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SWTOR will finally be the death of WoW clones
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First off, written text. I cannot hear the implication or tone of your voice. Ergo, interpretation is likely to be skewed. Reading comprehension is YOUR friend too. Thank you.
Ya, what games have you played? Because if you havent played any of those games, your perspective is skewed, big time. I dont see how you can even form an opinion of the current games without that knowledge, maybe Im missing something?
People are hitting 50 in 5 days, that is my point. If the game had more substance, like oither MMOs, people would still be levlling up their first character at this stage.
There is no end game as far as I am concerened, and WOW and other MMOs, except SWG, have the same problem for me, but the reason I am still playing them, is because levelling up in them is a lot slower.
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I hate to break it to you, but this is all opinion based from you. You're not looking at the bigger picture. There is A LOT of content in SWTOR and if you play it all and do every quest to hit 50, it will take you roughly 7 days (1 week) to 2 weeks to hit 50. This is excluding FLASHPOINTS (instances), and it's very appearant that you think a game that has 85 levels of drudgery is slower... hate to tell you but 5 days in SWTOR is not even 5 days in WoW, I could hit 85 in WoW in less than 4 days. So keep trying to validate your point because the only validity you're providing here, is that your personal preference is to take your time. Others don't want to take as much time as you.
If you delve deeper into the idea that there are multitudes of preferences, you would clearly understand that you're only providing an opinion here, NOT A FACT.
Those 2 mill sales are all from preorders. If they said they sold 4 million (or more) at the start of the month, and doubled the sales since launch, then it would be more of a success
2 million bought the game on hype, bought the game before knowing what it was like, on the faith that Bioware would deliver, but even if people liked it, a lot found not much else to do once hit level 50. People should not be maxing characters by now, if played through at an average pace.
Uhh, this is faulty as well considering the fact that the experience you gain from quests and the rate it takes you to quest through to 50 is roughly, give or take 5 days... You can easily max a character and be 50. The end-game is fine for now. There's more coming very shortly and when it hits, I gaurantee you that it can only go uphill, unless it copies entirely what RIFT did, by adding the ability to kill Gods very quickly. Soa, The Infernal One is the only mob that is somewhat like a 'god' as he was an ancient Rakata that still was around. Only God so far.
People are hitting 50 in 5 days, that is my point. If the game had more substance, like oither MMOs, people would still be levlling up their first character at this stage.
There is no end game as far as I ma concerened, and WOW and other MMOs, except SWG, have the same problem for me, but the reason I am still playing them, is because levelling up in them is a lot slower.
I hate to break it to you, but this is all opinion based from you. You're not looking at the bigger picture. There is A LOT of content in SWTOR and if you play it all and do every quest to hit 50, it will take you roughly 7 days (1 week) to 2 weeks to hit 50. This is excluding FLASHPOINTS (instances), and it's very appearant that you think a game that has 85 levels of drudgery is slower... hate to tell you but 5 days in SWTOR is not even 5 days in WoW, I could hit 85 in WoW in less than 4 days. So keep trying to validate your point because the only validity you're providing here, is that your personal preference is to take your time. Others don't want to take as much time as you.
If you delve deeper into the idea that there are multitudes of preferences, you would clearly understand that you're only providing an opinion here, NOT A FACT.
You are aware that is a forum you have joined?
It's OK to post opinions, some you agree with and some you don't, you will get the hang of it.It is FACT actually, as there is an article on it
Also in other MMOs, the crafting is left to you, and that takes up time, and other distractions like fishing, and exploring the game world - LOTRO is just beaitiful.
In SWTOR all those distractions are non existent, but if you do not get distracted by these things then I guess it will be just as fast as SWTOR.
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You sound like you're in denial. The game is a labeled a Wow clone because Wow players don't want the same old game they've been playing for the last 7 years, when they are looking for something new to play.
It has been quite obvious to a lot of people who have played both Wow and swtor, so I doubt you've played WoW before, for one because you claim SWTOR took their PVP ideas from Rift and not WoW. Oh yeah I'm sure they got none of their inspiration of battlegrounds and warzones from rift and not Wow...lmao
Also you seem oblivious to the fact that to most people that have played both games commonly note that the games are so similar and very little separates the two (other than voice overs), which is why the comparisons are levelled between the two and the game labeled a Wow clone.
Why do you think people are quitting this game so early, which would explain the population declines across many servers. Probably because by the time people reach level 25 they realize they're just playing mediocre version of Wow. I had to remind myself I was playing SWTOR and not Wow a few times, even tho I haven't played Wow in years, because that is how similar the games are.
In short, you're wrong. Why don't you ask the co-founder of bioware, he will confirm it for you that they made the game as similar to Wow as possible.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
- Greg Zeshuk
http://kotaku.com/5884948/stop-copying-world-of-warcraft-start-making-a-better-mmo
BTW, articles are supposed to be unbiased. Try again. Playstyle fact compared to article opinion = moot. You didn't elaborate or use any citations within the article to prove your point. Even in doing so, you realize that your point is still again, an opinion and not factual right?
