I will continue to sub unless I see a greater net benefit purchasing things directly from the "convenience shop". I am assuming it will include mounts and bag space, both of which I'd have purchased already. Since I can care less about cosmetics this change may allow me to end my sub saving me a lot of money in the long run.
I seriously doubt ESO is short on subs or that this move was in any way motivated by retention issues. During peak hours there are crowds everywhere and I am constantly re-instanced when I hit a city area. In ESO you can start an alt and still enjoy all the lower level content with lots of other people.
Despite being happily an ESO "fanboi" I seriously hope that Zenimax fixes the group phasing issues before they release to console where at least duo play will be in much bigger demand. If I had started ESO on console and was prevented from playing with my son sitting right next to me I would have cancelled very quickly.
Del Cabon A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
i said it before and ill say it again ill try my best not to subscribe to another game its just not worth it,i always feel I got the raw end of the deal!
^ I would actually purchase the game if this would happen.
Too bad that Carbine isn't even smart enough to grasp the concept of free trials up to level XY.
Instead they sit on servers barren below lvl50 and have no idea wtf to do with the game.
Wildstar's publisher is NCsoft, they know a lot about the f2p/b2p market with titles like Aion, Liniage I & II, Guild Wars I & II. Their biggest money makers per year are Aion and Liniage both f2p titles. I'm sure the Carbine devs have something cooking for that title to go f2p/b2p. The CREDD system was most likely a placeholder for the cash shop model. Think about it, a in-game currency that can be bought with real money to be pumped into the game economy through player trading. That just screams the likes of Rift REX, GW2 Gems, or PWE Zen.
I don't understand why MMO's are still trying to keep the sub model alive when all it does is alienate a vast majority of gamers who are potential patrons of their title. Or, they don't have confidence in the content of their product or assets to make it profitable.
I for one am quite satisfied with seeing that Wildstar didn't win the F2P/B2P race it was holding with ESO. Now I don't really mind if Wildstar will go B2P, ESO bended its knee first.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Now then, where are all the people that white knighted this game back in beta and reported a bunch of us saying negative things about the game and why it would not be a subscription game faster than SWTOR went F2P?
At some point, you would think that SOME people would learn to stop and maybe listen to others comments and perhaps get on board with trying to make a developer see what is wrong with their game while in beta instead of blindly defending and allowing another bland craptastic game be made.
I once again point to the quote in my sig about how white knights ruin more games than anything else. You make it possible for developers to think nothing is wrong only to find out too late that there is a LOT wrong.
Nonsense.
What really was wrong with the game at launch?
[mod edit]
BTW, remember that time when playing Daggerfall Covnant, having to save that farm town founded by a veteran retired Wizard and his band of adventurers that were so freaking powerful, yet couldn't defend themselves against bandits and then, after freeing them from captivity decided they were going to leave, perhaps come out of retirement, but wanted you to talk to the others, you know...their friends first, to see if they wanted to...but they wouldn't talk to you until you did something for them, like go dig up their armor that's spread throughout the levi's, because, you know...they cant dig I guess? Or talk unless they have their god damn armor? Then the other one, whose life could not continue without revenge against the bandit leader that dishonored her life force or some shit so wanted you to get herbs so she could turn into a crocodile and kill him and she HAD TO DO IT or not be able to move on only to find out that she expected you to lead her to him and help her kill him and WTF WHO WROTE THIS CRAP STORY?!?
Yeah, that ^^^ crap is what is partly wrong with this game. A world filled with the most idiotic and incompetent people in ANY game I have played...and I am supposed to be inspired to eventually go PvP and try to become emperor of these morons?
By the end of the 3rd zone I was thinking that I wish I could help Molag Bal come and kill everyone...literally FRUSTRAITED at some of the quest stories, never happened to me before in 20 YEARS of MMORPGING.
And that's just the story. Don't get me started on the shat limited skill bars that lead to bland combat and horrible UI. BTW, really LOVED the bag space, what little there was, in a game where they tout their deep crafting system that eats that space up quicker than a $2 whore with a service line.
