Don't expliot or cheat. You can't be this dense. And if fanboys like me upset you, why are you even reading my posts? You do know you can block don't you?
You dont upset me if anything its entertaining, obviously exploiting and cheating is wrong all i said was they are killing their game by banning so many, its Anets fault for even allowing exploits or cheats.
Simple analogy, see if you can relate yeah?
Go to ATM, withdraw 20 bucks, get 200.
Option A, withdraw a shit ton of money.
Option B, go in and tell banking institute ATM is effered up.
What's the difference from this and the exploits being banned for?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Don't expliot or cheat. You can't be this dense. And if fanboys like me upset you, why are you even reading my posts? You do know you can block don't you?
You dont upset me if anything its entertaining, obviously exploiting and cheating is wrong all i said was they are killing their game by banning so many, its Anets fault for even allowing exploits or cheats.
Simple analogy, see if you can relate yeah?
Go to ATM, withdraw 20 bucks, get 200.
Option A, withdraw a shit ton of money.
Option B, go in and tell banking institute ATM is effered up.
What's the difference from this and the exploits being banned for?
Do that once and I'm not sure I'd call it exploiting. Now...repeat taking 20 bucks out of the machine, getting 200 each time in return until it's empty or your account runs out...then yeah. Sounds like what was happening was more of the latter.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
Don't expliot or cheat. You can't be this dense. And if fanboys like me upset you, why are you even reading my posts? You do know you can block don't you?
You dont upset me if anything its entertaining, obviously exploiting and cheating is wrong all i said was they are killing their game by banning so many, its Anets fault for even allowing exploits or cheats.
Simple analogy, see if you can relate yeah?
Go to ATM, withdraw 20 bucks, get 200.
Option A, withdraw a shit ton of money.
Option B, go in and tell banking institute ATM is effered up.
What's the difference from this and the exploits being banned for?
Do that once and I'm not sure I'd call it exploiting. Now...repeat taking 20 bucks out of the machine, getting 200 each time in return until it's empty or your account runs out...then yeah. Sounds like what was happening was more of the latter.
That's waht was happening though, they 72 hour banned anyone who kind of used it, IE bought 5-10 karma weapons for dirt cheap, but some people bought THOUSANDS of level 40 karma vendors, just to throw them in the mystic forge to try and make bigger better weapons.
that's what was being done, they kept taking 20 bucks out and snickered, then cry wolf when they got banned for it becuase "It's ANets fault", when obviously there is a right and a wrong.
Thats what a majority of the perma bans are being sent out for. Some 72 hours as well, for people who didn't buy thousands, but maybe a few, and also some 72 hour bans for vulgar language, and bad names. Obviously some of them just had to rename their toon, but for relaly bad names, like racist, sexist and what not, they are getting 72 hour bad with 1 time warning (ban is the warning).
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I'm glad I can help with that. If you continue to be bored after our friendly little conversation, might I suggest buying GW2 for some fantastic entertainment. I would like to caution you though, if you are caught cheating, it is very likely you will be perma-banned.
Greed is the main factor why companies using subscriptions don't prosecute such behaviour properly like Anet can afford now when they have no subs. I mean when some chief with $$ in his eyes listens to his employee who gives an idea to perma ban 3000 people they do the math: 3000 people x 12€ subs = 36.000,00 EUR lost OMG and go "U MAD" and order 3 day bans.
The exploiter however goes:
1. Exploit exploit exploit omnomonom
2. gets banned for 3 days LOL WHATEVER
3. earn thousands of preeeciousssss goooooold omonomonom
4. repeat and PROFIT?!?!? Hell yeah!
Well done ANet, and please keep it up!!
Don't get all flimsy. This is the only way to make your game better.
Some or many of the banned players wont buy it again which means no gems or expansions bought.
If you let people get away with anything you get a bad reputation, as Lineage 2 have for botters and exploiters. That can cost you a lot more than a few banned players.
While I agree to some extent.. you have to think that there are players who WILL buy the game again, and thats another sale that you didn't have before...
And therein lies the problem for me. Is a permaban really worth it? Couldn't they ban players for a month? Remove all the items or gold they made? Is it necessary for a permaban? I don't think so -- in a game with no subscription.. they could throw a long term ban without making it permanent instead of forcing players to pay for the game again -- which would put them back in the game sooner anyways.
I always hated exploits like these.... while, sure, some players went way too far buying thousands of items... it was a fault of ArenaNet. Not at the amount of the exploit.. but if there wasn't one, nobody would have been banned... right?
