Originally posted by AzurePrower Originally posted by StarS0ft Originally posted by AzureProwerPersonally I think Guild Wars 2 is dominated by pay to look good.Now I automatically know people's responses to this. "It's only cosmetic! etc. etc."So let me rephrase that. Guild Wars 2 is pay to not look like some one took a big dump all over your armor.Essentially in MMOs. One of the core end game elements is to make your avatar look good. With Guild Wars 2. The only way that is achievable is through the gem shop.So basically what it comes down to in the end.Guild Wars 2 /IS/ Pay to Win.Also instant credit card legendaries. I know one person on my server who has bought 5
1. So you mean that "new_skin_from_shop" = WIN in the game? OK, may be few ppl thinking as you. Will not argue.
2. I like to see that somebody purchased something in a shop. Why not. Here is NO monthly fee. But developers must earn money to create new stuff. Sometimes I also donate to support Anet if I like the content.
3. Many ppl also never use the shop, because it useles. It will not help to win in PvP or to obtain top place of your server in WWW. You can not even make jumping puzzle or beat Tequatl using cash shop :-) So it's not P2Win game at all.
1. When most of the in game non-gem shop skins are trash. Yes. Especially armors.
2. I really dislike "there is no monthly fees" as a free pass to gouge the players. The amount the store nickles and dimes you is by far more than what ever a subscription would be. If you chose to not spend money on the store out of principle like I do. You are at a disadvantage.
3. The many people who are not using the shop are directly affected by the economy and are at the mercy of the people who choose to pump gems to gold into it. SPVP is an exception as it is completely separate from the game economy. WVW how ever. Upgrades and superior siege are expensive in WVW. Those who convert gems to gold have no issues. Also why would you want to do jumping puzzles and Tequatl when the rewards suck?
You cannot deny though that gem buyers have an advantage over those who don't in this game.
1. That's your option. I don't like the armor skins in gem shop. I got my armors in game with my all 6 characters.
2.No you're not.
3. And again no... WvW isn't a small scale pvp. It is a massive large scale pvp. If you can't get a superior siege that time so let it be... Another player easily can get it for not himself for his server. So again what is the point here...
Originally posted by snow529 (Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
"Excessive" is a relative term. The people I knew who played the game didn't consider whatever was going on excessive.
There are much better reasons for not playing the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I do feel since the start of the game, they have steadily introduced more 'grind' less rewards to encourage players to buy gems/gold. Anet is essentially a gold seller here. I would say this is seen in DR, nerfing of Karma, events, and so forth, in general the game is much less rewarding then when it started. This is one of the reasons I often complain about how the game is run.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Personally, I think it's a combination of what you can get quicker.. how long it takes for non-payers and what they are actually doing to get it.
Even if you can pay to get it (whatever it is) straight away but the time it takes to get is reasonable, considering the cost to get it quicker, and is done through the same gameplay you'll be doing even when you have it (whatever it is)... then it is not a problem.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.
You also have to log in every day for laurels
You also have to do shitty guild content
You also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)
You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.
Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
To answer gold/gems. Yes the amount of gold you get for your purchased gems has increased, and continues to do so. It is about 6-7 times what it was on release. These rates are supposed to be set by market conditions (say there is more gold so the value goes down and value of gems goes up) but in all reality no one is able to monitor that and Anet could quite easily influence these values.
As to the issue about buying top end get for a couple silver, this is just not true. Ascended items do an additional 10% stats/damage and cost I think 200-300 gold a piece. You may argue that 10% is not substantial and for PVE that may be true but things like WVW it makes a large difference especially among large numbers of players. This will only get worse due to ascended armor being released in the near future. So to be fully outfitted with ascended weapons and armor/trinkets and so on, it will most likely cost you in the 1000's of gold in the near future, not taking into account alts. Cosmetics are not the only thing for GW2 they have been progressively adding a gear grind.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
And I think exactly this is what F2P probably should be. It is totally different from actual P2W (clearly you've never played a P2W game if you can't tell the difference). One guy has time and doesn't mind grinding a bit to get item A and maybe another guy has more money but less free time so it is worth it for him to just pay to skip the grind, as long as the grind isn't so huge that no one in their right mind would do it and in effect everyone has to pay, there is really nothing wrong with a system like that. There should be limits (I hate games which sell fully leveled up characters for example) but in theory it's a system that makes the vast majority happy.
