I read the full post. You also said that things like weapon speed made the weapon different in a different post. Hence there is a difference in weapons, only the skill damage is the same. Does the only thing a weapon do is damage or are there other affects, like stunning?
And there is utility gear that makes a huge difference. Things like smoke bombs, IR goggles, telescopic lenses, motion detectors, traps, bombs etc (or magical equivalent)... they have a huge impact on the game or do none of these things exist in your game?
Also, why have a bonus at all if it has no affect?
MMOFPS weapons dont all do the same damage and dont all have the same damage type. You have made the weapons damage/type identical, hence they are more limiting/less variation.
Gear with only appearance difference isnt different, its the same, just doesnt appear that way, but everyone knows it is. So no, there isnt a lot to add (though even appearance can be taken advantage of...dark clothes at night for instance). Its also kind of silly a guy in a loincloth and t-shirt has the same defence as a guy in plate armor. Do you think that descrepancy is going to attract players to the game?
Players rarely gank for gear, they gank for their own pleasure. Gear is just an added incentive.
As for groups vs one, you hear that complaint all the time. I dont see any reason while it will be differernt in your game. Most pvp games balance for groups not duels, the imbalance folks complain the most about though are 1vs1 and pre-mades vs pugs.
I said weapons would have different speeds because, short small weapons would have to have a way to make up for the reach of say a 2h sword, or spear. Weapon differences would be speed, and reach.
Armor is not a total non factor just a very minimal factor. A naked toon would be at a small disadvantage then a fully armored toon. Thats not to say that a naked toon wouldn't be able to win though. If they timed their blocks or dodges right, and kept moving to make it hard to hit them, they could still win.
As far as utlity skills. I don't really have alot of examples there. I prefer medevil fantasy. So if it was a few different ones from that style that no one skill was better than the other it would be fine. Maybe a few trap skills, or steath skills.
Not sure how weapon speed/reach would not have a combat affect that wouldnt result in an advantage within the limits of a programable game especially when weapon damage and type was the same.
As for armor, remember your starting your character and the other character has no advantage even though they have played the game for a year. You are discuss player skill only not character functions, so armor cannot have an advantage over anything else. I know what you want to say but you cant do it. Either armor makes a difference or it does not. Either everyone is exactly equal or they are not.
That is the same with lvl games too. Either the lvl matters or it does not. Degree of matter can be handled in any game whether lvls are present or they are not. Currently the degree of lvl difference/gear is too high, but you can simply real that back in and have a game very close to what you describe and have lvls in it without the variation hit your ideas give.
If you are talking just medieval and no fantasy then the most obvious is fire/acid and poison related items. If you arent going to be realistic though, about the weapons and armor, then you can eliminate many advantages/disadvanteges which makes them a bit pointless since they were designed for those advantages. I think it makes the game rather uninteresting.
Not sure how weapon speed/reach would not have a combat affect that wouldnt result in an advantage within the limits of a programable game especially when weapon damage and type was the same.
As for armor, remember your starting your character and the other character has no advantage even though they have played the game for a year. You are discuss player skill only not character functions, so armor cannot have an advantage over anything else. I know what you want to say but you cant do it. Either armor makes a difference or it does not. Either everyone is exactly equal or they are not.
That is the same with lvl games too. Either the lvl matters or it does not. Degree of matter can be handled in any game whether lvls are present or they are not. Currently the degree of lvl difference/gear is too high, but you can simply real that back in and have a game very close to what you describe and have lvls in it without the variation hit your ideas give.
If you are talking just medieval and no fantasy then the most obvious is fire/acid and poison related items. If you arent going to be realistic though, about the weapons and armor, then you can eliminate many advantages/disadvanteges which makes them a bit pointless since they were designed for those advantages. I think it makes the game rather uninteresting.
Well maybe the game just wouldn't be for you then. For me I could careless if someone thats brand new or 2 years in can beat me. So the gear needing different bonuses is a non factor for me as well. If combat was fun, interesting, and full of action that would keep me in. Also getting to build up guild cities, or trying to find a remote place for just my own house would be even more fun. Add in guild vs guild wars over land even more fun. Add a really detailed character creation system at start even more. Trying to gain world level or rank for cooloer looking stuff even more fun. Add a bunch of different races that fight each other more fun. I know i am repeating myself, but I'm just trying to make a point. I would like a game like that very much.
