It has nothing to do with the game itself. While it's not everything that I expected based on what the developers have talked about, it is certainly worth the box price.
they delivered everything they talked about, exactly how they talked about it.
anyway, the way i see the whole store thing is: the more money ANet gets, the more content we'll get in return. these guys are very passionate about gaming, not just about creating cash cows (even though they did it very well). the store is optional because all players are on a level playing field, except when it comes to vanity items. so what's the problem?
however, i would be kinda bummed if i can only do transmutations by buying gems. do transmutations ever "drop" in the world?
Sorry for double Post! yes u can get Transmute Stones from Person Story + Map Completions.
Well they don't call it the Black Lion Trading Company for no reason. All kidding aside I've slowly been making peace with the cash shop because it seems that they're a growing company and want to make a profit but are willing to sometimes compromise as in the case of the dye system and megaphone.
The only annoying thing revolving around the cash shop is the spin.
Spin from some developers as seen with the dye system fiasco. And from some fans who try to downplay everything about the cash shop for no reason but to..."white knight". For example I noted recently that the 3 prices for transfers were $10, $20 and $30 but was quickly reminded that it's actually $22.50, $12.50 and $6.25 because they're gems leftover . I thought to myself, "don't they realize that as far as Anet is concerned you've spent $10, $20 and $30"? The extra gems you appear to have is virtual, it costs Anet virtually nothing to print those and it costs them virtually nothing to create the pixels (costumes, boosts) that you spend them on. Furthermore, the change from the minimum $5 for 400 gems to minimum $10 for 800 gems was made so that any gem buyer must invest at least $10 no matter what they want to buy. From Anet's perspective those sunglasses for 175 gems cost just as much as that full costume for 800 gems. But I digress.
The latest issue has been Anet being both a buyer and seller in the gem market, at least at the start. It's too soon to tell if it's a bad thing or good thing for all involved.
All in all, I'd say that taking into account what the game provides already, tthe cash shop as of BWE3 is still ethical.
I don't give a damn if it's greedy or not, if it's ArenaNet or NC Soft who will make money out of it, as long as the game is fun to play and I can enjoy it without spending real money in gemstore, or with spending as much as I can afford and I'm willing to (depending on how much fun the game is).
If the game isn't fun, has major technical issues, it will fail, regardless of the bussines model and amount of hype it generates before release.
If the game is fun and people can afford it, they will play it, no matter if it's subscription, gemstore or offering of food and gold made in the temple of almighty Arenanet.
Caliburn101 can you confirm that boosts from mystic chests do not work in WvWvW?
Can anyone confirm that?
Can anyone also confirm that they do not stack with similar ones from guild perks?
I would like to see this confirmation as well.
Boosts works in WvWvW.
Not sure on the stacking though.
The buffs only apply to PvE. I used the speed buff one and noticed no difference in speed in WvW until I went to lions arch. When you use the speed buff item in WvW, it gives a "speed buff". Mousing over it says something along the lines of "Does not apply to pvp". Please do not spread misinformation.
Could be worse. Could be Funcom and TSW who not only has a subscription, but also has a cash shop and is subject to all the speculation in this thread made by TSW players. Not doing too hot, add some flavor to the shop so people invest more in FC points.
I'll stick with GW2, which won't charge me to look at the cash shop. Also, looking at it, it's not like it sells anything good. I wouldn't even buy a mystic key, because most of the time, when I find one, all my chests have another in there.
Is character bound dyes more fun than account bound dyes? Considering they specifically said that because of the huge number of dyes in the system they would be unlocked per account, not per character, the decision to make them character bound starts to feel like it was driven by the cash shop rather than fun. Here's the specific quote if you don't want to go through the link.
Colors will be unlocked, not muled.
