Originally posted by Velocinox This is why Subscriptions are a bad idea. If you are going B2P you need to do it from the beginning. Since it first came out as Sub, the box has been discounted. If you plan B2P from the beginning, you can also plan to NOT discount the entry fee, and keep a $60 level of investment in the game most casually disruptive F2P types will not be willing to pay. Now, ESO can be had for under $10... A much more attractive one time payment for the casually bored asshat.
The Secret World did the same thing.
Yea, but TSW is a pretty niche genre. It doesn't have the same draw that a fantasy game does... (unfortunately)
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
There are so many lovely posts i would like to quote right now. I guess people never learn and still latch on to 'it will never go F2P/B2P" statements as if it is a fact.
When Zeni got rid of 6 months sub option it was a clear sign but fans they were still in denial.. who can argue some sense into them? no one really. I bet they still believe ESO has 1+ million subs and Zeni didn't announce any official numbers because they were under no obligation. lol
I am glad to see it go B2P and not F2P. I will stay with them as long as they do not add lockbox / loot bags that you have to buy tons of to get a outfit or other things. If everything in the cash shop can be bought out right and not some random number generator/ chance crap I am cool with it. Just stay away from SWTOR cash shop crap and other eastern business models.
This is great. I really liked the game but just haven't had enough time lately to play MMOs and felt that having a subscription wasn't worthwhile. Now I can play again now and then instead of some other F2Pish games out there. Yay!
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
WoW isn't good enough to warrant a sub imo, that's why I never got past lvl 20 in it. But apparently lots of ppl feel differently. Personally I'd rather play ESO over WoW any day, so to me it's worth a sub.
And the article should not say "akin to GW2" because it isn't. It's buy to play, yes, but GW2 doesn't offer DLCs and they have gems-gold conversion, which ESO won't have. So that's misleading.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
WoW isn't good enough to warrant a sub imo, that's why I never got past lvl 20 in it. But apparently lots of ppl feel differently. Personally I'd rather play ESO over WoW any day, so to me it's worth a sub.
And the article should not say "akin to GW2" because it isn't. It's buy to play, yes, but GW2 doesn't offer DLCs and they have gems-gold conversion, which ESO won't have. So that's misleading.
the difference is my point isnt really about what merits a sub or not (I kinda agree about WOW tbh) but about lies and those lies being rewarded.
Wow didnt pull a bait and switch and lie about it less than a week before changing everything- Thats my point.
EDIT- Its about integrity and showing these companies that if they keep lying about...everything...they lose . Sadly this just showing the next big game in the works how foolish we are and how we will reward liars. THIS is part of the reason the genre is so corrupt and dirty...because of us. We allow it.
Well, at least it's B2P, so there will be some sort of barrier to the F2P cockroaches.
It's funny but I've spent more on cash shops in F2P games (PlanetSide2; Rift; Hearthstone; etc) then I ever did in the games I subscribed to. Although this doesn't apply to everyone who enjoys F2P games, I truly believe the old subscription model is outdated (late 90's and early 2000's) and I welcome the ala carte model most companies are adopting.
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
WoW isn't good enough to warrant a sub imo, that's why I never got past lvl 20 in it. But apparently lots of ppl feel differently. Personally I'd rather play ESO over WoW any day, so to me it's worth a sub.
And the article should not say "akin to GW2" because it isn't. It's buy to play, yes, but GW2 doesn't offer DLCs and they have gems-gold conversion, which ESO won't have. So that's misleading.
the difference is my point isnt really about what merits a sub or not (I kinda agree about WOW tbh) but about lies and those lies being rewarded.
Wow didnt pull a bait and switch and lie about it less than a week before changing everything- Thats my point.
I agree, they could've handled it better, but they weren't ready to release the statement, so they had to come up with something. It doesn't change anything though. So what if they said the 6 month option was unpopular? How does that affect the game or peoples decision to play or not play it? Exactly, it doesn't.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
I'll still not buy it, imo it's matter of waiting a bit more for the full F2P.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
WoW isn't good enough to warrant a sub imo, that's why I never got past lvl 20 in it. But apparently lots of ppl feel differently. Personally I'd rather play ESO over WoW any day, so to me it's worth a sub.