I'm not trying to argue over what will and won't work. We don't know if it will or not because it hasn't been done yet. I am just curious if other people agree with me. FPS do something right. After all they have millions, and millions of players world wide. Maybe if a game mocking there style was made into an rpg it might work, and be awesome for alot of players. Never know till it actually happens. Who knows maybe a dev will see this thread or one like it, and make a game like this.
Everyone keeps talking about how they are sick of games always using a level system. So say they made a game with no progression through levels. Lets say that someone made a game where through the whole game your stats you choose at start never changed. Say they even made the skills you could use all do, lets say 3 different levels of damage. Ex. skill level 1 would always do 15 damage with a cool down of 2 seconds. Skill 2 would always do 25 damage but have a cool down of 5 seconds. Skill 3 would do 50 damage but have a cool down of 15 seconds. Say you only can have 3 combat skills 1 healing and utility skill giving you 5 total. The devs give you a bunch of different ones, and types(meaning like ranged, melee, and magical) to choose from they just all follow the same rules. The skills all have different looks though when they are use. That way everyone doesn't get bored of the same actions over and over.
Gear would add very minimal bonuses, but the gear you wore allowed for different skills to be used. By different skills I mean if you have a shield then you can block, if no shield then you can dodge. Or ranged or magical skills depending on weapon type. Gear would just look different as you progressed through the game. Starting very plain and getting cooler looking towards the end, but always having the same stat bonuses. Just improved looks.
The devs even give you a progress level say for those people that need to feel like they are gaining something for all their fighting, and questing. The level would just be for looks or bragging rights though with say a 200 cap. It could also unlock new quests or crafting items. You could also have a world level, or rank based on a mix of total kills and kill to pvp death ratio. That could unlock cooler looking skills. The starter skills would be dull and boring. The ones you unlock through player progression from pve, or pvp would get cooler and cooler looking.
I said this in a later post, but the game would also have a way to block or dodge. The blocking would work like a blocking in a action fighting game. Dodge would be like GW2, but you be able to jump roll in a direction you choose. Both skills would go off a stamina bar. So saving ur blocks, or dodges for the right times would be a factor.
The game would have all the things you find in a normal sandbox game. Just with the above combat, and progression styles. Would you play a game like that?
P.S. sorry for the bad grammer and punctuation.
Yes, I would play a game that had no levels. I don't dislike level systems per se, but I'm not a fan of them so much in MMOs. I'm more of a fan of the idea of having items and equipment that supplement the role you wish to perform and then giving players lots of options with abilities and stats on the items.
I'd want it so that this game would have a player-driven economy much like Eve's. However each piece of crafted equipment would be able have abilities and stats determined by the player that is crafting it. With abilities and "crafting techniques" (how any particular item is craft, such that influences the stats on the item and the abilities you could imbue on the item for the player to have access too) would be found through playing. Like at the end of a dungeon or in the middle of nowhere and the game would be dynamically changing to encourage exploration and so on. Resources would also play a part in this too. This way not every player would be able to craft identical pieces of equipment. Yes some would be better than others, and I'm fine with that as long as there would be lootable pvp (though I wouldn't want the entire game world to be ffa-pvp--I'd want a system more like Eve's and less like Darkfall).
If players could add stats to the gear they crafted then the game would become more unbalanced, and instead gear dependant. I also don't mind level based games. I just always see people posting how they want change, and a totally player skill based game. So I tried to think of a way it could be done, and this is what i came up with.
Well, if I wanted to play a game where gear and stats didn't matter I'd play a FPS.