Storage was always a factor when it came to dye colors in Guild Wars. The new system would cripple most inventories if we required characters to lug all the dyes around. Fear not! The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out. Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
This is just an example, but you can already see that the Gem Store WILL influence the game design. I do very much find it disingenuous of ArenaNet to build good will in the community with the "no sub fees, we're all about the player experience" line, essentially setting themselves above other MMORPG developers, only to implement a far more aggressive revenue generation plan than a subscription model. They are cashing in on the good will they created through misleading statements. How can you not find that at least a little bit morally unsound?
And just to reiterate. I enjoy the game. I have played in all three BWEs and can't wait to play at headstart and release. However, I refuse to support the Gem Store in it's current implementation because of the way the game has been marketed and because it feels like they attempted to mislead me into loving them as the "good" company, then cash in on it. (and yes, I can afford to purchase gems and do see an advantage in doing so, but I'd rather not compromise my beliefs)
Is character bound dyes more fun than account bound dyes? Considering they specifically said that because of the huge number of dyes in the system they would be unlocked per account, not per character, the decision to make them character bound starts to feel like it was driven by the cash shop rather than fun. Here's the specific quote if you don't want to go through the link.
Colors will be unlocked, not muled.
Storage was always a factor when it came to dye colors in Guild Wars. The new system would cripple most inventories if we required characters to lug all the dyes around. Fear not! The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out. Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
This is just an example, but you can already see that the Gem Store WILL influence the game design. I do very much find it disingenuous of ArenaNet to build good will in the community with the "no sub fees, we're all about the player experience" line, essentially setting themselves above other MMORPG developers, only to implement a far more aggressive revenue generation plan than a subscription model. They are cashing in on the good will they created through misleading statements. How can you not find that at least a little bit morally unsound?
And just to reiterate. I enjoy the game. I have played in all three BWEs and can't wait to play at headstart and release. However, I refuse to support the Gem Store in it's current implementation because of the way the game has been marketed and because it feels like they attempted to mislead me into loving them as the "good" company, then cash in on it. (and yes, I can afford to purchase gems and do see an advantage in doing so, but I'd rather not compromise my beliefs)
I am confused... so being able to buy dye (which is also ingame...) is bad?
I do not understand what you mean by current implementation. You can use ingame gold to buy stuff withing the store you know, also real cash. So, basically everything is open to you, so even if certain colors (dyes) are only within the store, you can get them still with ingame gold. Also, quit rezzing this. We all get your point, even if it doesn't make sense lol.
Is character bound dyes more fun than account bound dyes? Considering they specifically said that because of the huge number of dyes in the system they would be unlocked per account, not per character, the decision to make them character bound starts to feel like it was driven by the cash shop rather than fun. Here's the specific quote if you don't want to go through the link.
Colors will be unlocked, not muled.
Storage was always a factor when it came to dye colors in Guild Wars. The new system would cripple most inventories if we required characters to lug all the dyes around. Fear not! The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out. Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
This is just an example, but you can already see that the Gem Store WILL influence the game design. I do very much find it disingenuous of ArenaNet to build good will in the community with the "no sub fees, we're all about the player experience" line, essentially setting themselves above other MMORPG developers, only to implement a far more aggressive revenue generation plan than a subscription model. They are cashing in on the good will they created through misleading statements. How can you not find that at least a little bit morally unsound?
And just to reiterate. I enjoy the game. I have played in all three BWEs and can't wait to play at headstart and release. However, I refuse to support the Gem Store in it's current implementation because of the way the game has been marketed and because it feels like they attempted to mislead me into loving them as the "good" company, then cash in on it. (and yes, I can afford to purchase gems and do see an advantage in doing so, but I'd rather not compromise my beliefs)
Dye drops are not a rare thing--ive gotten at least 20 drops each BWE. Selling them on cash shop is NOT backhanded, disingenuous, or anything, it gives those that would PREFER to spend money on buying dyes they want to do so, instead of waiting for that COSMETIC item to drop in game. Also, dyes can be sold on AH, most dyes will be relatively cheap on there, some will be more expensive. Anet is IN NO WAY forcing people to spend money for dyes, they are just giving the option to those who dont care about wasting money. I personally will not spend much money on items in cash shop, but I have friends that love buying cosmetic items from cash shops in other games and will be doing so in GW2 as well, because they WANT to. Hell, Anet (and any other gaming place) could sell the most pointless things on cash shops for all I care (look at the useless things that Valve sells in TF2 shop), especially when they are ALSO having the items drop in game. (I say kudos to their intelligent staff for pointing out that some people will be appreciative of the possibility of purchasing specific dyes in cash shop!)
