All the 'scientific' and other reasons people give are nice and interesting, but they ignore the fact that it's a writers and source material reason. They're nice as explanations to maintain immersion in the game though.
Of course it's a writer's reason. But that doesn't take away the fact that extrapolating the past 500 years of technological advancement over all time and space is silly.
By the third trimester there will be hundreds of babies inside you.
by 2015 we'll have infinity-bladed razors
By 2025, an MP3 player will be the size of a molecule.
At the rate my hair is receding, I'll lose all the hair on my back by the time I'm 60.
Cars have gone from 20mph top speed to close to 300 MPH in 100 years. In another hundred years, cars will be able to go 4500 mph.
Your post really doesn't have any substance though, unfortunately.
It's one big pile of rhetoric and blanket generalizations based off the sole premise that because over the course of 3500 years in our universe technology would have made some sweeping advancements.
I don't even know why I visit these forums anymore, I think I'm going to stop entirely.
Actually his post had plenty of substance. Certainly enough to form a better response than the one you just provided.
As a general request to all those calling the op a troll, please give us a better explanation than 'because' as to why technology is at an apparent standstill in this universe.
Seems the only people willing to discuss this are those who find it strange, everyone else just accepts it as is and calls anyone who tries to think about it a troll.
That's false. Gobla has explained it to you in numerous threads, however it seems you are ignoring the posts that give logical answers to the OP's question. It seems some people have an agenda instead of a real concern about the lore.
i'd estimate a guess that technology has to stagnate once it reaches a certain point, because developing say weapons tech any further is almost a mute point. Why must it stagnate? Well lets look back at Kotor 1 shall we? Malak destroyed most of a planet with just one giant ship, what can feasibly top that? A weapon that can destroy the universe? At what point does building a better weapon just become silly, if you can already destroy planets then the need to increase destruction has already hit a hard limit, unless you can tell me what an even better weapon for destruction would be?
Top that off with the fact that wars they fought were different then wars we fought, it wasn't just a matter of dominating but destroying all infastructure and sciences/archives. Look back on say before the treaty of coruscant when the capital got sacked, most of all jedi records were destroyed, and many important people to the society were killed, having contious sacking of various center of growth does make it hard to contiously develop new technologies. Its not like a war that has been going on for 50 or even a 100 years, but more like 10,000 the fact is that many places that might have been developing technologies are being constantly destroyed.
Not only with the sacking of coruscant but the mandalorian wars and the mandalorian blockade also killed off a decent portion of the best and brightest in society, this isn't about one civilization wanting new weapons or money, but wanting complete and utter annihilation of the other civilization, its a different mindset.
"To the victor go the spoils."
I disagree that just because it's a different mindset that the level of advancement would slow. Technologies would advance on both sides with a mind to help to win the war. The eventual winner would most likely acquire them all (depending on how effective their spies were).
With regards to weapons, yep Malak in his ship practically destroyed that planet. Which would seem to make the death star more of a step backwards wouldn't you say? Still requiring an external shield generator despite having the power to destroy a planet without even a light flickering? Considering how big it was, you'd think they could have found the room on board somewhere.
How about weapons in general. Look at Bounty hunters. Arguably one of the most technology dependent professions and yet they never upgrade their weapons over that long a period of time? I mean sure, the classics are awesome but where's the new stuff?
Even robotics has seemingly laid stagnant. You'd think after 3500 years they'd have worked out how to make a protocol droid be able to move it's arms properly.
It is nice though to see someone actually try to put forward a decent explanation.
On a lighter note, Jedi learnt their most valuable lesson the day their records were destroyed. The lesson of offsite backups. :P
I'll address those points individually as best I can
In terms of just general technology growth its possible that there is growth in different sectors of a society since ship to ship combat is pretty much at what I would consider its best. We don't really get a feel of what the average person's home life is like, its always a story focused on combat and not the mundane citizen of coruscant in either the movies or the kotor games, so whose to say that technology advancement didn't happen but on a different front?
In terms of the death star, while obviously thats still one of the lamest endings to an epic fight and I concur that they should of protected it better. However you could attribute the entire notion of why it seems ass backwards to general arrogance, in our own history when we feel superior or know it alls, we think less of strategy because you know what could possibly go wrong, so you cutu costs. Then because of the cut costs something goes wrong, it could theoritcally be a case of that since we didn't really see where vader or palpatine got their parts from, who knows it could be third rate parts because they are so evil that they are penny pinchers.
Bounty hunters is a good point but I think there are some upgrade of maybe even downgrades really from the kotor universe. I remember there being items that blocked laser fire/light sabers and what nots in the kotor games, its possible that such a technology became lost or developed in other areas possibly made them cheaper and more affordable or vice versa. We never get a feel for the economy so that could be a potential contendor for development.
as a note to that as well, we don't know what happens between the large gap between kotor and the movies, so why does the technology downgrade or why do we see the technology seem to downgrade is anyones guess, but all we can hope is that there is some reasonable explenation.
