Telling folks to shut it is always a wonderful idea. It doesn't take a professional analyst nor whether if someone can tell the future or guessing the next lottery to see how these types of theme park MMO games usually end up in a short amount of time. I've given over half a dozen examples of other P2P MMO games that follow this very similar typical formula with maybe one new thing tacked on to it. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy said game, but the way some folks defend this game (and especially on the official forums) can get rather ridiculous.
I'd say enjoy the game if you do, and move on if you don't at all. If you want to criticize it and give your opinion, go for it, it is a forum after all. I've given examples even as to why it didn't do so hot in K-TERA as well as J-TERA... and for some reason I've seen these same topics crop up back again and again (especially this past week).
TERA has a FUN combat system. I played the GW2 beta... and it's not even close. TERA wins by a lot.
Having said that... as best i can tell GW2 will trounce TERA in just about every other area... TERA does have some nice aesthetcis - but I don't think I've ever played an MMO where the environment felt less interactive (though some have been close).
Ladies and Gentlemen. The ultimate problem with TERA's everything-else-but-combat being average, is that it is charging you 15$ per month.
I repeat : 15$, per month.
Would you imagine paying 15$ per month on top of 60$ for being able to play Bayonetta ?
Is Bayonetta a mmo? does it get constant content update?
Being multiplayer doesn't justify 15$ per month on its own.
And about the content update :
1) Tera doesn't even have the base content of other subscription based mmos (bgs, raids, endgame activities other than dungeon farming).
2) Does Tera give constant update too ? Plus, I've yet to see a real content update until end of summer (battlegrounds, which are not really a content upgrade as they already existed).
p.s : this post is not a declaration of war against Tera fans. It's just an answer to the question. Put that gun down.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
What exactly do you think you will be doing in D3/GW2/Secret World? Yeah I thought so.
WRONG! On so many levels. After tomorrow, I will be able to defend my point with examples from TSW. D3, ok yeah, but that's the nature of that game and it's NOT an MMORPG. Not sure why you included that. GW2, rofl, the combat is more tactical then Tera and questing isn't hub to hub, it's free form and flows with the world and exploration is ten times a factor. Tera is like MMO for babies in comparison.
OP is right though, Tera could have just given one long massive epic quest from level 1 to 60 and said kill XXXX of each creature per zone, here's a piece or 2 of gear for doing that thanks, now move to next zone and kill XXXXX. Why even have quest hubs, just have a massive clump of mobs from zone to zone, a la Dynasty Warriors where you just go off on creatures spamming attack buttons. The game is THAT simple.
What exactly do you think you will be doing in D3/GW2/Secret World? Yeah I thought so.
WRONG! On so many levels. After tomorrow, I will be able to defend my point with examples from TSW. D3, ok yeah, but that's the nature of that game and it's NOT an MMORPG. Not sure why you included that. GW2, rofl, the combat is more tactical then Tera and questing isn't hub to hub, it's free form and flows with the world and exploration is ten times a factor. Tera is like MMO for babies in comparison.
OP is right though, Tera could have just given one long massive epic quest from level 1 to 60 and said kill XXXX of each creature per zone, here's a piece or 2 of gear for doing that thanks, now move to next zone and kill XXXXX. Why even have quest hubs, just have a massive clump of mobs from zone to zone, a la Dynasty Warriors where you just go off on creatures spamming attack buttons. The game is THAT simple.
What exactly do you think you will be doing in D3/GW2/Secret World? Yeah I thought so.
WRONG! On so many levels. After tomorrow, I will be able to defend my point with examples from TSW. D3, ok yeah, but that's the nature of that game and it's NOT an MMORPG. Not sure why you included that. GW2, rofl, the combat is more tactical then Tera and questing isn't hub to hub, it's free form and flows with the world and exploration is ten times a factor. Tera is like MMO for babies in comparison.
OP is right though, Tera could have just given one long massive epic quest from level 1 to 60 and said kill XXXX of each creature per zone, here's a piece or 2 of gear for doing that thanks, now move to next zone and kill XXXXX. Why even have quest hubs, just have a massive clump of mobs from zone to zone, a la Dynasty Warriors where you just go off on creatures spamming attack buttons. The game is THAT simple.
what mmo isnt anymore
GW2 and TSW.
