Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
Oh and on that sandwich argument, if you were the owner of the facility, and you wrote the instructions for eatign the sandwich out, and made your customer sign those instructions off as an official contract BEFORE he got the sandwich....well then yes, you could kick his ass out for eating it wrong.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
a player repeatedly looting chests that are put in the game TO BE LOOTED.
Yes, the chest is there to be looted. It is not there to be looted for hours over and over purposedly and intentionally, yet by lower level character.
You did not know or you thought it's intended? Your bad, ignorance and lack of critical thinking is no excuse.
Because most people are not doing the same as you are doing and other in-game activities offer a fraction of the rewards you are getting by repeatedly looting the chest, your behavior and obtained rewards is a deviation from normal game play. You did not realize that, still think it is normal? Once again, bad for you.
At this point you have 3 options:
1) You report it as something unusual.
2) You keep doing it.
3) You stop doing it.
You made your pick, you bear the consequences.
That's the difference between regular player and exploiter - one report things and stop doing them, the other one keeps doing them. Choice is yours.
Ummm....why not? That's like saying:
"Yes mobs are there for you to kill, but not over and over again by higher level characters!"
If the chest spawns...it's there to be looted. If you can get to it WITHOUT EXPLOITING, it's fair game.
Like I said...if the player was exploiting a BUG, then it's different. But there shouldn't be any rules against farming a chest...whatever level you are. As long as you can get to it, it's fair game. If BW designed the game so that farming chests is more valuable than anything else, then that's a problem and they should probably fix it.
Oh also, by your definition, I am definitely an exploiter. Here's an example of one of my exploits. I did a dungeon yesterday in Rift that is intended for 5 people with only 3 (all in the level range of the dungeon). We did this by having 2 tanks and a support class, despite the game clearly wanting us to have 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support, and 1 healer.
By doing this, we greatly increased the chance of each of us getting a better reward (since there are less people to split it amongst). Is this an exploit? Did I exploit the game by not doing what the developer intended me to do? Should I have notified Trion that their dungeon is faulty because we completed it with 3 people when it should have required 5?
Originally posted by Creslin321 "cheating" or "gaining an unfair advantage" I see as creativity, problem solving, and strategy. Which is actually a large part of why I enjoy games. I like to strategize and think of the best ways to solve problems.
It is indeed creativity, problem solving and strategy but there is a clear line when you find this "strategy" and when you exploit it.
You can always report it. It is your choice not to do so an exploit it instead.
Your lack of resolution ability or will is no excuse.
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
The problem is how unclear it is what is and exploit and what isn't.
Take treasure hunting... i make all my money from it... I can just stand in a station sending my companions out to find lockboxes that contain credits... more credits than it takes to send them out on the mission. So I just stand there in the station... continously sending my companions out to find lockboxes while I stay alt tabbed watching videos or something....
It rediculously easy money that requires no movement or effort on my part... seems to good to be true.... so is it an exploit... am I gonna have to submit a ticket everytime i find something like this just to make sure I dont get banned for a mechanic that may or may not be broken?
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
We live in strange times when extremist right wing views on crime and puniment are injected in a discussion forums dedicated to video games. yes we know you want people to die for credit farming or worse then being banned go to their homes and arrest the familys for knowing this person. but this is a video game not a teabagger rally for womens rights.
It's bad form to ban a person playing a video game when the developers are responsible for gating the access to the content they claim people are exploiting. in more simple terms, put a dam level requirement on it.
it's also hard to tell the difference from someone transfering large sums of credits and a gold farmer making a transaction. this is where we enter the realm of injecting real world criminal laws with a virtual world that supposed to allow a player to do things they could never do in real life.
If game designers and the companys don't stop pretending the law of the land in RL are not the same in their made-up worlds we will have problems.
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
Oh and on that sandwich argument, if you were the owner of the facility, and you wrote the instructions for eatign the sandwich out, and made your customer sign those instructions off as an official contract BEFORE he got the sandwich....well then yes, you could kick his ass out for eating it wrong.