That plus cosmetic outfits and other things that don't affect gameplay is what I think cash shops should offer. GW2 has a pretty good cash shop system. Some people just want games which are literally free for everything which is totally unrealistic.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.
You also have to log in every day for laurels
You also have to do shitty guild content
You also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)
You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.
Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
No, I just levelled my first character to 80 and bought a full set of exotic "cleric's" gear without spending any real money.
You, sir, are talking absolute rubbish. This is about the P2W aspect.. you can not pay for the other stuff you just mentioned.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.
You also have to log in every day for laurels
You also have to do shitty guild content
You also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)
You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.
Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
No, I just levelled my first character to 80 and bought a full set of exotic "cleric's" gear without spending any real money.
You, sir, are talking absolute rubbish. This is about the P2W aspect.. you can not pay for the other stuff you just mentioned.
So much for a few silver or a few copper, six pieces of clerics alone (and quite frankly, it is complete crap stats for every class) costs a minimum of 12g. Add the rings, trinkets, weapons and you're looking at 30g. However, exotic gear is NOT top stat, ASCENDED is.
You can farm all that gold or play the TP for hours, but not everyone has the talent and not everyone thinks it's normal or fun to work more in a videogame than in real life, so they can save hours by just converting Gems to Gold. ANet sells gold at the moment for 0.21$ per gold. Two hours of my time are worth much more than 21$ , which is 100g. It costs 21$ atm to get a commander tag. Hell I charge more than that per hour for contracts.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Originally posted by AzureProwerPersonally I think Guild Wars 2 is dominated by pay to look good.Now I automatically know people's responses to this. "It's only cosmetic! etc. etc."So let me rephrase that. Guild Wars 2 is pay to not look like some one took a big dump all over your armor.Essentially in MMOs. One of the core end game elements is to make your avatar look good. With Guild Wars 2. The only way that is achievable is through the gem shop.So basically what it comes down to in the end.Guild Wars 2 /IS/ Pay to Win.Also instant credit card legendaries. I know one person on my server who has bought 5
1. So you mean that "new_skin_from_shop" = WIN in the game? OK, may be few ppl thinking as you. Will not argue.
2. I like to see that somebody purchased something in a shop. Why not. Here is NO monthly fee. But developers must earn money to create new stuff. Sometimes I also donate to support Anet if I like the content.
3. Many ppl also never use the shop, because it useles. It will not help to win in PvP or to obtain top place of your server in WWW. You can not even make jumping puzzle or beat Tequatl using cash shop :-) So it's not P2Win game at all.
1. When most of the in game non-gem shop skins are trash. Yes. Especially armors.
2. I really dislike "there is no monthly fees" as a free pass to gouge the players. The amount the store nickles and dimes you is by far more than what ever a subscription would be. If you chose to not spend money on the store out of principle like I do. You are at a disadvantage.
3. The many people who are not using the shop are directly affected by the economy and are at the mercy of the people who choose to pump gems to gold into it. SPVP is an exception as it is completely separate from the game economy. WVW how ever. Upgrades and superior siege are expensive in WVW. Those who convert gems to gold have no issues. Also why would you want to do jumping puzzles and Tequatl when the rewards suck?
You cannot deny though that gem buyers have an advantage over those who don't in this game.
1. That's your option. I don't like the armor skins in gem shop. I got my armors in game with my all 6 characters.
2.No you're not.
3. And again no... WvW isn't a small scale pvp. It is a massive large scale pvp. If you can't get a superior siege that time so let it be... Another player easily can get it for not himself for his server. So again what is the point here...
1. Just his opinion. Most of ppl in my guild have armor from dungens and not from game-shop. Mhh. Let me think... Nobody has armor from shop :-) IMHO Armor from the shop basically means = "I am noob, I can't even cmplete a dungeon"
2. Just his opinion too. Most of ppl enjoy without monthly fee. Me personally enjoy too. But I will pay monthly fee if requred.
3. Shop not affect to WWW. Nothing to duscuss.
>Also why would you want to do jumping puzzles and Tequatl when the rewards suck?
Because this is fun! Also ascended drop sometimes.