Hm. I look at it really simple:
If you do not exploit, you are safe. If you DO exploit, you might get banned. Look, it's not like the permabans are handed out to people accidentally doing it once or twice. We're talking about dozens upon dozens of times.
Im surprised though. After all these MMOs where exploiters and botters were pretty much ignored, someone finally steps up and kicks ass, yet people STILL complain?
I'm happy they responded quickly and swiftly.. I just feel a permaban for a B2P game is a little harsh... extended ban time makes more sense to me... instead of forcing players to buy the game again. It seems almost beneficial to permaban as eventually those players will likely buy the game again anyways.
Either way it doesn't affect me, I'm not planning on exploiting anything..
Originally posted by Varking What is truly funny is that I never even got a temp ban for doing the same thing. I was a large scale user of this tactic, as my whole guild was, and nothing has happened to any of us.
I choose to not believe you.
What server are you on and what is your character and guild names?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
NOTE:The following is from someone who has NOT BEEN BANNED nor apprciates excessive trolling in chat.
I think A-net is being incredibly douchey with the way they are handling bans, 72 hours for saying things like faggot or fuck in chat is mind boggling to me. With that said I do have to admit it is refreshing to not see chat flooded with trolling that makes it impossible to ask any sort of question to the community (cough) tera....
Name changes have also been very questionable from what I have read, I mean there have been alot of boardline bans where A-net is being overly sensitive.
My take on the whole thing is this, A-Net should have at least given some kind of BIG WARNING before the game went live as to the way they are handling this whole banning people nonsense. Players are not use to this kind of "Big Brother" patrolling nor has anyone ever expieranced this kind of moderating in a MMO before. Be decent to your customers and at least post something on your facebook as what to expect when the game goes live.
I have a theory though, 2 actually.
Theory 1 : Its no secret A-Net has developed one hell of a game, Tons of people involved with this project have put their heart and soul into the game for 5 LONG YEARS. Its their BABY, I think that whole team views this as more than a game and they seriously take offense to anyone who want to take a BIG STEAMY dump on their CHILD.
Theory 2 : Maybe A-net did not realize what a special game they actually created and the sales along with the overwhelming support made them realize they dropped the ball on this whole F2P Model. Lets be honest here , GW2 is the best MMO to come along since vanilla WOW. This is a game that should be subscrition based not F2P. I think when A-Net ran the numbers they realized alot of potential money is being lost. So how do they remedy this ? PERMA Bans my friends. This game is good & addicitive enough where perma banned players WOULD actually go out and buy another copy.....
Originally posted by Varking What is truly funny is that I never even got a temp ban for doing the same thing. I was a large scale user of this tactic, as my whole guild was, and nothing has happened to any of us.
I choose to not believe you.
What server are you on and what is your character and guild names?
Long thread. Not sure if this has been covered but:
Definition:
Exploit. Mostly used about multi-player games, an exploit can be defined as a case where a player knowingly uses a flaw in a game to gain an unfair advantage.
From Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct ( www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ )
17. You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.
Not sure why this thread is so long.
Because some people hate to accept the fact GW2 is massively successfull which will ineviteably affect their favourite MMORPG. And because their favourite game is even more boring than usual, lacking fresh content for almost a year and even a recent patch has nothing to offer they spend their time trolling the community of the competition.
It still laugh at the pathetic attempts to excuse this kind of malicious and intollerabe missbehaviour also know as exploitation.
The 1$ iPods or Flatscreens analogies are hilarious at best. These kids should try to readup on the godv damn laws of any civilized western nation. By common law not just does no vendor have any obligation to accept your attempts to exploit a pricing error and agree to any sort of purchasing contract at the advertised price (as long as its not a sham ie evidently labeling an item by purpose at 18.99 but the real price at the cashier reveals at similar but higher $19.99) Even if you clicked a purchase button in a shop they dont have to send it out. Vendors are even eligible to invalidate the purchasing contract through court AFTER you have purchased the itemand got it and force you to return it, if they can prove it was a technical or unintended error and take immidiate action. (Especially relevant to online shops with automated order systems) And then they are free to throw you out of their shop and order you not to enter it ever again and enforce that decission with police force.
If you want to use an analogy about "errors" by the service provider when using service, whether manual or technical, why not use a pretty similar and well known one?
What would you kids do if you went to a cashpoint and suddenly due to an error you can indefinitely draw out cash? You know the cashpoint is broken and could take as much as you want even when its clearly not intended.
a) you act like an amoral a******, call it the bank institutions "own fault", blame them the should have not let it break or never made that error in the system, make up excuses about a "though unfair world" for moral justification, take as much money as you can carry and run away in believe even if s.o. noticed at best you'd have to return the money.
b) you act like a lawful and moral citizen, report the error and do not try to exploit it at all, not even by a "tiny bit".
