What if a player character needs to maintain at least some positive favor/reputation with a deity of the player's choice or else the character needs to spend some time in a sort of purgatory before the character can be resurrected? The length of time and number of duties/quests or w/e to be performed based on how far into the negative the character's favor has sunk with the character's principal deity?
That would work just like "prison", as long as there's no way out of it. An "escape" is an "escape clause."
But how does this fit in with a Faction based game where a player gets rewarded from his "evil Faction" for doing the same thing? This is one of the sticking points for me.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
I would say that if the game is based on combat then that is the part players would expect to build upon. If I played a game about farming I would not expect to be able to harvest 15 fields of the most difficult crops I would instead expect to start with a single row of corn and work my way up from there.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
I would say that if the game is based on combat then that is the part players would expect to build upon. If I played a game about farming I would not expect to be able to harvest 15 fields of the most difficult crops I would instead expect to start with a single row of corn and work my way up from there.
An MMORPG need not be so limited in scope. An MMORPG could allow a player to play as a soldier, adventurer, farmer, merchant, tradesman, horse-breeder, shop-keeper, and various other things. All with different ways to progress and increase their wealth, power, and influence.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
I think it is partly because combat power is a way to gate PvE content. You don't want people to start killing lich king which is supposely the final boss. There are games that try to twitch the problem with resistance on gear for specific situation.
Obviously there are already other power in the game. Wealth power, the ability to buy anything. Freedom power, the power to go to areas that were previously locked. Power to customize your character's look. Power to switch your character's build.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
I would say that if the game is based on combat then that is the part players would expect to build upon. If I played a game about farming I would not expect to be able to harvest 15 fields of the most difficult crops I would instead expect to start with a single row of corn and work my way up from there.
An MMORPG need not be so limited in scope. An MMORPG could allow a player to play as a soldier, adventurer, farmer, merchant, tradesman, horse-breeder, shop-keeper, and various other things. All with different ways to progress and increase their wealth, power, and influence.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
I think it is partly because combat power is a way to gate PvE content. You don't want people to start killing lich king which is supposely the final boss. There are games that try to twitch the problem with resistance on gear for specific situation.
Obviously there are already other power in the game. Wealth power, the ability to buy anything. Freedom power, the power to go to areas that were previously locked. Power to customize your character's look. Power to switch your character's build.
You don't need a final boss in the kind of game I'm talking about. If a Lich King is killed, another Lich could rise up to take his place. Even a player that chose to play as an Undead or a player that became Undead while making certain choices during play.
Wealth is definitely a form of power. However, wealth is usually primarily used to acquire more Combat Power in the vast majority of MMORPGs. Might also buy homes, mounts, cosmetic items, etc., but nothing that really effect the game world.
Customizing your character's look is more an option than a power. Having to pay real money to change your character's appearance is pretty crazy. Everquest 2 let you do it for free. Though maybe you should be required to have your character employ the services of wizard who could cast a permanent polymorph (change shape) spell on your character. Again switching your character's build is more an option than a power. And, if your skills, abilities, and talents were allowed to regress because you didn't use them enough, you could then train different skills, abilities, and talents.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Ultimately I think it’s a basic necessity for any game claiming rpg-like status. The only time it’s a real problem is if a high level player can ruin a low level players game time (namely pvp) or if new players coming in late have no one else to play with.
It's actually not a necessity for MMORPGs. There are other ways to progress besides acquiring more combat power (hp, mp, physical/mental attributes, stats related to combat, etc.). There can be a game with limited/realistic combat power gaps between veterans and noobs while still offering an advantage to those have played longer (invested more time and/or money). Horizontal progression could allow players to unlock more options for their characters while characters could achieve higher social, economic, political, and military ranks. Social status, wealth, political influence, and the number of NPC retainers/subordinates under a PC's command could be major factors in the game.
A game could also allow for skills, abilities, and talents to atrophy/regress if they are not used enough. Social status, wealth, political influence, and military rank could also be reduced or lost based on the player's decisions and actions. Levels of Reputation, Renown, Infamy, and Influence would be very important. Just as they are in the real world.
Character development is one of the backbones upon which role playing games were created. For mmorpgs the reason I feel it’s necessary is longevity of play. People tend to invest more time when it benefits them or they get something out if it and power is the most desirable. If the game does not have pvp then the size of the gap is almost irrelevant, but if it does then it shouldn’t be too big. Darkfall Online is a good example I like to give where the grind to high level was absolutely insane, but good players could do well with relatively young characters. Skip ahead to rise of Agon where they reduced the grind to a few weeks and people quickly stopped playing as much. Sure you can add more things to do, but intimately players lean toward becoming more powerful as the ultimate incentive to keep playing.
Why must combat power be the end-all be-all in an MMORPG?
