that way. You make the statements using simple math. And people have been doing that, in this very thread. From where I'm standing those look more plausible, and you've just chosen to ignore them.
Those numbers seem to be considerably low considering they they had a ton of queue times for many servers at one point. I could see maybe 500k but not 127k like they are suggesting.
Have they published a number for what signifies a server as full?
i think this might be the easiest way to estimate how many copies of Rift have been sold. Wasn't there another thread that dealt with the subject?
Going by guesstimates of some website, in this day and age of massive (vague) digital downloads is just making me side-eye all of this.
Just wanted to say i got this game 2 days ago... basically becouse i had friends play it and they all said it`s good. So far i do agree with them, it`s so polished i would have never guessed it just released and the combat is fluid.
Also pvp queue is quite fast (from instant during the day to 5 minutes at 4am - GMT +2)
There is little to hate about this game... rifts are also fun so far, i`d say a very good first impression.
Also the price, 9 euro/month is a good deal, and they only charge me after 30 days so i can cancel the 6 months sub if i don`t like it untill then.
Servers are pretty much high pop with 1-2 medium and 1-2 low...
Anyway, it`s just my opinion...
You made a far more constructive feedback than many of the trolls around this forum. I salute you for that.
- You say that because he said the game was good -
Okay, you have 24 hours to make a more constructive feedback saying how bad is the game for you... besides the "Game is a clone because it just is... buawaaaaaaa give my old pacifier back!' or the classic 'I played, didn't like it and I got sooo offended, can I have my money back?'
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
doesnt matter how many sales they had, its the retention thats important. All new games sell a ton on launch. but the good games will keep them after month 1 or 3.
Here's a fact. On one side i have a popular gaming website that built it's reputation by accurateness of it's charts, and on another - an angry fanboy's faith. Who should i trust ?
Well, what you probably shouldn't be trusting is your own ability to interpret data or use reliable sources. Aren't VGChartz' numbers just predictions based on a mashup of existing numbers? Do they figure in WalMart? Digital sales such as D2D, Steam and direct from developer?
Ask him. One would have to, because the site really doesn't state where the data is from. Does the site even define "unit"?
What's funny is the people who worship at Brett's altar are usually the same people that are first in line to call Sir Bruce a hack and reject his data.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What's funny is the people who worship at Brett's altar are usually the same people that are first in line to call Sir Bruce a hack and reject his data.
I have no idea who Brett and Bruce are, but the figures defy common sense and logic, and that's why I find them hard to believe.
Those figures defy any knowledge about MMORPG's of the past 10 years and common server capacity and player populations of MMORPG's around.
According to those figures a Rift server would have only 1300 players attached to it. Not playing at the same time. No, 1300 player accounts in total.
Where every other medium to high populated server on every other MMORPG easily has 10k+ players attached to each server.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I just added 40%. And dont shoot the messenger. It's not my fault the sales are dissapointing.
Werthe, I really would rethink the accuracy of those numbers.
Look, I don't believe that Rift is going to retain huge amounts of people on the current content alone (and I'm saying this as a subscriber who is having fun) but those numbers are not complete even close. Considering at one point that lineage 2 had 90K+ subs with about 7 servers and it didn't feel very full in the cities and high traffic areas.
Those numbers are way off.
As another suggested, "500K+" would seem far more accurate. Or basically consderably more than 127K~.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Actually since the chart doesnt have a descriptive legend i can believe its correct under the following condictions.
This is the total number of boxed sales during the first week of release, this does not count digital orders or paid in full prelaunch sales. I am willing to bet the latter consists of 500k-700k in sales.
Btw, this leads me to another thing. mmogawd and I made little bet about Rift Sales in the first week. Contents of this little agreement of hours can be seen here:
BUT, in the the spirit of good forum relations, mmogawd, i relieve you from your obligation.
Methinks this poster doth obsess too much.
I love how the people who say they don't like Rift continue to waste so much of their time trying to prove the game is a failure in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Quote imaginary numbers all you want, they don't change the fact that my server, one of the later opened ones, is still packed with players from morning to night. They won't change the fact that I'm seeing one or two new faces on our vent channel a day as people from the Wow side of our guild are slowly creeping in to see what all the fuss is about. Most of them players who swore they weren't going to bother with some damn new wow clone since they already had wow. Gooble Gobble Gooble Gobble One Of Us One Of Us.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
As it has been stated, simple math refutes these findings. From what I understand, I'll run through the math very quick. Those who disagree, please show it with numbers.
