Originally posted by vendris Those of you who are claiming that those of us who don't like wow only dislike it because we're trying to be cool by hating what is mainstream really, really need to get over yourselves.
I stated very clearly already why I no longer enjoy it: they took a game that is clearly designed for easy, casual play, with simple game mechanics, an mmo-lite (nothing wrong with that!) and then tried to mix it in with "hardcore" gameplay like 40 person raids in instances that can take several hours to clear. Combining simplistic game mechanics with long, drawn out, repetitive gameplay is, for me, boring. It's that simple.
WoW started going downhill when Blizzard lost their original focus on creating an accessable, scaled down MMO that could be played casually. Now, it's a mishmash of casual and hardcore ideas that weren't put together well and the upper levels of the game (Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, AQ, Zul Gurub, etc) are a tedious mix of boredom and frustration.
I pretty much agree with this post. But I don't exactly dislike WoW. I dislike the current crop of designers becasue I think they are allowing one aspect of the game to screw up many other aspects of the game. All in all it was a quite good game. However it is now becoming so out of whack that I have to honestly say its kind of a bad game. It like a car with one tire gone flat. You can say but look it has 3 good tires, but that doesn't really matter its still drives like crap. I have a hard time saying WoW is bad because it did have 3 good tires but the one bad tire messes up the 3 good tires so you just wind up with something bad. But basicaly its the current Devs not really the game itself.
I can't say I hate WoW, in fact I'm rather ambivalent. I can say I no longer have any respect for the WoW devs, in fact I think they are somewhat incompetent.
This situation is pretty frustrating for many because its almost a good game, but in reality is a bad game. So close yet so far. Most people won't really accept the reality of it so they rail against even while they are still paying for it. Therefore you get alot of disgruntled negative posts.
you have three groups: 1) people who hate what's on top 2) people who genuinely dislike it for various reasons 3) disgruntled current and former players
Originally posted by ladylore Originally posted by beautyisin Popular equates to bad, simple really. And that exact same silly counter argument is used over and over and over and over. This train of throught is apparently quite popular. And it really is bad logic. Wait a minute...so maybe there IS some sense to this theory after all!
Very clever, But for some popular does equate to bad others the opposite, it has nothing to do with being cool. I would use an analogy between music and games, just because Backstreet Boys get to the top of the charts it doesn't mean they are better than bands who sell less, it means that they cater to an audience. As does WoW, of which the audience is almost identical apart from sex. Do Mcdonalds make better food than upmarket restaurants? A resounding no, in my opinion popular generally = Bad. In closing, I think most people are rebeling against both Wow's philosophy and fan base.
Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
Most likely because at level 60 WOW changes from a questing game, to a raiding game. That's basically all you can do at level 60, which is very very boring.
P.S. Did you say "community is good"? WHOOOAAAHHHAHHAHAAA.. Please stop. My side hurts. It's a bunch of people running around solo or 2 up doing quests. There is NO community.
Originally posted by Tymora Originally posted by ownth3c0w I am looking through ratings in games and all I see is "WoW is a waste of money","WoW is the most stupid game I have ever sen!", "This game will definately blow WoW out of the water"... and so on.
I play WoW, and I think it is really good. Graphics are corny, but easy to play with. Community is good from what I have seen. Grinding is fun! (Yes, it is.)
I just want to know.. what is it with people against WoW these days?
I enjoyed playing World of Warcraft. I return to play occasionally. I like the mmorpg, but I am looking for a little different experience when it comes to mmorpgs. I like a difficult mmorpg, some may call hardcore, although I am not a hardcore gamer. I appreciate Everquest and the more hardcore features like the death penalty, corpse runs, etc.
I am looking forward to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which sounds like it will be exactly what I am looking for, but I gladly play WoW sometimes and have fun with it.
It amuses me when people call EQ hardcore. Those death penalties were so tame compared to some MUD's. You could lose 10 out of 70 levels in one death on my old MUD, days and days worth of playing time. It was always awesome when you died and then the server crashed before you got back to your corpse and you lost all your items and money. So friggign sweet. At least we had Lucky the Leprechaun compensate us with money sometimes. Good ol' Lucky. I'm not sure where EQ people got such an inflated opinion, but it is amusing.