If players benefit from other forms of power in a game, and the systems in which those powers are used are interesting/intriguing/exciting, then players should be able to adjust their mindset. Besides, it doesn't seem like any MMORPG has ever tried to do exactly what I'm talking about.
It doesn't have to be, but I've said in the past there are few reasons people make games and in this scenario there would need to be a developer that wants this type of game or a company that has data backing up a desired support for it enough to warrant the cost. I personally know from my past experience playing MMORPGs that it was the character progression that drove me forward the most and kept me playing for a long time.
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
It seems like you're not understanding somehow. I've said a couple times that the player character's are progressing. It's just that the player characters are also progressing in different ways besides combat power. Making the ability to increase combat power limited will make for much more enjoyable, more fair, and more balanced PVP game. IMHO.
Oh I understood perfectly fine. What I'm trying to say is that "power" is what drives players more than anything and keeps them interested. They continue to work toward more power.
There's two things about that. First, a game cannot keep up with the constant need for content that is required. Second, I think a lot of gamers are getting tired of the same old thing. Even the new content just isn't working like it used to. Look at WoW. They gained a bunch of subs with "Classic", then lost those plus more. Even with their new expansion they are bleeding subs. Down from before Classic, even after N'Zoth was released.
How do you know how long it would take to make a game like that?
But
anyway, even if a game like that is too advanced or would require too much
time or money to produce right now, a game could allow Player Characters
to hire & acquire NPC soldiers, mercenaries, farmers, tradesmen,
animal breeders, etc. Players could also hire themselves as caravan guards to
merchants and help the merchant safely bring his caravan to a certain
city. I know they have events kind of like that in GW2, but a PC (player character) doesn't actually get hired by the merchant, and no contract exists
between a PC and the merchant. Neither does a PC gain
or lose reputation based on my success or failure.
A PC could also be able to pay less at certain shops in settlements/towns/cities based
on his/her reputation with a faction. Training costs might be lowered. Access to
certain special locations, buildings, and NPCs could be given to those
with higher reputation in a faction. Gaining favor with a faction could
also unlock the ability to have NPCs accompany a PC or be sent to a PC's aid. Though this ability would have a cool-down timer. The PC could request aid, but then the cool-down timer would be longer.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I really don't think your game would appeal to as many people as you think. Just my opinion.
Why?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
1) I don't see much reason for PCs (Player Characters) to be able to fast travel unless they're in a party or raid group. PCs could be able to acquire an item that allowed them to summon party members (if they are the leader of a party or group). Of course, mages and priests could also learn a spell/prayer/ability that would enable them to summon party members/teleport/open gateways.
2) Guilds/Mini-Factions could be able to earn the ability to build a structure (Portal/Gateway) that allowed their members to fast travel to certain locations.
3) There could be some sort of structures that exist at certain locations (ancient pillars/monuments/sites where magic power has concentrated by chance/randomly or through some sort of intelligent design, gateways of some sort). These could require someone in the party who had a particular item, the ability to read magic script, or the ability to read/decipher ancient languages (or a specific ancient language) in order to be used. Besides mages and priests, some rogues (thieves/treasure hunters and bards) might have a more limited ability to decipher ancient tongues if they chose and practiced/upgraded this skill.
4) PCs might also be able to place Markers at certain locations in order to enable to them to fast travel to somewhere they've already visited. But I don't think that a party or raid group should be able to teleport to the entrance of a dungeon/raid or inside of it the first time. Getting there/fighting their way there is half the fun. Some dungeons might also have guards outside the entrance which need to be dealt with/killed/disabled or sneaked past first.
5) Some temples/shrines/otherwise holy/unholy sites might also have portals to certain locations which priests or faithful followers of a deity could be permitted to use.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
MMORPGs based on Final Fantasy/Dragon Warrior/Everquest/World of
Warcraft all feature out of control vertical progression and are totally
gear-dependent. The ultimate goal in all these of games boils down to
the personal quest for wealth and power. In order to gain more wealth
and power. Rinse and Repeat, Ad Infinitum. Players have very little
incentive to help others or even speak to others unless those others are
somehow aiding them in their endless quest for wealth and power.
Guilds exist mainly to make the quest for gaining wealth and power
faster and easier. Especially Raiding Guilds. However, in the end,
there's not much the player can do with his or her vast sums of wealth
and god-like power except for to seek even more wealth and power. By
doing the same things the player did to gain that wealth and power in
the first place.
It's all an illusion. The levels, mobs, and gear all become
stronger/more powerful from one zone/area/dungeon to the next in order
to give us an illusion of progression.
True the
mob AI/mechanics may become more complex and challenging as we rise in level, but
dealing with that and overcoming it depends on the skill level of the
individual player or group. So, you could say that the only real
progression in these games is the rise in our own skill (hopefully) at
playing the game. Learning and eventually mastering all the features,
systems, and mechanics.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
This is really the core part of MMO's.