Is character bound dyes more fun than account bound dyes? Considering they specifically said that because of the huge number of dyes in the system they would be unlocked per account, not per character, the decision to make them character bound starts to feel like it was driven by the cash shop rather than fun. Here's the specific quote if you don't want to go through the link.
Colors will be unlocked, not muled.
Storage was always a factor when it came to dye colors in Guild Wars. The new system would cripple most inventories if we required characters to lug all the dyes around. Fear not! The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out. Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
This is just an example, but you can already see that the Gem Store WILL influence the game design. I do very much find it disingenuous of ArenaNet to build good will in the community with the "no sub fees, we're all about the player experience" line, essentially setting themselves above other MMORPG developers, only to implement a far more aggressive revenue generation plan than a subscription model. They are cashing in on the good will they created through misleading statements. How can you not find that at least a little bit morally unsound?
And just to reiterate. I enjoy the game. I have played in all three BWEs and can't wait to play at headstart and release. However, I refuse to support the Gem Store in it's current implementation because of the way the game has been marketed and because it feels like they attempted to mislead me into loving them as the "good" company, then cash in on it. (and yes, I can afford to purchase gems and do see an advantage in doing so, but I'd rather not compromise my beliefs)
You are working under the assumption that an optonal cash shop is more "aggressive" than a subscription model without substantiating that assumption with anything except personal opinion. Even here, dyes drop in game pretty often. I got about 10 or so up to level 29 this BETA weekend and there was a pretty good variety. When they said they were account bound, they also didn't drop in game. So there was a good compromise on the system that actually makes it so I never have to go to the store to recieve a good variety of dyes.
I view an optional cash shop as far, far less agressive than a forced to pay subscription model. And so our views will never come together.
Are all items in the cash shop like that or just dyes and bank slots?
I may have not been clear. That is what they originally announced. It has since been changed to per character dye unlocks. It was stated that the reasoning behind the change was that dye unlocks were seen as character progression (despite the random nature of unlocks and ability to purchase them). The decision seems to fall upon a new addition to the ArenaNet team, Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer. Prior to being hired by ArenaNet, she was the Lead Producer of Maple Story at Nexon.
Now I have nothing against people being compensated for thier work. The developers should definitely be rewarded for creating a game that's definitely cooler than most that have come out in years. However, here's the real kicker. ArenaNet is owned by NCSoft. NCSoft is a publicly traded company. This means that people that are getting compensated for the developers work are the shareholders, not the developers. People that contributed nothing to the creative development of the game are the ones that are collecting the money you spend in the Gem Store. Buying gems does not support ArenaNet directly, it lines the pockets of investors. In that aspect, ArenaNet is no less greedy than Blizzard or Nexon. That last sentence does make me a bit sad, as I had really hoped for better from ArenaNet. All of the developer videos and comments over the years seemed to paint a different picture.
Oh well. I can play the game without purchasing gems. There are slight annoyances, such as not having access to the "full game" without deleting progress or purchasing additional character slots*.
Hmm. While I have some issues with the rest of the OP's post, the above are wrong enough to deserve comment.
NCSoft stockholders will see dividends. Anet employees have presumably been paid for their efforts and are likely to receive bonuses, especially if the game is highly successful. Suggesting that the developers will not be rewarded betrays a fundamental naivete about business.
As to "the full game" ... developers determine what the box price buys, not the customers. This is nothing new. P2P game box prices don't buy you everything produced; sometimes even the sub fee does not. RPG's often offer expansions or DLC for s a fee. This is merely more entitlement speaking.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
1) They give absolutely no boost whatsoever. Absolutely none. Zero. Its not even pay to progress pve faster, its... its just purely cosmetic.