As far as droids, who knows maybe people in the future are crazy and like their droids without arms, or everyone is a big doctor who fan even in the future and so they all love things that look like daleks.
I disagree that just because it's a different mindset that the level of advancement would slow. Technologies would advance on both sides with a mind to help to win the war. The eventual winner would most likely acquire them all (depending on how effective their spies were).
With regards to weapons, yep Malak in his ship practically destroyed that planet. Which would seem to make the death star more of a step backwards wouldn't you say? Still requiring an external shield generator despite having the power to destroy a planet without even a light flickering? Considering how big it was, you'd think they could have found the room on board somewhere.
How about weapons in general. Look at Bounty hunters. Arguably one of the most technology dependent professions and yet they never upgrade their weapons over that long a period of time? I mean sure, the classics are awesome but where's the new stuff?
Even robotics has seemingly laid stagnant. You'd think after 3500 years they'd have worked out how to make a protocol droid be able to move it's arms properly.
It is nice though to see someone actually try to put forward a decent explanation.
On a lighter note, Jedi learnt their most valuable lesson the day their records were destroyed. The lesson of offsite backups. :P
This is pretty much a pointless argument here. 3500 years really isn't that long in evolutionary or technological history. If you want to sit and base everything off of our own world, you have very clear distinctions on earth where technology was stagnant for 3500 years or longer, and much longer stints where we had life with absolutely not technological advancements that we can think of.
Extrapolate that to a universe much more advanced than ours, and much, much older. First, lets start by saying the moment you build a lightsaber, blaster (of varying degrees) and starships including star destroyers, then maybe we can talk about the next greatest leap in technological advancements rather than expansion, etc. across many galactic civilizations.
Next, consider that between the time of the old republic and the movies, you have planets that are wiped of life, and in some cases, no planets at all. Take Hoth as an example, where it is actually somewhat populated for TOR but mostly desolate come the films.
Ultimately when technology gets to a certain point, it will become stagnant, but more importantly, the worlds are so incredibly vast and varying even if there were technological advancements in any particular time frame, who's to say that they'd even become a major sweeping change in that same time?
Saying, "In 3500 years there MUST have been some kind of techological advancement." us like saying "Man in like 80 million years the Tyrannosaurus really should have had some evolutionary change. Longer arms maybe?"
Or perhaps once he got into a war with other dinosaurs maybe you think he could have crafted a lightsaber?
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out; Lightsabers were definitely "newer" in Old Republic than in the Darth Vader Chronicles. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
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Meh... I'll say that 3,500 is plausible and here's why (even discounting the fact that analyzing a fictional universe through the conditions of our own reality is as stupid and moronic as analyzing religion from a scientific standpoint - they don't belong in the same field, you can't get your answer through factual evidence, and as soon as you try, you're missing the point).
As stated in the thread, things get destroyed. Something will be developed that's technologically superior than what was before, ie. the deathstar in the movies or the adaptive, self-replicating, galaxy-conquering droid 'Hexes' in Fatal Alliance. These are usually created by the bad guys, and the good guys take 'em out and their creators. Likewise, the same happens whenever there is a regime change (ie. empire takes over, destroys centers of knowledge).
Whenever I see a new scifi universe that likes to space things out by thousands of years with little development apparent to the reader, perhaps simply because its not prudent to the story (and there are countless examples in books, star wars is by no means unique in that sense), I think of Firefly/Serenity. In that series, colonists set out to far away planets with the bare-essentials. That series is of a technologically superior time than us, and yet half the episodes were almost western-themed, simply because the expansion of colonists were so far apart and were befallen of so many wars and other troubles that there would have been times when technology would be lost or remain stagnant. If you apply the same rules of expansion to the Star Wars universe, which takes place over a much larger and more diverse setting, it isn't all that surprising.
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out. Lightsabers in Old Republic are fairly new technology. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Meh, I don't understand why they pick this easily explainable thing.
I mean why not pick something like being able to walk forward in a ship going at the speed of light thus meaning that you broke what was supposed to be the maximum speed of all matter and energy?
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I remember the thrill when I first saw Star Wars in a theater in January of 1977. I stood in those long lines four times so I could experince that movie again and again. George Lucas had an absolute gem on his hands.
I started playing Star Wars Galaxies three months after it released and have enjoyed it over the years. I remember it being a real pain in the butt to get that 'Warm Inner Glow'. I never became a Jedi, nor did I really want to. I remember Jedi as being extremely few and far between sightings of them since Darth Vader had been killing them off in droves.
Then CU/NGE came around and suddenly Jedi were breeding like rats and they were everywhere. IMHO it looks as though the same plague of Jedi/Sith will occur in SWTOR. I'm also hoping there will be a limit to the number of them since there are references in ALL of the movies that they were always few in number.