Horatio Kane here,
Informing you that GW2 has only been played for less than two days and TSW was not well received.
I recommend looking for some est. 2015 late 2014 releases to include into your arguments in future.
Otherwise you're statements may actually be liable to scrutiny.
Regards, Horatio Kane.
I'm the Hero Arborea deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
What exactly do you think you will be doing in D3/GW2/Secret World? Yeah I thought so.
WRONG! On so many levels. After tomorrow, I will be able to defend my point with examples from TSW. D3, ok yeah, but that's the nature of that game and it's NOT an MMORPG. Not sure why you included that. GW2, rofl, the combat is more tactical then Tera and questing isn't hub to hub, it's free form and flows with the world and exploration is ten times a factor. Tera is like MMO for babies in comparison.
OP is right though, Tera could have just given one long massive epic quest from level 1 to 60 and said kill XXXX of each creature per zone, here's a piece or 2 of gear for doing that thanks, now move to next zone and kill XXXXX. Why even have quest hubs, just have a massive clump of mobs from zone to zone, a la Dynasty Warriors where you just go off on creatures spamming attack buttons. The game is THAT simple.
what mmo isnt anymore
GW2 and TSW.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
Rifts invasions would take out town npcs and camps and such and sometimes would hang around for a good amount of time. So other MMOs have done similar but GW2 does it better and adds a lot more variety..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Thats what you will be doing in GW2 so I wouldn't ask lol.
D3 and The Secret World, yeah quests won't be much better.
I'm sorry, but having a story TOLD to me is hella boring. Nothing about that was dynamic, but static and scripted.
I don't know what you're looking for, but the premise of dynamic events is that they're based on the player's interaction. Should the player succeed in the event's set goals, another event will be triggered. Should they fail, a different event will be triggered. It's just that in all the videos I've seen so far the player always succeeds, so I haven't seen what would happen otherwise.
The town often gets taken over (enemy npc, and you got to push them out, they call for reeforcments etc.), if not there are quest to undo the damage done. Someones durning these events you win, but a mob/npc dies and opps you have to do something about that, that action triggers other DEs, so its not option a or b, it might be option A, b, c, or d ot option a, a2 or b or option A, A2, A3, B, OR C OR C2. Most are a or b; and a, a2, or b.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Rifts invasions would take out town npcs and camps and such and sometimes would hang around for a good amount of time. So other MMOs have done similar but GW2 does it better and adds a lot more variety..
And after 15 minutes despawn they would...
But defending that town didn't lead to attacking the fort the enemies came from as an event. Or losing it leading to an event where you have to clear mobs out of the forest so they can lumber trees to rebuild. Just as examples
I need to play TSW more to get a better view of the quest over time.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
D3 is essentially a much more dumbed down version of Diablo 2 with WoW-type oversimplified polygon models with low-res textures in a massively MORE linear gameplay system than was in Diablo 2. Boring to say the least, and not up to par with 2012 releases.
You couldn't be more wrong on that, but it's your loss if you want to be narrow minded & ignorant.
Read that and inform yourself. If you still think D3 is 'dumbed down', then you're either not smart enough to understand why it isn't, or you're just in complete denial.
This info is no longer accurate btw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You realize that could be said about literally every game in existence, right? Unless a game has no monsters to kill, all of them are about targetting them, then killing them. Since Asteroids, that's all it's been. So if you're looking at it that way, yes, that's all it devolves into. Presentation is very clearly key, which is what keeps people entertained which, by the way, is also your argument at the end there, so clearly you agree. What you're saying is you like TERA's combat more, which is fine, but you don't have much ground to stand on with your opinion on GW2 "questing"
TERA quest - kill 20 centaurs, standing in an area, not actually doing anything, then turn into an NPC that doesn't actually give a damn
GW2 event - kill 20 centaurs, as they lay seige to the town, attack NPCs (who can and will lose), build catapults, pretty much set the world on fire, and get more intelligent as more people join in to help, hunting down anyone that gets close if you let them take over the town.
