Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Do you believe in a God
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
and also with the thing on aliens..... what im curious about is why dont they come and land? you always just see them hovering in the air just doing nothing but flying around. i think its just goverment stuff and they just keep on denying stuff. because i mean come on would the goverment shoot the hell out of something thats in area 51 or something thats not theirs? i dont think i believe in aliens because the goverment would do something about it because they would get all scared. my opinion is that it's all the goverment and they're hiding stuff. and do you know why they are hiding things? well because if it is infact them then they wouldnt want other countries and people to know beause then they would want they're hands on it. i think the goverment is trying really high sophisticated air crafts for military sh*t.
remember, a very wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn
burning,
Re: the monkeys. Evolution works different than I suppose you expect. Of course their are still monkeys just as theyre are now humans. Evolution is a reaction to enviornment stimulus...so it is possible for a species to evole 2, 3, 5, etc. different ways. In our case, we were seperated from monkeys at a certain point in our evolution, I am not sure the exact time...but we moved off in a path to develope our brains and some of them continued to evolve for simply physical survival. Neither of our ways was better at the time, but as we continued to evolve and they continued to evolve in their way, we eventually became the more dominant species. There are also times, when a species easily becomes more dominant, sometimes demolishing one or all of the other genetic mutations. Also, about continuing to evolve... both us and monkeys and every other thing on this planet continues to evolve. In some cases monkeys are becoming more intelligent like us. In our case, we are still evolving parts of our biological structure, we are losing our small toe within a few generations, more people are being born without the capacity for growing wisdom teeth now...and that number will continue to increase, our appendix will also dissappear in a relatively short amount of time (though I am not sure what the predictions are). All animals are all evolving, and will continue to do so... read any science magazine on any animal species and it will probably talk about how they are currently evolving. The best example of evolution is in smaller organisms like viruses...because they can change so rapidly... like the Flu... it has a full evolution yearly.
Food for thought though, our last stage of evolution (neanderthal man) our brains were actually larger and more developed. Why do you think this happened? Personally, I think it had to do with outside manipulation. Our earliest civilizations all worshipped the same dieties... indian religion, sumerian, greek... some were totally isolated from others, but they shared the same religious tales and stories... such as the comparative figure of zeus in each religion, at one time had an epic battle with a serpant god and was aided only by one female god (athena and comparative) and then married her later. I think those dieties were actually living beings, because it seems aparent what they did really happened. Why would they want to manipulate our brains to be smaller? A more obiediant race perhaps, who knows.
Also, to everyone who says evolution is impossible because of how perfect it is... you need to read a book. That is EXACTLY the essence of evolution. What we are is exactly what we have mutated to be that has worked most efficiently...thats how it works. If you think this is perfect, remember that we are just some species...that only physically appeals to us...because we are just as wear to a dog as a dog is to us. Inside we are goo, and have very minimal symmetry with random organs here and there. So, we are exactly what we need to be to survive... and with evolution bad traits are thrown out and good traits are kept... that is why we developed as streamline as we currently are...but we still have pointless organs just floating around in us...like our appendix...so we still have evolution to do. Unfortunately, with out new age of humanity, we no longer have the protection of mother nature to sort out the good and bad. We keep all genetic mutations alive...we are already paying for it... and we will continue to do so...in more and more horrible ways...until people figure it out... if there is anyone with the brain capacity to figure it out by then. So yes, the human species in the only species on the planet that is mentally deevolving now and our endangering our physical evolution as well, good job freaking humanitist idiots.
religion and "god" are the opium of the masses.. a man made idea to answer questions that man cant answer. but on that same note some need religion .. for whatever void they feel they need to fill.
but do i believe in a "god".. a definite no..
but a "higher intelligence".. hope so.. i hope there is something more intelligent than the lameness on this misbegotten planet.
a good book to read is: Robert Anton Wilsons "the cosmic trigger and the final secret of the illuminati".. it has alot of rational thought.. alot about what is being speculated on in this very topic.
oh well
be good
kyli
Well, I think the fact of the matter is is that you can't prove that there is a God. You either believe in it or you don't; it is a personal choice. You can't force your beliefs on someone else. But the thing is, once you get down to it, most religions teach the same thing. They tell you to be good, to lead a good life, dont hurt others, etc. etc. If you just lead a good life, I'm pretty sure you will be fine after you die, no matter what religion you believe in (or if you believe in none at all). The bottom line is, just lead a good life, and you will be safe.
WOW I was gonna post in this topic something worthwhile but after 72 pages the only answer this debate has spawned is that there is no answer, needless to say that conclussion could have been drawn within the first 2 pages. Wait I got something to debate, "If a tree falls down and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?"
Setekh. I think what he was saying (I could be wrong) is that if evolution is real. Why isn't all of creation a blur?