The numbers that are based upon speculation, will be denoted with *, these can change by a small %.
The OP claims Rift has sold 127,000 copies. So let's use launch numbers to test this.
Rift launched with 30 servers from what I can find. (More were added shortly afterward)
Each server reached 'Full' Population at the moment it was launched, or very close to it.
Let us assume each server holds 1500* people each for launch, due to overcrowding in the starting zones.
Ques reached up into the 4000's for them moments later. Let us assume that number is 3000* for arguments sake.
So, by simple math, this is how the equation works. Servers*Population Online+Population in Que. Or 30(1500+3000)
This equals out to be 135,000 Players. This is on Day 1. Hour 1. By this math (And it can be off by several % due to approximations) Rift already has more Players than the OP says have even bought the game. And this isn't even factoring those who bought it later on in the week.
Feel free to dispute, but as I said, Please use numbers to back up your arguments, or they will probably not be taken seriously.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less. Furthermore, after launch sales, what happens to those numbers? At the 3 month mark they usually DROP. Meaning, people QUIT after playing around with the game and their subs expire. It is part of the MMORPG pattern.
Only 1 mmorpg I can think of in the last 6 years has managed to increase their sub count past the 3 month mark and that is WoW. No other mmorpg shows signs of doing that any time soon. In fact, Rift is showing the same signs as all the ther mmorpgs that dwindle between 3-6 months into a very small niche player base that usually drives new people away yet manages to keep the game barely alive.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less. Furthermore, after launch sales, what happens to those numbers? At the 3 month mark they usually DROP. Meaning, people QUIT after playing around with the game and their subs expire. It is part of the MMORPG pattern.
Only 1 mmorpg I can think of in the last 6 years has managed to increase their sub count past the 3 month mark and that is WoW. No other mmorpg shows signs of doing that any time soon. In fact, Rift is showing the same signs as all the ther mmorpgs that dwindle between 3-6 months into a very small niche player base that usually drives new people away yet manages to keep the game barely alive.
Make it two MMOs as Eve Online has grown steadily over the years and pretty much defied the usual patterns.
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
It's a cruel world...
People forget we are talking about games sometime and think this is their life... like it DEPENDS on them to destroy a game's reputation (like they could... *rolls eyes*).
Why they do it, no one knows... For me, I see a attempt of attention, like my dog does when she wants to call for me. I shush her but still, she barks louder. I stop talking and focus on the PC, she shuts up after 10-20 seconds.
I don't know why people just can't go to a forum like this one, say what did or didn't like and just walk away and leave the other players to think for themselves.
I mean, no one is paying them to do that... is it fanboys trying to make people come back to their games so they don't fell alone after years of the same crap? I really don't know. But the best option is to say: "They are idiots" for doing whatever they are doing (unless if they are ACTUALLY getting payed... if so, they still are failing)
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last. |BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Umm, they admit they have no way of tracking digital sales. They are usualy wrong by a large margin and correct it if it's over twenty points. VG is better at tracking console sales. They doa horrible job of tracking PC sales because of the shift to digital sales.
Here's a fact. On one side i have a popular gaming website that built it's reputation by accurateness of it's charts, and on another - an angry fanboy's faith. Who should i trust ?
They admit in their own FAQ they are not tracking PC sales well at all. Digital sales information is not available to them and the boxed copies are guesswork. Their margin of error on PC sales is so huge it's almost pointless to cite them as a source.
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
It does make you wonder.
If any future MMO developer took a snap shot of the doom and gloom that is always spouted here around new releases then tbh I would expect them to just walk away and not bother creating anything new, nobody wants it.
Rift produced a solid game, game launch was extremely good, it's got fun features and plenty of places to explore and adventure in, yet ppl still have to come here and tell those playing that it's crap, it's not selling, it's a clone of some other game, the list is endless.
To the nay sayers get a life, to those playing Rift, enjoy what you've got, it's a darn good game and it's definately worth the money.
Comments
That's kind of my point
the OP is doing his best to say RIFT if a "failed game" by saying it only has 100k subs.
I'm saying that couldn't be further from the truth (both of them)
I think that Steam is still the major digital distributor for PC games with a gargantuan market share (some say 80% but as there are no sales charts it is impossible to say). Hence, if Steam has roughly 10 - 15 000 users at peak time for Rift I'd say that will tell you more from the amount of players than, say, Amazon charts.