Originally posted by snow529(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.) Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same. Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.You also have to log in every day for laurelsYou also have to do shitty guild contentYou also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
No, I just levelled my first character to 80 and bought a full set of exotic "cleric's" gear without spending any real money.
You, sir, are talking absolute rubbish. This is about the P2W aspect.. you can not pay for the other stuff you just mentioned.
OoooOooh! Exotic clerics gear. You must do so well in WvW and group PVE content.
That's okay. There are people who prefer to play subpar at a game. But hey. At least you're not paying real life money to do so!
I'm noticing a trend. The people who cannot see how much harm the gem sales is doing to the longevity of the game are either new players or barely play gw2.
One character to level 80? Try eight. Try getting a legendary. Try getting at least 5 ascended weapons. Try every aspect of guild wars 2 as I have. Then your posts may have some merit. At the moment it's just apparent you're still high on the new game smell.
Seems like even the term Pay to Win is now morphing from its original meaning to something that has nothing to do with its original meaning.
Pay to Win can not, in a million years, be applied to vanity items. You can grind your soul away for a vanity item if you are given the choise between paying and grinding, if you want.
If you want to convert real money to in game currency, you have the choise to do so. However the exchange rates are abysmal and no sane person, be lazy or not, would willingly pay gems just to convert them to gold.
Seems like even the term Pay to Win is now morphing from its original meaning to something that has nothing to do with its original meaning.
Pay to Win can not, in a million years, be applied to vanity items. You can grind your soul away for a vanity item if you are given the choise between paying and grinding, if you want.
If you want to convert real money to in game currency, you have the choise to do so. However the exchange rates are abysmal and no sane person, be lazy or not, would willingly pay gems just to convert them to gold.
Abyssimal? 1g = 21 cents. 0.21$.
Gold famers sell for 0.14$, 14 cents.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Originally posted by snow529(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.) Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same. Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.You also have to log in every day for laurelsYou also have to do shitty guild contentYou also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
No, I just levelled my first character to 80 and bought a full set of exotic "cleric's" gear without spending any real money.
You, sir, are talking absolute rubbish. This is about the P2W aspect.. you can not pay for the other stuff you just mentioned.
OoooOooh! Exotic clerics gear. You must do so well in WvW and group PVE content.
That's okay. There are people who prefer to play subpar at a game. But hey. At least you're not paying real life money to do so!
I don't have any glaring issues and I'm only just getting started. 10% stat increase difference isn't game breaking.. and that's only weapons (cos you can't buy the other ascended stuff with gold). The game's pretty easy as it is.
So that's it.. only weapons.. 165% increase vs 175% increase. Really P2W.. since I can still get the ascended weapons in game without much hassle... just by.. playing the game.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Lets do a little math here. Ascended weapons and armor add 10-20% more effectiveness (damage/protection/whatever). To get fully out fitted will net cost you approx 2k gold (possibly more). A average rate for farming would be say 5 gold an hour. That would take you approx 400 hrs per char to fully gear. At current gem/gold conversion rate it would cost approx $400 for that gear. So is your time worth $1 an hour?
You could argue that I can be having fun in that time so yeah, which is great, but many fun things in GW2 are not very rewarding gold wise and have been reduced with their reward substantially as time goes on. Every time a new way to make gold more quickly comes to light, it is fairly quickly nerfed.
But back to the OP, I would say the P2W aspect in GW2 (and many other F2P games) is largely about reducing time spent or cosmetics so you are right. One reason this bothers me personally is that GW2 is not a F2P game it is B2P and we already did pay and I feel pushing or punishing players into spending more is in poor taste. I wonder how much of Anets cash shop revenue comes from minis/cosmetics and how much from selling gold. I do feel them selling gold is a conflict of interest and benefits them financially for making longer farms/less rewarding game play.
Personally, I think all of it is excessive and is starting to remind me of some ftp gear grind game. I would rather be less geared then spend that amount of time farming. I also feel skill > gear. Either way this is a big shift from the Manifesto and why many argued Ascended should have never been added in the first place.
Lets do a little math here. Ascended weapons and armor add 10-20% more effectiveness (damage/protection/whatever). To get fully out fitted will net cost you approx 2k gold (possibly more). A average rate for farming would be say 5 gold an hour. That would take you approx 400 hrs per char to fully gear. At current gem/gold conversion rate it would cost approx $400 for that gear. So is your time worth $1 an hour?