Why isn't there Neanderthal man, cro-magnon man, as well as the other sub-species, or "missing links" as it is commonly phrased. There would be millions of species, thousands of humanoid like beings. So where'd they go?
Why haven't other species evolved, like dolphins? Or parrots?
And by golly...I really wanna know why we don't have ents!
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
i belive but i still have my doubts god exists i am a beliver
3 religions are connected by 1 god
christianaty islam and judasim they all talk about the same thin just diffent views of it like for me and SOME chirstians jesus and GOD and holy sprit are the same thing for some the son of god... islam thinks jesus is a prophet like mohamed jews think hes a prophet too and they all have ABraham in common ... so it has to be true
I believe in god to the farthest extent possible.
And anyone who does'nt, im not going to look down on..i just look at those as a lost faith that can and will be revived as soon as they die and find out how wrong they were.But to awnser your question:
Y!!!!!
E!!!!!
S!!!!!
Game Play>> RS-AQ-continuum-LF2
Game Play>> RS-AQ-continuum-LF2
Firstly.... evolution happens on such a long time scale in most case and in such subtle ways it is difficult even for a total believer in Darwinism such as myself to get my head round it. Im not surprised at all that people who are sceptical of it find many holes that challenge their understanding and therefore belief in it beyond ther ability to follow its principles. I find exactly the same thing with religion. Viva La Difference.... thats what this thread is ultimately about.
Neanderthal man like all evolitionary examples, was nothing more than a product of his environment. The environment demanded a more physically developed human to survive. With the "enlightenment" of other human species and the move toward hunting with our brains instead of our brawn the more sucessful human species began to dominate. We are not even from the same part of the family tree as Neanderthals. Indeed we effectively out competed them into extiction.
Today we see humans again becoming evolutionary products of their environments with 2 major ailments exploding in their occurence. World Health Organisation doctors report that the incidence of chronic Asthma and Food Alleregies resulting and Anephelactic Shock and death have increased from tens of cases per hundred thousand people to hundreds of cases in only 10-20 years. This has only happened in developed western countries. The theory (which I subscribe to ) is that we have made our daily environments so hygenic that it stunts the development of our immune systems by denying us exposure to everyday triggers for normal immune system development. This combined with a dramatic reduction in breast feeding (mmmm breasts
) has reduced the transfer of immuno essential triggers from mothers to children in critical early development. In developing countries this has not happened, because they still live in "un hygenic" environments and breastfeed so their immune systems develop normally. We have engineered ourselves a time compression of evolution and in only 1 or 2 generations changed the nature of our bodies dramatically. This is evolution at work in its most classic form!! We have created an environment and lifestyle that sends messages to our developing bodies that we dont need a strong imune system.... guess what.... our bodies respond....
As for the so called "missing links" or "transitional fossils" its important to remember that most evolution occurs from mutation of one form or another. Since only the successful mutations go on to be population significant, it is actually exactly right that missing links and transitional fossils should be extremely rare to the point of almost never being seen. They represent only a tiny unsucessful portion of that species population tree over time. As usual.... everything is as it should be if you just understand why!
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Neanderthal man and cro-magnon man are extinct.
The United Nations Environment Programme's (UNEP) Global Biodiversity Assessment is often cited, which estimates the number of described species at approximately 1.75 million. A study done by prominent biologist E.O. Wilson and others estimate known species at approximately 1.4 million. Another more recent study estimates the number at approximately 1.5 million.
Why would there be thousands of humanoids?
Scientists have described and given scientific names to about 920,000 species of insects in the world, which represents almost 85% of all known animal species. For comparison, only about 4,000 of the known animal species are mammals, man being one of these. There are more species of dragonflies than mammals, and almost as many species of cockroaches (3,500 species). There are about 9,000 species of birds, but almost twice as many species of butterflies.
Evolution of dolphins: http://tursiops.org/dolfin/guide/dolphinevo.html
And we do have ents. In our fantasies, like some other things.
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
Drastic changes in the enviroment...But unless it covered the whole earth. They'd just migrate. And if it did, the species that survived would of already been acclimated to that climate, causing their survival. Then afterwards, wouldn't they be drawn to their natural climate?
Razor, what you describe is what I'd more or less consider something akin to anemia for lack of consumption of foods that contain iron. Not evolution. Just poor health.
Boulderdash. Reason why by my logic there would be thousands of humanoid species is because if the theory of evolution was fact, then wouldn't that mean there would be many "missing links" wandering about? Because by natural selection standards, they'd outlive apes/monkies, because by definition, they are superior.
Oh. And could someone please answer me by the theoretical evolutionary timeline, in comparison of time did plants and the first oxygen breathing creature come into existence?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
No, And ill list many reasons why.
1. God is a theory, just as evolution is.
2. The Bible was written by the hand of man, if there is a god then his words could have been mad eout to be something completely different.