And the article should not say "akin to GW2" because it isn't. It's buy to play, yes, but GW2 doesn't offer DLCs and they have gems-gold conversion, which ESO won't have. So that's misleading.
the difference is my point isnt really about what merits a sub or not (I kinda agree about WOW tbh) but about lies and those lies being rewarded.
Wow didnt pull a bait and switch and lie about it less than a week before changing everything- Thats my point.
I agree, they could've handled it better, but they weren't ready to release the statement, so they had to come up with something. It doesn't change anything though. So what if they said the 6 month option was unpopular? How does that affect the game or peoples decision to play or not play it? Exactly, it doesn't.
They lied-They could have remained silent but chose to lie at least twice in a week(once about why they removed the sub option and once about "the comminity wants it)
Maybe they are just "not ready to release a statement"about whats really going to be i n the cash shop- With the amount ofl lies how can ANYTHING be trusted that they say? And why reward them?
NVM- its a lost cause- This is the state of MMOs today. greedy and liars who are supported by their fans even while lying to their faces... Oh well...
1) I'll be able to test the game when it doesn't work properly without paying a subscription like I did in November for 3 weeks.
2) Some of my friends are more likely to either try it now or play it.
3) I prefer subscriptions, so I can still have the option if I want while others can still play without that.
4) As much as I wish it stayed subscription, I do think this will help the game be more successful and will definitely be a plus for the console folks. I may even get a 2nd copy for the console.
It's not as bad as if it had gone completely F2P. LOTRO was one of the first subscription games to switch to this particular B2P / Subscription type model with cash shop. The fact ESO still has a subscription model is a good sign. That means the game will have perks for those who decide to subscribe still.
While there will be a slight change in the community atmosphere, I think the fact you still have to purchase the game in order to play it will help diminish the persistent annoyances that come with a completely F2P game.
I can live with this change.
Maybe they just arent ready to announce the real plan yet. After milking the box sales forthe console and seeingit slow down,around fall it goes full F2P once box sales are not high enough.get everyone in to use the cash shop...
And guess what?It'll be defended. EDIT/Add- When a company can blatantly lie and is defended and supported forit-Whats the lesson?The lesson is keep lying and watch the money roll in. The fans will make exuses for you and the profit is far higher if your lies can actually reward you.
How can you trust ANYTHING these people say?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH- This is why we cannot have nice things.
Creeping incriments...Slowly moving towards the original goal and milking everyone along the way in small steps.
But they would never do that,right? They would tell you.
Already gave my 2c's on the other official thread. All I have to say here is: dayum, CGI has finally gotten to the point where the "actors" don't look like blank-eyed and badly rendered monstrosities. It makes me feel kinda old.
I wish they'd do a whole movie in this style.
No kidding, I actually had a hard time deciding whether those were actors in costume, or CGI models.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
June 9th? Are you kidding me what a joke, almost a whole year after the first set release date on consoles, think ill just pass on this title what a rip.
Already gave my 2c's on the other official thread. All I have to say here is: dayum, CGI has finally gotten to the point where the "actors" don't look like blank-eyed and badly rendered monstrosities. It makes me feel kinda old.
I wish they'd do a whole movie in this style.
-Its off topic but have you tried any of the telltale games? They are like interactive movies and I personally love them. To me this has been the coolest new development in interactive entertainment since CGI was actually ever put into games.
These games have faults (not going to list them) but ... They can grab you in a way no movie can. If they continue to improve , in a few years these will be where I get 99% of my entertainment from.
^ I would actually purchase the game if this would happen.
Too bad that Carbine isn't even smart enough to grasp the concept of free trials up to level XY.
Instead they sit on servers barren below lvl50 and have no idea wtf to do with the game.
Wildstar's publisher is NCsoft, they know a lot about the f2p/b2p market with titles like Aion, Liniage I & II, Guild Wars I & II. Their biggest money makers per year are Aion and Liniage both f2p titles. I'm sure the Carbine devs have something cooking for that title to go f2p/b2p. The CREDD system was most likely a placeholder for the cash shop model. Think about it, a in-game currency that can be bought with real money to be pumped into the game economy through player trading. That just screams the likes of Rift REX, GW2 Gems, or PWE Zen.