You could argue that I can be having fun in that time so yeah, which is great, but many fun things in GW2 are not very rewarding gold wise and have been reduced with their reward substantially as time goes on. Every time a new way to make gold more quickly comes to light, it is fairly quickly nerfed.
But back to the OP, I would say the P2W aspect in GW2 (and many other F2P games) is largely about reducing time spent or cosmetics so you are right. One reason this bothers me personally is that GW2 is not a F2P game it is B2P and we already did pay and I feel pushing or punishing players into spending more is in poor taste. I wonder how much of Anets cash shop revenue comes from minis/cosmetics and how much from selling gold. I do feel them selling gold is a conflict of interest and benefits them financially for making longer farms/less rewarding game play.
Personally, I think all of it is excessive and is starting to remind me of some ftp gear grind game. I would rather be less geared then spend that amount of time farming. I also feel skill > gear. Either way this is a big shift from the Manifesto and why many argued Ascended should have never been added in the first place.
Do we even know if Ascended Armor can be bought or made with gold when it's added?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Lets do a little math here. Ascended weapons and armor add 10-20% more effectiveness (damage/protection/whatever). To get fully out fitted will net cost you approx 2k gold (possibly more). A average rate for farming would be say 5 gold an hour. That would take you approx 400 hrs per char to fully gear. At current gem/gold conversion rate it would cost approx $400 for that gear. So is your time worth $1 an hour?
You could argue that I can be having fun in that time so yeah, which is great, but many fun things in GW2 are not very rewarding gold wise and have been reduced with their reward substantially as time goes on. Every time a new way to make gold more quickly comes to light, it is fairly quickly nerfed.
But back to the OP, I would say the P2W aspect in GW2 (and many other F2P games) is largely about reducing time spent or cosmetics so you are right. One reason this bothers me personally is that GW2 is not a F2P game it is B2P and we already did pay and I feel pushing or punishing players into spending more is in poor taste. I wonder how much of Anets cash shop revenue comes from minis/cosmetics and how much from selling gold. I do feel them selling gold is a conflict of interest and benefits them financially for making longer farms/less rewarding game play.
Personally, I think all of it is excessive and is starting to remind me of some ftp gear grind game. I would rather be less geared then spend that amount of time farming. I also feel skill > gear. Either way this is a big shift from the Manifesto and why many argued Ascended should have never been added in the first place.
Do we even know if Ascended Armor can be bought with gold when it's added?
So far all they had said it will be crafted similar to Ascended weapons (they said trinkets/jewelry will be crafted as well sometime). Of course I do not know the exact specifics so there are assumptions that it would be similar effort. If they are account bound like the weapons it will just mean you have to purchase the crafting material instead the trading post instead of the specific items which ends up being more expensive in general due to having to level up your crafting first.
Guild Wars 2 is pay to not look like some one took a big dump all over your armor.
Essentially in MMOs. One of the core end game elements is to make your avatar look good. With Guild Wars 2. The only way that is achievable is through the gem shop.
Guild Wars 2 /IS/ Pay to Win.
i never used the cash shop and my only maxed toon looks awesome.
i quit playing after 3-4 months after launch, but still, your argument is subjective.
i don't think the cash shop armor looks better in compariosn to what you earn in-game. it is just different = cosmetic only.
Comments
2. I like to see that somebody purchased something in a shop. Why not. Here is NO monthly fee. But developers must earn money to create new stuff. Sometimes I also donate to support Anet if I like the content.
3. Many ppl also never use the shop, because it useles. It will not help to win in PvP or to obtain top place of your server in WWW. You can not even make jumping puzzle or beat Tequatl using cash shop :-) So it's not P2Win game at all.
1. When most of the in game non-gem shop skins are trash. Yes. Especially armors.
2. I really dislike "there is no monthly fees" as a free pass to gouge the players. The amount the store nickles and dimes you is by far more than what ever a subscription would be. If you chose to not spend money on the store out of principle like I do. You are at a disadvantage.
3. The many people who are not using the shop are directly affected by the economy and are at the mercy of the people who choose to pump gems to gold into it. SPVP is an exception as it is completely separate from the game economy.