3. The Bible contains serveral notions of racism, sexism and general prejeduces. Which are currently being used
agianst gay people and have been used in the past agianst the blacks and women.
4. God is only one of the several thousand Gods and Goddess which have been considered the absolutely truth.
5. Religion in general is more of a brainwashing system, by inhibating your actions through a all powerful figure usually a god.
6. The arguements presented by Evangelicals are weak and filled with bigotry, Such as the arguement that Gays are immoral beings, and Such as the arguement that Infidels are immoral beings.
Religion was a way of organizing civilazation and starting man on a more technological path. however religion is no longer needed, in merely inhibates peopls actions and cuases several wars today.
MMORPG's ive played
Earth and Beyond: shut down *tear*
Jaiden TE lvl 150 +++
Chikira JE lvl 128
*World of Warcraft: current
Tarion lvl 60 hunter
Anorus lvl 22 Warrior
*Vendetta-Online: inactive
Kioal Darkblade 8/8/5/10/9 Overall lvl 40
"in-development open beta"
Drastic changes in the enviroment...But unless it covered the whole earth. They'd just migrate. And if it did, the species that survived would of already been acclimated to that climate, causing their survival. Then afterwards, wouldn't they be drawn to their natural climate?
Razor, what you describe is what I'd more or less consider something akin to anemia for lack of consumption of foods that contain iron. Not evolution. Just poor health.
Boulderdash. Reason why by my logic there would be thousands of humanoid species is because if the theory of evolution was fact, then wouldn't that mean there would be many "missing links" wandering about? Because by natural selection standards, they'd outlive apes/monkies, because by definition, they are superior.
Oh. And could someone please answer me by the theoretical evolutionary timeline, in comparison of time did plants and the first oxygen breathing creature come into existence?
Alderon, you make it al sound so simple.... It is not! (also please read posts before you respond to them because I hate repeating myself)
If your environment changed drastically, would you just migrate ? What if you didnt have the money to do it ? What if you could not swim thousands of miles or fly ? You would of course perish. If there was only one or a few of you, do you think people would be likely or unlikely to discover your remains in 3 million years time ? If there were millions of you do you think people would be more, or less likely to discover the remains of some or many of you in 3 million years time ? I think even you can see the logical answer yes/no ?
This is why common species who have enjoyed success in the past leave many fossils and unsucessful species leave few. Transitional fossils or missing links represent the less successful species. I dont see what it so hard to grasp here. In all of eveolution science this is the thing most sceptics get past early and move onto the harder questions. Like where did the spark of life start from in the first place? Was it merely chemical reactions or did it require a trigger we do not yet understand ? Dont get stuck on the easy stuff or you will never get to the really interesting bits.
Im glad you find the transitions our species is currently going through so simple to explain as an iron deficiency. So your saying that people in developing nations with vastly inferior diets and access to proper nutrition and medicine and who are not showing these changes in their biology, have higher levels of iron in their blood and less anemia, than well fed westerners who are experiencing this phenomena ??
Perhaps you could impart your expert opinion to the hundreds of scientists with decades of training and research on this topic and save them some work. Go do some reading before you brush off complex questions with trival thoughtless answers.
Being superior in one environment does not imply nor guarantee superiority in another. If you take a fish out of water it changes from a creature superior in its environment into a meal. If you take modern humans well dapated to their environment and put them in 2000ft of water they also become food. Its not a difficult concept to understand. The environment has changed a lot over the past few million years alone. Some species have adapated (us) some have not (other humanoids). We remain, they are gone, just think of the fish and the water and youll get it.
Do you think fossils are some sort of global conspiracy by scientists to discredit regligious people ? Do you think they were planted by someone ? If not why do you find it so hard to conceive of the FACT that species come and go ? We have come, depending on how we manage our environment we may well go. If we sit back and expect some "deity" to do everything for us we will certainly go.
There are mulitple evolutionary timelines and theories. Posting it all here would be a waste of space since you can just goto google and look it up yourself.
The thing you REALLY need to understand is this.
Evolutionary science like all science is NOT AN ANSWER! It is a series of continuing questions followed by posible hypothesis which are then tested. The ones that survive the tests are re-questioned and tested again and so the process goes on. This is how science works. It does not even claim nor attempt to provide definitive answers on questions as big as evolution and human existence. It simply asks questions and tests the answers on small parts of these questions in order to form a clearer picture of the likely span of answers to the big picture items.
The reason religious people have so much difficulty accpeting scientific theories is that they DONT provide answers. Religious people lean toward religion because it claims to provide definitaive answers in neat little packages wrapped in love. That is much easier to handle for some people. You can just stop thinking about the big questions and go back to watching TV or skateboarding, comfortable in the knowledge that God has it all under control.
