I think the issue really is that if you only have one giant server auction house (as there will be only one) having no fragmentation would destroy the market on anything but the tippy top best stuff. (see Gw2) Also it's my understanding that you won't always have to be in a guild to participate in these markets.
I'm in the crowd that is willing to give it a try. The vendomatic AH systems really does make life as a crafter substantially less interesting. Social interaction is a good thing for MMOs. Even more so for an MMO that is trying to set itself apart from the crowd.
Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.
You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.
This is exactly it, I plan on being in some market guilds but have no interest in being in some huge guild normally. So since you can join 5 guilds no reason I couldn't be in 4 market guilds and 1 tight knit guild like I like.
Will anyone think on their deathbed: "Oh I had such fun times trying to sell those items in ESO by spamming chat, forums and other specialised websites! I should have done this more during my life, while I was able to."?
No. Pretty much everyone is going to regret every minute they spent doing it. Every second.
And it compounds for every player. They should be ashamed of wasting people's lives away in trivial tasks.
Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.
"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."
You know. I have tested this system and in reality it's a huge time sink... Eventually it's just a shore to deal with.
Anarchy Online had this, with option to search the markets. Each organisation had a own market where players could get a terminal to sell wares. There was also the issue that spots for these markets were limited as was room in them. There was also considerable upkeep costs...
It adds some level of community buidling in game, but these markets might just end up sitting empty and people forced to travel there to buy...
In sense it would be more interesting to make marketplaces in cities where people could rent room. Either a few slots from someone else or entire stalls or shops for higher fee. And allow up setting buy-orders for materials and such. Some sort of system to allow tracking might be good too.
Originally posted by rygard49It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
Sad but true. In SWG the best crafters were legends.
yeah, some of the best times I ever had buying and selling were in lineage 2.
Not only were the "decent/honest" crafters/sellers known but you would actually get into negotiations for certain goods.
Heck, once I was selling shots in Gludio when two other players whispered me and wanted me to raise my prices with them as I was underselling them. I wouldn't because I felt my prices were high enough. They then tried to put up shop signs indicating I was a scammer and then proceeded to buy my stock so they could resell it higher (fine by me).
But I had a LOT of stock and they essentially purchased about half of what I had and couldn't afford any more. So there they sat on their expensive shots while I continued to sell mine.
It was truly a different "game" within the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by BeansnBread Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.)
Not exactly true, Ultima Online you used to stand around the bank in one of the major cities basically hawking your wares and not rely on big guilds or guilds at all, mesengers were not with the game then, votive chat wasn't used and everyone managed to craft etc and sell everything just fine.
If it proves to hard for some I'm sure they'll add something, maybe a bio you can write trade, items etc on or segregate (since people will moan if like SWG and UO) housing with a chest people can click on to see available items still have to contact owner tho.
Hopefully people will adjust to the older way of buying / selling ??
yeah, some of the best times I ever had buying and selling were in lineage 2.
Not only were the "decent/honest" crafters/sellers known but you would actually get into negotiations for certain goods.
Heck, once I was selling shots in Gludio when two other players whispered me and wanted me to raise my prices with them as I was underselling them. I wouldn't because I felt my prices were high enough. They then tried to put up shop signs indicating I was a scammer and then proceeded to buy my stock so they could resell it higher (fine by me).
But I had a LOT of stock and they essentially purchased about half of what I had and couldn't afford any more. So there they sat on their expensive shots while I continued to sell mine.
It was truly a different "game" within the game.
similar thing happened to me in Everquest circa 2002
i saw a player selling expensive player made "stat" jewelry, Ring of Valor
i undercut him by 80% and sold tons - but players would also buy from me and re-sell at higher prices
It's a grate system if you think about it. First in chat you can talk to people and get a lower prices because there will be no gambling because with such system gambling will take lot of time. Also it make it harder for bots to sell looted items. But best thing about it is that there wont be gambling people who will rule market prices like in Gw2 ....
