Originally posted by Utinni Still don't understand the draw of love interests in games like DA, ME, and Fable. Do people actually do this in game?
I don't see the point either to romance a bunch of pixels. I just play and enjoy the games and never bothered to "sandwich" any of the characters.
I agree. Looking for romance? There are websites for that. Better yet, go out and meet people in person. Just quit throwing it in my face. I just wanna be a hero and slay dragons and whatnot.
What's interesting and amazing is that you can do that in DA:I. No one is forced to romance another character. Please. Feel free to slay dragons and whatnot. Those who wish to romance have the option to do so as much as you have the option not to.
My question is who is the audience that wanted romance in these games?
Was the existing predominantly male audience asking for it? If so, maybe we need a lot more romance in these games.
Was it to attract more females to the game? If so, isn't that sexist?
Was it to attract more LGBTQ to the game? If so then that goes into the interesting territory of representation vs tokenism, the latter being the view often taken regarding the gay/minority sidekick in sitcoms and movies.
Who is the audience they are catering to with romance in this game? Did Scalpless hit the mark with his assessment, or are the people cheering about this actually going to buy it?
What you basically just did was demonize any group of people who would want such things in their games.
So if they are catering to straight men then it should be added.
If they are catering to women then that's sexist.
If they are catering to the LGBTQ community it has to be about representation vs tokenism.
but again, if it's straight men then it should be added.
My idea? It's that the creators of the game wanted to add it because they aren't just monkeys who turn cranks and turn out video games. They are artists, creators, writers, etc and they have something to say and they are saying it through the medium they work in.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Vorthanion I find it disturbing that so many gamers are against Bioware being inclusive in their games...
Probably because you're under the impression that the inclusion they are not interested in is the gay guy and not the romance aspect. I normally don't care either way, because I can usually skip that stuff, but I can understand why others may find it undesirable.
It's kinda like when you're watching an action movie and they break from everything else the movie is about to do the love scene. I can't speak for other action movie fans, unless the movie is going the Drive Angry or Shoot Em Up route, I want the movie to cut straight from the embrace to breakfast. I paid my 16 bucks to see explosions and gunfights and monsters. That's kinda how I feel about romance in my games, too.
Even if you skip the romance....you still run into gay people in real life. The kind that are obviously gay. Having a companion being gay doesn't have to be a political statement, it can just be that this person happens to be gay. In which case the people complaining are doing little more than saying I want everyone in the game to be white and keep your PC race crap out of my game.
One easy solution to the problem is to give you who want straight characters the ability when creating your character to choose if you want him or her to be straight, without having to force the rest of us to no play a particular race or class because it is a straight race/class.
You don't see that happening to a lot of games, do you? Talking about agendas...
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by VorthanionI find it disturbing that so many gamers are against Bioware being inclusive in their games...
Probably because you're under the impression that the inclusion they are not interested in is the gay guy and not the romance aspect. I normally don't care either way, because I can usually skip that stuff, but I can understand why others may find it undesirable. It's kinda like when you're watching an action movie and they break from everything else the movie is about to do the love scene. I can't speak for other action movie fans, unless the movie is going the Drive Angry or Shoot Em Up route, I want the movie to cut straight from the embrace to breakfast. I paid my 16 bucks to see explosions and gunfights and monsters. That's kinda how I feel about romance in my games, too. Well, you can skip that stuff while playing a video game. In fact you can skip this character completely just like other BW characters. I think some people are upset simply because it exists. Kind of like real life eh?Completely agree, and we can blame the media for that. Do a google news search for "Dragon Age". Every headline about this new game is pretty much "Look! Dragon Age has GAY!" It's done to get one side cheering and the other side seething. It's good for traffic, good for hits. It's trolling at its finest. Had every single headline not been regurgitation of the "fully gay" (what does that even mean?) PR message, you wouldn't ave the response you have.
I can totally see why some people might be expressing objection and YES, it's a knee-jerk reaction on their part, but it's the DA PR team and the gaming media that are swinging that little hammer with a message intended to incite them. Why? It's free advertising for one and good for site traffic for the other.
