I agree their is no winner in an MMO as it's designed to keep people playing. First to max level then to grind best gear which is a never ending cycle as new gear and content is constantly being added. After playing a game for years what do you have to show for it? New friends, good stories about what others did in game, a count of all the hours and money you spent on playing. Not to mention a slowed circulatory system from hours of sitting, and great hand eye coordination.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Dude you think thats bad. Virginia has a toll road that is pay to win. Its one of the most disgusting things I have seen in a while. So basically they produce bad roads then make you pay for the good roads. So if you aren't willing to pay a high toll you have to sit in heavy traffic.
This just sounds like a case of entitlement in the real world NOT P2W. Those who don't pay the toll feel entitled and should be allowed to use that toll road for free. Btw Virginia isn't the only place that has toll roads.
I didn't expect you to read the entire article but at least a few of the paragraphs. The toll price increases as traffic increases. So when you got heavy bumper to bumper traffic and its literally going to take you 2 hours to sit through it. Or you can pay 30$ toll for a 10 mile highway and avoid it. Can't you see how they can easily create traffic jams for the sole purpose of making that 10 mile highway sell better? I mean it won't be that hard to invent really bad flowing roads for the purpose of making drivers pay that extra price.
Now we jump to conpiracy theories...
Call it coincidence that their price gouging is making them countless millions at the expense of tax payers who they are suppose to be subject to. Or you can just blindly trust people who overcharge you for things.
It's not "overcharging" if it's a service people pay for. Just because you thinks it's some grand conspiracy doesn't mean everyone will.
You have to either be ...
1. Someone who does not own a car. 2. Someone who lives in the middle of nowhere and have never seen a toll road. 3. Someone who didn't even look at the article and is just blowing stuff out their ass.
I already told you Virginia is NOT the only place with toll roads, we have carpool lanes where I live that you have a to pay to use. I used to travel all across this country and have spent my fair share on toll roads. So yeah nice try. What you are upset aboutis a simple case of supply and demand..
Sure thing I guess if there is little demand for the toll road makes sense for them to charge 1.25 for entrance. Then during rush hour or anything that causes a ton of heavy traffic. IDK maybe like road work. They charge up to 30$. Thats called price gouging not supply and demand.
No it's called supply and demand. During rush hour or construction the (get ready) DEMAND is higher so they price it higher. It's the same with sport tickets. During the regular season tickets are $20 but come playoffs the ticket price goes up to $100. Why SUPPLY and DEMAND...it's rather simple. If you need more examples just ask I can give them to you all day.
The prices are higher because its the playoffs. If the world operated according to your theories. Then price gouging doesn't even exist. Yet somehow its illegal in just about every state. What they are doing on that particular toll road is price gouging.
How would you like showing up at the local restaurant and lets say they provide such a small area for normal customers. You gotta wait for an hour just before you can get a seat. But if you decide to go VIP then they have plenty of room with no waiting but the prices are 20x higher.
What if you were forced to use that restaurant and didn't have the option to go anywhere else? That is exactly what is happening at this toll. Its not like the customers have a choice they are forced into a situation where they either have to wait in traffic for 2 hours or avoid it by paying 30$. Yea if you cannot see how that is wrong....
Dude you think thats bad. Virginia has a toll road that is pay to win. Its one of the most disgusting things I have seen in a while. So basically they produce bad roads then make you pay for the good roads. So if you aren't willing to pay a high toll you have to sit in heavy traffic.
This just sounds like a case of entitlement in the real world NOT P2W. Those who don't pay the toll feel entitled and should be allowed to use that toll road for free. Btw Virginia isn't the only place that has toll roads.
I didn't expect you to read the entire article but at least a few of the paragraphs. The toll price increases as traffic increases. So when you got heavy bumper to bumper traffic and its literally going to take you 2 hours to sit through it. Or you can pay 30$ toll for a 10 mile highway and avoid it. Can't you see how they can easily create traffic jams for the sole purpose of making that 10 mile highway sell better? I mean it won't be that hard to invent really bad flowing roads for the purpose of making drivers pay that extra price.
Now we jump to conpiracy theories...
Call it coincidence that their price gouging is making them countless millions at the expense of tax payers who they are suppose to be subject to. Or you can just blindly trust people who overcharge you for things.
It's not "overcharging" if it's a service people pay for. Just because you thinks it's some grand conspiracy doesn't mean everyone will.
You have to either be ...
