IT's only too bad you can't sell a character via this system. It would be wonderful to be able to sell a specific character from an account and it be transfered to the buyers account, all items/equipment/stats migrated completely. This would be accompanied by the usual percentage for Blizzard, but I'm ok with that.
If we are selling our item-based achievements, why not the characters as well?
Last I remember, most of the best items are not going to be tradable/sellable. (For those talking about pvp balance and being buy 2 win)
A lot of items a BOP or BOE, that is true (even though I am not sure they will be in Diablo 3).
But it is still a somewhat worrying trend.
First the P2P games started to charge you for small extra services, lie character transfers, name changes and so on.
Then they added the RMT shops which sells fluff, mounts and in some cases (like EQ2) XP pots.
Now they seems to let people buy and sell stuff for real cash while taking a percentage.
To me it seems like the P2P games gets more and more greedy, if they need more money they could just raisse the monthly fees a little instead of this, I fear they will kill the P2P games altogether eventually with all this stuff.
Just 3 years ago you either played a game with a cashshop or monthly fees, only the gods know what alternatives there will be in another 3 years.
I have a feeling that Arenanet are readying champagne bottles...
IT's only too bad you can't sell a character via this system. It would be wonderful to be able to sell a specific character from an account and it be transfered to the buyers account, all items/equipment/stats migrated completely. This would be accompanied by the usual percentage for Blizzard, but I'm ok with that.
If we are selling our item-based achievements, why not the characters as well?
IT's only too bad you can't sell a character via this system. It would be wonderful to be able to sell a specific character from an account and it be transfered to the buyers account, all items/equipment/stats migrated completely. This would be accompanied by the usual percentage for Blizzard, but I'm ok with that.
If we are selling our item-based achievements, why not the characters as well?
That is probably the next step, yes.
Once that is implemented, I will resume efforts to legalize the selling of my children via e-bay. These are of course items I have obtained through quests and toils that I should be able to make a profit on.
Once that is implemented, I will resume efforts to legalize the selling of my children via e-bay. These are of course items I have obtained through quests and toils that I should be able to make a profit on.
No, but that is because traditional values who say nothing about avatars and games.
There is not that much difference between selling the items you get and your characters and if Blizzard and SOE can get away with the first the second will happen as well.
The whole purpose of playing an MMO or RPG is is just lost if you can buy the best equipment with real money, you don´t even need to play cause the game gets boring so fast then. I never ever would buy something ingame for real money, NEVER.
And if you think you can make some money of it, forget it. The game will be flooded with china farmers and bots even more than before. And forget about someone giving you items for free cause you are new or whatever, it wont happen cause every item is real money worth. Doesnt sound good to me for a GAME, bad bad choice on blizzards part. There will be just so much more scammers, hackers and idiots than ever before.
I have the feeling Diablo3 will fail hard, sure I will play but probably just for a month or so with only arenas (lol @ fair PvP), no PK and other bad gameplay decisions it seems so d3 wont be as good as d2 . Don´t get me wrong, I never myself pked but it was part of the game and when someone pissed you off it was your decision to hostile and kill him. Also it was fun when you was so much better than everyone else in a PvP game and it was like 1 vs 7. It seems so D3 will be a real pussy game with arena, items buying with real money, comic graphics and no pk.
Arena ok for ppls who like it but pls leave the option to create PvP games like in d2, I really lost my faith in Blizzard just look what they did with WoW till today its just a shadow of what it once was .....
And ppl who defend all this bullcrap were probably those ppls who anyways just bought at ebay and china farming sites, THUMBS DOWN.
Well, I'm with others who cannot stand Really Moronic Transactions in any form. The games that encourage it. And the players who fall for it.
Seriously, I only play games where it is "illegal", and if I come across a player that admits to it, I'll refuse to have anything to do with him or her.
Rift has no RMT and given the pace that Trion is developing that game I'll be happy for quite some time. If there comes a time when there is no MMO without RMT... well, then that's it for me. I could always take up table-top gaming again.
Hehe. Imagine playing AD&D and a player pulls out his wallet, hands over $20 to the DM and gets a sword of decapitation +5. Yeah, that's real fun. *rolls eyes*
I don't care about third party sites and how unsafe they are or that they infest the game I play. If people want to take that risk I say let them. I'm more accepting of that then this Blizzard endorsed RMT shop.
Except it's Blizzard who pays for they stupidity. Be it by losing customer(who will blame Blizzard of course) or by offering supporft for hacked accounts. It's nice to be a knight with shiny armour on white horse when You don't pay no consequences for Your actions.
