To be fair the CIG forum community asked first for "smart bombs" to purchase, that were supposed to "target everyone, spray sparks everywhere, then blow up before reaching the target." I'd say this is a nice compromise.
The article on the Escapist is one of the only articles I've ever seen in games media which I would call worthy of the term "journalism". Multiple sources, giving Robert's the chance to reply and quoting him next to the other sources (it's his problem if he first couldn't make his reply fit within editorial standards), attempting to be objective.
That people call it "bad journalism", while it's one of the only recent articles in the gaming press which doesn't simply recycle company news or gives some purely subjective opinion by the writer themselves, is ridiculous. Investigating and hearing the ugly sides is what journalism is, and it hurts (especially for the fanboys).
Only big critique I have, is that the article should have been "cooked" a lot more. Following the money and establishing the real state of the game could take weeks or months of research, but 90+ million doesn't just disappear. I wanted to see a lot more numbers in that article and a lot more real leads.
Now whether Star Citizen is really in as much trouble as the ex-employees say it is or not, is to be awaited. I'll keep my stance of "wait and see" for this project.
What's most worrying however, is not that they miss their deadlines, but that they're going with this "module" launch thing. Roberts promises to hunt an elephant with his project, but instead he shows off mice.
Having a single neat level, some room to walk around in and an upcoming FPS that frankly looks mediocre are nothing if you can't show us how you plan to tackle the big issue of designing massive exteriors with the matching interiors all in a big seamless world.
It's bitter irony that a project which people bought into exactly because of that seamless aspect is cut up and delivered in small pieces.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Hum went to SC web-site and chat section uder comms. and at the top of page under general says not to talk about SC or its problems and direct all comments to RSI main page under CR's response. This is not good for an open froum as said by Roberts.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
The article on the Escapist is one of the only articles I've ever seen in games media which I would call worthy of the term "journalism". Multiple sources, giving Robert's the chance to reply and quoting him next to the other sources (it's his problem if he first couldn't make his reply fit within editorial standards), attempting to be objective.
That people call it "bad journalism", while it's one of the only recent articles in the gaming press which doesn't simply recycle company news or gives some purely subjective opinion by the writer themselves, is ridiculous. Investigating and hearing the ugly sides is what journalism is, and it hurts (especially for the fanboys).
Only big critique I have, is that the article should have been "cooked" a lot more. Following the money and establishing the real state of the game could take weeks or months of research, but 90+ million doesn't just disappear. I wanted to see a lot more numbers in that article and a lot more real leads.
Now whether Star Citizen is really in as much trouble as the ex-employees say it is or not, is to be awaited. I'll keep my stance of "wait and see" for this project.
What's most worrying however, is not that they miss their deadlines, but that they're going with this "module" launch thing. Roberts promises to hunt an elephant with his project, but instead he shows off mice.
Having a single neat level, some room to walk around in and an upcoming FPS that frankly looks mediocre are nothing if you can't show us how you plan to tackle the big issue of designing massive exteriors with the matching interiors all in a big seamless world.
It's bitter irony that a project which people bought into exactly because of that seamless aspect is cut up and delivered in small pieces.
They never gave him the chance to reply, Keefer was in contact with CIG and knew when to expect the response. The escapist version is that his reply was conveniently "lost" in a spam folder, so they decided to release the article before adding the CR side.
As it seems this thread wasn't the only place that got traffic yesterday from Derek. Here's some fun popcorn worthy links to what's going on around some other sites, for those to busy to dig.
Here's Derek first attempting to pat himself on the back, and his followers enjoying the first looks of "the article". (Couldn't wait a day?) http://imgur.com/rxwsR3D
Here's what NeoGAF is saying. Some solid points in the mix there. ( Everyone is now verified staff of CIG who has a ProxCard2, from HID Global for those not in the know.) http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119644
Lastly a photo, and some video of one of those ID cards that proved sources identity. Millions of people have them. They are used to open doors, not for identification. You can clearly see both sides of it watching the entire video, and there's no name on it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQe2fd4VAAA2Yx9.jpg
Lastly a photo, and some video of one of those ID cards that proved sources identity. Millions of people have them. They are used to open doors, not for identification. You can clearly see both sides of it watching the entire video, and there's no name on it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQe2fd4VAAA2Yx9.jpg
Lastly a photo, and some video of one of those ID cards that proved sources identity. Millions of people have them. They are used to open doors, not for identification. You can clearly see both sides of it watching the entire video, and there's no name on it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQe2fd4VAAA2Yx9.jpg
They never gave him the chance to reply, Keefer was in contact with CIG and knew when to expect the response. The escapist version is that his reply was conveniently "lost" in a spam folder, so they decided to release the article before adding the CR side.