To see what is wrong with a game, you don't look at what YOU like, you look at what OTHERS like...and THAT is how you find out if a game is going to succeed or fail...its how it WONT get others to buy, or stay.
You, you are focused on yourself and that is why great game makers like Raph Koster doesn't want to hear from people like you.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Bill, thank you for the post. This is how I have viewed the announcement also. The Buy to Play being more a solution to having to change the marketing model for one version (consoles). I personally will more than likely continue my subscription with the change in March.
My biggest concern will be to see how they handle the Crown shop in the game. I like not having a bunch of UI element in my face while I play.
Also it would have been nice to be able to play with console people on PC. I have friends and relatives that will probably pick up the console game, but I am a PC gamer.
They basically did a paid beta on pc and milked their customers for console release lol. I'm actually happy about this. I'll buy this game on ps4 and play it peacefully without any bugs and bots...
This!
AND to all the nay sayers trolling the earlier article weeks ago speculating F2P......
^ I would actually purchase the game if this would happen.
Purchased it and played only for 20 days. I might play it again a bit if it goes B2P. WS is much like ESO to me - it's fun but not warranting a subscription.
For me there are only 2 MMOs that warrant a subscription: World of Warcraft (though I don't really play it) and Final Fantasy XIV (thinking of picking it up again).
If i bought the game at alpha and was a subscriber for more then 6 month,will I have access to the game after March 17,without paying?
__________________ Originally Posted by Cephus at AOUniverse I look at WoW as the crap-filter of the MMO world. It attracts all the idiots and lets the rest of us play in relative peace.
For me there are only 2 MMOs that warrant a subscription: World of Warcraft (though I don't really play it) and Final Fantasy XIV (thinking of picking it up again).
This is the only right answer. If the devs are going to be so cheap that they can't produce significant value to the customer at regular intervals in massive volumes, they should go B2P/F2P so at least the players don't have to constantly pay up to receive a big middle finger month after month. ESO is doing the right thing.
Granted, with WoW not releasing any meaningful content for a full year just so they can rip the customers off even more by making them pay for an expansion which locks out the content, I'm quite hard-pressed to include that game in the list.
Right now FFXIV is truly the only game being worth a sub fee (and the customers are better off for it).
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I do think many PC users are right to feel used. I and most of my guild stopped playing a few months ago due to so many PvP problems. Many of us were thinking of coming back for another go. The sub wasn't the problem, the constant game braking lag etc was. And we didn't see why we should have to pay to see if it was fixed or not, I've been asking for a free weekend for a while now so that iI can see it's all OK (or not)
It kind of feels like maybe if the devs had concentrated on fixing the problems rather than getting ready for B2P, we might have had a more smoother game play, hence it really does feel like we paid to beta test for the console launch.
That said, I was about to give ESO another try anyway, will wait until March ad see how things have improved.
They have lied to us time and time again, plus with other games track records of having cash shops, I doubt it will remain as they say. I would be extremely surprised if within 6 months to a year it didn't become another pay to win game.
I do think many PC users are right to feel used. I and most of my guild stopped playing a few months ago due to so many PvP problems. Many of us were thinking of coming back for another go. The sub wasn't the problem, the constant game braking lag etc was. And we didn't see why we should have to pay to see if it was fixed or not, I've been asking for a free weekend for a while now so that iI can see it's all OK (or not)
It kind of feels like maybe if the devs had concentrated on fixing the problems rather than getting ready for B2P, we might have had a more smoother game play, hence it really does feel like we paid to beta test for the console launch.
That said, I was about to give ESO another try anyway, will wait until March ad see how things have improved.
They have lied to us time and time again, plus with other games track records of having cash shops, I doubt it will remain as they say. I would be extremely surprised if within 6 months to a year it didn't become another pay to win game.
