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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?
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I don't think that's forcing unless the person is homophobic. Personally, I just don't like segregation of any kind. Then again, I'm all for just taking flack for whatever I think. I think there's a sensitivity barrier that could be broken if people of different orientations just casually acted themselves while making friends and interacting with people of other orientations.
I don't see how LGBT guilds helps spread the cause of creating equality. To me it looks like people are running away from adversity instead of really confronting stigma. By confronting stigma, I don't mean having a pride rally. I mean, really just living life the way people live life, interacting with others in horribly unaccepting world and finding those relationships that test conventional norms. I wouldn't mind at all having a gay friend, or a lesbian friend. That's just how I am. Except I only have one person I know at all how is gay because I don't get many opportunities to meet them as social barriers tend to push people apart.
Yeah I'm an idealist when it comes to this, because I know there has been change, although it's been more militant as of late.
Actually, I have had the opposite experience, specifically in Mabinogi. Though, that was a long time ago. Don't play anymore. Also, I am transgender so it's a tad different I guess. I think I only ran into one person who really didn't agree with who I was, and essentially we just never spoke again. I also do not usually say anything regarding that I am transgender unless it is some how brought up or asked.
As for the people who disagree with me, I never really cared all that much anyway. I tend to respect their views as much as I possibly can. The only time I get offended is if they try and shove what they believe down my throat and do not let it go.
@the OP: if guilds abide by the game rules where is the problem in deciding whether they should be allowed?
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
Ha. It's easy to say for those who enjoy confrontations. Like, for example, me. I'm ready to confront stigma anywhere anyhow anywhen etc, and not just confront, but tear it a new one and use that new one for my own satisfaction.
But normal people want just have a nice gaming session without the possibility that their completely normal behavior will suddenly cause the stinking wave of stigma to fall on their heads. If it happens time after time, it can seriously damage person's enjoyment of life, self-image, etc. So what's that confrontation is worth, compared to that?
The largest part of militancy of change is support of the group. If you are not alone, if you are surrounded by those who are like you, it's much easier to challenge conventional norms and standards, to meet stigma and confrontation and not get depressed by it. That's where groups come in, in gaming and in real life. Whatever you think, a man is a social animal, with the exception of sociopaths like me.
any annual parade is "disruptive"
example: St.Patricks Day parade
EQ2 fan sites
Agreed but even as a liberal lefty I would question why it's not possible to have a University Department of "White Studies" if it is acceptable and non-racist to have a Department of Black Studies?
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
The "majority" gets about just as much flack as minorities. The pendulum swings both ways, so to speak. Personally, I don't like being the subject of people saying that I am an entitled asshat living with white privilege. It doesn't feel good being labeled just for existing. The same goes with other groups. Generalizations are the biggest social killers.
Minorities are just as guilty of "Racism and Bigotry" as majorities.
My philosophy is "A$$holes come in all colors"
"Live and let live"
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Lol that parade is always funny to me.
Yes any annual parade is disruptive, but the main point of it is that LGBT will make it a point to let you know they are LGBT even to the point of making a giant parade out of it. The whole 'disruptive' thing wasn't supposed to be focused in on xD
Riiiight ... however, I can sort of understand why the LGBT community ended up taking this stance. Not to long ago, being LGBT was highly looked at in a negative way (heck it still is today to some people), that it really caused a lot of grief in the community. I think the parade was a symbol to let others know that it is ok to be LGBT, and that is why it became a thing to come out on that day. Really it was just a stand for their own rights and to stop the hatred.
In all honesty, I really do not see a problem with it. If people accepted each other, it simply wouldn't exist. So really, whos fault is it?
I can understand why they did too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on the LGBT community by any stretch, I feel the same way about the black community as well.
The only reason I see a problem with it is because the fall out of this mentality adversly affects me and other people from openly coming out. Because at the end of the day, when a gay or lesbian person asks why straight people treat us differently, it's ultimately because on many levels a large portion of us actually ACT differently. The problem isn't with the parade, the parade is a byproduct of another issue
Can't disagree with you on that.