Except for you know... the part where his responses have actually been added next to every quote by the sources in the article.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
They never gave him the chance to reply, Keefer was in contact with CIG and knew when to expect the response. The escapist version is that his reply was conveniently "lost" in a spam folder, so they decided to release the article before adding the CR side.
Except for you know... the part where his responses have actually been added next to every quote by the sources in the article.
Sure, after their allegations were able to circulate on their own for while. If Escapist had bothered to do the article right the first go around, there wouldn't be the need for edits.
They never gave him the chance to reply, Keefer was in contact with CIG and knew when to expect the response. The escapist version is that his reply was conveniently "lost" in a spam folder, so they decided to release the article before adding the CR side.
Except for you know... the part where his responses have actually been added next to every quote by the sources in the article.
Sure, after their allegations were able to circulate on their own for while. If Escapist had bothered to do the article right the first go around, there wouldn't be the need for edits.
Damn you got them there i wouldn't believe anything that had been edited to add extra information. lol
We will all wait to see what Chris Roberts does that is what people are waiting for now it's up to him to prove it's all false.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ethics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
They never gave him the chance to reply, Keefer was in contact with CIG and knew when to expect the response. The escapist version is that his reply was conveniently "lost" in a spam folder, so they decided to release the article before adding the CR side.
Except for you know... the part where his responses have actually been added next to every quote by the sources in the article.
Sure, after their allegations were able to circulate on their own for while. If Escapist had bothered to do the article right the first go around, there wouldn't be the need for edits.
Damn you got them there i wouldn't believe anything that had been edited to add extra information. lol
We will all wait to see what Chris Roberts does that is what people are waiting for now it's up to him to prove it's all false.
Honestly, after doing a bit of reading into defamation laws... If CR tries to actually go after the Escapist, he better hope they made up the source verification process.
I, too, believe it a little silly to assume the Escapist just "conveniently" left out CR's response just to... I dunno, sully their own name? Because even if they hadn't included it ever, they knew CR would post a response on his website. What's the point?
Much more likely, it hit the spam folder just as Escapist said, and they added it when they found it.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
The longer he waits the more suspicious people will get.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
Actually it is up to Chris Roberts to make his move he has to take action against escapist so they have to prove what they wrote is from confirmed sources and not some made up story.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ethics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
Sure, keep the focus on an ID card, and conveniently leave out the part about the employee being identified by the ID card and PAY STUBS.
Perhaps they made the pay stubs themselves.....
As far as ethics go, six of one, half a dozen of the other with regards to CR/CIG and Escapist.
Really, how ethical is it to take more money than you originally claim to need, not release the product you said you were going to release if you got the money you claimed to need, and keep changing the approx release date while taking more and more money (more than they said they needed for all the stretch goals), all the while changing the ToS so people that want one cannot request a refund unless the game fails to appear FOUR YEARS after the original release date.
Seems real ethical to me.....
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
Realizer is exactly correct in this. It is always the person that brings the charges that must prove them. CR does not have to prove anything. He can obiously poke holes in their charges, which he has done.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
Actually it is up to Chris Roberts to make his move he has to take action against escapist so they have to prove what they wrote is from confirmed sources and not some made up story.
No actually the made up story part is starting to piece itself together quite nice without any litigation. By the internet doing it's due diligence unlike escapist. It just seems over here on this forum we are behind the curve a bit. Other journalists are calling this thing what it is in other forums, a poor excuse for an unbiased story. I've provided links already where you can find said quotes. You can sit there regurgitating the same thing post after post, but the internet moves faster than that.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
Actually it is up to Chris Roberts to make his move he has to take action against escapist so they have to prove what they wrote is from confirmed sources and not some made up story.
Is that how this works now? Journalist can say sketchy stuff and its the burden of those whom it defames to prove it wrong? That's f'in crazy! Everyone will start just making up crazy shit and if the subject doesn't address it, its true.
As I said, I also thought that the article should have been left to cook longer. In the lightning-fast environment of the internet, these things happen though.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ehtics) http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I just find it strange that people are trying too discredit the arcticle when it's Chris Roberts is the one who needs to prove what has been said is false and people are waiting.
Ah see here's where you're wrong, the burden of proof sits on the accusers. In this case that would be DS, and Escapist. Chris Roberts is innocent until proven guilty of something other than wanting to make an ambitious game. It's the job of the accusers to bring forth evidence of wrong doing, and it needs to be verifiable.
Actually it is up to Chris Roberts to make his move he has to take action against escapist so they have to prove what they wrote is from confirmed sources and not some made up story.
Is that how this works now? Journalist can say sketchy stuff and its the burden of those whom it defames to prove it wrong? That's f'in crazy! Everyone will start just making up crazy shit and if the subject doesn't address it, its true.
