Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Originally posted by FoomerangHehe its not really fair to compare Ubisoft to other game devs. Maybe Rockstar and possibly Naughty Dog, but those are elite game developers.
Im glad they are finally stepping into the mmo scene with The Division and Destiny.
Amen to that.... By now most old vet mmo players are hungry for change.....
Nothing to no change even GW2 and EQN are more of the same. Sure, changed some aspects, but the gameplay is lacking as far as i can tell.
The Devision and Desteny are shooting mmo's, but at least the world they created looks epic and engaging. Dangerous and intimidating.
It seems as if developers are affraid to radicaly change mmo's. Thats why i think Desteny and The devision will be insanly popular by mmo players who cannot see another copy pasted themepark mmo with same old same old mistakes and crap we have seen so much off past decade.
Its unfair to compare the 2 "mmo's" but for me its getting ridiculously boring to play any mmo atm Eve Online and SC are top dog together with Desteny/The Devision
Hope we get to play a sandbox in a fantasy settings with Eve Online sov mechanics. With brutal animations and immersive gameplay.
MMOs often choose the high aesthetics and lower graphics now so they can save money and developement costs for a higher profit, on top of that they are free to play meaning they want everyone with an old outdated legacy pc to run their game.
For free to play, the more people the better, as most won't be paying a dime. Their belief is to get everyone in and hooked, so they buy a lot of shop goodies before they quit and leave for the next "best mmo of the month or year".
Alas, we can't have graphics, because that reduces the people able to play and thus pay for mmos, and companies want more profit, and never less customers/profit.
MMOs often choose the high aesthetics and lower graphics now so they can save money and developement costs for a higher profit, on top of that they are free to play meaning they want everyone with an old outdated legacy pc to run their game.
For free to play, the more people the better, as most won't be paying a dime. Their belief is to get everyone in and hooked, so they buy a lot of shop goodies before they quit and leave for the next "best mmo of the month or year".
Alas, we can't have graphics, because that reduces the people able to play and thus pay for mmos, and companies want more profit, and never less customers/profit.
That would be true if games only had one possible graphics setting... But it's not because a 'ultra high' setting exist that you aren't allowed to play on medium.
MMOs often choose the high aesthetics and lower graphics now so they can save money and developement costs for a higher profit, on top of that they are free to play meaning they want everyone with an old outdated legacy pc to run their game.
For free to play, the more people the better, as most won't be paying a dime. Their belief is to get everyone in and hooked, so they buy a lot of shop goodies before they quit and leave for the next "best mmo of the month or year".
Alas, we can't have graphics, because that reduces the people able to play and thus pay for mmos, and companies want more profit, and never less customers/profit.
That would be true if games only had one possible graphics setting... But it's not because a 'ultra high' setting exist that you aren't allowed to play on medium.
To add to what mysticluna is saying, you also need to consider that one of the most important parts of a successful MMO is regular content releases, and producing an MMO with Cry-engine 500k polygon character and mob models, full voice overs, motion-captured cutscenes up to the standard of a first person shooter or singleplayer rpg (like the Witcher 2), would be suicide next to competition that requires far less effort.
There's loads of examples of this (Age of conan for example, where the devs obviously bit off more that they could chew) and there's a reason why First person shooters are completed in 6hours or less.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Seven years and 3,000 posts into these forums, and the difference between SP and MMO is still a mystery to you?
This
that.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Originally posted by tom_gore Divison and Destiny are not MMOs.
Didn't you know? any game that has an online mode or ever had an online mode are considered mmo these days? some older games with online mode even now call themselves "1st mmo". we will see these kind of comparison a lot. we just have to deal with it, no point providing constructive argument or logic in these kind of posts.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Mobs and npc that travel around the world or only appear at certain times is not new. Plants that can only be found at certain time in the seasons is not new. Animal that travel around in heards and migrate following the seasons is not new.
Check out Ryzom AI system.