I'm not unaware of the need for balance, but I would like to see a system in an MMO that encourages exploration, trade, and resource acquistion. I want unique items and many different items are desirible for players to use. I want a dynamic economy that is always in a state of flux. And I don't mind allowing different players to be able to have different means of creating equipment. I didn't mean that I wanted one piece of equipment or some pieces of equipment to be so much better than anything that they were the only pieces of equipment worth using, but at the same time I don't want the game to be too static. I want variability. And an item with an increased stat advantage over any other item in it's type can always have penalties that are proportional to it's strength. It's not impossible to have items have different stats and still be balanced.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Everyone keeps talking about how they are sick of games always using a level system. So say they made a game with no progression through levels. Lets say that someone made a game where through the whole game your stats you choose at start never changed. Say they even made the skills you could use all do, lets say 3 different levels of damage. Ex. skill level 1 would always do 15 damage with a cool down of 2 seconds. Skill 2 would always do 25 damage but have a cool down of 5 seconds. Skill 3 would do 50 damage but have a cool down of 15 seconds. Say you only can have 3 combat skills 1 healing and utility skill giving you 5 total. The devs give you a bunch of different ones, and types(meaning like ranged, melee, and magical) to choose from they just all follow the same rules. The skills all have different looks though when they are use. That way everyone doesn't get bored of the same actions over and over.
Gear would add very minimal bonuses, but the gear you wore allowed for different skills to be used. By different skills I mean if you have a shield then you can block, if no shield then you can dodge. Or ranged or magical skills depending on weapon type. Gear would just look different as you progressed through the game. Starting very plain and getting cooler looking towards the end, but always having the same stat bonuses. Just improved looks.
The devs even give you a progress level say for those people that need to feel like they are gaining something for all their fighting, and questing. The level would just be for looks or bragging rights though with say a 200 cap. It could also unlock new quests or crafting items. You could also have a world level, or rank based on a mix of total kills and kill to pvp death ratio. That could unlock cooler looking skills. The starter skills would be dull and boring. The ones you unlock through player progression from pve, or pvp would get cooler and cooler looking.
I said this in a later post, but the game would also have a way to block or dodge. The blocking would work like a blocking in a action fighting game. Dodge would be like GW2, but you be able to jump roll in a direction you choose. Both skills would go off a stamina bar. So saving ur blocks, or dodges for the right times would be a factor.
The game would have all the things you find in a normal sandbox game. Just with the above combat, and progression styles. Would you play a game like that?
P.S. sorry for the bad grammer and punctuation.
Yes, I would play a game that had no levels. I don't dislike level systems per se, but I'm not a fan of them so much in MMOs. I'm more of a fan of the idea of having items and equipment that supplement the role you wish to perform and then giving players lots of options with abilities and stats on the items.
I'd want it so that this game would have a player-driven economy much like Eve's. However each piece of crafted equipment would be able have abilities and stats determined by the player that is crafting it. With abilities and "crafting techniques" (how any particular item is craft, such that influences the stats on the item and the abilities you could imbue on the item for the player to have access too) would be found through playing. Like at the end of a dungeon or in the middle of nowhere and the game would be dynamically changing to encourage exploration and so on. Resources would also play a part in this too. This way not every player would be able to craft identical pieces of equipment. Yes some would be better than others, and I'm fine with that as long as there would be lootable pvp (though I wouldn't want the entire game world to be ffa-pvp--I'd want a system more like Eve's and less like Darkfall).
If players could add stats to the gear they crafted then the game would become more unbalanced, and instead gear dependant. I also don't mind level based games. I just always see people posting how they want change, and a totally player skill based game. So I tried to think of a way it could be done, and this is what i came up with.
Well, if I wanted to play a game where gear and stats didn't matter I'd play a FPS.
I'm not unaware of the need for balance, but I would like to see a system in an MMO that encourages exploration, trade, and resource acquistion. I want unique items and many different items are desirible for players to use. I want a dynamic economy that is always in a state of flux. And I don't mind allowing different players to be able to have different means of creating equipment. I didn't mean that I wanted one piece of equipment or some pieces of equipment to be so much better than anything that they were the only pieces of equipment worth using, but at the same time I don't want the game to be too static. I want variability. And an item with an increased stat advantage over any other item in it's type can always have penalties that are proportional to it's strength. It's not impossible to have items have different stats and still be balanced.
I know it's not, but if they did it this way the game would be more combat focused. Gear would still be sought after by all the players who like to make their toon look bad ass. Trade would still be there too. People would still need mats for building cities or ships or houses. Also it would take special mats for the bad ass looking armor sets.
True enough. However I suspect game designers have looked at the possibility and decided not to go down that path for one reason or another.
In any case, what I like is variety and I think the 'everyone is the same' detracts from that. Whether or not there are lvls there must be differences and if there are differences there must be advantages and disadvantages. Developing a way of combining player influence and character abilities into a rich and robust system now that is a challenge, but making everything the same to alleviate that challenge...just doesnt seem that fun to play.
