I'd interpret it to mean that they expect to pull more players INTO the MMO genre, rather than stealing players from current MMO's.
I consider that a good possibility, Matter of fact, that's really what WoW did, moreso than stealing them from older MMO's(which they also did to an extent).
Question is, will KotOR, DA, and ME players be as seduced into MMO's as Warcraft/Starcraft players were?
I'd interpret it to mean that they expect to pull more players INTO the MMO genre, rather than stealing players from current MMO's.
I consider that a good possibility, Matter of fact, that's really what WoW did, moreso than stealing them from older MMO's(which they also did to an extent).
Question is, will KotOR, DA, and ME players be as seduced into MMO's as Warcraft/Starcraft players were?
I hope not as that will further dillute the genre, if at all possible after WoW.
Some people seem to be hailing the fact that WoW brought 4+ million of non MMORPG gamers to the genre as a good thing but I question that.
Us who are interested in the more hardcore spectrum of the genre, what exactly has WoW brought for us? Not one single hardcore and/or sandbox triple A title have been released since WoW. They have ALL been casual, themeparks with quest focus which makes no sense in a persistant world and which has brought the focus away from the initial vision of a persistant virtual world and broght it more into mainstream, virtual themepark kind.
Not sure what that means but to me it sounds like they will not be catering to WoW players? I dunno, does not make much sense to me.
Also it seems that they need atleast 500k subs to be profitable but 1 million+ seems to be what they are expecting.
Getting back to the original post I would say that it doesn't mean they wont' be catering to wow players.
What it means is that they have figured out that 500k subs makes them profitable. But they aren't declaring that they are going after WoW as a market leader.
If they double those subs then it would change things even more significnalty for them (duh?).
For the record I believe this will challenge wow. It probably won't surpass it but the interest is exceptionally high. It's a highly visable IP known to young and old, gamers or non-gamers and is set up in such a way that one can play it as a single player game or take full advantage of the mmo aspects.
Given the throng of people who were waiting in line at PAX East I think this game will easily make that 1 million in box sales.
keeping those as subs will be another matter.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
No MMO ever is going to challenege WOW. its been 7 years now and it is getting boring.....give up. Just enjoy the MMO you play and stop this obsession with topping WOW.
I've been playing WoW on and off since the first open beta. While my guild has been waiting for new content to arrive, many of us have been playing rift. The other day, a few of us did a BWD run and I couldn't believe how much more dated the graphics looked to me.
You mention that WoW has been around 7 years. That's kind of the problem. It may continue to have the largest player base for a few more years, but the game is horrible to look at, and making insignificant changes to how the water looks doesn't really do much to alter that. Even Blizzard knows this, that's why they're working on a new MMO. The next couple of years will most likely give rise to a number of games that will challenge WoW. If you're an undeterred fanboy, good for you, but nothing lasts forever.
And what makes you think that millions of players play WOW for its graphics? its about gameplay and that is why WOW is the king and will remain on top in coming years. it has nothing to do with being a fanboy considering the longest i have played WOW was for 6 months last year. But i also do not live in denial and like to use logic from time to time.
As far as next couple of years giving rise to number of MMOS to challenege WOW, been there done that. Sorry not happening.
I played WoW for a loooooooooong time. I am not disputing that the gameplay has the broadest appeal in the current MMO market, but after over half a decade most can admit it has become stale. I know plenty of people that are quitting and not replacing it with another game. And even if the gameplay were still satisfying after all this time, I find the presentation to be unacceptable. I have a nice rig, I don't want to play a PS1 game online. Many others agree, and while one game may not necessarily be poised to overtake WoW right now, the combination of a few will almost certainly pull away enough numbers to make Blizzard take notice. Log into Org and tell me that place doesn't look like a ghost town compared to the time around ICC or the launch of Cata.
All this means is that there isn't going to be enough of the insulting hamster wheel grind that Blizzard fans seem to enjoy to pull them away from their "game."
I never really buy into the hype as I have learned my lessons in the past. I now go on the reputation of a studio, developer, or producer. I just hope to enjoy the game as much as I enjoy other BioWare games. I think TOR will have no problems selling one million units. I think more gamers are inclined to try this game because it is Bio Ware making it.
No MMO ever is going to challenege WOW. its been 7 years now and it is getting boring.....give up. Just enjoy the MMO you play and stop this obsession with topping WOW.
