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The reason this game actually needs to fail.

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Comments

  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    If you don't like a game, then don't play it and move on, but wishing that a game that other people are enjoying needs to fail is selfish and silly, and tbh just weird.

    You don't get it. We are MMO junkies. We need our fix.

    We hoped and prayed SWTOR would give us our fix until the next game came along, but it didn't. It got old in 10 hours or less and now we have to wait god knows how long before the next decent MMO comes out.

    The PAIN!

     

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Member Posts: 976
    Originally posted by Hatefull

    @ Nazgol,
    Pre-NGE SWG was not bleeding subs at all.  The NGE happened because the vocal minority (read; Forum whiners) were busy whining and crying about the game, while the majority were busy playing said game.
    Was SWG perfect? lol no, not even close, it had bugs and yes you had to spend quite a bit of time running to dungeons etc etc. the community and the fact that there were no games around that could compare to it kept people playing.
    I do not think SWG would ever have posted the numbers WoW has, but I think had they fixed bugs, and kept adding content (there were huge amounts of content already) they would still have a decent player base.  But the NGE killed that, and as we sw, last month it died for good.  As far as I know.

     

    I agree with that if they hadn't made the NGE change and just added polish and content and other features with leaving the core intact. However they were in panic mode and that's why I disagree with that SWG wasn't bleeding subs: it really was bleeding subs with the advent of WoW and EQ2, heck, EVERY MMO incl EQ was bleeding subs when those 2 hit the scene, so SWG as well. With the huge popularity of the themepark design that WoW was presenting and the exodus of players of the existing MMO's, it isn't that strange that they thought that the change they needed to implemented was themepark oriented. A misguided one in hindsight, but understandable considering the position they found themselves in.
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197

    Sadly... the average gamer has the ideology concerns of a shrimp. People buy anything.

    ..Cake..

  • OmnifishOmnifish Member Posts: 616

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    TOR isn't my favorite game but this hate campaigning is getting ridiculous. A game 'needs to fail'? Seriously, people... -_-

     



    If you don't like a game, then don't play it and move on, but wishing that a game that other people are enjoying needs to fail is selfish and silly, and tbh just weird.

     

    For those that don't enjoy TOR, there are other types of MMO upcoming, and yes, different types of MMO's can be successful next to eachother, no game 'needs to fail' for those other MMO's to be successful.

     



    Ah well, at least it's obvious that no objectivity or fairness in judgement should be expected from the OP and those that agree with him in future debates, since it's clear that their agenda and fervent wish to see the game fail no matter what will color all their arguments.

    This should be stickyed and at the top of this forum.  Well said sir.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • Sandman24Sandman24 Member Posts: 47

    Why do people write stuff like this?  I don't like blank, so instead of finding something I do like, I want to write about stuff I don't like.  Every game I have ever played at launch lacked plenty.  If you had to play this game to know what you were getting into you don't have much experience with mmos.  The "I went to a pizza shop and they didn't have hamburgers" thing is getting way old. Do you people read this fodder before you post it?  Sad really...

  • oubersoubers Member UncommonPosts: 855

    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    If you don't like a game, then don't play it and move on, but wishing that a game that other people are enjoying needs to fail is selfish and silly, and tbh just weird.

    You don't get it. We are MMO junkies. We need our fix.

    We hoped and prayed SWTOR would give us our fix until the next game came along, but it didn't. It got old in 10 hours or less and now we have to wait god knows how long before the next decent MMO comes out.

    The PAIN!

     

    you HC gamers realy need a hug dont you??  come here.....its alright.....just cry on my shoulder for a while, you will feel better.

     

    image
  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    Originally posted by sgel

    Sadly... the average gamer has the ideology concerns of a shrimp. People buy anything.

    QFT. MW3 anyone? :)

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk Member Posts: 1,532

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    Originally posted by Shivam

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

     

    Yes. And what is wrong with that? You do not need to actually play a game to form an opinion on it. Just like you don't have to watch every crappy Hollywood movie to know that its crap. You can check the director, the actors, the storyline and read a few previews and you can make a pretty good picture of what its like without burning your time and money like the producers would want you to. "Come and see our turd for yourself"  We live in an information age and all the info is out there. Create your own picture man.