In fact the AI you claim to be new is not new.
I'm an EQ vet but don't let the buzz words and hype cloud you, these things are not new.
The AI system in EQN is a little more advanced than the system Ryzom used. It was mostly based on migration and migration alone. The storybrick AI is programmed differently to have a series of wants and needs, they also remember the player based on interactions with them. I don't remember Ryzom having systems like that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I actually don't understand the strict preferences people have. I don't think I'd PREFER the art style of EQN, but it doesn't particularly bother me. If the game is good, it'll probably alter your opinion on that particular art style for years to come. Keep in mind that your opinion on aesthetic things like art style come from something making an impression on you in the past.
Originally posted by Holophonist I actually don't understand the strict preferences people have. I don't think I'd PREFER the art style of EQN, but it doesn't particularly bother me. If the game is good, it'll probably alter your opinion on that particular art style for years to come. Keep in mind that your opinion on aesthetic things like art style come from something making an impression on you in the past.
I think people are tired of being treated like little children with regard to every aspect of modern MMO's. Easy, pointless and mind-numbing play with no socialization. Cartoon kiddie graphics/aesthetics (whatever you want to call the visuals) are just another facet of this coddling mentality that publishers think is necessary in order to make WoW money. Nevermind that it hasn't worked since WoW. Not ever. They don't realize that though, because these guys are like the fat, greedy person at dinner who only wants the biggest plate of food regardless of how sick it may get them and despite the warnings of others.
The graphics/visual style are an indication of gameplay as well. Whenever I've seen a publisher go down this route of kiddie-graphics the game always ends up being a boring-as-shit mindless solo game with no challenge or adult content. This isn't so much people against the aesthetic style in itself as it is just people having 10 years of seeing the end result of this pattern. We've learned what to expect when we see the anime/cartoon shit. And we don't like it.
Originally posted by zevni78 EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.
Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
Not sure what you're talking about here. The character graphics are not going to change - they've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
In other words, they want people to play this game on their 10 year old crusty laptops because it means they'll get 1 more possible cash-shop customer that they wouldn't have otherwise. Integrity of the game be damned. And never-mind if they're shooting themselves in the foot because people are tired of this cartoon shit.
The graphics/visual style are an indication of gameplay as well. Whenever I've seen a publisher go down this route of kiddie-graphics the game always ends up being a boring-as-shit mindless solo game with no challenge or adult content. This isn't so much people against the aesthetic style in itself as it is just people having 10 years of seeing the end result of this pattern. We've learned what to expect when we see the anime/cartoon shit. And we don't like it.
tell me, what is "adult content"? CyberSex? Is that the reason you want realistic graphics so you can watch boobies bounce?
And more then enough realistic looking games are easier then stylizied ones.
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Especially if your going to have parkouring and environmental interactions in your game.
how often I say that SOE is the burial site of MMO's, I got to take on your statement.
You show AC, but would that singpleplayer game run smooth with those graphics if it was a MMO with like.....500 players in that village polluting the channels and running around all over the place?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The graphics/visual style are an indication of gameplay as well. Whenever I've seen a publisher go down this route of kiddie-graphics the game always ends up being a boring-as-shit mindless solo game with no challenge or adult content. This isn't so much people against the aesthetic style in itself as it is just people having 10 years of seeing the end result of this pattern. We've learned what to expect when we see the anime/cartoon shit. And we don't like it.
tell me, what is "adult content"? CyberSex? Is that the reason you want realistic graphics so you can watch boobies bounce?
And more then enough realistic looking games are easier then stylizied ones.
I'd rather watch boobies bounce than pony's shitting rainbows and purple dinosaurs dancing around a campfire singing songs for 3 year old's, yes.