1. Someone who does not own a car. 2. Someone who lives in the middle of nowhere and have never seen a toll road. 3. Someone who didn't even look at the article and is just blowing stuff out their ass.
I already told you Virginia is NOT the only place with toll roads, we have carpool lanes where I live that you have a to pay to use. I used to travel all across this country and have spent my fair share on toll roads. So yeah nice try. What you are upset aboutis a simple case of supply and demand..
Sure thing I guess if there is little demand for the toll road makes sense for them to charge 1.25 for entrance. Then during rush hour or anything that causes a ton of heavy traffic. IDK maybe like road work. They charge up to 30$. Thats called price gouging not supply and demand.
No it's called supply and demand. During rush hour or construction the (get ready) DEMAND is higher so they price it higher. It's the same with sport tickets. During the regular season tickets are $20 but come playoffs the ticket price goes up to $100. Why SUPPLY and DEMAND...it's rather simple. If you need more examples just ask I can give them to you all day.
The prices are higher because its the playoffs. If the world operated according to your theories. Then price gouging doesn't even exist. Yet somehow its illegal in just about every state. What they are doing on that particular toll road is price gouging.
How would you like showing up at the local restaurant and lets say they provide such a small area for normal customers. You gotta wait for an hour just before you can get a seat. But if you decide to go VIP then they have plenty of room with no waiting but the prices are 20x higher.
What if you were forced to use that restaurant and didn't have the option to go anywhere else? That is exactly what is happening at this toll. Its not like the customers have a choice they are forced into a situation where they either have to wait in traffic for 2 hours or avoid it by paying 30$. Yea if you cannot see how that is wrong....
You are aware what you described in your restaurant analogy exist right? If you go to a night club for example you can wait in line or pay $1000 for bottle service (VIP) and get in right away. How can they charge that much for a bottle of vodka? Supply and demand. Again you are making the choice NOT to use to toll, clearly a lot of people are using the toll and are willing to pay for it no matter how much you think it's price gouging...go ahead a sue, let me know when you do it will be fun watching the case get thrown out.
I'll be glad once the genre collapses and is born anew with old school elements(Already is happening just 2-3 years is when the games release). Let the casual player base go play Mobas.
Is that just before hell freezes over, or afterwards ? Or do you have reliable sources showing that the genre is indeed collapsing and moving back to "old school" tedium ? Wishful thinking doesn't count as a reliable source, by the way.
Well technically without new games being made in the mold of wow... the WoW trend is dying as MMORPG are not growing or holding steady.
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
I'll be glad once the genre collapses and is born anew with old school elements(Already is happening just 2-3 years is when the games release). Let the casual player base go play Mobas.
Is that just before hell freezes over, or afterwards ? Or do you have reliable sources showing that the genre is indeed collapsing and moving back to "old school" tedium ? Wishful thinking doesn't count as a reliable source, by the way.
Well technically without new games being made in the mold of wow... the WoW trend is dying as MMORPG are not growing or holding steady.
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
Games might be defined by gameplay, but businesses are defined by the need to make profit (like, seriously, that's the actual definition of a business, literally).
So while you might think "If you don't have the time, then don't play", any businessman who's there for the business instead sees "If you don't have the time, you can pay."
Clearly enough people are choosing the latter for most MMORPG businesses to stay afloat.
(although most "P2W" games go a lot farther than that, to the point of "Even if you do have the time, you'd better pay to have a prayer of a chance." But that's where the whole "P2W brings in more money at the cost of player retention" thing in R2Games' business presentation comes in)
Dude you think thats bad. Virginia has a toll road that is pay to win. Its one of the most disgusting things I have seen in a while. So basically they produce bad roads then make you pay for the good roads. So if you aren't willing to pay a high toll you have to sit in heavy traffic.
This just sounds like a case of entitlement in the real world NOT P2W. Those who don't pay the toll feel entitled and should be allowed to use that toll road for free. Btw Virginia isn't the only place that has toll roads.
I didn't expect you to read the entire article but at least a few of the paragraphs. The toll price increases as traffic increases. So when you got heavy bumper to bumper traffic and its literally going to take you 2 hours to sit through it. Or you can pay 30$ toll for a 10 mile highway and avoid it. Can't you see how they can easily create traffic jams for the sole purpose of making that 10 mile highway sell better? I mean it won't be that hard to invent really bad flowing roads for the purpose of making drivers pay that extra price.
Now we jump to conpiracy theories...