That's why In another post I made, I wish developers would develop a no tolerance and no support for hacked accounts. It should just be an automated response. I have absolutely no pity for little jimmy that knows nothing about computers, viruses and phishing scams. If you fall for it too bad. Learn to use technology.
The only thing developers should be doing is secure their own networks. Not help people that click on the wrong links
If people want to minimax, in a game, they will play whatever that rewards, them most. XP, loot. In D2, people farm memphisto 24/7 b/c he is the most cost effective venue for top loots, except a few that he cannot drop. Money or no money people will be going for the most profitable farming location.
i sure hope that with millions of suppliers, price will be driven down to dirt cheap, of course, I am hoping people want to make money out of it, and not spend. I may be dreaming.
It doesn't really matter, the game is still not yet in beta. We will know in due course.
Per what I highlighted in your quote, what you said is what I'm trying to get at, only from a slightly different perspective.
I'm a min/maxer. Not only within the game, but also to a lesser extent in real life with my time and money. The place I was farming that I got the drops I later sold, was the best place in the game to farm. But it was also tedious to be there because it was very difficult, so I only went there every now and then. But prior to my decision to sell anything, going there was about trying to progress my character by getting a rare drop. It was still about the game and progressing in it, so it was still enjoyable for me... but I did't spend all my time ingame there.
Once I sold my items however, I had opened pandora's box of suddenly attaching a dollar value on my time spent ingame. From that point on, If I wasn't spending my ingame time in the dungeon I felt like I was wasting time because being in the dungeon was the biggest payoff, so my enjoyment of the game outside of farming died. But I also didn't enjoy only spending time farming either, it became very repetitive, boring, and actually stressful to be farming there for so long. The game was no longer about having fun, it was about earning money. I was no longer playing an MMO that was an immersive virtual world, I was spending time in a virtual slot machine as a second job.
Which is why I'm so against RMT. I play my games for them to be games, and not to be about money. When RMT becomes widely involved in a game, even if I try to avoid participating in it myself, I get stuck back in that same situation where I start to equate all my ingame time to how much real world value I'm earning. Which means the game is no longer a game or enjoyable for me, it's just a poorly paying second job.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
And then there's all the people whos only argument is that RMT=pay2win. Please, someone name off all the AAA titles that have cash shops that are pay to win.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
I ll simply play something else. There are plenty of alternatives. Problem solved too.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
I ll simply play something else. There are plenty of alternatives. Problem solved too.
Same, I still have Borderlands and Torchlight installed
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
I hardly care what others do with their copy of diablo, this is a coop game, practically a solo game, only joining with friends I know in person
But with all the recent events, I am very likely going to drop D3
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
For a lot of people against RMT it's not about ego. It's about the fact that spending 5 hours trying to get something that can alternatively be bought for $5, is an absolute waste of time to spend those 5 hours getting. But if you're paying to get the achievement because it's more time/money efficient, why are you even in a game that you're paying to avoid playing?
Not everyone thinks this way, but a lot of people do. I do, which is why they simply avoid RMT games and instead play games that are only about playing the game, and not about how much real world money things cost.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
For a lot of people against RMT it's not about ego. It's about the fact that spending 5 hours trying to get something that can alternatively be bought for $5, is an absolute waste of time to spend those 5 hours getting. But if you're paying to get the achievement because it's more time/money efficient, why are you even in a game that you're paying to avoid playing?
Not everyone thinks this way, but a lot of peopel do. WHich is why they simply avoid RMT games and instead play games that are only about playing the game, and not about how much real world money things cost.
You play with your 5 hours, someone play with his $5 and spent his time on something else. There is no conflict there. Not that he impose his style on you, nor do I see the rationale in your judgment of his decision.
This after all, is still a free world. Everyone is free to avoid or adopt RMT as they see fit.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
For a lot of people against RMT it's not about ego. It's about the fact that spending 5 hours trying to get something that can alternatively be bought for $5, is an absolute waste of time to spend those 5 hours getting. But if you're paying to get the achievement because it's more time/money efficient, why are you even in a game that you're paying to avoid playing?
Not everyone thinks this way, but a lot of peopel do. WHich is why they simply avoid RMT games and instead play games that are only about playing the game, and not about how much real world money things cost.
You play with your 5 hours, someone play with his $5 and spent his time on something else. There is no conflict there. Not that he impose his style on you, nor do I see the rationale in your judgment of his decision.
This after all, is still a free world. Everyone is free to avoid or adopt RMT as they see fit.
I am dropping D3 altogether for now.
