[Caspian - Today at 9:35 PM @Rahl Draikskorn Ⓥ Unless my attorney says otherwise, we're not going to stop you.]
Interesting. Not a done deal, just an option being looked into at this point. So it may not happen anyways...
For his sake, I hope Gdemami is not his attorney.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
WoW IP Permabans gold sellers and everyone realm has thousands of them spamming....... if a multi-billion dollar title cannot stop them what can a single million dollar company do? It's a waste of resources.
They can't even spam in CoE.....everything is proximity. So your gonna spam to about 5 people then probably get dropped because OPEN PVP.
Slapshot's constant slander is unreal. Do you not have a life.
You sure you know what the word slander means?
Slapshot posted something that was true, they are not going to fight RMT.
He also said it was a game about resource and territory control. Again true.
So where was the slander?
Whats funny is that one of the highly Tiered players (Tier 11 King) actually had to explain that... TWICE to the guy (because he referenced this thread there to continue the rant). It was actually fairly amusing:
For it to be defamation the statement in question has to be false and presented as fact rather than opinion. The important points here is that the commenters MMORPG.com, especially in the linked thread, have stated a true fact - that SbS isn't gonna hunt down RMTs and have stated their opinions - that this is a bad thing to do. Nowhere have they written anything defamatory, which even if they had would be libellous, not slanderous. People who get shit wrong like this and then spout off about it make the community look dumb. If you're going to accuse someone of a rather serious crime please at least know what you're trying to accuse them of. ----- Actually, I read the thread quite carefully before posting, the only defamatory statement in that thread is the one accusing the OP of slander, everything else is covered under the opinion defence. Their opinions may be misinformed, and you and I may disagree with them but the statements they make are valid and non-defamatory. -----
Kudos to the guy, who while obviously a big supporter (with I assume at least $10,000 invested) was able to provide some much needed sanity over there.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I registered an account to discuss one thing with the haters.
Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons.
Why are you still following the game? A year ago you were moaning about it, yet you follow the forums more than me a baron pledged fan does. (By the way I'm giving my barony away before anyone moans I am ptw) Why? Why are you still watching it indepth
If you hate the game and developers as much as your posts make it sound like you why do you follow it so indepth.
Is it more your a fan of the game but you want to try and force a small developer to make a game of your wishes rather than the game they are planning to make?
Because I can tell you it won't work.
Instead why don't you either watch, wait and see or stop calling on a game you obviously don't like and move on to find a game you want to play. Or If there is no game that's your ideal do what the creators of soulbound did, form your own game company and make the game of your dreams???
@Ordanska so presumably you got banned last time, hence the new account?
"brought to my attention ..... for all the wrong reasons"
So are you some sort of official hall monitor or prefect charge by someone to ensure the good behavior of all us plebes who have the audacity to talk about CoE without permission and in a derogatory way?
Apologies for my sarcasm, but you are coming across, to me at least, as a complete and utter joke.
Caspian: Hey Folks, Let me go ahead and put this topic to bed. The forum post on MMORPG was a copy/paste from a forum post here on our forums from back in December (6 months ago). It was cleverly posted to look like a recent discussion when in fact it was not. As to the original post here on our forums, that was a quote from a conversation happening in Discord that was taken out of context, and probably shouldn't have been posted to the forums in the first place - at least not without more context. That said, I think the community members that have responded to this thread have done a fantastic job putting the the thread into the original context, which is this: Gold/Item sellers exist because they can. You can address the problem one of two ways: 1) Accept that the design of your game allows/encourages gold farmers, and then spend countless resources trying to track them down and enforce a ToS. or 2) Address the problem of gold farming via the design and mechanics of your game. The problem with #1 is that for a game to encourage item/gold farming it must both provide an opportunity cost for choosing to achieve your goals the "right" way, vs. purchasing through third party sellers, and it must prevent the in-game players from dealing with gold farmers. Our goal has always been to address the problem of gold/item selling by by giving players a way to deal with gold-sellers in-game, and by structuring the economy and system of progression such that gold-farming in its usual sense holds little value in CoE. If you're not convinced, think about the activities most gold-farmers would perform in order to "farm gold" and ask yourself whether those activities make any sense in this game. At the point where farming becomes the most effective way to "farm," it's no longer an issue and is just part of the economy.
Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting. That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.
Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question. I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.
*Edit* If you want to hate COE that's your choice, that doesn't bother me. But following a game for a year whilst hating seems strange. That's like eating sprouts for a year whilst saying you don't like them...
Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting. That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.
Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question. I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.
How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?
Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting. That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.
Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question. I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.
How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?
Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.
Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.