Call it coincidence that their price gouging is making them countless millions at the expense of tax payers who they are suppose to be subject to. Or you can just blindly trust people who overcharge you for things.
It's not "overcharging" if it's a service people pay for. Just because you thinks it's some grand conspiracy doesn't mean everyone will.
You have to either be ...
1. Someone who does not own a car. 2. Someone who lives in the middle of nowhere and have never seen a toll road. 3. Someone who didn't even look at the article and is just blowing stuff out their ass.
I already told you Virginia is NOT the only place with toll roads, we have carpool lanes where I live that you have a to pay to use. I used to travel all across this country and have spent my fair share on toll roads. So yeah nice try. What you are upset aboutis a simple case of supply and demand..
Sure thing I guess if there is little demand for the toll road makes sense for them to charge 1.25 for entrance. Then during rush hour or anything that causes a ton of heavy traffic. IDK maybe like road work. They charge up to 30$. Thats called price gouging not supply and demand.
No it's called supply and demand. During rush hour or construction the (get ready) DEMAND is higher so they price it higher. It's the same with sport tickets. During the regular season tickets are $20 but come playoffs the ticket price goes up to $100. Why SUPPLY and DEMAND...it's rather simple. If you need more examples just ask I can give them to you all day.
The prices are higher because its the playoffs. If the world operated according to your theories. Then price gouging doesn't even exist. Yet somehow its illegal in just about every state. What they are doing on that particular toll road is price gouging.
How would you like showing up at the local restaurant and lets say they provide such a small area for normal customers. You gotta wait for an hour just before you can get a seat. But if you decide to go VIP then they have plenty of room with no waiting but the prices are 20x higher.
What if you were forced to use that restaurant and didn't have the option to go anywhere else? That is exactly what is happening at this toll. Its not like the customers have a choice they are forced into a situation where they either have to wait in traffic for 2 hours or avoid it by paying 30$. Yea if you cannot see how that is wrong....
You are aware what you described in your restaurant analogy exist right? If you go to a night club for example you can wait in line or pay $1000 for bottle service (VIP) and get in right away. How can they charge that much for a bottle of vodka? Supply and demand. Again you are making the choice NOT to use to toll, clearly a lot of people are using the toll and are willing to pay for it no matter how much you think it's price gouging...go ahead a sue, let me know when you do it will be fun watching the case get thrown out.
You are completely ignoring the fact that I said. What if you were forced to attend such a restaurant? Its not like those people have a choice of a different highway to use. But you do have a choice of what restaurant you want to attend. Which makes such practices with VIP rooms valid when the consumer has a choice. You also are ignoring the fact that the restaurant must provide service at the non-vip level or they lose customers. That highway doesn't lose customers because they don't have a choice. Yet again its about entrapment here not matter of choice.
Dude you think thats bad. Virginia has a toll road that is pay to win. Its one of the most disgusting things I have seen in a while. So basically they produce bad roads then make you pay for the good roads. So if you aren't willing to pay a high toll you have to sit in heavy traffic.
This just sounds like a case of entitlement in the real world NOT P2W. Those who don't pay the toll feel entitled and should be allowed to use that toll road for free. Btw Virginia isn't the only place that has toll roads.
I didn't expect you to read the entire article but at least a few of the paragraphs. The toll price increases as traffic increases. So when you got heavy bumper to bumper traffic and its literally going to take you 2 hours to sit through it. Or you can pay 30$ toll for a 10 mile highway and avoid it. Can't you see how they can easily create traffic jams for the sole purpose of making that 10 mile highway sell better? I mean it won't be that hard to invent really bad flowing roads for the purpose of making drivers pay that extra price.
Now we jump to conpiracy theories...
Call it coincidence that their price gouging is making them countless millions at the expense of tax payers who they are suppose to be subject to. Or you can just blindly trust people who overcharge you for things.
It's not "overcharging" if it's a service people pay for. Just because you thinks it's some grand conspiracy doesn't mean everyone will.
You have to either be ...
1. Someone who does not own a car. 2. Someone who lives in the middle of nowhere and have never seen a toll road. 3. Someone who didn't even look at the article and is just blowing stuff out their ass.
I already told you Virginia is NOT the only place with toll roads, we have carpool lanes where I live that you have a to pay to use. I used to travel all across this country and have spent my fair share on toll roads. So yeah nice try. What you are upset aboutis a simple case of supply and demand..