I don't get this mentality where people seem to be completely unable to give credit to something where its due, as if suggesting any part of anything that's interesting and NOT the game their playing invalidates their choice. That's called a defense mechanism, and it's pretty tired. TERA and GW2 combat are very different, some are going to like TERA more, but to compare the two quest systems is laughable.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
Thats debatable. I enjoyed GW2's combat more than any combat system I've played. It was deep, challenging and has great sense of control. It requires both reactive actions and tactical thinking. Saying it is target->kill holds true for just about any game and does not really do ANY game justice. And you can ignore the whole targeting part in GW2 aswell. Lots of GW2 systems seem really simple on paper, but this is one of those games that a feature list won't do any justice for
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You realize that could be said about literally every game in existence, right? Unless a game has no monsters to kill, all of them are about targetting them, then killing them. Since Asteroids, that's all it's been. So if you're looking at it that way, yes, that's all it devolves into. Presentation is very clearly key, which is what keeps people entertained which, by the way, is also your argument at the end there, so clearly you agree. What you're saying is you like TERA's combat more, which is fine, but you don't have much ground to stand on with your opinion on GW2 "questing"
TERA quest - kill 20 centaurs, standing in an area, not actually doing anything, then turn into an NPC that doesn't actually give a damn
GW2 event - kill 20 centaurs, as they lay seige to the town, attack NPCs (who can and will lose), build catapults, pretty much set the world on fire, and get more intelligent as more people join in to help, hunting down anyone that gets close if you let them take over the town.
I don't get this mentality where people seem to be completely unable to give credit to something where its due, as if suggesting any part of anything that's interesting and NOT the game their playing invalidates their choice. That's called a defense mechanism, and it's pretty tired. TERA and GW2 combat are very different, some are going to like TERA more, but to compare the two quest systems is laughable.
Where did I compare the two quest systems? It seems your reading comprehension is what's laughable. I admitted that the presentation of the events is nice, and I said that TERA's combat (its "way of doing things") is fun while its quests are not. I love how the GW2 fanbois love to jump in guns blazing and defend their game without even reading what other people have to say.
Also, you are way overexaggerating the dynamism of GW2's events. The last 2 or 3 centaur town raids I participated in had a bunch of centaur running in, one wave at a time, to be promptly killed and driven back. And that was it. End of event. There are more complex ones, yes, but the majority are pretty simple and definitely overhyped by many fans.
Also, you can't target monsters in TERA, not in the mouse over, highlight mob, click method I said in my last post. So no, not "literally every other game in existence." TERA's not even the only one either.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You realize that could be said about literally every game in existence, right? Unless a game has no monsters to kill, all of them are about targetting them, then killing them. Since Asteroids, that's all it's been. So if you're looking at it that way, yes, that's all it devolves into. Presentation is very clearly key, which is what keeps people entertained which, by the way, is also your argument at the end there, so clearly you agree. What you're saying is you like TERA's combat more, which is fine, but you don't have much ground to stand on with your opinion on GW2 "questing"
TERA quest - kill 20 centaurs, standing in an area, not actually doing anything, then turn into an NPC that doesn't actually give a damn
GW2 event - kill 20 centaurs, as they lay seige to the town, attack NPCs (who can and will lose), build catapults, pretty much set the world on fire, and get more intelligent as more people join in to help, hunting down anyone that gets close if you let them take over the town.
I don't get this mentality where people seem to be completely unable to give credit to something where its due, as if suggesting any part of anything that's interesting and NOT the game their playing invalidates their choice. That's called a defense mechanism, and it's pretty tired. TERA and GW2 combat are very different, some are going to like TERA more, but to compare the two quest systems is laughable.
Where did I compare the two quest systems? It seems your reading comprehension is what's laughable. I admitted that the presentation of the events is nice, and I said that TERA's combat (its "way of doing things") is fun while its quests are not. I love how the GW2 fanbois love to jump in guns blazing and defend their game without even reading what other people have to say.
Also, you are way overexaggerating the dynamism of GW2's events. The last 2 or 3 centaur town raids I participated in had a bunch of centaur running in, one wave at a time, to be promptly killed and driven back. And that was it. End of event. There are more complex ones, yes, but the majority are pretty simple and definitely overhyped by many fans.