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx Why does it sound like if i dont join a guild i wont be able to efficiently sell my wares if i decide to craft?
With everyone being able to craft anything they need, is there really a need for a Broker/AH system in the first place? There may be an argument for mats but will there be enough need/want to justify it and will it lead to a healthy economy? I know there are those that hate crafting, but this is an ES game and upgrading your equipment was a crucial part of those games, at least to me anyway.
Rare mats and equipment may support an economy with a Broker/AH but will there be enough supply, and if so, rare mats/equipment stop being rare.
Will anyone think on their deathbed: "Oh I had such fun times trying to sell those items in ESO by spamming chat, forums and other specialised websites! I should have done this more during my life, while I was able to."?
No. Pretty much everyone is going to regret every minute they spent doing it. Every second.
And it compounds for every player. They should be ashamed of wasting people's lives away in trivial tasks.
Playing a video game is not wasting one's time on trivial tasks?
Originally posted by BeansnBread Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.)
Not exactly true, Ultima Online you used to stand around the bank in one of the major cities basically hawking your wares and not rely on big guilds or guilds at all, mesengers were not with the game then, votive chat wasn't used and everyone managed to craft etc and sell everything just fine.
If it proves to hard for some I'm sure they'll add something, maybe a bio you can write trade, items etc on or segregate (since people will moan if like SWG and UO) housing with a chest people can click on to see available items still have to contact owner tho.
Hopefully people will adjust to the older way of buying / selling ??
So, I'm not really sure what you said that makes what I said untrue. Is it that you think their system will not alienate a certain segment of the population? I'll try to explain why I think it may alienate those few folks that prefer to be a sort of lone wolf in MMORPGs.
The megaserver makes using a trade chat channel or shouting in an area for hours to sell your stuff unwieldy. I think a lot of people today don't actually want to stand around for hours hawking their stuff anyway. It's just a different gaming culture than it was in 1997. In the end, people can of course do this, but people in guilds are going to have an incredible advantage at exposing their goods and prices to more people than the players that prefer to not be in a guild. That guilds have such a strong advantage in this area can be very frustrating to people that choose to do what you are describing - sending out shouts until someone bites.
ESO also doesn't have housing as far as I'm aware. And there are no player shops.
After all these years (and MMO's), I still think SWG had it right. A Bazaar terminal to make it easy for players to obtain / sell basic items and player shops for the higher end stuff.
Eliminating any form of global trade system is a step backwards IMO and will hurt the game if this is not addressed shortly after launch.
It's also funny how many posters seem to think that standing in Ogrimmar browsing the AH is bad, however it's somehow awesome in their minds to stand in a city spamming trade chat in hopes of finding a buyer or seller for a particular item.
Mark my words, ESO will have a global trade system and LFG tool within the first year.
This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.
"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.
You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.
Its just as it should be. If you want to be a lone wolf there are some drawbacks.
It is can work in an information age, or syfy games but if you think about it the trade in medieval times was decentralized.
New opportunities will arise from such setup as well, as the opportunity of buying cheep selling high will be possible, and social interaction will be necessary.
This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.
"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
You went to Brittania bank for example, you learnt after awhile who you would buy from, who made the sort of wares were upto your expectations and then also who would buy mats from you. So it didn't necessarily need you standing there for hours. That sort of thing happened once mmo's started to split up the community, last time I said about swtor community in game someone replied that the community is in the guilds, not outside lol
Now for an mmo that is a depressing statement from a player
Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.
You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.
You basically hit all nails on the head and seems really odd the developer did not see any of the problems.
One ok IF argument is correct and they are trying for interaction,they are eliminating what the other person said that "celebrity" or that known player in your guild because having to hop around 5 different guilds has more negatives than positives.
I for one do not like players hopping guild to guild,i want to see that loyalty otherwise why have guilds at all,why not just lump everyone into one giant guild if people feel the need for MORE.I want to get to know my guild mates,i don't want them only popping in for selfish reasons ,then they are gone to the next guild.