There's a conflict for me.
The mere option of being able to pay to avoid the grind makes the game about real money. If I can spend what equates to costing a fraction of what I make an hour in my day job, or spend several hours grinding... well spending time grinding is an extremely inefficient use of my time. But if I pay money to avoid playing the game, then why am I even playing the game at all?
Yes, no one but myself is imposing that little tidbit of paradoxal logic bomb on my own enjoyment... but I can't help it, that's just how I think. I'm a min/maxer, and I try to take the most efficient and effective path so long as it's within the game rules. In RMT games, that path is usually the one that requires paying money to avoid the grind, aka, paying not to play the game. This is completely self-defeating though, because I'm paying extra to avoid playing the game, which is basically throwing my money away.
It's all just a hell of a lot easier for me to just play games that don't support RMT. I know that limits my choices, but I'm fine with that. The industry has, and will continue to, offer alternatives that aren't infested with RMT, because there are still a lot of people who want their games to be about the gameplay, and not about money.
That's one of the many reasons why I'll be playing Torchlight 2, and not Diablo 3.
Well, I'm with others who cannot stand Really Moronic Transactions in any form. The games that encourage it. And the players who fall for it.
Seriously, I only play games where it is "illegal", and if I come across a player that admits to it, I'll refuse to have anything to do with him or her.
Rift has no RMT and given the pace that Trion is developing that game I'll be happy for quite some time. If there comes a time when there is no MMO without RMT... well, then that's it for me. I could always take up table-top gaming again.
Hehe. Imagine playing AD&D and a player pulls out his wallet, hands over $20 to the DM and gets a sword of decapitation +5. Yeah, that's real fun. *rolls eyes*
I think alot of player's these days have never had any real experiances with table top games, sad really...
It's hard to say with Diablo exactly where its sales will be. Certainly, I am expecting strong pre-release sales and a strong inital sales built up by the massive Blizzard publicaity machine and it's nearly sycophantic thrid-party followers on the web. BUT, and here is the point just how good an action RPG it really is will be the key factor. Let's put it bluntly, Although Diablo 3 looks good...it doesn't look great. as games go. I just think it the sort of game you might play through once or twice and then move on from. As a result I think that although cash auction house is a way of legalising the "slavery" of item farming and then creaming off an "unofficial" sub by the transaction charge on each sale I am thinking the volume won't be WoW-like in numbers. So...although Auction houses are a bad idea in sub games as the transaction charge is really just nickle and diming of the players since they paid a box fee and sub, I don't think Diablo 3 strong enough to get WoW numbers online so it will feel just like buying and playing Diablo2 albeit with updated graphics and a sort of new RPG story.
Originally posted by Starpower That's why In another post I made, I wish developers would develop a no tolerance and no support for hacked accounts. It should just be an automated response. I have absolutely no pity for little jimmy that knows nothing about computers, viruses and phishing scams. If you fall for it too bad. Learn to use technology. The only thing developers should be doing is secure their own networks. Not help people that click on the wrong links
Sadly this way company will only open a different can of worms. As long as Your game is popular people will be hacked and not only those who will go on fishy websites, but everyone. I mean the only sure way top prevent hacking Your PC is to stay offline. Otherwise You are vulnerable. Surely Your attitude and knowledge may increase or decrease the chance, but it won't make You immune. I heard about keylogger hiding on cat veterinary website in some flash banner. You visit it without suspecting anything, don't have newest flash or You have just a bad luck as security hole wasn't fixed yet and boom, You're hacked...
Anyhow if company doesn't care about hacked people they still will lose them as paying customers. Less profits. And do consider fact many of Your customers don't have big PC knowledge and won't really know what did they do wrong. Telling them it's just their fault, go away, is basically making a bad PR, that will backlash on Your company fast.
I think we should legalize cocaine. We can't prevent it. There will always be people buying it from shady dealers that employ third world peasants to pack and distribute it.
Since we can't beat it and people are going to buy it anyway. Why not profit from it. It's a win win
Let's not start the "Well RMT is here to stay arguments". So is genital herpes. It doesn't mean It's a good thing and we all should get with the program
The reasons RMT was banned in the past and the reason cocaine is banned are vastly different.
RMT was banned in the past simply because it wasn't what the developers initially intended. It doesn't necessarily mean that the act of selling virtual goods is bad or harmful. In fact, its pretty much irrelevant in a mostly pve game.
Cocaine is illegal because it kills people. Once real money transactions start resulting in the loss of lives feel free to bring that crap back to the forums, but until then your feeble arguments hold no weight.