Its funny, I have no desire for death penalties, but maybe that is because I am so conditioned to fear death from years worth of playign that MUD. I played every moment in WoW the same way I played that MUD, always trying to minimize and avoid death. Trying to play smart and cautious. I just didn't have to sit around for days trying to buy an amulet of life protection because leaving a safe city wasn't worth the risk of dying.
But looking at some other people they just rush around like idiots. I dunno I have absolutely no desire for a death penalty, but at the same time it seems that having might reduce the amount of idotic play.
Anyway death penalties add nothing for me, I always hate to die. I dunno maybe they do add some kind of good effect to a game in total. Personally they are just annoying ot me. Maybe we should just hire people to merciless beat new MMO player each time they die until they play smart so the rest of us don't need to be punished. Once we are all condiitioned properly we won't need hokey in game mechanics.
Unfortunatly you really cant go by user ratings, because if someone either doesnt like the game or jumps on the anti game band wagon, they will give the game the lowest ratings as possible. For instance giving WoW a score of 1, which is the lowest score on things such as graphics, gameplay, sound, roleplay etc.....
And if you look at any good review of the game by magazines or good websites, WOW always scores in the 90% area. To each there own,..
Ill give you my review of the game, in which is completely unbiased.
I played WOW for 8-9 months when it first came out, and I enjoyed it alot. I thought the quests where well thought out, the leveling was not that tedious, the dungeons where awesome and the pvp was very good and fast paced, plus I also enjoyed the graphics.
The reason I quit was because of time issues, because once I capped at level 60 most of my guild friends where constantly doing high end EQ type raids in which could take up alot of time. Not to mention they where doing it on Saturday afternoons, in which I really like to have my afternoons open and not restricted to a game.
So in English, the game after 60 is cool, if you have alot of time to do raids and raid pvp for gear. But once you hit 60, the game isnt as casual as it was from levels 1-60. So I highly recommend the 1-59 game to anyone, I dont think there is a better game at the moment that has a better game until top level as WOW, just my opinion, but keep in mind at the end when it hits 60, the casual game is gone.
Originally posted by ladylore Originally posted by beautyisin Popular equates to bad, simple really. And that exact same silly counter argument is used over and over and over and over. This train of throught is apparently quite popular. And it really is bad logic. Wait a minute...so maybe there IS some sense to this theory after all!
Very clever, But for some popular does equate to bad others the opposite, it has nothing to do with being cool. I would use an analogy between music and games, just because Backstreet Boys get to the top of the charts it doesn't mean they are better than bands who sell less, it means that they cater to an audience. As does WoW, of which the audience is almost identical apart from sex. Do Mcdonalds make better food than upmarket restaurants? A resounding no, in my opinion popular generally = Bad. In closing, I think most people are rebeling against both Wow's philosophy and fan base.
Hee heh, your good points are well taken.
Actually, thinking about what you say here more, I agree with you to a certain extent. Let me go on to admit that, it is true, WoW's popularity DOES make me sick. It is no where *near* being the best MMORPG ever, yet the fact that it is the most successful to date DOES indeed irk me big time. I personally don't feel that I dislike the game because it is popular, I dislike the fact that it is popular even though it isn't that great of a game.
But popularity in itself can't really equate to bad. I don't like McDonald's much, but are the 2 billion+ people served that they claim all just retards who like to eat cheap crap because torturing themselves is fun...or do they really enjoy it? And if they enjoy it, it can't really be all THAT bad just because *I* don't like it, can it?
I know alot of the haters dont like the way other companys are trying to emulate the gameplay, to get a slice of the wow pie. Basically, these companys are dumbing down their games to attract the wow player. Alot of the wow players are ('were' is probably more correct) casual gamers. This is causing an overlapping of gamestyle preferences. Old time mmorpgers are getting pushed to the side for the casual gamer design style in the mad rush for wow type subscriptions. The best example is SWG with the terrible combat upgrades. There is really nothing the core gamer can do I guess this causes alot of resentment to wow. In my opinion, thats a part of it.. Anyway, mmorpgs will get more complicated. It's just a blip. It's like the mmorpg train has slowed down to let on a large amount of people but is struggling to get the momentum going again. Remember, people were happy to play pacman and pong for hours on end at one point..