Why the reason the writers came up with the 3500 year storyline really needs to be looked at.
Weither it makes sense, is believeble, or not, is up for debate, but the fact that it absolutely must resemble Star Wars as fans know and see it, is not.
If they were to drastically change the settings, technology, civilization, etc, to better suit any time period (even if it were 1million years in the future), I would imagine a lot of people would be screaming 'This is not SW! They just slapped the name on some random game, rabble rabble rabble!'.
I guess that is one draw back to basing a game around an original property such as Star Wars, it has fans and those people have certain expectation, if those don't get delivered than you can kiss their $ goodbye.
This would be a different story if there were a widely accepted 'medeval' (lol) star wars stories/movies/games already preset in people's minds, but since there is not, than you are really just over thinking things if you feel what this game is really based around is "bogus".
An MMO is far from the place to drastically change the image(s) attached to the SW property.
I remember the thrill when I first saw Star Wars in a theater in January of 1977. I stood in those long lines four times so I could experince that movie again and again. George Lucas had an absolute gem on his hands.
I started playing Star Wars Galaxies three months after it released and have enjoyed it over the years. I remember it being a real pain in the butt to get that 'Warm Inner Glow'. I never became a Jedi, nor did I really want to. I remember Jedi as being extremely few and far between sightings of them since Darth Vader had been killing them off in droves.
Then CU/NGE came around and suddenly Jedi were breeding like rats and they were everywhere. IMHO it looks as though the same plague of Jedi/Sith will occur in SWTOR. I'm also hoping there will be a limit to the number of them since there are references in ALL of the movies that they were always few in number.
Why the reason the writers came up with the 3500 year storyline really needs to be looked at.
Well according to the kotor timeline jedi were way more numerous then when the movies took place, so it makes sense to have a lot of them. Hell you had tons and tons of jedi during the mandalorian wars, because well you needed them to find the mandalorians.
I don't think that is the biggest contradiction though, since how did they know that they were Always 100% few in numbers when most of their archives were destroyed?
Your post really doesn't have any substance though, unfortunately.
It's one big pile of rhetoric and blanket generalizations based off the sole premise that because over the course of 3500 years in our universe technology would have made some sweeping advancements.
I don't even know why I visit these forums anymore, I think I'm going to stop entirely.
Actually his post had plenty of substance. Certainly enough to form a better response than the one you just provided.
As a general request to all those calling the op a troll, please give us a better explanation than 'because' as to why technology is at an apparent standstill in this universe.
Seems the only people willing to discuss this are those who find it strange, everyone else just accepts it as is and calls anyone who tries to think about it a troll.
That's false. Gobla has explained it to you in numerous threads, however it seems you are ignoring the posts that give logical answers to the OP's question. It seems some people have an agenda instead of a real concern about the lore.
Have you actually read any of my posts?
I've addressed gobla's reasoning already and even agreed that his argument had merit. Unfortunately with so many responding at once I don't want to flood the thread with just my posts.
Interesting that you jump to the idea that I have an agenda though. Care to point out what exactly gave you that idea? I've been discussing as best I can but if I were to respond to every post I would fill a whole page of this thread.
What exactly is the logical answer though? That in an age of space exploration and war there would be no need to develop better technology? That technology at that point had come to it's peak and there is no where else for it to go?
Best idea I have seen so far was that ToR is set in a parallel universe. That at least would make sense.
The larger the civilization the harder it is to bring about sweeping changes. How many worlds do you think there are out there? How many of those are occupied militarily? How long do you think it would take for a military advancement to make such a sweep? I've addressed that in a previous post, but ultimately the only bogus part of this conversation is stating that this isn't plausible, as we have real world variances of this exact thing where culturally and technologically major jumps could have been brought forth during that time.
One of the biggest problems here is, we only have the beginning and the end of the story, and 3500 years missing in the middle. Perhaps new technology was released and then outlawed? Perhaps some technology was forgotten or too costly to keep up until the next great war? We don't know the whole story here, so saying that there MUST be some kind of advancement is kind of silly.
The OP makes the mistake by comparing it to earth and then by only looking to the past. If you are going to think about how Earth's technology will be in 3500 years and then in 7000 years from now, you will realise that if you think about what is possible within the laws of physics, that how further you would look into the future, how smaller the technological differences between long periods will be.
So when comparing to SWTOR, you could just as well compare Earth 3500 years from now and Earth 7000 years from now. There is no logical reason that you only have to look at the past of Earth, just because SWTOR happens 3500 year before the SW movies.
Originally posted by gobla Do you really think it's a valid conclusion to say that technology will always improve exponentially based on only 12.000 years of it?
Except the conclusion it is not based on timeline and yes, it is valid.