2) They drop at a good rate ingame.
3) They can be purchased for game money on auction house (exact ones you need, and real money only buys you random ones)
So the change from acc wide to char wide is just fine for me. It just means that on one character i unlock everything, and on another character i only unlock that which i will use.
those are included in mystic chests. Your answer was right infront of your face... next time do your own homework.
You got me here. I've never recieved any of those boosts or seen them before.
Are those boosts available for use in WvW?
I do not believe anything official has been said about their use in WvW, but I do know that people were able to use them in WvW during the beta weekend events. Considering it has been stated multiple times that WvW is not designed to be a level playing field, I would expect those boosts to apply in WvW. The only "fair" PvP is structured PvP and they do not work there, of course.
Uncool. Very uncool.
Bear in mind that you can receive similar bonuses from guild through influence and research, as well as consumable items gained through cooking (no xp buffs, just stat buffs). It's not like cash shop is the only way to get buffs.
Do the Mystic Chest buffs stack with the Guild buffs/food buffs?
Not sure, not tested it.
The reason I mentioned guild buffs was because they tend to last longer (days instead of an hour) while providing a smaller percentage increase, which to me seems to be on par, if not better than gem store buffs. Unless of course you go on a spending spree and buy enough buffs to last for every single hour of playtime...which I really don't see happening. Point being that you can get same buffs for free. Not as high percentages, but lasting longer instead.
Same with food buffs - avaliable relatively easily for free (if you gather ingredients/craft yourself), or for a small cost (purchasing from other players for in game gold).
As long as it not Pay to Win like other MMO's with cash shops i dont mind. They had a cash shop in the original guild wars, they've basically just expanded upon it seeming this project is ALOT bigger and with that comes ALOT more emphasis on finances..
Plus if it means we get more regular content updates im all for it
Are all items in the cash shop like that or just dyes and bank slots?
I may have not been clear. That is what they originally announced. It has since been changed to per character dye unlocks. It was stated that the reasoning behind the change was that dye unlocks were seen as character progression (despite the random nature of unlocks and ability to purchase them). The decision seems to fall upon a new addition to the ArenaNet team, Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer. Prior to being hired by ArenaNet, she was the Lead Producer of Maple Story at Nexon.
Very interesting.
Sounds like Arenanet decided that they were not doing a good enough job with "monetizing" their content, so in March they appointed somebody from (Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer) to focus on making CS profits. Just by looking at her title, her job is obviously going to be focused on driving CS sales, i.e. "monetizing" game content.
NCSoft is the ultimate boss here, so they will dictate policy. Perhaps they "encouraged" Anet to create this new position. Her late addition to the GW2 team may well indicate that NCSoft took note of the huge growth in GW2's popularity, and suddenly realized they were looking at a major opportunity to make CS profits.
it will be interesting to see whether NCSoft can resist the temptation to raid GW2's CS cookie jar...
Ms. Cox (who worked for NCSoft in 2007) will be trying her utmost to justify her paycheck as well. And she's no slouch, she generally gets promoted or changes to a better position within at most 2 years at any job. So she delivers the goods, so to speak. And her job at Anet is to make more money out of the Cash Shop.
buying gems with real money is only for people that really want to have things really fast. If you are not willing to pay, you can just trade gold for gems, and get the exact same items. With this system, even if they decided to sell, lets say, an op set of armor (i have not seen anything like this, just an example), you would be able to buy it with gold. So even though the game have a cash shop its far from being game breaking.
It has nothing to do with the game itself. While it's not everything that I expected based on what the developers have talked about, it is certainly worth the box price. I have already purchased my copy and look forward to playing in about a month.