Hate WoW? hmm... The main reason is that WoW is mostly blizzards fan base which is made up of young teenagers ranging from 10-17 years of age. This fanbase has been marked as immature uncooperative and very very rude. This community is what makes up the game of WoW. In no other mmo (to my knowledge) would the designers choose to make ctf a part of the game. I played WoW like everyone else. It was AMAZINGLY FUN to 60. I am not gonna lie. The pvp was alot of fun for awhile, but like many other of todays mmos it just didn't have the end game content I was looking for. People hate WoW cause they played to 60 and realized there is little end game content but endlessly doing instance dungeons and grinding for more gear.
I don't think its a hate issue. I bought the game but it only took me a week to realized the game wasnt for me. I cancelled and walked away but I dont hate the game or want to bash it. Alot of people enjoy WOW, its their first MMORPG and its ok. Being a veteran (Early Ultima Online Player), I expect more nowadays. But it all honesty, I can't understand why its so popular. It doesnt really offer any new or that we havent seen already. As far as I'm concerned, MMOPRGS have taken a step back and at this time I only play Ultima Online (friends server pre-trammel). I did like SWG early on but nothing really interests me right now.
I don't have anything against blizzard, its a good company and they have made some nice quality products without screwing with the player base like SOE did with SWG. Maybe its not hate, just jealousy or like myself, just can't understand the hype
I think the broken relationship is always a factor too.
it's quite easy to hate a game you've fallen out with. It's like hating your Ex girlfriend, despite the fact that you obviously thought she was the greatest thing ever at one stage, when it's over it's over.
An MMO can be quite an emotional commitent, hating it when you leave is a good self defence mechanism.
Wow is also very hyped. So you could buy the gaming expecting a free trip to the moon, and find out all you got is just another fantasy MMO muchly similar to all the others.
Originally posted by Archaos Originally posted by Eindrachen
Why ask a question you don't really want the answer to?
Uh, I believe the OP asked because he did in fact want an answer.
Except he stated that he already loved WOW and thought it was great. Asking people why they do not like it usually is the opening of an attack on that person's reasons for not liking the game.
This was no innocent question, this was a rhetorical one. It was only meant to stir up the pot some, get folks arguing about WOW.
Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
Originally posted by varius Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
you should learn the diffrence between a fact and an oppinnion. yes I do find WoW the best mmorpg currently out there. and you know what? I didn't like Ultima Online Pre-Trammel ONE BIT. many people play WoW because its a fun experience, something UO Pre-trammel could not deliver me. but ofcourse, what do I know? I don't share YOUR oppinnion, so I'm ignorrant and a fanboy
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if Item loss is supposed to make the game harder, then I will remain my stance that there is NO mmorpg in the world that gives the player a challenge.
you're completely right i guess.
taking and holding land/cities/keeps/outposts is EXACTLY the same challenge as farming MC.
oh wait, you can FARM mc... but you can't farm taking over a city, or keeping a city. you fight, get the blood going, hope someone makes a mistake your side can capitalize on while also hoping your side doesn't make a mistake that will be taken advantage of...
oh, i'm sorry, MC is hard the first couple of times you attack a boss; then it becomes that much more farmable.
but taking over or defending a city is NEVER the same. different allies, different enemies, different strategies...
i see how you're totally right.
item/xp loss too~!! you're completely right there also. i'm starting to see why you chose "gameloading", cuz it's not fully loaded yet, is it?
so in wow, everyone runs around helter skelter cuz it DOESN'T matter if you die. who cares, you lost 3 minutes out of the hours you're playing~!! this promotes idiotic and suicidal playing, no thought required, no penalties incurred. why are you mad i died? nothing bad happened. oh we wiped and have to start the instance over? so? what else were you going to do for the next six hours other than this instance?