Sure thing I guess if there is little demand for the toll road makes sense for them to charge 1.25 for entrance. Then during rush hour or anything that causes a ton of heavy traffic. IDK maybe like road work. They charge up to 30$. Thats called price gouging not supply and demand.
No it's called supply and demand. During rush hour or construction the (get ready) DEMAND is higher so they price it higher. It's the same with sport tickets. During the regular season tickets are $20 but come playoffs the ticket price goes up to $100. Why SUPPLY and DEMAND...it's rather simple. If you need more examples just ask I can give them to you all day.
The prices are higher because its the playoffs. If the world operated according to your theories. Then price gouging doesn't even exist. Yet somehow its illegal in just about every state. What they are doing on that particular toll road is price gouging.
How would you like showing up at the local restaurant and lets say they provide such a small area for normal customers. You gotta wait for an hour just before you can get a seat. But if you decide to go VIP then they have plenty of room with no waiting but the prices are 20x higher.
What if you were forced to use that restaurant and didn't have the option to go anywhere else? That is exactly what is happening at this toll. Its not like the customers have a choice they are forced into a situation where they either have to wait in traffic for 2 hours or avoid it by paying 30$. Yea if you cannot see how that is wrong....
You are aware what you described in your restaurant analogy exist right? If you go to a night club for example you can wait in line or pay $1000 for bottle service (VIP) and get in right away. How can they charge that much for a bottle of vodka? Supply and demand. Again you are making the choice NOT to use to toll, clearly a lot of people are using the toll and are willing to pay for it no matter how much you think it's price gouging...go ahead a sue, let me know when you do it will be fun watching the case get thrown out.
You are completely ignoring the fact that I said. What if you were forced to attend such a restaurant? Its not like those people have a choice of a different highway to use. But you do have a choice of what restaurant you want to attend. Which makes such practices with VIP rooms valid when the consumer has a choice. You also are ignoring the fact that the restaurant must provide service at the non-vip level or they lose customers. That highway doesn't lose customers because they don't have a choice. Yet again its about entrapment here not matter of choice.
"Entrapment " "gouging" it's not a conspiracy pal it's simple supply and demand...and oh btw you don't have to DRIVE that road you can take a bus...there are options for you, you just rather complain then use them.
I'm curious if you p2wers would be cool with paying $100 to milton bradley so you always get a hotel on boardwark to start the game. Busy wage-earners have no time to be rolling dice and going around a board, after all.
How long does a play of Monopoly take..? Compared to for an example going from 1-100 with full blue gear in WoW... (and WoW is known to be pretty f.ing casual) or Getting a capitial ship in EvE...
But to answer your question...
Using base rules... No. Playing a version of the game where it is balanced around this. Sure.
But then again anyone actually playing monopoly should be taken out back and be sent packing.
I imagine a game of monopoly would take more time than most people on this forum spend on MMOs in a month.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Pay to win in mmo's with no gear cap are the most awfull...
BDO / Archeage for example are 2 very nice mmo's but you cant compete with credit warriors no matter how hard you grind.
I dont mind pay to win in games where the gear level are more easy to obtain and the balance between gear sets are not that far apart in stats.
I can understand that studio's need to make money, i can understand that people who work realy hard or have a well payed job cant put in long grinding sessions or 10 hours a day gameplay and want to pay to keep up. But like i said when the creditcard pulls away from even the most hardcore basement dwelling mmo fanatics with 16 hours a day gameplay who cant win then there is a serious flaw inside the economy and game balance.
Thats why i dont understand why these studio's dont open up 1 server without pay to win cashshops and just let people pay a subscription for 1 server for those people who dont like cashshops....
Man o man what a game BDO / Archeage would have become....
I'll be glad once the genre collapses and is born anew with old school elements(Already is happening just 2-3 years is when the games release). Let the casual player base go play Mobas.
Is that just before hell freezes over, or afterwards ? Or do you have reliable sources showing that the genre is indeed collapsing and moving back to "old school" tedium ? Wishful thinking doesn't count as a reliable source, by the way.
Well technically without new games being made in the mold of wow... the WoW trend is dying as MMORPG are not growing or holding steady.
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
Games might be defined by gameplay, but businesses are defined by the need to make profit (like, seriously, that's the actual definition of a business, literally).
So while you might think "If you don't have the time, then don't play", any businessman who's there for the business instead sees "If you don't have the time, you can pay."
Clearly enough people are choosing the latter for most MMORPG businesses to stay afloat.