I don't understand why MMO's are still trying to keep the sub model alive when all it does is alienate a vast majority of gamers who are potential patrons of their title. Or, they don't have confidence in the content of their product or assets to make it profitable.
Already gave my 2c's on the other official thread. All I have to say here is: dayum, CGI has finally gotten to the point where the "actors" don't look like blank-eyed and badly rendered monstrosities. It makes me feel kinda old.
I wish they'd do a whole movie in this style.
No kidding, I actually had a hard time deciding whether those were actors in costume, or CGI models.
Yeh that's Blur Studio for you. Those guys are some the best in the business.
^ I would actually purchase the game if this would happen.
Too bad that Carbine isn't even smart enough to grasp the concept of free trials up to level XY.
Instead they sit on servers barren below lvl50 and have no idea wtf to do with the game.
Wildstar's publisher is NCsoft, they know a lot about the f2p/b2p market with titles like Aion, Liniage I & II, Guild Wars I & II. Their biggest money makers per year are Aion and Liniage both f2p titles. I'm sure the Carbine devs have something cooking for that title to go f2p/b2p. The CREDD system was most likely a placeholder for the cash shop model. Think about it, a in-game currency that can be bought with real money to be pumped into the game economy through player trading. That just screams the likes of Rift REX, GW2 Gems, or PWE Zen.
I don't understand why MMO's are still trying to keep the sub model alive when all it does is alienate a vast majority of gamers who are potential patrons of their title. Or, they don't have confidence in the content of their product or assets to make it profitable.
I think that you are totally correct about WS.
Sub model is being milked- I'm not sure its really meant to survive. It seems like lately the sub games we have had are really a way to get monthly income while beta testing for the true release(and the REAL profit)
I think these games are being developed with that model from the start.
Sub games dont HAVE to be dead... But they probably are. At least anything with quality.
Comments
Yea, but TSW is a pretty niche genre. It doesn't have the same draw that a fantasy game does... (unfortunately)
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
There are so many lovely posts i would like to quote right now. I guess people never learn and still latch on to 'it will never go F2P/B2P" statements as if it is a fact.
When Zeni got rid of 6 months sub option it was a clear sign but fans they were still in denial.. who can argue some sense into them? no one really. I bet they still believe ESO has 1+ million subs and Zeni didn't announce any official numbers because they were under no obligation. lol
ESO SHOULD have been B2P from day 1- I say that as someone who supports sub games and thinks F2P and B2P and horrible... But ESO just wasnt good enough imho and was too 'single player 'to merit a sub.
That said, anyone who supports zeni is rewarding liars and is the main reason gaming companies seem to be able to lie ,misrepresent and get rewarded in the end (and a snowball effect is happening across the genre)
Zeni just last week claimed the 6 month sub was removed because "people didnt like it" while giving the impression there were no plans for a change in monetization. Today they claIm "THEY DID THIS BECAUSE "ITS WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS"
You people paid to beta test a game until the real launch (as many have said) and in the past week the lies have been cranking out (there will be a six month sub again...surprise!!)
-Keep rewarding liars. Keep rewarding it. Its really helping these companies see that they need integrity or they will lose. =/
WoW isn't good enough to warrant a sub imo, that's why I never got past lvl 20 in it. But apparently lots of ppl feel differently. Personally I'd rather play ESO over WoW any day, so to me it's worth a sub.
And the article should not say "akin to GW2" because it isn't. It's buy to play, yes, but GW2 doesn't offer DLCs and they have gems-gold conversion, which ESO won't have. So that's misleading.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
the difference is my point isnt really about what merits a sub or not (I kinda agree about WOW tbh) but about lies and those lies being rewarded.
Wow didnt pull a bait and switch and lie about it less than a week before changing everything- Thats my point.