There needs to be a sense of progression. If my character is not in effect improving, why are we playing to start with?
So totally agree with you on this one man.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
This is really the core part of MMO's.
There needs to be a sense of progression. If my character is not in effect improving, why are we playing to start with?
So totally agree with you on this one man.
Ah, MMORPGs based solely around Combat Power/Gear Progression. It's so much fun to incrementally progress in Combat Power, finally acquire an incrementally better piece of shiny new gear, or earn some sort of Combat Bonus/Boon after investing many, many long hours of gameplay at Max Level. This style of progression never ceases to amuse and entertain, let me tell you. Doing the same things over and over in an endless cycle of mind-numbing repetition is what MMORPG End Games are all about. Never allow anyone to tell you differently.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
This is really the core part of MMO's.
There needs to be a sense of progression. If my character is not in effect improving, why are we playing to start with?
So totally agree with you on this one man.
Ah, MMORPGs based solely around Combat Power/Gear Progression. It's so much fun to incrementally progress in Combat Power, finally acquire an incrementally better piece of shiny new gear, or earn some sort of Combat Bonus/Boon after investing many, many long hours of gameplay at Max Level. This style of progression never ceases to amuse and entertain, let me tell you. Doing the same things over and over in an endless cycle of mind-numbing repetition is what MMORPG End Games are all about. Never allow anyone to tell you differently.
That is indeed what MMORPGs are, crafting, exploration, looks, all of it is a form of progress by repeating certain tasks, its most definitely not just combat or better gear, it is all of it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
How about criminal and villainous PKers being hunted down by NPC soldiers or assassins of whatever faction or factions with whom they've earned a significant amount of disfavor? What about the possibility of earning the wrath of certain deities (perhaps those worshiped by the player characters he or she has slain) and being hounded by supernatural subordinates of those deities?
I don't know, truly. Would it be enough to deter you?
Punishment needs to fit the crime. The PKer just took possible hours of gameplay from their victim. They need to suffer likewise, in my eyes. As long as PKers can keep playing the game, there is no punishment.
PS: Are you aware of the "quote" button? It's much easier to follow multiple conversations
But it's supposed to be "play" punishment.
If a game has player killing then it's meant to be there. I really like his suggestions as they fit with game play.
Because if a player is really to be punished then why have the feature at all? It would be far easier for developers to not have player killing.
The punishment should be enough to dissuade but not enough to seem like the developers are hitting the players' hands with a ruler. Because again, "don't include player killing" if that's the route they are to go.
Yes, we want to discourage players from endlessly abusing other players, but we don't want to discourage them from playing criminals or villains.
NPC or PC?
Why must players be villains and criminals to other players?
Why can't they be?
A skilled player is almost always going to be more challenging and unpredictable then an AI-controlled NPC or Mob.
In this society of "victimhood", you want to put that in MMORPGs?
As I said to Iselin, I'm not against the idea, but wonder about the plausibility of it all.
PS: After more thought, I wanted to add... Unfortunately, your preferred desire (OWPvP) is ruined by others who don't want this for the same reasons. It is much like many old-school MMORPG players that want to play, but can't because it's been spoiled by others desiring something completely different.
I really do feel for you and would love to see you find an MMRPG home
MMORPGs can help players that they don't need to be victims forever (okay, for as long as they're physically alive).
Let's say my character's village was raided by Orcs when he was a small child. His parents were slain, along with all the other villagers and he just happened to be the lone survivor. As he wandered away from the ruins into the surrounding wilderness, he was found by a traveling priest. The priest led the child to a temple of the priest's deity. (Some kind of god or goddess of light, truth, and justice. Doesn't matter what gender the deity is. Plus I never really thought about it until now.) Given the opportunity, the child was given religious & military/combat training. Showing an aptitude for both, the now young man was then chosen to be trained as a Paladin. After completing his training, he set sail from Maj'Dul to Qeynos where he would be then have been appointed a position or given a mission, according to the needs of his order at the time. However, his ship was blown off course by a heavy storm. Shipwrecked on Erollis in the Frostfang Sea, the young Paladin was forced to begin his journey in an unknown and hostile land.
Eventually, this young man became known as Knight Captain <First Name...Last Name>, Destroyer of Orcs.
(Notes: EQ2 allows a player to choose a last name for his/her character after reaching lvl 20. Earning the tile "Destroyer" of any race requires a character to kill 10k of that type.)