So you have never heard of anyone having to retract a story, or someone being sued over a story that had been published ?
They have already said they have confirmed their sources but people seem to be having a problem with that especially this I.D card.
If everyhting is ok at Star Citizen then Chris Roberts will not have a problem taking action aginst escapist.
Someone just wrote something in a book about the British prime minister and people don't know if that is true or not.
Comments
That people call it "bad journalism", while it's one of the only recent articles in the gaming press which doesn't simply recycle company news or gives some purely subjective opinion by the writer themselves, is ridiculous.
Investigating and hearing the ugly sides is what journalism is, and it hurts (especially for the fanboys).
Only big critique I have, is that the article should have been "cooked" a lot more. Following the money and establishing the real state of the game could take weeks or months of research, but 90+ million doesn't just disappear. I wanted to see a lot more numbers in that article and a lot more real leads.
Now whether Star Citizen is really in as much trouble as the ex-employees say it is or not, is to be awaited. I'll keep my stance of "wait and see" for this project.
What's most worrying however, is not that they miss their deadlines, but that they're going with this "module" launch thing. Roberts promises to hunt an elephant with his project, but instead he shows off mice.
Having a single neat level, some room to walk around in and an upcoming FPS that frankly looks mediocre are nothing if you can't show us how you plan to tackle the big issue of designing massive exteriors with the matching interiors all in a big seamless world.
It's bitter irony that a project which people bought into exactly because of that seamless aspect is cut up and delivered in small pieces.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
MAGA
MAGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dva5QNc8GWE
Watch the subtitles at the bottom of the video. Funny as hell!
On a serious note, this website has dissected both letters to the Escapist that CR wrote:
http://www.informationredux.com/index.php/2015/10/03/lets-take-apart-this-letter-that-chris-roberts-wrote-to-the-escapist/
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Here's Derek first attempting to pat himself on the back, and his followers enjoying the first looks of "the article". (Couldn't wait a day?)
http://imgur.com/rxwsR3D
Here's a thread from CIG forums with a testimony from an ex-employee of Blizzard, who now works for CIG.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/287257/a-cig-employee-s-perspective
This is what the hilarious Kevin Dent had to say in his blog, and the twitter battle that came after.
(Get your popcorn ready)
http://kevin-dent.squarespace.com/blog/2015/10/4/star-citizens
http://imgur.com/Yg9id3Q
Here's what NeoGAF is saying. Some solid points in the mix there. ( Everyone is now verified staff of CIG who has a ProxCard2, from HID Global for those not in the know.)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119644
Lastly a photo, and some video of one of those ID cards that proved sources identity. Millions of people have them. They are used to open doors, not for identification. You can clearly see both sides of it watching the entire video, and there's no name on it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQe2fd4VAAA2Yx9.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y1X4tLFdU0&feature=youtu.be&t=7m32s
All in all, I can't say I'm surprised how this is turning out, and I hope something good comes out of it all; whatever that may be.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
We will all wait to see what Chris Roberts does that is what people are waiting for now it's up to him to prove it's all false.
One cannot dismiss the article as a whole because it was up for a short while before the response was added (a very weak response I might add). He did get a chance to reply and by far most people who read the article will have read it with his response added.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Also the fact they bypassed several major rules of ethics in journalism. Specifically considering sources motives before promising anonymity," in this case others apply as well. (here's a link for reference of said ethics)
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Edit: link
I, too, believe it a little silly to assume the Escapist just "conveniently" left out CR's response just to... I dunno, sully their own name? Because even if they hadn't included it ever, they knew CR would post a response on his website. What's the point?
Much more likely, it hit the spam folder just as Escapist said, and they added it when they found it.
The longer he waits the more suspicious people will get.
Perhaps they made the pay stubs themselves.....
As far as ethics go, six of one, half a dozen of the other with regards to CR/CIG and Escapist.
Really, how ethical is it to take more money than you originally claim to need, not release the product you said you were going to release if you got the money you claimed to need, and keep changing the approx release date while taking more and more money (more than they said they needed for all the stretch goals), all the while changing the ToS so people that want one cannot request a refund unless the game fails to appear FOUR YEARS after the original release date.
Seems real ethical to me.....
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Realizer is exactly correct in this. It is always the person that brings the charges that must prove them. CR does not have to prove anything. He can obiously poke holes in their charges, which he has done.
Holla back, yo.
They have already said they have confirmed their sources but people seem to be having a problem with that especially this I.D card.
If everyhting is ok at Star Citizen then Chris Roberts will not have a problem taking action aginst escapist.
Someone just wrote something in a book about the British prime minister and people don't know if that is true or not.