Seems to me like you are perfectly fine with spending your valuable time trashing a person. What is it about protecting a game that makes you feel like it's more legitimate?
I spent a small amount of time asking a question, please note I did not defend coe. I made no comment on what Caspian said, what i came here for is to ask one member why he follows a game he hates.....
I spent a small amount of time asking a question, please note I did not defend coe. I made no comment on what Caspian said, what i came here for is to ask one member why he follows a game he hates.....
Whenever he wakes up, I'm sure he'll tell you.
It still begs the question based on your previous response: why are you spending your own life wondering why he is spending his life attacking a game? After all, you accused him of following a game he hated. Why would you act like he was being ridiculous with his time when you are guilty of spending your time attacking someone that doesn't like a game?
I've spent time following the game that I'm going to enjoy and in fact I'm already enjoying being a part of the community.
My verbiage about you caring was sarcasm. Obviously you care deeply:
"I registered an account to discuss one thing with the haters. Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons."
You literally registered an account to rebut the OP by trying to say he spends too much of his life not liking a game.
You can't label someone a groupie because they ask a legitimate question. I didn't defend the devs or mention the game.
I asked why you, someone who hates on the game all the time (you have never said anything good about it) follows it so much. In fact you follow it so in depth that you access your friends account to see the "secret forums" and break the NDA....
Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting. That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.
Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question. I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.
How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?
Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.
Wait what? You are only here to tell someone to stop following a game you like. You even admitted that last time you were busy making rant posts that got you banned when you had a new baby in real life.
You obviously don't understand what its like with a new child. There was plenty if nights that when I had settled her and was ensuring she did not wake back up that I had time to browse the forums.
I'm not here to tell him to stop. Read my post again where did I tell him to stop????
I asked why he bothered if he hated the game.
Now I remember why I got annoyed last time, people here don't fully readwhat someone posts and then take what was said out of context.
*edit* And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here. What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....
You obviously don't understand what its like with a new child. There was plenty if nights that when I had settled her and was ensuring she did not wake back up that I had time to browse the forums.
I'm not here to tell him to stop. Read my post again where did I tell him to stop????
I asked why he bothered if he hated the game.
Now I remember why I got annoyed last time, people here don't fully readwhat someone posts and then take what was said out of context.
*edit* And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here. What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....
That happens every where, especially on news sites like this one. Hahaha that is true about getting banned for defending your self, but that kinda calmed down here, at least I haven't been banned in a long time. On my other account one of the forum moderators use to follow me, and ban me for posting almost anything. This website definitely isn't the bastion of free speech if you were expecting that one. It is one of the better ones I have been to, though some of the forum moderators if you piss them off might ban you just for fun haaha. You might be less likely to get banned, if you give MMOrpg.com money I would imagine. Guess Mmorpg.com is pay 2 win
The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.
Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.
The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely.
If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone". People have this strange conceit that if they don't like something, it must mean there's something wrong with it, even when others are enjoying it just fine.
As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "*We've* grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'me', because that's really what is being said.
It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.
It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.
Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.
Why is that?
People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures, or whatever a given session involved... and enjoying the experience as it came.
Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!". Their entire experience is spent on worrying about what happens at the end and that they're not getting there fast enough.
People back in the first and second gen weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry. MMORPGs were a long-term hobby, not a race to a finish line, and they were enjoying themselves.
It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.
The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.
Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.
The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely. If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone".
As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "We've grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'we', because that's really what is being said.
It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.
It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.
Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.
Why is that?
People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures.. and enjoying the experience as it came.
Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!".
People weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry.
It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.
Great post.
Just a couple of things...
I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.
As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.
As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays.
Thanks!
And about Kano.. well, okay then I guess that explains their point-of-view. I've never had the pleasure of sharing a MMO with them - at least not to my knowledge, so I've never had that experience . Though, I'm sure I've gamed with "a Kano" many, many times before - the genre's quite populated with people sharing that point-of-view.
But yeah, the whole "people have grown up and don't have time they used to" is just incredibly short-sighted and ridiculously off the mark. I eye-roll every time I see someone make that argument. It's one of those things that gets thrown around a lot, and sounds good on its face, until you stop and think about it more deeply, with some historical context... then it falls apart.
Social media - twitter, facebook, instagram etc....
Steam, GoG etc...
Online Console games
F2P online game explosion
Smartphones
Mobile games
Go look at market research on how much less focused and dedicated to a single video game masses are today compared to 10+ years ago
Night and day difference
People will jump on a new trend and will jump ship in several weeks - -the impact of social media and smartphones has been huge.
Dont trust me - go pay eedar to show you their player trends over the years.
Moot.