Oh I perfectly know those types exist, you get no argument there. I'm just not one of them. You see you can't categorize me based on your own stereotypes. That's your first mistake
I'll tell you what happens. I see Diabloplayer_001 with uber sword of doom, then realize my own sword sucks. My first thought is to ask him where he got it. Then I will proceed to farm those mobs to see If I can get lucky. End of story
With RMT or RMAH I don't even want to ask. It's a moot question. He could have gotten it from a mob or the RMAH. It doesn't really matter. That's hypothetical because It's a situation that could never happen. It would require I get an attitude change towards RMT which I won't
Ok you have me confused here, you see a guy with an awesome weapon and ask how he got it, thats cool all but i don't understand your RMT portion. You recognize the RMTs and don't bother asking? So are you assuming someone with unreal gear is cheating?
i win at typos
I'm not even debtaing if this is good for the industry or not. If players embraces it then I'm the dinosaur that has to find another hobby. I'm strictly trying to explain how this is affecting me. Not how this is affecting everyone
Didn't see that tidbit, however the players are already embracing this.. eventually you will lose a hobby if thats your stance. Which is fine as i used to have a similar stance aswell and have quit MMO's in the past because of it.
What players are embracing this? All I see is the same small crowd cheering RMT on while the masses just bite their tongue and tolerate it because they think they have no other option. The majority of players are more neutral about the topic, because they don't percieve it as having any effect them, because they'll just play the game and try to avoid the RMT.
Small crowd? only on this site because most still think D3 is an MMO and have no idea what this game even is. RMT makes more than most of the games themslves.. lol.
As for losing a hobby for having a stance agaisnt RMT... the existence of RMT in games is exactly the point of contension causing those of us who dislike RMT to lose our hobby. It's not a matter of acceptance of it, because it's mere existence causes said games to no longer register as hobbies because the drive of the game becomes money and not the game itself. Not everyone percieves it like this, but this is just how it is for a lot of people. Many will simply never accept RMT.
A lot more accept RMT than you think, i hated RMT for quite awhile but yanno after 15+ years you kinda get used to it and accept it.
As for losing a hobby anyways... you know, people like yourself keep saying that. That RMT is the future and that we just have to suck it up and take it. Otherwise we'll have nothing to play because everything will have RMT. And yet, I look around and what I see is big name developers adding RMT, and indie companies coming up with games that are fun and enjoyable, and they have no RMT what-so-ever.
As for losing a hobby.. again? RMT is the future take it or leave.Now what are you talking about? Almost every MMO now has RMT in some form. What indie companies are you talking about?
Torchlght 2 for example, will be a great alternative to Diablo 3, and best of all it doesn't support RMT like Diablo 3. The market will continue to produce RMTless games, because there will always be a considerable segment of gamers that want pure RMTless games.
I agree with this that TL2 will be a nice alternative to D3, it will have alot more issues concerning online play than D3 but still be good. The market may produce RMTless games just in less demand, its getting quite small.
If you ask me, the only people losing their hobby over RMT, is the people who support it. RMT games are composed of two groups, those who throw money into a virtual pit, and those who take on a job that pays far less than minimum wage. Either way, you lose.
So wait people who RMT will lose their hobby because they RMT with games that support RMT? What is an RMT game for one? I mean every game has RMT illegal or non. As for the groups who are in these games, uh well there is more than 2 so you're wrong. Some people don't view it as throwing it away as it is their enjoyment or entertainment. Others sell Virtual goods to get a few extra bucks, they didn't make it a job. Some people do make it a job but make far far far more than minimum wage. Some spends the bucks to keep up with their friends since they can't play as much. I mean there are a lot of reasons people RMT. I could go on for quite awhile.
All i am telling you is that you're obviously ignorant on the subject.
1) You have no real basis to make an accurate claim as to what percentage of gamers engage in RMT and what percentage don't. Simply put, you don't have access to the raw data to make such conclusions. No one does, not even the pundits who claim they do. About the best anyone can do is those running the RMT shops who can look at their own numbers in isolation.
What you have is some anecdotal evidence and an observation that alot of companies are trying to get in on the RMT action. It's no surprise that many companies are doing that as they see it as a potential extra revenue. That doesn't mean that it's neccesarly popular with consumers. Companies and whole industries all the time try to push extra revenue streams on consumers, even when there is no demand for it. Some things are driven by consumers others are driven by companies trying to maximize thier profits.