I'm not a minority type in any way but I am an asshole irl. I've learned that I'd rather be around people who get me than constantly be listening to some guild officer tell me what I said offended someone. I don't play games to fight for a cause or to teach people to be more tollerant. I play to kill shit. This is why I can understand people who want to go find a group of like minded people....no matter what it is and just be yourself. Always having to deal with peoples issues and constantly having to either hide who you are or act a different way isn't why you play a game.
There's a time and a place to stand up and fight these types of battles but games are about fun.
Yeah, the nerve of people co-opting words.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That actually resulted in a change to the "official lyrics" of an existing musical.
West Side Story--"I feel pretty and witty and gay." (not any more, you don't).
One of the most bizarrely excessive bludgeonings with political correctness, ever.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
No kidding
Razeekster should look up the definition of "dumb" and then maybe apologize to a part of society that isn't as fortunate in some aspects.
Pot meet Kettle
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
When at end of the Flintstones theme song, they sang "We'll have a gay ole time" I believe they were not singing about sexual orientation.
Funny how society will take a word and twist it into a new one.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Agreed....But you'd also have to let the Ku Klux Klan and the Neo Nazi's form their own themed guilds. As a previous poster suggested, perhaps its best to just leave the social issues at the door, so to speak, and just play the game.
This is a slippery slope. Of course, I am an American who believed in freedom....TRUE freedom...meaning that ALL groups have a right to express their views, not matter how much it might piss me off. I just don't want them doing it in a video game that I might be playing with my son.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Mabinogi is actually one of my favorite games because of this. I have been playing Mabinogi for about 4 years now. As immature as the community is in that game they are quite mature in that regard.
Smile
Well sure. So long as the other guilds didn't exclude members based on religion, or sexual orientation. I'm reasonably sure that a KKK guild or a Neo Nazi* guild wouldn't be capable of doing that. So no, you probably wouldn't have to allow a KKK or Neo Nazi guild. Not even to prove a point.
**
Keep in mind that MMORPG are private clubs, not public venues. Blizzard is under no obligation to allow LBGT guilds. They did it because their clientele wanted it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Excuse me? Last time I checked "gay" didn't mean dumb so I don't know how this is a case of "pot meet kettle." Gay originally meant joyous, happy, exuberant. I am not sure how it was turned into a word to represent a sexual orientation but no matter what it never meant "dumb." So don't tell me to apologize.
Smile
You probably would have understood had you looked up the definition of "dumb".
Have a great weekend, all!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
No kidding Razeekster should look up the definition of "dumb" and then maybe apologize to a part of society that isn't as fortunate in some aspects. Pot meet Kettle
Excuse me? Last time I checked "gay" didn't mean dumb so I don't know how this is a case of "pot meet kettle." Gay originally meant joyous, happy, exuberant. I am not sure how it was turned into a word to represent a sexual orientation but no matter what it never meant "dumb." So don't tell me to apologize.
This is kind of like the discussions on what the term "MMO" means. It didn't used to have a recognized meaning, now it does. It has a definition and everything. Words change meaning depending on how people use them. That's how it happens, people start using words in a different way, or start using new words, and other people pick them up and then that's what the words mean. There's a whole science devoted to how this happens in language and how long it takes for it to happen with specific words.
"Gay" happens to be a word that the younger among us have decided means, "lame" or "dumb". It's a general purpose term. Yes, it's dumb. No, it's not allowed in my house and I'm relieved that all our children have grown out of it, but that doesn't change the fact that in ten years it may be a common term meaning "lame" or "dumb".
I'm not sure what my point is here, other than words just change. Getting angry about it, even when the words are offensive, deliberately or not isn't really going to stop this from happening. Especially when the people changing the language have no idea what kind of history the words they use have.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
"Dumb:
Adjective: (of a person) Unable to speak, most typically because of congenital deafness.
Verb: Simplify or reduce the intellectual content of something so as to make it accessible to a larger number of people.
Synonyms: mute - speechless - silent - voiceless - inarticulate"
I fail to see how this is a case of "Pot meet kettle." I never insulted anyone. I simply said that "gay" does not mean "dumb." Which is 100% true. So again, I don't see why I would have to apologize.
Smile