There's always been plenty of things vying for people's time and attention. It hasn't suddenly changed because now a lot of it is online/on computers. Playing games, watching a movie, going out with friends, working out, reading a book, etc. etc. etc... it all boils down to what you choose to spend your time doing at any given point. Through our entire lives, there are things vying for our attention, time and money.
You seem to assume that one has an interest in any or all of those things in the first place.
Also, you're forgetting that people can multi-task, and do multiple things at once quite easily these days. For example, you could be playing a MMO, have facebook open in a browser window, Twitter in another, and be checking your smartphone at the same time, while Netflix is streaming in the background.
You're also arguing completely around the point, and trying to shift the goal-post. You posted about people not having time to play games, MMOs specifically, like they used to because they're grown up, have families and jobs and less time. That's what I was responding to. All the rest of what you just posted has nothing to do with that. Please don't deflect. Thank you.
The point is how much time you have to dedicate to playing a MMO has no bearing on how you choose to approach that particular activity. The point is many people playing EQ1, DAoC, UO and such were also grown-ups with jobs, families, careers and limited time to play. Yet, they played and enjoyed the game on its terms. They didn't insist the games be moulded specifically for them because they grew up and became an adult.
The point is... It has nothing to do with "people growing up". It has to do with people growing more impatient and self-entitled.
Comments
For his sake, I hope Gdemami is not his attorney.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Whats funny is that one of the highly Tiered players (Tier 11 King) actually had to explain that... TWICE to the guy (because he referenced this thread there to continue the rant). It was actually fairly amusing:
For it to be defamation the statement in question has to be false and presented as fact rather than opinion. The important points here is that the commenters MMORPG.com, especially in the linked thread, have stated a true fact - that SbS isn't gonna hunt down RMTs and have stated their opinions - that this is a bad thing to do. Nowhere have they written anything defamatory, which even if they had would be libellous, not slanderous.
People who get shit wrong like this and then spout off about it make the community look dumb. If you're going to accuse someone of a rather serious crime please at least know what you're trying to accuse them of.
-----
Actually, I read the thread quite carefully before posting, the only defamatory statement in that thread is the one accusing the OP of slander, everything else is covered under the opinion defence. Their opinions may be misinformed, and you and I may disagree with them but the statements they make are valid and non-defamatory.
-----
Kudos to the guy, who while obviously a big supporter (with I assume at least $10,000 invested) was able to provide some much needed sanity over there.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons.
@Slapshot1188
Why are you still following the game?
A year ago you were moaning about it, yet you follow the forums more than me a baron pledged fan does. (By the way I'm giving my barony away before anyone moans I am ptw)
Why? Why are you still watching it indepth
If you hate the game and developers as much as your posts make it sound like you why do you follow it so indepth.
Is it more your a fan of the game but you want to try and force a small developer to make a game of your wishes rather than the game they are planning to make?
Because I can tell you it won't work.
Instead why don't you either watch, wait and see or stop calling on a game you obviously don't like and move on to find a game you want to play.
Or
If there is no game that's your ideal do what the creators of soulbound did, form your own game company and make the game of your dreams???
"brought to my attention ..... for all the wrong reasons"
So are you some sort of official hall monitor or prefect charge by someone to ensure the good behavior of all us plebes who have the audacity to talk about CoE without permission and in a derogatory way?
Apologies for my sarcasm, but you are coming across, to me at least, as a complete and utter joke.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/18980/a-quick-heads-up-about-mmorpgcom-forum?page=8#post202514
Let me go ahead and put this topic to bed. The forum post on MMORPG was a copy/paste from a forum post here on our forums from back in December (6 months ago). It was cleverly posted to look like a recent discussion when in fact it was not.
As to the original post here on our forums, that was a quote from a conversation happening in Discord that was taken out of context, and probably shouldn't have been posted to the forums in the first place - at least not without more context.
That said, I think the community members that have responded to this thread have done a fantastic job putting the the thread into the original context, which is this:
Gold/Item sellers exist because they can. You can address the problem one of two ways:
1) Accept that the design of your game allows/encourages gold farmers, and then spend countless resources trying to track them down and enforce a ToS.
or
2) Address the problem of gold farming via the design and mechanics of your game.
The problem with #1 is that for a game to encourage item/gold farming it must both provide an opportunity cost for choosing to achieve your goals the "right" way, vs. purchasing through third party sellers, and it must prevent the in-game players from dealing with gold farmers.
Our goal has always been to address the problem of gold/item selling by by giving players a way to deal with gold-sellers in-game, and by structuring the economy and system of progression such that gold-farming in its usual sense holds little value in CoE.
If you're not convinced, think about the activities most gold-farmers would perform in order to "farm gold" and ask yourself whether those activities make any sense in this game.
