would be interesting if this thread had something to do with SC.
Based on one of the posted videos this game is being done for SC despite the fact that it's not mentioned in the kick starter.
Link and time stamp please.
Have fun
Find it yourself. Hint... it's a video that's in this thread and the time stamp is somewhere between 0:00 and the end of the video. If you have been following this discussion you should have no problems finding it.
Done for SC even though the board game was first released and published 30 years ago.
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever since then"
from the Kickstarter page. This is an updated project of his and nothing more.
Think this would have been an interesting topic, if people didn't try to pin this on SC and ride the drama train
The only things they may have directly copied are the armor suits that the characters are wearing. Other than that, there's really nothing else. The fact they have other people's faces should be enough to prove parody, and movie business does parody all the time. Mad TV, Saturday Night Live, and all the Scary Movies titles take popular scenes and skits, or sometimes directly copy plots of stories. It's all in good fun, if Deviantart or Garriott, really want to press charges, they should do so and see how it turns out. Otherwise people on the internet claiming plagiarism doesn't do anything in the grand scheme of things. No permission is legally required, people just like drama.
Looks like they also copied the box art from a Walgreens contest and possibly the background on Richard's picture. Oh and lets not forget in the video there is art copied from the star wars universe, although not as blatantly. He was also having mods ban anyone in the live twitch stream they were hosting before the project completed and removing the question if it had anything to do with the plagiarism issue.
So actually there was a lot more than just the armor suits being copied.
why is this here in a SC forum. it has nothing to do with SC
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The only things they may have directly copied are the armor suits that the characters are wearing. Other than that, there's really nothing else. The fact they have other people's faces should be enough to prove parody, and movie business does parody all the time. Mad TV, Saturday Night Live, and all the Scary Movies titles take popular scenes and skits, or sometimes directly copy plots of stories. It's all in good fun, if Deviantart or Garriott, really want to press charges, they should do so and see how it turns out. Otherwise people on the internet claiming plagiarism doesn't do anything in the grand scheme of things. No permission is legally required, people just like drama.
Looks like they also copied the box art from a Walgreens contest and possibly the background on Richard's picture. Oh and lets not forget in the video there is art copied from the star wars universe, although not as blatantly. He was also having mods ban anyone in the live twitch stream they were hosting before the project completed and removing the question if it had anything to do with the plagiarism issue.
So actually there was a lot more than just the armor suits being copied.
why is this here in a SC forum. it has nothing to do with SC
read my OP and the replies and try to stay on topic please.
would be interesting if this thread had something to do with SC.
Based on one of the posted videos this game is being done for SC despite the fact that it's not mentioned in the kick starter.
Link and time stamp please.
Have fun
Find it yourself. Hint... it's a video that's in this thread and the time stamp is somewhere between 0:00 and the end of the video. If you have been following this discussion you should have no problems finding it.
Done for SC even though the board game was first released and published 30 years ago.
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever since then"
from the Kickstarter page. This is an updated project of his and nothing more.
Think this would have been an interesting topic, if people didn't try to pin this on SC and ride the drama train
Like I said, there is no mention of it on their kick starter. So you have successfully verified one point. Now go watch the video in this very thread to verify the other.
Done for SC even though the board game was first released and published 30 years ago.
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever since then"
from the Kickstarter page. This is an updated project of his and nothing more.
Think this would have been an interesting topic, if people didn't try to pin this on SC and ride the drama train
Like I said, there is no mention of it on their kick starter. So you have successfully verified one point. Now go watch the video in this very thread to verify the other.
Herase's point is legitimate to a point. I had this game from SJG and there are similarities. The game board is roughly the same, particularly the movement layout, the spaceship tokens are the same and both have trader's luck cards. After this, the similarity stops.
I "could" accept it was just an updated version of the former game if he had not been using the game design to simulate future SC economy development (as per the video page 4), if he had not been displaying it at events with SC presentation over the last 4 months, if he had not included "branding" as concepts / personalities from SC...
Fine, if you want to call it "Star Traders 2016, Star Citizen Edition", I'd meet you half way. I will tell you, though, this game didn't get great reception, that release 30 years ago, and it would not get a percentage of the reception today had Ladyman not currently been a CIG employee and thus having Roberts promote/ "back" it. It does have Star Citizen written all over it, whether that is in actual print or not, it is being referenced as the "Star Citizen" board game, and it is an distinguishable, albeit covert, representation for the Star Citizen brand. Saying otherwise is intentionally obtuse, completely ignoring the obvious.