What is bothering me is the cash shop, or Gem Store as it's called. The developers have been heavily playing on the whole "MMORPGs don't need a subscription fee and we're awesome because we don't have one!". Of course, it's been implied that all of the other MMORPGs with sub fees are greedy because it's not needed. Supposedly box sales alone are adequate. That changed to supplemented by a cosmetic and convenience cash shop. Alright, I can accept that. A few dollars here and there from people that appreciate the game. That's totally fair.
This past weekend the actual gem pricing and cash shop item pricing was revealed. It was significantly higher than many people were expecting as far as actual value per gem. The number of gems per $ is largely irrelevant, it's more what those gems can actually buy that creates the 'value' of the gems. This cash shop is designed to pull more money from the average player in a shorter time frame than a subscription could ever hope to accomplish. It's appalling greedy but extremely clever at the same time.
Here's why it's clever. They have successfully dissociated gold and gems from real money when they are all very much connected. There are TONS of people that don't understand that gem prices (in gold) are determined by the amount of gems that are being sold by people that have purchased them for real money. These people that say, "Well, you never even have to spend money on gems, I can just buy them with gold I get from playing.", really don't understand. First off, the cost of gems is going to skyrocket. How much gold do you think you're going to have to farm for me to give you $10 (or 800 gems)? Yeah, a whole lot. Second, if you purchase gems with gold, you are buying gems that someone purchased. Those gems are not being created for you, they were created for the person that paid real money for them. You are essentially driving gem sales by selling your time for gems, which were bought with real money. Now, there will be people that never use the cash shop and never purchase gems with gold or real money. However, if they ever purchase a dye or mini on the Trading Post, they just indirectly supported the Gem Store. It's quite likely that the dye or mini was purchased for gems.
Now lets get into the greedy part. They have a "magic black box" that the gems and gold go into for conversions. I put 800 gems in this magic black box and it gives me some amount of gold. I put 20 gold in this magic black box and it gives me some amount of gems. I would expect that gems were never taxed in this conversion, but I really have no way of knowing. I assume that market forces are driving the price change with some algorithm that is crafted well enough that it derives accurate prices from market pressure. I also expect that the market isn't being manipulated in which ever direction it needs to be to drive additional gem sales. Do I know any of this to be true? No, it all happens inside a "magic black box" that I can't see into.
I can't believe how many people have purchased gems during the last beta weekend. The game doesn't even come out for another month and I read about people spending hundreds of dollars on gems. That's a whole lot of months of subs that have been sold before the game even released for a non-subscription game. Now, yes, I know those are not actual subs, but I can assure you that the numbers make a sub game jealous. Subscription games include 30 days of free gametime, meaning they don't collect anything beyond the box price during the first month.
Now I have nothing against people being compensated for thier work. The developers should definitely be rewarded for creating a game that's definitely cooler than most that have come out in years. However, here's the real kicker. ArenaNet is owned by NCSoft. NCSoft is a publicly traded company. This means that people that are getting compensated for the developers work are the shareholders, not the developers. People that contributed nothing to the creative development of the game are the ones that are collecting the money you spend in the Gem Store. Buying gems does not support ArenaNet directly, it lines the pockets of investors. In that aspect, ArenaNet is no less greedy than Blizzard or Nexon. That last sentence does make me a bit sad, as I had really hoped for better from ArenaNet. All of the developer videos and comments over the years seemed to paint a different picture.
Oh well. I can play the game without purchasing gems. There are slight annoyances, such as not having access to the "full game" without deleting progress or purchasing additional character slots*. The locked bag slots I see every time I open my inventory. The constant Mystic Chest drops. Only the first is annoying, but I suppose I can select three classes I don't want to play. This got to be kind of long. Please feel free to share your thoughts.
* 5 character slots allows for all races, but not all class created simultaneously. It could go either way in whether or not one has "full access" to the game with the box. Both sides have merit.
TL;DR - Read it, it's interesting. If you can't be bothered, please don't bother to reply either. Thanks
Well said, and I agree.
