Trion hasn't released sales numbers yet. So where did that site get it's data?
Here's what the quoted website says:
"Well unfortunately if we were to release detailed information at this stage on exactly where we get our data from then everyone would jump on the bandwagon and competitors would likely get their cheque books out and try to block anyone from providing us with any more data. Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers."
Damage control it all you wan't. They are always close to official sales numbers.
If frequent inaccurancies of +40% and higher from official sales numbers means "close to official" or "accurate" to you, you have to tell that, because using your own definitions far off from the general consesus can bring up missunderstandings.
Ok then. Instead of 127k, Trion sold 177800 copies.
Said whom? Reknown innaracurate charts? Or the ignorant hater?
I just added 40%. And dont shoot the messenger. It's not my fault the sales are dissapointing.
Still you chosed to take part and defend it.
That sites lives out of speculations.
Can you please aslo explain the large difference in EU sales vs US sales, when they had to add EU servers and are also running them on high/full population?
Developper IRChat was clear back in december when the makers said the "target" population per server was set to 1500 people per server, concurrently.
For a new game in its first 2 or 3 weeks everybody wants to play every night.
So with a 75% server capacity occupied you arrive at 120K people on line in prime time.
Calculate that 1 in 2 players of a new game want to play in the first 2 weeks and you arrive at roughly 300K players world wide.
The difference between 300K and 120K is probably due to on line direct sales.
It all shows we were set on the wrong foot by thinking the servers were more in common with Aion/Wow/Lotro numbers. But clearly the above data show the initial maximum capacity is set at 1500.
Several fans made recounting tools and the following was deducted: 500= low, under 1000 = middle, > 1000 = high and 1500 is server cap.
I think the reason behind these limited number is the Gamebryo version 2 engine they use, if I am not mistaking War used the same engine and had a 500/500 cap on each server at launch.
The very small server cap could be a weakness for long term play, but since Rift has no RvR they are not as dependant as WAR was.
That number was confirmed as false by Trion already. We can only speculate at how many concurrent people the servers can hold at this point.
The 1500 population cap has already been debunked as not being correct, see here
Besides, according to some people their server already counted about 2000 players when counting was done.
WAR iirc had a (concurrent) player cap of 1500.
Also, WAR and Rift use an upgraded version of the engine DAoC used, and DAoC had a far higher cap as well, and that was 10 years ago on a more primitive version of WAR's and Rift's engine.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That number was discussed extensively in other threads. That number was the first rough estimate from the first beta before any type of stress testing was done. At this point we don't know what the number is, because they have not released an updated number. What we do know is that that initial starting point is not where the game stands right now.
Again posted in direct response to that initial number:
Can each shard only hold 1500 players?
I keep seeing references to a dev saying that each sever would only hold 1500 people. The actual quote was from a very old IRC chat where one of our devs was talking about numbers for that current beta as the servers were opened. We do not release specific numbers about our servers. But we saw higher numbers with each beta and the same thing applies to release. The 1500 rumor is false.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by Qazz Originally posted by Werthe
Originally posted by Qazz
Trion hasn't released sales numbers yet. So where did that site get it's data? Here's what the quoted website says: "Well unfortunately if we were to release detailed information at this stage on exactly where we get our data from then everyone would jump on the bandwagon and competitors would likely get their cheque books out and try to block anyone from providing us with any more data. Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers."
Damage control it all you wan't. They are always close to official sales numbers. How could they even be close on digital sales? "We're not telling" ROFL. Trion was selling direct from their website and nobody knows how much they've sold yet. All those people can do is a wild guess since there haven't been any sales numbers released whatsoever. That's a fact. Haters gonna hate.
Most people I know bought the game directly from Trion
The math is a little off. Eve is an established game that doesn't require quite as active of a play style so their ratio of total accounts to actively playing is going to be higher than Rifts right now probably. Also 2200 per server is a high estimate from what I've seen it is right around 2k. But the math is closer to correct than the OP's post at least, heh.
Originally posted by Vegetta Originally posted by Qazz
Originally posted by Werthe
Originally posted by Qazz
Trion hasn't released sales numbers yet. So where did that site get it's data? Here's what the quoted website says: "Well unfortunately if we were to release detailed information at this stage on exactly where we get our data from then everyone would jump on the bandwagon and competitors would likely get their cheque books out and try to block anyone from providing us with any more data. Suffice to say (and this is where I do have to simply ask people for trust) that we do get data from a number of small retailers."