True enough. However I suspect game designers have looked at the possibility and decided not to go down that path for one reason or another.
In any case, what I like is variety and I think the 'everyone is the same' detracts from that. Whether or not there are lvls there must be differences and if there are differences there must be advantages and disadvantages. Developing a way of combining player influence and character abilities into a rich and robust system now that is a challenge, but making everything the same to alleviate that challenge...just doesnt seem that fun to play.
Greed is why they are scared. Devs don't wanna go to far from Wow style in fear that it won't make money. Also america in general had become very corp styled. Meaning imagination is becoming a rare factor here in life compared to what it was even 10 years ago. Just my opinions though.
Heh, well maybe but I would think they would equate fun with players and players with subscriptions and subscriptions with money. WoW was really a gamble in its time itself. Since then the MMO industry has just gone over the top, there are 399 games listed here from a variety of differenet companies, people, countries with different styles of play and focuses. And yet...
Something interesting I heard from an MMO site. Maple story had 95million accounts. Now, I dont know that is true or not and I dont know if they are all active. But, kind of interesting isnt it.
Heh, well maybe but I would think they would equate fun with players and players with subscriptions and subscriptions with money. WoW was really a gamble in its time itself. Since then the MMO industry has just gone over the top, there are 399 games listed here from a variety of differenet companies, people, countries with different styles of play and focuses. And yet...
Something interesting I heard from an MMO site. Maple story had 95million accounts. Now, I dont know that is true or not and I dont know if they are all active. But, kind of interesting isnt it.
95? Or 9.5? Either way thats pretty good a little crazy if 95 million though.
i would totally play a level less mmorpg.... i heard TSW wont be level based so i thingk it would be a good way to break the monotony that has turned all games into trash when everyone is rushing to end game in less than a month then theres nothing else to do....
a good and well finished level-less game (with a lot of content) would be great and we players would have a lot of time to do just many things untill reaching an actual end game (without having to stop playing 2-4 weeks after thanks to nothing else to do)
I dont think we can know, its just food for thought. MMORPG.com says 50mill. Its likely though it really is a number larger than WoW. Just its a f2p, asian company with 2d simple graphics so not much in the way of advertisment. Folks just quitely play it and have been for years.
I dont think we can know, its just food for thought. MMORPG.com says 50mill. Its likely though it really is a number larger than WoW. Just its a f2p, asian company with 2d simple graphics so not much in the way of advertisment. Folks just quitely play it and have been for years.
Yeah I have glanced at it a time or 2 but never tried it. I have to have a 3D game 2D just doesn't do it for me at all since 3D games. Seeing this though, and knowing how well super simple runescape is STILL doing makes me think a game like this could work and be very popular. Hell if darkfall had this in there game I'd play it then. Reason i don't play darkfall though is cause it would take a long while to catch up to the vets of the game. Wish arche age would use a system like this in their game.
I'd probably try it since I haven't played anything like it yet. Who knows? I might enjoy it. I like games which are based on skill and not on equipments. Although, there's a good chance that it can't hold me for a long time. If it usually updates its content, then maybe yes. Or if it has a good story, and a good ending, then yes. But if there's really no progression besides looking cooler, then I'd probably quit after a few weeks.
Played: Runescape, Adventure Quest Currently playing: Aika Global, Atlantica Online Waiting for: Cardmon Hero, Dynasty Warriors Online
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
You're on a wrong forum, why don't you rather stick to your Counterstrike or Call of Duty. This is xxxRPG - which always involves skills, levels, and combat mechanics behind the curtain. If you want this super balance, which you mentioned, you are seriously looking for it within a wrong genre.
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
You're on a wrong forum, why don't you rather stick to your Counterstrike or Call of Duty. This is xxxRPG - which always involves skills, levels, and combat mechanics behind the curtain. If you want this super balance, which you mentioned, you are seriously looking for it within a wrong genre.
So you're sdaying that Ultima Online never existed? That there was never an MMORPG - let alone the granndaddy of all MMORPG's - without levels? You're saying that MUD's without levels never existed? Perhaps you are on the wrong forum. The I haven't played any MMORPG's but WoW forum is thataway --->
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
You're on a wrong forum, why don't you rather stick to your Counterstrike or Call of Duty. This is xxxRPG - which always involves skills, levels, and combat mechanics behind the curtain. If you want this super balance, which you mentioned, you are seriously looking for it within a wrong genre.