For example, look at alot of the surcharges that airlines have been trying to push lately (for example even charging for the first checked bag...or charging for movies, refreshments and meals that used to be free). One could hardly make a logical arguement that these charges were popular with consumers. They were simply an example of airlines trying to find avenues of increasing thier revenues. However, there has been a pushback among many consumer segments over these....and some airlines are starting to retreat from thier position on these as they've observed that they are starting to loose certain market segments to competitors who aren't pushing such extra charges. That's the way the free market works when consumers act in thier own interests.
2) What you are arguing for is a form of self-fullfilling prophecy or self-defeatism. Developers will have absolutely no incentive to AVOID getting into the RMT game if consumers simply throw up thier hands in defeat. Why would they?
It's only when consumers start making thier preferences known with thier wallets that Developers will stand up and take notice. Nothing speaks louder to a business then lost sales & dropping subscription numbers. Again this is how the free market works.
The WORST thing that people who dislike RMT in thier games can do is throw up thier hands and say "Oh well, RMT is inevitable...I'll just try to ignore it and purchase these products anyway". That's a self-defeating attitude. It's only when consumers say "I really don't want this sort of gaming experience and I won't patronize products that support it." that the companies who make games will take notice and moderate thier RMT ambitions. They'll do that because they will recognize that there is a profitable market segment out there for non-RMT games....and if they have product offerings in that area then they will be able to capture customers that thier RMT competitors can't.
This is definately NOT a lost cause either. There have been a number of high profile cases where Developer have changed or moderated thier RMT offerings because thier customer base reacted negatively to it. They may not have entirely retreated from thier RMT ambitions (and it often is a bumpy and slow road for consumer preferences to shape industry offerings) but they certainly have changed or eliminated some of the more egregious details of how they were implimented.
In point of fact, the only people who are served by telling others not to express thier distaste for RMT offerings in games are those who have a vested interest in thier adoption. Either because they intend to engage in them...or they intend to profit off them.
How do you pay-to-win a PvE lobby game? In D1 and D2, the only experienced cheapened by cheaters was their own. In fact, D1 taught me the virtue of playing "legit" because one-shotting diablo on hell-difficulty was just boring. It's time the next generation learned the same lesson.
"First, it is money grabbing by default regardless of the percentage..." Commie rhetoric. No one's got their hands in your pockets. They've offered you a service and a price - accept or decline.
You should know that there will be a ladder pvp system in D3.Thats how it becomes pay to win.And just imagine playing in hardcore mode and losing your character to a guy that just spent 200$ in the AH.How would that make you feel?
More ignorance, Blizzard confirmed no RMAH for hardcore. Blizzard has also yet to confirm ladder of any kind.
I just found out about hardcore mode not having RMAH. But you should also know that there be a competetive pvp Arena in this game.So you can still pay to win against other players.
A true confident player will take all odds and weather it, and not blame his defeat on any excuse.
Those who whine and cry foul after being defeat and yet try to put up a face as hardcore gamers are really pathetic. You play, you lose. Try again next time.
In the real world, the country with more money to spend on its army will likely command an army with better odds to win. Can Iraq blame its defeat in the desert war on the US GDP, does it matter? Defeat is defeat, swallow it and keep trying.
Game /= real world warfare. In RL warfare, cheating and not playing by the rules is a good thing....because real lives are at stake. No ones life is at stake in a game.
It's more like the Olympics or even Little League baseball..... HOW you win is way more important then WHETHER you win.
You make no sense.And you dont get the point. And your example here is completely inacurate.This is a game.If i want to compete with other players,i would like it to be in fair ways.Doesnt matter if my enemy is better or worse.
Do athletes that lose a gold medal to a milisec by a drugged player feel happy about it? I dont think so.Its the same here.People should not get stronger in game, by using $$$$.
What is fair? So long as the rules are clearly laid down, and everyone has access to each tool, it is fair.
Do you cry foul if someone richer than you outbids you in an auction?
Everyone has the option to use the same RMAH, or in-game AH. Everyone sees the same AH listing, and enjoys the same rights in bidding, selling. Everyone has access to the same selection of classes. Everything is fair.
That is fairness. That is enough, and that is really not necessary in a game. I do not mind fighting someone who has better chances to beat me in a game, that is another form of challenge, and so long as I do not need to pay a heavy fine for losing, I do not mind if I end up defeated or not.
Its a game, voluntary game.
So is baseball....so is the Olympics. Want you aren't getting is that this is an arguement about what the rules of the game SHOULD be.
For example, if you're kid plays Little League.... you aren't going to be happy if some parent comes along and says well I should be able to buy my kids team extra at bats during an inning or hire a AAA pitcher to pitch for them so they have a higher chance of winning.