(although most "P2W" games go a lot farther than that, to the point of "Even if you do have the time, you'd better pay to have a prayer of a chance." But that's where the whole "P2W brings in more money at the cost of player retention" thing in R2Games' business presentation comes in)
The changing of payment method over changing flawed gameplay was the easiest choice. Short term profits over long term sustainability of the genre. Business doesn't care about the health of the whole market but how much money it can make.
Of course the WoW demographic they chased doesn't even want/need MMORPG. Is it surpising they left to a streamed lined RTS genre which is probably where a lot of battlenet MMORPG players started their online gaming.
Except that the f2p Game's are still lasting years meaning they have longevity too.
I am not talking about games individually. I am talking about the genre. Games and game play models that should have died live on blocking new investment.
Think of it this way. Studios aren't funding new games because new ideas are risky and very similar failed WoW killers still saturate the market. Those games are propped up by a very small minority with Cash Shops. Those games otherwise would have died freeing up comsumers for new investment.
When you add in P2W you get players even more turned off by the game and even genre because most people like fair games with their integrity intact.
The old days are gone folks, if game companies did not offer a way to buy ingame currency, the whales would just go to gold seller sites and buy it there. That makes game even worse because you have the gold farmers ruining the economy and camping all the best money making spots.
Personally, I dont mind a game selling game-money for real dollars, I understand the need to do that and I dont consider that p2w. I do have issues with games where a person can go to the cash shop and buy the things he needs to max out his gear like charms and scrolls without it involving other players.
I like BDO because you can buy an outfit and sell it in the auction house, if no one wants that outfit, you wasted your money and even if you do sell it, you dont get a whole lot of ingame money for it. Someone in the game needs to help you convert that money, your money needs to help someone else in the game get something they want.
The BDO cash shop has NOTHING in it that makes you a stronger player and selling things from it helps other players. I can not say that about many games out there.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Western studios aren't funding new games and I would say it is more because it is easier to make profits from other types of games. MMORPG games have always been notoriously difficult to make. Other places are.
Those failed wow killers are still making a lot of money with healthy populations.
There are more people playing now then ever before. Just not the same old games.
Face it. By and large gamers have embraced free to play.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I'll be glad once the genre collapses and is born anew with old school elements(Already is happening just 2-3 years is when the games release). Let the casual player base go play Mobas.
Is that just before hell freezes over, or afterwards ? Or do you have reliable sources showing that the genre is indeed collapsing and moving back to "old school" tedium ? Wishful thinking doesn't count as a reliable source, by the way.
Well technically without new games being made in the mold of wow... the WoW trend is dying as MMORPG are not growing or holding steady.
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
Won't telling players not to play limit the profits in that game causing the Devs to struggle to maintain the game and possibly causing the game to close so no one plays?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
All in all, part of the whole point of selling a video game is getting people to buy it to play. So "Don't whatever? (don't like it? Don't have the time? etc) Don't play." is really something no developer in their right business mind should ever say.
Not that it stopped some of them. With typically disastrous results, Wildstar being a good example.
I'll be glad once the genre collapses and is born anew with old school elements(Already is happening just 2-3 years is when the games release). Let the casual player base go play Mobas.
Is that just before hell freezes over, or afterwards ? Or do you have reliable sources showing that the genre is indeed collapsing and moving back to "old school" tedium ? Wishful thinking doesn't count as a reliable source, by the way.
Well technically without new games being made in the mold of wow... the WoW trend is dying as MMORPG are not growing or holding steady.
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
Won't telling players not to play limit the profits in that game causing the Devs to struggle to maintain the game and possibly causing the game to close so no one plays?
Developers wouldn't. This is the argument that you should bypass gameplay with money because you don't have time. My view if you don't have time for a hobby get a new one. Just like if I couldn't afford a hobby I would get a new one.
But sure developers will take that money but it also chases off money like mine. That's why I am not investing hundreds or thousands into a P2W MMO. Not mention my view on the integrity of the game.
P2W is neither bad nor good. It is a business model that describes how the game makes money. Aggressive P2W models that create unfair gameplay is bad, but so can P2P games that create unfair gameplay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
don't want P2W? Bring back subscriptions for MMO's
Sooner you give up hope on this the happier you will be.
I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
I disagree. I think the industry is simply not willing to go out on a limb to create a game that offer what a subscription game would. People know what value looks like and will pay for it if it's really there. The problem is most games expect high returns on low investment and the only way to get that is to nickle-and-dime people in cheap (mostly mobile) P2P games.