Personally I'd say that the estimate of only 120,000 in sales sounds a bit dubious based on Steam alone. Rift seems to have a rather steady 10,000 users logged in through Steam which means that if everyone plays roughly 2 hours a day there would have to be 120,000 users on Steam alone to pull such numbers. When you count in other sources as well you will quite easily arrive atleast double the figure mentioned.
I guess that one can with a quite high certainty say that Rift hasn't sold nor shipped million copies yet as that they would have mentioned. Therefore, the sales are not as high as some seem to suggest (100 servers with each having 20,000 - 40,000 users) but most likely not as low as vgchartz.com shows either.
The figures are ludicrous without a doubt, anyone using simple logic can see that.
If the OP is unwilling to acknowledge that, then it's obvious that his antipathy of Rift is blinding his judgement.
100 servers: for EVERY MMORPG that has been around since EQ, certainly in launch months, that means a 10-30k player population per server, with 10k on the lower end of things and 30k on the higher end.
Full queues means 2-4k concurrent players.
Yet according to these figures that'd mean that a server on average has 1300 players in total. Not playing at the same time. No, total players for each server. Thus totally ignoring all the current info about MMORPG's and server capacities of the past 10 years.
Right.
Nonsense.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's because math doesn't work that way. You make the statements using simple math. And people have been doing that, in this very thread. From where I'm standing those look more plausible, and you've just chosen to ignore them.
i think this might be the easiest way to estimate how many copies of Rift have been sold. Wasn't there another thread that dealt with the subject?
Going by guesstimates of some website, in this day and age of massive (vague) digital downloads is just making me side-eye all of this.
Carry on debating. You'll get nowhere.
You made a far more constructive feedback than many of the trolls around this forum. I salute you for that.
- You say that because he said the game was good -
Okay, you have 24 hours to make a more constructive feedback saying how bad is the game for you... besides the "Game is a clone because it just is... buawaaaaaaa give my old pacifier back!' or the classic 'I played, didn't like it and I got sooo offended, can I have my money back?'
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
In my guild forums a person with some game industry experiance posted that Rift sales was estimated at 750k take it for what its worth.
Trion could help and release the bloody sales in total
Other sources other than trion will always be wrong/lacking
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
doesnt matter how many sales they had, its the retention thats important. All new games sell a ton on launch. but the good games will keep them after month 1 or 3.
Well, what you probably shouldn't be trusting is your own ability to interpret data or use reliable sources. Aren't VGChartz' numbers just predictions based on a mashup of existing numbers? Do they figure in WalMart? Digital sales such as D2D, Steam and direct from developer?
Ask him. One would have to, because the site really doesn't state where the data is from. Does the site even define "unit"?
What's funny is the people who worship at Brett's altar are usually the same people that are first in line to call Sir Bruce a hack and reject his data.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I have no idea who Brett and Bruce are, but the figures defy common sense and logic, and that's why I find them hard to believe.
Those figures defy any knowledge about MMORPG's of the past 10 years and common server capacity and player populations of MMORPG's around.
According to those figures a Rift server would have only 1300 players attached to it. Not playing at the same time. No, 1300 player accounts in total.
Where every other medium to high populated server on every other MMORPG easily has 10k+ players attached to each server.
That's why those figures don't make sense.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Numbers can't be right... Only 20K copies in EMEAA..? They say Europe is bigger as market than the US, so I bet we (EU) bought 100K copies as well.
Of does VG only have US sale-numbers?
Werthe, I really would rethink the accuracy of those numbers.
Look, I don't believe that Rift is going to retain huge amounts of people on the current content alone (and I'm saying this as a subscriber who is having fun) but those numbers are not complete even close. Considering at one point that lineage 2 had 90K+ subs with about 7 servers and it didn't feel very full in the cities and high traffic areas.
Those numbers are way off.
As another suggested, "500K+" would seem far more accurate. Or basically consderably more than 127K~.
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Actually since the chart doesnt have a descriptive legend i can believe its correct under the following condictions.
This is the total number of boxed sales during the first week of release, this does not count digital orders or paid in full prelaunch sales. I am willing to bet the latter consists of 500k-700k in sales.
Methinks this poster doth obsess too much.
I love how the people who say they don't like Rift continue to waste so much of their time trying to prove the game is a failure in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Quote imaginary numbers all you want, they don't change the fact that my server, one of the later opened ones, is still packed with players from morning to night. They won't change the fact that I'm seeing one or two new faces on our vent channel a day as people from the Wow side of our guild are slowly creeping in to see what all the fuss is about. Most of them players who swore they weren't going to bother with some damn new wow clone since they already had wow. Gooble Gobble Gooble Gobble One Of Us One Of Us.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
As it has been stated, simple math refutes these findings. From what I understand, I'll run through the math very quick. Those who disagree, please show it with numbers.