Chances are you are going to say "That's not what this game and this League is about. That's not how we want to play here and that's not what we want to teach our kids about sportsmanship and competition, take that somewhere else."
Comments
IT's only too bad you can't sell a character via this system. It would be wonderful to be able to sell a specific character from an account and it be transfered to the buyers account, all items/equipment/stats migrated completely. This would be accompanied by the usual percentage for Blizzard, but I'm ok with that.
If we are selling our item-based achievements, why not the characters as well?
A lot of items a BOP or BOE, that is true (even though I am not sure they will be in Diablo 3).
But it is still a somewhat worrying trend.
First the P2P games started to charge you for small extra services, lie character transfers, name changes and so on.
Then they added the RMT shops which sells fluff, mounts and in some cases (like EQ2) XP pots.
Now they seems to let people buy and sell stuff for real cash while taking a percentage.
To me it seems like the P2P games gets more and more greedy, if they need more money they could just raisse the monthly fees a little instead of this, I fear they will kill the P2P games altogether eventually with all this stuff.
Just 3 years ago you either played a game with a cashshop or monthly fees, only the gods know what alternatives there will be in another 3 years.
I have a feeling that Arenanet are readying champagne bottles...
That is probably the next step, yes.
Once that is implemented, I will resume efforts to legalize the selling of my children via e-bay. These are of course items I have obtained through quests and toils that I should be able to make a profit on.
No, but that is because traditional values who say nothing about avatars and games.
There is not that much difference between selling the items you get and your characters and if Blizzard and SOE can get away with the first the second will happen as well.
The whole purpose of playing an MMO or RPG is is just lost if you can buy the best equipment with real money, you don´t even need to play cause the game gets boring so fast then. I never ever would buy something ingame for real money, NEVER.
And if you think you can make some money of it, forget it. The game will be flooded with china farmers and bots even more than before. And forget about someone giving you items for free cause you are new or whatever, it wont happen cause every item is real money worth. Doesnt sound good to me for a GAME, bad bad choice on blizzards part. There will be just so much more scammers, hackers and idiots than ever before.
I have the feeling Diablo3 will fail hard, sure I will play but probably just for a month or so with only arenas (lol @ fair PvP), no PK and other bad gameplay decisions it seems so d3 wont be as good as d2
. Don´t get me wrong, I never myself pked but it was part of the game and when someone pissed you off it was your decision to hostile and kill him. Also it was fun when you was so much better than everyone else in a PvP game and it was like 1 vs 7. It seems so D3 will be a real pussy game with arena, items buying with real money, comic graphics and no pk.
Arena ok for ppls who like it but pls leave the option to create PvP games like in d2, I really lost my faith in Blizzard just look what they did with WoW till today its just a shadow of what it once was .....
And ppl who defend all this bullcrap were probably those ppls who anyways just bought at ebay and china farming sites, THUMBS DOWN.
Well, I'm with others who cannot stand Really Moronic Transactions in any form. The games that encourage it. And the players who fall for it.
Seriously, I only play games where it is "illegal", and if I come across a player that admits to it, I'll refuse to have anything to do with him or her.
Rift has no RMT and given the pace that Trion is developing that game I'll be happy for quite some time. If there comes a time when there is no MMO without RMT... well, then that's it for me.
I could always take up table-top gaming again.
Hehe. Imagine playing AD&D and a player pulls out his wallet, hands over $20 to the DM and gets a sword of decapitation +5. Yeah, that's real fun. *rolls eyes*
That's why In another post I made, I wish developers would develop a no tolerance and no support for hacked accounts. It should just be an automated response. I have absolutely no pity for little jimmy that knows nothing about computers, viruses and phishing scams. If you fall for it too bad. Learn to use technology.
The only thing developers should be doing is secure their own networks. Not help people that click on the wrong links
Per what I highlighted in your quote, what you said is what I'm trying to get at, only from a slightly different perspective.
I'm a min/maxer. Not only within the game, but also to a lesser extent in real life with my time and money. The place I was farming that I got the drops I later sold, was the best place in the game to farm. But it was also tedious to be there because it was very difficult, so I only went there every now and then. But prior to my decision to sell anything, going there was about trying to progress my character by getting a rare drop. It was still about the game and progressing in it, so it was still enjoyable for me... but I did't spend all my time ingame there.