Damage control it all you wan't. They are always close to official sales numbers. How could they even be close on digital sales? "We're not telling" ROFL. Trion was selling direct from their website and nobody knows how much they've sold yet. All those people can do is a wild guess since there haven't been any sales numbers released whatsoever. That's a fact. Haters gonna hate.
Most people I know bought the game directly from Trion
It's been awhile since I looked, but if I understand correctly, VGChartz usual numbers are pulled from financial reports. The numbers for Rift on VGChartz are being pulled from conversations with small retailers. They've deviated from their usual operating procedure. I think it's safe to say, nobody knows how many boxes sold and nobody knows how many digital copies sold except Trion and right now, they're not talking.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
RIFT is a unique bird though since word of mouth is so strong, as it was in the beta. If there is still a steady stream of new accounts, they aren't going to short-change their first announcement. I see nothing wrong with no official numbers as of yet.
The word of mouth has been a very mixed bag, as many negatives as positives so I can't agree with this at all. This release feels a lot like AOC did to me. Both were pretty stable with Rift a tad bit more stable, both have some huge flaws in gameplay that some people didn't mind and others couldn't stand.
The word of mouth has been a very mixed bag, as many negatives as positives so I can't agree with this at all. This release feels a lot like AOC did to me. Both were pretty stable with Rift a tad bit more stable, both have some huge flaws in gameplay that some people didn't mind and others couldn't stand.
I'd not call getting dismounted easily is a huge flaw.
I'd not call getting dismounted easily is a huge flaw.
Neither would I.
I would call derivative game play, a mediocre at best story behind the game, quests on rails, extremely bland graphics, lackluster PvP, over the top mob density, a primary game mechanic like Rifts being boring by the end of the first week etc huge flaws. There is not a single aspect of Rift that isn't questionable in some way on the flawometer and if you try to get honest opinions from around the internet you'll see opinions all over the place on the game. Some love it, some hate it and most are in between.
I would call derivative game play, a mediocre at best story behind the game, quests on rails, extremely bland graphics, lackluster PvP, over the top mob density, a primary game mechanic like Rifts being boring by the end of the first week etc huge flaws. There is not a single aspect of Rift that isn't questionable in some way on the flawometer and if you try to get honest opinions from around the internet you'll see opinions all over the place on the game. Some love it, some hate it and most are in between.
You know, everything in every game can be questionable.
Derivative gameplay? Same thing can be said about WoW( not to mention that Trion's made up of former EQ , DAoC, WAR developers I wonder how can you rip off your own work),
Mediocre at best story behind the game, same as WoW( the RTS has somewhat acceptable stories but the MMORPG is horrible),
Quests on rails? The game open up dramatically after level 25.
Extremely bland graphic? Get a better computer.
Lackluster PvP? This is a PvE focused game, what do you expect? I can never understand people buying games belong to the genres that are obviously not meant for them and then bitch about it. If I was looking for PvP I'd buy GW.
Over the top mob density? No more than WoW, actually the more people in the area the higher the mobs density get.
Rifts getting repeatative? PvE aspect of the game always get repeatative if you do them repeatedly what do you expect? GW2 dynamic events will have the same problem.
Lackluster PvP? This is a PvE focused game, what do you expect? I can never understand people buying games belong to the genres that are obviously not meant for them and then bitch about it. If I was looking for PvP I'd buy GW.
Over the top mob density? No more than WoW, actually the more people in the area the higher the mobs density get.
The uninspired graphic design has nothing to do with my PC.
Rift is a hybrid PvP and PvE game, I'll never understand why people want to label these games as primary PvE. There are PvP souls, there is open world PvP, there are special PvP zones, every patch includes balance changes based on PvP to some degree. This is not a PvE based game, neither is WoW. EQ was, Asherons Call was, these are not.
The mob density is extreme compared to WoW or any other MMO I've played to be honest, I'm not talking respawn here either, just the normal density. It is a small world and they offset it by cramming as much as they could into every inch of it and that isn't a good thing.
But regardless, the point is my opinion wasn't formed just because mobs knock you off your mount, there are plenty of things that people don't like about Rift.
The uninspired graphic design has nothing to do with my PC.
Rift is a hybrid PvP and PvE game, I'll never understand why people want to label these games as primary PvE. There are PvP souls, there is open world PvP, there are special PvP zones, every patch includes balance changes based on PvP to some degree. This is not a PvE based game, neither is WoW. EQ was, Asherons Call was, these are not.