I think what happened here is somebody in Zeni over thought it and is NOT very good at coming up with good game design,in this case one designed to make for a great economy and pvp and interaction.
1 Whomever came up with this forgets SOME or MANY don't want any part of pvp.
2 Some or MANY don't want a big guild,they want that family oriented guild or one that is mall where people actually become friends and know each other.
3 I want a viable system to sell my wares,designing a game that goes a bit back in time "Fantasy" setting with swords and daggers and shield/s,hard to believe characters would be using a chat system to sell their stuff.yes the guild idea would be realistic but NOT limited to JUST the guild.
What this actually resembles is some sort of shotty barter system,where you might not even be selling but inside a guild what USUALLY happens ,is i scratch your back you scratch mine,hence barter system.
And you are forgetting that by making consensus there we ended up in a situation we have today in many mmos. Everything is similar everyone is using the same solutions and everyone cry`s about developers not making new solutions. Now that they do make some things different some people are not happy. Surprise surprise.
You cant make things that will please everyone. And you should not. Otherwise you will end up as wow did after so many years becoming a homogenized pop pup.
It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.
You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing
This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.
"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
It doesn't actually have to lead to that though. Look at how insanely expensive it is to buy mats to make legendaries in GW2. Their system is spread across every server. Every person that plays that game are looking at the exact same market. Look at games with a BoP system where people can't even sell any of the best gear.
There is also no guarantee that this system will stop prices from dropping to rock bottom. People are not going to suddenly stop competing to sell their goods because they make it more difficult to sell them. It is still dependent on supply and demand just like it always is.
Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds.
You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.
Its just as it should be. If you want to be a lone wolf there are some drawbacks.
It is can work in an information age, or syfy games but if you think about it the trade in medieval times was decentralized.
New opportunities will arise from such setup as well, as the opportunity of buying cheep selling high will be possible, and social interaction will be necessary.
I agree with you for the most part. There are drawbacks to selling things if you don't actually want to be in a guild - which is what the OP and people like him might be upset about.
I think it has potential but a lot depends on how PvP focused this is are the "trading posts" all going to be PvP captured ie keeps or will there be areas outside the PvP zone for traders to set up shop.
If you end up with market places where the different guilds set up shop so to speak its going to be interesting as they will be competing for customers in theory this could give a much more vibrant system than Ah could ever achieve.
How it works will depend on US the players will we set up huge trading guilds which in turn are self reliant and have their own dedicated harvesters who supply raw materials to the master crafters. Or will we have Crafting guilds and harvesting guilds the possibilities are endless.
But its down to us in the old days games like EQ had in my opinion great trading opportunities we the players dictated how trading worked we there were great bargains to be found and vast profits to be made haggling and bartering were frequent you could trade something for something else and it was often fun. The AH stopped that it stopped being interactive and became mechanical. like much else in modern MMORPG every server is now the same there is no individuality anymore everything conforms. In older mmorpgs the shape of a server was shaped by the players there the customs and practices were different depending what sever you were on. <stops rambling>
Do you seriously need an explaination why a game doesn't have a feature that you want? Well the only thing I can tell you is that these games are not specifically catered to you. I know it's fashionable to have a vastly overwhelming sense of entitlement, but this is just a little does of the real world for you.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.
"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."
Guild Stores will work in two distinct ways. First, it will allow players in the Guild to sell items to one another internally. Secondly, if the Guild has captured a Keep in Cyrodiil, there will be an opportunity to sell to players who are not members of the guild.
Awesone idea, this gives guilds a reason to go pvp and take and maintain a keep.
Comments
This is exactly it, I plan on being in some market guilds but have no interest in being in some huge guild normally. So since you can join 5 guilds no reason I couldn't be in 4 market guilds and 1 tight knit guild like I like.
Stupid.