The artist who copied the work of others is the only guilty party, unless he conveyed what he did to the people who hired him and they gave it the green light. That is from a moral standpoint, imho. and Yes, i am a professional artist. I seriously doubt anyone at CIG could have spotted the infringement. Hell, the guys who made the board game probably wouldn't spot the issue unless he told him them what he did to create the art they commissioned.
However, the Company who hired him and used the infringed work to generate income can and might be held liable in court. It would then be up to the company who made the game to sue the artist for damaged they incurred due to his dishonesty. If they were smart, they would find the individuals who made the original art, offer them a few bucks, and never used the infringed work again. For the sections that came from a film...god help them.
For the record. Richard Archer, the art-stealing Eff-tard who called himself an artist, should be sued into another dimension so he can never use his hands to steal another persons work ever again. As a professional who depends on income for my work to feed my kids....grrrrr, effing fraud.
Little late to the feast with this one. First off I agree the artist who doodled over someone elses artwork and then presented it totally as his own is the go to guy to be held accountable. And that's really only if there are people out there who want him held accountable. We'll see how that goes.
This is true. Perfect example of The Streisand Effect. He could come out better than he was before, for sure!
it is being referenced as the "Star Citizen" board game,
--> Where ? Not on the SC homepage. Not on the Kickstarter page.
and it is an distinguishable, albeit covert, representation for the Star Citizen brand.
--> Only in your mind. With the same - and even more conviction - you could call this an Isaac Asimov brand game ... his direct pro-Star-Traders quote is even on the Kickstarter page.
Saying otherwise is intentionally obtuse, completely ignoring the obvious.
--> It is completely obvious that you intentionally focus on a tiny part of a much greater thing ...and ignore two dozen other different Sci Fi universes that have influenced this game (see Kickstarter page).
On the SC homepage there is a single shout out for the Kickstarter
and two relevant sentences: "..We don’t have any stake in Star Traders..", "..They’ve also
scattered some Star Citizen Easter eggs in the game itself… and even
asked Sandi and I to appear as characters." --> but there are also references to Wing Commander, Star Wars, Asimov novels and other stuff from two dozen SF universes in the game according to the Kickstarter game.
On the Star Traders Kickstarter page you find some community support from the SC community at the end of the page (together with other supporting groups) and the backer packages get a free-add-on digital PDF blueprint for a ship (AEGIS Avenger type) because the Star Traders character "Maverick" (who looks like Chris ... with permission) uses a ship that looks like the Avenger (used with permission).
No where is there anything mentioned that calls this the "Star Citizen" board game. To the contrary, it is MUCH MUCH older as David Ladyman explains:
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson
Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years
later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever
since then. Now, with the renaissance of board games and the arrival of
Kickstarter, I have a chance to do just that"
Out of all the things going on with Star Citizen, this has to be the least news worthy, point to debate yet. I guess it is a slow week for most of us.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Little late to the feast with this one. First off I agree the artist who doodled over someone elses artwork and then presented it totally as his own is the go to guy to be held accountable. And that's really only if there are people out there who want him held accountable. We'll see how that goes.
Well, there is a problem with this approach.
You see, certain people on these boards have taken it upon themselves to hold CR personally accountable for this artwork issue. No matter what the facts or the info show they are on a mission to convince us that CR is the one at fault here.
Little late to the feast with this one. First off I agree the artist who doodled over someone elses artwork and then presented it totally as his own is the go to guy to be held accountable. And that's really only if there are people out there who want him held accountable. We'll see how that goes.
Well, there is a problem with this approach.
You see, certain people on these boards have taken it upon themselves to hold CR personally accountable for this artwork issue. No matter what the facts or the info show they are on a mission to convince us that CR is the one at fault here.
This was the sole purpose of this thread.
Really? The sole purpose? I know you fans will attack anyone who so much as glares at SC or the divine Chris Roberts but please re read my OP where I lay the blame at the creator of the board games feet and not on Chris or CIG.
Really? The sole purpose? I know you fans will attack anyone who so much as glares at SC or the divine Chris Roberts but please re read my OP where I lay the blame at the creator of the board games feet and not on Chris or CIG.
See comment above for where you are trying to point the finger in a not too subtle way...