Nothing there is being overexaggerated, perhaps it would have been better if you at least attempted to make it out of the beginner area where they attempt to take it easy on you? The level 15+ area is where the events can and will start kicking your ass. What I described was an actual event, in the 15+ human area, where a town is being raided by centaurs who set up catapults. The town is literally filled with fire, dust and smoke, NPCs are fighting and will fail if you don't help, and you have to not only push the centaurs back but take down the catapults. Afterward, you need to take out the outpost they have, and stop them from taking out a bridge to prevent escape during a future seige. None of that is made up, and if you aren't aware of it that's your own fault.
And you did indeed compare the two systems, if you see that then you have no understanding of anything you are actually typing, which in these forums is as common as it is sad. You said both GW2 and TERA devolve into KTX quests, but TERA's "way of doing things is much more engaging" following a sentence where you say "way of doing 'em" in regards to GW2. That's called a comparison. Perhaps, I don't know...proof read, before you hit the post button? Make sure you're getting the point across you actually mean to? It might help.
And spare me the fanboi fears, I was advocating for TERA before it was the cool thing to do. Don't let the GW2 banner fool you, I play a lot of games, and TERA ~was~ going to be one of them.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You realize that could be said about literally every game in existence, right? Unless a game has no monsters to kill, all of them are about targetting them, then killing them. Since Asteroids, that's all it's been. So if you're looking at it that way, yes, that's all it devolves into. Presentation is very clearly key, which is what keeps people entertained which, by the way, is also your argument at the end there, so clearly you agree. What you're saying is you like TERA's combat more, which is fine, but you don't have much ground to stand on with your opinion on GW2 "questing"
TERA quest - kill 20 centaurs, standing in an area, not actually doing anything, then turn into an NPC that doesn't actually give a damn
GW2 event - kill 20 centaurs, as they lay seige to the town, attack NPCs (who can and will lose), build catapults, pretty much set the world on fire, and get more intelligent as more people join in to help, hunting down anyone that gets close if you let them take over the town.
I don't get this mentality where people seem to be completely unable to give credit to something where its due, as if suggesting any part of anything that's interesting and NOT the game their playing invalidates their choice. That's called a defense mechanism, and it's pretty tired. TERA and GW2 combat are very different, some are going to like TERA more, but to compare the two quest systems is laughable.
Where did I compare the two quest systems? It seems your reading comprehension is what's laughable. I admitted that the presentation of the events is nice, and I said that TERA's combat (its "way of doing things") is fun while its quests are not. I love how the GW2 fanbois love to jump in guns blazing and defend their game without even reading what other people have to say.
Also, you are way overexaggerating the dynamism of GW2's events. The last 2 or 3 centaur town raids I participated in had a bunch of centaur running in, one wave at a time, to be promptly killed and driven back. And that was it. End of event. There are more complex ones, yes, but the majority are pretty simple and definitely overhyped by many fans.
Nothing there is being overexaggerated, perhaps it would have been better if you at least attempted to make it out of the beginner area where they attempt to take it easy on you? The level 15+ area is where the events can and will start kicking your ass. What I described was an actual event, in the 15+ human area, where a town is being raided by centaurs who set up catapults. The town is literally filled with fire, dust and smoke, NPCs are fighting and will fail if you don't help, and you have to not only push the centaurs back but take down the catapults. Afterward, you need to take out the outpost they have, and stop them from taking out a bridge to prevent escape during a future seige. None of that is made up, and if you aren't aware of it that's your own fault.
And you did indeed compare the two systems, if you see that then you have no understanding of anything you are actually typing, which in these forums is as common as it is sad. You said both GW2 and TERA devolve into KTX quests, but TERA's "way of doing things is much more engaging" following a sentence where you say "way of doing 'em" in regards to GW2. That's called a comparison. Perhaps, I don't know...proof read, before you hit the post button? Make sure you're getting the point across you actually mean to? It might help.
And spare me the fanboi fears, I was advocating for TERA before it was the cool thing to do. Don't let the GW2 banner fool you, I play a lot of games, and TERA ~was~ going to be one of them.