I don't think we're arguing that BW isn't within their rights to ban people. I mean, it's their game, and I'm sure their ToS says they can pretty much ban you for whatever reason they want.
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
The problem is how unclear it is what is and exploit and what isn't.
Take treasure hunting... i make all my money from it... I can just stand in a station sending my companions out to find lockboxes that contain credits... more credits than it takes to send them out on the mission. So I just stand there in the station... continously sending my companions out to find lockboxes while I stay alt tabbed watching videos or something....
It rediculously easy money that requires no movement or effort on my part... seems to good to be true.... so is it an exploit... am I gonna have to submit a ticket everytime i find something like this just to make sure I dont get banned for a mechanic that may or may not be broken?
Tell you what, when I get off work today I will pull up the agreement we ALL signed off on when we started playing this game, and I will find you the section that tells you all about using exploits and how its against the rules. I'll do ALL that work for you, find it for you, write it out here for you, I'll even explain it for you in simple terms, just so you dont have to work too hard to understand the rules you agreed to when you started playing this game.
Look people, if your ignorant wether by stupidity or laziness, its not an excuse for doing the wrong thing, either in this game or any other. Dont make up analogies as to why it should be allowed because you want it to be. Go get a brain, read the rules, live by the rules, and this will never be a problem. The only issue here is the select few who knowingly did something they knew was not the way the game was intended, they got caught, they got suspended for doing what was against the rules. The company was nice to the ones that weren't doing it for profit and banned those that were.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who is dishonest in life or tries to cheat thier way through it, in any aspect including in a game. If your personal morales are that shallow that you believe you have the right to do morally wrong things, dishonest things, just to better yourself at the expense of all others around you, well then your not the type of person I would ever want to know in real life. Your scum, sorry if you dont like that, but its that way I feel. I have no place in my life for cheaters, liars, or users. Maybe your morals are more slack then mine, fine, you go about your life being however you want, its your life. I'm not going to stop you here.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
Oh and on that sandwich argument, if you were the owner of the facility, and you wrote the instructions for eatign the sandwich out, and made your customer sign those instructions off as an official contract BEFORE he got the sandwich....well then yes, you could kick his ass out for eating it wrong.
Yup, their game their rules.
It also follows that it is their game and their issues to be fixed.
They also made it so that it all could happen. So it is their jobs to fix it as well. This crazy expectation that people should report easy ways to get whatever, is just that, crazy.
These games are all made so we get rewarded for figuring out the quickest, easiest ways to kill.loot and grow in both power and whatever they use as money.
What we play a game therefore become employee's? Tell you what, they start paying folks for finding bugs,exploits, or whatever, on RELEASED games that people pay to play, THEN maybe they can get on their high horse and expect people to report everything?
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
"Yes mobs are there for you to kill, but not over and over again by higher level characters!"
If the chest spawns...it's there to be looted. If you can get to it WITHOUT EXPLOITING, it's fair game.
Like I said...if the player was exploiting a BUG, then it's different. But there shouldn't be any rules against farming a chest...whatever level you are. As long as you can get to it, it's fair game. If BW designed the game so that farming chests is more valuable than anything else, then that's a problem and they should probably fix it.
All we have to go on here is Biowares word vs the warned or banned. Considering that it's a bit of a reach to be calling it one way or the other. After years of playing MMO's I'm accustomed to the idea that using a bug/design flaw to gain an advantage is bannable, and will get you banned, I'd assume most who play MMO's are also used to this idea. It's happened in every single MMO I've played.
We all know what any MMO companies main goal is, retain subscribers, banning works against that, I doubt they make such a decision lightly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
Yeah I don't think they should just let it go unhandled. What they should have done IMO is...
1. Release an emergency temporary patch that restricts anyone under 45 from going to Illum while they work out the issues.