We all know why you posted it because you were not as subtle as you think you were.
Really? The sole purpose? I know you fans will attack anyone who so much as glares at SC or the divine Chris Roberts but please re read my OP where I lay the blame at the creator of the board games feet and not on Chris or CIG.
See comment above for where you are trying to point the finger in a not too subtle way...
We all know why you posted it because you were not as subtle as you think you were.
"but the creator seems to have been stealing art assets from deviantart. He's since edited the images to not show as much of the full body and to remove any full character shots from their facebook saying "they are taking care of it" but it seems pretty shitty to use someone else's work without credit to try and profit off it".
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
I pointed the finger squarely at the content creator who stole the art. You are free to think I was pointing the finger in a subtle way but I'm not subtle, I speak my mind and as a result I piss my coworkers off all the time because I don't give them the answer they want to hear. On these boards I will watch what I say so I don't get moderated but that's about it
I go a few weeks without checking this site and this is now a thing? Fuck's sake man if Chris Roberts is in the same country as an earthquake will we have posters asking if CIG blew backer money on a doomsday weapon?
"but the creator seems to have been stealing art assets from deviantart. He's since edited the images to not show as much of the full body and to remove any full character shots from their facebook saying "they are taking care of it" but it seems pretty shitty to use someone else's work without credit to try and profit off it".
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
I pointed the finger squarely at the content creator who stole the art. You are free to think I was pointing the finger in a subtle way but I'm not subtle, I speak my mind and as a result I piss my coworkers off all the time because I don't give them the answer they want to hear. On these boards I will watch what I say so I don't get moderated but that's about it
If that's you stance, that's fair tbh. Won't put words in your mouth, Think the problem is there are quite a few people in the thread who are trying to point fingers and you've been lumped in with them, which tends to happen a lot in SC threads
"but the creator seems to have been stealing art assets from deviantart. He's since edited the images to not show as much of the full body and to remove any full character shots from their facebook saying "they are taking care of it" but it seems pretty shitty to use someone else's work without credit to try and profit off it".
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
I pointed the finger squarely at the content creator who stole the art. You are free to think I was pointing the finger in a subtle way but I'm not subtle, I speak my mind and as a result I piss my coworkers off all the time because I don't give them the answer they want to hear. On these boards I will watch what I say so I don't get moderated but that's about it
If that's you stance, that's fair tbh. Won't put words in your mouth, Think the problem is there are quite a few people in the thread who are trying to point fingers and you've been lumped in with them, which tends to happen a lot in SC threads
There is always a lumping when it comes to SC threads. You could come in and post that you like to read while you poop and you would be shuffled into either the white knights or haters group ;p
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
They've promoted like 15+ different projects, including but not limited to, Elite Dangerous, Shroud of the Avatar, Rogue System, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Descent: Underground, EVERSPACE, Infinity: Battlescape, No Man's Sky, Star Traders, The Bard's Tale, Underworld Ascent, Crowfall, Golem Arcana, Torment: Tides of Numeria, etc.
Are you going to hold them responsible for trying to promote the growth of under-appreciated genres?
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
They've promoted like 15+ different projects, including but not limited to, Elite Dangerous, Shroud of the Avatar, Rogue System, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Descent: Underground, EVERSPACE, Infinity: Battlescape, No Man's Sky, Star Traders, The Bard's Tale, Underworld Ascent, Crowfall, Golem Arcana, Torment: Tides of Numeria, etc.
Are you going to hold them responsible for trying to promote the growth of under-appreciated genres?
It's great they promote under appreciated genres but perhaps when it comes to light that a project is using plagiarized art assets for almost everything shown in the KS campaign they should try to distance themselves. But seeing as the creator of the game is working for CIG then why bother since there's already a shit storm around SC
I've known David Ladyman for many years, and he's always been a pretty straight up guy. Certainly not a shenanigans type. No clue about the artist in question. And again, in my opinion Roberts is an overblown bozo, but this is not something I'd lay at his doorstep.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I've known David Ladyman for many years, and he's always been a pretty straight up guy. Certainly not a shenanigans type. No clue about the artist in question. And again, in my opinion Roberts is an overblown bozo, but this is not something I'd lay at his doorstep.
Why does David work for such an overblown bozo? Doesn't it get tiresome?