+1 I must admit, I'm puzzled by how they have managed this game. I hope they realize they can spin and silence but people who play the game will know and even if it's F2P, that if it's not fun, they won't come back. Even if some players stay hoping the next big patch will make all the problems go away, there won't be many. Beautiful game terrible execution.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
And not even a year has passed. Ah well, another company that did not listen to the (right) alpha testers. Yeah, how can players know what the players want...so strange. And then they scramble to change things after launch...doing even more stupid shit usually. I swear, I derive more fun out of that the past few years than actually playing the crap they release.
One would think other devs would learn from mistakes of their peers...especially after so many AAA titles botched their launch/1st month...and they're pretty much similar mistakes every single time, variations on a theme I'd say.
And not even a year has passed. Ah well, another company that did not listen to the (right) alpha testers. Yeah, how can players know what the players want...so strange. And then they scramble to change things after launch...doing even more stupid shit usually. I swear, I derive more fun out of that the past few years than actually playing the crap they release.
One would think other devs would learn from mistakes of their peers...especially after so many AAA titles botched their launch/1st month...and they're pretty much similar mistakes every single time, variations on a theme I'd say.
Was about to say the same thing. Its downright scary how they never learn.
I just hope a Skyrim sequel is still on Bethesda's roadmap.
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Ahead of Schedule. Not really F2P, but close enough.
Anyone with vision called this before the game was even released. As many have pointed out, there are very few games the deserve to place a subscription model on their title. I still have no desire to play this game. It is a bland game bringing nothing to the table but rehashed garbage in a dieing genre perpetually supported by the overly optimistic.
So P2P has to die because of console gaming. I give it a year before the cash shop becomes a casino, I won't say wait and see, seen what happens way to often.
So P2P has to die because of console gaming. I give it a year before the cash shop becomes a casino, I won't say wait and see, seen what happens way to often.
Originally posted by maticbed THEY COPIED THE GW2 LITERALLY. ESO dont have enough people and they need to go B2P if they want to get some money like GEMS STORE in GW2. but people will still play GW2 after the big incoming expansion
Dude... you sound so angry with that shouting you're doing.
Also I can't tell if you're angry about them using the obviously successful model which GW2 uses, or if you're happy, or if you're self conscious about liking GW2, or secretly worried about people leaving your favorite game for another...
I for one, pretty much welcome this. I played for a month or two in the fall, stopped to play WoD for a little over a month and now Im sickly bored with WoD. Will probably re-sub to ESO tonight and depending on how the crowns and cash shop workout, maybe stay subbed.
However, many people on the ESO forums are up in arms for one reason or another. Its like they didnt see this coming. They knew a console release was around the corner and subscription models for consoles haven't really worked out very well in the past. Theres been clamor about this on the forums and most people have welcomed the idea of Buy 2 Play. Now that its becoming a reality, its suddenly a shock to everyone ... like they were broadsided by this.
The only thing I can see them being slightly upset about is rewarding customer loyalty throughout this past year. We have no idea what the cash shop will have...will crowns even be worth it? Will there be only two or three sets of aesthetics and stuff to get? Will it be constantly updated with lots of cool stuff all the time? Or one new set per month? They definitely need to give these players that have played the game for so long a bit extra reward...
But Im excited. Good things. Im coming back, my brother is going to buy the game now.
If you and people like you quit, thats just silly. You wasted your time then. So the game is going buy to play...so what? The content stays the same. EVERYONE will be paying, in some way, for the DLCs . Zenimax will still have a steady stream of money to support the game.
I just see this as taking down a mandatory barrier to entry, opening it up to everyone to play the "original" game. When new content is released via DLC, if you want to experience it, you pay for it either by a sub or individually.
Comments
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I will continue to sub unless I see a greater net benefit purchasing things directly from the "convenience shop". I am assuming it will include mounts and bag space, both of which I'd have purchased already. Since I can care less about cosmetics this change may allow me to end my sub saving me a lot of money in the long run.