    As for GW2, it could yet turn out to be crap and I'm sure many people wont' like it. And that's ok. We don't all have to be the same people, sheesh. There is no "objectivitiy" in matters of taste and games, like all entertainment, are largely a matter of taste.

    If only you applied this logic to every post of yours. Thanks for the reply though i just wanted to bring out the hypocricy and double standards. All the wisdom comes from your side only when someone mentions GW2.

    When I say that something is "crap" I automatically assume that everyone reads this as "crap FOR ME". I never even try to hide behind a mask of "objectivity," unlike some. Imo there is very limited scope for objectivity in entertainment and art, and in computer games "objectivity" usually ends with technical assesment, gfx, bugs and such. Having an opinion is not shameful. Not only everyone has one, but actually everyone NEEDS to have one.

    What I find truly hypocritical is even the pretense of "objectivity" in such matters. "Objectivity" is a term which you can use in natural sciences, period.

    There is no "objectively good/bad" but there is "objectively better/worse".

    Just because we can't -definitely and conclusively- decide if something is good/bad, doesn't mean we can't argument an objectively better/worse state.

    I can't tell you what the -objective- baseline for "healthy" is, but i can tell you right now that smoking will will make you objectively -less- healthy.

    This whole "good for you/good for me" debate is stale.

     

    Nope, not really. Not by far.

    I can say "I think Phantom Menace is the best movie ever made" and you can't say squat to that. You cannot be "objective" in matters of taste. The best you can do "objectively" is to say "IMDB score shows that many people don't think like you do" and that is it. What you cannot do is say "You are wrong", because objectively, I do subjectively believe that Phantom Menace is the best movie ever made. You might try to change my opinion through your argumentation but it all boils down to "my taste is better than yours" or "conform to the general taste" rather than any "objective facts."

    See where it's at?

    No. Because something can objectively be crap and you can like it (i.e. think its the "best ever made"), and you can -also- dislike things that are objectively good.

    "Taste" (Opinion) only comes into something when you like or dislike something. I find discussing taste (opinion) to be generally meaningless, unless you are looking for something to validate your own taste or trust someone enough to know they have a similar taste as you.

    Opinion is an additional layer to an objective function.

    Its just people have a really hard time to understand and separate their opinion from objective arguments.

    This is simply incorrect. Read up on Logic and we can continue our conversation. Objectively nothing can be "crap". It simply does not enter objective discourse. Objectively, the best you can do is state "That many people thiink/do not think that it's crap." Or "The authority so-and-so does not think it's crap." But you can NEVER EVER say "Objectively, this is crap." You'd be laughed out of any serious debate.

    It's just like saying "2+2=blue" or "Beethoven's 9'th would benefit from better steering."

    Your statement above "Something can objectively be crap and you can like it." is fundamentally incorrect, void and meaningless. You might have meant "Something may be considered by the majority to be crap, but you can still like it." and that would be correct. But "isms" and aesthetic qualifiers do not go together in objective discourse.

    Or are we arguing the semantics of "crap?" In that case, I'm doubly bored... Nothing is more tedious than when a discussion turns into "is-isn't-is-is't" semantical tug of war...

     

  • dronfwardronfwar Member Posts: 316

    Originally posted by ksan24

    Why do people write stuff like this?  I don't like blank, so instead of finding something I do like, I want to write about stuff I don't like.  Every game I have ever played at launch lacked plenty.  If you had to play this game to know what you were getting into you don't have much experience with mmos.  The "I went to a pizza shop and they didn't have hamburgers" thing is getting way old. Do you people read this fodder before you post it?  Sad really...

    It's more like "I went into a pizzashop, ordered a pizza but they forgot the tomato sauce".

  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    Originally posted by oubers

    you HC gamers realy need a hug dont you??  come here.....its alright.....just cry on my shoulder for a while, you will feel better.

     

    Nah I'll just stick to some single player games until I find an MMO worth of my scarce and precious gaming time.