It seems the cash shop model is taking over, and that is sad. I persoally did not enjoy GW2 and won't be purchasing it so it's not a worry for me, but there will be some game in the future that I do enjoy and chances are it will have the pay to win option it it and that will make me sad.
like they are screwing up aion after 3.1 patch . they will screw this game too . asian comapnies are not greedy but they hire people in the west who are greedy .so end result is same bullshit here
The cash shop is just a typical hook, its purpose is too take advantage of people that can't help but spend money. What you really need to do is stop worrying about convertion rates and start asking yourself "Do I really need any of this junk?".
From my perspective its a win-win, Arena.net make more money and I eventually will be able to spend my ingame gold to buy cash shop items if I want them. I also don't really view the purchase of "services" or items that require actual time to create as unreasonable.
Are all items in the cash shop like that or just dyes and bank slots?
I may have not been clear. That is what they originally announced. It has since been changed to per character dye unlocks. It was stated that the reasoning behind the change was that dye unlocks were seen as character progression (despite the random nature of unlocks and ability to purchase them). The decision seems to fall upon a new addition to the ArenaNet team, Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer. Prior to being hired by ArenaNet, she was the Lead Producer of Maple Story at Nexon.
It is amazing to see, in this time and age, people thinking that companies wanting to make money as a bad thing. There are good ways and bad ways to earn money. EA, Activision et al are examples of bad decisions regarding moneymaking. ArenaNet, so far, has shown that they handle the balance between money and product longevity quite well.
But, in the, end, they are in it for the money. As it should be. At least they have the guts to try new ways of doing so.
Comments
Sorry for double Post! yes u can get Transmute Stones from Person Story + Map Completions.
i originally bought 2 accounts for original GW because extra char slots were not possible
-- extra char slots are better investment than another account
some game perks may be account wide
EQ2 fan sites
Well they don't call it the Black Lion Trading Company for no reason.
All kidding aside I've slowly been making peace with the cash shop because it seems that they're a growing company and want to make a profit but are willing to sometimes compromise as in the case of the dye system and megaphone.
The only annoying thing revolving around the cash shop is the spin.
Spin from some developers as seen with the dye system fiasco. And from some fans who try to downplay everything about the cash shop for no reason but to..."white knight". For example I noted recently that the 3 prices for transfers were $10, $20 and $30 but was quickly reminded that it's actually $22.50, $12.50 and $6.25 because they're gems leftover . I thought to myself, "don't they realize that as far as Anet is concerned you've spent $10, $20 and $30"? The extra gems you appear to have is virtual, it costs Anet virtually nothing to print those and it costs them virtually nothing to create the pixels (costumes, boosts) that you spend them on. Furthermore, the change from the minimum $5 for 400 gems to minimum $10 for 800 gems was made so that any gem buyer must invest at least $10 no matter what they want to buy. From Anet's perspective those sunglasses for 175 gems cost just as much as that full costume for 800 gems. But I digress.
The latest issue has been Anet being both a buyer and seller in the gem market, at least at the start. It's too soon to tell if it's a bad thing or good thing for all involved.
All in all, I'd say that taking into account what the game provides already, tthe cash shop as of BWE3 is still ethical.
I don't give a damn if it's greedy or not, if it's ArenaNet or NC Soft who will make money out of it, as long as the game is fun to play and I can enjoy it without spending real money in gemstore, or with spending as much as I can afford and I'm willing to (depending on how much fun the game is).
If the game isn't fun, has major technical issues, it will fail, regardless of the bussines model and amount of hype it generates before release.
If the game is fun and people can afford it, they will play it, no matter if it's subscription, gemstore or offering of food and gold made in the temple of almighty Arenanet.
The buffs only apply to PvE. I used the speed buff one and noticed no difference in speed in WvW until I went to lions arch. When you use the speed buff item in WvW, it gives a "speed buff". Mousing over it says something along the lines of "Does not apply to pvp". Please do not spread misinformation.
I will give GW2 15 bucks a month like I would any other sub game I would play. That's it.
That was my thought - only they do not have a $15 option.