If only life was as simple as Gods followers.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
methane47
"Scientists have found Sand and sea shells on the tops of mountains"
- due to plate tectonics... google it, its not in the bible along with a great many things.
As for the "The very fact that so many poeple refer to it... proves it's existance"
- belief in any thing by however many people does not in any way shape or form make a thing true or real or infer a collective wisdom which in itself proves the existance or non existance of anything.
Credible, reliable, reproducible, e v i d e n c e (<-important word) allows us to form a theory which can then be tested and examined over time.
Here are a few errors with the biblical story of the flood for your enjoyment http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
WEll then you must not believe anything then, Because that is exaclty how all knowledge in the world works.
History is called "Commonly Accepted Fact"
Science is just "Theories that have been accepted as truth by other scientists"
Religion is Truth that has been accepted by people who believe in such.
And you are right... It doesn't matter how many people believe in something, that doesn't make it true..
I just hope you apply that to your own life.. If you want to judge me by those standards. You're right I dont care who believes in God, Because I believe... Now why do You believe in everything else?
Also Scientist have also found sand and sea shells in places nowhere near the edges of the earth's plates. Where their only explanation is that it had to be deposited by a flood. But when they find sand and other material of the same type, and the same age, the same number of layers under the surface of the ground.. That tells me there must have been something that did that. I'll let you decide what that was.
My credible, reliable, reproducible evidence is that I am alive.. I constantly wake up everymorning, able to think, love, give, recieve... everyday... and Why do I keep waking up. Why did my roommate who tried to slit his wrists with a razor, couldn't even break the skin.... Somethings in life, sure you can take them as coincidents, but others... the ones where science can't explain... Where a guy marries a woman and for ten years they are together when he finds out he has aids... But She some how does not. Where my friend is still alive today after 22 years, even after having severe sickle Cell disease, but she doesn't even need medicine. When Cancer, a bunch of cells that never stop dividing... all of a sudden dissappears, No tumor no nothing, Where a person doesn't need tablets to get over depression, Where my mother is bedridden for 8 months with me because her water was leaking out, delivered me premature and I have no health deficiencies, Where a Metal Gate falls on me and all i have is a 3 inch scar. Where I'm riding down a hill on my skateboard when a car drives across and stops just when I'm sliding underneath the car inbetween the wheels, Where I run with a knife and I fall and it sticks in my neck, but I just pull it out and it doesn't even bleed, Where me as a 1 year old child falls down a 2 story flight of stairs, And just laughs when my mother picks me off the ground.
Somethings are Coincidence.....
Others .... is the reason I believe.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
WEll then you must not believe anything then, Because that is exaclty how all knowledge in the world works.
History is called "Commonly Accepted Fact"
Science is just "Theories that have been accepted as truth by other scientists"
Religion is Truth that has been accepted by people who believe in such.
And you are right... It doesn't matter how many people believe in something, that doesn't make it true..
I just hope you apply that to your own life.. If you want to judge me by those standards. You're right I dont care who believes in God, Because I believe... Now why do You believe in everything else?
Also Scientist have also found sand and sea shells in places nowhere near the edges of the earth's plates. Where their only explanation is that it had to be deposited by a flood. But when they find sand and other material of the same type, and the same age, the same number of layers under the surface of the ground.. That tells me there must have been something that did that. I'll let you decide what that was.
My credible, reliable, reproducible evidence is that I am alive.. I constantly wake up everymorning, able to think, love, give, recieve... everyday... and Why do I keep waking up. Why did my roommate who tried to slit his wrists with a razor, couldn't even break the skin.... Somethings in life, sure you can take them as coincidents, but others... the ones where science can't explain... Where a guy marries a woman and for ten years they are together when he finds out he has aids... But She some how does not. Where my friend is still alive today after 22 years, even after having severe sickle Cell disease, but she doesn't even need medicine. When Cancer, a bunch of cells that never stop dividing... all of a sudden dissappears, No tumor no nothing, Where a person doesn't need tablets to get over depression, Where my mother is bedridden for 8 months with me because her water was leaking out, delivered me premature and I have no health deficiencies, Where a Metal Gate falls on me and all i have is a 3 inch scar. Where I'm riding down a hill on my skateboard when a car drives across and stops just when I'm sliding underneath the car inbetween the wheels, Where I run with a knife and I fall and it sticks in my neck, but I just pull it out and it doesn't even bleed, Where me as a 1 year old child falls down a 2 story flight of stairs, And just laughs when my mother picks me off the ground.
Somethings are Coincidence.....
Others .... is the reason I believe.
Boy you got the crap kicked out of you as a child. *no offense* but I thought I had I was lucky with amount of times the emergancy room saw me.
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...
Ugh. I lost my post. But the point I was making was that you're not going to find a polar bear roaming around in texas.
What?
This place is full of tree-huggers and tofu fartn' faeries...