     

    And you guys don't actually think we hang on these forums disliking games at our free time, do you? Amateurs.

     

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Member Posts: 976
    Originally posted by tom_gore


    Originally posted by smh_alot

    If you don't like a game, then don't play it and move on, but wishing that a game that other people are enjoying needs to fail is selfish and silly, and tbh just weird.

    You don't get it. We are MMO junkies. We need our fix.

    We hoped and prayed SWTOR would give us our fix until the next game came along, but it didn't. It got old in 10 hours or less and now we have to wait god knows how long before the next decent MMO comes out.

    The PAIN!

     

     

    Lol, that's funny ^_^

    But come on, for those who need an MMO to play for their fix, even if the sandbox genre is under represented atm, there's still an abundance of all types of MMO's on the market these days that can be played.

    Want to play an oldschool MMO like it was? Play EQ classic servers or 1 of the retro projects being made by enthusiasts.

    Want to play a solid, enjoyable themepark MMO but not TOR? There's the choice of WoW, LotrO, AoC, EQ2, Rift, CoX, Aion with each their own flavor and a whole lot others like it, pick a populated server and you're good to go.

    Want a different kind of MMO and don't care about less polish (which if the need for a fix is that big, should be np)? Pick Darkfall, or Fallen Earth, or Vanguard, or Pirates of the Burning Sea, or Ryzom, or EVE, or APB, or Hellgate, or DCUO/CO/STO etc.

  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    What the OP wrote might sound 'true' to someone who doesn't know how the market works, but to anyone who does it is not.

    Iphone, Ipod are just recent examples where success led to innovation. It has always been success that leads to innovation, not failure. 

    While it is amusing to read something that isn't true, you hope that these people can read and figure out these themselves one day.

    Then again, if they do, my returns on my portfolio would take a lot more effort.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • EliandalEliandal Member Posts: 796

    Originally posted by dronfwar

    Originally posted by ksan24

    Why do people write stuff like this?  I don't like blank, so instead of finding something I do like, I want to write about stuff I don't like.  Every game I have ever played at launch lacked plenty.  If you had to play this game to know what you were getting into you don't have much experience with mmos.  The "I went to a pizza shop and they didn't have hamburgers" thing is getting way old. Do you people read this fodder before you post it?  Sad really...

    It's more like "I went into a pizzashop, ordered a pizza but they forgot the tomato sauce".

     

      Sorry there...my pizza seems fine.  Not sure why all you non-invested people are still here whining....but it is nice to see this weekly topic again (although the repetetive arguments are getting tiring!)

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Member Posts: 976
    Originally posted by sgel

    Sadly... the average gamer has the ideology concerns of a shrimp. People buy anything.

     

    People play games for entertainment and fun. If you want to preach ideology, join a political party or religion where ideology at least matters in things in life that DO matter, not something as silly as gaming. Seriously, with how some people think I won't be surprised when someday a dev gets killed by a gaming activist, just bc he/she didn't like the ideology with which the designer or his company was creating their games with -_-
  • tharkthark Member UncommonPosts: 1,188

    Alot of people in this thread speaks as the game would have been needing more general MMO content upon launch..

    But an MMO is an MMO ..It will always need things to expand upon, things that is currently´missing (looking at other released games) and new stuff (content)

    If Bioware would have released a game with ALL said things, what would there be to expand upon ?

    It took these games years to get where they are today

    I haven't played WoW for ages , but according to me WoW was a far better game in the beginning era than it is now IMO atleast , even more streamlined by it's lazy players....If that is what is going to happen with SW:TOR then I'm glad I'm playing it now. IT WAS HARDER

    Same goes for EQ2 , It was for me a much greater experience , when you actually had to play that game with people , but alas it took to much inspiration from the Titan and destroyed itself by thinking it would be better if we made it look like the Titan. IT WAS MUCH HARDER

    SWG also ..an almost unique experience in the beginning, then they tried to make a game that SWG wasn't by looking at the competition, and made the greatest backstab in gaming history by doing so..SWG (the original) would have been a game that could have lived next to SW: TOR with ease, because it had something for that type of players, something SW: TOR never will or ever can be..IT WAS FREE and HARD

    The list goes on..