Just pointing out that you're negating the evidence against you and so far it is greater (in terms of how much is presented) than your 'proof' listed in ONE article. ONE article = less than/not equal to factual evidence.
Those 2 mill sales are all from preorders. If they said they sold 4 million (or more) at the start of the month, and doubled the sales since launch, then it would be more of a success
2 million bought the game on hype, bought the game before knowing what it was like, on the faith that Bioware would deliver, but even if people liked it, a lot found not much else to do once hit level 50. People should not be maxing characters by now, if played through at an average pace.
Uhh, this is faulty as well considering the fact that the experience you gain from quests and the rate it takes you to quest through to 50 is roughly, give or take 5 days... You can easily max a character and be 50. The end-game is fine for now. There's more coming very shortly and when it hits, I gaurantee you that it can only go uphill, unless it copies entirely what RIFT did, by adding the ability to kill Gods very quickly. Soa, The Infernal One is the only mob that is somewhat like a 'god' as he was an ancient Rakata that still was around. Only God so far.
People are hitting 50 in 5 days, that is my point. If the game had more substance, like oither MMOs, people would still be levlling up their first character at this stage.
There is no end game as far as I ma concerened, and WOW and other MMOs, except SWG, have the same problem for me, but the reason I am still playing them, is because levelling up in them is a lot slower.
I hate to break it to you, but this is all opinion based from you. You're not looking at the bigger picture. There is A LOT of content in SWTOR and if you play it all and do every quest to hit 50, it will take you roughly 7 days (1 week) to 2 weeks to hit 50. This is excluding FLASHPOINTS (instances), and it's very appearant that you think a game that has 85 levels of drudgery is slower... hate to tell you but 5 days in SWTOR is not even 5 days in WoW, I could hit 85 in WoW in less than 4 days. So keep trying to validate your point because the only validity you're providing here, is that your personal preference is to take your time. Others don't want to take as much time as you.
If you delve deeper into the idea that there are multitudes of preferences, you would clearly understand that you're only providing an opinion here, NOT A FACT.
It is FACT actually, as there is an article on it
Also in other MMOs, the crafting is left to you, and that takes up time, and other distractions like fishing, and exploring the game world - LOTRO is just beaitiful.
In SWTOR all those distractions are non existent, but if you do not get distracted by these things then I guess it will be just as fast as SWTOR.
BTW, articles are supposed to be unbiased. Try again. Playstyle fact compared to article opinion = moot. You didn't elaborate or use any citations within the article to prove your point. Even in doing so, you realize that your point is still again, an opinion and not factual right?
Just pointing out that you're negating the evidence against you is greater than your 'proof' listed in ONE article. ONE article = less than/not equal to factual evidence.
To be fair though, that's one more published article that you have linked your"facts" toI comprehend and understand and disagree, but opinions are what keep sites like this running, they are not here to provide unconditional support for games, if people want to post their opinions good or bad then that's great, MMORPG.com stays in business and we get somewhere to talk bout MMOs.
There are probably just as many people who believe that the game is a success as there are those who believe it a failure. The game's release and condition will do nothing to thwart the bandwagoneers, in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Ohhh yes that ohhh so "steller" remark from BW. That guy deserves an award... like the dumbest statement of the year award.
I think everyone agrees that it is a success in some shape or form, hell AoC was a success for christ sakes. I think it comes down to all the "OMG.. SWTOR is gonna OWN WoW. HAIL THE NEW KING MMO!!!" posts in the past and now all the naysayers are rubbing it in their faces.
SWTOR will finally be the death of WoW clones --> the death of SWTOR will allow SWG2 to be made -->
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I'm not in denial of anything. I did include wow for one, as I have played it. (explaining mr Greg's post) I certainly can say it is similar in terms of elements in the design. I'm not oblivious to anything. It is still not a wow clone. I explained RIFT as it took the concepts from rift (warzones, not battlegrounds). So Greg, I think you need to re-evaluate your own statement as you're just as oblivious about everything.
I disagree with the OP. The last several years have shown us that the MMO playing community will jump on the wagon of the next visually pleasing game, give it 1-3 months, then if it isn't worth the money or the time, go back to their game of choice - probably WoW. SWTOR has a historic fanbase large enough that it will be given more time and opportunity than most.
"WoW-clones" - the games with a linear progression path, easily identified tasks, skill-tree character progression in the triumvate of tank/dps/healer and well-rendered armour - will continue to be churned out because that is what the MMO playing community buy and play now. Most will fall into semi-obscurity/FTP semi-stagnation within the opening 6 months and thereafter be cancelled or kept alive by a core fanbase.
Each of these games offers a slight tweak on a proven formula - why should developers make anything else when we keep on handing over our dollars? Every time a post shouts "we want open world!", or "no more theme park", it's like rain off a roof - no-one notices. When we stop paying for the next pretty thing, developers and investors will pay heed.