You chose a)? Well too bad! Thats the police at your door and a the judge waiting to hear your excuses about "the banks own fault"... and whoops there your go on your free trip to prison with charges of THEFT.
Well there go your analogies.
Edit: well wolvards just beat me to it I just saw
It's called ninja'ing My first one too!
I actually read your entire post, and it's spot on to how I feel too. I don't care if it's ANets fault, what's the MORAL thing to do?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
The game is BTP. They ban people and they make money. Either people buy the game again or the company saves because they have fewer people in game.
Permabans in a BTP are a win-win for the company. I bet they carry aa big stick all the time, just because it makes them money.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
The game is BTP. They ban people and they make money. Either people buy the game again or the company saves because they have fewer people in game.
Permabans in a BTP are a win-win for the company. I bet they carry aa big stick all the time, just because it makes them money.
It wouldnt of been any different if it was a subscription, you still have to buy a new account regardless. Anet did the right thing, nipping it in the bud and start out as you mean to go on.
Anet is not the first company to ban or suspend accounts for manipulating a broken feature. Those people knew exactly what they were doing, now we shall wait for all the whiners that get banned for botting soon.
"Please note this part of the statement above: "Thus, just this once, we will offer to convert permanent bans to 72-hour suspensions. Should those involved want to accept this offer of reinstatement, contact us on our support website--support.guildwars2.com—and submit a ticket through the "Ask a Question" tab. Please use the subject heading of "Karma Weapons Exploit Appeal", then confirm in the body of your ticket that you will delete any items/currency that you gained from the exploit. You should submit only one ticket. Once you have done so, we will lower your ban to 72 hours..."
This means you need to get in touch, agree to the terms, and when that is processed, your ban will be converted to 72 hours. It absolutely does not mean that you will submit a ticket and immediately be reinstated."
This part in particular....
"Please use the subject heading of "Karma Weapons Exploit Appeal", then confirm in the body of your ticket that you will delete any items/currency that you gained from the exploit"
In other words, openly admit you exploited looser, now del all those items in your account no matter what you got from the exploit,. then sometime down the road we will follow up look at your account and if it doesn't jive your axed!
lol nice one anet.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I'm glad they are being proactive about it, but they are making rather broad strokes with their bans. I know a number of people that were banned for things they didn't do (i.e. exploting / goldselling).
I don't think they should lighten up on the bans, but I do think they need to be A LOT more careful about who they are banning. If they keep banning people who aren't guilty, they are going to lose a lot of customers, and I'm sure that's not their intent.
The game is BTP. They ban people and they make money. Either people buy the game again or the company saves because they have fewer people in game.
Permabans in a BTP are a win-win for the company. I bet they carry aa big stick all the time, just because it makes them money.
It wouldnt of been any different if it was a subscription, you still have to buy a new account regardless. Anet did the right thing, nipping it in the bud and start out as you mean to go on.
Anet is not the first company to ban or suspend accounts for manipulating a broken feature. Those people knew exactly what they were doing, now we shall wait for all the whiners that get banned for botting soon.
It is very different. If you ban someone who is paying 15 bucks a month you lose 15 bucks a month. They lose nothing and can only gain. Not the same at all.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
It is very different. If you ban someone who is paying 15 bucks a month you lose 15 bucks a month. They lose nothing and can only gain. Not the same at all.
B2P like F2P relies on cash shop sales for revenue to some extent. I can't see banned players till buying gems somehow so Anet clearly does lose out by banning cheats - but the game at large gains.
Comments
Simple analogy, see if you can relate yeah?
Go to ATM, withdraw 20 bucks, get 200.
Option A, withdraw a shit ton of money.
Option B, go in and tell banking institute ATM is effered up.
What's the difference from this and the exploits being banned for?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Do that once and I'm not sure I'd call it exploiting. Now...repeat taking 20 bucks out of the machine, getting 200 each time in return until it's empty or your account runs out...then yeah. Sounds like what was happening was more of the latter.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
That's waht was happening though, they 72 hour banned anyone who kind of used it, IE bought 5-10 karma weapons for dirt cheap, but some people bought THOUSANDS of level 40 karma vendors, just to throw them in the mystic forge to try and make bigger better weapons.
that's what was being done, they kept taking 20 bucks out and snickered, then cry wolf when they got banned for it becuase "It's ANets fault", when obviously there is a right and a wrong.