Im with you. For the simple fact that for all we know, this could end up being a complete 180 to what some folks are thinking. It could end up being a slanted parody of what bioware "thinks" is a fully gay person (yes what the hell does that mean anyway?) and it could end up pandering to all the homophobes anyway. Could end up being 100% marketing. Could end up whatever. We just dont know yet.
The whole Christianity thing someone brought up is hilarious.
One thing that bothers me about people complaining is in all the bioware games that add this type of option, you have to actively pursue it to make it happen. Even if you took this gay mage and got his affection level to max, at some point the dialog option will come up where if you pick one you enter the romance chain, if you pick the other he just becomes a companion that trusts you etc. It's not FORCED on anyone.
The option has always been there in every one of these games to not do the romance. So really this is all just people getting offended because someone else might pick it.
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Originally posted by Utinni Still don't understand the draw of love interests in games like DA, ME, and Fable. Do people actually do this in game?
I don't see the point either to romance a bunch of pixels. I just play and enjoy the games and never bothered to "sandwich" any of the characters.
I agree. Looking for romance? There are websites for that. Better yet, go out and meet people in person. Just quit throwing it in my face. I just wanna be a hero and slay dragons and whatnot.
Because LIFE has romantic love in it. You will find some sort of reference to it in gaming as a whole. Don't like it? Stop gaming
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Hey! It's just a game...
... and marketing...
Look! A real live homophobe! We shall name him dumbass
One thing that bothers me about people complaining is in all the bioware games that add this type of option, you have to actively pursue it to make it happen. Even if you took this gay mage and got his affection level to max, at some point the dialog option will come up where if you pick one you enter the romance chain, if you pick the other he just becomes a companion that trusts you etc. It's not FORCED on anyone.
The option has always been there in every one of these games to not do the romance. So really this is all just people getting offended because someone else might pick it.
Hmm... the push for adding gay relationships into BW characters didn't just conjure up out of the blue. The complaints and offended flowed in both directions...
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Makes sense. I'm looking forward to a future where the reaction to "Look! A fully gay character!" headline is "Why is this news?"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Hey! It's just a game...
... and marketing...
Look! A real live homophobe! We shall name him dumbass
Call me what you want to empower yourself or feel good...my point still stands...it's just a game...
My question is who is the audience that wanted romance in these games?
Was the existing predominantly male audience asking for it? If so, maybe we need a lot more romance in these games.
Was it to attract more females to the game? If so, isn't that sexist?
Was it to attract more LGBTQ to the game? If so then that goes into the interesting territory of representation vs tokenism, the latter being the view often taken regarding the gay/minority sidekick in sitcoms and movies.
Who is the audience they are catering to with romance in this game? Did Scalpless hit the mark with his assessment, or are the people cheering about this actually going to buy it?
What you basically just did was demonize any group of people who would want such things in their games.
So if they are catering to straight men then it should be added.
If they are catering to women then that's sexist.
If they are catering to the LGBTQ community it has to be about representation vs tokenism.
but again, if it's straight men then it should be added.
My idea? It's that the creators of the game wanted to add it because they aren't just monkeys who turn cranks and turn out video games. They are artists, creators, writers, etc and they have something to say and they are saying it through the medium they work in.
This is so brilliantly stated. Why are the ostensible wishes of "straight men" the only ones that should be honored?
Additionally, why is this, an optional portion of the game so controversial? Romance in general, and so-called "gay" romance in particular, are not required to progress the story. It is a fully optional portion of the overall game. For those who wish to save the world as a single unattached character, brilliant. For those who choose to save the world as a romanced character, brilliant as well.
What Bioware has done is bring a reflection of the real world into its roleplaying game. Believe it or not, most of us actually know people who are gay or lesbian. Why is having a representation of that fact in DAI a bad thing?
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Hey! It's just a game...
... and marketing...
Look! A real live homophobe! We shall name him dumbass
Call me what you want to empower yourself or feel good...my point still stands...it's just a game...
Gosh, gay people exist! Gay people exist in games, JUST like real life! Amazing!!!! Gay developers, artists too! Stop the madness!!
So is Bioware also going to create a homophobe race? You know like you well said everybody has space in a game, so can we have a homophobe race or homophobe companion that goes beside you all day poking fun and cussing gay people?
Originally posted by mayito7777 So is Bioware also going to create a homophobe race? You know like you well said everybody has space in a game, so can we have a homophobe race or homophobe companion that goes beside you all day poking fun and cussing gay people?