The mob density is extreme compared to WoW or any other MMO I've played to be honest, I'm not talking respawn here either, just the normal density. It is a small world and they offset it by cramming as much as they could into every inch of it and that isn't a good thing.
But regardless, the point is my opinion wasn't formed just because mobs knock you off your mount, there are plenty of things that people don't like about Rift.
This is true for all MMOs. Every day is a balance between the things you like in a game and the things you don't. When the balance starts consistenly tilt towards the things you don't like then you usually decide to leave.
For example, I've read a lot of times on these boards and elsewhere that people hate X game, but they stick to it because their community ties are very strong. This is an extreme case of course, where people just hate the game, but stick around because holding on to their online friends is more important than the actual game.
As I said, a balance between the good and the bad. Day after day.
There are less than 800k pixels in a 1024x768 image.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There is wild speculation a-plenty in this thread. I won't add to it more than to say that if you look at the actual number of servers, and server caps, it is likely that there are a couple hundred thousand players. This is what is referred to as a "successful launch." I don't play Rift, as I don't care for the fantasy genre, but because of the game's unique concept, I have kept up with the game's progress and it seems like a solid game. As with any new release, I'm sure it has kinks that need worked out, but overall the game seems to be doing well so far.
My inside source said it wasnt quite 1.1M units sold/downloaded, but it was close.
My source also said there have been ~40k canceled accounts and that they have not logged back on since canceling.
Thats about all the info I was able to get as they are not truly privy to the subscriber numbers.
I can buy that number, although i think its a little high possibly, but +- 200k subs isnt really a huge issue. However, regardless of speculative numbers, the game is going to crash at the first billing cycle, or 2nd at most, and lose the usual 50-75% of its player base. On my server, i am already seeing significant drop off. I do not think the server populations were ever all that high to begin with, i never had the feeling there were more then 1000-1500 people on the server concurrently, which is bad for a mmo. A healthy server needs 2-3k players online to promote interaction.
I hope rift pulls it out, im in for another 60 days most likely, since there is not anything else coming out worth a damn, even homefront/DA2 are horrible games, however i see rift falling into trouble very fast, given its widspread playerbase, and account security problems.
My inside source said it wasnt quite 1.1M units sold/downloaded, but it was close.
My source also said there have been ~40k canceled accounts and that they have not logged back on since canceling.
Thats about all the info I was able to get as they are not truly privy to the subscriber numbers.
I can buy that number, although i think its a little high possibly, but +- 200k subs isnt really a huge issue. However, regardless of speculative numbers, the game is going to crash at the first billing cycle, or 2nd at most, and lose the usual 50-75% of its player base. On my server, i am already seeing significant drop off. I do not think the server populations were ever all that high to begin with, i never had the feeling there were more then 1000-1500 people on the server concurrently, which is bad for a mmo. A healthy server needs 2-3k players online to promote interaction.
I hope rift pulls it out, im in for another 60 days most likely, since there is not anything else coming out worth a damn, even homefront/DA2 are horrible games, however i see rift falling into trouble very fast, given its widspread playerbase, and account security problems.
All MMOs suffers from 'churn' or player retention.
Even the sub-number king WoW only retains 30% (only 30% gets above level 10 - blizz CEO).
People treat MMOs like a single player game and I think they always have (the majority anyway).
The fundamental issue is to get the number of people leaving < number of new people starting. Whether this is through word of mouth (EVE, WoW etc) or marketing (WoW, Aion).
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
My inside source said it wasnt quite 1.1M units sold/downloaded, but it was close.
My source also said there have been ~40k canceled accounts and that they have not logged back on since canceling.
Thats about all the info I was able to get as they are not truly privy to the subscriber numbers.
I can buy that number, although i think its a little high possibly, but +- 200k subs isnt really a huge issue. However, regardless of speculative numbers, the game is going to crash at the first billing cycle, or 2nd at most, and lose the usual 50-75% of its player base. On my server, i am already seeing significant drop off. I do not think the server populations were ever all that high to begin with, i never had the feeling there were more then 1000-1500 people on the server concurrently, which is bad for a mmo. A healthy server needs 2-3k players online to promote interaction.
I hope rift pulls it out, im in for another 60 days most likely, since there is not anything else coming out worth a damn, even homefront/DA2 are horrible games, however i see rift falling into trouble very fast, given its widspread playerbase, and account security problems.
All MMOs suffers from 'churn' or player retention.
Even the sub-number king WoW only retains 30% (only 30% gets above level 10 - blizz CEO).
People treat MMOs like a single player game and I think they always have (the majority anyway).
The fundamental issue is to get the number of people leaving < number of new people starting. Whether this is through word of mouth (EVE, WoW etc) or marketing (WoW, Aion).
With the huge security holes that they have with their autentication system its going to be hard to keep anybody. There seams to be an individual, or group of individuals who are working at exposing these holes. There was a post about this one guy saying it was able to brute force his way in after the coin lock. That post was removed from trions site. It would seam that this person or persons who posted that are out to get trion. I have to wonder how many more holes they have in there autentication system.
All I can say is you must bring in more new blood to replace the old blood leaving, and right now I don't think that is happening. I seen several folks come back to eq2, and all of them saying they were hacked and suffered and are not going back.
Comments
Still you chosed to take part and defend it.
That sites lives out of speculations.
Can you please aslo explain the large difference in EU sales vs US sales, when they had to add EU servers and are also running them on high/full population?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
That number was confirmed as false by Trion already. We can only speculate at how many concurrent people the servers can hold at this point.
The 1500 population cap has already been debunked as not being correct, see here
Besides, according to some people their server already counted about 2000 players when counting was done.
WAR iirc had a (concurrent) player cap of 1500.
Also, WAR and Rift use an upgraded version of the engine DAoC used, and DAoC had a far higher cap as well, and that was 10 years ago on a more primitive version of WAR's and Rift's engine.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That number was discussed extensively in other threads. That number was the first rough estimate from the first beta before any type of stress testing was done. At this point we don't know what the number is, because they have not released an updated number. What we do know is that that initial starting point is not where the game stands right now.
Again posted in direct response to that initial number:
Can each shard only hold 1500 players?
I keep seeing references to a dev saying that each sever would only hold 1500 people. The actual quote was from a very old IRC chat where one of our devs was talking about numbers for that current beta as the servers were opened. We do not release specific numbers about our servers. But we saw higher numbers with each beta and the same thing applies to release. The 1500 rumor is false.
What Xasapis said
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wait, what were we fighting about again?!?! I wanna play too!!!
Here are my two cents....sales...mean NOTHING!!
Cata sold how many?? Yeah, enough said right there hahahaha.
Damage control it all you wan't. They are always close to official sales numbers.
How could they even be close on digital sales? "We're not telling" ROFL. Trion was selling direct from their website and nobody knows how much they've sold yet.
All those people can do is a wild guess since there haven't been any sales numbers released whatsoever. That's a fact. Haters gonna hate.
Most people I know bought the game directly from Trion
The math is a little off. Eve is an established game that doesn't require quite as active of a play style so their ratio of total accounts to actively playing is going to be higher than Rifts right now probably. Also 2200 per server is a high estimate from what I've seen it is right around 2k. But the math is closer to correct than the OP's post at least, heh.
Damage control it all you wan't. They are always close to official sales numbers.
How could they even be close on digital sales? "We're not telling" ROFL. Trion was selling direct from their website and nobody knows how much they've sold yet.
All those people can do is a wild guess since there haven't been any sales numbers released whatsoever. That's a fact. Haters gonna hate.
Most people I know bought the game directly from Trion
It's been awhile since I looked, but if I understand correctly, VGChartz usual numbers are pulled from financial reports. The numbers for Rift on VGChartz are being pulled from conversations with small retailers. They've deviated from their usual operating procedure. I think it's safe to say, nobody knows how many boxes sold and nobody knows how many digital copies sold except Trion and right now, they're not talking.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Rift sold 3 million copies so far. I wrote it on my blog so feel free to quote it as actual numbers.
VGChartz tracks ONLY retail sales. Majority of RIFT sales come from digital download.
The word of mouth has been a very mixed bag, as many negatives as positives so I can't agree with this at all. This release feels a lot like AOC did to me. Both were pretty stable with Rift a tad bit more stable, both have some huge flaws in gameplay that some people didn't mind and others couldn't stand.
I'd not call getting dismounted easily is a huge flaw.
Neither would I.
I would call derivative game play, a mediocre at best story behind the game, quests on rails, extremely bland graphics, lackluster PvP, over the top mob density, a primary game mechanic like Rifts being boring by the end of the first week etc huge flaws. There is not a single aspect of Rift that isn't questionable in some way on the flawometer and if you try to get honest opinions from around the internet you'll see opinions all over the place on the game. Some love it, some hate it and most are in between.
You know, everything in every game can be questionable.
Derivative gameplay? Same thing can be said about WoW( not to mention that Trion's made up of former EQ , DAoC, WAR developers I wonder how can you rip off your own work),
Mediocre at best story behind the game, same as WoW( the RTS has somewhat acceptable stories but the MMORPG is horrible),
Quests on rails? The game open up dramatically after level 25.
Extremely bland graphic? Get a better computer.
Lackluster PvP? This is a PvE focused game, what do you expect? I can never understand people buying games belong to the genres that are obviously not meant for them and then bitch about it. If I was looking for PvP I'd buy GW.
Over the top mob density? No more than WoW, actually the more people in the area the higher the mobs density get.
Rifts getting repeatative? PvE aspect of the game always get repeatative if you do them repeatedly what do you expect? GW2 dynamic events will have the same problem.
The uninspired graphic design has nothing to do with my PC.
Rift is a hybrid PvP and PvE game, I'll never understand why people want to label these games as primary PvE. There are PvP souls, there is open world PvP, there are special PvP zones, every patch includes balance changes based on PvP to some degree. This is not a PvE based game, neither is WoW. EQ was, Asherons Call was, these are not.
The mob density is extreme compared to WoW or any other MMO I've played to be honest, I'm not talking respawn here either, just the normal density. It is a small world and they offset it by cramming as much as they could into every inch of it and that isn't a good thing.
But regardless, the point is my opinion wasn't formed just because mobs knock you off your mount, there are plenty of things that people don't like about Rift.
This is true for all MMOs. Every day is a balance between the things you like in a game and the things you don't. When the balance starts consistenly tilt towards the things you don't like then you usually decide to leave.
For example, I've read a lot of times on these boards and elsewhere that people hate X game, but they stick to it because their community ties are very strong. This is an extreme case of course, where people just hate the game, but stick around because holding on to their online friends is more important than the actual game.
As I said, a balance between the good and the bad. Day after day.
There are less than 800k pixels in a 1024x768 image.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There is wild speculation a-plenty in this thread. I won't add to it more than to say that if you look at the actual number of servers, and server caps, it is likely that there are a couple hundred thousand players. This is what is referred to as a "successful launch." I don't play Rift, as I don't care for the fantasy genre, but because of the game's unique concept, I have kept up with the game's progress and it seems like a solid game. As with any new release, I'm sure it has kinks that need worked out, but overall the game seems to be doing well so far.
Congrats to those enjoying their new game.
My inside source said it wasnt quite 1.1M units sold/downloaded, but it was close.
My source also said there have been ~40k canceled accounts and that they have not logged back on since canceling.
Thats about all the info I was able to get as they are not truly privy to the subscriber numbers.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
I can buy that number, although i think its a little high possibly, but +- 200k subs isnt really a huge issue. However, regardless of speculative numbers, the game is going to crash at the first billing cycle, or 2nd at most, and lose the usual 50-75% of its player base. On my server, i am already seeing significant drop off. I do not think the server populations were ever all that high to begin with, i never had the feeling there were more then 1000-1500 people on the server concurrently, which is bad for a mmo. A healthy server needs 2-3k players online to promote interaction.
I hope rift pulls it out, im in for another 60 days most likely, since there is not anything else coming out worth a damn, even homefront/DA2 are horrible games, however i see rift falling into trouble very fast, given its widspread playerbase, and account security problems.
All MMOs suffers from 'churn' or player retention.
Even the sub-number king WoW only retains 30% (only 30% gets above level 10 - blizz CEO).
People treat MMOs like a single player game and I think they always have (the majority anyway).
The fundamental issue is to get the number of people leaving < number of new people starting. Whether this is through word of mouth (EVE, WoW etc) or marketing (WoW, Aion).
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
With the huge security holes that they have with their autentication system its going to be hard to keep anybody. There seams to be an individual, or group of individuals who are working at exposing these holes. There was a post about this one guy saying it was able to brute force his way in after the coin lock. That post was removed from trions site. It would seam that this person or persons who posted that are out to get trion. I have to wonder how many more holes they have in there autentication system.
All I can say is you must bring in more new blood to replace the old blood leaving, and right now I don't think that is happening. I seen several folks come back to eq2, and all of them saying they were hacked and suffered and are not going back.