versus, losing a sword, having to get a craftsman to hook you up with a new one. versus mining and maybe a little hunting for other parts and making your own. versus even looting a few items from your fallen foes, so the NEXT time you die, you have a spare? oh wait, that requires thought, action, it's too hard. i understand, loading. it's still loading. give it time, a few more years maybe and it'll be fully loaded. doubt it, but hey, what do i know? i think that a dynamic, changing environment is much more challenging than a static, stale, farmable environment which is farmed by everyone and their mother who wants to spend a bazillion hours farming it.
take sign, sit down.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by varius Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
you should learn the diffrence between a fact and an oppinnion. yes I do find WoW the best mmorpg currently out there. and you know what? I didn't like Ultima Online Pre-Trammel ONE BIT. many people play WoW because its a fun experience, something UO Pre-trammel could not deliver me. but ofcourse, what do I know? I don't share YOUR oppinnion, so I'm ignorrant and a fanboy
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by varius Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
you should learn the diffrence between a fact and an oppinnion. yes I do find WoW the best mmorpg currently out there. and you know what? I didn't like Ultima Online Pre-Trammel ONE BIT. many people play WoW because its a fun experience, something UO Pre-trammel could not deliver me. but ofcourse, what do I know? I don't share YOUR oppinnion, so I'm ignorrant and a fanboy
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by varius Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
you should learn the diffrence between a fact and an oppinnion. yes I do find WoW the best mmorpg currently out there. and you know what? I didn't like Ultima Online Pre-Trammel ONE BIT. many people play WoW because its a fun experience, something UO Pre-trammel could not deliver me. but ofcourse, what do I know? I don't share YOUR oppinnion, so I'm ignorrant and a fanboy
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
LMAO. swykac
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by varius Simply put, WoW is an incredible time sink that makes you think you're having fun when all you're really doing is working. You spend time grinding to level 60, which isnt much fun. Then you spend time getting respectable gear to gain admission to a good raiding guild. Again, not fun, but necessary. Finally you spend the rest of your days raiding over and over and over with your guild, simply to get weapons and armor that has a special color on its name. PvPing is even worse. It's nearly impossible to get the best PvP gear without PvPing at least 5 hours a day every day for no less than three months. WoW isnt fun. So many people play WoW simply because its so "newbie" friendly and caters not to MMORPG veterans, but former WC3 and Diablo 2 players that are willing to buy whatever games Blizzard churns out. Simply put, WoW is Diablo 3 w/ forced grouping. Anyone who thinks WoW is the best MMORPG ever made is either too young to have played true MMO's (Ultima Online pre-trammel), ignorant, or a blind Blizzard fanboy. I'm not trying to offend any WoW players here, but its incredibly arrogant to claim that anyone who speaks badly of WoW is doing so because it's "cool to hate the popular game". WoW is popular for the wrong reasons, and maybe one day the 6-and-some-odd million people who play it will realize that.
you should learn the diffrence between a fact and an oppinnion. yes I do find WoW the best mmorpg currently out there. and you know what? I didn't like Ultima Online Pre-Trammel ONE BIT. many people play WoW because its a fun experience, something UO Pre-trammel could not deliver me. but ofcourse, what do I know? I don't share YOUR oppinnion, so I'm ignorrant and a fanboy
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
Not trying to start a war. But how can you play a game like Lineage 2 that is 100% about risk and reward and not have liked pre trammel UO, when trammel was released the risk was gone from UO, and Lineage 2 is a very risky game considering if you drop a peice of gear?
Originally posted by darktravesty We hate it because it's a piece of crap effectivly marketed to morons who constantly talk about it and call all other MMOs crap.
Exactly. Anyone who is happy playing WoW can go on ahead and keep playing WoW. Let them be ignorant. The reason so many people "greatly dislike" WoW is that there are so many MMO noobs who are playing WoW as their first MMO, who have never played Ultima Online or Shadowbane or Lineage or whatever, and they act as if they know all there is to know about MMOs. They think WoW is great simply because they are too stupid and ignorant to give any other games a try. The more they talk, the more they piss off real MMO gamers, which leads to the understandably large community of "WoW haters".
Originally posted by varius Originally posted by darktravesty We hate it because it's a piece of crap effectivly marketed to morons who constantly talk about it and call all other MMOs crap.