A homophobe race. I don't think you know what the word means. On a less idiotic note, they tackled racism so they might do the same with homophobia.
It makes no difference to me which way an npc leans. What matters is if the character has a personality that makes the game more enjoyable. I loved minsc and boo and I enjoyed Morrigans smarmy attitude. These are the things that bring a character alive especially for a player like myself who's not really interested in the romance aspect.
Originally posted by mayito7777 So is Bioware also going to create a homophobe race? You know like you well said everybody has space in a game, so can we have a homophobe race or homophobe companion that goes beside you all day poking fun and cussing gay people?
No... I am sad to say that you and your friends will be discriminated in this regard. You will simply have to be content in yelling at your monitor and send the character in question in to die first.
Fortunately for you, reality has a much higher amount of the kind of people you are looking for... by now i am sure there is a facebook group you can join if you dare to stand up for your opinion.
I wish devs would stop forcing romance down our throats.
Keep it as an option? yes
Give the PLAYER the option to roleplay whatever lifestyle they wish for their characters, instead of pre-cooking choices I may not even not be interested in making, in a game?
Honestly those who are pushing for the gay agenda is because they want to Role play their characters, look at all the games out there and see how many RP servers are against plain PVE/PVP servers? In each game I have played there are only 1 RP server and if lucky 1 RP PVP server and dozens of regular servers.
So the amount of players who want to have sex RP with their toons is a minority, so stop the nonsense if you want to live and RP your gay lifestyle or gay fantasy is your right, I am not here to tell you not to do it, but do not push it on me, otherwise the same way you are demanding respect for your homo desires I could demand respect for my Christian beliefs.
Noteworthy point but at the end of the day it is for marketing purposes soley...
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Hey! It's just a game...
... and marketing...
Look! A real live homophobe! We shall name him dumbass
Call me what you want to empower yourself or feel good...my point still stands...it's just a game...
Gosh, gay people exist! Gay people exist in games, JUST like real life! Amazing!!!! Gay developers, artists too! Stop the madness!!
Congratulations! Celebrate! Throw a parade...a pep rally! 1's and 0's has joined the fight!
The announcement is not that serious... it's shouldn't even be news. It's a game, not a statement platform. Play the game, enjoy the content, beat it, move on...
Originally posted by SBFord What Bioware has done is bring a reflection of the real world into its roleplaying game. Believe it or not, most of us actually know people who are gay or lesbian. Why is having a representation of that fact in DAI a bad thing?
Well for one thing: If their hyper patriarchal heteronormative relationships they have historically done in their previous games are any indication of the treatment they will give a gay relationship, I am already cringing.
But like I said earlier, lets see how they actually handle this before rushing to judgement.
I wish devs would stop forcing romance down our throats.
Keep it as an option? yes
Give the PLAYER the option to roleplay whatever lifestyle they wish for their characters, instead of pre-cooking choices I may not even not be interested in making, in a game?
If you played a Bioware game before you should already know that it IS optional.
Will they announce a "fully straight" character next? How am i supposed to know now unless it's announced? Do the characters whom haven't had their sexual preference announced have no sexual preference?
Comments
What you basically just did was demonize any group of people who would want such things in their games.
So if they are catering to straight men then it should be added.
If they are catering to women then that's sexist.
If they are catering to the LGBTQ community it has to be about representation vs tokenism.
but again, if it's straight men then it should be added.
My idea? It's that the creators of the game wanted to add it because they aren't just monkeys who turn cranks and turn out video games. They are artists, creators, writers, etc and they have something to say and they are saying it through the medium they work in.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You don't see that happening to a lot of games, do you? Talking about agendas...
"EVE is likely the best MMORPG that you've never really understood or played" - Kyleran
I keep hearing and reading about this 'agenda.' Where do I sign up to find out about it? I haven't received any newsletters about it, or even e-mail! In this day and age there is simply no excuse for this. It's not like it would cost them money for a postage stamp to keep me informed on the latest happenings with said 'agenda.' As a gay man I find this unacceptable.
You guys are the reason we need more of this. Even if, as Lok touched on, it's tokenism. Maybe in 20-30 years when people have become more accepting I may find gay tokens something to get offended about but not today. The exposure is needed that much.
