Now, i know some of you will say these aren't MMOs, with the exception of Landmark, however, what do they all have in common? They have tools and creative modes, and they aren't just for building. You can create scripts, avatars, textures, buildings, and in some cases, your own A.I. You can pretty much build your own MMO in SL if you have the skills, although i wouldn't recommend it, since the tech is really crappy for an MMO. Landmark will soon have storybricks, and tools to create your own quests and scripts (from what i've read anyway).
The point is, developers need to provide the creative tools (shovels & buckets), for their virtual environments (cities & zones, etc.). Otherwise, you get developer created content which remains static until they change it. In other words, a themepark.
Could housing and farming in AA be considered sandbox tools, by changing the environment? One could argue yes, but then all the other MMOs that have harvesting and housing could be considered sandboxes too, and i don't think anyone here would seriously say WoW is a sandbox since it also has farming, and soon it will have garrisons.
Dead horse has now been beaten.
except I think there is a difference between a sandbox game and a sandbox mmo.
UO seems to have been considered the first sandbox mmo or one of the first. Someone can argue that point if they wish.
Could you create your own scripts, your own designs for buildings, weapons, etc, your own textures, your own AI or avatars in UO?
Can you do that in EVE which is another game that is considered a sandbox (though others argue against that)?
if not then I don't know of any game other than 2nd life which can be considered a sandbox by your definition.
So it seems that one has to accept the idea of a "sandbox" mmo which might encompass the idea of free play, "living in a world" and essentially not having the developers tell you what to do.
That's not to say that mmo's can't have the things you are listing but since the sandbox vs themepark debate has been discussed for quite a long time (with people expressing preference for a sandbox) then it must mean that sandbox mmo's have existed prior to landmark or minecraft or any on your list.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You have repeatedly asserted that what matters is "sandbox design", and repeatedly failed to define what "sandbox design" is. Probably because you can't without talking about the dreaded "features".
If you keep misusing the terms, there is no way you can understand what I say and what sandbox design is.
The issue is on your end, not mine.
If you can't even define "sandbox design", I'm afraid that's no one's problem but yours.
Originally posted by dandurinIf you can't even define "sandbox design", I'm afraid that's no one's problem but yours.At least your opposition can define their terms.
Again, you re trying to bite more than you can chew. You are trying to engage into a discussion about design while not understand what desing actually is - interchanging features for design like you did above.
Originally posted by dandurinLOL, after all the abuse you've given to people for not appreciating "sandbox design", and all the opportunities you've been given to actually define "sandbox design", all you can come up with is "you wouldn't understand it if I explained it". Well, isn't that convenient. To that I say "have a nice day".
And indeed I explained and pointed out your errors and you do not understand any of what I said.
You just keep misusing the terms and asking for "sandbox definition" regardless. W/e I say just falls onto deaf ears.
Until you get to wrap your head around the idea that features do not determine the design, I guess personal attacks towards me is all you are left with...
The 1st 30 minutes of any game, whether sandbox or not is usually linear because its a tutorial type. Try the first 30 minutes of wurm.
lol - Go to the Glyph panel and look at Archage. Their own text says "Journey into the storied fantasy world of ArcheAge, the ultimate sandbox MMO built on player choice and empowerment."
Originally posted by Cliff1963 Are you trolling? Invest some more hours playing and then form an opinion. Your answers will probably be answered then. Just to be clear: I don't play AA, but with every other MMO: you can't tell what sort of game it is after 30 minutes of play.
I'm sorry - I thought this was a game? If it's not fun within the first 5 minutes, why the hell are you playing it?
If it takes until level 30 (which is conceivably 30 hours or more play time for someone who isn't leveling optimally) for this game to become what it was marketed to be, then that's a catastrophic failure.
Heck, knowing what I know, I'm not even going to *try* the game... because I can't actually do something for 20-30 hours that I find boring.
Originally posted by Cliff1963 Are you trolling? Invest some more hours playing and then form an opinion. Your answers will probably be answered then. Just to be clear: I don't play AA, but with every other MMO: you can't tell what sort of game it is after 30 minutes of play.
I'm sorry - I thought this was a game? If it's not fun within the first 5 minutes, why the hell are you playing it?
