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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?
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I can't tell you how many times, in Lineage 2, I would hear people bashing people of other religions, racial groups, or sexual orientation. Not in my guild but in party chat, and at the end in one alliance.
And it didn't always manifest itself as a tirade of an attack. Sometimes just calling some one a "faggot" or making innapropriate jokes using one group as a scape goat.
At some point that just got tiring. And I wasn't even a part of slandered group.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If people would act like adults and not children that feel that can says or do whatever they want in an MMO, themed guilds wouldn't be necessary. I mean seriously, do you really have to talk like a sailor in order to relax in a game? Is it really necessary to talk about your junk or some other potentially offending part of your anatomy, or some other potentially offending topic?
This is an MMO. We don't need to know about who you slept with last night, what your poo smells like, or your opinions of whatever topic you decide to speak about. If it's important, take it to tells or make a chat channel. We don't want to hear about Chuck Norris or your stupid Murlock.
To that end, I understand why like-minded individuals would choose to avoid the general MMO populace. Personally, I wouldn't join a themed guild (unless it was roleplaying, then I might consider it), however I'm also not the type of person they would avoid. I would like to avoid most of the gamers now-a-days, but I really hate soloing, so I deal with it
I blame Blizzard. They made a game that is so accessible, that people who you'd rather smack their mother for giving birth to them are playing this game.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Exactly why people gravitate to these "defined groups". The LGBT community hates the terms, "gay" and "faggot" (in my experience). This is the primary difference between the LGBT guilds, and say a HC Raiding guild. In one's VOIP you will hear these terms in one you wont. The same goes with the "Churchies". Except they have different terms. Let alone the open attacks you find.
We live in a society that is VERY unaccepting. It is something we struggle with as humans. The problem is too often the "tolerance" that is taught is one sided. Since to be truly tolerant, one would have to "turn the other cheek", to turn a phrase. Yet all these groups, almost always "hate" the opposing group.
Me, I am a Libertarian. As long as you don't harm me or my family, feel free to do what ya like.
I actually like having groups label themselves. It saves me from having to "find out the hard way", we have irreconcilable differences. Kind of like how I like racist jokes, since the let me know who is racist, so I can avoid them.
+1 exactly.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's inncredibly saddening and maddening to see topics like this in a place like this. What amazes me most about every generation after generation X is the total lack of human experience you are either robbed of or just don't get while your young.
A guild is a totally abstract human idea. A guild has no contraints, it can be w/e it wants to be an you can't say a fucking thing because it's just an idea. A guild can be as elitiest as it wants and the only real thing that matters is if the idea exists or it doesn't.
A guild could be nurders only and your opinion still wouldn't matter.
Why don't all you kiddies get your skill up so we can play some good games again, instead of making idiotic posts like this.
Your entire generation is bad for gaming GO AWAY!
p.s. that includes the tools at massively
I think they mean 'gay' as in a derogatory slur like people enjoy throwing around lately. 'That's so gay' etc. Just another way to marginalise gay people, and the mindless sheep have all picked it up and somehow think its not offensive in that context.
I totally agree also.
However, the truth is that it's the internet, where we can be anonymous, and the ease with which it is to troll, bait, insult and be cruel without consequences is frighteningly real.
Exactly.
The word "gay" is often used in a derogatory way liked "This boss was so gay" which is just negative all around and has nothing to do with the color palette used on the boss. Consider it like the "N word", which when used by non-black folks usually means something negative, whereas some black folks usually use it amongst themselves without any issue.
So it's not so much that they hate the word, but that they hate it when it's used by other people who are not part of the LGBT community. And before someone quotes me and assume that I mean that LGBT players want to censor everybody else, it simply has to do with stopping people from using a word describing a sexual orientation in a negative and hurtful way (because there's nothing wrong with being gay).
Respecting one group of individuals but demeaning another through passive aggressiveness is not a good way to live your life. I can honestly tell you that if some religious person came up to you and started proselytizing then you told them politely I wasn't interested they would leave you alone. The nature of certain faiths is to spread their religions but if you never tell the person straight up I am not interested then their mind believes its ok to continue.
Then again I am a person of the Christian faith and I have no problem with others, its called live and let live. I've had great guildies who were gay and it didn't bother me, I didn't talk to them about repenting and they didn't discuss their proclivities In the bedroom.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
But again we stumble on to a question of greater importance.
"Why can a group use a slur itself, when decrying any other use of it as a derogatory slur?"