EDIT- Its about integrity and showing these companies that if they keep lying about...everything...they lose . Sadly this just showing the next big game in the works how foolish we are and how we will reward liars. THIS is part of the reason the genre is so corrupt and dirty...because of us. We allow it.
As long as they can keep delivering.
I agree, they could've handled it better, but they weren't ready to release the statement, so they had to come up with something. It doesn't change anything though. So what if they said the 6 month option was unpopular? How does that affect the game or peoples decision to play or not play it? Exactly, it doesn't.
Currently playing: Elder Scrolls Online, Elite: Dangerous | Recently played: FFXIV, Rift, LoTRO, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Guild Wars 2 | Single player RPGs: Dragon Age Inquisition, Skyrim
Well that was quick.
I'll still not buy it, imo it's matter of waiting a bit more for the full F2P.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
They lied-They could have remained silent but chose to lie at least twice in a week(once about why they removed the sub option and once about "the comminity wants it)
Maybe they are just "not ready to release a statement"about whats really going to be i n the cash shop- With the amount ofl lies how can ANYTHING be trusted that they say? And why reward them?
NVM- its a lost cause- This is the state of MMOs today. greedy and liars who are supported by their fans even while lying to their faces... Oh well...
You're right, only the one... the mighty... the magnificent.... World of Warcraft is good enough for this model!!
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I'm happy about this for a few reasons:
1) I'll be able to test the game when it doesn't work properly without paying a subscription like I did in November for 3 weeks.
2) Some of my friends are more likely to either try it now or play it.
3) I prefer subscriptions, so I can still have the option if I want while others can still play without that.
4) As much as I wish it stayed subscription, I do think this will help the game be more successful and will definitely be a plus for the console folks. I may even get a 2nd copy for the console.
There Is Always Hope!
Maybe they just arent ready to announce the real plan yet. After milking the box sales forthe console and seeingit slow down,around fall it goes full F2P once box sales are not high enough.get everyone in to use the cash shop...
And guess what?It'll be defended. EDIT/Add- When a company can blatantly lie and is defended and supported forit-Whats the lesson?The lesson is keep lying and watch the money roll in. The fans will make exuses for you and the profit is far higher if your lies can actually reward you.
How can you trust ANYTHING these people say?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH- This is why we cannot have nice things.
Creeping incriments...Slowly moving towards the original goal and milking everyone along the way in small steps.
But they would never do that,right? They would tell you.
No kidding, I actually had a hard time deciding whether those were actors in costume, or CGI models.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
-Its off topic but have you tried any of the telltale games? They are like interactive movies and I personally love them. To me this has been the coolest new development in interactive entertainment since CGI was actually ever put into games.
These games have faults (not going to list them) but ... They can grab you in a way no movie can. If they continue to improve , in a few years these will be where I get 99% of my entertainment from.
Wildstar's publisher is NCsoft, they know a lot about the f2p/b2p market with titles like Aion, Liniage I & II, Guild Wars I & II. Their biggest money makers per year are Aion and Liniage both f2p titles. I'm sure the Carbine devs have something cooking for that title to go f2p/b2p. The CREDD system was most likely a placeholder for the cash shop model. Think about it, a in-game currency that can be bought with real money to be pumped into the game economy through player trading. That just screams the likes of Rift REX, GW2 Gems, or PWE Zen.
I don't understand why MMO's are still trying to keep the sub model alive when all it does is alienate a vast majority of gamers who are potential patrons of their title. Or, they don't have confidence in the content of their product or assets to make it profitable.
Yeh that's Blur Studio for you. Those guys are some the best in the business.
http://www.blur.com/work/
edit: Further off topic but this one is my favorite they have done so far.
http://www.blur.com/work/project/the-force-unleashed-ii-trailer/
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I think that you are totally correct about WS.
Sub model is being milked- I'm not sure its really meant to survive. It seems like lately the sub games we have had are really a way to get monthly income while beta testing for the true release(and the REAL profit)
I think these games are being developed with that model from the start.
Sub games dont HAVE to be dead... But they probably are. At least anything with quality.
Good! Good! I paid the 3 mo subscription from launch but stopped. Was waiting for this so I can go back. Not worth the sub.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!