WVW how ever. Upgrades and superior siege are expensive in WVW. Those who convert gems to gold have no issues.
Also why would you want to do jumping puzzles and Tequatl when the rewards suck?
You cannot deny though that gem buyers have an advantage over those who don't in this game.
1. That's your option. I don't like the armor skins in gem shop. I got my armors in game with my all 6 characters.
2.No you're not.
3. And again no... WvW isn't a small scale pvp. It is a massive large scale pvp. If you can't get a superior siege that time so let it be... Another player easily can get it for not himself for his server. So again what is the point here...
"Excessive" is a relative term. The people I knew who played the game didn't consider whatever was going on excessive.
There are much better reasons for not playing the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I do feel since the start of the game, they have steadily introduced more 'grind' less rewards to encourage players to buy gems/gold. Anet is essentially a gold seller here. I would say this is seen in DR, nerfing of Karma, events, and so forth, in general the game is much less rewarding then when it started. This is one of the reasons I often complain about how the game is run.
In regards to the new Agony infusions there is a funny thread on the official forums: https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/livingworld/fractured/Fun-Facts-about-new-agony-infusions
Now tell me that is not grind.
If a company wants to make money and promote a healthy player base. Subscription model is the way.
Rather than who can pump more real life cash into the game company's pockets to get an edge.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Personally, I think it's a combination of what you can get quicker.. how long it takes for non-payers and what they are actually doing to get it.
Even if you can pay to get it (whatever it is) straight away but the time it takes to get is reasonable, considering the cost to get it quicker, and is done through the same gameplay you'll be doing even when you have it (whatever it is)... then it is not a problem.
The most important question, I agree djazzy. What do you win?
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
That's a lie.
You also have to log in every day for laurels
You also have to do shitty guild content
You also have to farm a ton of karma or spend 35-50g for exotic (useful gear costs that much)
You will soon have to go through the whole leveling crafting to 500 for ascended gear crap again.
Did you quit during the first month to be so oblivious to the pile of trash it turned into over the last year?
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
To answer gold/gems. Yes the amount of gold you get for your purchased gems has increased, and continues to do so. It is about 6-7 times what it was on release. These rates are supposed to be set by market conditions (say there is more gold so the value goes down and value of gems goes up) but in all reality no one is able to monitor that and Anet could quite easily influence these values.
As to the issue about buying top end get for a couple silver, this is just not true. Ascended items do an additional 10% stats/damage and cost I think 200-300 gold a piece. You may argue that 10% is not substantial and for PVE that may be true but things like WVW it makes a large difference especially among large numbers of players. This will only get worse due to ascended armor being released in the near future. So to be fully outfitted with ascended weapons and armor/trinkets and so on, it will most likely cost you in the 1000's of gold in the near future, not taking into account alts. Cosmetics are not the only thing for GW2 they have been progressively adding a gear grind.
And I think exactly this is what F2P probably should be. It is totally different from actual P2W (clearly you've never played a P2W game if you can't tell the difference). One guy has time and doesn't mind grinding a bit to get item A and maybe another guy has more money but less free time so it is worth it for him to just pay to skip the grind, as long as the grind isn't so huge that no one in their right mind would do it and in effect everyone has to pay, there is really nothing wrong with a system like that. There should be limits (I hate games which sell fully leveled up characters for example) but in theory it's a system that makes the vast majority happy.
That plus cosmetic outfits and other things that don't affect gameplay is what I think cash shops should offer. GW2 has a pretty good cash shop system. Some people just want games which are literally free for everything which is totally unrealistic.
No, I just levelled my first character to 80 and bought a full set of exotic "cleric's" gear without spending any real money.
You, sir, are talking absolute rubbish. This is about the P2W aspect.. you can not pay for the other stuff you just mentioned.
So much for a few silver or a few copper, six pieces of clerics alone (and quite frankly, it is complete crap stats for every class) costs a minimum of 12g. Add the rings, trinkets, weapons and you're looking at 30g. However, exotic gear is NOT top stat, ASCENDED is.