Ironically, I believe that what we've heard so many shouts for - open world, non-linear etc - exists in games like Mortal Online. Unfortunately, that game hasn't seemed to attain the critical mass of player base and investment to allow it to flourish, but do you honestly expect investors now to take that kind of risk when there is no real financial reason to change the existing method?
MO has not succeeded so far as it has spent 2 years in beta and asking people to pay for that, not many are willing, if they ever get it to release quality it will pick up enough subs to make a profit.
It remains to be seen whether SWTOR will make a profit and that is the benchmark for success. $200m is a lot to get back,all anecdotal evidence points to falling subs, it will depend how fast players desert it.
ArcheAge have a budget of $25m to make a sandbox game.Hey look...it's logic!
Big developers wont take the risk because there is no market to make the money investors want in a triple AAA Sandbox MMO when you need to invest 100 + mil to make a game you cant get that money back from a that market so why even try ? Instead we got indie companys making sandbox games on a small budget and the work is obviously 2nd rate because they dont have the money to invest and get it done right and for those who say the market is their its not if it was SOE, Blizzard, EA, NCSoft would of taken a shot at it already because its just money to them if they hit a homerun great if not it wont hurt the company.
As far as leveling you can hit max in wow in 3-4 days played. In SWTOR its 5-7 days played its no faster than any other MMO.
Don't worry I think users are going to find new clever ways to label anything a WoW clone.
Hm I wonder how true this assumption is? I mean, on a VERY basic level, SWTOR is a game similar to WOW. I would never call it clone however. I mean, if you measure SWTOR as WOW-clone, almost every MMO is a WOW clone and then the term itself loses it's distinctive, explanatory quality. No, I think we have to look more closely.
SWTOR failed. Maybe not absolute, but in it's own aspirations and given how much money, how much time and how many people were involved, given how big the IP was and how many years of MMO experience we have today, and how mediocre the game became, I think that as a fact. You may still love SWTOR. But compared to what it could and should have been, SWTOR failed. Period.
That said, I wonder what lessons really are inside? Just the "WOW-clone" theory seems a bit too simplified for me.
What strikes me even more is what SWTOR did NOT copy from WoW. Namely, everything that evokes feeling. Each of the zones has a good design that evokes a certain feeling. You connect certain memories with the zones. People feel VERY strong faction pride. You have cities who are just lovey in all the detail and things going on. WOW has stuff "for your heart", which SWTOR just totally and entirely lacks. WOW has dramatic stories, funny characters, cute characters, absurd things, epic things, a wide variety of emotions are manifested in WOW. That is why it thrived such a long time.
One of the capital mistakes of many MMO that really come from "copying WOW" is the endgame and grind fixation. MMOs these days you level up to max in no time, and then you have the endgame grind. Just like WOW. The problem is, WOW added that after years and with tons of other content to do and see. SWTOR, like RIFT, had added endgame grind WAY too early, when they had much too less middle content yet. Grind tokens, coins asf. is something an older MMO can afford. A new MMO has just no standing to allow itself to toss players in the coin gring hamster wheel! That is something you may add years after launch, when you feel, oh ok we ran out of ways to keep people playing, let's add token/coin grind. What WOW had much later, these new MMOs add right away, and I find that outrageous. A new MMO has to have better ways to keep me playing that grind the same 5 dungeons in hardmode over and over for some coins to exchange into some stupid gear! That is the very definition of boring!
SWTOR failed because the worlds are way too boring, unanimated, lifeless like a mere theatre stage, and without almost any ambient sounds. It failed because heroic story ALONE just doesn't carry a longer time. It failed because the Bioware devs did not model their game for many different tastes and styles of gameplay, but solely and alone on the Voiceover-hero-quest idea and dropped EVERY other stuff to do. Or added them so tiny and figleaf they could as well have dropped it. I wonder if anyone still plays space? That was just a total waste of time and money to make that. The heroic story is really cool. Alas, SWTOR has NOTHING else to convince. THAT is why is failed. And I really have to emphasize, Bioware failed to learn EVERY SINGLE good stuff from other MMOs, including some features of WOW. Sorry, but they have just no clue how to make a MMO.
But, being here for 6 years now, I can say that one thing in the universe is sure. People do NOT learn from mistake. People learn from THINKING about mistakes, and that is something I have seen in the MMO industry very, very rarely.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
replying to original OP:
There will always be wow clones, and there will always be people who play them.
That said, I hope swtor fails, I put so much hope into that game, went to 50 twice and realised that I had wasted a month of my life. I think I was kinda in denial about how good it was, so I just kept playing. I wanted it to be good, I really really did.
But its terrible, crappy pvp, crappy generic quests, crappy endgame pve, crappy crafting system. The only thing that was good was the story (very linear story which wasnt effected by your choices at all, but it was intresting) and that ends once you hit 50.
Ea have taken biowares soul. They just care about getting games out the door now, no real quality left.
That 1.7 million is spin. That's accounts created , I'm pretty sure they are not talking about active subs or else people wouldn't be complaining about merging servers or light population load on all the servers during peak time!
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....