Technology will always advance exponentially because more of it you posses, faster it advance.
Stone age lasted for more than 2 mil. years followed by Bronze age that lasted about 2 thousands years only. With each new material discovery, human kind gained access to new tools and progressively opened paths for broad field of new technologies.
Since then the development was very rapid because an advancement in single technology was also affecting other fields.
I do agree that OP has a point and introducing a world that takes 3500 years back in time line without notable change in technology and completely missing reasonable explanation is a goof.
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out. Lightsabers in Old Republic are fairly new technology. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Meh, I don't understand why they pick this easily explainable thing.
I mean why not pick something like being able to walk forward in a ship going at the speed of light thus meaning that you broke what was supposed to be the maximum speed of all matter and energy?
History channel actually did a segment on this very problem. Something about "Gravity Stabalizers" that UFOs would use. Lol. Basically, allows you to control the ebb and flow of Gravity.
However, Futurama did it best. The Professor explained that the ship doesn't accel through space, but rather manipulates matter around the ship, causing it to "move" space around it. The ship isn't acceled at all, one could argue; Space is, which is why it needs so much Dark Matter to run it.
While none of this should be taken seriously, it's still cool to think about it it as if it were. Man has always dreamed of visiting areas far and beyond what we are capable of today. Something science tries to do every day.
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OP's question is the actually arguing what Bioware have done best in making their previous game and this one: Lore, Story, Atmosphere, Characterisation, Time-line, Narrative options, Companions and all the stuff necessary in solid world-building and making the RIGHT choice in allowing themselves some room and flexibility to USE the IP not the IP using them which often bogs down major titles. Bioware's excellent track record speaks for itself as does the amazing environments and likely colossal size of this game.
OP really does not have a leg to stand on... you can make fatious claims about eg "why is the moon the moon?" such questions don't need an answer.
What is worth being concerned about is the combat mechanic, pvp at the heart of the game. I have watched the footage and as much as I like all the above and the polish this worries me a lot for this title. Perhaps there are many more players where this seems fine, but I am concerned only about this and it does not look up to standard from the little I have seen.
What?
I would suppose this guy works for Bioware OR is a Fanboi with blinders fully closed. I don't CARE about the combat mechanic nor the PVP aspect. I've seen one possible answer to my original question which involves familiar ground for the Star Wars Universe and franchise ownership.
I would suggest Bioware get rid of the 3500 year remark and replace it with 100 to 150 years as being more realistic. Large ships used in Episode One looked to be one or two generations BEHIND the ships being displayed in SWTOR media.
Because they are. The classical/original Star Wars setting shown in the original Trilogy + the prequels has devolved, has stagnated from the GOLDEN AGE OF THE REPUBLIC that SW:ToR takes place in.
Your post really doesn't have any substance though, unfortunately.
It's one big pile of rhetoric and blanket generalizations based off the sole premise that because over the course of 3500 years in our universe technology would have made some sweeping advancements.
I don't even know why I visit these forums anymore, I think I'm going to stop entirely.
Actually his post had plenty of substance. Certainly enough to form a better response than the one you just provided.
As a general request to all those calling the op a troll, please give us a better explanation than 'because' as to why technology is at an apparent standstill in this universe.
Seems the only people willing to discuss this are those who find it strange, everyone else just accepts it as is and calls anyone who tries to think about it a troll.
I wouldn't go so far as to call the OP a troll. I'd just say his question is irrelevent in a fictional world.
Why do rabbits talk in Watership Down? Why do the Who's in Whoville live in a snowflake?
Fictional worlds are not bound to the same restrictions and mechanics that real ones are. That's the whole point of creating a fictional world in the first place. If the author doesn't make technological advancement an element to the story they create, then it's irrelevent to that story. Demanding to know why technology hasn't evolved much is just as relevent as demanding to know what happened to the vampire lookin' dude in Mos Eisely.
Technological advancement is clearly an element of the star wars universe because, well, they aren't throwing rocks at each other. They're in big space ships, they weren't just given that technology.
Technological advancement, and the existence of technology are two different things.
Also who's demanding? We're trying to discuss why technology has stagnated and the best response most can come up with is "It just has, stop trolling".
Ever read a book and wanted to discuss it with your friends? Same thing here. This is something that has bothered the OP and he's looking to discuss it. Unfortunately so many simply dismiss the conversation as rediculous and go through the trouble of actually saying so. Seems obvious to me that if you didn't wish to discuss lore then you should steer clear of the thread, but I guess that's just me.
Well, while I'd normally agree, the TITLE of this thread does not denote a curiosity regarding tech advancement. No, rather a condemnation of the IPbecause technological advancement doesn't evolve at the rate ours currently does.
Also, the rabbits talk in watership down because they are communicating with themselves and other animals. Same as in animals of farthing wood. You don't see them communicate with humans. Don't know who the who are though, sorry.