Could be worse. Could be Funcom and TSW who not only has a subscription, but also has a cash shop and is subject to all the speculation in this thread made by TSW players. Not doing too hot, add some flavor to the shop so people invest more in FC points.
I'll stick with GW2, which won't charge me to look at the cash shop. Also, looking at it, it's not like it sells anything good. I wouldn't even buy a mystic key, because most of the time, when I find one, all my chests have another in there.
How about the "Is It Fun?" blog post on ArenaNet's website.
Is character bound dyes more fun than account bound dyes? Considering they specifically said that because of the huge number of dyes in the system they would be unlocked per account, not per character, the decision to make them character bound starts to feel like it was driven by the cash shop rather than fun. Here's the specific quote if you don't want to go through the link.
Colors will be unlocked, not muled.
Storage was always a factor when it came to dye colors in Guild Wars. The new system would cripple most inventories if we required characters to lug all the dyes around. Fear not! The dye hues themselves will be unlockable through various means, both in-game and out. Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
This is just an example, but you can already see that the Gem Store WILL influence the game design. I do very much find it disingenuous of ArenaNet to build good will in the community with the "no sub fees, we're all about the player experience" line, essentially setting themselves above other MMORPG developers, only to implement a far more aggressive revenue generation plan than a subscription model. They are cashing in on the good will they created through misleading statements. How can you not find that at least a little bit morally unsound?
And just to reiterate. I enjoy the game. I have played in all three BWEs and can't wait to play at headstart and release. However, I refuse to support the Gem Store in it's current implementation because of the way the game has been marketed and because it feels like they attempted to mislead me into loving them as the "good" company, then cash in on it. (and yes, I can afford to purchase gems and do see an advantage in doing so, but I'd rather not compromise my beliefs)
I am confused... so being able to buy dye (which is also ingame...) is bad?
I do not understand what you mean by current implementation. You can use ingame gold to buy stuff withing the store you know, also real cash. So, basically everything is open to you, so even if certain colors (dyes) are only within the store, you can get them still with ingame gold. Also, quit rezzing this. We all get your point, even if it doesn't make sense lol.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Dye drops are not a rare thing--ive gotten at least 20 drops each BWE. Selling them on cash shop is NOT backhanded, disingenuous, or anything, it gives those that would PREFER to spend money on buying dyes they want to do so, instead of waiting for that COSMETIC item to drop in game. Also, dyes can be sold on AH, most dyes will be relatively cheap on there, some will be more expensive. Anet is IN NO WAY forcing people to spend money for dyes, they are just giving the option to those who dont care about wasting money. I personally will not spend much money on items in cash shop, but I have friends that love buying cosmetic items from cash shops in other games and will be doing so in GW2 as well, because they WANT to. Hell, Anet (and any other gaming place) could sell the most pointless things on cash shops for all I care (look at the useless things that Valve sells in TF2 shop), especially when they are ALSO having the items drop in game. (I say kudos to their intelligent staff for pointing out that some people will be appreciative of the possibility of purchasing specific dyes in cash shop!)
You are working under the assumption that an optonal cash shop is more "aggressive" than a subscription model without substantiating that assumption with anything except personal opinion. Even here, dyes drop in game pretty often. I got about 10 or so up to level 29 this BETA weekend and there was a pretty good variety. When they said they were account bound, they also didn't drop in game. So there was a good compromise on the system that actually makes it so I never have to go to the store to recieve a good variety of dyes.
I view an optional cash shop as far, far less agressive than a forced to pay subscription model. And so our views will never come together.
unlocked per account, not per character
Are all items in the cash shop like that or just dyes and bank slots?
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I may have not been clear. That is what they originally announced. It has since been changed to per character dye unlocks. It was stated that the reasoning behind the change was that dye unlocks were seen as character progression (despite the random nature of unlocks and ability to purchase them). The decision seems to fall upon a new addition to the ArenaNet team, Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer. Prior to being hired by ArenaNet, she was the Lead Producer of Maple Story at Nexon.
Hmm. While I have some issues with the rest of the OP's post, the above are wrong enough to deserve comment.