I seriously doubt ESO is short on subs or that this move was in any way motivated by retention issues. During peak hours there are crowds everywhere and I am constantly re-instanced when I hit a city area. In ESO you can start an alt and still enjoy all the lower level content with lots of other people.
Despite being happily an ESO "fanboi" I seriously hope that Zenimax fixes the group phasing issues before they release to console where at least duo play will be in much bigger demand. If I had started ESO on console and was prevented from playing with my son sitting right next to me I would have cancelled very quickly.
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
1$=100 crowns it seems, based on 1500 crowns per month for a 15$ sub.
I for one am quite satisfied with seeing that Wildstar didn't win the F2P/B2P race it was holding with ESO. Now I don't really mind if Wildstar will go B2P, ESO bended its knee first.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Well guess I have to eat my words, never thought they would go this route. But I hope it is not going to be anything like LOTRO (worse F2P setup).
Yep you guys were right and I was WRONG!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
[mod edit]
BTW, remember that time when playing Daggerfall Covnant, having to save that farm town founded by a veteran retired Wizard and his band of adventurers that were so freaking powerful, yet couldn't defend themselves against bandits and then, after freeing them from captivity decided they were going to leave, perhaps come out of retirement, but wanted you to talk to the others, you know...their friends first, to see if they wanted to...but they wouldn't talk to you until you did something for them, like go dig up their armor that's spread throughout the levi's, because, you know...they cant dig I guess? Or talk unless they have their god damn armor? Then the other one, whose life could not continue without revenge against the bandit leader that dishonored her life force or some shit so wanted you to get herbs so she could turn into a crocodile and kill him and she HAD TO DO IT or not be able to move on only to find out that she expected you to lead her to him and help her kill him and WTF WHO WROTE THIS CRAP STORY?!?
Yeah, that ^^^ crap is what is partly wrong with this game. A world filled with the most idiotic and incompetent people in ANY game I have played...and I am supposed to be inspired to eventually go PvP and try to become emperor of these morons?
By the end of the 3rd zone I was thinking that I wish I could help Molag Bal come and kill everyone...literally FRUSTRAITED at some of the quest stories, never happened to me before in 20 YEARS of MMORPGING.
And that's just the story. Don't get me started on the shat limited skill bars that lead to bland combat and horrible UI. BTW, really LOVED the bag space, what little there was, in a game where they tout their deep crafting system that eats that space up quicker than a $2 whore with a service line.
To see what is wrong with a game, you don't look at what YOU like, you look at what OTHERS like...and THAT is how you find out if a game is going to succeed or fail...its how it WONT get others to buy, or stay.
You, you are focused on yourself and that is why great game makers like Raph Koster doesn't want to hear from people like you.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Bill, thank you for the post. This is how I have viewed the announcement also. The Buy to Play being more a solution to having to change the marketing model for one version (consoles). I personally will more than likely continue my subscription with the change in March.
My biggest concern will be to see how they handle the Crown shop in the game. I like not having a bunch of UI element in my face while I play.
Also it would have been nice to be able to play with console people on PC. I have friends and relatives that will probably pick up the console game, but I am a PC gamer.
Gotta be honest. You are very obnoxious.
Purchased it and played only for 20 days. I might play it again a bit if it goes B2P. WS is much like ESO to me - it's fun but not warranting a subscription.
For me there are only 2 MMOs that warrant a subscription: World of Warcraft (though I don't really play it) and Final Fantasy XIV (thinking of picking it up again).
__________________
Originally Posted by Cephus at AOUniverse
I look at WoW as the crap-filter of the MMO world. It attracts all the idiots and lets the rest of us play in relative peace.
This is the only right answer. If the devs are going to be so cheap that they can't produce significant value to the customer at regular intervals in massive volumes, they should go B2P/F2P so at least the players don't have to constantly pay up to receive a big middle finger month after month. ESO is doing the right thing.
Granted, with WoW not releasing any meaningful content for a full year just so they can rip the customers off even more by making them pay for an expansion which locks out the content, I'm quite hard-pressed to include that game in the list.