So your response, if I'm understanding, is that they do because they do. We know animals don't communicate in the manner that they do in WD. If so, I agree. They talk because it is necessary for the story that they do so. For Star Wars, evolutions in technology aren't necessary to tell the story, so it's irrelevent.
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out; Lightsabers were definitely "newer" in Old Republic than in the Darth Vader Chronicles. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
lightsabers are first made over 15,000 years before the movies.
The first lightsabers came into being when Jedi combined advanced offworld technology with a forging ritual, learning how to "freeze" a laser beam. By the time of the Duinuogwuin Contention around 15,500 BBY, their studies and researches with this "frozen blaster" technology yielded success; they developed a method to generate a focused beam of energy that arced circumferentially back to its source, creating a controlled energy circuit and leading to the first portable high-energy blades. However, these preliminary lightsabers were highly unstable and inefficiently guzzled power from a belt-mounted power supply; they could only be used for a brief duration before overheating. As a consequence of these flaws, the first lightsabers were little more than ceremonial objects, seldom worn, and much less utilized.
"…these archaic lightsabers were barely portable; their energy requirements necessitated a flexible cable that connected a lightsabers handle to a power pack worn on a Jedi's belt."
The extreme lack of stability that plagued the weapons early designs were gradually corrected through the ages, and the cumbersome and rarely used siege-weapons gave way to elegant and much more commonly used lightsabers. However, while these archaic lightsabers were far more stable than their ungainly predecessors, they still suffered from energy consumption issues, still requiring the belt-worn power pack of previous generations. The power-cable tended to restrict the wielders movements in battle and prevented the usage of force-powered and long range telekinetic saber combat. However, despite the shortcomings, the highly stable blades granted them a superior advantage in hand-to-hand combat against heavily-armored foes, and saw a great deal of use during the period of the Hundred-Year Darkness.
"A lightsaber is an interesting weapon. A blade unique in the history of warfare. A paradox, not unlike the Jedi who wield it: those peaceful warriors, who kill in the service of life. Have you ever noticed? The blade is round. It has no edge. But it is a lightsaber—which means it is nothing but edge. There is no part of this blade that does not cut. Curious, yes? Symbolic, one might say."
Jedi wielding modern lightsabers during the Naddist revolt.
Added by Greyman With Naga Sadow's invasion of the Republic in 5,000 BBY and the subsequent start of the Great Hyperspace War,[3] the technological innovations pioneered by the Sith Empire were brought to the Republic and the Jedi. However, the majority of Sith forces held to the use of Sith swords, while the Jedi continued to use the protosabers, as they had not yet had time to adapt and implement these new designs. With the Sith defeat at the end of the war, modern lightsabers were adopted by the Jedi order. By 4,800 BBY[source?] they were almost universally utilized by Jedi.
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out; Lightsabers were definitely "newer" in Old Republic than in the Darth Vader Chronicles. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
lightsabers are first made over 15,000 years before the movies.
The first lightsabers came into being when Jedi combined advanced offworld technology with a forging ritual, learning how to "freeze" a laser beam. By the time of the Duinuogwuin Contention around 15,500 BBY, their studies and researches with this "frozen blaster" technology yielded success; they developed a method to generate a focused beam of energy that arced circumferentially back to its source, creating a controlled energy circuit and leading to the first portable high-energy blades. However, these preliminary lightsabers were highly unstable and inefficiently guzzled power from a belt-mounted power supply; they could only be used for a brief duration before overheating. As a consequence of these flaws, the first lightsabers were little more than ceremonial objects, seldom worn, and much less utilized.
Please, lose the pictures. Just provide links. Takes up too much space. Thanks~
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Something I think a lot of you are missing/don't realize, is that the Old Republic era (also read as, the Golden Age of the Republic) was pretty much the height of the Galaxy's prowess and refinement. If we're going to draw, or attempt to draw, parallels between their galaxy and ours, think of it as the decline of architechture from art deco to the hideous, yet functionable monstrosities of the 60s.
The Empire having a complete monopoly on technology is, also, a huge reason for the 'look' of the original movies.
Do you really think it's a valid conclusion to say that technology will always improve exponentially based on only 12.000 years of it?
Except the conclusion it is not based on timeline and yes, it is valid.
Technology will always advance exponentially because more of it you posses, faster it advance.
Stone age lasted for more than 2 mil. years followed by Bronze age that lasted about 2 thousands years only. With each new material discovery, human kind gained access to new tools and progressively opened paths for broad field of new technologies.
Since then the development was very rapid because an advancement in single technology was also affecting other fields.
I do agree that OP has a point and introducing a world that takes 3500 years back in time line without notable change in technology and completely missing reasonable explanation is a goof.
Thats where you are wrong. The moment technology reaches the limits of what is possibile with in the laws of physics, progress will stagnate. Those great leaps are only possible in the beginning.