2. Figure out a way to resolve the problem permanently, whether it's putting mobs by the chest, decreasing spawn rates, or just making them unlootable by < 50's.
3. Release a patch to resolve the issue and then allow under 45's to go to Illum again.
The only situation I could see where this kind of warn/ban behavior is justified is if the design flaw is SO damaging that it will literally destroy the game before a patch could be released. But I somehow doubt that is the case with this.
And even in that case, BW should release a general statement explaining the problem and telling players to not do the troublesome behavior while they fix it or they risk being banned. I mean, it's not like the information won't get out there anyway.
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
Oh and on that sandwich argument, if you were the owner of the facility, and you wrote the instructions for eatign the sandwich out, and made your customer sign those instructions off as an official contract BEFORE he got the sandwich....well then yes, you could kick his ass out for eating it wrong.
Yup, their game their rules.
It also follows that it is their game and their issues to be fixed.
They also made it so that it all could happen. So it is their jobs to fix it as well. This crazy expectation that people should report easy ways to get whatever, is just that, crazy.
These games are all made so we get rewarded for figuring out the quickest, easiest ways to kill.loot and grow in both power and whatever they use as money.
What we play a game therefore become employee's? Tell you what, they start paying folks for finding bugs,exploits, or whatever, on RELEASED games that people pay to play, THEN maybe they can get on their high horse and expect people to report everything?
They found an issue, they noticed people using something against the intended design of the game, they put a stop to it, they told the people that were caught doing it to stop, and now they are fixing it. I dont recall any good person who was doing this that actually reported it to them do you? All I read about is a bunch of dishonest people doing it over and over and over and over again, and they would have kept doing it if Bioware didnt step in and stop them.
Simple, they found it, they are fixing it, they said stop, thats all you need to know. Dont like that, tough shit dude. Oh and the next time they catch a small group of people doing some workaround that wasn't intended ot be there, they will do the same thing then. And if you dont like that, stop playing the game.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
players getting banned for bad game design is laughable, if they don't want lower level players looting the chests then put a level requirement to open it..simple.
Thank you, why the heck are they banning players for their mistakes next they will be banning players for standing around in pvp zones doing nothing and earning points. It's not the players fault these designers didn't use their brains. Exploits have been around since before EQ and these idiots didn't know about them, hello i thought their devs were actual gamers.
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
You know work with their customers?
Do you know that they didn't?
BW wouldn't bother to tell you, you know. Someone reported the odd collection people gathered around a box. Was it gold monitoring (likely) or a player (possibly), or Joes buddy Bob who turned him in instead of joining the fun?
But once upon a time we gave small xp rewards for something as trivial as a typo report. Big finds (game breakers and economy wreckers) would go to the Boss, and if he offered any rewards, we weren't privy to the information--but why wouldn't he?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If said players were botting or selling their ingame hauls for real money, I could understand them being banned.
If said players were even going through some convaluted series of actions to produce a glitch to allow them to do something that was never intended, I could understand them being banned.
But if all they were doing was travelling to a zone that wasn't necessarily meant for them, but still accessible to them based on game design decisions, and looting chests guarded by NPCs that are friendly to them...
Sorry but that's just poor game design. It's a pretty obvious issue that should have been caught by the developers back in the alpha stages of development. I agree that abusing such an oversight isn't good, but I hardly think it warrants banning players. Bioware should have instead agreed that they screwed up and disabled said loot containers for the time being and actually fix their screw up by preventing players from looting containers associated to allied faction NPCs.
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
You know work with their customers?
Do you know that they didn't?
BW wouldn't bother to tell you, you know. Someone reported the odd collection people gathered around a box. Was it gold monitoring (likely) or a player (possibly), or Joes buddy Bob who turned him in instead of joining the fun?
But once upon a time we gave small xp rewards for something as trivial as a typo report. Big finds (game breakers and economy wreckers) would go to the Boss, and if he offered any rewards, we weren't privy to the information--but why wouldn't he?