Right now FFXIV is truly the only game being worth a sub fee (and the customers are better off for it).
And it shows
Could see this coming for a while now.
I do think many PC users are right to feel used. I and most of my guild stopped playing a few months ago due to so many PvP problems. Many of us were thinking of coming back for another go. The sub wasn't the problem, the constant game braking lag etc was. And we didn't see why we should have to pay to see if it was fixed or not, I've been asking for a free weekend for a while now so that iI can see it's all OK (or not)
It kind of feels like maybe if the devs had concentrated on fixing the problems rather than getting ready for B2P, we might have had a more smoother game play, hence it really does feel like we paid to beta test for the console launch.
That said, I was about to give ESO another try anyway, will wait until March ad see how things have improved.
They have lied to us time and time again, plus with other games track records of having cash shops, I doubt it will remain as they say. I would be extremely surprised if within 6 months to a year it didn't become another pay to win game.
+1 I must admit, I'm puzzled by how they have managed this game. I hope they realize they can spin and silence but people who play the game will know and even if it's F2P, that if it's not fun, they won't come back. Even if some players stay hoping the next big patch will make all the problems go away, there won't be many. Beautiful game terrible execution.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
And not even a year has passed. Ah well, another company that did not listen to the (right) alpha testers. Yeah, how can players know what the players want...so strange. And then they scramble to change things after launch...doing even more stupid shit usually. I swear, I derive more fun out of that the past few years than actually playing the crap they release.
One would think other devs would learn from mistakes of their peers...especially after so many AAA titles botched their launch/1st month...and they're pretty much similar mistakes every single time, variations on a theme I'd say.
Was about to say the same thing. Its downright scary how they never learn.
I just hope a Skyrim sequel is still on Bethesda's roadmap.
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Ahead of Schedule. Not really F2P, but close enough.
Anyone with vision called this before the game was even released. As many have pointed out, there are very few games the deserve to place a subscription model on their title. I still have no desire to play this game. It is a bland game bringing nothing to the table but rehashed garbage in a dieing genre perpetually supported by the overly optimistic.
So P2P has to die because of console gaming. I give it a year before the cash shop becomes a casino, I won't say wait and see, seen what happens way to often.
Just to make it clear, its B2P not F2P.
Potatoes..potatos.
Dude... you sound so angry with that shouting you're doing.
Also I can't tell if you're angry about them using the obviously successful model which GW2 uses, or if you're happy, or if you're self conscious about liking GW2, or secretly worried about people leaving your favorite game for another...
The console version was always planned as far as I remember.
I for one, pretty much welcome this. I played for a month or two in the fall, stopped to play WoD for a little over a month and now Im sickly bored with WoD. Will probably re-sub to ESO tonight and depending on how the crowns and cash shop workout, maybe stay subbed.
However, many people on the ESO forums are up in arms for one reason or another. Its like they didnt see this coming. They knew a console release was around the corner and subscription models for consoles haven't really worked out very well in the past. Theres been clamor about this on the forums and most people have welcomed the idea of Buy 2 Play. Now that its becoming a reality, its suddenly a shock to everyone ... like they were broadsided by this.
The only thing I can see them being slightly upset about is rewarding customer loyalty throughout this past year. We have no idea what the cash shop will have...will crowns even be worth it? Will there be only two or three sets of aesthetics and stuff to get? Will it be constantly updated with lots of cool stuff all the time? Or one new set per month? They definitely need to give these players that have played the game for so long a bit extra reward...
But Im excited. Good things. Im coming back, my brother is going to buy the game now.
If you and people like you quit, thats just silly. You wasted your time then. So the game is going buy to play...so what? The content stays the same. EVERYONE will be paying, in some way, for the DLCs . Zenimax will still have a steady stream of money to support the game.
I just see this as taking down a mandatory barrier to entry, opening it up to everyone to play the "original" game. When new content is released via DLC, if you want to experience it, you pay for it either by a sub or individually.
What exactly is the problem here?