It seems you failed to grasp that the "way of doing things" refers to combat, whereas the "things" themselves are the quests/events. You use combat as a way of doing things, i.e. quests/events. So yes, I was making a comparison between the two combat systems, or "way of doing things". Good of you to notice that. It's too bad you utterly missed the next point and thought that I was comparing the quest systems. I'm sorry you couldn't understand that and had to have that spelled out for you.
And yes, I did make it to the 15-25 human area, as well as the 15-25 snowy area that was connected to it. The only smoky area I recall is the centaur base itself, which I had an event to take out three specific centaurs and then a followup to kill their leader. The bridge thing I remember doing, but it started up on its own and wasn't connected to any other event. As I was exploring and going back and forth through the areas, I saw a couple events repeat and I just did them again for xp/pvp currency/whatever, but in the end you know that all you efforts do absolutely nothing and that each event is really just a self-contained microcosm within the area and has no true effect on the world as a whole.
Maybe I'm forgetting something. I probably am. But whatever the case, that's what events truly turn out to be, and no amount of epic narration/recounting of the events will make them more than that.
that MMORPG all are gear grind, LOTRO / RIFT / WoW etc. TERA dont know but seem dont have much high content so cant grind gear yet i think.
one thin is gear grind other is lvling up grinding. and between Tera and LOTRO a can asure you is a huge diference betwen them. LOTRO quest are good, epic quest amazing.
TERA quest are all the same and boring but because combat and graphics are very good people can live with that. LOTRO more grind than some asian grinder??? can you name one?
LOTRO has indeed interesting quests (if you bother to actually read them, most gamers today seem incapable of doing such a thing). However, LOTRO has also one of the heaviest mob grinding system that dwarves pretty much all eastern P2P mmorpgs I've played with the exception of Lineage 2. The system is the deeds system, where if you're lucky you get to kill 250 mobs of the same kind, if you're unlucky 350 and if you're just cursed, those mobs are spread all over the map and they have high respawn time.
LOTRO is really a very bad example of a western mmorpg without mob grinding.
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by otacu
Not sure if serious....
There was nothing new that he listed in the games quest other than having to find the location.
Needing wood and supplies for people hiding is not a new concept just because they are hiding from zombies in a police department. Having to look inside a phone book for a location to find the items is no different than having to open up a journal or codex in another game outside of having to go to a phone book to do it.
They are minor changes. Note that I did not say a thing about them being different from the norm in games that hold your hand with a big flashy pointer telling you the quest location IS HERE!
The biggest difference beteween TSW and other more streamlined games is that if you click accept on most quests without reading them or watch the storyline, you're not going to solve them. Some have markers that lead you to key points but a good number of them do no. That's probably the reason Funcom limited the amount of active quests to so few, with a book of 30-50 quests, you'd forget what each one wanted you to do and needed to rely on waypoints to achieve anything.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You mouse over things in GW2? You must kind of not be real good at it. Do you find yourself getting hit alot or are you just fighting one thing at a time?
I never target with my mouse except in extreme circumstances. I have far better things to be doing with it.
This arguement can go on forever. You can have more then enough valid points for liking TERA, but know this, just like AION, after the first 3 months you will be able to tell ifthe product can last.
Many hated on RIFT but it outlasted all expectation. That was a success. For TERA i worry lots, many have grown pass shiny and overhyped games, and what makes TERA great isnt really anything new but clever marketing. I admit i never played pass lvl20, but the point of playing a game is to have fun and waste time, you should not have to tolerate a game just to get to the good parts, we have console and other pc games for that.
I did not buy Tera (Played the beta), nor even touched GW2. I dont like hyping games for players to feed on, but the only game that stands out the moment is TSW. Hate it or like it, nothing beats shooting lightning from your fingers and saying "UNLIMITED POWER!".
What clever marketing are you talking about? Tera's commercials were utterly stupid, insulting your own playerbase was not the brightest thing to do. And marketing in EU is non existent, still game is relatively popular for a niche title. I just wish Frogster didn't try so hard to cram the PEGI 12 down everyone's throat by cencorring a perfectly good game and future updates.