It will happen, it just will take time. The older WoW gets, and the lack of content will bore players. They need a major graphics update, and a TON of new content added to the current content. WoW is a good game don't get me wrong, but I think they went in a very bad direction with almost nothing to do but grind. Of course this is just my opinion, and everyone has their own.
I really wish EQ2 had gotten things right at release, because that game really is a great game, and has a TON of content. Hopefully TOR and Rift and other mmo's will take their example with that. More content is better. We don't neccessarilly need new gear every month to grind, and new levels. Just more stuff to do.
I hope it doesn't pull any of the "WoW Players" in because I don't want them flooding the chats with useless garbage, complaining about difficulty (if this game will indeed be difficult, probably not), then flooding it with mass amounts of people creating the need for many many servers, then quitting a month later, causing these servers to die. (instead of just not playing and allowing the servers to stay full after their "flavor of the month" itch is over)
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
I hope it doesn't pull any of the "WoW Players" in because I don't want them flooding the chats with useless garbage, complaining about difficulty (if this game will indeed be difficult, probably not), then flooding it with mass amounts of people creating the need for many many servers, then quitting a month later, causing these servers to die. (instead of just not playing and allowing the servers to stay full after their "flavor of the month" itch is over)
You do know, most MMO players have played WoW? Saying you dont want WoW players basically kills the game. Think about it
Nope, I don't think they said stuff like that about Warhammer, but sure, if they made the exact same comments, please feel free to link. Else I'm just going to assume that it's of the level of random commenting from WoW fans that don't very much like other MMO's that could be a threat to WoW (in their eyes)
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I hope it doesn't pull any of the "WoW Players" in because I don't want them flooding the chats with useless garbage, complaining about difficulty (if this game will indeed be difficult, probably not), then flooding it with mass amounts of people creating the need for many many servers, then quitting a month later, causing these servers to die. (instead of just not playing and allowing the servers to stay full after their "flavor of the month" itch is over)
You do know, most MMO players have played WoW? Saying you dont want WoW players basically kills the game. Think about it
Yeah good point, but most games seem to die anyways...or on the verge of...regardless of all these players or not.
But it is true, most people have played WoW.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
You do know, most MMO players have played WoW? Saying you dont want WoW players basically kills the game. Think about it
Maybe. But what made Wow as big as it is were the fact that Blizzard worked hard to get the Blizzard fans to try the game, not EQ or UO fans.
I think Bioware should try to aim for Bioware fans, not Wow players as their main focus group.
Companies like Mythic made the misstake of trying to steal Wow players instead of attracting it's own fans, and that rarely works.
That doesn't mean a company should discourage players from other games to change to theirs but make a good game that try to do it's own thing instead of trying to steal as much as you can from others and your chances of success will go up, not down.
I am not sure if Bioware is doing that or not, I guess we have to wait and see.
No MMO ever is going to challenege WOW. its been 7 years now and it is getting boring.....give up. Just enjoy the MMO you play and stop this obsession with topping WOW.
I've been playing WoW on and off since the first open beta. While my guild has been waiting for new content to arrive, many of us have been playing rift. The other day, a few of us did a BWD run and I couldn't believe how much more dated the graphics looked to me.
You mention that WoW has been around 7 years. That's kind of the problem. It may continue to have the largest player base for a few more years, but the game is horrible to look at, and making insignificant changes to how the water looks doesn't really do much to alter that. Even Blizzard knows this, that's why they're working on a new MMO. The next couple of years will most likely give rise to a number of games that will challenge WoW. If you're an undeterred fanboy, good for you, but nothing lasts forever.
And what makes you think that millions of players play WOW for its graphics? its about gameplay and that is why WOW is the king and will remain on top in coming years. it has nothing to do with being a fanboy considering the longest i have played WOW was for 6 months last year. But i also do not live in denial and like to use logic from time to time.
As far as next couple of years giving rise to number of MMOS to challenege WOW, been there done that. Sorry not happening.