You dont know what there is still possible within the realm of Star Wars. Their technology is already more advanced then ours, so you can only fantasize about potential progress. The writers can for this reason make up anything they want what happens with technology in the 3500 years and itll stay valid.
Apart from that, Star Wars is not Star Trek. It always has been about simple good vs evil epic adventures. It doesnt try to recreate a Earth in the future.
Talk about bogus, this topic is full of it. Question, how is it that in the prequels everything is shiney and new, then 30 yrs later everything looks desolute and old. Even the sith were ancient and were supposed to be extict but were not. The jedi order were all but wiped out but was brought back by Luke. Does it really matter that SW technology 3500 yrs ago resembles what was happening in the prequels. It's SW and that's all that matters. In that galaxy far far away, they have many advanced technologies that while some have become a staple and while others may have been lost for whatever reason.
Comments
By 2025, an MP3 player will be the size of a molecule.
At the rate my hair is receding, I'll lose all the hair on my back by the time I'm 60.
Cars have gone from 20mph top speed to close to 300 MPH in 100 years. In another hundred years, cars will be able to go 4500 mph.
That's false. Gobla has explained it to you in numerous threads, however it seems you are ignoring the posts that give logical answers to the OP's question. It seems some people have an agenda instead of a real concern about the lore.
I'll address those points individually as best I can
In terms of just general technology growth its possible that there is growth in different sectors of a society since ship to ship combat is pretty much at what I would consider its best. We don't really get a feel of what the average person's home life is like, its always a story focused on combat and not the mundane citizen of coruscant in either the movies or the kotor games, so whose to say that technology advancement didn't happen but on a different front?
In terms of the death star, while obviously thats still one of the lamest endings to an epic fight and I concur that they should of protected it better. However you could attribute the entire notion of why it seems ass backwards to general arrogance, in our own history when we feel superior or know it alls, we think less of strategy because you know what could possibly go wrong, so you cutu costs. Then because of the cut costs something goes wrong, it could theoritcally be a case of that since we didn't really see where vader or palpatine got their parts from, who knows it could be third rate parts because they are so evil that they are penny pinchers.
Bounty hunters is a good point but I think there are some upgrade of maybe even downgrades really from the kotor universe. I remember there being items that blocked laser fire/light sabers and what nots in the kotor games, its possible that such a technology became lost or developed in other areas possibly made them cheaper and more affordable or vice versa. We never get a feel for the economy so that could be a potential contendor for development.
as a note to that as well, we don't know what happens between the large gap between kotor and the movies, so why does the technology downgrade or why do we see the technology seem to downgrade is anyones guess, but all we can hope is that there is some reasonable explenation.
As far as droids, who knows maybe people in the future are crazy and like their droids without arms, or everyone is a big doctor who fan even in the future and so they all love things that look like daleks.
This is pretty much a pointless argument here. 3500 years really isn't that long in evolutionary or technological history. If you want to sit and base everything off of our own world, you have very clear distinctions on earth where technology was stagnant for 3500 years or longer, and much longer stints where we had life with absolutely not technological advancements that we can think of.
Extrapolate that to a universe much more advanced than ours, and much, much older. First, lets start by saying the moment you build a lightsaber, blaster (of varying degrees) and starships including star destroyers, then maybe we can talk about the next greatest leap in technological advancements rather than expansion, etc. across many galactic civilizations.
Next, consider that between the time of the old republic and the movies, you have planets that are wiped of life, and in some cases, no planets at all. Take Hoth as an example, where it is actually somewhat populated for TOR but mostly desolate come the films.
Ultimately when technology gets to a certain point, it will become stagnant, but more importantly, the worlds are so incredibly vast and varying even if there were technological advancements in any particular time frame, who's to say that they'd even become a major sweeping change in that same time?
Saying, "In 3500 years there MUST have been some kind of techological advancement." us like saying "Man in like 80 million years the Tyrannosaurus really should have had some evolutionary change. Longer arms maybe?"
Or perhaps once he got into a war with other dinosaurs maybe you think he could have crafted a lightsaber?
Argue against it all you want, but the OP does bring up an interesting point. Also, to point out; Lightsabers were definitely "newer" in Old Republic than in the Darth Vader Chronicles. In the Star Wars movie, you can remember Han Solo commenting on how Lightsabers are "Old School" and "Doesn't replace a good blaster". Not surprising considering they're over 3500 years old! Still, it's a Fantasy game and I make no allusion to the contrary. I think everyone who's played Old Republic has thought about these glaring problems once or twice, too.
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Meh... I'll say that 3,500 is plausible and here's why (even discounting the fact that analyzing a fictional universe through the conditions of our own reality is as stupid and moronic as analyzing religion from a scientific standpoint - they don't belong in the same field, you can't get your answer through factual evidence, and as soon as you try, you're missing the point).
As stated in the thread, things get destroyed. Something will be developed that's technologically superior than what was before, ie. the deathstar in the movies or the adaptive, self-replicating, galaxy-conquering droid 'Hexes' in Fatal Alliance. These are usually created by the bad guys, and the good guys take 'em out and their creators. Likewise, the same happens whenever there is a regime change (ie. empire takes over, destroys centers of knowledge).
Whenever I see a new scifi universe that likes to space things out by thousands of years with little development apparent to the reader, perhaps simply because its not prudent to the story (and there are countless examples in books, star wars is by no means unique in that sense), I think of Firefly/Serenity. In that series, colonists set out to far away planets with the bare-essentials. That series is of a technologically superior time than us, and yet half the episodes were almost western-themed, simply because the expansion of colonists were so far apart and were befallen of so many wars and other troubles that there would have been times when technology would be lost or remain stagnant. If you apply the same rules of expansion to the Star Wars universe, which takes place over a much larger and more diverse setting, it isn't all that surprising.
Meh, I don't understand why they pick this easily explainable thing.
I mean why not pick something like being able to walk forward in a ship going at the speed of light thus meaning that you broke what was supposed to be the maximum speed of all matter and energy?
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I remember the thrill when I first saw Star Wars in a theater in January of 1977. I stood in those long lines four times so I could experince that movie again and again. George Lucas had an absolute gem on his hands.
I started playing Star Wars Galaxies three months after it released and have enjoyed it over the years. I remember it being a real pain in the butt to get that 'Warm Inner Glow'. I never became a Jedi, nor did I really want to. I remember Jedi as being extremely few and far between sightings of them since Darth Vader had been killing them off in droves.
Then CU/NGE came around and suddenly Jedi were breeding like rats and they were everywhere. IMHO it looks as though the same plague of Jedi/Sith will occur in SWTOR. I'm also hoping there will be a limit to the number of them since there are references in ALL of the movies that they were always few in number.
Why the reason the writers came up with the 3500 year storyline really needs to be looked at.
Weither it makes sense, is believeble, or not, is up for debate, but the fact that it absolutely must resemble Star Wars as fans know and see it, is not.
If they were to drastically change the settings, technology, civilization, etc, to better suit any time period (even if it were 1million years in the future), I would imagine a lot of people would be screaming 'This is not SW! They just slapped the name on some random game, rabble rabble rabble!'.
I guess that is one draw back to basing a game around an original property such as Star Wars, it has fans and those people have certain expectation, if those don't get delivered than you can kiss their $ goodbye.
This would be a different story if there were a widely accepted 'medeval' (lol) star wars stories/movies/games already preset in people's minds, but since there is not, than you are really just over thinking things if you feel what this game is really based around is "bogus".
An MMO is far from the place to drastically change the image(s) attached to the SW property.
Well according to the kotor timeline jedi were way more numerous then when the movies took place, so it makes sense to have a lot of them. Hell you had tons and tons of jedi during the mandalorian wars, because well you needed them to find the mandalorians.
I don't think that is the biggest contradiction though, since how did they know that they were Always 100% few in numbers when most of their archives were destroyed?
The larger the civilization the harder it is to bring about sweeping changes. How many worlds do you think there are out there? How many of those are occupied militarily? How long do you think it would take for a military advancement to make such a sweep? I've addressed that in a previous post, but ultimately the only bogus part of this conversation is stating that this isn't plausible, as we have real world variances of this exact thing where culturally and technologically major jumps could have been brought forth during that time.
One of the biggest problems here is, we only have the beginning and the end of the story, and 3500 years missing in the middle. Perhaps new technology was released and then outlawed? Perhaps some technology was forgotten or too costly to keep up until the next great war? We don't know the whole story here, so saying that there MUST be some kind of advancement is kind of silly.
The OP makes the mistake by comparing it to earth and then by only looking to the past. If you are going to think about how Earth's technology will be in 3500 years and then in 7000 years from now, you will realise that if you think about what is possible within the laws of physics, that how further you would look into the future, how smaller the technological differences between long periods will be.
So when comparing to SWTOR, you could just as well compare Earth 3500 years from now and Earth 7000 years from now. There is no logical reason that you only have to look at the past of Earth, just because SWTOR happens 3500 year before the SW movies.
Except the conclusion it is not based on timeline and yes, it is valid.
Technology will always advance exponentially because more of it you posses, faster it advance.
Stone age lasted for more than 2 mil. years followed by Bronze age that lasted about 2 thousands years only. With each new material discovery, human kind gained access to new tools and progressively opened paths for broad field of new technologies.
Since then the development was very rapid because an advancement in single technology was also affecting other fields.
I do agree that OP has a point and introducing a world that takes 3500 years back in time line without notable change in technology and completely missing reasonable explanation is a goof.