    This is ofcourse only my own view on this, but I think each game should have their own identity , and the current identity for SW:TOR is the storytelling one, this is what SW:TOR does best and Bioware in all their games, this is also it's area that Bioware should alter and expand upon, maybe make choices that stick and alter everything in a much grander scale..

    So..Please..Do NOT look at other games, create your own identity, atleast somewhat..the gameplay can be the same so everyone and their mom can play, just do not give up on your identity..

     

  • oubersoubers Member UncommonPosts: 855

    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Originally posted by oubers

    you HC gamers realy need a hug dont you??  come here.....its alright.....just cry on my shoulder for a while, you will feel better.

     

    Nah I'll just stick to some single player games until I find an MMO worth of my scarce and precious gaming time.

     

    And you guys don't actually think we hang on these forums disliking games at our free time, do you? Amateurs.

     

    I make my ambitions come true in real life :p

    In my free time i just PLAY games.....i dont talk about it on forums :) hehe

    /end of lunch break......back to work for me :)

     

    image
  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Member Posts: 591

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What the OP wrote might sound 'true' to someone who doesn't know how the market works, but to anyone who does it is not.

    Iphone, Ipod are just recent examples where success led to innovation. It has always been success that leads to innovation, not failure. 

    While it is amusing to read something that isn't true, you hope that these people can read and figure out these themselves one day.

    Then again, if they do, my returns on my portfolio would take a lot more effort.

     

    Conversley, bad products fail because success leads to innovation, and people want to buy the new, better, innovative products: thereby illustrating the OP's point.

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088

    If StarWar universe was replaced with shongdingo universe and the jedis where shing knights and the game was made by some obscure South Korean studio this game would be murdered and shunned by the western gaming mags and gaming sites and this forum community.

    This game only lives on the IP and the name Bioware nothing more.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Member Posts: 976
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    If StarWar universe was replaced with shongdingo universe and the jedis where shing knights and the game was made by some obscure South Korean studio this game would be murdered and shunned by the western gaming mags and gaming sites and this forum community.
    This game only lives on the IP and the name Bioware nothing more.

     

    Of course the IP matters as well as the company making it, but hey, newsflash, that applies to other MMO's as well: EQ2, WoW, LotrO, AoC and WAR wouldn't have had their launch figures and initial reception if those games wouldn't have had that IP and were were made by some obscure company. Heck, GW2 wouldn't have been on the hype levels it is today if it wasn't made by ANet that a lot of gamers have learnt to trust by their handling of GW and if a lot of gamers hadn't enjoyed GW so much, I am one of them that purely got instantly interested in GW2 bc of GW and ANet, and gave their claims and statements more credit bc of it.
  • jpnzjpnz Member Posts: 3,529

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What the OP wrote might sound 'true' to someone who doesn't know how the market works, but to anyone who does it is not.

    Iphone, Ipod are just recent examples where success led to innovation. It has always been success that leads to innovation, not failure. 

    While it is amusing to read something that isn't true, you hope that these people can read and figure out these themselves one day.

    Then again, if they do, my returns on my portfolio would take a lot more effort.

     

    Conversley, bad products fail because success leads to innovation, and people want to buy the new, better, innovative products: thereby illustrating the OP's point.

    The above is actually another common point raised by people that doesn't really understand how the market works.

    Innovation isn't a 100% sure-fire success.

    Ipod/Iphone wasn't the first digital media player/phone.

     

    Success does lead to innovation because success means $$$ which means people want to get involved in that.

    Human greed is 100% in the financial world's point of view.

     

    Hoping for a 'bad product to fail so innovative products can succeed' actually doesn't work in the real world.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • KakkzookaKakkzooka Member Posts: 591

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Kakkzooka

    Originally posted by jpnz

    What the OP wrote might sound 'true' to someone who doesn't know how the market works, but to anyone who does it is not.

    Iphone, Ipod are just recent examples where success led to innovation. It has always been success that leads to innovation, not failure. 