Sorry, but how is WoW gameplay "king"? It has no unique features that can't be found in other games. Advertising to casuals and momentum are the things that make WoW "king"
It's the "King" because of it's established, in-depth game play. WoW has a few things, but DEPTH is not one of them, almost all its features are as simple as possible Just look at all the features; raiding It's watered down raiding with "one way to win" bosses, limited to an extremely small number of people, and sequestered off into instances , BGs Really poor unbalanced PvP that doesn't matter because its basically an FPS server that has no bearing on the real game, piss poor compared to DAoC BGs , Arena Yay, something almost every MMO has had since 1999, valor/justice point system rewards aka, extra grind, factions a dumbed down simple version of something every MMO has had since 1997, proffesions ect ect a dumbed down simple version of something every MMO has had since 1997. It's highly developed and the uniqueness what uniqueness? It doesn't do anything that other games don't do better is the quality it has which no game has yet to be on par with you mean, smooth animations? Good to know what the bar for "quality" is now. No I'm not a WoW player, quite and gonna remain so, however not acknowledging their position is just plain ignorant. You claim that I'm ignorant, yet its clear from your post you've hardly played any MMOs.
I personally could care less if TOR tops WoW in subs, reviews, or any of that. As long as the game has a steady enough player base and subs to stay profitable and enough to add content to make my time with the game enjoyable, ill be more than happy. And id rather have half the subscription base of WoW, and none of the annoying community that its made up of (not everyone, but a pretty big majority), than to have 12 million subscribers.
QFE. This is all speculation but I suspect that the game will sell 1.5-2 million boxes/downloads on release. If the story is as fun and engaging as previews are indicating then at least half that number will subscribe past that first month. Bioware is taking their time to make sure that this is done right, so I doubt we'll see game breaking issues like bugs,lag,rubberbanding,broken missions and the host of other problems that SWG had at launch(and still had for years afterwards.)
This is a dumb post. I have seen a post just like this on every game sence MMo's 1st came out.
1st no one could beat EQ
2nd no one can beat WoW
3rd no one can beat ??????? some game in the future
I say who cares!!!!!!
If SW: TOR is a game you like play it
If WoW is a game you like then play it
If insert MMo you like then play it
If a game does not beat WoW. Do you really think that people will not play that game? I think so there are a ton of MMos out there and none are WoW but all have a lot of people playing them.
The way i see it is that any new mmorpg coming out in the near future should be aiming to challenge themselves..if they can do that then we the gamers should be getting good quality games without any problem with good communities of course...SWTOR and GW2 are hopefully trying to do a good job in that respect because those are the big mmorpgs that i am looking forward to..
You do know, most MMO players have played WoW? Saying you dont want WoW players basically kills the game. Think about it
Maybe. But what made Wow as big as it is were the fact that Blizzard worked hard to get the Blizzard fans to try the game, not EQ or UO fans.
I think Bioware should try to aim for Bioware fans, not Wow players as their main focus group.
Companies like Mythic made the misstake of trying to steal Wow players instead of attracting it's own fans, and that rarely works.
That doesn't mean a company should discourage players from other games to change to theirs but make a good game that try to do it's own thing instead of trying to steal as much as you can from others and your chances of success will go up, not down.
I am not sure if Bioware is doing that or not, I guess we have to wait and see.
Well said. If Bioware wanted to copy WOW they wouldn't have bothered with story,voiceovers and player choice. It would have just been NPCs with their usual boring walls of text that almost no one reads. Combat would be hack n slash with nothing else.They also would have better pigeonholed the classes and not bothered with multiple companions.
From many of the postings I've seen in the TOR forums, the majority of them have played Bioware games. Of course everyone has at one time or another played WOW and have their own opinions on that game. The other group is SWG players before and after the NGE.It's obvious that this is going to be KOTOR taken to the next level so fans of KOTOR should eat this up.
Nope, I don't think they said stuff like that about Warhammer, but sure, if they made the exact same comments, please feel free to link. Else I'm just going to assume that it's of the level of random commenting from WoW fans that don't very much like other MMO's that could be a threat to WoW (in their eyes)
Nope, I don't think they said stuff like that about Warhammer, but sure, if they made the exact same comments, please feel free to link. Else I'm just going to assume that it's of the level of random commenting from WoW fans that don't very much like other MMO's that could be a threat to WoW (in their eyes)
? I thought you found it crap if they're challenging WoW.
But now I read that you find it crap that they were saying that WAR wouldn't be a WoW killer?? And you also find it crap if of SWTOR they're aiming their goals to pragmatic targets and no 'WoW killer stuff'?!?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Really a pointless thread until we get to play the game.
SO now ill bite. As a one time officer in a great Ever Quest guild. Who had typically 130+ people log on for 72 person raids. I remember when this "thing" called World of Warcraft was hitting the market.