Comments
Telling folks to shut it is always a wonderful idea. It doesn't take a professional analyst nor whether if someone can tell the future or guessing the next lottery to see how these types of theme park MMO games usually end up in a short amount of time. I've given over half a dozen examples of other P2P MMO games that follow this very similar typical formula with maybe one new thing tacked on to it. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy said game, but the way some folks defend this game (and especially on the official forums) can get rather ridiculous.
I'd say enjoy the game if you do, and move on if you don't at all. If you want to criticize it and give your opinion, go for it, it is a forum after all. I've given examples even as to why it didn't do so hot in K-TERA as well as J-TERA... and for some reason I've seen these same topics crop up back again and again (especially this past week).
TERA has a FUN combat system. I played the GW2 beta... and it's not even close. TERA wins by a lot.
Having said that... as best i can tell GW2 will trounce TERA in just about every other area... TERA does have some nice aesthetcis - but I don't think I've ever played an MMO where the environment felt less interactive (though some have been close).
Being multiplayer doesn't justify 15$ per month on its own.
And about the content update :
1) Tera doesn't even have the base content of other subscription based mmos (bgs, raids, endgame activities other than dungeon farming).
2) Does Tera give constant update too ? Plus, I've yet to see a real content update until end of summer (battlegrounds, which are not really a content upgrade as they already existed).
p.s : this post is not a declaration of war against Tera fans. It's just an answer to the question. Put that gun down.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
what mmo isnt anymore
GW2 and TSW.
Horatio Kane here,
Informing you that GW2 has only been played for less than two days and TSW was not well received.
I recommend looking for some est. 2015 late 2014 releases to include into your arguments in future.
Otherwise you're statements may actually be liable to scrutiny.
Regards, Horatio Kane.
I'm the Hero Arborea deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
Heart quests are EXACTLY like quest hubs. The only difference is you automatically get the quest when you enter the zone (which removes all context for the quest because there's no npc interaction) and you get three or four quests in one. So, you can, for example, kill rodents in a farmer's field, pick crops, or water his plants to complete the quest, but since you end up likely doing a combination of all three anyway, you might as well have had a traditional quest hub and quest giver that gave you three quests. Same thing.
Purpose of hearts is just to give players a general indication of area that is focal point of events. Hearts themselves are simple things, the meat is all the events that happen around the hearts. Hearts are quick and mechanic as you are not meant to use them for much more than give you some direction. I guess the point here is, they are not 'quest hubs': while you can follow them and do stuff around them, you can just wander to any direction and run into something random event and do that and ignore all hearts.
If you replaced them with traditional quest hubs the game would be just so much worse. Presentation and execution is everything, even same base mechanics presented in different manner can feel new and refreshing. A lesson many MMO developers could learn from..
My Guild Wars 2 blog. Read it. The bestestest and most TRUTHEST BLOG EVER!!
But the different manner that heart quests are presented in isn't better, in my opinion. Why would I automatically know that a farmer needs help watering his crops or picking his harvest? Heart quests benefit the people that simply want stuff to do, but for the people looking for an actual game world, which GW2 is supposed to promote, they will be disappointed, at least as far as heart quests go.
As for the dynamic events, a few of them that I encountered while playing were pretty unique and fun to do, but a lot of others were pretty ordinary and definitely nothing special. Many of them (again, not all) could have been normal quests in another game.
Basically, what I'm getting at here is GW2 is a pretty nice game, but it certainly doesn't reinvent the wheel or herald the second coming like so many people think.
I understand where you are coming from there. I see them more like markers that say 'hey, this way you have something that might be interesting!'.
Dynamic Events is something lots of people did not seem to fully grasp, myself included. The fact that they are branching based on players performance and have real consequnces to your surrounding makes them heads and shoulders above any standard quest. I don't remember any MMO where a whole town was conquered, all NPC's slaughtered and buildings razed because I failed a quest? That is the core difference; it is not YOUR quest, it is everyones and that is why developers can make them impactfull.