Western studios aren't funding new games and I would say it is more because it is easier to make profits from other types of games. MMORPG games have always been notoriously difficult to make. Other places are.
Those failed wow killers are still making a lot of money with healthy populations.
There are more people playing now then ever before. Just not the same old games.
Face it. By and large gamers have embraced free to play.
I am not denying any of that. Its not about what players have accept. Its more about the long term cconsequences. You don't think vast amounts free games doesnt make it harder in a hard to make genre?
F2P creates a market where a fraction of players controls the trend and benefits the most Everyone else is on board for the free ride which is bottom of the barrel entry level. Even those making quality games still have to deal with the free entry level of the competition.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
How would you like showing up at the local restaurant and lets say they provide such a small area for normal customers. You gotta wait for an hour just before you can get a seat. But if you decide to go VIP then they have plenty of room with no waiting but the prices are 20x higher.
What if you were forced to use that restaurant and didn't have the option to go anywhere else? That is exactly what is happening at this toll. Its not like the customers have a choice they are forced into a situation where they either have to wait in traffic for 2 hours or avoid it by paying 30$. Yea if you cannot see how that is wrong....
My view on pay 2 win is that if you don't have the time than don't play. Games are defined by gameplay.
So while you might think "If you don't have the time, then don't play", any businessman who's there for the business instead sees "If you don't have the time, you can pay."
Clearly enough people are choosing the latter for most MMORPG businesses to stay afloat.
(although most "P2W" games go a lot farther than that, to the point of "Even if you do have the time, you'd better pay to have a prayer of a chance." But that's where the whole "P2W brings in more money at the cost of player retention" thing in R2Games' business presentation comes in)
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
BDO / Archeage for example are 2 very nice mmo's but you cant compete with credit warriors no matter how hard you grind.
I dont mind pay to win in games where the gear level are more easy to obtain and the balance between gear sets are not that far apart in stats.
I can understand that studio's need to make money, i can understand that people who work realy hard or have a well payed job cant put in long grinding sessions or 10 hours a day gameplay and want to pay to keep up.
But like i said when the creditcard pulls away from even the most hardcore basement dwelling mmo fanatics with 16 hours a day gameplay who cant win then there is a serious flaw inside the economy and game balance.
Thats why i dont understand why these studio's dont open up 1 server without pay to win cashshops and just let people pay a subscription for 1 server for those people who dont like cashshops....
Man o man what a game BDO / Archeage would have become....
Of course the WoW demographic they chased doesn't even want/need MMORPG. Is it surpising they left to a streamed lined RTS genre which is probably where a lot of battlenet MMORPG players started their online gaming.
Think of it this way. Studios aren't funding new games because new ideas are risky and very similar failed WoW killers still saturate the market. Those games are propped up by a very small minority with Cash Shops. Those games otherwise would have died freeing up comsumers for new investment.
When you add in P2W you get players even more turned off by the game and even genre because most people like fair games with their integrity intact.
Personally, I dont mind a game selling game-money for real dollars, I understand the need to do that and I dont consider that p2w. I do have issues with games where a person can go to the cash shop and buy the things he needs to max out his gear like charms and scrolls without it involving other players.
I like BDO because you can buy an outfit and sell it in the auction house, if no one wants that outfit, you wasted your money and even if you do sell it, you dont get a whole lot of ingame money for it. Someone in the game needs to help you convert that money, your money needs to help someone else in the game get something they want.
The BDO cash shop has NOTHING in it that makes you a stronger player and selling things from it helps other players. I can not say that about many games out there.
Those failed wow killers are still making a lot of money with healthy populations.
There are more people playing now then ever before. Just not the same old games.
Face it. By and large gamers have embraced free to play.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Not that it stopped some of them. With typically disastrous results, Wildstar being a good example.
But sure developers will take that money but it also chases off money like mine. That's why I am not investing hundreds or thousands into a P2W MMO. Not mention my view on the integrity of the game.
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I know, some indie titles are promising to be sub only, just a fast train to bankruptcy for most of them.
The world changed, there's little chance of going back.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I am not denying any of that. Its not about what players have accept. Its more about the long term cconsequences. You don't think vast amounts free games doesnt make it harder in a hard to make genre?
F2P creates a market where a fraction of players controls the trend and benefits the most Everyone else is on board for the free ride which is bottom of the barrel entry level. Even those making quality games still have to deal with the free entry level of the competition.