If it takes until level 30 (which is conceivably 30 hours or more play time for someone who isn't leveling optimally) for this game to become what it was marketed to be, then that's a catastrophic failure.
Heck, knowing what I know, I'm not even going to *try* the game... because I can't actually do something for 20-30 hours that I find boring.
Great. So you guys can't spare more than 5 minutes playing a game to give it a real shot but you can spend 1 billion hours on these forums posting about a game which you spent 5 minutes playing. It's sad, it really is.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by Cliff1963 Are you trolling? Invest some more hours playing and then form an opinion. Your answers will probably be answered then. Just to be clear: I don't play AA, but with every other MMO: you can't tell what sort of game it is after 30 minutes of play.
I'm sorry - I thought this was a game? If it's not fun within the first 5 minutes, why the hell are you playing it?
If it takes until level 30 (which is conceivably 30 hours or more play time for someone who isn't leveling optimally) for this game to become what it was marketed to be, then that's a catastrophic failure.
Heck, knowing what I know, I'm not even going to *try* the game... because I can't actually do something for 20-30 hours that I find boring.
Great. So you guys can't spare more than 5 minutes playing a game to give it a real shot but you can spend 1 billion hours on these forums posting about a game which you spent 5 minutes playing. It's sad, it really is.
I don't know how long it takes for you to type 4 sentences, but I tend to do it in just shy 1 billion hours.
And you're right - it is sad. When a game is so bad, I'd rather be typing sentences on some interweb forum than playing it.
Comments
except I think there is a difference between a sandbox game and a sandbox mmo.
UO seems to have been considered the first sandbox mmo or one of the first. Someone can argue that point if they wish.
Could you create your own scripts, your own designs for buildings, weapons, etc, your own textures, your own AI or avatars in UO?
Can you do that in EVE which is another game that is considered a sandbox (though others argue against that)?
if not then I don't know of any game other than 2nd life which can be considered a sandbox by your definition.
So it seems that one has to accept the idea of a "sandbox" mmo which might encompass the idea of free play, "living in a world" and essentially not having the developers tell you what to do.
That's not to say that mmo's can't have the things you are listing but since the sandbox vs themepark debate has been discussed for quite a long time (with people expressing preference for a sandbox) then it must mean that sandbox mmo's have existed prior to landmark or minecraft or any on your list.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
>but for a modern MMO in 2014 it fails to shine..... especially as a Sandbox.
Please read my post a little higher and point me to a better one, I will gladly play that instead then...
Never mind you are quoting noble nerd. It looked like that was your statement.
I completely agree with you and would ask him "what currently released sandbox game is he referring to".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If you can't even define "sandbox design", I'm afraid that's no one's problem but yours.
At least your opposition can define their terms.
Again, you re trying to bite more than you can chew. You are trying to engage into a discussion about design while not understand what desing actually is - interchanging features for design like you did above.
And indeed I explained and pointed out your errors and you do not understand any of what I said.
You just keep misusing the terms and asking for "sandbox definition" regardless. W/e I say just falls onto deaf ears.
Until you get to wrap your head around the idea that features do not determine the design, I guess personal attacks towards me is all you are left with...
lol - Go to the Glyph panel and look at Archage. Their own text says "Journey into the storied fantasy world of ArcheAge, the ultimate sandbox MMO built on player choice and empowerment."
They call it a SANDBOX!
I'm sorry - I thought this was a game? If it's not fun within the first 5 minutes, why the hell are you playing it?
If it takes until level 30 (which is conceivably 30 hours or more play time for someone who isn't leveling optimally) for this game to become what it was marketed to be, then that's a catastrophic failure.
Heck, knowing what I know, I'm not even going to *try* the game... because I can't actually do something for 20-30 hours that I find boring.
To be honest, it only really gets "sandboxy" after level 35 or so.
And also it's only sandboxy for patrons, due to the insane Labor Point system, you simply don't have enough LP to do stuff, let alone a farm,
Great. So you guys can't spare more than 5 minutes playing a game to give it a real shot but you can spend 1 billion hours on these forums posting about a game which you spent 5 minutes playing. It's sad, it really is.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I don't know how long it takes for you to type 4 sentences, but I tend to do it in just shy 1 billion hours.
And you're right - it is sad. When a game is so bad, I'd rather be typing sentences on some interweb forum than playing it.