Exactly. Anyone who is happy playing WoW can go on ahead and keep playing WoW. Let them be ignorant. The reason so many people "greatly dislike" WoW is that there are so many MMO noobs who are playing WoW as their first MMO, who have never played Ultima Online or Shadowbane or Lineage or whatever, and they act as if they know all there is to know about MMOs. They think WoW is great simply because they are too stupid and ignorant to give any other games a try. The more they talk, the more they piss off real MMO gamers, which leads to the understandably large community of "WoW haters".
nicely stated, good point.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by varius Originally posted by darktravesty We hate it because it's a piece of crap effectivly marketed to morons who constantly talk about it and call all other MMOs crap.
Exactly. Anyone who is happy playing WoW can go on ahead and keep playing WoW-k they probaly will-. Let them be ignorant. The reason so many people "greatly dislike" WoW is that there are so many MMO noobs -dam the mmo king has spoken all hail his eliteness- who are playing WoW as their first MMO, who have never played Ultima Online -almost 10 years old and 2d- or Shadowbane-a game on digital life support that will thankfully soon die- or Lineage- well if your talking about part 2 yeah its not bad once you get past the insane grind,botters,gankers but castle raids get old- or whatever, and they act as if they know all there is to know about MMOs-grind,group,raid,tradeskill,pvp whats hard to understand ?-. They think WoW is great simply because they are too stupid and ignorant to give any other games a try-or they just have fun playing the game-. The more they talk, the more they piss off real MMO gamers-and god only knows people like me that have playing since 99 without playing pvp much are not real mmo gamers,dam pvp nazis-, which leads to the understandably large community of "WoW haters".-just look back to what i said on the first page of this thread-
i personally hate WoW because last year i was bullyed by 9 people and they all played WoW , i personally have never played it and never will purely becuase off the reason i dont wont to like a single thing they like or be a single bit like them but hey this is just me tellin you why *I* hate WoW
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)
Comments
I can't say I hate WoW, in fact I'm rather ambivalent. I can say I no longer have any respect for the WoW devs, in fact I think they are somewhat incompetent.
This situation is pretty frustrating for many because its almost a good game, but in reality is a bad game. So close yet so far. Most people won't really accept the reality of it so they rail against even while they are still paying for it. Therefore you get alot of disgruntled negative posts.
you have three groups:
1) people who hate what's on top
2) people who genuinely dislike it for various reasons
3) disgruntled current and former players
#3 has grown dramatically over the last 8 months.
Very clever,
But for some popular does equate to bad others the opposite, it has nothing to do with being cool. I would use an analogy between music and games, just because Backstreet Boys get to the top of the charts it doesn't mean they are better than bands who sell less, it means that they cater to an audience. As does WoW, of which the audience is almost identical apart from sex. Do Mcdonalds make better food than upmarket restaurants? A resounding no, in my opinion popular generally = Bad.
In closing, I think most people are rebeling against both Wow's philosophy and fan base.
P.S. Did you say "community is good"? WHOOOAAAHHHAHHAHAAA.. Please stop. My side hurts. It's a bunch of people running around solo or 2 up doing quests. There is NO community.
I enjoyed playing World of Warcraft. I return to play occasionally. I like the mmorpg, but I am looking for a little different experience when it comes to mmorpgs. I like a difficult mmorpg, some may call hardcore, although I am not a hardcore gamer. I appreciate Everquest and the more hardcore features like the death penalty, corpse runs, etc.
I am looking forward to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which sounds like it will be exactly what I am looking for, but I gladly play WoW sometimes and have fun with it.
It amuses me when people call EQ hardcore. Those death penalties were so tame compared to some MUD's. You could lose 10 out of 70 levels in one death on my old MUD, days and days worth of playing time. It was always awesome when you died and then the server crashed before you got back to your corpse and you lost all your items and money. So friggign sweet. At least we had Lucky the Leprechaun compensate us with money sometimes. Good ol' Lucky. I'm not sure where EQ people got such an inflated opinion, but it is amusing.
Its funny, I have no desire for death penalties, but maybe that is because I am so conditioned to fear death from years worth of playign that MUD. I played every moment in WoW the same way I played that MUD, always trying to minimize and avoid death. Trying to play smart and cautious. I just didn't have to sit around for days trying to buy an amulet of life protection because leaving a safe city wasn't worth the risk of dying.
But looking at some other people they just rush around like idiots. I dunno I have absolutely no desire for a death penalty, but at the same time it seems that having might reduce the amount of idotic play.
Anyway death penalties add nothing for me, I always hate to die. I dunno maybe they do add some kind of good effect to a game in total. Personally they are just annoying ot me. Maybe we should just hire people to merciless beat new MMO player each time they die until they play smart so the rest of us don't need to be punished. Once we are all condiitioned properly we won't need hokey in game mechanics.
Unfortunatly you really cant go by user ratings, because if someone either doesnt like the game or jumps on the anti game band wagon, they will give the game the lowest ratings as possible. For instance giving WoW a score of 1, which is the lowest score on things such as graphics, gameplay, sound, roleplay etc.....
And if you look at any good review of the game by magazines or good websites, WOW always scores in the 90% area. To each there own,..
Ill give you my review of the game, in which is completely unbiased.
I played WOW for 8-9 months when it first came out, and I enjoyed it alot. I thought the quests where well thought out, the leveling was not that tedious, the dungeons where awesome and the pvp was very good and fast paced, plus I also enjoyed the graphics.
The reason I quit was because of time issues, because once I capped at level 60 most of my guild friends where constantly doing high end EQ type raids in which could take up alot of time. Not to mention they where doing it on Saturday afternoons, in which I really like to have my afternoons open and not restricted to a game.
So in English, the game after 60 is cool, if you have alot of time to do raids and raid pvp for gear. But once you hit 60, the game isnt as casual as it was from levels 1-60. So I highly recommend the 1-59 game to anyone, I dont think there is a better game at the moment that has a better game until top level as WOW, just my opinion, but keep in mind at the end when it hits 60, the casual game is gone.
Very clever,
But for some popular does equate to bad others the opposite, it has nothing to do with being cool. I would use an analogy between music and games, just because Backstreet Boys get to the top of the charts it doesn't mean they are better than bands who sell less, it means that they cater to an audience. As does WoW, of which the audience is almost identical apart from sex. Do Mcdonalds make better food than upmarket restaurants? A resounding no, in my opinion popular generally = Bad.
In closing, I think most people are rebeling against both Wow's philosophy and fan base.
Hee heh, your good points are well taken.
Actually, thinking about what you say here more, I agree with you to a certain extent. Let me go on to admit that, it is true, WoW's popularity DOES make me sick. It is no where *near* being the best MMORPG ever, yet the fact that it is the most successful to date DOES indeed irk me big time. I personally don't feel that I dislike the game because it is popular, I dislike the fact that it is popular even though it isn't that great of a game.
But popularity in itself can't really equate to bad. I don't like McDonald's much, but are the 2 billion+ people served that they claim all just retards who like to eat cheap crap because torturing themselves is fun...or do they really enjoy it? And if they enjoy it, it can't really be all THAT bad just because *I* don't like it, can it?
I don't think its a hate issue. I bought the game but it only took me a week to realized the game wasnt for me. I cancelled and walked away but I dont hate the game or want to bash it. Alot of people enjoy WOW, its their first MMORPG and its ok. Being a veteran (Early Ultima Online Player), I expect more nowadays. But it all honesty, I can't understand why its so popular. It doesnt really offer any new or that we havent seen already. As far as I'm concerned, MMOPRGS have taken a step back and at this time I only play Ultima Online (friends server pre-trammel). I did like SWG early on but nothing really interests me right now.
I don't have anything against blizzard, its a good company and they have made some nice quality products without screwing with the player base like SOE did with SWG. Maybe its not hate, just jealousy or like myself, just can't understand the hype
I think the broken relationship is always a factor too.
it's quite easy to hate a game you've fallen out with. It's like hating your Ex girlfriend, despite the fact that you obviously thought she was the greatest thing ever at one stage, when it's over it's over.
An MMO can be quite an emotional commitent, hating it when you leave is a good self defence mechanism.
Wow is also very hyped. So you could buy the gaming expecting a free trip to the moon, and find out all you got is just another fantasy MMO muchly similar to all the others.
Except he stated that he already loved WOW and thought it was great. Asking people why they do not like it usually is the opening of an attack on that person's reasons for not liking the game.
This was no innocent question, this was a rhetorical one. It was only meant to stir up the pot some, get folks arguing about WOW.
Dance, puppets. Dance.
get over yourself please.
WoW´s target were people who want to have a fun time, WoWs target were fans of the warcraft genré they never had a certain age as target. the reason ESRB´s rating is lower is because it has no extreme violence. WoW did that because they target ALL ages, not just adults. the ESRB rating is the minimum. WoW has a cartoony style, oh dear, it MUST be for kids now, Everquest 2 has a cartoony style, so it MUST be for kids, Lineage 2 has a cartoony/anime style, so it MUST be for kids. I'm sure some adults don't like the cartoony style, fine, I know a lot more that don't mind the cartoony style at all. it fits in the warcraft series.
also, could somebody finally explain to me why WoW is less challenging then other MMO's? I only noticed WoW's leveling goes a lot faster. but I never found any MMORPG a challenge. I always could play with my eyes closed if I wanted to.
the other points are obvious to anyone that's read even just parts of this one thread, well other than fanbois, they just ignore everything that isn't from god.
i'd like to address the challenge part.
death, xp penalties and item loss
say you're about to die in wow. don't care what from - pvp, pve, you just fell off a cliff. what are your thoughts? *crap i have to run all the way back to my body* if there's not someone there that can rez. or maybe it's *crap, i'll have to repair soon cuz my items are close to being red*.
now, compare just this one aspect of the game (which has a much larger effect on the game itself than you would first believe), to other games. in other games if you die, you might lose items permanently (looted by mobs or players), OR your items might suffer permanent damage, eventually to the point where they can't be repaired.
now if you compare that last statement to wow, and say wow has it - shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.
in wow, your sword gets to say 1/75 durability, take it to an npc, boom 75/75 durability. in other games, your sword gets down to 1/75 durability, you repair it VERY WELL, it's now at 70/70 durability, you repair it POORLY and it's now 60/60 durability. eventually you WILL have to replace this sword. not because you've just gotten some new uber sword to replace it, but because the thing is broken and completely unusable from this point forward 0/0 durability if it doesn't just fall apart and cease to exist.
so in other games, if you lose all your goodies, or lose parts of them, because you keep dying and dying and dying -- you get penalized -- you lose items.
also,in a number of games you will also incur some sort of xp debt/loss upon death. in wow, you have 'rested' xp, which the only way you lose it is well, you don't lose it, it just keeps getting used as you kill mobs until it's gone.
PVP.
now, consider that many games have pvp. you fight the enemy, you die, you lose some (or all) of your stuff, you rest and fight another day. some games allow you to take over towns/outposts and such and hold them for your side/faction/guild/whatever; thusly changing the landscape and environment of the game.
in wow, well you might find some moronic lvl 60 bored and out killing lvl 10s cuz it's cool and not boring. zomgwtfbbq whatever. that's it. nothing for you to take over. kaplan got tired of players raiding enemy cities so now when you attack the enemy guards multiply and get unbeatable bosses or whatever to help defend. great job there, jazzy jeff. same dude wonders why no one does outdoor pvp -- brilliant!
just the couple of things i've listed make games more challenging. you have to think, "is it really worth dying for?"
or take something like maybe eve for example. i believe some of the corps in eve number in the thousands and control big chunks of space (not big in overall size of the playing field, but big compared to chunks of space held by other corps). you have wars, where expensive ships are lost, expensive clones have to be paid for (in case you get podded), bases might be lost and consequently, you could lose parts of that big chunk of space your corp controls.
in wow, you can go do the same raid instance against the exact same bosses/dungeon layout as the other literal 75 times you've done it.
which do you consider to honestly be more of a challenge?
edited to correct typo.