The numbers that are based upon speculation, will be denoted with *, these can change by a small %.
The OP claims Rift has sold 127,000 copies. So let's use launch numbers to test this.
Rift launched with 30 servers from what I can find. (More were added shortly afterward)
Each server reached 'Full' Population at the moment it was launched, or very close to it.
Let us assume each server holds 1500* people each for launch, due to overcrowding in the starting zones.
Ques reached up into the 4000's for them moments later. Let us assume that number is 3000* for arguments sake.
So, by simple math, this is how the equation works. Servers*Population Online+Population in Que. Or 30(1500+3000)
This equals out to be 135,000 Players. This is on Day 1. Hour 1. By this math (And it can be off by several % due to approximations) Rift already has more Players than the OP says have even bought the game. And this isn't even factoring those who bought it later on in the week.
Feel free to dispute, but as I said, Please use numbers to back up your arguments, or they will probably not be taken seriously.
I also disagree with the validity of these numbers. They have to be higher. However I also agree they are no where near a million.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
Probably not a million, though around 500k-750k is probably reasonable, which is more than a healthy number of box sales. Its the retention that matters, and it wouldn't need much retention to be the second or third most successful na mmo.
Why are people so keen to try and undermine a new game when it comes out. I can't help but wonder what Werth's modus operandi is ... I dont play Rift, I tried it in beta and its defitely not for me, but I hope it does well and establishes itself as a solid and successful MMO. After all, the more choice we have, the more the developers will try harder to capture our business.
To try and undermine a game because you dont like it is staggeringly selfish, as there are plenty who do like it and who are we to stop or undermine their fun??
500k-750k?
ROFL, not even close. The reality is, whether you WANT to believe it or not (denial mode?), is that their subs are far far less. Furthermore, after launch sales, what happens to those numbers? At the 3 month mark they usually DROP. Meaning, people QUIT after playing around with the game and their subs expire. It is part of the MMORPG pattern.
Only 1 mmorpg I can think of in the last 6 years has managed to increase their sub count past the 3 month mark and that is WoW. No other mmorpg shows signs of doing that any time soon. In fact, Rift is showing the same signs as all the ther mmorpgs that dwindle between 3-6 months into a very small niche player base that usually drives new people away yet manages to keep the game barely alive.
Make it two MMOs as Eve Online has grown steadily over the years and pretty much defied the usual patterns.
It's a cruel world...
People forget we are talking about games sometime and think this is their life... like it DEPENDS on them to destroy a game's reputation (like they could... *rolls eyes*).
Why they do it, no one knows... For me, I see a attempt of attention, like my dog does when she wants to call for me. I shush her but still, she barks louder. I stop talking and focus on the PC, she shuts up after 10-20 seconds.
I don't know why people just can't go to a forum like this one, say what did or didn't like and just walk away and leave the other players to think for themselves.
I mean, no one is paying them to do that... is it fanboys trying to make people come back to their games so they don't fell alone after years of the same crap? I really don't know. But the best option is to say: "They are idiots" for doing whatever they are doing (unless if they are ACTUALLY getting payed... if so, they still are failing)
I see a universe where unicorns fly... and my mother-in-law is in a grave at last.
|BEST UNIVERSE EVA AWARD|
Umm, they admit they have no way of tracking digital sales. They are usualy wrong by a large margin and correct it if it's over twenty points. VG is better at tracking console sales. They doa horrible job of tracking PC sales because of the shift to digital sales.
They admit in their own FAQ they are not tracking PC sales well at all. Digital sales information is not available to them and the boxed copies are guesswork. Their margin of error on PC sales is so huge it's almost pointless to cite them as a source.
It does make you wonder.
If any future MMO developer took a snap shot of the doom and gloom that is always spouted here around new releases then tbh I would expect them to just walk away and not bother creating anything new, nobody wants it.
Rift produced a solid game, game launch was extremely good, it's got fun features and plenty of places to explore and adventure in, yet ppl still have to come here and tell those playing that it's crap, it's not selling, it's a clone of some other game, the list is endless.
To the nay sayers get a life, to those playing Rift, enjoy what you've got, it's a darn good game and it's definately worth the money.