Thats what a majority of the perma bans are being sent out for. Some 72 hours as well, for people who didn't buy thousands, but maybe a few, and also some 72 hour bans for vulgar language, and bad names. Obviously some of them just had to rename their toon, but for relaly bad names, like racist, sexist and what not, they are getting 72 hour bad with 1 time warning (ban is the warning).
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I'm glad I can help with that. If you continue to be bored after our friendly little conversation, might I suggest buying GW2 for some fantastic entertainment. I would like to caution you though, if you are caught cheating, it is very likely you will be perma-banned.
I'm happy they responded quickly and swiftly.. I just feel a permaban for a B2P game is a little harsh... extended ban time makes more sense to me... instead of forcing players to buy the game again. It seems almost beneficial to permaban as eventually those players will likely buy the game again anyways.
Either way it doesn't affect me, I'm not planning on exploiting anything..
I choose to not believe you.
What server are you on and what is your character and guild names?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
NOTE:The following is from someone who has NOT BEEN BANNED nor apprciates excessive trolling in chat.
I think A-net is being incredibly douchey with the way they are handling bans, 72 hours for saying things like faggot or fuck in chat is mind boggling to me. With that said I do have to admit it is refreshing to not see chat flooded with trolling that makes it impossible to ask any sort of question to the community (cough) tera....
Name changes have also been very questionable from what I have read, I mean there have been alot of boardline bans where A-net is being overly sensitive.
My take on the whole thing is this, A-Net should have at least given some kind of BIG WARNING before the game went live as to the way they are handling this whole banning people nonsense. Players are not use to this kind of "Big Brother" patrolling nor has anyone ever expieranced this kind of moderating in a MMO before. Be decent to your customers and at least post something on your facebook as what to expect when the game goes live.
I have a theory though, 2 actually.
Theory 1 : Its no secret A-Net has developed one hell of a game, Tons of people involved with this project have put their heart and soul into the game for 5 LONG YEARS. Its their BABY, I think that whole team views this as more than a game and they seriously take offense to anyone who want to take a BIG STEAMY dump on their CHILD.
Theory 2 : Maybe A-net did not realize what a special game they actually created and the sales along with the overwhelming support made them realize they dropped the ball on this whole F2P Model. Lets be honest here , GW2 is the best MMO to come along since vanilla WOW. This is a game that should be subscrition based not F2P. I think when A-Net ran the numbers they realized alot of potential money is being lost. So how do they remedy this ? PERMA Bans my friends. This game is good & addicitive enough where perma banned players WOULD actually go out and buy another copy.....
Aloha Mr Hand !
lol
It's called ninja'ing
My first one too!
I actually read your entire post, and it's spot on to how I feel too. I don't care if it's ANets fault, what's the MORAL thing to do?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
This is funny.
The game is BTP. They ban people and they make money. Either people buy the game again or the company saves because they have fewer people in game.
Permabans in a BTP are a win-win for the company. I bet they carry aa big stick all the time, just because it makes them money.
--John Ruskin
It wouldnt of been any different if it was a subscription, you still have to buy a new account regardless. Anet did the right thing, nipping it in the bud and start out as you mean to go on.
Anet is not the first company to ban or suspend accounts for manipulating a broken feature. Those people knew exactly what they were doing, now we shall wait for all the whiners that get banned for botting soon.
Classic response by anet...
"Please note this part of the statement above: "Thus, just this once, we will offer to convert permanent bans to 72-hour suspensions. Should those involved want to accept this offer of reinstatement, contact us on our support website--support.guildwars2.com—and submit a ticket through the "Ask a Question" tab. Please use the subject heading of "Karma Weapons Exploit Appeal", then confirm in the body of your ticket that you will delete any items/currency that you gained from the exploit. You should submit only one ticket. Once you have done so, we will lower your ban to 72 hours..."
This means you need to get in touch, agree to the terms, and when that is processed, your ban will be converted to 72 hours. It absolutely does not mean that you will submit a ticket and immediately be reinstated."
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I'm glad they are being proactive about it, but they are making rather broad strokes with their bans. I know a number of people that were banned for things they didn't do (i.e. exploting / goldselling).
I don't think they should lighten up on the bans, but I do think they need to be A LOT more careful about who they are banning. If they keep banning people who aren't guilty, they are going to lose a lot of customers, and I'm sure that's not their intent.
It is very different. If you ban someone who is paying 15 bucks a month you lose 15 bucks a month. They lose nothing and can only gain. Not the same at all.
--John Ruskin
B2P like F2P relies on cash shop sales for revenue to some extent. I can't see banned players till buying gems somehow so Anet clearly does lose out by banning cheats - but the game at large gains.