Well, you can skip that stuff while playing a video game. In fact you can skip this character completely just like other BW characters. I think some people are upset simply because it exists. Kind of like real life eh?
Completely agree, and we can blame the media for that. Do a google news search for "Dragon Age". Every headline about this new game is pretty much "Look! Dragon Age has GAY!" It's done to get one side cheering and the other side seething. It's good for traffic, good for hits. It's trolling at its finest. Had every single headline not been regurgitation of the "fully gay" (what does that even mean?) PR message, you wouldn't ave the response you have.
I can totally see why some people might be expressing objection and YES, it's a knee-jerk reaction on their part, but it's the DA PR team and the gaming media that are swinging that little hammer with a message intended to incite them. Why? It's free advertising for one and good for site traffic for the other.
Im with you. For the simple fact that for all we know, this could end up being a complete 180 to what some folks are thinking. It could end up being a slanted parody of what bioware "thinks" is a fully gay person (yes what the hell does that mean anyway?) and it could end up pandering to all the homophobes anyway. Could end up being 100% marketing. Could end up whatever. We just dont know yet.
The whole Christianity thing someone brought up is hilarious.
One thing that bothers me about people complaining is in all the bioware games that add this type of option, you have to actively pursue it to make it happen. Even if you took this gay mage and got his affection level to max, at some point the dialog option will come up where if you pick one you enter the romance chain, if you pick the other he just becomes a companion that trusts you etc. It's not FORCED on anyone.
The option has always been there in every one of these games to not do the romance. So really this is all just people getting offended because someone else might pick it.
some people think it's contagious
that playing a 'gay guy' will make them gay
stupid is weird like that
Hey! It's just a game...
... and marketing...
Because LIFE has romantic love in it. You will find some sort of reference to it in gaming as a whole. Don't like it? Stop gaming
Look! A real live homophobe! We shall name him dumbass
Hmm... the push for adding gay relationships into BW characters didn't just conjure up out of the blue. The complaints and offended flowed in both directions...
Makes sense. I'm looking forward to a future where the reaction to "Look! A fully gay character!" headline is "Why is this news?"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Call me what you want to empower yourself or feel good...my point still stands...it's just a game...
Men like romance options as much as women do, it's alot like watching soccer or, having a fat lover or, riding a moped....
a fun ride till your friends see you doing it...
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
This is so brilliantly stated. Why are the ostensible wishes of "straight men" the only ones that should be honored?
Additionally, why is this, an optional portion of the game so controversial? Romance in general, and so-called "gay" romance in particular, are not required to progress the story. It is a fully optional portion of the overall game. For those who wish to save the world as a single unattached character, brilliant. For those who choose to save the world as a romanced character, brilliant as well.
What Bioware has done is bring a reflection of the real world into its roleplaying game. Believe it or not, most of us actually know people who are gay or lesbian. Why is having a representation of that fact in DAI a bad thing?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gosh, gay people exist! Gay people exist in games, JUST like real life! Amazing!!!! Gay developers, artists too! Stop the madness!!
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
A homophobe race. I don't think you know what the word means. On a less idiotic note, they tackled racism so they might do the same with homophobia.
No... I am sad to say that you and your friends will be discriminated in this regard. You will simply have to be content in yelling at your monitor and send the character in question in to die first.
Fortunately for you, reality has a much higher amount of the kind of people you are looking for... by now i am sure there is a facebook group you can join if you dare to stand up for your opinion.
This have been a good conversation
I wish devs would stop forcing romance down our throats.
Keep it as an option? yes
Give the PLAYER the option to roleplay whatever lifestyle they wish for their characters, instead of pre-cooking choices I may not even not be interested in making, in a game?
Congratulations! Celebrate! Throw a parade...a pep rally! 1's and 0's has joined the fight!
The announcement is not that serious... it's shouldn't even be news. It's a game, not a statement platform. Play the game, enjoy the content, beat it, move on...
Well for one thing: If their hyper patriarchal heteronormative relationships they have historically done in their previous games are any indication of the treatment they will give a gay relationship, I am already cringing.
But like I said earlier, lets see how they actually handle this before rushing to judgement.
If you played a Bioware game before you should already know that it IS optional.