The ones in starter zones seemed simpler and this impact was less visible in those locations. But when you wandered outside those core areas things started to get really, really interesting. Again, if you break them down to very core they are same sort of tasks and mechanics you have in other MMO's. But presentation and execution brings the world to life and gives purpose to players actions, something other games lack
My Guild Wars 2 blog. Read it. The bestestest and most TRUTHEST BLOG EVER!!
Rifts invasions would take out town npcs and camps and such and sometimes would hang around for a good amount of time. So other MMOs have done similar but GW2 does it better and adds a lot more variety..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The town often gets taken over (enemy npc, and you got to push them out, they call for reeforcments etc.), if not there are quest to undo the damage done. Someones durning these events you win, but a mob/npc dies and opps you have to do something about that, that action triggers other DEs, so its not option a or b, it might be option A, b, c, or d ot option a, a2 or b or option A, A2, A3, B, OR C OR C2. Most are a or b; and a, a2, or b.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
And after 15 minutes despawn they would...
But defending that town didn't lead to attacking the fort the enemies came from as an event. Or losing it leading to an event where you have to clear mobs out of the forest so they can lumber trees to rebuild. Just as examples
I need to play TSW more to get a better view of the quest over time.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This info is no longer accurate btw.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
That's the thing many will never realize unfortunately.
"It's a DE and you still gotta kill x and collect y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
How ever the way you do em and the way they are is the true difference.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
While the events themselves are nice, the "way you do em" is still just mouse over monster, target monster, kill. TERA's way of doing things is much more engaging and fun, even if the quests themselves aren't necessarily so.
You realize that could be said about literally every game in existence, right? Unless a game has no monsters to kill, all of them are about targetting them, then killing them. Since Asteroids, that's all it's been. So if you're looking at it that way, yes, that's all it devolves into. Presentation is very clearly key, which is what keeps people entertained which, by the way, is also your argument at the end there, so clearly you agree. What you're saying is you like TERA's combat more, which is fine, but you don't have much ground to stand on with your opinion on GW2 "questing"
TERA quest - kill 20 centaurs, standing in an area, not actually doing anything, then turn into an NPC that doesn't actually give a damn
GW2 event - kill 20 centaurs, as they lay seige to the town, attack NPCs (who can and will lose), build catapults, pretty much set the world on fire, and get more intelligent as more people join in to help, hunting down anyone that gets close if you let them take over the town.
I don't get this mentality where people seem to be completely unable to give credit to something where its due, as if suggesting any part of anything that's interesting and NOT the game their playing invalidates their choice. That's called a defense mechanism, and it's pretty tired. TERA and GW2 combat are very different, some are going to like TERA more, but to compare the two quest systems is laughable.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Thats debatable. I enjoyed GW2's combat more than any combat system I've played. It was deep, challenging and has great sense of control. It requires both reactive actions and tactical thinking. Saying it is target->kill holds true for just about any game and does not really do ANY game justice. And you can ignore the whole targeting part in GW2 aswell. Lots of GW2 systems seem really simple on paper, but this is one of those games that a feature list won't do any justice for
My Guild Wars 2 blog. Read it. The bestestest and most TRUTHEST BLOG EVER!!
Where did I compare the two quest systems? It seems your reading comprehension is what's laughable. I admitted that the presentation of the events is nice, and I said that TERA's combat (its "way of doing things") is fun while its quests are not. I love how the GW2 fanbois love to jump in guns blazing and defend their game without even reading what other people have to say.
Also, you are way overexaggerating the dynamism of GW2's events. The last 2 or 3 centaur town raids I participated in had a bunch of centaur running in, one wave at a time, to be promptly killed and driven back. And that was it. End of event. There are more complex ones, yes, but the majority are pretty simple and definitely overhyped by many fans.
Also, you can't target monsters in TERA, not in the mouse over, highlight mob, click method I said in my last post. So no, not "literally every other game in existence." TERA's not even the only one either.