You can farm all that gold or play the TP for hours, but not everyone has the talent and not everyone thinks it's normal or fun to work more in a videogame than in real life, so they can save hours by just converting Gems to Gold. ANet sells gold at the moment for 0.21$ per gold. Two hours of my time are worth much more than 21$ , which is 100g. It costs 21$ atm to get a commander tag. Hell I charge more than that per hour for contracts.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
1. Just his opinion. Most of ppl in my guild have armor from dungens and not from game-shop. Mhh. Let me think... Nobody has armor from shop :-) IMHO Armor from the shop basically means = "I am noob, I can't even cmplete a dungeon"
2. Just his opinion too. Most of ppl enjoy without monthly fee. Me personally enjoy too. But I will pay monthly fee if requred.
3. Shop not affect to WWW. Nothing to duscuss.
>Also why would you want to do jumping puzzles and Tequatl when the rewards suck?
Because this is fun! Also ascended drop sometimes.
OoooOooh! Exotic clerics gear. You must do so well in WvW and group PVE content.
That's okay. There are people who prefer to play subpar at a game. But hey. At least you're not paying real life money to do so!
I'm noticing a trend. The people who cannot see how much harm the gem sales is doing to the longevity of the game are either new players or barely play gw2.
One character to level 80? Try eight. Try getting a legendary. Try getting at least 5 ascended weapons. Try every aspect of guild wars 2 as I have. Then your posts may have some merit. At the moment it's just apparent you're still high on the new game smell.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
Seems like even the term Pay to Win is now morphing from its original meaning to something that has nothing to do with its original meaning.
Pay to Win can not, in a million years, be applied to vanity items. You can grind your soul away for a vanity item if you are given the choise between paying and grinding, if you want.
If you want to convert real money to in game currency, you have the choise to do so. However the exchange rates are abysmal and no sane person, be lazy or not, would willingly pay gems just to convert them to gold.
Abyssimal? 1g = 21 cents. 0.21$.
Gold famers sell for 0.14$, 14 cents.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
I don't have any glaring issues and I'm only just getting started. 10% stat increase difference isn't game breaking.. and that's only weapons (cos you can't buy the other ascended stuff with gold). The game's pretty easy as it is.
So that's it.. only weapons.. 165% increase vs 175% increase. Really P2W.. since I can still get the ascended weapons in game without much hassle... just by.. playing the game.
Lets do a little math here. Ascended weapons and armor add 10-20% more effectiveness (damage/protection/whatever). To get fully out fitted will net cost you approx 2k gold (possibly more). A average rate for farming would be say 5 gold an hour. That would take you approx 400 hrs per char to fully gear. At current gem/gold conversion rate it would cost approx $400 for that gear. So is your time worth $1 an hour?
You could argue that I can be having fun in that time so yeah, which is great, but many fun things in GW2 are not very rewarding gold wise and have been reduced with their reward substantially as time goes on. Every time a new way to make gold more quickly comes to light, it is fairly quickly nerfed.
But back to the OP, I would say the P2W aspect in GW2 (and many other F2P games) is largely about reducing time spent or cosmetics so you are right. One reason this bothers me personally is that GW2 is not a F2P game it is B2P and we already did pay and I feel pushing or punishing players into spending more is in poor taste. I wonder how much of Anets cash shop revenue comes from minis/cosmetics and how much from selling gold. I do feel them selling gold is a conflict of interest and benefits them financially for making longer farms/less rewarding game play.
Personally, I think all of it is excessive and is starting to remind me of some ftp gear grind game. I would rather be less geared then spend that amount of time farming. I also feel skill > gear. Either way this is a big shift from the Manifesto and why many argued Ascended should have never been added in the first place.
Do we even know if Ascended Armor can be bought or made with gold when it's added?
So far all they had said it will be crafted similar to Ascended weapons (they said trinkets/jewelry will be crafted as well sometime). Of course I do not know the exact specifics so there are assumptions that it would be similar effort. If they are account bound like the weapons it will just mean you have to purchase the crafting material instead the trading post instead of the specific items which ends up being more expensive in general due to having to level up your crafting first.
i never used the cash shop and my only maxed toon looks awesome.
i quit playing after 3-4 months after launch, but still, your argument is subjective.
i don't think the cash shop armor looks better in compariosn to what you earn in-game. it is just different = cosmetic only.
no armor that i saw resembled fecal matter.
nice trolling though (not really)