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if Item loss is supposed to make the game harder, then I will remain my stance that there is NO mmorpg in the world that gives the player a challenge.
you're completely right i guess.
taking and holding land/cities/keeps/outposts is EXACTLY the same challenge as farming MC.
oh wait, you can FARM mc... but you can't farm taking over a city, or keeping a city. you fight, get the blood going, hope someone makes a mistake your side can capitalize on while also hoping your side doesn't make a mistake that will be taken advantage of...
oh, i'm sorry, MC is hard the first couple of times you attack a boss; then it becomes that much more farmable.
but taking over or defending a city is NEVER the same. different allies, different enemies, different strategies...
i see how you're totally right.
item/xp loss too~!! you're completely right there also. i'm starting to see why you chose "gameloading", cuz it's not fully loaded yet, is it?
so in wow, everyone runs around helter skelter cuz it DOESN'T matter if you die. who cares, you lost 3 minutes out of the hours you're playing~!! this promotes idiotic and suicidal playing, no thought required, no penalties incurred. why are you mad i died? nothing bad happened. oh we wiped and have to start the instance over? so? what else were you going to do for the next six hours other than this instance?
versus, losing a sword, having to get a craftsman to hook you up with a new one. versus mining and maybe a little hunting for other parts and making your own. versus even looting a few items from your fallen foes, so the NEXT time you die, you have a spare? oh wait, that requires thought, action, it's too hard. i understand, loading. it's still loading. give it time, a few more years maybe and it'll be fully loaded. doubt it, but hey, what do i know? i think that a dynamic, changing environment is much more challenging than a static, stale, farmable environment which is farmed by everyone and their mother who wants to spend a bazillion hours farming it.
take sign, sit down.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it
makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either
have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in
most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power.
this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if
you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you
will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your
character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same
thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it
makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either
have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in
most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power.
this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if
you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you
will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your
character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same
thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it
makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either
have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in
most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power.
this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if
you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you
will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your
character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same
thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
LMAO. swykac
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
get over yourself please.
aren't you the one that said:
From my experience, what you listed does NOT count as a challenge.it makes the game take longer yes, if you lose items, it means you either have to replace it with a better weapon, a weapon of equal power, or in most cases a weapon of lower power. If you buy a weapon of lower power. this means nothing more that you will do less damage (or take more,if you lost an armor piece which results in more downtime) which means you will kill mobs slower. it means it takes LONGER to advance your character, it does NOT make things harder in any way. pvp is the same thing.
if you're not ignorant and not a fanboy, then you must not have played pre-trammel anything and the extent of your gaming experience starts and ends at kaplan's zerg fest.
lets not pretend you know more about my experience in MMO's then you do, alright?
Not trying to start a war. But how can you play a game like Lineage 2 that is 100% about risk and reward and not have liked pre trammel UO, when trammel was released the risk was gone from UO, and Lineage 2 is a very risky game considering if you drop a peice of gear?
nicely stated, good point.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Exactly. Anyone who is happy playing WoW can go on ahead and keep playing WoW-k they probaly will-. Let them be ignorant. The reason so many people "greatly dislike" WoW is that there are so many MMO noobs -dam the mmo king has spoken all hail his eliteness- who are playing WoW as their first MMO, who have never played Ultima Online -almost 10 years old and 2d- or Shadowbane-a game on digital life support that will thankfully soon die- or Lineage- well if your talking about part 2 yeah its not bad once you get past the insane grind,botters,gankers but castle raids get old- or whatever, and they act as if they know all there is to know about MMOs-grind,group,raid,tradeskill,pvp whats hard to understand ?-. They think WoW is great simply because they are too stupid and ignorant to give any other games a try-or they just have fun playing the game-. The more they talk, the more they piss off real MMO gamers-and god only knows people like me that have playing since 99 without playing pvp much are not real mmo gamers,dam pvp nazis-, which leads to the understandably large community of "WoW haters".-just look back to what i said on the first page of this thread-
i personally hate WoW because last year i was bullyed by 9 people and they all played WoW , i personally have never played it and never will purely becuase off the reason i dont wont to like a single thing they like or be a single bit like them but hey this is just me tellin you why *I* hate WoW
Monkeytroll
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion , even if it is totally wrong." (Johny Depp)