At the point where farming becomes the most effective way to "farm," it's no longer an issue and is just part of the economy.
Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting.
That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.
Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question.
I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.
*Edit*
If you want to hate COE that's your choice, that doesn't bother me. But following a game for a year whilst hating seems strange.
That's like eating sprouts for a year whilst saying you don't like them...
How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?
Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.
Seems to me like you are perfectly fine with spending your valuable time trashing a person. What is it about protecting a game that makes you feel like it's more legitimate?
Whenever he wakes up, I'm sure he'll tell you.
It still begs the question based on your previous response: why are you spending your own life wondering why he is spending his life attacking a game? After all, you accused him of following a game he hated. Why would you act like he was being ridiculous with his time when you are guilty of spending your time attacking someone that doesn't like a game?
So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...
Obviously you don't care, while he does.
I've spent time following the game that I'm going to enjoy and in fact I'm already enjoying being a part of the community.
My verbiage about you caring was sarcasm. Obviously you care deeply:
"I registered an account to discuss one thing with the haters.
Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons."
You literally registered an account to rebut the OP by trying to say he spends too much of his life not liking a game.
Awesome!
Another groupie!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I asked why you, someone who hates on the game all the time (you have never said anything good about it) follows it so much. In fact you follow it so in depth that you access your friends account to see the "secret forums" and break the NDA....
Wait what?
You are only here to tell someone to stop following a game you like.
You even admitted that last time you were busy making rant posts that got you banned when you had a new baby in real life.
You are the very definition of a hypocrite.
I'm not here to tell him to stop. Read my post again where did I tell him to stop????
I asked why he bothered if he hated the game.
Now I remember why I got annoyed last time, people here don't fully readwhat someone posts and then take what was said out of context.
*edit*
And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here.
What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....
That happens every where, especially on news sites like this one. Hahaha that is true about getting banned for defending your self, but that kinda calmed down here, at least I haven't been banned in a long time. On my other account one of the forum moderators use to follow me, and ban me for posting almost anything. This website definitely isn't the bastion of free speech if you were expecting that one. It is one of the better ones I have been to, though some of the forum moderators if you piss them off might ban you just for fun haaha. You might be less likely to get banned, if you give MMOrpg.com money I would imagine. Guess Mmorpg.com is pay 2 win
If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone". People have this strange conceit that if they don't like something, it must mean there's something wrong with it, even when others are enjoying it just fine.
As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "*We've* grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'me', because that's really what is being said.
It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.
It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.
Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.
Why is that?
People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures, or whatever a given session involved... and enjoying the experience as it came.
Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!". Their entire experience is spent on worrying about what happens at the end and that they're not getting there fast enough.
People back in the first and second gen weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry. MMORPGs were a long-term hobby, not a race to a finish line, and they were enjoying themselves.
It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.
Great post.
Just a couple of things...
I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.
As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Thanks!
And about Kano.. well, okay then I guess that explains their point-of-view. I've never had the pleasure of sharing a MMO with them - at least not to my knowledge, so I've never had that experience
But yeah, the whole "people have grown up and don't have time they used to" is just incredibly short-sighted and ridiculously off the mark. I eye-roll every time I see someone make that argument. It's one of those things that gets thrown around a lot, and sounds good on its face, until you stop and think about it more deeply, with some historical context... then it falls apart.
Moot.
There's always been plenty of things vying for people's time and attention. It hasn't suddenly changed because now a lot of it is online/on computers. Playing games, watching a movie, going out with friends, working out, reading a book, etc. etc. etc... it all boils down to what you choose to spend your time doing at any given point. Through our entire lives, there are things vying for our attention, time and money.
You seem to assume that one has an interest in any or all of those things in the first place.
Also, you're forgetting that people can multi-task, and do multiple things at once quite easily these days. For example, you could be playing a MMO, have facebook open in a browser window, Twitter in another, and be checking your smartphone at the same time, while Netflix is streaming in the background.
You're also arguing completely around the point, and trying to shift the goal-post. You posted about people not having time to play games, MMOs specifically, like they used to because they're grown up, have families and jobs and less time. That's what I was responding to. All the rest of what you just posted has nothing to do with that. Please don't deflect. Thank you.
The point is how much time you have to dedicate to playing a MMO has no bearing on how you choose to approach that particular activity. The point is many people playing EQ1, DAoC, UO and such were also grown-ups with jobs, families, careers and limited time to play. Yet, they played and enjoyed the game on its terms. They didn't insist the games be moulded specifically for them because they grew up and became an adult.
The point is... It has nothing to do with "people growing up". It has to do with people growing more impatient and self-entitled.