So, if a player is able to find his'/her courage, determined to move forward, and capable of making consistent efforts, then his/her status as a victim should be reduced if not eliminated. A drastic change of circumstances and even a complete reversal of fortune is certainly not impossible for those who refuse to lose hope and continue to struggle on no matter what the odds.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
There absolutely are. But the same principle applies. Swinging sword or carving a piece of wood or building a house or even some kind of diplomacy. When I'm at Mid to max level I want the content I was doing as a noob to be excessively trivial. this at least gives the illusion that I am becoming more powerful in whatever I'm working on
This is really the core part of MMO's.
There needs to be a sense of progression. If my character is not in effect improving, why are we playing to start with?
So totally agree with you on this one man.
Ah, MMORPGs based solely around Combat Power/Gear Progression. It's so much fun to incrementally progress in Combat Power, finally acquire an incrementally better piece of shiny new gear, or earn some sort of Combat Bonus/Boon after investing many, many long hours of gameplay at Max Level. This style of progression never ceases to amuse and entertain, let me tell you. Doing the same things over and over in an endless cycle of mind-numbing repetition is what MMORPG End Games are all about. Never allow anyone to tell you differently.
That is indeed what MMORPGs are, crafting, exploration, looks, all of it is a form of progress by repeating certain tasks, its most definitely not just combat or better gear, it is all of it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How about Reputation/Influence/Favor with Factions and Deities? How about Provincial/Regional Renown & Infamy? How about Social, Economic, Political, and Military Ranks? How about being able to own Property/Land and Buy/Build more kinds of structures than homes/mansions? How about being able to hire & acquire NPC Retainers & Subordinates?
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
Will those have gaps?
"Power Gaps" as used here, usually refers to combat, since that is the number one activity most MMOs provide. These other kinds of power will also suffer from gaps, right?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
Personally, and as the most outspoken proponent of "lower power gaps", I am not saying that a maxed out character shouldn't be considerably more powerful than a newb.
It's a question of how much more powerful.
IN many games, if a maxed out character hits a mid level character, how many times over did they just kill that guy?
Powerful enough to grief newbies?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I actually like big power gaps. Now I don't care if there is a huge gap between me and another player. But I do want a huge power gap between the character I was when I started and the character I after many days, weeks, months of successfully progressing.
But there are other forms of power besides combat power.
Will those have gaps?
"Power Gaps" as used here, usually refers to combat, since that is the number one activity most MMOs provide. These other kinds of power will also suffer from gaps, right?
Personally I hate wealth gaps. I say tax the hell out of them
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
But how does this fit in with a Faction based game where a player gets rewarded from his "evil Faction" for doing the same thing? This is one of the sticking points for me.
Once upon a time....
So, if character power is the biggest draw, then that's what company's will make. If a developer wants to make an mmo without player character power increases then thats their choice.
How do you know for certain that most players just want more combat power? If true, perhaps that's because that's the only kind of power they're offered in the vast majority, 90%+ or more, of MMORPGs that actually matters. Wealth and Combat Power. With Wealth being a form Power that generally allows a Player Character to gain more Combat Power. If players were offered the possibility of gaining other forms of Power in the game that actually mattered and effected their Character and the Game World, then perhaps players might be interested in gaining these other forms of Power as well.
An MMORPG need not be so limited in scope. An MMORPG could allow a player to play as a soldier, adventurer, farmer, merchant, tradesman, horse-breeder, shop-keeper, and various other things. All with different ways to progress and increase their wealth, power, and influence.
Obviously there are already other power in the game. Wealth power, the ability to buy anything. Freedom power, the power to go to areas that were previously locked. Power to customize your character's look. Power to switch your character's build.
First, a game cannot keep up with the constant need for content that is required.
Second, I think a lot of gamers are getting tired of the same old thing.
Even the new content just isn't working like it used to.
Look at WoW. They gained a bunch of subs with "Classic", then lost those plus more.
Even with their new expansion they are bleeding subs. Down from before Classic, even after N'Zoth was released.
Once upon a time....
Why?
There needs to be a sense of progression. If my character is not in effect improving, why are we playing to start with?
So totally agree with you on this one man.
Ah, MMORPGs based solely around Combat Power/Gear Progression. It's so much fun to incrementally progress in Combat Power, finally acquire an incrementally better piece of shiny new gear, or earn some sort of Combat Bonus/Boon after investing many, many long hours of gameplay at Max Level. This style of progression never ceases to amuse and entertain, let me tell you. Doing the same things over and over in an endless cycle of mind-numbing repetition is what MMORPG End Games are all about. Never allow anyone to tell you differently.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
How about Reputation/Influence/Favor with Factions and Deities? How about Provincial/Regional Renown & Infamy? How about Social, Economic, Political, and Military Ranks? How about being able to own Property/Land and Buy/Build more kinds of structures than homes/mansions? How about being able to hire & acquire NPC Retainers & Subordinates?
"Power Gaps" as used here, usually refers to combat, since that is the number one activity most MMOs provide. These other kinds of power will also suffer from gaps, right?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED