I'm a little disgusted with MMORPG.com

DekkoCards · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom
MMORPG Privacy Policy (Relevant Parts):

MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties.
All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities.

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by
law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to
the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the
site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM
Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the
personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

Read the highlighted text. Apparently MMORPG believes it is necessary to disclose the information of members breaking the NDA of company's games that advertise on this site to said companies. The highlighted text right there pretty much means they can do whatever they wish with your information if they truly believe it is necessary.

Now, having said that, I dislike the way the Policy is worded because they can simply give your information out and just say "We felt it was necesarry." Read the fine print, I did and that's why the only information this site has on me is my Gmail address, which one can have changed real easily.

Valharan · June 2006

don't want to discuss this here, but:

a) Many NDAs are not binding, including the Vanguard one (where this all started) Link For Argument on this point.

b) MMORPG.COM is not required to release any information to anyone, if there is a legal reason for releasing the information then a court order can be sought and still no legal harm would come to MMORPG.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

a) Not to be rude but it doesn't matter if the NDA is binding or not.

b) They dont HAVE to have a legal reason or otherwise to release your personal information it states clearly that if they deem the action appropriate they will release it as per the privacy policy. By signing it you agree that at any time the deem it necessary to release your personal information to protect themselfs and thier property they will do so. They arn't required to release information to anyone without a court order but on the other hand they can release it to whom ever they like in what they percieve to be defense of thier property and reputation. Also the only promise they do make to you upon signing the privacy poilicy is that they won't sell your email/name/address/telephone number to solicitors or other companys that might cause you to get unwanted solicitations.

cumbom · June 2006

I want to say something here.

Throughout my posts on this site I have been civil to those who have been civil to me.

I do not belittle people when responding to their posts unless they began the namecalling/smartass/snide remarks.

I am a big believer in actual discourse. But I don't appreciate people propping up their arguments by insulting me.

Or insulting me in leu of an argument such as the articulate poster 3 posts above me.

I am open to discussing this issue with this community but i won't respond to anymore posts that contain in them insults, smart ass remarks, assumptions as to which games i play or how old i am (eg: WOW players like you could, never understand.).

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please refrain from posting.

Thank You.

DekkoCards · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom

I want to say something here.

Throughout my posts on this site I have been civil to those who have been civil to me.

I do not belittle people when responding to their posts unless they began the namecalling/smartass/snide remarks.

I am a big believer in actual discourse. But I don't appreciate people propping up their arguments by insulting me.

Or insulting me in leu of an argument such as the articulate poster 2 posts above me.

I am open to discussing this issue with this community but i won't respond to anymore posts that contain in them insults, smart ass remarks, assumptions as to which games i play or how old i am (eg: WOW players like you could, never understand.).

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please refrain from posting.

Thank You.

My post was not trying to instigate an argument with you. I feel we just look at the Policy in different ways. I for one feel they are not in the wrong with giving the information out since they believe the action is merited and necessary. The Policy even allows them to do this. I think we are just doomed to agree to disagree here.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

don't want to discuss this here, but:

a) Many NDAs are not binding, including the Vanguard one (where this all started) Link For Argument on this point.

b) MMORPG.COM is not required to release any information to anyone, if there is a legal reason for releasing the information then a court order can be sought and still no legal harm would come to MMORPG.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

a) Not to be rude but it doesn't matter if the NDA is binding or not.

This post you are quoting from wasn't directed at you, the poster it was directed at did say that NDAs were legally binding and that it did matter.

b) They dont HAVE to have a legal reason or otherwise to release your personal information it states clearly that if they deem the action appropriate they will release it as per the privacy policy. By signing it you agree that at any time the deem it necessary to release your personal information to protect themselfs and thier property they will do so. They arn't required to release information to anyone without a court order but on the other hand they can release it to whom ever they like in what they percieve to be defense of thier property and reputation. Also the only promise they do make to you upon signing the privacy poilicy is that they won't sell your email/name/address/telephone number to solicitors or other companys that might cause you to get unwanted solicitations.

Now the privacy policy does not state clearly that if they deem the action appropriate they will release it as per the privacy policy.

The Privacy Policy says:

MMORPG.COM never sells or shares any of your personal information with other parties.
All information is strictly for internal use and all e-mails are only sent from our facilities.

Let me be clear the underline on the word never is in the privacy policy. I did not add it.

The policy goes on to say:

MMORPG.COM may access and/or disclose your personal information if required to do so by
law or in the good faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to
the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on our company or the
site; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of our company, including the MMORPG.COM
Web site; or (c) act under exigent circumstances to protect the
personal safety of users of MMORPG.COM, its web sites, or the public.

As I have said before I disagree that section B appllies to this since breaking an NDA with another company does not threaten the rights of MMORPG.COM or the property of MMORPG.com

You may argue that it does. But if someone breaks the NDA, MMORPG.com releases their information to the gaming company and that person gets their account banned with whatever MMO they were playing, but continues to post information about the beta, how does that protect MMORPG?

Either way I don't buy that argument. But if MMORPG.com wants to make that argument I think they should make it a hell of alot more clear in their Privacy Policy.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Instigatoi2

Originally posted by cumbom

I want to say something here.

Throughout my posts on this site I have been civil to those who have been civil to me.

I do not belittle people when responding to their posts unless they began the namecalling/smartass/snide remarks.

I am a big believer in actual discourse. But I don't appreciate people propping up their arguments by insulting me.

Or insulting me in leu of an argument such as the articulate poster 2 posts above me.

I am open to discussing this issue with this community but i won't respond to anymore posts that contain in them insults, smart ass remarks, assumptions as to which games i play or how old i am (eg: WOW players like you could, never understand.).

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please refrain from posting.

Thank You.

My post was not trying to instigate an argument with you. I feel we just look at the Policy in different ways. I for one feel they are not in the wrong with giving the information out since they believe the action is merited and necessary. The Policy even allows them to do this. I think we are just doomed to agree to disagree here.

Pardon me I wasn't refferring to you, I was reffering to the poster above you. Apologies.

cumbom · June 2006

Hopefully this gets in before the lock....

This thread is not here for trolling, I am genuinely concerned, not because I break NDAs but I think it is important for companys to handle peoples private information as extremely important.

voodookhan · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

a) Not to be rude but it doesn't matter if the NDA is binding or not.

Exactly what I said in my post too. This is correct. And cumbom, wording does matter in an NDA. The wording dictates whether an NDA is one-way (i.e., unilateral) or mutual. Both of which have implications on whether or not a violation of that NDA will hold up in the court of law.

b) They dont HAVE to have a legal reason or otherwise to release your personal information it states clearly that if they deem the action appropriate they will release it as per the privacy policy. By signing it you agree that at any time the deem it necessary to release your personal information to protect themselfs and thier property they will do so. They arn't required to release information to anyone without a court order but on the other hand they can release it to whom ever they like in what they percieve to be defense of thier property and reputation. Also the only promise they do make to you upon signing the privacy poilicy is that they won't sell your email/name/address/telephone number to solicitors or other companys that might cause you to get unwanted solicitations.
Again correct. Now I'm getting out of this thread. Cumbom, if you honestly believe that MMORPG.com is violating your legal rights (or the rights of others), then take serious action (leave the site, report them and their activities, etc.). If not, then this is all pissing in the wind.

cumbom · June 2006

All I have so far that MMORPG.com is even willing to share information is what Enigma said in the Vanguard Forums.

I am hoping that it was an Empty threat not directy sanctioned by this site as a whole.

Admin · June 2006

Hello All,

I want to clear some things up.

1) Enigma's words were not 100% accurate. We have never given information out on NDA violators and would not unless handed a court order from a US-based court system.

2) HOWEVER, if a game company contacts us and shows us NDA violations on our site we will BAN YOUR ACCOUNT if they can provide enough evidence to prove to us that you did this. Your account at MMORPG.com can be revoked at our sole discretion - and we despise those who violate NDA agreements and surely don't want them around here.

3) We have been asked for personal information from developers on MANY occasions and they always get the same response from us "per our Privacy Policy we cannot release any information you cannot obtain through the public side of our site."

4) Violating an NDA or EULA is not a violation of any laws - it is a breach of private contract (enforced by civil courts) - therefore we would not report anything to law agencies unless they request it.

So to conclude - we will NOT be forwarding any information to Vanguard (Sigil Games). We will however ban your account/IP if we even think you are posting in violation of an NDA.

I hope this helps to clear things up.

Valharan · June 2006

Actually it did. We were all wrong, HURRAY Mods! I have guilt.

9/10 MMORPG.com posters agree I'm dumb.

Valharan · June 2006

Actually it did. We were all wrong, HURRAY Mods! I have guilt.

9/10 MMORPG.com posters agree I'm dumb.

cumbom · June 2006

Thank you very much for clearing that up. I am glad to hear that, I enjoy this site very much, but I hold my privacy and trust in high regard, and I am glad to say MMORPG.com has certainly with your post earned my trust.

Now one last thing. (Not directed at the Admin)

I told you so.

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

Actually it did. We were all wrong, HURRAY Mods! I have guilt.
9/10 MMORPG.com posters agree I'm dumb.

Come tell me who is dense /tickle

Valharan · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom
Thank you very much for clearing that up. I am glad to hear that, I enjoy this site very much, but I hold my privacy and trust in high regard, and I am glad to say MMORPG.com has certainly with your post earned my trust.

Now one last thing. (Not directed at the Admin)

I told you so.

Gotta admit I owe you an opps my bad, very sorry, look a pink elephant(runs away).

Arremus · June 2006

Originally posted by cumbom
Thank you very much for clearing that up. I am glad to hear that, I enjoy this site very much, but I hold my privacy and trust in high regard, and I am glad to say MMORPG.com has certainly with your post earned my trust.