Basically David Ladyman (CEO Trader's Luck Games/Star Traders 2016) is working for CIG on Star Citizen, I do not know about the Deliverance devs though; I just guess they are not working for CIG.
"I’m putting together the monthly Jump Point e-magazine for subscribers, plus the brochures for each new ship premiere. When I say “put together,” I mean that everyone else gives me lots of good material, and I hammer it into something publishable."
He certainly has experience putting together good material that others "give" to him. However, you aren't responsible for what others do on their own time and that's why this thread is bullshit.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I've known David Ladyman for many years, and he's always been a pretty straight up guy. Certainly not a shenanigans type. No clue about the artist in question. And again, in my opinion Roberts is an overblown bozo, but this is not something I'd lay at his doorstep.
Why does David work for such an overblown bozo? Doesn't it get tiresome?
David worked for Steve Jackson, so he can work for anyone....
Probably decent pay at CIG for him, and those jobs do not grow on trees. But it likely does get tiresome.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Comments
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever since then"
from the Kickstarter page. This is an updated project of his and nothing more.
Think this would have been an interesting topic, if people didn't try to pin this on SC and ride the drama train
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Listen, ok, if you're going to refuse to make this about SC then your posts will be flagged *grin*
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I "could" accept it was just an updated version of the former game if he had not been using the game design to simulate future SC economy development (as per the video page 4), if he had not been displaying it at events with SC presentation over the last 4 months, if he had not included "branding" as concepts / personalities from SC...
Fine, if you want to call it "Star Traders 2016, Star Citizen Edition", I'd meet you half way. I will tell you, though, this game didn't get great reception, that release 30 years ago, and it would not get a percentage of the reception today had Ladyman not currently been a CIG employee and thus having Roberts promote/ "back" it. It does have Star Citizen written all over it, whether that is in actual print or not, it is being referenced as the "Star Citizen" board game, and it is an distinguishable, albeit covert, representation for the Star Citizen brand. Saying otherwise is intentionally obtuse, completely ignoring the obvious.
This is true. Perfect example of The Streisand Effect. He could come out better than he was before, for sure!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
On the SC homepage there is a single shout out for the Kickstarter
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15246-Note-From-The-Chairman
and two relevant sentences:
"..We don’t have any stake in Star Traders..",
"..They’ve also scattered some Star Citizen Easter eggs in the game itself… and even asked Sandi and I to appear as characters." --> but there are also references to Wing Commander, Star Wars, Asimov novels and other stuff from two dozen SF universes in the game according to the Kickstarter game.
On the Star Traders Kickstarter page you find some community support from the SC community at the end of the page (together with other supporting groups) and the backer packages get a free-add-on digital PDF blueprint for a ship (AEGIS Avenger type) because the Star Traders character "Maverick" (who looks like Chris ... with permission) uses a ship that looks like the Avenger (used with permission).
No where is there anything mentioned that calls this the "Star Citizen" board game. To the contrary, it is MUCH MUCH older as David Ladyman explains:
"Star Traders was designed (by me) and published by Steve Jackson Games almost 30 years ago. The rights returned to me about 10 years later, and I've wanted to release an updated, more polished version ever since then. Now, with the renaissance of board games and the arrival of Kickstarter, I have a chance to do just that"
Have fun
Out of all the things going on with Star Citizen, this has to be the least news worthy, point to debate yet. I guess it is a slow week for most of us.
You see, certain people on these boards have taken it upon themselves to hold CR personally accountable for this artwork issue. No matter what the facts or the info show they are on a mission to convince us that CR is the one at fault here.
This was the sole purpose of this thread.
We all know why you posted it because you were not as subtle as you think you were.
I laid the facts on the table. I wasn't attacking them, they were promoting it which anyone who reads the KS page can see and I wanted to know if people would hold them guilty by association.
I pointed the finger squarely at the content creator who stole the art. You are free to think I was pointing the finger in a subtle way but I'm not subtle, I speak my mind and as a result I piss my coworkers off all the time because I don't give them the answer they want to hear. On these boards I will watch what I say so I don't get moderated but that's about it
Are you going to hold them responsible for trying to promote the growth of under-appreciated genres?
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
He certainly has experience putting together good material that others "give" to him. However, you aren't responsible for what others do on their own time and that's why this thread is bullshit.
Probably decent pay at CIG for him, and those jobs do not grow on trees. But it likely does get tiresome.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.