If they give players rewards for reporting game breaking bugs/exploits, then wouldn't it be to their advantage to make this fact known ?
Originally posted by Creslin321 What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...
I think we could also argue if those people are stupid, liers or hypocrites.
Saying they did not know it was an exploit is absurd.
The fact that they were rushing to high lvl areas with low lvl characters, or just looting same chest for hours over and over implies they were perfectly aware of what they are doing and why. Their intentions were clear - to obtain unusually, extremely high rewards for their level and general game play.
If you do it once or twice, fine. Doing it repeatedly, intentionally over and over is very definition of exploitation.
They also made it so that it all could happen. So it is their jobs to fix it as well. This crazy expectation that people should report easy ways to get whatever, is just that, crazy.
Simple, they found it, they are fixing it, they said stop, thats all you need to know. Dont like that, tough shit dude. Oh and the next time they catch a small group of people doing some workaround that wasn't intended ot be there, they will do the same thing then. And if you dont like that, stop playing the game.
Sorry, you're wrong there bud. It is their responsibility to fix bugs before they release a game, that's the whole point of a closed AND open beta. They have pleanty of time. Now instead of fixing the issue they are alienating what few players they have at launch because THEY made the mistake. These so called Devs might be good at story and voice overs but apparently none of them have EVER played a game in their entire life because these issues they are having should have definitely been caught by their closed team before open beta. Also, you personally don't have access to every bug report in the closed and open beta so seriously quit acting like you know everything about these bugs and how they were handled.
Comments
This is why we have warning labels on everything and why we need to remove them.
Point you're still missing is it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. In the end, if they say it is an unfair advantage, an exploit, and want to stop you from doing it, then stop doing it. It really is that simple. They told you it was wrong to do, so dont do it. You sign off on thier agreements when you play the game. The rules they set are the rules, you either play the game by the rules they set or you dont play the game. You dont like the rules, take it directly to them, send them an email just like they told you to do in thier official response to this issue.
Sorry if you dont agree with that, but since the beginning of time itself games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long. Disagree all you want, not going to change that fact in anyway.
Oh and on that sandwich argument, if you were the owner of the facility, and you wrote the instructions for eatign the sandwich out, and made your customer sign those instructions off as an official contract BEFORE he got the sandwich....well then yes, you could kick his ass out for eating it wrong.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Ummm....why not? That's like saying:
"Yes mobs are there for you to kill, but not over and over again by higher level characters!"
If the chest spawns...it's there to be looted. If you can get to it WITHOUT EXPLOITING, it's fair game.
Like I said...if the player was exploiting a BUG, then it's different. But there shouldn't be any rules against farming a chest...whatever level you are. As long as you can get to it, it's fair game. If BW designed the game so that farming chests is more valuable than anything else, then that's a problem and they should probably fix it.
Oh also, by your definition, I am definitely an exploiter. Here's an example of one of my exploits. I did a dungeon yesterday in Rift that is intended for 5 people with only 3 (all in the level range of the dungeon). We did this by having 2 tanks and a support class, despite the game clearly wanting us to have 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support, and 1 healer.
By doing this, we greatly increased the chance of each of us getting a better reward (since there are less people to split it amongst). Is this an exploit? Did I exploit the game by not doing what the developer intended me to do? Should I have notified Trion that their dungeon is faulty because we completed it with 3 people when it should have required 5?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It is indeed creativity, problem solving and strategy but there is a clear line when you find this "strategy" and when you exploit it.
You can always report it. It is your choice not to do so an exploit it instead.
Your lack of resolution ability or will is no excuse.
The problem is how unclear it is what is and exploit and what isn't.
Take treasure hunting... i make all my money from it... I can just stand in a station sending my companions out to find lockboxes that contain credits... more credits than it takes to send them out on the mission. So I just stand there in the station... continously sending my companions out to find lockboxes while I stay alt tabbed watching videos or something....