We all laughed. PPfftt EQ was king. We had over 250k subs. That was HUGE! Nothing was close to us. We would never be toppled.
About a month later i had a lvl 20ish warlock, while raiding in EQ i had a 2nd computer i was playing WoW on.......
Point being. Blizz took the best features of all the games out there. Polished them and made upgrades to their game. Against all the odds their product became King. And the reality is that this doesnt happen very often. We have all seen these games come and go.
TO be honest it isnt typically the game makers that proclaim that they are the EQ or now the WoW killers but us the players (that said there have been a few that have tried) So as far as SW:ToR. Only time will tell. Until we get to try the game for ourselfs and make our own opions. Who knows?
Comments
I'd interpret it to mean that they expect to pull more players INTO the MMO genre, rather than stealing players from current MMO's.
I consider that a good possibility, Matter of fact, that's really what WoW did, moreso than stealing them from older MMO's(which they also did to an extent).
Question is, will KotOR, DA, and ME players be as seduced into MMO's as Warcraft/Starcraft players were?
I hope not as that will further dillute the genre, if at all possible after WoW.
Some people seem to be hailing the fact that WoW brought 4+ million of non MMORPG gamers to the genre as a good thing but I question that.
Us who are interested in the more hardcore spectrum of the genre, what exactly has WoW brought for us? Not one single hardcore and/or sandbox triple A title have been released since WoW. They have ALL been casual, themeparks with quest focus which makes no sense in a persistant world and which has brought the focus away from the initial vision of a persistant virtual world and broght it more into mainstream, virtual themepark kind.
For me that is ALL bad.
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Their ongoing lack of release is still glaringly not tempting away WoW's population at all right now.
It's probably not a great idea for EA to constantly compare TOR to WoW.
Getting back to the original post I would say that it doesn't mean they wont' be catering to wow players.
What it means is that they have figured out that 500k subs makes them profitable. But they aren't declaring that they are going after WoW as a market leader.
If they double those subs then it would change things even more significnalty for them (duh?).
For the record I believe this will challenge wow. It probably won't surpass it but the interest is exceptionally high. It's a highly visable IP known to young and old, gamers or non-gamers and is set up in such a way that one can play it as a single player game or take full advantage of the mmo aspects.
Given the throng of people who were waiting in line at PAX East I think this game will easily make that 1 million in box sales.
keeping those as subs will be another matter.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I played WoW for a loooooooooong time. I am not disputing that the gameplay has the broadest appeal in the current MMO market, but after over half a decade most can admit it has become stale. I know plenty of people that are quitting and not replacing it with another game. And even if the gameplay were still satisfying after all this time, I find the presentation to be unacceptable. I have a nice rig, I don't want to play a PS1 game online. Many others agree, and while one game may not necessarily be poised to overtake WoW right now, the combination of a few will almost certainly pull away enough numbers to make Blizzard take notice. Log into Org and tell me that place doesn't look like a ghost town compared to the time around ICC or the launch of Cata.
All this means is that there isn't going to be enough of the insulting hamster wheel grind that Blizzard fans seem to enjoy to pull them away from their "game."
Edit: or maybe they haven't revealed it yet...
I never really buy into the hype as I have learned my lessons in the past. I now go on the reputation of a studio, developer, or producer. I just hope to enjoy the game as much as I enjoy other BioWare games. I think TOR will have no problems selling one million units. I think more gamers are inclined to try this game because it is Bio Ware making it.
It will happen, it just will take time. The older WoW gets, and the lack of content will bore players. They need a major graphics update, and a TON of new content added to the current content. WoW is a good game don't get me wrong, but I think they went in a very bad direction with almost nothing to do but grind. Of course this is just my opinion, and everyone has their own.
I really wish EQ2 had gotten things right at release, because that game really is a great game, and has a TON of content. Hopefully TOR and Rift and other mmo's will take their example with that. More content is better. We don't neccessarilly need new gear every month to grind, and new levels. Just more stuff to do.
didnt Mythic say the same crap about Warhammer?
oh wait,,,,, Bioware/Mythic now.