History channel actually did a segment on this very problem. Something about "Gravity Stabalizers" that UFOs would use. Lol. Basically, allows you to control the ebb and flow of Gravity.
However, Futurama did it best. The Professor explained that the ship doesn't accel through space, but rather manipulates matter around the ship, causing it to "move" space around it. The ship isn't acceled at all, one could argue; Space is, which is why it needs so much Dark Matter to run it.
While none of this should be taken seriously, it's still cool to think about it it as if it were. Man has always dreamed of visiting areas far and beyond what we are capable of today. Something science tries to do every day.
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Because they are. The classical/original Star Wars setting shown in the original Trilogy + the prequels has devolved, has stagnated from the GOLDEN AGE OF THE REPUBLIC that SW:ToR takes place in.
lightsabers are first made over 15,000 years before the movies.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber
The first lightsabers came into being when Jedi combined advanced offworld technology with a forging ritual, learning how to "freeze" a laser beam. By the time of the Duinuogwuin Contention around 15,500 BBY, their studies and researches with this "frozen blaster" technology yielded success; they developed a method to generate a focused beam of energy that arced circumferentially back to its source, creating a controlled energy circuit and leading to the first portable high-energy blades. However, these preliminary lightsabers were highly unstable and inefficiently guzzled power from a belt-mounted power supply; they could only be used for a brief duration before overheating. As a consequence of these flaws, the first lightsabers were little more than ceremonial objects, seldom worn, and much less utilized.
Early refinements
"…these archaic lightsabers were barely portable; their energy requirements necessitated a flexible cable that connected a lightsabers handle to a power pack worn on a Jedi's belt."
?Tionne Solusar[src]
The extreme lack of stability that plagued the weapons early designs were gradually corrected through the ages, and the cumbersome and rarely used siege-weapons gave way to elegant and much more commonly used lightsabers. However, while these archaic lightsabers were far more stable than their ungainly predecessors, they still suffered from energy consumption issues, still requiring the belt-worn power pack of previous generations. The power-cable tended to restrict the wielders movements in battle and prevented the usage of force-powered and long range telekinetic saber combat. However, despite the shortcomings, the highly stable blades granted them a superior advantage in hand-to-hand combat against heavily-armored foes, and saw a great deal of use during the period of the Hundred-Year Darkness.
Adoption by the Jedi
"A lightsaber is an interesting weapon. A blade unique in the history of warfare. A paradox, not unlike the Jedi who wield it: those peaceful warriors, who kill in the service of life. Have you ever noticed? The blade is round. It has no edge. But it is a lightsaber—which means it is nothing but edge. There is no part of this blade that does not cut. Curious, yes? Symbolic, one might say."
?Vergere[src]
With Naga Sadow's invasion of the Republic in 5,000 BBY and the subsequent start of the Great Hyperspace War,[3] the technological innovations pioneered by the Sith Empire were brought to the Republic and the Jedi. However, the majority of Sith forces held to the use of Sith swords, while the Jedi continued to use the protosabers, as they had not yet had time to adapt and implement these new designs. With the Sith defeat at the end of the war, modern lightsabers were adopted by the Jedi order. By 4,800 BBY[source?] they were almost universally utilized by Jedi.
Please, lose the pictures. Just provide links. Takes up too much space. Thanks~
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Something I think a lot of you are missing/don't realize, is that the Old Republic era (also read as, the Golden Age of the Republic) was pretty much the height of the Galaxy's prowess and refinement. If we're going to draw, or attempt to draw, parallels between their galaxy and ours, think of it as the decline of architechture from art deco to the hideous, yet functionable monstrosities of the 60s.
The Empire having a complete monopoly on technology is, also, a huge reason for the 'look' of the original movies.
Thats where you are wrong. The moment technology reaches the limits of what is possibile with in the laws of physics, progress will stagnate. Those great leaps are only possible in the beginning.
You dont know what there is still possible within the realm of Star Wars. Their technology is already more advanced then ours, so you can only fantasize about potential progress. The writers can for this reason make up anything they want what happens with technology in the 3500 years and itll stay valid.
Apart from that, Star Wars is not Star Trek. It always has been about simple good vs evil epic adventures. It doesnt try to recreate a Earth in the future.
Talk about bogus, this topic is full of it. Question, how is it that in the prequels everything is shiney and new, then 30 yrs later everything looks desolute and old. Even the sith were ancient and were supposed to be extict but were not. The jedi order were all but wiped out but was brought back by Luke. Does it really matter that SW technology 3500 yrs ago resembles what was happening in the prequels. It's SW and that's all that matters. In that galaxy far far away, they have many advanced technologies that while some have become a staple and while others may have been lost for whatever reason.
if you played kotor would find out where all tech for ships come from they never made it they found it