It rediculously easy money that requires no movement or effort on my part... seems to good to be true.... so is it an exploit... am I gonna have to submit a ticket everytime i find something like this just to make sure I dont get banned for a mechanic that may or may not be broken?
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
We live in strange times when extremist right wing views on crime and puniment are injected in a discussion forums dedicated to video games. yes we know you want people to die for credit farming or worse then being banned go to their homes and arrest the familys for knowing this person. but this is a video game not a teabagger rally for womens rights.
It's bad form to ban a person playing a video game when the developers are responsible for gating the access to the content they claim people are exploiting. in more simple terms, put a dam level requirement on it.
it's also hard to tell the difference from someone transfering large sums of credits and a gold farmer making a transaction. this is where we enter the realm of injecting real world criminal laws with a virtual world that supposed to allow a player to do things they could never do in real life.
If game designers and the companys don't stop pretending the law of the land in RL are not the same in their made-up worlds we will have problems.
Just wants some plain toast and does not approve of this ban.
(Five easy pieces reference, look it up youngins
)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I don't think we're arguing that BW isn't within their rights to ban people. I mean, it's their game, and I'm sure their ToS says they can pretty much ban you for whatever reason they want.
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Bioware messed up. i they didn't want players to loot those chests all day long, they should have designed it differently.
Tell you what, when I get off work today I will pull up the agreement we ALL signed off on when we started playing this game, and I will find you the section that tells you all about using exploits and how its against the rules. I'll do ALL that work for you, find it for you, write it out here for you, I'll even explain it for you in simple terms, just so you dont have to work too hard to understand the rules you agreed to when you started playing this game.
Look people, if your ignorant wether by stupidity or laziness, its not an excuse for doing the wrong thing, either in this game or any other. Dont make up analogies as to why it should be allowed because you want it to be. Go get a brain, read the rules, live by the rules, and this will never be a problem. The only issue here is the select few who knowingly did something they knew was not the way the game was intended, they got caught, they got suspended for doing what was against the rules. The company was nice to the ones that weren't doing it for profit and banned those that were.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who is dishonest in life or tries to cheat thier way through it, in any aspect including in a game. If your personal morales are that shallow that you believe you have the right to do morally wrong things, dishonest things, just to better yourself at the expense of all others around you, well then your not the type of person I would ever want to know in real life. Your scum, sorry if you dont like that, but its that way I feel. I have no place in my life for cheaters, liars, or users. Maybe your morals are more slack then mine, fine, you go about your life being however you want, its your life. I'm not going to stop you here.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
You exploit either a bug or design flaw, no difference there.
Simple rule: If in doubts, report it.
If you are having no doubts, you will get into troubles, sooner or later
This thread is still going....
*Yawn*
Bioware already made a statement you don't like it tough....
Move on with your lives people come'on I know you can do it.....
Yup, their game their rules.
It also follows that it is their game and their issues to be fixed.
They also made it so that it all could happen. So it is their jobs to fix it as well. This crazy expectation that people should report easy ways to get whatever, is just that, crazy.
These games are all made so we get rewarded for figuring out the quickest, easiest ways to kill.loot and grow in both power and whatever they use as money.
What we play a game therefore become employee's? Tell you what, they start paying folks for finding bugs,exploits, or whatever, on RELEASED games that people pay to play, THEN maybe they can get on their high horse and expect people to report everything?
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Until i get my friend's proof, theres some other sources here:
http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showpost.php?s=c187557e0a5f5468a938ad1b0a62ee9e&p=641865&postcount=30
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?261404-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic&s=da784032f01656d113ffd536705c1bed&p=1045328138&viewfull=1#post1045328138
All we have to go on here is Biowares word vs the warned or banned. Considering that it's a bit of a reach to be calling it one way or the other. After years of playing MMO's I'm accustomed to the idea that using a bug/design flaw to gain an advantage is bannable, and will get you banned, I'd assume most who play MMO's are also used to this idea. It's happened in every single MMO I've played.