If a term is a slur, it is a slur, and shouldn't be used. it is no wonder that youth, without years of experience, fails to grasp the intricacies of language?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Except for certain groups which return to your doorstep to ring your bell again and again and again.
You probably know who I'm talking about without a name, in fact, because they're so famous (apparently Nationally) for doing it.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That would be great. The game companies would also have to be as stringent with the ban hammer as well.
You can't allow one and not another, that is discrimination.
I think these guilds form to keep "out of the mainstream". Let them be and be glad they aren't in "your" guild.
People aren't so much bringing their sexual orientation into games as they are creating games where they don't have to worry about bigots and intolerant folks in chat all day long. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "sexual desires". We just want to be in a guild where we won't be hearing "gay" "faggot" etc pretty much everywhere, and instead we'd prefer to join guilds where we can say "Going out with my husband, see you guys later!" without having to worry about people reacting like "OMG you're gay? Stop flaunting your sexuality!"
Kids have nothing to do with it either. They are as exposed to "sexual desires" in LGBT guilds as they are in non-LGBT guilds, in other words, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. If people want to talk about sex in guild chat, they will if it's allowed regardless of their sexual orientation. The only reason why you would bring up "sexual desires" (and sexual orientation has nothing to do with sexual desire) is because you have an issue with it or you have some serious misconception about LGBT folks in general. In fact, this is a perfect example of why people create LGBT-friendly guilds, so they don't have to deal with people who have those misconceptions or are not accepting.
Carefull with censorship. There may come a day when they come to censor you. I support free speech, even that which I find is distaste. I can always go away, log out, ignore, yadda yadda. Censorship is a VERY dangerous tool, used by despots.
Because at it's core the word "gay" is not a slur, but a word to describe a sexual orientation. That word itself also meant something else in the past (Happy). The word is being used as a slur because there is still a negative perception of homosexuality in society, so "gay" is used derogatorily to describe whatever people want to portray as bad.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'll agree that no group should be proselytizing in a video game but I don't believe they all do that.
I've never had it happen to me but some probably do, just like in real life. I had a friend who was a jehovah's witness who never talked to me about his religion. I then asked as I was curious and he told me a few things and only then asked if I was interested in knowing "more". I told him I wasn't interested in religion but was just curious, he acknowledged that and that was the end of it.
Yet I know full well there are jehovia's witnesses that do go out and try to spread the word. I think it's like anything in that "your mileage with people will vary".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The problem lies with who is doing the censoring, and what agenda they may be promoting. We already have restrictions in games and forums here against discriminatory or insulting behavior. A tool to further police this is in itself not dangerous, but who handles the tool could abuse it.
As the old saying goes "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I think they mean 'gay' as in a derogatory slur like people enjoy throwing around lately. 'That's so gay' etc. Just another way to marginalise gay people, and the mindless sheep have all picked it up and somehow think its not offensive in that context.
This is actually almost a topic in itself. Our kids picked up 'gay' as a general purpose derogatory term in high school. At the same time, they had several openly gay friends, who also used the term in the same manner. I don't really know what their gay friends thought of it, but it seems it's the context that determines whether it's offensive or not, at least in the harsh environment of high school. Being the older generation that we are, the wife and I put a stop to it, at least around the house and it seems to have fallen out of favor as a general purpose word, at least outside of school.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Exactly why governments should stay out of it. Let Twitter, Bizzard, MMORPG.com, police themselves. If an individual feels threatened there are avenues to remedy that situation.
I've never had it happen to me but some probably do, just like in real life. I had a friend who was a jehovah's witness who never talked to me about his religion. I then asked as I was curious and he told me a few things and only then asked if I was interested in knowing "more". I told him I wasn't interested in religion but was just curious, he acknowledged that and that was the end of it.
Yet I know full well there are jehovia's witnesses that do go out and try to spread the word. I think it's like anything in that "your mileage with people will vary".
I've never seen or even heard of religious guilds doing any sort of advertising at all until I read the article at Massively. I would honestly think that MMORPG would be the least likely environment for religious evangelism.
I was thinking this might have something to do with the dislike that gamers generally seem to share for advertising. It's on our websites, in our mobile games, but we don't want it in our games, whether it's advertising for cola or a particular religion. Gamers just aren't cool with that.
I for one, am not cool with that either. Don't advertise to me. I've had enough.
However, if people are looking for people who aren't going to insult them or insult other people using words that they find offensive, and guilds with a particular inclusive focus are the way to do it, more power to them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.