    While it is amusing to read something that isn't true, you hope that these people can read and figure out these themselves one day.

    Then again, if they do, my returns on my portfolio would take a lot more effort.

     

    Conversley, bad products fail because success leads to innovation, and people want to buy the new, better, innovative products: thereby illustrating the OP's point.

    The above is actually another common point raised by people that doesn't really understand how the market works.

    Innovation isn't a 100% sure-fire success.

    Ipod/Iphone wasn't the first digital media player/phone.

     

    Success does lead to innovation because success means $$$ which means people want to get involved in that.

    Human greed is 100% in the financial world's point of view.

     

    Hoping for a 'bad product to fail so innovative products can succeed' actually doesn't work in the real world.

    I have a degree in marketing. And law.

    And using your iPhone argument - how many Motorola Razrs sold after the release of the iPhone? More or less?

     

    Re: SWTOR

    "Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431

    Originally posted by kzaske

    You guys make this game sound worse than SW: Galaxies.

    I'll have ot agree with this.  SWG was a real POS.  Wanna talk about lazy devs?  Look in SWG direction.  SWG was released with 0 content.  They tried to salvage it, but obviously, nothing could be done to a game that was broken since Alpha.

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • FargolFargol Member UncommonPosts: 303

    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Originally posted by Pigozz

    The "I told ya" moment is slowly crawling out

    the most fun thing about it is that I dont even have to say it out loud - because even the fans admit the game lacks a lot 

    ...  seems like they would just move on, but guess some people have too much time on their hands.

    Don't we all.

    But I expect there to be a lot of bitterness, considering the IP and how mundane TOR turned out to be.

  • itbewillyitbewilly Member UncommonPosts: 351

    If WoW can have going on 8 years to polish itself out and still makes mistakes i think ToR deserves longer then one month.

    WoW is said to be polished huh.... Did i read that right? Polished? Because a game releasing a "Looking for Raid" Tool without proper testing then banning people who exploited it just screams smooth sailing. Do yourself a favor if you love World of Warcraft.. Go play it and STFU about The Old Republic. I played World of Warcraft from launch and know first hand the perfect picture you trolls tend to try to paint about it being so great now are blatant lies and if you really wanna compare games Compare WoW at its 1 month point to ToR now. Exactly... Now if you dont mind i will go back to enjoying ToR as a fresh new game until Guild Wars 2 actually comes out. Then i will likely play both as at this point even all those WoW friends i have still playing it now arent enough to make me go back to WoW.

    Also...just in case some of you trolls would like to throw the term Fan Boy at me.... Ive played 4 Star Wars games and seen about 30 minutes of one of its movies :) Calling me a Fan Boy Would be like calling World of Warcraft the most innovative game ever. All World of Warcraft is and ever was was the mmo industries equivalent of Kanye West... Sure it added a few nice new looking features occasionally but most of its good stuff was borrowed from previous games just like most of Kanye's good music contains samples of music released by other artist's  :X

  • TorgrimTorgrim Member CommonPosts: 2,088

    Originally posted by smh_alot

    Originally posted by Torgrim

    If StarWar universe was replaced with shongdingo universe and the jedis where shing knights and the game was made by some obscure South Korean studio this game would be murdered and shunned by the western gaming mags and gaming sites and this forum community.

    This game only lives on the IP and the name Bioware nothing more.

     

    Of course the IP matters as well as the company making it, but hey, newsflash, that applies to other MMO's as well: EQ2, WoW, LotrO, AoC and WAR wouldn't have had their launch figures and initial reception if those games wouldn't have had that IP and were were made by some obscure company. Heck, GW2 wouldn't have been on the hype levels it is today if it wasn't made by ANet that a lot of gamers have learnt to trust by their handling of GW and if a lot of gamers hadn't enjoyed GW so much, I am one of them that purely got instantly interested in GW2 bc of GW and ANet, and gave their claims and statements more credit bc of it.

     

    All those games (not sure about gw2 never beta it yet) you wrote have tons of more features at launch hell even AoC had more things going even if it failed due to massive bugs and missing content at launch.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

This discussion has been closed.