We all know what any MMO companies main goal is, retain subscribers, banning works against that, I doubt they make such a decision lightly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
You know work with their customers?
Yeah I don't think they should just let it go unhandled. What they should have done IMO is...
1. Release an emergency temporary patch that restricts anyone under 45 from going to Illum while they work out the issues.
2. Figure out a way to resolve the problem permanently, whether it's putting mobs by the chest, decreasing spawn rates, or just making them unlootable by < 50's.
3. Release a patch to resolve the issue and then allow under 45's to go to Illum again.
The only situation I could see where this kind of warn/ban behavior is justified is if the design flaw is SO damaging that it will literally destroy the game before a patch could be released. But I somehow doubt that is the case with this.
And even in that case, BW should release a general statement explaining the problem and telling players to not do the troublesome behavior while they fix it or they risk being banned. I mean, it's not like the information won't get out there anyway.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
They found an issue, they noticed people using something against the intended design of the game, they put a stop to it, they told the people that were caught doing it to stop, and now they are fixing it. I dont recall any good person who was doing this that actually reported it to them do you? All I read about is a bunch of dishonest people doing it over and over and over and over again, and they would have kept doing it if Bioware didnt step in and stop them.
Simple, they found it, they are fixing it, they said stop, thats all you need to know. Dont like that, tough shit dude. Oh and the next time they catch a small group of people doing some workaround that wasn't intended ot be there, they will do the same thing then. And if you dont like that, stop playing the game.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Thank you, why the heck are they banning players for their mistakes next they will be banning players for standing around in pvp zones doing nothing and earning points. It's not the players fault these designers didn't use their brains. Exploits have been around since before EQ and these idiots didn't know about them, hello i thought their devs were actual gamers.
Do you know that they didn't?
BW wouldn't bother to tell you, you know. Someone reported the odd collection people gathered around a box. Was it gold monitoring (likely) or a player (possibly), or Joes buddy Bob who turned him in instead of joining the fun?
But once upon a time we gave small xp rewards for something as trivial as a typo report. Big finds (game breakers and economy wreckers) would go to the Boss, and if he offered any rewards, we weren't privy to the information--but why wouldn't he?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If said players were botting or selling their ingame hauls for real money, I could understand them being banned.
If said players were even going through some convaluted series of actions to produce a glitch to allow them to do something that was never intended, I could understand them being banned.
But if all they were doing was travelling to a zone that wasn't necessarily meant for them, but still accessible to them based on game design decisions, and looting chests guarded by NPCs that are friendly to them...
Sorry but that's just poor game design. It's a pretty obvious issue that should have been caught by the developers back in the alpha stages of development. I agree that abusing such an oversight isn't good, but I hardly think it warrants banning players. Bioware should have instead agreed that they screwed up and disabled said loot containers for the time being and actually fix their screw up by preventing players from looting containers associated to allied faction NPCs.
If they give players rewards for reporting game breaking bugs/exploits, then wouldn't it be to their advantage to make this fact known
?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I think we could also argue if those people are stupid, liers or hypocrites.
Saying they did not know it was an exploit is absurd.
The fact that they were rushing to high lvl areas with low lvl characters, or just looting same chest for hours over and over implies they were perfectly aware of what they are doing and why. Their intentions were clear - to obtain unusually, extremely high rewards for their level and general game play.
If you do it once or twice, fine. Doing it repeatedly, intentionally over and over is very definition of exploitation.
Sorry, you're wrong there bud. It is their responsibility to fix bugs before they release a game, that's the whole point of a closed AND open beta. They have pleanty of time. Now instead of fixing the issue they are alienating what few players they have at launch because THEY made the mistake. These so called Devs might be good at story and voice overs but apparently none of them have EVER played a game in their entire life because these issues they are having should have definitely been caught by their closed team before open beta. Also, you personally don't have access to every bug report in the closed and open beta so seriously quit acting like you know everything about these bugs and how they were handled.