Will anyone think on their deathbed: "Oh I had such fun times trying to sell those items in ESO by spamming chat, forums and other specialised websites! I should have done this more during my life, while I was able to."?
No. Pretty much everyone is going to regret every minute they spent doing it. Every second.
And it compounds for every player. They should be ashamed of wasting people's lives away in trivial tasks.
You know. I have tested this system and in reality it's a huge time sink... Eventually it's just a shore to deal with.
Anarchy Online had this, with option to search the markets. Each organisation had a own market where players could get a terminal to sell wares. There was also the issue that spots for these markets were limited as was room in them. There was also considerable upkeep costs...
It adds some level of community buidling in game, but these markets might just end up sitting empty and people forced to travel there to buy...
In sense it would be more interesting to make marketplaces in cities where people could rent room. Either a few slots from someone else or entire stalls or shops for higher fee. And allow up setting buy-orders for materials and such. Some sort of system to allow tracking might be good too.
yeah, some of the best times I ever had buying and selling were in lineage 2.
Not only were the "decent/honest" crafters/sellers known but you would actually get into negotiations for certain goods.
Heck, once I was selling shots in Gludio when two other players whispered me and wanted me to raise my prices with them as I was underselling them. I wouldn't because I felt my prices were high enough. They then tried to put up shop signs indicating I was a scammer and then proceeded to buy my stock so they could resell it higher (fine by me).
But I had a LOT of stock and they essentially purchased about half of what I had and couldn't afford any more. So there they sat on their expensive shots while I continued to sell mine.
It was truly a different "game" within the game.
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Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Not exactly true, Ultima Online you used to stand around the bank in one of the major cities basically hawking your wares and not rely on big guilds or guilds at all, mesengers were not with the game then, votive chat wasn't used and everyone managed to craft etc and sell everything just fine.
If it proves to hard for some I'm sure they'll add something, maybe a bio you can write trade, items etc on or segregate (since people will moan if like SWG and UO) housing with a chest people can click on to see available items still have to contact owner tho.
Hopefully people will adjust to the older way of buying / selling ??
similar thing happened to me in Everquest circa 2002
i saw a player selling expensive player made "stat" jewelry, Ring of Valor
i undercut him by 80% and sold tons - but players would also buy from me and re-sell at higher prices
the ring was in high demand
EQ2 fan sites
It's a grate system if you think about it. First in chat you can talk to people and get a lower prices because there will be no gambling because with such system gambling will take lot of time. Also it make it harder for bots to sell looted items. But best thing about it is that there wont be gambling people who will rule market prices like in Gw2 ....
With everyone being able to craft anything they need, is there really a need for a Broker/AH system in the first place? There may be an argument for mats but will there be enough need/want to justify it and will it lead to a healthy economy? I know there are those that hate crafting, but this is an ES game and upgrading your equipment was a crucial part of those games, at least to me anyway.
Rare mats and equipment may support an economy with a Broker/AH but will there be enough supply, and if so, rare mats/equipment stop being rare.
Playing a video game is not wasting one's time on trivial tasks?
Sorry, now I know, it's serious business...
So, I'm not really sure what you said that makes what I said untrue. Is it that you think their system will not alienate a certain segment of the population? I'll try to explain why I think it may alienate those few folks that prefer to be a sort of lone wolf in MMORPGs.
The megaserver makes using a trade chat channel or shouting in an area for hours to sell your stuff unwieldy. I think a lot of people today don't actually want to stand around for hours hawking their stuff anyway. It's just a different gaming culture than it was in 1997. In the end, people can of course do this, but people in guilds are going to have an incredible advantage at exposing their goods and prices to more people than the players that prefer to not be in a guild. That guilds have such a strong advantage in this area can be very frustrating to people that choose to do what you are describing - sending out shouts until someone bites.
ESO also doesn't have housing as far as I'm aware. And there are no player shops.
After all these years (and MMO's), I still think SWG had it right. A Bazaar terminal to make it easy for players to obtain / sell basic items and player shops for the higher end stuff.
Eliminating any form of global trade system is a step backwards IMO and will hurt the game if this is not addressed shortly after launch.
It's also funny how many posters seem to think that standing in Ogrimmar browsing the AH is bad, however it's somehow awesome in their minds to stand in a city spamming trade chat in hopes of finding a buyer or seller for a particular item.
Mark my words, ESO will have a global trade system and LFG tool within the first year.
This is why they dont want to put a global auction house.
"You don't necessarily want to do a global auction house for a game with one giant server because that generally leads to all the best gear being available at very, very cheap prices. A lot of times that can trivialize the game. You cannot have a healthy economy when there are no restrictions on getting the best stuff in the game."
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/tamriel-infinium-selling-your-wares-in-the-elder-scrolls-online/
Its just as it should be. If you want to be a lone wolf there are some drawbacks.
It is can work in an information age, or syfy games but if you think about it the trade in medieval times was decentralized.
New opportunities will arise from such setup as well, as the opportunity of buying cheep selling high will be possible, and social interaction will be necessary.
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
Wont that mean crafters cant make gear as good as dungeon loot and be able to sell it? Since it will bind to them as soon as they make it?
You went to Brittania bank for example, you learnt after awhile who you would buy from, who made the sort of wares were upto your expectations and then also who would buy mats from you. So it didn't necessarily need you standing there for hours. That sort of thing happened once mmo's started to split up the community, last time I said about swtor community in game someone replied that the community is in the guilds, not outside lol
Now for an mmo that is a depressing statement from a player
And you are forgetting that by making consensus there we ended up in a situation we have today in many mmos. Everything is similar everyone is using the same solutions and everyone cry`s about developers not making new solutions. Now that they do make some things different some people are not happy. Surprise surprise.
You cant make things that will please everyone. And you should not. Otherwise you will end up as wow did after so many years becoming a homogenized pop pup.
If you dont like it dont play it. Simple.
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
God i miss those days.... haha
It doesn't actually have to lead to that though. Look at how insanely expensive it is to buy mats to make legendaries in GW2. Their system is spread across every server. Every person that plays that game are looking at the exact same market. Look at games with a BoP system where people can't even sell any of the best gear.
There is also no guarantee that this system will stop prices from dropping to rock bottom. People are not going to suddenly stop competing to sell their goods because they make it more difficult to sell them. It is still dependent on supply and demand just like it always is.
I agree with you for the most part. There are drawbacks to selling things if you don't actually want to be in a guild - which is what the OP and people like him might be upset about.
I think it has potential but a lot depends on how PvP focused this is are the "trading posts" all going to be PvP captured ie keeps or will there be areas outside the PvP zone for traders to set up shop.
If you end up with market places where the different guilds set up shop so to speak its going to be interesting as they will be competing for customers in theory this could give a much more vibrant system than Ah could ever achieve.
How it works will depend on US the players will we set up huge trading guilds which in turn are self reliant and have their own dedicated harvesters who supply raw materials to the master crafters. Or will we have Crafting guilds and harvesting guilds the possibilities are endless.
But its down to us in the old days games like EQ had in my opinion great trading opportunities we the players dictated how trading worked we there were great bargains to be found and vast profits to be made haggling and bartering were frequent you could trade something for something else and it was often fun. The AH stopped that it stopped being interactive and became mechanical. like much else in modern MMORPG every server is now the same there is no individuality anymore everything conforms. In older mmorpgs the shape of a server was shaped by the players there the customs and practices were different depending what sever you were on. <stops rambling>
Anyway thats my 2 cents
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
Guild Stores
Guild Stores will work in two distinct ways. First, it will allow players in the Guild to sell items to one another internally. Secondly, if the Guild has captured a Keep in Cyrodiil, there will be an opportunity to sell to players who are not members of the guild.
Awesone idea, this gives guilds a reason to go pvp and take and maintain a keep.