Nothing there is being overexaggerated, perhaps it would have been better if you at least attempted to make it out of the beginner area where they attempt to take it easy on you? The level 15+ area is where the events can and will start kicking your ass. What I described was an actual event, in the 15+ human area, where a town is being raided by centaurs who set up catapults. The town is literally filled with fire, dust and smoke, NPCs are fighting and will fail if you don't help, and you have to not only push the centaurs back but take down the catapults. Afterward, you need to take out the outpost they have, and stop them from taking out a bridge to prevent escape during a future seige. None of that is made up, and if you aren't aware of it that's your own fault.
And you did indeed compare the two systems, if you see that then you have no understanding of anything you are actually typing, which in these forums is as common as it is sad. You said both GW2 and TERA devolve into KTX quests, but TERA's "way of doing things is much more engaging" following a sentence where you say "way of doing 'em" in regards to GW2. That's called a comparison. Perhaps, I don't know...proof read, before you hit the post button? Make sure you're getting the point across you actually mean to? It might help.
And spare me the fanboi fears, I was advocating for TERA before it was the cool thing to do. Don't let the GW2 banner fool you, I play a lot of games, and TERA ~was~ going to be one of them.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
It seems you failed to grasp that the "way of doing things" refers to combat, whereas the "things" themselves are the quests/events. You use combat as a way of doing things, i.e. quests/events. So yes, I was making a comparison between the two combat systems, or "way of doing things". Good of you to notice that. It's too bad you utterly missed the next point and thought that I was comparing the quest systems. I'm sorry you couldn't understand that and had to have that spelled out for you.
And yes, I did make it to the 15-25 human area, as well as the 15-25 snowy area that was connected to it. The only smoky area I recall is the centaur base itself, which I had an event to take out three specific centaurs and then a followup to kill their leader. The bridge thing I remember doing, but it started up on its own and wasn't connected to any other event. As I was exploring and going back and forth through the areas, I saw a couple events repeat and I just did them again for xp/pvp currency/whatever, but in the end you know that all you efforts do absolutely nothing and that each event is really just a self-contained microcosm within the area and has no true effect on the world as a whole.
Maybe I'm forgetting something. I probably am. But whatever the case, that's what events truly turn out to be, and no amount of epic narration/recounting of the events will make them more than that.
LOTRO has indeed interesting quests (if you bother to actually read them, most gamers today seem incapable of doing such a thing). However, LOTRO has also one of the heaviest mob grinding system that dwarves pretty much all eastern P2P mmorpgs I've played with the exception of Lineage 2. The system is the deeds system, where if you're lucky you get to kill 250 mobs of the same kind, if you're unlucky 350 and if you're just cursed, those mobs are spread all over the map and they have high respawn time.
LOTRO is really a very bad example of a western mmorpg without mob grinding.
The biggest difference beteween TSW and other more streamlined games is that if you click accept on most quests without reading them or watch the storyline, you're not going to solve them. Some have markers that lead you to key points but a good number of them do no. That's probably the reason Funcom limited the amount of active quests to so few, with a book of 30-50 quests, you'd forget what each one wanted you to do and needed to rely on waypoints to achieve anything.
You mouse over things in GW2? You must kind of not be real good at it. Do you find yourself getting hit alot or are you just fighting one thing at a time?
I never target with my mouse except in extreme circumstances. I have far better things to be doing with it.
This arguement can go on forever. You can have more then enough valid points for liking TERA, but know this, just like AION, after the first 3 months you will be able to tell ifthe product can last.
Many hated on RIFT but it outlasted all expectation. That was a success. For TERA i worry lots, many have grown pass shiny and overhyped games, and what makes TERA great isnt really anything new but clever marketing. I admit i never played pass lvl20, but the point of playing a game is to have fun and waste time, you should not have to tolerate a game just to get to the good parts, we have console and other pc games for that.
I did not buy Tera (Played the beta), nor even touched GW2. I dont like hyping games for players to feed on, but the only game that stands out the moment is TSW. Hate it or like it, nothing beats shooting lightning from your fingers and saying "UNLIMITED POWER!".
What clever marketing are you talking about? Tera's commercials were utterly stupid, insulting your own playerbase was not the brightest thing to do. And marketing in EU is non existent, still game is relatively popular for a niche title. I just wish Frogster didn't try so hard to cram the PEGI 12 down everyone's throat by cencorring a perfectly good game and future updates.