Once I sold my items however, I had opened pandora's box of suddenly attaching a dollar value on my time spent ingame. From that point on, If I wasn't spending my ingame time in the dungeon I felt like I was wasting time because being in the dungeon was the biggest payoff, so my enjoyment of the game outside of farming died. But I also didn't enjoy only spending time farming either, it became very repetitive, boring, and actually stressful to be farming there for so long. The game was no longer about having fun, it was about earning money. I was no longer playing an MMO that was an immersive virtual world, I was spending time in a virtual slot machine as a second job.
Which is why I'm so against RMT. I play my games for them to be games, and not to be about money. When RMT becomes widely involved in a game, even if I try to avoid participating in it myself, I get stuck back in that same situation where I start to equate all my ingame time to how much real world value I'm earning. Which means the game is no longer a game or enjoyable for me, it's just a poorly paying second job.
I love that the whole problem about people not liking the RMT auction is that they are butthurt that others can buy the same stuff they spent hours getting.
You seriously have that much ego that you can't let others spend money instead of time to get the items they want?
Seriously, How is this going to affect you? JUST DON'T RMT. Problem solved.
And then there's all the people whos only argument is that RMT=pay2win. Please, someone name off all the AAA titles that have cash shops that are pay to win.
I ll simply play something else. There are plenty of alternatives. Problem solved too.
Same, I still have Borderlands and Torchlight installed
I hardly care what others do with their copy of diablo, this is a coop game, practically a solo game, only joining with friends I know in person
But with all the recent events, I am very likely going to drop D3
For a lot of people against RMT it's not about ego. It's about the fact that spending 5 hours trying to get something that can alternatively be bought for $5, is an absolute waste of time to spend those 5 hours getting. But if you're paying to get the achievement because it's more time/money efficient, why are you even in a game that you're paying to avoid playing?
Not everyone thinks this way, but a lot of people do. I do, which is why they simply avoid RMT games and instead play games that are only about playing the game, and not about how much real world money things cost.
You play with your 5 hours, someone play with his $5 and spent his time on something else. There is no conflict there. Not that he impose his style on you, nor do I see the rationale in your judgment of his decision.
This after all, is still a free world. Everyone is free to avoid or adopt RMT as they see fit.
I am dropping D3 altogether for now.
There's a conflict for me.
The mere option of being able to pay to avoid the grind makes the game about real money. If I can spend what equates to costing a fraction of what I make an hour in my day job, or spend several hours grinding... well spending time grinding is an extremely inefficient use of my time. But if I pay money to avoid playing the game, then why am I even playing the game at all?
Yes, no one but myself is imposing that little tidbit of paradoxal logic bomb on my own enjoyment... but I can't help it, that's just how I think. I'm a min/maxer, and I try to take the most efficient and effective path so long as it's within the game rules. In RMT games, that path is usually the one that requires paying money to avoid the grind, aka, paying not to play the game. This is completely self-defeating though, because I'm paying extra to avoid playing the game, which is basically throwing my money away.
It's all just a hell of a lot easier for me to just play games that don't support RMT. I know that limits my choices, but I'm fine with that. The industry has, and will continue to, offer alternatives that aren't infested with RMT, because there are still a lot of people who want their games to be about the gameplay, and not about money.
That's one of the many reasons why I'll be playing Torchlight 2, and not Diablo 3.
If you think this is a bad idea, the only thing you can do is NOT buy the game.
The consumer has the real power. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
If they see poor sales, they'll learn; however, I doubt there'll be poor sales on a diablo title.
The no offline play mixed with the real cash auction/shop should turn a lot of people off though...
I think alot of player's these days have never had any real experiances with table top games, sad really...
your AD&D analogy rings so true lol.
Hey I'll give you 10 real bucks for Boardwalk
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's hard to say with Diablo exactly where its sales will be. Certainly, I am expecting strong pre-release sales and a strong inital sales built up by the massive Blizzard publicaity machine and it's nearly sycophantic thrid-party followers on the web. BUT, and here is the point just how good an action RPG it really is will be the key factor. Let's put it bluntly, Although Diablo 3 looks good...it doesn't look great. as games go. I just think it the sort of game you might play through once or twice and then move on from. As a result I think that although cash auction house is a way of legalising the "slavery" of item farming and then creaming off an "unofficial" sub by the transaction charge on each sale I am thinking the volume won't be WoW-like in numbers. So...although Auction houses are a bad idea in sub games as the transaction charge is really just nickle and diming of the players since they paid a box fee and sub, I don't think Diablo 3 strong enough to get WoW numbers online so it will feel just like buying and playing Diablo2 albeit with updated graphics and a sort of new RPG story.
Sadly this way company will only open a different can of worms. As long as Your game is popular people will be hacked and not only those who will go on fishy websites, but everyone. I mean the only sure way top prevent hacking Your PC is to stay offline. Otherwise You are vulnerable. Surely Your attitude and knowledge may increase or decrease the chance, but it won't make You immune. I heard about keylogger hiding on cat veterinary website in some flash banner. You visit it without suspecting anything, don't have newest flash or You have just a bad luck as security hole wasn't fixed yet and boom, You're hacked...
Anyhow if company doesn't care about hacked people they still will lose them as paying customers. Less profits. And do consider fact many of Your customers don't have big PC knowledge and won't really know what did they do wrong. Telling them it's just their fault, go away, is basically making a bad PR, that will backlash on Your company fast.
The reasons RMT was banned in the past and the reason cocaine is banned are vastly different.
RMT was banned in the past simply because it wasn't what the developers initially intended. It doesn't necessarily mean that the act of selling virtual goods is bad or harmful. In fact, its pretty much irrelevant in a mostly pve game.
Cocaine is illegal because it kills people. Once real money transactions start resulting in the loss of lives feel free to bring that crap back to the forums, but until then your feeble arguments hold no weight.
1) You have no real basis to make an accurate claim as to what percentage of gamers engage in RMT and what percentage don't. Simply put, you don't have access to the raw data to make such conclusions. No one does, not even the pundits who claim they do. About the best anyone can do is those running the RMT shops who can look at their own numbers in isolation.
What you have is some anecdotal evidence and an observation that alot of companies are trying to get in on the RMT action. It's no surprise that many companies are doing that as they see it as a potential extra revenue. That doesn't mean that it's neccesarly popular with consumers. Companies and whole industries all the time try to push extra revenue streams on consumers, even when there is no demand for it. Some things are driven by consumers others are driven by companies trying to maximize thier profits.
For example, look at alot of the surcharges that airlines have been trying to push lately (for example even charging for the first checked bag...or charging for movies, refreshments and meals that used to be free). One could hardly make a logical arguement that these charges were popular with consumers. They were simply an example of airlines trying to find avenues of increasing thier revenues. However, there has been a pushback among many consumer segments over these....and some airlines are starting to retreat from thier position on these as they've observed that they are starting to loose certain market segments to competitors who aren't pushing such extra charges. That's the way the free market works when consumers act in thier own interests.
2) What you are arguing for is a form of self-fullfilling prophecy or self-defeatism. Developers will have absolutely no incentive to AVOID getting into the RMT game if consumers simply throw up thier hands in defeat. Why would they?
It's only when consumers start making thier preferences known with thier wallets that Developers will stand up and take notice. Nothing speaks louder to a business then lost sales & dropping subscription numbers. Again this is how the free market works.
The WORST thing that people who dislike RMT in thier games can do is throw up thier hands and say "Oh well, RMT is inevitable...I'll just try to ignore it and purchase these products anyway". That's a self-defeating attitude. It's only when consumers say "I really don't want this sort of gaming experience and I won't patronize products that support it." that the companies who make games will take notice and moderate thier RMT ambitions. They'll do that because they will recognize that there is a profitable market segment out there for non-RMT games....and if they have product offerings in that area then they will be able to capture customers that thier RMT competitors can't.
This is definately NOT a lost cause either. There have been a number of high profile cases where Developer have changed or moderated thier RMT offerings because thier customer base reacted negatively to it. They may not have entirely retreated from thier RMT ambitions (and it often is a bumpy and slow road for consumer preferences to shape industry offerings) but they certainly have changed or eliminated some of the more egregious details of how they were implimented.
In point of fact, the only people who are served by telling others not to express thier distaste for RMT offerings in games are those who have a vested interest in thier adoption. Either because they intend to engage in them...or they intend to profit off them.
Game /= real world warfare. In RL warfare, cheating and not playing by the rules is a good thing....because real lives are at stake. No ones life is at stake in a game.
It's more like the Olympics or even Little League baseball..... HOW you win is way more important then WHETHER you win.
So is baseball....so is the Olympics. Want you aren't getting is that this is an arguement about what the rules of the game SHOULD be.
For example, if you're kid plays Little League.... you aren't going to be happy if some parent comes along and says well I should be able to buy my kids team extra at bats during an inning or hire a AAA pitcher to pitch for them so they have a higher chance of winning.
Chances are you are going to say "That's not what this game and this League is about. That's not how we want to play here and that's not what we want to teach our kids about sportsmanship and competition, take that somewhere else."