That's not to say that realistic graphics/aesthetics = a challenging game, either. I never stated that. Rather, I stated that every single game that has used stylized and kiddie graphics has been a failure, since WoW. And not challenging. And WoW was the ultimate blowjob to casuals after it's first iteration, as well. At least those games that attempt realistic graphic styles get credit for attempting immersion. I definitely give credit for MMO's that try to immerse their players in the world rather than cash-shop-cartoon-bitch-slap the fuck out of us to the point where it turns into a nintendo game.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
I hate the graphics of EQNext but OP you're dreaming if you think you'll see graphics as high quality as Black Flag in an mmo. UNLESS it's a console exclusive - because they would lose too much PC market from people who didn't have rigs high enough quality to play it and just wouldn't buy. Personally I think Black Desert and ESO are setting the examples of mmo graphics, and hell even AoC.
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
SO your issue is with the character models? why inflate this by comparing the entire games?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
Yeah you have a point. Because Angry Birds was successful, we should make every game just like it! In fact, we have so much penis envy for Angry Birds that we should make it a "rule of the industry" to copy the aesthetics of Angry Birds to every fucking game ever again forever. Angry birds clearly proves that realistic graphics are dead.
Your comment made me think of Wasteland 2's kickstarter video where they humiliate moronic publishers and their sheep customers. Angry Birds is the star of the show, too. What a coincidence? lol
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
Yeah you have a point. Because Angry Birds was successful, we should make every game just like it! In fact, we have so much penis envy for Angry Birds that we should make it a "rule of the industry" to copy the aesthetics of Angry Birds to every fucking game ever again forever.
Your comment made me think of Wasteland 2's kickstarter video where they humiliate moronic publishers and their sheep customers. Angry Birds is the star of the show, too. What a coincidence? lol
Comments
Amen to that....
By now most old vet mmo players are hungry for change.....
UO
EQ
WoW
GW
DoaC
Rift
Aion
Warhammer
SWTOR
Etc Etc Etc
Its all so similar....
Nothing to no change even GW2 and EQN are more of the same.
Sure, changed some aspects, but the gameplay is lacking as far as i can tell.
The Devision and Desteny are shooting mmo's, but at least the world they created looks epic and engaging.
Dangerous and intimidating.
It seems as if developers are affraid to radicaly change mmo's.
Thats why i think Desteny and The devision will be insanly popular by mmo players who cannot see another copy pasted themepark mmo with same old same old mistakes and crap we have seen so much off past decade.
Its unfair to compare the 2 "mmo's" but for me its getting ridiculously boring to play any mmo atm
Eve Online and SC are top dog together with Desteny/The Devision
Hope we get to play a sandbox in a fantasy settings with Eve Online sov mechanics.
With brutal animations and immersive gameplay.
Aesthetics = important
Graphics = one of the least important things possible for me
That said, Im not in love with EQN's aesthetics
MMOs often choose the high aesthetics and lower graphics now so they can save money and developement costs for a higher profit, on top of that they are free to play meaning they want everyone with an old outdated legacy pc to run their game.
For free to play, the more people the better, as most won't be paying a dime. Their belief is to get everyone in and hooked, so they buy a lot of shop goodies before they quit and leave for the next "best mmo of the month or year".
Alas, we can't have graphics, because that reduces the people able to play and thus pay for mmos, and companies want more profit, and never less customers/profit.
That would be true if games only had one possible graphics setting...
But it's not because a 'ultra high' setting exist that you aren't allowed to play on medium.
To add to what mysticluna is saying, you also need to consider that one of the most important parts of a successful MMO is regular content releases, and producing an MMO with Cry-engine 500k polygon character and mob models, full voice overs, motion-captured cutscenes up to the standard of a first person shooter or singleplayer rpg (like the Witcher 2), would be suicide next to competition that requires far less effort.
There's loads of examples of this (Age of conan for example, where the devs obviously bit off more that they could chew) and there's a reason why First person shooters are completed in 6hours or less.
that.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Didn't you know? any game that has an online mode or ever had an online mode are considered mmo these days? some older games with online mode even now call themselves "1st mmo". we will see these kind of comparison a lot. we just have to deal with it, no point providing constructive argument or logic in these kind of posts.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
the thing is ... EQN looks better than that.