NCSoft stockholders will see dividends. Anet employees have presumably been paid for their efforts and are likely to receive bonuses, especially if the game is highly successful. Suggesting that the developers will not be rewarded betrays a fundamental naivete about business.
As to "the full game" ... developers determine what the box price buys, not the customers. This is nothing new. P2P game box prices don't buy you everything produced; sometimes even the sub fee does not. RPG's often offer expansions or DLC for s a fee. This is merely more entitlement speaking.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Well, actually, with dyes, i see no problem:
1) They give absolutely no boost whatsoever. Absolutely none. Zero. Its not even pay to progress pve faster, its... its just purely cosmetic.
2) They drop at a good rate ingame.
3) They can be purchased for game money on auction house (exact ones you need, and real money only buys you random ones)
So the change from acc wide to char wide is just fine for me. It just means that on one character i unlock everything, and on another character i only unlock that which i will use.
Not sure, not tested it.
The reason I mentioned guild buffs was because they tend to last longer (days instead of an hour) while providing a smaller percentage increase, which to me seems to be on par, if not better than gem store buffs. Unless of course you go on a spending spree and buy enough buffs to last for every single hour of playtime...which I really don't see happening. Point being that you can get same buffs for free. Not as high percentages, but lasting longer instead.
Same with food buffs - avaliable relatively easily for free (if you gather ingredients/craft yourself), or for a small cost (purchasing from other players for in game gold).
As long as it not Pay to Win like other MMO's with cash shops i dont mind. They had a cash shop in the original guild wars, they've basically just expanded upon it seeming this project is ALOT bigger and with that comes ALOT more emphasis on finances..
Plus if it means we get more regular content updates im all for it
Very interesting.
Sounds like Arenanet decided that they were not doing a good enough job with "monetizing" their content, so in March they appointed somebody from (Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer) to focus on making CS profits. Just by looking at her title, her job is obviously going to be focused on driving CS sales, i.e. "monetizing" game content.
NCSoft is the ultimate boss here, so they will dictate policy. Perhaps they "encouraged" Anet to create this new position. Her late addition to the GW2 team may well indicate that NCSoft took note of the huge growth in GW2's popularity, and suddenly realized they were looking at a major opportunity to make CS profits.
it will be interesting to see whether NCSoft can resist the temptation to raid GW2's CS cookie jar...
Ms. Cox (who worked for NCSoft in 2007) will be trying her utmost to justify her paycheck as well. And she's no slouch, she generally gets promoted or changes to a better position within at most 2 years at any job. So she delivers the goods, so to speak. And her job at Anet is to make more money out of the Cash Shop.
buying gems with real money is only for people that really want to have things really fast. If you are not willing to pay, you can just trade gold for gems, and get the exact same items. With this system, even if they decided to sell, lets say, an op set of armor (i have not seen anything like this, just an example), you would be able to buy it with gold. So even though the game have a cash shop its far from being game breaking.
Thats why i think that hybrid way of sub/cash shop is the best one like in LOTRO
like they are screwing up aion after 3.1 patch . they will screw this game too . asian comapnies are not greedy but they hire people in the west who are greedy .so end result is same bullshit here
The cash shop is just a typical hook, its purpose is too take advantage of people that can't help but spend money. What you really need to do is stop worrying about convertion rates and start asking yourself "Do I really need any of this junk?".
From my perspective its a win-win, Arena.net make more money and I eventually will be able to spend my ingame gold to buy cash shop items if I want them. I also don't really view the purchase of "services" or items that require actual time to create as unreasonable.
Very interesting but also sad:&.
It is amazing to see, in this time and age, people thinking that companies wanting to make money as a bad thing. There are good ways and bad ways to earn money. EA, Activision et al are examples of bad decisions regarding moneymaking. ArenaNet, so far, has shown that they handle the balance between money and product longevity quite well.
But, in the, end, they are in it for the money. As it should be. At least they have the guts to try new ways of doing so.