So you're sdaying that Ultima Online never existed? That there was never an MMORPG - let alone the granndaddy of all MMORPG's - without levels? You're saying that MUD's without levels never existed? Perhaps you are on the wrong forum. The I haven't played any MMORPG's but WoW forum is thataway --->
Your icon does a good job reflecting your intellect and the quality of your posting.
Levels, ie progression. Whether it's a level progression or skills progression. That's pretty much what I was talking about and which is an alpha omega of each and every RPG. This kind of blockheaded questions and WoW insults just slow down the discussion. Can we move on?
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
I think this is right on the money. UO was a perfect example of how it can very easily be done.
You're a little slow, aren't you? The OP is talking about total removal of all progression not just levels. UO had progression, just like every RPG game has. So UO is not a "perfect example" of what the OP is talking about. Why don't you take your time reading the original post, if you've got some reading problems.
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
I think this is right on the money. UO was a perfect example of how it can very easily be done.
You're a little slow, aren't you? The OP is talking about total removal of all progression not just levels. UO had progression, just like every RPG game has. So UO is not a "perfect example" of what the OP is talking about. Why don't you take your time reading the original post, if you've got some reading problems.
And you dare to send me back to WoW? I'm sending you back to school ninny to take a reading lesson again.
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
I think this is right on the money. UO was a perfect example of how it can very easily be done.
You're a little slow, aren't you? The OP is talking about total removal of all progression not just levels. UO had progression, just like every RPG game has. So UO is not a "perfect example" of what the OP is talking about. Why don't you take your time reading the original post, if you've got some reading problems.
And you dare to send me back to WoW? I'm sending you back to school ninny to take a reading lesson again.
i think people are forgetting that not all games have levels, and that 'progression' isnt always a factor, its been done successfully in the past, the most innovative games that i've ever played, and the most fun, have not had character levels.. but it does seem like people can't get their head around that fact, and seem to think that for a game to be called a RPG .. MMO or otherwise, it must have levels, when this is clearly not the case. Level based systems are lazy mechanics, always have been, and nowhere is that more highlighted than in games where PVP is more than a token representation, Balancing issues, damage caps, the whole mule train that it brings to the table, level based problems. Which for me, is why level based systems only really work in PVE orientated games, and even then, theres the 'fudge factor' where area's become 'level zones' .. its a lazy system.
Let me add that I would play it because the game would be totally balanced, and player skill would make the player.
I think this is right on the money. UO was a perfect example of how it can very easily be done.
You're a little slow, aren't you? The OP is talking about total removal of all progression not just levels. UO had progression, just like every RPG game has. So UO is not a "perfect example" of what the OP is talking about. Why don't you take your time reading the original post, if you've got some reading problems.
And you dare to send me back to WoW? I'm sending you back to school ninny to take a reading lesson again.
i think people are forgetting that not all games have levels, and that 'progression' isnt always a factor, its been done successfully in the past, the most innovative games that i've ever played, and the most fun, have not had character levels.. but it does seem like people can't get their head around that fact, and seem to think that for a game to be called a RPG .. MMO or otherwise, it must have levels, when this is clearly not the case. Level based systems are lazy mechanics, always have been, and nowhere is that more highlighted than in games where PVP is more than a token representation, Balancing issues, damage caps, the whole mule train that it brings to the table, level based problems. Which for me, is why level based systems only really work in PVE orientated games, and even then, theres the 'fudge factor' where area's become 'level zones' .. its a lazy system.
This is not a discussion of levels vs skills type of progression. OP is exclusively writing in his original post about removal of all progression. You choose the skills when you roll your character, and that's it. All progression in game is then limited to better graphical spell effects and so on. No progression that would involve mechanics.
Which would make the game be not within the xxxRPG genre, as RPG is strickly defined by character progression. Thus, I said this vision is much closer to games like Call of Duty or Counterstrike, rather than to MMORPG.
Comments
I said weapons would have different speeds because, short small weapons would have to have a way to make up for the reach of say a 2h sword, or spear. Weapon differences would be speed, and reach.
Armor is not a total non factor just a very minimal factor. A naked toon would be at a small disadvantage then a fully armored toon. Thats not to say that a naked toon wouldn't be able to win though. If they timed their blocks or dodges right, and kept moving to make it hard to hit them, they could still win.
As far as utlity skills. I don't really have alot of examples there. I prefer medevil fantasy. So if it was a few different ones from that style that no one skill was better than the other it would be fine. Maybe a few trap skills, or steath skills.
Not sure how weapon speed/reach would not have a combat affect that wouldnt result in an advantage within the limits of a programable game especially when weapon damage and type was the same.
As for armor, remember your starting your character and the other character has no advantage even though they have played the game for a year. You are discuss player skill only not character functions, so armor cannot have an advantage over anything else. I know what you want to say but you cant do it. Either armor makes a difference or it does not. Either everyone is exactly equal or they are not.
That is the same with lvl games too. Either the lvl matters or it does not. Degree of matter can be handled in any game whether lvls are present or they are not. Currently the degree of lvl difference/gear is too high, but you can simply real that back in and have a game very close to what you describe and have lvls in it without the variation hit your ideas give.
If you are talking just medieval and no fantasy then the most obvious is fire/acid and poison related items. If you arent going to be realistic though, about the weapons and armor, then you can eliminate many advantages/disadvanteges which makes them a bit pointless since they were designed for those advantages. I think it makes the game rather uninteresting.
Well maybe the game just wouldn't be for you then. For me I could careless if someone thats brand new or 2 years in can beat me. So the gear needing different bonuses is a non factor for me as well. If combat was fun, interesting, and full of action that would keep me in. Also getting to build up guild cities, or trying to find a remote place for just my own house would be even more fun. Add in guild vs guild wars over land even more fun. Add a really detailed character creation system at start even more. Trying to gain world level or rank for cooloer looking stuff even more fun. Add a bunch of different races that fight each other more fun. I know i am repeating myself, but I'm just trying to make a point. I would like a game like that very much.
I'm not trying to argue over what will and won't work. We don't know if it will or not because it hasn't been done yet. I am just curious if other people agree with me. FPS do something right. After all they have millions, and millions of players world wide. Maybe if a game mocking there style was made into an rpg it might work, and be awesome for alot of players. Never know till it actually happens. Who knows maybe a dev will see this thread or one like it, and make a game like this.
Well, if I wanted to play a game where gear and stats didn't matter I'd play a FPS.
I'm not unaware of the need for balance, but I would like to see a system in an MMO that encourages exploration, trade, and resource acquistion. I want unique items and many different items are desirible for players to use. I want a dynamic economy that is always in a state of flux. And I don't mind allowing different players to be able to have different means of creating equipment. I didn't mean that I wanted one piece of equipment or some pieces of equipment to be so much better than anything that they were the only pieces of equipment worth using, but at the same time I don't want the game to be too static. I want variability. And an item with an increased stat advantage over any other item in it's type can always have penalties that are proportional to it's strength. It's not impossible to have items have different stats and still be balanced.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
I know it's not, but if they did it this way the game would be more combat focused. Gear would still be sought after by all the players who like to make their toon look bad ass. Trade would still be there too. People would still need mats for building cities or ships or houses. Also it would take special mats for the bad ass looking armor sets.
True enough. However I suspect game designers have looked at the possibility and decided not to go down that path for one reason or another.
In any case, what I like is variety and I think the 'everyone is the same' detracts from that. Whether or not there are lvls there must be differences and if there are differences there must be advantages and disadvantages. Developing a way of combining player influence and character abilities into a rich and robust system now that is a challenge, but making everything the same to alleviate that challenge...just doesnt seem that fun to play.
Greed is why they are scared. Devs don't wanna go to far from Wow style in fear that it won't make money. Also america in general had become very corp styled. Meaning imagination is becoming a rare factor here in life compared to what it was even 10 years ago. Just my opinions though.
Heh, well maybe but I would think they would equate fun with players and players with subscriptions and subscriptions with money. WoW was really a gamble in its time itself. Since then the MMO industry has just gone over the top, there are 399 games listed here from a variety of differenet companies, people, countries with different styles of play and focuses. And yet...