C what I did thar?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I hope it doesn't pull any of the "WoW Players" in because I don't want them flooding the chats with useless garbage, complaining about difficulty (if this game will indeed be difficult, probably not), then flooding it with mass amounts of people creating the need for many many servers, then quitting a month later, causing these servers to die. (instead of just not playing and allowing the servers to stay full after their "flavor of the month" itch is over)
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
You do know, most MMO players have played WoW? Saying you dont want WoW players basically kills the game. Think about it
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Nope, I don't think they said stuff like that about Warhammer, but sure, if they made the exact same comments, please feel free to link. Else I'm just going to assume that it's of the level of random commenting from WoW fans that don't very much like other MMO's that could be a threat to WoW (in their eyes)
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah good point, but most games seem to die anyways...or on the verge of...regardless of all these players or not.
But it is true, most people have played WoW.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Maybe. But what made Wow as big as it is were the fact that Blizzard worked hard to get the Blizzard fans to try the game, not EQ or UO fans.
I think Bioware should try to aim for Bioware fans, not Wow players as their main focus group.
Companies like Mythic made the misstake of trying to steal Wow players instead of attracting it's own fans, and that rarely works.
That doesn't mean a company should discourage players from other games to change to theirs but make a good game that try to do it's own thing instead of trying to steal as much as you can from others and your chances of success will go up, not down.
I am not sure if Bioware is doing that or not, I guess we have to wait and see.
QFE. This is all speculation but I suspect that the game will sell 1.5-2 million boxes/downloads on release. If the story is as fun and engaging as previews are indicating then at least half that number will subscribe past that first month. Bioware is taking their time to make sure that this is done right, so I doubt we'll see game breaking issues like bugs,lag,rubberbanding,broken missions and the host of other problems that SWG had at launch(and still had for years afterwards.)
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
This is a dumb post. I have seen a post just like this on every game sence MMo's 1st came out.
1st no one could beat EQ
2nd no one can beat WoW
3rd no one can beat ??????? some game in the future
I say who cares!!!!!!
If SW: TOR is a game you like play it
If WoW is a game you like then play it
If insert MMo you like then play it
If a game does not beat WoW. Do you really think that people will not play that game? I think so there are a ton of MMos out there and none are WoW but all have a lot of people playing them.
The way i see it is that any new mmorpg coming out in the near future should be aiming to challenge themselves..if they can do that then we the gamers should be getting good quality games without any problem with good communities of course...SWTOR and GW2 are hopefully trying to do a good job in that respect because those are the big mmorpgs that i am looking forward to..
Well said. If Bioware wanted to copy WOW they wouldn't have bothered with story,voiceovers and player choice. It would have just been NPCs with their usual boring walls of text that almost no one reads. Combat would be hack n slash with nothing else.They also would have better pigeonholed the classes and not bothered with multiple companions.
From many of the postings I've seen in the TOR forums, the majority of them have played Bioware games. Of course everyone has at one time or another played WOW and have their own opinions on that game. The other group is SWG players before and after the NGE.It's obvious that this is going to be KOTOR taken to the next level so fans of KOTOR should eat this up.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
SWOTOR vs WoW
GW2 vs WoW
RIFT vs WoW
...........................................sick of WoW already .
http://www.qj.net/mmorpg/news/ea-mythic-gm-says-warhammer-wont-be-a-wow-killer.html
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
How you forget WoW vs WoW ?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
? I thought you found it crap if they're challenging WoW.
But now I read that you find it crap that they were saying that WAR wouldn't be a WoW killer?? And you also find it crap if of SWTOR they're aiming their goals to pragmatic targets and no 'WoW killer stuff'?!?
Right...
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Really a pointless thread until we get to play the game.
SO now ill bite. As a one time officer in a great Ever Quest guild. Who had typically 130+ people log on for 72 person raids. I remember when this "thing" called World of Warcraft was hitting the market.
We all laughed. PPfftt EQ was king. We had over 250k subs. That was HUGE! Nothing was close to us. We would never be toppled.
About a month later i had a lvl 20ish warlock, while raiding in EQ i had a 2nd computer i was playing WoW on.......
Point being. Blizz took the best features of all the games out there. Polished them and made upgrades to their game. Against all the odds their product became King. And the reality is that this doesnt happen very often. We have all seen these games come and go.
TO be honest it isnt typically the game makers that proclaim that they are the EQ or now the WoW killers but us the players (that said there have been a few that have tried) So as far as SW:ToR. Only time will tell. Until we get to try the game for ourselfs and make our own opions. Who knows?