Now one last thing. (Not directed at the Admin)

I told you so.

You really don't get out much do you?

Just as an outsider's observation for you to consider;
When you find yourself posting three or four posts in a row on a thread you started, arguing with anyone who has a differing opinion than you, then following up with "I told you so" when the official answer was not premeditated by your ranting, this means you are not going to get laid in the next 6 months.

Seriously, get a fucking life. I feel embarressed for you after reading this thread.

Cymdai · June 2006

Seriously, I feel very sad for you cumbom.

You haven't got anything to do, other than to worry about what would happen IF you were doing something wrong, which you AREN'T, but JUST IN CASE YOU WERE, you needed to be clear on what was going to happen to you¿

I mean, my god, you're all talk and no walk man. I almost hoped that the MMORPG staff had backed Enigma on this one. I love the people who make the idle threats about filing lawsuits against companies. You're probably the same as the guy who thinks he can sue SOE for making SWG a sub-par game.

Grow up, get a life, there's not one person in the world who's so significant that, if they stopped browsing a website, that it would shut down. You're certainly no exception.

Again, I'd be slightly more sympathetic towards your concerns if you were even beta testing for the game, but the fact you were whining about something that didn't even concern you, well, just goes to show someone should really be stepping out of their mom's basement a bit more often.

cumbom · June 2006

To Quote Me:

"This thread is not here for trolling, I am genuinely concerned, not
because I break NDAs but I think it is important for companys to handle
peoples private information as extremely important."

and:

"I want to say something here.

Throughout my posts on this site I have been civil to those who have been civil to me.

I do not belittle people when responding to their posts unless they began the namecalling/smartass/snide remarks.

I am a big believer in actual discourse. But I don't appreciate people propping up their arguments by insulting me.

Or insulting me in leu of an argument such as the articulate posters above me.

I
am open to discussing this issue with this community but i won't
respond to anymore posts that contain in them insults, smart ass
remarks, assumptions as to which games i play or how old i am (eg: WOW
players like you could, never understand.).

If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please refrain from posting.

Thank You."

cumbom · June 2006

Originally posted by Valharan

Originally posted by cumbom
Thank you very much for clearing that up. I am glad to hear that, I enjoy this site very much, but I hold my privacy and trust in high regard, and I am glad to say MMORPG.com has certainly with your post earned my trust.

Now one last thing. (Not directed at the Admin)

I told you so.

Gotta admit I owe you an opps my bad, very sorry, look a pink elephant(runs away).

I love pink elephants

Salvatoris · June 2006

Originally posted by Admin

Hello All,
I want to clear some things up.
1) Enigma's words were not 100% accurate. We have never given information out on NDA violators and would not unless handed a court order from a US-based court system.
2) HOWEVER, if a game company contacts us and shows us NDA violations on our site we will BAN YOUR ACCOUNT if they can provide enough evidence to prove to us that you did this. Your account at MMORPG.com can be revoked at our sole discretion - and we despise those who violate NDA agreements and surely don't want them around here.
3) We have been asked for personal information from developers on MANY occasions and they always get the same response from us "per our Privacy Policy we cannot release any information you cannot obtain through the public side of our site."
4) Violating an NDA or EULA is not a violation of any laws - it is a breach of private contract (enforced by civil courts) - therefore we would not report anything to law agencies unless they request it.
So to conclude - we will NOT be forwarding any information to Vanguard (Sigil Games). We will however ban your account/IP if we even think you are posting in violation of an NDA.
I hope this helps to clear things up.

The part of his quote that I was most concerned about was where he said your account could be banned if you even mention that you are in the beta. If all you say is that you are testing a game, and don't go any further with it, isn't that pretty harmless?

cumbom · June 2006

Some NDAs are very strict and require people not to even disclose they are in Beta, I assume that Sigils is like that and thats why Enigma posted that.

Cymdai · June 2006

Hey, I chose not to be constructive because you chose not to think before you acted.

It's not hard to use a PM. You chose to try and get attention for yourself, by posting it publicly on the forums.

Besides, I think the fact you made the same topic twice, and even had it locked because even the staff themselves apparently presumed you were trolling, well, that seems to speak loud and clear for me.

Next time, think of ways to be more 'constructive' without trying to be an attention whore

cumbom · June 2006

Please stop!

The attention you are giving me is overwhelming!

Can I move in with u? Please?

God forbid I discuss on a Discussion Board in the Discussion Menu under General Discussion.

robbykl1415 · June 2006

If that is not the case I will likely be deleting my account here and moving on...

I don't play SOE games because they lied to me, and I won't support this site if the same is true here.

Thank You,

Marc Cumbo

Is that a threat or a promise?

cumbom · June 2006

Did you read the entire thread?

No?

Well then you would have found out that the Admin posted and assured us that our information would not be shared without a court order.

Thank you for your oh so insiteful post.

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