BAM! there you go! What a silly thread ...
The AI system in EQN is a little more advanced than the system Ryzom used. It was mostly based on migration and migration alone. The storybrick AI is programmed differently to have a series of wants and needs, they also remember the player based on interactions with them. I don't remember Ryzom having systems like that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
aes·thet·ic
adjective es-?the-tik, is-, British usually ?s--ti-k?l: of or relating to art or beauty
Graphics vs aesthetics.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oK8UTRgvJU
aes·thet·ic
adjective es-?the-tik, is-, British usually ?s-\-ti-k?l: of or relating to art or beauty
...lol
Graphics vs aesthetics.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oK8UTRgvJU
touche!
I think people are tired of being treated like little children with regard to every aspect of modern MMO's. Easy, pointless and mind-numbing play with no socialization. Cartoon kiddie graphics/aesthetics (whatever you want to call the visuals) are just another facet of this coddling mentality that publishers think is necessary in order to make WoW money. Nevermind that it hasn't worked since WoW. Not ever. They don't realize that though, because these guys are like the fat, greedy person at dinner who only wants the biggest plate of food regardless of how sick it may get them and despite the warnings of others.
The graphics/visual style are an indication of gameplay as well. Whenever I've seen a publisher go down this route of kiddie-graphics the game always ends up being a boring-as-shit mindless solo game with no challenge or adult content. This isn't so much people against the aesthetic style in itself as it is just people having 10 years of seeing the end result of this pattern. We've learned what to expect when we see the anime/cartoon shit. And we don't like it.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.Not sure what you're talking about here. The character graphics are not going to change - they've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
In other words, they want people to play this game on their 10 year old crusty laptops because it means they'll get 1 more possible cash-shop customer that they wouldn't have otherwise. Integrity of the game be damned. And never-mind if they're shooting themselves in the foot because people are tired of this cartoon shit.
tell me, what is "adult content"? CyberSex? Is that the reason you want realistic graphics so you can watch boobies bounce?
And more then enough realistic looking games are easier then stylizied ones.
how often I say that SOE is the burial site of MMO's, I got to take on your statement.
You show AC, but would that singpleplayer game run smooth with those graphics if it was a MMO with like.....500 players in that village polluting the channels and running around all over the place?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I'd rather watch boobies bounce than pony's shitting rainbows and purple dinosaurs dancing around a campfire singing songs for 3 year old's, yes.
That's not to say that realistic graphics/aesthetics = a challenging game, either. I never stated that. Rather, I stated that every single game that has used stylized and kiddie graphics has been a failure, since WoW. And not challenging. And WoW was the ultimate blowjob to casuals after it's first iteration, as well. At least those games that attempt realistic graphic styles get credit for attempting immersion. I definitely give credit for MMO's that try to immerse their players in the world rather than cash-shop-cartoon-bitch-slap the fuck out of us to the point where it turns into a nintendo game.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQethZBldHs (though if you can't handle sarcasm you probably shouldn't watch)
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
SO your issue is with the character models? why inflate this by comparing the entire games?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Yeah you have a point. Because Angry Birds was successful, we should make every game just like it! In fact, we have so much penis envy for Angry Birds that we should make it a "rule of the industry" to copy the aesthetics of Angry Birds to every fucking game ever again forever. Angry birds clearly proves that realistic graphics are dead.
Your comment made me think of Wasteland 2's kickstarter video where they humiliate moronic publishers and their sheep customers. Angry Birds is the star of the show, too. What a coincidence? lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FTLv50c8Qg
Enjoy the show.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
So you catch my sarcasm then?
Not every game needs to be exactly the same. There's room for all styles. It makes it much more interesting to be a consumer that way.