Something interesting I heard from an MMO site. Maple story had 95million accounts. Now, I dont know that is true or not and I dont know if they are all active. But, kind of interesting isnt it.
95? Or 9.5? Either way thats pretty good a little crazy if 95 million though.
i would totally play a level less mmorpg.... i heard TSW wont be level based so i thingk it would be a good way to break the monotony that has turned all games into trash when everyone is rushing to end game in less than a month then theres nothing else to do....
a good and well finished level-less game (with a lot of content) would be great and we players would have a lot of time to do just many things untill reaching an actual end game (without having to stop playing 2-4 weeks after thanks to nothing else to do)
He said 95mill. #7 is maple story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekD8Pm8yDow
Makes me wonder what the truth really is now.
I dont think we can know, its just food for thought. MMORPG.com says 50mill. Its likely though it really is a number larger than WoW. Just its a f2p, asian company with 2d simple graphics so not much in the way of advertisment. Folks just quitely play it and have been for years.
Yeah I have glanced at it a time or 2 but never tried it. I have to have a 3D game 2D just doesn't do it for me at all since 3D games. Seeing this though, and knowing how well super simple runescape is STILL doing makes me think a game like this could work and be very popular. Hell if darkfall had this in there game I'd play it then. Reason i don't play darkfall though is cause it would take a long while to catch up to the vets of the game. Wish arche age would use a system like this in their game.
I'd probably try it since I haven't played anything like it yet. Who knows? I might enjoy it. I like games which are based on skill and not on equipments. Although, there's a good chance that it can't hold me for a long time. If it usually updates its content, then maybe yes. Or if it has a good story, and a good ending, then yes. But if there's really no progression besides looking cooler, then I'd probably quit after a few weeks.
Played: Runescape, Adventure Quest
Currently playing: Aika Global, Atlantica Online
Waiting for: Cardmon Hero, Dynasty Warriors Online
I think this is right on the money. UO was a perfect example of how it can very easily be done.
You're on a wrong forum, why don't you rather stick to your Counterstrike or Call of Duty. This is xxxRPG - which always involves skills, levels, and combat mechanics behind the curtain. If you want this super balance, which you mentioned, you are seriously looking for it within a wrong genre.
REALITY CHECK
So you're sdaying that Ultima Online never existed? That there was never an MMORPG - let alone the granndaddy of all MMORPG's - without levels? You're saying that MUD's without levels never existed? Perhaps you are on the wrong forum. The I haven't played any MMORPG's but WoW forum is thataway --->
Your icon does a good job reflecting your intellect and the quality of your posting.
Levels, ie progression. Whether it's a level progression or skills progression. That's pretty much what I was talking about and which is an alpha omega of each and every RPG. This kind of blockheaded questions and WoW insults just slow down the discussion. Can we move on?
REALITY CHECK
You're a little slow, aren't you? The OP is talking about total removal of all progression not just levels. UO had progression, just like every RPG game has. So UO is not a "perfect example" of what the OP is talking about. Why don't you take your time reading the original post, if you've got some reading problems.
REALITY CHECK
And you dare to send me back to WoW? I'm sending you back to school ninny to take a reading lesson again.
REALITY CHECK
nm
i think people are forgetting that not all games have levels, and that 'progression' isnt always a factor, its been done successfully in the past, the most innovative games that i've ever played, and the most fun, have not had character levels.. but it does seem like people can't get their head around that fact, and seem to think that for a game to be called a RPG .. MMO or otherwise, it must have levels, when this is clearly not the case. Level based systems are lazy mechanics, always have been, and nowhere is that more highlighted than in games where PVP is more than a token representation, Balancing issues, damage caps, the whole mule train that it brings to the table, level based problems. Which for me, is why level based systems only really work in PVE orientated games, and even then, theres the 'fudge factor' where area's become 'level zones' .. its a lazy system.
This is not a discussion of levels vs skills type of progression. OP is exclusively writing in his original post about removal of all progression. You choose the skills when you roll your character, and that's it. All progression in game is then limited to better graphical spell effects and so on. No progression that would involve mechanics.
Which would make the game be not within the xxxRPG genre, as RPG is strickly defined by character progression. Thus, I said this vision is much closer to games like Call of Duty or Counterstrike, rather than to MMORPG.
REALITY CHECK